Finally!!!

MOST HELPFUL POSTS

Ez - posted on 07/10/2011

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Yalana, from your posts it sounds like everyone in your life reacts with physical aggression when something happens that they don't like. Your friends. Your parents. Your ex's family. You ARE a product of that abusive environment. You just can't see it because you're still there.

You say your son hasn't retaliated when you smack him in the face. Just wait. Try laying into him when he's a testosterone-filled 14yo and see where that gets you. And quite frankly, he will be well within his rights to defend himself. Just like I would be if some random stranger whacked me in the mouth. I hope, for your sake and the sake of your children, that it doesn't come to that. But I have my doubts, because you seem to genuinely think that raising children with that sort of violence is ok.

Amber - posted on 07/09/2011

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Teaching children to behave in public is a good idea.

Assuming that the majority of children are ill behaved and their parents are spineless is idiotic.

Just like everything else. You NOTICE the bad. You remember the bad. Rarely do you notice that a small child is on your plane, in your restaurant, etc when they are behaving. That's because they aren't drawing attention to themselves! You are only drawn to the bad behavior because it's noisy and attention grabbing.

Just because that's what you notice, doesn't mean that it is what the majority of the population is up to.

Amie - posted on 07/10/2011

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So you're basing your dysfunctional relationship with your ex, which is spilling over into how you parent... then using all of that as a way to justify you abusing your children? You're using that as a way to justify that ALL parents should abuse their children?



That's complete and utter bull.



I have no words to how warped your views have become. It does not help that you have family that are also advocates of abuse. Not spanking (which I outlined previously as to what a spanking is) but abuse. I'm sorry but you are wrong.



I've never said that before but you are completely and utterly wrong. You should not be handing out parenting advise to parents in "normal" parenting situations. Yours is not "normal", it probably never will be until your ex and family decide to pull their heads out.

Tiffany - posted on 07/12/2011

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The authoratarian parent who dictates everything and doesn't hear their child's voice has just as poor outcomes as the permissive parent that lets their child have too much freedom and make adult choices too early. The permissive parent has teens that have difficulty making good choices where the controlling parent has teens that are rebellous (higher rates of drug abuse, have sex earlier with more partners, lower grades, etc). The key is balance. Give your child a voice. Validate them as people and individuals. Show compassion and grace and extreme love, but WITH BOUNDARIES. Let them make developmentally appropriate choices. Model what you want to see from them. Do you want them using physcial force to get what they want from others? Isn't that what you are really teaching when using physcial punishments as discipline? Reasearch shows corporal punishment is ineffective as a means of behavior modification outside the eye of the person whom does the spanking.



As far as spare the rod, spoil the child comment what the bible says is: Whoever spares the rod hates their children, but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them. (Proverbs 13:23-25 NIV) However, the "rod" here is the shepherds staff, which he uses to guide his sheep NOT beat them. The goal of discipline for me is to teach my children socially appropriate behavior, respect for others and self, and for them to master self-control and self-discipline. They need guidance and rules, but they also need examples of love, grace and compassion. It was the disciples who wanted to send the children away when it was Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.” Matthew 19:13-15 Jesus didn't keep them away from him nor would he keep children out of his skies.

Karla - posted on 07/11/2011

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Wow, this thread is interesting.
Concerning the article, I didn’t find it inappropriate, he’s an op-ed writer and he had something to say, and I think he’s right. The thing is there is a difference between punishment, discipline, and apathy. Apathy is what he was talking about, and that is no way to raise a child. Punishment is a consequence that generally hurts and if not properly used, removes responsibility for the infraction from the child & can crush their spirit. Discipline is a method of guidance and training that can, but doesn’t necessarily include punishment.

Discipline can be subtle and hard to figure out if it has not been modeled for you. I think it helps to remember that discipline is related to disciple, and your child is your disciple – someone to follow your teachings and learn from your wisdom.

@ Yolanda, I notice in your posts you often say – that works with your child, but it won’t work with mine – and then you go on to defend your methods as though you want someone to agree with you. I want to point out, that your methods wouldn’t work with others’ children, and might actually deflate their spirit. My point is, as much as you believe other’s methods won’t work with your family, that’s how much your methods won’t work in their family.

ADHD is a real problem and can affect people into adulthood. I would also say a child’s personality is developing, and unknown factors attribute to their behavior. There may be problems such as ADHD, early stages of mental illness, etc.

