Government assistance

Crystal - posted on 07/30/2009 ( 32 moms have responded )

273

19

22

The following was on one of my FB friends' walls:

(My friend is Matt, [I'll withhold last names] and I've never met the other guy. They live in CA, I live in SD.)

Matt voted 'Yes' in the poll! Hell ya! i have to drug test in order to work, so why shouldn't the slimeballs that take my tax dollars have to as well?

Matt voted in the Drug testing for your Welfare Check/Food stamps Poll



Crystal Whitney: the slimeballs that take your tax dollars... wow! Oh Matthew!



Arsenio: if she thinks slimeballs is a bad term, she obviously hasn't seen my choice words... lol



Matt: she obviously has never been to a county hospital and met the slimeballs! haha



Arsenio: or me... lol



Crystal Whitney: Um, actually my one year old baby recieves government assistance... I guess she's a "slimeball" or worse? Shame on you!! Wow, I don't get on FB for a day and look what ppl are saying!



Arsenio: allow me to elaborate. and in no way am i backpedalling on any of my statements. people receiving public assistance can be stratified into 2 major categories: 1) those who actually need public assistance and are using it as a means to get back on their feet, financially speaking 2) those who use public assistance as a way of life in order to ... Read Morenormally support their day to day activities of daily living from the day they are approved until the day they die. matt and i deal with group #2 for a majority of our daily work lives. these people intentionally have as many kids as their vaginas can pop out just so they can get on and stay on public assistance for as long as they can while staying at home and doing nothing but watching tv till their eyes turn blue. these are the people that claim to have some sort of physical or mental illness just so they can get on public assistance. whether they have an illness or not is not the question. rather, self-care and compliance with treatment regimens is what is in question. they abuse their bodies by doing drugs, smoking, drinking, not taking medications, not following up with their appointments and when they become acutely ill, they feel some sort of entitlement to be cared for, and cared for like royalty.

we do not encounter people from group #1 very often. people from ... Read Moregroup #1, as i have said, are people who actually need to be on public assistance (for whatever reason) to get back on their feet. children would fall into this group. it is by no fault of their own that their parents cannot or do not have the means to support them and they should be assisted by the government. what we encounter in our field of work are the parents of the 9 kids who collect welfare at the beginning of every month and use it to buy their drugs, alcohol, purses, cell phones, designer clothing, etc. while their 9 children look and dress like crap.

for whatever it's worth, i thought i had to explain all that - as jumbled as it was - i worked 12 hours last night, night 3 of 4 this week. and every 2 weeks, i am disgusted that i only take home 48% of my gross earnings because i'm single, claim no dependents and have to encounter these types of people who think they are entitled to something that they did not work for. in no way am i apologizing for any of my ... Read Morestatements because i am a firm believer in the saying: "if the shoe fits, wear it"... from your previous post, i can probably be sure that you are not of group #2.



Thoughts??

MOST HELPFUL POSTS

Sara - posted on 07/30/2009

9,313

50

586

Welfare as an idea is not a bad thing and i support it. However, the system is horribly broken and it needs to be addressed. I believe that poverty is a cylce. I also believe that the current system is set up to help you fail. Let me put it this way: You have 2 kids and are a single parent. You have a GED. You can go out and make $8/ hour at a gas station, have to pay for childcare, lose your health insurance and still not be able to pay all your bills, or you can stay on public assistance and have health insurance for you and your kids, get food stamps and not have to pay childcare. That is a realistic scenario. There's lots of would/shoulda/couldas in situations like that...should have not had kids, should have finished school, blah blah blah. But that's not the reality. The reality is that we have a system that keeps people in the cylce of poverty and that needs to be fixed.



I do agree that there are people that abuse the system, but I don't think that's a case to get rid of welfare all together, I think that's a case for a system overhaul.

