Homeschooling

Isobel - posted on 11/25/2010 ( 325 moms have responded )

9,849

0

286

I think that in order to be allowed to educate your own child, you should have to pass (get an A) ALL the tests of that particular grade. It scares the crap out of me that there are SOME (clearly not all home educators) that are using home schooling as a chance to indoctrinate their children and keep them from being exposed to ideas that are different ideas than their own.

Do you think that you have the "right" to educate your child any way you see fit?

MOST HELPFUL POSTS

Sharon - posted on 11/27/2010

11,585

12

1315

Julianne - the ignorant cannot teach what they do not know.

You can't spell. Can't operate spellcheck. Your child isn't even school age. Your ONLY infant child is not school age. Good luck with giving your child EVERY advantage from the disadvantaged seats.

Isobel - posted on 11/25/2010

9,849

0

286

So you would limit his opportunities based on what YOU thought was an important subject at school? I thought being educated was a human right.

Lynn - posted on 08/29/2011

22

48

1

Home schooling mum of six children here in Australia. Been living a home education life style for 26 years now. It's interesting to read all the misconceptions about home educating parents. Of course we all know the strange families that get onto TV programmes, they dress strangely and teach their children unusual subjects while socially isolating them and brain washing them with their religious/cultish beliefs. Hey, guess what? Most of us are not like that! Most of us aren't religious fanatics with a hate of all things secular. Most of us are just every day people who have made a different choice to you. Like some choose a Steiner School or a Montessori school, or some other private school, we choose home school. There are as many ways of home schooling as there are people doing it, but I have never met anyone doing it for an easy life, nor anyone doing it for selfish reasons. Everyone I have met over all these years have only had one thing in common, doing what is in the best interests of their children. Usually they are prepared to sacrifice a second income to achieve that. They have a commitment that drives them to provide the best education they can and take all the responsibility for that. Why is that so threatening? I don't advocate home education for every child. It's my choice and I have six almost all adult children who can provide the evidence of my efforts if you'd like to chat with them. All fully employed, hard working adults who respect me and yet can think for themselves and make responsible choices too. They have all played team sports or done dancing at a state competition level. One is a black belt in karate and teaches karate, she is only 17. Another wins prizes for her cross stitches and is a trainee book keeper. Yet another is a stay at home Dad who works at night to support his little family. Another runs her own mobile hairdressing business and has a young baby now. All children I can be proud of. Did I make sacrifices, yes. Do I have any regrets, no way! You choose your way and I will respect that. You know what the hardest thing was about home schooling when I first started? It was persecution. It was blatant negative comments to myself and my children. It was insulting.

Everyone should have the right to educate their own children. If children are being neglected or abused, they need to be protected. I am a foster carer, I know what the possibilities are and I have never met a home schooling family capable of the kinds of abuse I know of in the community, and those children go to school. I don't need anyone's approval these days, I have more than enough evidence that I did what was right for my children.

Sharon - posted on 11/28/2010

11,585

12

1315

The fact is, most parents are VERY capable of teaching there children from home.

I feel sorry for teachers in there current situation,

Seriously? You never managed to grasp the simple "they are" versus "over there" concept but you're better able to teach your kids how to suceed in this world?

I truely despair for the future. I really do.

Public schools were never meant to be the be all and end all of education. However, the strongly ignorant among us insist that the public school system is failing our kids. In some places I'm sure it is. In others, the schools are hampered by the "not my kid" issue. "MY kid did not mouth off to the teacher." "My kid did not bully that student." "My kid deserves a second chance to turn his homework in because we all know life is like that. You have innumerable chances to make things right in the work place and in college."

LMFAO!!! BAWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! omfg... people just kill me, they really do. There is this twist I get when I read crap like this. People who can't spell, can't use grammar, have ridiculous ideas of what public education is responsible for.....

"I" take my kids to the zoo. "I" take my kids to the botanical gardens. "I" take my kids on nature hikes. "I" spank my kids. "I" give my kids morals. "I" fight for my kids when they need it, until then they fight for themselves.

"YOU" need to wake up and face the facts that until you can grasp the simple things in education, the deeper things will not matter. "smelling the roses" versus being able to write... rotfl....

Jenny - posted on 11/25/2010

4,426

16

129

"and there would be things I leave out as far as certain areas of math, and algebra….some of those things are not necessary to me. Unless I knew my son was going into a profession that required extensive knowledge in those areas."

Are you doing in life what you trained in high school for? I was cvonvinced I was going to be a journalist. I used trigonometry numerous times recently drafting cabinetry (in fractions, down to the 32nd). I'm glad I had access to a well rounded education BEFORE I knew where life would lead me.