I saw a study that said 25% of children are high-need, and of my four children that is exactly what I have – 1 high need, and 3 easy going. It makes a difference with parenting. I worked very hard to offer discipline to my high need kid, and today at 26, she says she wouldn’t have survived with another parent – meaning she wouldn’t have survived with a demanding, heavy handed parent.

Use caution; they are young people, young individuals, and they are your disciple.

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Jenni - posted on 08/23/2011

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Well this is a bit of an old debate, so I'm not completely fresh on it (and not about to reread the 200 posts). But from what I remember about the general feel of the debate is that some posters took issue with the suggestion to spank (always a hot topic on here).
Some posters were suggesting that it's natural or developmentally normal for toddlers to tantrum. And I think in most cases removing the toddler until they are calm is common curtesy in public (although in cases of airplanes not always possible).

I'm not sure I recall any poster saying it's ok to subject others to their child's bad behaviour. Some posters just took issue with the fact that he recommends spanking.

Michelle - posted on 08/23/2011

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Jennifer, I don't think a lot of these people even READ the article, to tell you the truth. One of the first posts, I think Katie CP, said she didn't even think he has kids, when he says yes, he does. And yes, I was speaking in generalizations. Being upset at someone who resents parents and calls them to task for letting their children act like hellions and expecting others to just 'suck it up' is most certainly approving of that behavior. Ever hear 'silence implies consent'? Same principle. By criticizing/personally attacking the author they are defending the target.

Jenni - posted on 08/23/2011

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Michelle, I don't think *anyone* in this thread believes it's ok to allow your children to run around like wild animals in public. That is certainly something we are all in agreement on. They were arguing other aspects of the article.

Michelle - posted on 08/23/2011

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I guess the truth hurts a lot of ya'll. Yes, I have a kid. No, she doesn't treat the entire world as her playroom, me as her personal servant, or the entire human race as her audience. I raised her better than that. She had her moments, like any kid...I reined her in, or removed her from the scene. That's how I was raised...consideration for others. My daughter may be the center of MY world..but she's not the center of EVERYONE elses. And that's okay.
Too bad most people can't see that.

Ixchel - posted on 08/22/2011

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I liked the article and I think that all the parents on here who are complaining are probably the ones who allow their kids to ruin my 100.00 dollor meals and irritate my kids when they are trying to eat their 25.00 plate of Lobster that they worked hard doing their school work for all week. i agree with what he says i love my kids and I think they are great but I can't stand a lot of other people's kids and I am sure they probably don't like mine. I hate the screaming 4 year old throuwing a tantrum and the parents who set there FOREVER! like he is not there. While my family and I are trying to have a nice meal. My world revolves around my kids but I don't expect everyone else to feel that way. Cudos to the author. If you want to let your kid run wild go to Chuckie Cheese!

Nicole - posted on 08/16/2011

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lets see..i had to take my daughter to walmart wiht me today. she didnt get a nap cause of the busy day we had ands wanted to throw a fit in the middle of the store cause she didnt ewnat to hol my hand to walk....i told her "oh no you dont!" picked her up and marched off to where we had to be to get our cheese. got in line and she didnt want to sit in the basket while dad watchedher. she wanted to start up screaming once again i scooped her up told him give me the keys shes leaving..

i will sit in the bathroom till my kid stops her fits at a resturant cause i wont have her disrupt others. and i will even ask for a box and leave if i have to before we are even done. its not corporal punishment its that i will not let my child embarrase me cause i dont let her get away wiht tantrums. i will not have other parents look at me weird that i must not punish my child...and i am not full of empty promises like 99% of other parents out there

if i tell her one more time and we are leaving. oh you bet your bum we are gone she does it again. i dont care. its about maintaining a consistancy of consequences to follow their actions. your going to act like a brat in public the consequence is your going home. and dont expect home to be a treat either.

acted up in the book store when i took one of two books away cause i was not buying both....she didnt stop after two warnings so we left and she didnt get any book. period why should i reward you when you were being bad? im the mom that if im shoping and the kid acts up i will leave my cart and go home. then the kid has nothing. and thats how it should be. you may think its inconvient but what are you goign to do bribe your kid to be good in the store??thats exactly what they want for you to buy them things cause they are a brat and no they can use you and that you wont say no if you get flustered enough. even when you get razzled you need to remain consistant. no giving in cause then they know what buttons to push to get you to cave. kids are smarter then we give them credit for.