Jaime - posted on 07/31/2009

4,427

24

197

I am one of the many moms in this world receiving government assistance. I don't take any offense to what Arsenio said, because I come from poverty and have seen both sides of this argument in my own family. Group #2 pertains to my mother...and although she didn't do drugs or drink, she had a lot of depression and developed a severe spending problem. I worked for much of my adolescent years and much of my paycheck went toward the bills, groceries and school supplies for me and my siblings. Every time a new credit card application came in the mail, my mom filled it out and within a week of getting the card it was maxed out! Every single day that I lived with my mother I built up more and more resentment for the fact that we were poor and she was keeping us that way--not to mention that I gave up a lot of my teen years to provide for my family. With that being said, I realize that it was my choice to do what I did, but I felt an obligation to keep my younger siblings from ever feeling the social sting of poverty. I fall under group #1, albeit I applied for assistance with a great weight of guilt on my shoulders, feeling as though I had failed. I only have one child, and I only plan on having one child, and despite the fact that I worked full-time before and during my pregnancy, my employment insurance benefits (maternity leave) are just not enough to keep me afloat. I am also a single parent, providing solely for my Son, and $223 a week just doesn't cut it when you have a baby. I have come to terms with my temporary reliance on government assistance as I know it is merely a means to an end, and I am extremely truthful and diligent in reporting all of the necessary income sources that are deducted from my welfare amount. This month I received a whopping $43 from the government...so I can assure you that I'm not taking advantage of them. My main reason for seeking assistance is to have a reasonable drug plan so that if I ever need something for my Son, I can afford to get it for him. So I guess I am on the fence too because I can see the argument from both sides.

Jessica - posted on 07/31/2009

345

39

51

I have government assistance for daycare and me and my husband both work 35-40 hrs/wk. I do think there are people out there that abuse the system and it pisses me off that for some programs they don't require a Social Security card, for obvious reasons, but if we didn't have it I couldn't work. Sometimes I feel like I'm taking advantage but then I realize..we don't eat out, I don't shop, our kids are spoiled but only recieve toys on b-days or holidays..I never spend money, the only time I go to the store isto buy groceries. I think he's either an idiot or he works in a really bad area and has seen some things that have made very calloused towards others.

Jenny - posted on 07/30/2009

4,426

16

129

That is a belief, not a fact.



People live in poverty all over the earth so we can have our luxuries. If they didn't, we wouldn't be able to afford them. I like my comfort as well but wish others could have it as well and we have the resources to acheive that.



My favourite quote: "Every dollar you spend is a vote for what you believe in."

Jenny - posted on 07/30/2009

4,426

16

129

I firmly believe the problem is money. Money=the perpetual cycle of debt. For people to have some money, other people cannot. It is not possible for all of us to have more in life becasue there is only a finite pie to share.



If we took our same scenarios but lived to share our talents, knowledge and skills, instead of profit and currency, with each other we'd have everything any of us could ever want. It breaks my heart how badly money and profit have seperated us as people.

This conversation has been closed to further comments

32 Comments

View replies by

Christa - posted on 08/22/2009

583

80

45

First off...I would like to point out that the government runs this organization....so we should not be surprised it is flawed. Second, unfair to call them slimeballs. Sure many are abusing the system...especially those in it for the LONG HAUL. But there really are cases that it comes in handy. I know someone who lost their loved one to a tragic car accident...their new born baby was only 6 weeks old. The mother was working part-time and going to school full-time. Dad's accident was alcohol related therefore his life insurance plan was nulle and void. This lady needed help and thank god the government program was available to her or she may not have survived the grief, post partum, finding full time work and part time schooling. Luckily she is back on her feet and off the program. So.....unfortunately we have to help the ones that don't deserve it in order to save the ones that do need it. So HECK YEA, test them for drugs...if they are abusing the system then let them go.

?? - posted on 08/21/2009

4,974

0

172

No I didn't think you were implying that - I was just stating my view on drugs and why. Kind of a point to say I wasn't defending drug users - I was just simply making a point.