This conversation has been closed to further comments

325 Comments

View replies by

[deleted account]

Have you ever studied logic? Or, perhaps, advanced maths?
I don't think so. I'll tell you why. You are incorrectly assuming that a student can only learn what the teacher knows and can't surpass that learning.

My son surpassed my reading skill before middle school. My daughter is quickly reaching the point where she surpasses me. Of course, I'm held back by a mild case of dyslexia and they are not. But, no matter, they are surpassing my skill.

My son had no trouble studying algebra, geometry and statistics. My daughter will start pre-algebra next month – yes, as a 5th grader. Me? I barely passed algebra in high school and hubby didn't even take it. Oops, our children are surpassing us in math skills as well.

My son is an avid gun aficionado. I know nothing about them except for the proper respect with which to treat them.

My daughter loves to draw. Her current passion is anime. Nope, I couldn't draw a recognizable picture if my life depended on it.

So, how do I handle teaching courses that I know little or nothing about? Simply.
I either learn right along with the child, I provide them with the resources and trust them to learn on their own, or I contract a more confident/competent teacher than I for those subjects. My son took college courses while in high school. I assume my daughter will do the same.

[deleted account]

Wow! Yeah, O.K. I'd be more than happy to be tested to teach my child if the same standard holds for *all* teachers - even the unionized ones. (The union doesn't want that, btw.)
I doubt that my teachers (30+ years ago) could pass a test like that. I know that my history and Spanish teachers were actually librarians. One of my math teachers was a actually a counselor.

Many of my son is now graduated and working with a teacher in her at-home job. She has a Special Ed. teaching credential, but has no idea how to deal with him - he's been diagnosed with Asperger's.

My daughter is in 5th grade - homeschooling - she works at grade levels ranging from 3rd-8th At what level should I test?

Tracey - posted on 09/30/2011

236

440

0

Coming very late to this, but 1) fact: many teachers do not have a degree in the area they are teaching in, something like over 50% of all high school teachers in the U.S., at least. 2) If I sent my kids to a government school, you mean they wouldn't be indoctrinating my kids? Or to a religious school? Do you mean we all have to believe the same way? I think that's called "GroupThink" (see the book 1984). At the bottom of this opinion is the question "Who is ultimately responsible for the child?" Where I live, at least, it's the parent. Sometimes an errant divorce court judge will make an inexplicable, harmful decision (and the parents fight tooth and nail to get it reversed), but you know, if I were to move to another country, my kids would come with me. Because the State doesn't "own" them.

Kate CP - posted on 08/29/2011

8,942

36

758

I gotta tell ya that after the trials and tribulations I've had with the schools my daughter has attended I am damn tempted to home school her myself. >:(

Isobel - posted on 08/29/2011

9,849

0

286

I'm pretty certain Meg, that my son's teacher could get an A in any test she gave him.

Alison - posted on 08/29/2011

279

20

32

Even public schools don't offer all sides. Too many teachers in any circumstance just try to pass their opinion or perspective onto their student and don't teach the student to think for and find answers for himself. The reason people are exceptionally worried about homeschoolers, it seems to me, is because they take issue with the largely religious underpinnings of the modern homeschool movement. It's prejudiced and intolerant IMO. It buys into and perpetuates the idea that if you are religious then you can't possibly think for yourself and/or be intelligent. Pulling your children out of public school makes it more difficult for others to indoctrinate them into the liberal and atheist ideologies steadily taking over public education. Are there substandard and/or abusive "home educators"--sure. There are crappy parents and teachers in every avenue. Minimal regulation of homeschooling may be appropriate, but I do think it should absolutely be minimal.

Meg - posted on 08/24/2011

26

1

3

No, I think that to be an effecting homeschooling family you need to offer all sides of the subject. But having said that, catholic and other religious schools don't offer all the arguments, so I think it's a bit of a doozy.

As for passing all the tests and getting an A, how many people do you know who did that? And for the rest of the parents out there who didn't get an A .... they went to school to learn, but didn't get an A so what will make their kids score A's in a school!?

I'm an unschooling mama, and it's just as well my schooling didn't determine my ability to homeschool because school bored me to tears and I did badly but I am an intelligent and articulate woman who topped all my classes in college!

Emily - posted on 03/10/2011

85

0

3

Most people seem to see no reason to teach anyone Latin at all. There was a time that every young scholar learned Latin as a matter of course. It is the language of science and law. It is the foundation of the romance languages and much of English. And, as you mentioned, there are the classics and biblical studies. It is a valuable tool enabling you to unlock a world of learning. I wonder at people's reticence to learn something. Can you really say there is something you DON'T want to know? Why not teach the most difficult (and useful) of languages at an early age while the child is still hard-wired for learning language? They will be learning Greek shortly as well - for the purpose of studying the bible. (By the way, I am not teaching them by myself. They are learning Latin from a course that is designed to teach them directly. I am learning alongside them. It would be no different than if your parents had accompanied you to your French lessons.)