as a child i knew if my sister took somethign from me and lied to my mom about not haivng it i could cry and scream at the top of my lungs till my dad got involved barked at my mom for not searching my sister and her room and get my item back and then we were all in trouble but i didnt care cause i would have my doll or what ever she took back. i could promise and beg till i was blue and my mom then wouldnt make me clean my room before going to a friends house. there were caving points . i used them all. even as a teen. dont be had by your children.lol cause i wont forget and my daughter will be surprised when the trick wont work on me....cause like i tell her now ..."momma don't play that game so knock it off ".

Becky - posted on 08/14/2011

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I'll admit I've used bribing with my daughter when she was little to keep her behaved in the store, never spanking - not all the time, but sometimes if she was especially good I would buy her a treat when we were leaving the store. It worked very well for me. Then again, if used incorrectly it doesn't work. a few months ago walking around the store I saw a mom pulling along a little girl who was just crying for her mom to buy her some toy. I passed by this woman several times during our visit & her little girl never stopped crying - when they hit the check out, she finally told the girl that if she would stop crying, Mom would get her some candy . . . really? you want to reward her for spending the last 20 minutes crying & tossing a fit?



I'm not going to say my daughter never threw a fit in a store . . . it's happened, but once she started in I would tell her there would be no treats for her because I do not reward bad behavior. If she wants a treat, she can work on earning it with her behavior on our next visit to the store. I also didn't get her treat every time she behaved, sometimes I would just tell her how much I appreciated her being so good for me. She would smile with pride because Mom was proud of her. The best part was when she would point out someone else's misbehaving child & then she would tell me that the child was behaving inappropriately in the store!



I agree that when I see children acting out in public it can be rather annoying, but kids will be kids. What really bother me is when kids act out in public & the parents do nothing to try & get control of their kids. Parents are the first authority figures children learn. They need to learn to respect & listen to parents before they can or will learn to listen to & respect any other authority figure they will encounter in life.



I have marched my child out of restaurants, fairs, grocery stores, etc for behaving badly. The act of leaving in the middle of something always worked for me too. If she was able to regain her composure, we would resume our activities, if not, we would go home; either way there would be no rewards even if she turned magically into an Angel for the rest of the day.

Nikki - posted on 08/12/2011

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There is a huge difference between a spanking and a beating. I have spanked my kids only a handful of times and they still know how to act in public. I know women with kids that hit and talk back all the time and nothing is ever done to prevent it. When those kids grow up and have a relationship chances are that is how they are going to treat their significant other. That is not ok with me. I was in an abusive relationship and if either of my boys ever lays a hand on a woman I will personally beat them. I don't agree with completely banning children from public places because not all kids act like fools. However I would not hesitate to ask a family to leave if their kids are being obnoxious. If that makes me a bad person then so be it. People need to teach their children how to behave.

Jennifer - posted on 07/28/2011

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I agree, to a point. I have 6 kids, and I HATE going to a nice place to eat and having a screaming kid ruin it, and the kid shouldn't be in there in the first place, but since when is a grocery store an 'adult place'? I get complimented all the time on how well my children behave (receptionist at doctors offices have asked if I'd do a parenting class) but my kids have had their moments, too. I have problems with the same things he does, but he sounds like an arrogent jerk. Give someone the benefit of the doubt. BTW, if he never had a meltdown with his angels in a public place, he should be a more involved parent!

Holli - posted on 07/22/2011

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wow, i thought this was a bit harsh. of course children need to be disciplined, of course its not ok for them to act out in public. but they are people too, and everyone has that occasional bad day. my little cousin is seven, very polite and respectful, i have never seen her throw a tantrum, until one day she came home from school in a bad mood after another kid had called her a name, and later at a resturaunt threw a HUGE screaming tantrum. It was a one time thing, she just needed to express how grouchy she was, so dont assume because you saw one moment in a child's life that you know they have bad parents, everyobe loses their temper at some time, and I'm sure the people who witness it assume your an ahole too..