Your daughter is very lax on something MANY adults become enraged about, spouting off about their rights being violated by such a request. That is impressive. Especially from a rebelious teenager! I couldn't care less about drug testing - if there is a reason they are asking you to not use drugs then you shouldn't be using drugs. Obviously there is a concern for negligence if they are asking for drug testing - people who get up in arms about it, should probably count themselves lucky that they are even in the position to be pee'ing in the cup - so to speak :)

Jeannette - posted on 08/21/2009

911

3

78

Jo, I didn't think you were an addict. I am sorry that you felt the need to clear the air on that issue. I tried to let you know I wasn't making direct reference to you in my post. My apologies if I failed in that attempt.

I get what you are saying about the pride issue in regards to having too much, but I still support drug testing, because I see nothing wrong with it.

My 15 year old is going to a high school this year that will be conducting random drug tests because the drugs have become a problem in the past. Now, as long as they don't do a strip search, she is allowed to pee in a cup with privacy. An adult may be in the restroom, but not in the stall. She actually isn't bothered by this; to my surprise really she is such the rebel!

?? - posted on 08/21/2009

4,974

0

172

Quoting Jeannette:

The statement about how drugs are cheaper than food...I would save up to buy the food, not buy drugs just because all I had was ten bucks, so what the hell. It is about priority. As for getting free hits from friends (and I am not saying YOU do this) I would just let my friends know, you could help me by lending me ten bucks even more. I understand that not everyone has the same personal drug policy, but mine became strictly enforced the minute I found out I was pregnant.




I completely understand what you are saying - the only reason I am replying to this is because I think you are bouncing off of what I said about drugs / food - you can let your friends know that $10 might help more than a hit off a joint... but it goes with the whole 'pride' aspect. There are A LOT of people who are too proud to ask for help - especially from friends. The government is supposed to help us, they have these programs set up specifically to help us when we can't do things on our own. And for some people it's just easier to mooch off friends the things they otherwise couldn't / wouldn't / can't / aren't able to afford rather than ask their friends for help.



Ex: Friends will offer a joint everytime you go over but it's not very often they will offer $10.



I would also like to note - I have been clean and sober since August 11, 2001. LONG before I became pregnant, and I have a VERY strict drug policy - my best friend, soulmate, lover, my angel lady died in my arms after being beaten, raped and having a bag of pills shoved down her throat making her overdose with her panties ripped down around her ankles and her top ripped over her head... I do not condone the use of drugs BUT I have been on the other side too. People can wait an extra day or two without food, but they could literally lose their minds if they don't get drugs without a safe medical detox.



I am in no way excusing addiction. But it's not something that is as easily dealt with as some people seem to think it is.

Jeannette - posted on 08/21/2009

911

3

78

I have to say, I agree with Sharon. It's nice that you few don't abuse the system, as I didn't, but I would say there are more people in the line to abuse.

We are getting lazier; in our language, in our personal care, in our desire to work for a living... I came from a family of hard workers. The men had 2 or three jobs if necessary to take care of their families, and the women did everything else. I work myself, but I carry that hard working mentality with me, because there is a level of pride to be acheived when you know you are the one taking care of your family. That is not to say that I disagree with welfare...I actually support welfare, with conditions.

I believe drug testing is a fair requirement. There is random drug testing in various types of jobs. In order for you to keep your job, you have to take the test. Why should welfare recipients be exempt? Because they don't work?

Many of us describe why we believe what we believe based on personal experience. Based on mine, the system is abused more than it is used correctly.

Joy "the historian" I would agree that the department workers are partly to blame...but I am all for personal responsibility.

The statement about how drugs are cheaper than food...I would save up to buy the food, not buy drugs just because all I had was ten bucks, so what the hell. It is about priority. As for getting free hits from friends (and I am not saying YOU do this) I would just let my friends know, you could help me by lending me ten bucks even more. I understand that not everyone has the same personal drug policy, but mine became strictly enforced the minute I found out I was pregnant.

Sharon - posted on 08/19/2009

11,585

12

1315

I think drug testing welfare recipients would be fantastic!! Think about all the kids you could save if you could test mommy & daddy for those braincell killing drugs.