Experts are not, by today's standards, simply someone who knows what they're doing. They are someone revered for their "ability" to tell you what to do and how to do it. They do NOT necessarily know more than the next person. They simply have a title that claims that they do. When you have an "expert" doctor tell you that pertussis doesn't occur in adults, is he right simply because he has that piece of paper on the wall stating that he's an expert? Or is he wrong, in spite of it? (The medical experts veer violently between what they say is healthy or dangerous to eat, and it changes annually. When are they right, and when are they wrong?) When the history professor says that the American Civil War was fought over slavery, does his degree make him correct? Or is he still ignorant of the facts, despite being an "expert"? Did Dr. Spock really know the best way to raise children, when he never had any of his own, and his adopted daughter wouldn't even speak to him? Yet he was touted as the be-all end-all authority of how to raise children, calling into doubt the maternal instincts that have served mothers for millennia.

Prior to 1900, sensible people would not have listened to a person based solely on some title bestowed upon them. That is a social construct of the "progressive era" of Woodrow Wilson, and his ilk. It serves their purpose of controlling the populace. If you fear doing something because you "know your limits", which have simply been handed to you by the "experts", then you are no threat to their authority. I, for one, know that if I don't know something, I can learn it. I am instilling that in my children, along with a formidable wealth of education and the tools with which to learn more.

Johnny - posted on 03/10/2011

8,686

26

322

When I was referring to receiving a bachelors or masters degree in the subject they are teaching, I am not referring to a teaching degree. English teachers must have a degree in English, Math teachers in math, and so on. After completing those degrees, they then apply to enter the education field and get a teaching degree. It used to be that after a BA or BSC they could simply get a teaching diploma, but now a full degree program is necessary. It's unfortunate that you have been exposed to such poorly educated teachers. I have met a few that were not all that fantastic, but for the most part, I have been very impressed with the level of knowledge and the standards of teaching that I've seen in our schools. There is always room for improvement, but that exists in anything.

I personally see little point in teaching Latin to a 7 year old child except to give the parent something to brag about. Unless you are planning to study classics or become a biblical scholar, there is little point. I actually do know a fluent speaker of classical Latin though. A friend of my parents is a Classics teacher at a university here and likes to impress people at dinner parties or pub nights. I don't think he has all that many other opportunities to use it orally though. I have to ask, why would you want to focus your children on a language that is virtually extinct at the age of 7?

As for my French, I do not have and have not had a great amount of access to or reason to practice it. I occasionally watch tv or listen to the radio in French, but I only have one Francophone acquaintance who I only see occasionally. Despite working for a French corporation, it is not at all required in my daily work, and I virtually never run into French speakers, although I can manage if I do. It has been 17 years since my last formal French training, so it probably wouldn't surprise you to learn that I am a tad rusty. I also do not think that I would bother teaching my child a language that I was not completely fluent and comfortable in. I have never had a language teacher that did not have complete command of the language they spoke and I could not see it being all that useful if they had not been.

As for experts, are they not really just people who know what they are doing? There have always been people who were wise in certain things that society turned to for their knowledge, advise, and teachings. I'm not exactly sure what you are getting at when you state that there were no "experts" prior to 1900? I'm not sure why you would think that seeking wisdom from those who may be more knowledgeable than oneself means that this world is in a sorry state. I personally fear those who are so confident in their own abilities that they are unable to recognize their limits.

Emily - posted on 03/10/2011

85

0

3

Thank you for the reminder Johnny... I had not thought to mention my location. However, the original question asked if "I" thought I had the right to teach my child however I liked. Here, in the US, there are plenty of people who think that we do NOT have that right, and yet we do. Of course, they get most of the constitution wrong, so it comes as no surprise. No, there are no rights listed in our Constitution mentioning the education of ones children either. But the entire point of the Constitution is to enumerate the rights we DO NOT have, because they are given to the state or federal government. Anything not mentioned is a right held by the people.



Yes, the teachers here have the same degrees, but it means nothing when it comes to knowing the subject matter. It must be different where you are. Here they don't actually teach the subject matter in college. They teach how to handle large groups of children, and "not discriminate".



Just curious, where would you propose I could find a native, or even fluent, speaker of classical Latin??? Do you have Latin immersion courses for 7 year old children? What is the "proper way" to learn Latin, if not through a Rosetta-Stone style course? I can't send my child to ancient Rome to live for a few months. It doesn't exist.