Jane - posted on 07/21/2011

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"But it's a safe, contained place,"

On the contrary, malls are a hunting ground for all sorts of folks you don't want to have any contact with your kids. They are no safer than any other public area, except that in a typical mall kids won't risk being run over by a car. I never let my kids run ahead in a mall, just as I won't let them do it on a sidewalk or at a strip mall shopping center.

Vegemite - posted on 07/20/2011

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At the shops today there was a Mother with 4 kids, two in a double stroller, 1 about 12/13 and 1 about 6. All of them were behaving like they were on a day leave from the local asylum and Mum was at breaking point. The thing was they had a large family size bag of lollies they were eating by the handful and a 15cm stick of hard candy each they were sucking on. I wanted to scream at the Mum, how do you expect your kids to behave when lunch might as well be a bowl full of sugar. Garrrr! I've never been so frustrated with a complete stranger before.

Jenni - posted on 07/20/2011

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Ella, from what you said it sounds like you feel sorry for their parents for having such 'shit' kids. But then you also say the parents don't discipline and laugh at their children's negative behaviours.

Since when is it the kids' fault for having parents that don't teach them right from wrong?
Children are not born knowing what is appropriate behaviour and what isn't. They learn that from their parents. By their parents modelling the behaviours themselves and disciplining (or 'teaching' them correct behaviours) them.

So if their parents are laughing at their negative behaviours the parents are teaching their children that those *are* appropriate behaviours. By not giving them consequences for negative behaviours, they are condoning those behaviours.

If they were my friends I certainly wouldn't feel sorry for them for having 'shit' kids. I'd feel sorry for the kids for having 'shit' parents. They're clearly not doing their jobs as parents and their children are merely reflecting that with their negative behaviours.

Ella - posted on 07/19/2011

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Because I like them? I mean I'm not going to stop being friends with someone because I hate thier children

Stifler's - posted on 07/19/2011

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Some people's kids annoy me. But it's more their parenting styles annoy me really.

[deleted account]

Why the hell would you be friends w/ people who's kids you hate? That's not fair to anyone......

And I don't care how rotten a kid is.... I could never actually hate a child. Their behavior, sure, but the child? Sad. :(

Vegemite - posted on 07/19/2011

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Um you don't need to get physical to help a situation. I've grabbed a kid running off from their mum before and got down to him and a quiet word in his ear about how he shouldn't run off. Mum was very great full when she caught up. Turns he saw something, ripped his hand out of hers and took off but it did look like he was just running a muck in the shops. She walked off with a well behaved child.

[deleted account]

Like I said way back on page 1 or 2, this article isn't about helping people become better parents, but about selling self-justification to people with antipathy towards kids.



And lo and behold, here we have someone trying to justify ramming a kid with a pram.



Yeah, you show that kid you mean business. You don't put up with that kind of crap -- not like his lazy mother, right?

Amie - posted on 07/19/2011

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I agree with Jodi. There is a huge difference between telling a kid to behave and actually physically hurting them.

Amie - posted on 07/19/2011

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I agree with Jodi. There is a huge difference between telling a kid to behave and actually physically hurting them.

Jodi - posted on 07/18/2011

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Ella, there is a difference between pulling a child into line and ramming them with a pram to deliberately hurt them.

Ella - posted on 07/18/2011

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I agree with Sarah...sorry but myself and my partner get frustrated when kids are messing about because parents don't want to discipline or hold onto them. I tell my husband don't stop for them bugger them they shoulnd't be mucking around. You let kids get away with things they turn into brats. We have very good friends, who we see a lot they choose not to discipline their kids who are now 4 and 6, I hate those boys I have always hated those boys because they lack discipline, so hubby will take the initiative to tell them off, he asked them not to blow thier flutes right near him the other day the continued he threw it off the fence kids proceeded to carry on "oh why did you do that for?" hubby said I told you not to do it , so its gone now too bad. They will throw food on him while we are having dinner things like that and parents just find it funny. SO some kids really do need to be pulled into line whether it has to be by someone else or not. Our friends suffer because their kids are such little shits because after they bitched about what piece of cake I gave them at a party once and threw it on the floor they "didnt want that one" I got asked to give him another one, then later they are dipping thier fingers in the cake parents do nothing so I do not invite them to anythign anymore and thats sad because these peple are my friends, and no one will look after thier shit head kids not even grand parents