OK and I agree with the OP that most come from group two. Yeah yeah, hang on, just because YOU, hard working and responsible person that you are, are NOT a part of group two does not make the statement untrue. Honest to god I HATED applying for foodstamps just because I had to take my kids to that office, filled with crackwhores and stinky drunks. Yes there were some decent people there, and there plenty wearing designer clothes with the cadillac escalade waiting outside (I'm so not kidding). OH and those of you who live in upper end neighborhoods, try visiting the poor welfare office one day. You'll want to vomit. Our town is so small there is just one office.

?? - posted on 08/19/2009

4,974

0

172

Quoting Nichole:

I posted on another post about welfare and I had individual argue with me tooth and nail about these types of people. See this does happen. I knew I wasn't nuts.


I didn't argue about those type of people - I was arguing that you can't assume that EVERYONE fits into that category just because you see a few that do. And you 100% proved my point by assuming you knew me. But again, who am I to argue with you, obviously you know EVERYONE on a personal level. Yeesh. If you had actually read what I was saying, and not just assumed about ME - you MIGHT have picked up on that - after reading this though, I don't know - I think you'd rather assume the worst than actually think that there are other people deserving of nice things other than just you.

Nichole - posted on 08/19/2009

541

123

13

Thanks..Kylie. I pop on every now and then. I have been busy with the baby and school and interviews. I start a new job next week. YAY!

Nichole - posted on 08/19/2009

541

123

13

I posted on another post about welfare and I had individual argue with me tooth and nail about these types of people. See this does happen. I knew I wasn't nuts. I fall into the group one category and I can't even get assistance cause my hubby makes a few dollars more than is allowed..I cannot stand going into the welfare seeing this people who come in with designer clothes on with 9 kids, cause the more kids you have the more money you get. HA. I agree with every thing this person wrote.

Jocelyn - posted on 08/01/2009

5,165

42

275

while i do know a few ppl that are abusing the system, i also know many that aren't. We, for example, get a baby bonus and another child tax credit (it is all income based) and while i am pregnant, i receive extended health care (until the birth of the new baby) but then my children will continue to receive extended health thru the gov't. we are living in a place where one entire paycheck of my hubbys goes to rent (i am a sahm, not by choice, can't afford daycare on my salary) and we go without a lot. we don't have cable, we don't eat out, etc. granted we do have internet, but i am taking some distance learning classes online :)
that being said, i do agree that we (anyone who receives govt assistance of any kind) should be required to do random drug testing. it would weed out a lot of the problems. i know one family, they receive a fair amount of help, but it is all under the fathers name, and he is a drug addict, so the mom and the baby never see any of the money that is suppose to be helping them :( it's quite sad.

Sarah - posted on 08/01/2009

5,465

31

344

Well i'm in UK and i do receive assistance from the government, but i also work part time and my husband works 40+ hours a week.
We get Child Benefit (which everybody gets) and we also get Tax Credits.
Tax Credits are income based.
So i think there are a lot people like me who get some help but aren't abusing the system or anything, it's just what i'm entitled to by law.

However, some people do screw the system, they are out for what they can get so to speak.
Then there's some cases where a can almost understand them choosing benefits over working for example. Sometimes the amount you would earn working ends up being a pittance because your benefits go down accordingly. You end up busting a gut working, having to pay out for childcare (tho we do get some help with that) and the majority of the wages go on childcare. I do understand i think why some people choose to just stay at home. (in the beginning at least)

No system is perfect, and people are going to abuse it. I do think that a lot of people use it the way it is intended. For me it's a great help! :)

?? - posted on 07/31/2009

4,974

0

172

Well here's a twist... my brother is a doctor and a panago pizza delivery guy and is training for shotput in the olympics...... so he works his butt off everyday as that "doctor" and that "person flipping hamburgers".... he has more than enough brains or brawn to be and do whatever the hell he pleases to be and do -- but he gets enjoyment out of doin all of it.