As an aside... It doesn't say much for your French lessons if after all of those classes, and immersion courses with native speakers, you still cannot speak French "fluently" enough to teach a young child how to speak.



It's a sorry world we live in, that we believe that "experts" are the only ones capable of doing anything. Before 1900, there were no "experts", just people who knew what they were doing, and people who didn't.

Johnny - posted on 03/09/2011

8,686

26

322

Just a heads up Emily... this is an international site so you should probably be clear about which country has the "god-given" enumerated right in the constitution to which you refer. I am assuming you are an American. There are many Australians, Britains, Canadians, South Africans, and a few others here.

Where I am from, there are no rights to do anything to one's children in our constitution. And our teachers are well educated in the subjects in which they teach. High school teachers are required to hold a minimum of a bachelor's degree in the subject(s) which they teach. Many here hold or are pursuing master's degrees.

I certainly would not presume to teach my child any language which I had just learned bits of the day before. I would most likely get it wrong. I've been educated in French for years, I took it in elementary school, high school, and college. My parents sent me to extra-curricular French classes and I attended 2 month-long immersion courses in French speaking places. I know I am in no way qualified to become my child's French teacher. I would much prefer to trust someone who is at minimum a fluent speaker and preferably a native speaker. I'd like my children to learn the proper way to speak a language, not the Rosetta Stone second hand.

Emily - posted on 03/09/2011

85

0

3

Late comer to the debate, and I've only read the first page or so...

I find it interesting that the original poster would require parents to pass a test with flying colors (get an A), when the government school teacher don't have to do anything of the sort. I've known plenty of teachers who know far less about their chosen subject than an 8th grader should, and yet they teach high school! They get away with it, because "they have a degree", which is just a fancy piece of paper stating that they have learned crowd-control techniques.

I for one, never even got a high-school diploma. They did not give them to home-schoolers at the time. I was taught at home by my mother, who also never got her high-school diploma. She had quit school in the 10th grade. She would never have passed your test for history, geography, or english. Yet, she apparently had the ability to teach the subjects to her children. (Not unlike the government school teachers who don't know anything, and yet still manage to teach your kid.) You don't have to have mastered a subject to teach it. You just have to be willing to learn.

I'm currently teaching Latin to my 6 and 9 year old sons. I never took a latin course, nor would I pass a latin test. I took my first latin lesson the day before my sons took theirs. We are coming along beautifully. (How much latin does your child speak?) However, by your standards, I should be forbidden to teach my children Latin at all, since I hadn't mastered the subject first. Stange.

Yes, I do indeed believe I have the right to teach my child in whatever way I see fit. Do you find that God-given right to be enumerated in the constitution as belonging to anyone besides the parent?

Emily - posted on 03/09/2011

85

0

3

Late comer to the debate, and I've only read the first page or so...

I find it interesting that the original poster would require parents to pass a test with flying colors (get an A), when the government school teacher don't have to do anything of the sort. I've known plenty of teachers who know far less about their chosen subject than an 8th grader should, and yet they teach high school! They get away with it, because "they have a degree", which is just a fancy piece of paper stating that they have learned crowd-control techniques.

I for one, never even got a high-school diploma. They did not give them to home-schoolers at the time. I was taught at home by my mother, who also never got her high-school diploma. She had quit school in the 10th grade. She would never have passed your test for history, geography, or english. Yet, she apparently had the ability to teach the subjects to her children. (Not unlike the government school teachers who don't know anything, and yet still manage to teach your kid.) You don't have to have mastered a subject to teach it. You just have to be willing to learn.

I'm currently teaching Latin to my 6 and 9 year old sons. I never took a latin course, nor would I pass a latin test. I took my first latin lesson the day before my sons took theirs. We are coming along beautifully. (How much latin does your child speak?) However, by your standards, I should be forbidden to teach my children Latin at all, since I hadn't mastered the subject first. Stange.

Yes, I do indeed believe I have the right to teach my child in whatever way I see fit. Do you find that God-given right to be enumerated in the constitution as belonging to anyone besides the parent?