Melissa - posted on 07/18/2011

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I agree with Cyndel completely. We use spanking in my house as a last resort (I was raised that way, hubby was raised that way, neither of us were negatively effected by it. Rather we've grown to be well rounded, respectful, successful, kind adults. And no, neither of us were angry children or acted up more than any other child "by the age of 5" like all the psychologists and therapists love to say is sure to happen). Everyone has their own methods of parenting. What's important is whether or not it works, and whether or not your child is happy. Assuming a spanked child is an unhappy child is complete ignorance. My son gets spanked and he is extremely happy, bright, active and social. It's no ones right to make any sort of blind assumption on a persons parenting techniques without knowing the person, child and situation first hand, because it makes you an ignorant fool. One action having one effect on one person does not indicate the same will happen to another. Actually, as far as statistics show, the feelings on spanking are split almost right down the middle in America. Some use it, some don't, to each their own, really. But like I said, you can only defend your parenting if your methods are working. If you utilize spanking and your child goes about as if it has no boundaries, then your methods and techniques are not working. The same goes with any option out there.

Christina - posted on 07/18/2011

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As a parent of five children, two of them with autism, I can tell you it is not hard to have your children behave in public. Yes, when my auties were toddlers, it was impossible to get them to behave, but that was because they lived in their own little bubble. Now that they are 8yrs and 5yrs old, they know how to walk quietly beside the shopping cart.
When my two youngest boys try playing Halo in a store and start shooting eachother and throwing themselves on the floor after they are wounded, I grab them and march out of the store.
It is not okay to let your kid be a snot nosed brat!!! I don't care what kind of discipline you use, if your discipline is not effective, then ditch it and try something else. If your child isn't even respectful enough to listen to mom or dad when they say, "Knock it off," then you are in a heap of trouble! If your kid won't listen as a child, you better be ready for hell from them when they become a teenager!

Jenni - posted on 07/18/2011

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Cyndel, there are a million and one other methods/solutions I would practice before arriving at spanking my child. I don't believe anyone deserves to have violence used against them as a punishment, not even the most difficult child. So I'm going to give your suggestion a big.... pass.



Besides I believe that more 'defiant' or difficult children would be detrimentalized by being hit. It would only perpetuate their behaviours and ultimately become ineffective.

I believe the only time spanking DOES work (if it's goal is to get a child to obey the parent without question) is with subserviant children. Which to me makes it completely unnecessary because those children would respond just as easily to gentle discipline.



If my children were to act out in public. They would be and have been removed. Problem solved for *everyone*. They've learned very quickly that bad behaviour means they don't get to stay at that public place. Along with teaching them manners through repeatition, role playing and modelling the behaviours.



I also don't believe that spanking is a 'last resort'. That implies you've tried everything else and nothing else has worked so you settled on spanking. I don't believe you (general you, parents who spank) have tried *everything*. (I don't believe I've tried every disciplinary solution either or anyone else has for that matter). Maybe you've (we've) tried everything that *you know* but that doesn't mean through research and critical thinking you couldn't arrive at another effective solution.



Some people assume the only other disciplinary measure to spankings is timeouts/priviledges taken away but there is so much to positive discipline than that. THOSE are *our* last resort.

Amie - posted on 07/18/2011

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I actually find it to be an oxymoron that someone would pose that "we" may be hurting our children, when "they" are in fact hurting their children by hitting them.

Amie - posted on 07/18/2011

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"Corpral punishment should be a last resort...but dismissing it completely and allowing the child to continue in their defiance and rebellion if other methods are proving ineffective is hurting the child and his/her future more then the rare spanking ever would"

Wrong. Other methods do work, they just take time and a ton of patience. Something many parents, going by polls that say the majority of parents still spank, do not possess.

If a parent wants to spank, fine. I'll keep my judgments in my head ('cept in places like this - it is a debate). However, I do know other ways work and even with difficult children they work. If a parent wants to hit their child, fine. Just don't try to justify it by telling those who use other methods successfully that we are doing something that is ineffective and that we are hurting out children in the process. We aren't.

There are crap parents on both sides of this too. I realize that. I know there are lazy parents who don't try to do anything, just as I realize there are really bad parents who turn from spanking to abuse.