I think, going off of what Jenny was saying that a doctor who works his ass off is no different than the guy flippin burgers is workin his ass off. In todays world - that burger flipper man, is just as valuable as that doctor to the majority of the population because that doctor will help say, 12 patients a day - that burger flipper he helps anywheres from 100 to 1000 people a day.



Not everyone is going to be a doctor - that doesn't mean their life, their job, their effort is any less valuable.



I'll also point out that a box of mac n cheese, milk & butter to make it costs more than a joint. Sooo.... just because you can buy a joint doesn't mean you have enough to even make a box of mac n cheese - not making excuses but the whole "they have enough money to buy drugs, they have enough money to buy food" argument has more holes than a certain kinda cheese. As well as.... people have friends... who do drugs... and share. You don't need to BUY drugs to use them. As well, you can be actively looking for work, having some fun on the weekends AND needing assistance to make sure your kids don't starve or lose the house they live in.



I'm on the fence - I don't think someone who is trying really hard should be made to pay for everyone elses actions. And I don't agree with doing drugs. So I don't know really. People are lazy. It's the new 'in thing' to do. I know a lot of girls who got pregnant on purpose so they didn't have to work, so they could live off government assistance and then rely on child support to get them through (as well as mommy and daddy). But then I also know a few girls who ended up a single mom and they try their hardest, they work, they do what they have to do and the government assistance is what keeps them above water.... and there's a couple of them that I know have gone out on a few weekends and gotten completely shit faced, high and just wrecked. They shouldn't lose their assistance because of something like that, especially when they work so damn hard the other 99% of the time.

Jenny - posted on 07/30/2009

4,426

16

129

I don't think we need to have people who flip burgers for a living. I believe we have the technology that could handle that for the people who truly need a burger in two minutes. I believe all humans should have the same quality of life with sustainability as the goal.

Traci - posted on 07/30/2009

2,158

2

102

So, do you think a doctor who works his butt off should have the same quality of life as someone who flips burgers? I'm just trying to see what you're getting at.

Kylie - posted on 07/30/2009

2,391

81

190

his comments are just stupid.. no groups of people can be put into 2 categories... life is full of grey areas..he seems pretty immature and judgmental.

Traci - posted on 07/30/2009

2,158

2

102

If there wasn't any profit, there wouldn't be anything. We'd all be living in huts, banging on our bongos and chanting. lol



I like my computer, my digital cameras, my nice comfortable home with my air conditioning in the summer and my heat in the winter, my refridgerator that keeps my food cold so that we all don't die of botulism. That's just me, though...

Tracy - posted on 07/30/2009

217

18

8

There are always going to be people that abuse the system. I live in Australia and our system is different than the US system but its nice to know its there just incase. Yes there people out there that have too many children and use them to get money. I agree this is wrong but I would hope this group is a minority not the majority. You could say the same about the rich that are at the top of scale. They have money and the power to abuse the government system too. I think neither are good but I still hope that majority of society is honest.

JL - posted on 07/30/2009

3,635

48

107

The system needs to be fixed there is no doubt about it but government assistance programs should not be dropped. Even when it is fixed there will always be people who will use and abuse the system. I for one have used government assistance..WIC... at a time in my life when I needed a hand up until I could get back on my feet and as soon as I was able to do what I needed I immediately removed myself from WIC and while on it I only used the minimum of what I needed and no more than that.



When I was on WIC I did see people abusing the system but let me tell you the county and state offices are just as guilty as those abusing the system because they let these people get away with it and do little to regulate abuse. I was not required or asked to come in and come off WIC once I was financially no longer eligible. In fact I could have stayed on it for a year before I needed to reasset by finanical status. So I could have abused the system and used WIC for a year even if I did not need too and no one would have said a damn thing to me. I went in on my own trusion after using it for 6 months only for formula and removed myself from WIC when my husband got a promotion



I do think that we bulk too many people into the abusing the system category..when it is the ineffeciency of the system that is allowing some of this abuse to happen.