Lysandra - posted on 02/08/2011

14

18

0

My mother took me and my 3 siblings out of school as we were all miserable after my mother's divorce, the teachers in our school were doing nothing to help us but infact bullying us as bad as the children were. I had bruises on my arms where a teacher had dug her fingers into it dragging me around corridors. If my Mum hadn't of stood up to the system and stood up for her children (as I pray any confident Mother would) I would probably have never had the oppertunity to become the confident woman I am today with a baby of my own. I went back to school for high school a completely different person. I was confident (well nearly but I knew how to come across confident) I quickly made friends, I was happy and comfortable. Teachers automatically tagged me and put me into bottom groups in classes because I had been home schooled. Within a single term and only a couple of tests I was put into top groups on most subjects (not chemistry still can't get the hang of that subject) as were my siblings. I hate when Mum's are tagged for taking their children out of school when sometimes (not in all cases) it IS what is best for the child and as long as curriculum is followed correctly then there is no reason a child should not be home schooled as my Mother proved that her single self did a far better job than the 7 plus professional, trained teachers in school could! I agree ome parents would take advantage of this, and no they should not be allowed to tutor their child but don't tar every mother with the same brush. I'd do it for my child!

Merissa - posted on 02/08/2011

15

7

0

Definately not, children need to discover who they want to be by experience. there is a study that shows children that are forced to learn a specific way (such as, by a parent who wants them to go by what they believe in) end up having sex changes and really bad depression, some have committed seuicide and have done harmful things to themselves. children find out who they are by meeting people and trying new things. i would think that if you are wanting your child to learn the one way you believe then you shouldnt be a parent.

Lady Heather - posted on 01/25/2011

2,448

17

91

I did that when I was little with neighbours of ours - the igloo thing, not the turtles. All history and world study should be taught this way. If you can't get there, you may as well recreate.

I'm planning on going into elementary teaching when I have school age kids. I'm hoping to do some good in a system that doesn't always do good. I have an archaeology degree and that is exactly how I'd like to apply it in the classroom - real hands on stuff.

Tara - posted on 01/25/2011

2,567

14

114

@Heather lololol
We also mummified some baby turtles that hatched out too late in the fall and froze to death overnight, some were half in and half out of their shells, they're a conversation starter for sure! They sit on a shelf with some houseplants!
I love how we homeschool our kids, we're working on a unit study about Canada's Inuit people and how they lived in the past, so..... we're going to build an igloo, make a fire in it and try to sleep outside over night inside, plus cook our dinner etc..
Should be an experience for sure!
:)

Lady Heather - posted on 01/24/2011

2,448

17

91

I just read the first page. Tara - can you come teach my kid? Mummifying chickens? Awesome.

[deleted account]

yes





I'm coming into this very late as well and will admit that I did not read the replies. We're homeschoolers though. We love it, it works. IMHO, public school are failing our children. If anything they are learning negative things. Home educators getting an "A" to be able to teach, ridiculous. Most teachers wouldn't get an A. I'm not sure what people think homeschoolers want to indoctrinate their children with that they wouldn't just by living with them.



I totally agree with this statement as we are homeschoolers as well. I can promise you that when a teacher starts using my child as a teachers helper all year because she can't teach my daughter anything then it is time for us to start teaching her. We homeschool because the public school is incapable of teaching our children at their own level due to the no child left behind act. We teach our kids at home because we don't agree with everything the schools are trying to force down our throats. You WILL NOT tell my child that they can go out and have sex with anyone they want as long as they use a condom. You WILL NOT tell my child they can't pray or recite the pledge. You WILL NOT tell my child to stop learning until the rest of the class can catch up and so on.

Mother - posted on 01/04/2011

1,627

79

30

I'm coming into this very late and will admit that I did not read the replies. We're homeschoolers. We love it, it works. IMHO, public school are failing our children. If anything they are learning negative things. Home educators getting an "A" to be able to teach, ridiculous. Most teachers wouldn't get an A. I'm not sure what people think homeschoolers want to indoctrinate their children with that they wouldn't just by living with them.

[deleted account]

Laura, i was not talking to you. I was responding to the woman who took a personal stab at me just because I made a grammar error in one of my previous posts and actually, i read the entire thread from page one to the last page before i responded. I agree with the whole testing homeschooling parents thing, but where I am from, this happens, so it wasnt really a point of concern for me. But its pretty weird that in some countries parents can just homeschool kids with no registration or accountability. thats just weird. I didn't know that was occuring in other countries. surely its not America????

Isobel - posted on 12/02/2010

9,849

0

286

and clearly you didn't read the thread...the op was just an example...many people will NOT hire tutors because they don't know that there's a problem...part of my "test the educator before they educate" plan would be to tell them which subjects the child NEEDS a tutor for.

This thread was never about normal homeschoolers cause clearly most of them are doing a great job...the question was how do we protect children from the bad ones?