Becky - posted on 07/18/2011

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Aaaack, to Sarah's post! My kids like to run ahead of me in the mall when we're shopping. I let them. It doesn't mean I'm not paying attention! I am fully aware of where they are and what they are doing! But it's a safe, contained place, so as long as it's not super busy, like around Christmas, I let them go. If they ran into someone's stroller because they weren't watching where they were going, I would chide them for not watching. But if someone ran into them, you'd better believe I'd be pissed! Bottom line, they are kids, you are the adult. Act like one!

Cyndel - posted on 07/17/2011

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Oh and he does have kids...Please read the whole thing before jumping to conclusions. That was something my dad drilled into me...don't make assumptions...know your facts.
Corpral punishment should be a last resort...but dismissing it completely and allowing the child to continue in their defiance and rebellion if other methods are proving ineffective is hurting the child and his/her future more then the rare spanking ever would...if done not with anger but with calculation and an explanation to the child of the wrong they committed and the reason behind the spanking.

Melissa - posted on 07/17/2011

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I copied this from a friend of mine and posted it on facebook a while ago. I thought it was hilarious and spot on. While I do think the majority of society needs to be more understanding of mothers and children, I'm really sick of said mothers and children thinking they're entitled to acting like fools without consequences. Even as a mother I'm thankful for children-free places to gather with friends where I can have an adult conversation without being bothered by someones inability to control their children.

Amie - posted on 07/16/2011

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This isn't fun. It never used to happen to me, just the lot of you. =P I don't like being affected! They need to stop messing with things.

Amie - posted on 07/16/2011

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Whoa!! CoM's is being dumb for me again! After I posted a whole bunch of new posts showed up!

Amie - posted on 07/16/2011

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@Karla, ty. I read it again and I think you might be right.



Either way, we're never going to know now. An hour later and she's shut down her profile. I don't think she liked the backlash.

Karla - posted on 07/16/2011

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Jodi,
Then double Wow!
Wow for her cruelness, and wow for post-n-run method.

Jodi - posted on 07/16/2011

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No, Sarah has been around this community for a bit. I've seen her here before.

Karla - posted on 07/16/2011

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I think some people stumble onto this from the home page and don't realize it's a Debating group! I would say poor Sarah, but I can't feel bad for her right now. She was admittedly cruel.

Jodi - posted on 07/16/2011

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It's pointless. She took her ball and went home. Honestly, if you can't stand the heat.....this isn't the community for you :\

[deleted account]

Ummmm, WOW! Sarah, that's awesome. Bet you're regretting saying anything at all?!



"Amie if the mother was paying attention i wouldn't of ran into him very hard......"



Or, maybe because you saw him ahead of time and were just irritated with his mother, YOU COULD HAVE AVOIDED HITTING HIM WITH YOUR BUGGY!? Instead you CHOSE to hit him to prove your point?!! Maybe? I dunno.....*shrugs*

Karla - posted on 07/16/2011

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@ Sarah, you say “i saw a kid do this i *accidentally* ran into him with a pram it hurt him he screamed”



There is no reason to say *accidently* if it were truly an accident. The ** indicate it wasn’t really an accident.



Plan and simple, that is equal to bullying.

Karla - posted on 07/16/2011

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@Amie - I think Sarah means the mother yelled and screamed at her, not that the child yelled an screamed.

[deleted account]

OK.... I admit that I haven't read this post before now and I just skipped to the last page, but Sarah reminds me of the old creep that almost ran into my daughter w/ his shopping cart in Costco and then cussed HER out. I fully admit that my kid was distracted, but that's cuz her sister had gone missing and she was distraught looking for her.

Oh... and when you put accident in QUOTES.... it's obvious to everyone w/ eyes that you did it on purpose. That makes you WORSE than the kid cuz.... that's a KID! What's your excuse? And you feel NO remorse for hitting a kid?! Sheesh.... when I see kids running around... my first thought isn't that the parents should keep them under control. My FIRST thought is that I hope I don't accidently run into them cuz I sure wouldn't want to hurt a kid. :(

Amie - posted on 07/16/2011

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I'd say under the circumstances, the kid had every right to yell and scream. He was hit with a pram!

Amie - posted on 07/16/2011

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OH good grief. It just keeps getting worse.

You were paying attention and yet you still ran into the child. You are now back tracking and saying it wasn't on purpose. I happen to think your first version is correct and are only saying differently because someone said something about it. You were obviously paying attention, you saw the child.

If you took your "gave a damn pill" you would have slowed down or altered your course so you wouldn't hurt a child. Wow...

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