Ez - posted on 07/30/2009

6,569

25

237

It sounds like our social security system in Australia differs slightly than that in the US. Of course we have people who take advantage of the system but there are policies in place to try and limit this. For example, I receive a single parenting payment for Milla. It allows for me to stay home with her until she is 6, but after that for the payment to continue I must be working or doing further training. Now I'm going back to part-time work in 5 weeks, and I then must declare everything I earn and my payment is adjusted accordingly. Also, people receiving unemployment benefits must provide proof they are in fact looking for work. We also have a work-for-the-dole scheme.

These policies don't eradicate the problem, but they sure make it harder to take advantage of the system. There will always be those people who intentionally have more children, or make false claims of disability/illness etc, but I do believe they are in the minority here.

[deleted account]

I do support welfare programs, because I am certain there are families out there who need the support to get by. I don't think children should suffer for the choices their parents make - and being born into poverty, they'll need every bit of help they can get to break that cycle. I think we need to reform the programs to help people transition off of assistance. While there are people out there abusing the system, but I think the vast majority of recipients are truly trying to better themselves. That being said, I certainly do favor drug tests as an eligibility requirement for government assistance. Like Traci said, I figure if they have enough cash to buy drugs, they don't need any help with food.

Lindsay - posted on 07/30/2009

3,532

26

267

It's very easy to just notice the flaws in the system and not even pay attention that it really may be helping people out that aren't abusing it. I worked for a credit union for a bout 3 1/2 years before I quit last year to go back and finish college and we saw people who got monthly checks each month. There were definately people that rolled up in the drive thru with their big fancy car cashing 6 $750 checks for their kids. There were also people that come in and were very frugal and would have us help them calculate their budget for each month. As with anything, there are people out there that truly need help and want to better their lives and not live off of it forever, but their are also those who are totally content with that free check each month and aren't going to do a thing in fear of losing it.



I'm not trying to judge anyone that does use assistance though because Madeline did have a Medical card for a couple of months when she was a baby before I could afford insurance at work. It was a lifesaver while we had it but the thing is, once I got to where I could take over on it, I did.

Traci - posted on 07/30/2009

2,158

2

102

It did sound crass, Dana...but I know MANY cops who have overheard people saying they need to have some more kids so they can get more money. I don't like to believe there are people out there with that kind of mentality, either, but the truth is there are many....so sad.

Dana - posted on 07/30/2009

11,264

35

495

How ridiculous. I believe there are some people who abuse the system but, to say that most of them are from group #2, I don't believe that at all. Sounds to me like they are jaded and a little immature... "have as many kids as their vaginas can pop out". Nice. It makes me wonder what field they work in. My BIL just lost his job after 11 yrs b/c the company had poor managment, and closed. My sister went and was able to get food stamps and health care for them and their 2 kids while he looks for another job. Thankfully there are programs like that to help out. After many YEARS of me, my parents, my other sisters,the sister I'm talking about and all other family members(12 Aunt and Uncles,their children) paying taxes someone I know gets to use it when they need it. Where is anyone's compassion anymore?

ME - posted on 07/30/2009

2,978

18

193

I've also worked in social services and volunteer services for many years (as well as in education). I find statements like this to be, not only heartless, but fallacious and intentionally ignorant. The teenage moms (and other homeless teens) that I worked with at a residential treatment facility were all on public aid (which was miniscule at best). They ALL had a mental illness, and most of them had an IQ below 85. Some were the victims of sexual crimes, kidnappings, ritualistic torture, and violence. Many didn't (100%) understand the ramifications of any of their decisions, let alone the decision to carry a child to term. School was out of the question, a career was out of the question, and family support was out of the question (as most of their parents were abusive, drug addicted, mentally ill individuals as well). The sad truth is that some people abuse the system...but for the 80-90% of the population who truly need our help, statements like the above are malicious falsehoods. Poverty, racism, mental illness, drug abuse, violence; these are cyclical patterns, and we as a society (in the US) do little to nothing to help change the pattern, so it's hard to understand when people complain about cleaning up a mess we refuse to stop making.

Join Circle of Moms

Sign up for Circle of Moms and be a part of this community! Membership is just one click away.

Join Circle of Moms