[deleted account]

wow, people are getting very petty. A 2 minute post with one or two spelling errors and all of a sudden someone is not allowed to teach a child. haha love it. So sad. So judgemental. I guess you didn't have the time to read my post all the way through. I did mention, that you can get tutors to come and teach the subjects that you aren't great at... so it is not a solid argument to say that someone who spells a few words wrong is inable to teach. Infact, most teachers I know... and it is about 10, do not excel in every single subject they teach...thats why 95% of teachers teach with CURRICULUM... you know, text books? Just as homeschoolers do. you do not have to be a genius to teach your children. You just hire a little help where its needed. and actually, the point of educating a child is to see them exceed far beyond what you did anyway. Since homeschooled children are monitored for progress, my point stands... homeschooling is okay. Even for the not so "einstein" parents... oh wow no capital letter... im such a bad teacher. hahaha

Nikkole - posted on 11/29/2010

1,505

31

49

I think home schooled kids should still be able to go to prom, field trips and other things because they miss out on so much just staying at home learning like social skills and how to deal with peer pressure! But i agree any parent who home schools should have to take tests and pass with flying colors because i know a few kids who were home schooled and there parents did NOTHING and the kids went back to school and didn't know much at all very sad! But i do know some parents who are awesome at it! for me i would never home school my kids i couldn't do it but more power to those who can and do it well!

Isobel - posted on 11/29/2010

9,849

0

286

In YOUR neck of the woods it is regulated...not everywhere...and the correct comparisons would be people who don't encourage their children to do ANY physical activities or drive an outdated car without seat belts.

The reason it seems so redundant and boring is because you are SO sensitive that you are not reading the ACTUAL point.

If you don't believe that ALL educators should be evaluated before being allowed to teach, you must believe that stark raving idiots should be allowed to "educate" their children any way they see fit.

We've already had 3 women on here who say that their right to educate according to their own beliefs (ignoring math in one case because it's "not really that important") is more important than the child's right to be educated.

You keep arguing points that we already agree about...how bout answering this one.

Jodi - posted on 11/29/2010

2,694

52

175

Wow, is this ever getting redundant or what? Not sure how many more different ways I come up with saying the same thing, so this is my last attempt as it's getting pretty boring here for me.

Carol, my point..once again...is that there ARE regulations in place. My point, once again, is that the percentage of homeschooling parents disservicing their children (or as you and many others have claimed...are abusing their children) has got to be so fractionally small (I come to this conclusion from the studies that show that homeschooled children do better...astronomically so.) that FURTHER regulating the way of education that is, on average, working out BETTER for the child seems silly to me. Regulations are put in place when MANY parents (or many people in general society for different issues) are disserving, endangering or abusing their children. The VAST majority of homeschooling parents are doing no such thing, in fact, quite the opposite. We don't enforce any proper nutrition on parents to feed their children, and look at our country, our children (and adults) are obese, diabetic, having heart attacks early, strokes early and dying younger...but again, heaven forbid anyone bring up regulating fast food! THAT affects many many many times the children negatively than the small percentage of poor homeschooling parents.

Once again, this topic is "picking" on such a small minority it's kind of laughable. Who's next? Parents who don't sign their kid up for extra curriculars? Maybe parents who drive out of date models of cars that don't have air bags, automatic brakes and cameras on the bumper for backing up? People do run over their own children you know, I suggest we require all parents to own only vehicles that have cameras and sensors in the back to avoid this. Perhaps all parents should also be required to own a cell phone, what if they're at the park and something happens? How will they call 911? While we're at it, lets make every parent submit all receipts from the grocery store, restaurants, and fast food joints to a local government agency (pick one...or we could make a new one just for this purpose.) to ensure all children are receiving proper nutrition. I hope it's obvious that this last paragraph has been satirical...although I wouldn't be surprised if some ladies here took it as serious sadly. Would these things help some children? Sure, but how many rules and regulations are we going to enforce on parents until parents are not parents anymore, just drones raising clones of one another? Where does it stop when we start focusing on minorities and things that are, on average, excellent for child and parent?

There ARE regulations in place (once again *sigh*), people are going to slip through the cracks no matter what, sometimes less reguations are better. If we force parents (and here I'm am referring to the parents who wish to homeschool in order to abuse their children with lack of education or with isolation or what you) to test and prove their worth ON TOP of registering, submitting curriculums and annual or bi-annual testing of the child, do you think they will even register their children as homeschooled at all? There are already people who do that, how many more will do it to get away with it? This way, some of them perhaps are not scared off and their children can be observed and helped with the regulations that are already in place. Sometimes, the outcome of too many or too strict of laws, is quite the opposite of what we hoped for.

By this point, this has all become so redundant I'm bored with it...a tad frustrated at saying the same thing over and over and over again in a million different ways that I'm moving on. (I'm sure you feel the same way, that's kind of how it goes when people don't see something eye to eye! ;) ) So, argue against it if you must, and have fun, but I'm out! Time to play tea party with my LO, count cookies, learn table manners and work on vocab! Have fun!

Tracey - posted on 11/29/2010

31

3

2

If educating your own child will give them the maximum amount of information and the best outcomes then I think it is a good idea. I think that by educating your own children you are hands-on. You can pick up on problems quicker than a teacher as your child is getting individual attention.

Johnny - posted on 11/28/2010

8,686

26

322

By that logic, we should get rid of the police, Child Protection Services, environmental laws, and civic by-laws too. There are regulations governing public schools and they are accountable, at least where I reside. Anyone who wants to be responsible for kids, the parent or anyone else, needs to be accountable and monitored. Most of us have no reason to be concerned about this, if you are, then I'd suspect you've got something to be worried about.

Jodi - posted on 11/28/2010

3,562

36

3907

But the few that screw it up for everyone is the reason MANY of our regulations and laws are in place.

Jodi - posted on 11/28/2010

2,694

52

175

Carol, do I think it's right that a homeschooling mom would hold her child back with a poor education? No, but I also don't think a parent should hold their child back health wise by feeding them crap food, or hold them back socially by not allowing them to take dance class if they want, but I'm not going to tell another mom what she has to do with her child, much less ban fast food, require social activities for all parents or anything like that.

I will believe you about the 30% of children not attending any form of "formal" education (ie preschool, early kindergarten etc etc), but those parents are obviously not homeschoolers, and that was my point. This is about homeschoolers, and although no link was supplied for me to verify, I can't imagine that in testing mainstreamed kindergarteners that many homeschooled kindergarteners were included in the study.
And let's not even mention that regulations ARE in fact, already in place for exactly this reason. Ijust simply do not see the need for MORE regulations on something that is working out wonderfully the vast majority of the time, and something that the VAST majority of parents actually put time and effort into this particular decision.

I mean really, it has to be such an astronomically small percentage of parents who are completely incapable of homeschooling who are still choosing to do so that it's laughable to demand stricter regulations. All of the statistics support the fact that homeschoolers do better academically than mainstreamed children, and therefore it stands to reason that homeschooling parents ARE capable of teaching their children, despite the few that screw it up for everyone.

Johnny - posted on 11/28/2010

8,686

26

322

Actually Jodi, the work that has been done to figure out why these 30% of kids are starting school unprepared has noted that the vast majority of those students received no formal classes, preschool, early childhood learning centre participation, and we do not have early kindergarten here. In order to improve this situation, the government has recently begun opening Strong Start Centres, free early learning facilities for parents to attend with their children, and is moving towards starting optional early kindergarten. The parents and caregivers are the ones who have failed. Now, I do think that post people who are inclined to homeschool are likely on top of these issues and would not have children who fall into this demographic. My point was that regulations would help to prevent those parents who clearly are inept at educating their children from choosing to begin homeschooling. I'm sure most homeschooling parents are simply wonderful, if a bit defensive, but it confuses me why you would want to allow people who are not competent to teach their child in the home.

Isobel - posted on 11/28/2010

9,849

0

286

ok...straght As might have been a little over the top...but I do believe that they should be evaluated in some way.

[deleted account]

Oh, I absolutely agree that totally raving idiots should not be allowed to teach their child and that the child's right to learn outweighs the parent's right to teach. I just don't agree that testing the educator (as in assuring that every homeschool parent is able to get A's in each subject their child learns) is the way to ensure this. Schoolteachers are 'tested' and yet there are still raving lunatics and worse in the teaching professions. Maybe the ratio is higher in the homeschooling world, I don't know. I do think that better results might be achieved by testing the curriculum and how it is applied, as well as the outcomes for the student. I wish I had more solutions to offer as to how this could be done effectively, but my expertise is a bit lacking in this regard, I don't mind admitting that.

Isobel - posted on 11/28/2010

9,849

0

286

The bigger question to me is that of testing the educator. I know that ALL THE HOME SCHOOLERS HERE ARE VERY INTELLIGENT but let's face it...a lot of people in the world are not, and the scary thing is...they don't know they're not.

Clearly I'm NOT talking about YOU LADIES...but you must agree that totally raving idiots should not be "allowed" to teach their child...the child's right to learn outweighs the parent's right to teach.

[deleted account]

Emma, don't get me wrong. I actually think that the whole you're, your; there, their, they're etc business is a simple concept and an important one to get right. It bugs me every time I see someone get it wrong (especially in printed media/journalism) and it is one of my pet hates. But, I give a little slack on the internet forums because I know people make mistakes, type hurriedly, are doing other things at the same time etc. I don't think that the posts on here are suitable ammunition for someone to use when judging a persons ability to homeschool their child, I think there is a bigger picture. As Krista has said, there are a number of parents who are not cut out for homeschooling despite their best intentions; but their ability to structure a grammatically correct and 100% correct spelling COM's post should be a minor concern when assessing that. I also think it hypocritical to pick at someone else's errors when it is entirely possible (and especially when it IS the case) that you (*general you*) may have made similar errors.

Stifler's - posted on 11/28/2010

15,141

154

604

I'm concerned that people think it's okay to not always get you're, your and there, their and they're correct. It's a grade 4 concept, not that hard.

Krista - posted on 11/28/2010

12,562

16

847

Fiona, you have a good point, but I think the larger point that I was trying to make is that some parents, despite their best efforts, just are not cut out for homeschooling.



I am not suggesting that a homeschooling parent needs to be a genius. However, nor do I believe that a child is well served by being educated by someone whose own education has major gaps. I don't know about teaching requirements in the U.S., but in my area, most teachers have a four-year undergrad degree (or more), followed by a two-year Bachelor's of Education degree (or more). A friend of mine teaches math and science at the local high school. He has his Master's in Physics as well as his Master's in Education. I'm relatively well-educated, but I'm certainly not going to fool myself into thinking that I could teach math or science just as well as he does. And I'm DEFINITELY skeptical of the idea that someone who does not know basic 6th grade grammar would be able to provide a child with an excellent education.



Anyway, I suppose I'm digressing from the original question. Do I think that parents have a right to educate their kids in any way they see fit? Yes and no. I think that parents have the right to choose whatever methodology works best for their child. But I do not think that parents should have the right to arbitrarily pick and choose what subjects their kids should learn. There need to be certain benchmarks that the child must reach every year, in order for the parent to be allowed to continue teaching. I think it is doing a child a major disservice to neglect their education in math, or science, or what-have-you, just because it's something in which YOU'RE not interested.

Jodi - posted on 11/28/2010

2,694

52

175

"... right there we have 30% of the population who should definitely not even be considered for homeschooling. "
Can I just say, that many of these children probably attended pre-school or 4 year old kindergarten, THAT teacher should have been teaching them to count and learn their ABC's and tie their shoes and what not. Also, the parents of that 30% obviously didn't homeschool, maybe because they knew they weren't capable to do it, maybe because it never occured them, maybe because it just wasn't important that THEY be the ones to teach their children. I know many many many homeschooling parents personally, and we all (that we is for the parents I know and myself, not every single homeschooling parent in the universe) put our children's education first, which is why my 22 month old knows half of her alphabet, the sounds those letters make, can count to 5, knows all of her shapes (including pentagon, octagon and hexagon), colors and so much more. The majority of homeschooling parents would never (if forced to) send their child to school unprepared. 30% of mainstreamed children are unprepared...show that 30% of homeschooled children are behind or lacking at that age and it might be relevant.

Tah - posted on 11/28/2010

7,412

22

400

@carol. well said. Now, she threw the paper at your head? Are you kidding? Sister Rita, the principal at the catholic school i attended, yelled at me with her finger wagging in my face for something that wasn't my fault. The next morning my mom almost beat the band getting to my school. She walked me every morning and then caught the trolley to work, i had to almost run to catch up with her, lol. All i know is that when she came out the office, sister rita's face was beet red, she apologized and was the sweetest nun ever to me until i graduated..lol

[deleted account]

Yep, so I don't see the point in jumping on each error by each individual who posts here. That is just nitpicking and doesn't really support either side of the debate. Just because they have made errors in their typing doesn't mean they DON'T know the difference. Pointing out the errors in Terri-Lee's post may be relevant because she supports homeschooling and should therefor be able to demonstrate her capabilities with the english language (although I fail to see why COM's is the place she has to demonstrate this), but she did also mention the use of curriculums, homeschool supports and tutors. So if she was using these things, she would be planning her children's lessons, checking up on their correct progress and seeking assistance where it was evident the kids (or herself as their teacher) need extra help. This debate shouldn't be about any individual on here and their demonstrated ability to homeschool based on the grammatical structure of their posts here (or if it is then it should also be about the parents who support their schooled children by helping them with their homework/assignments etc but also make grammatical and spelling errors in this forum); but really is more about the concept of homeschooling and parental responsibility to achieve and maintain certain standards. This applies to all parents as far as I'm concerned, regardless of the education path they have chosen for their child/ren.

Johnny - posted on 11/28/2010

8,686

26

322

Personally, it concerns me that parents who are unable to post an opinion with perfectly constructed grammar and spelling at all times are teaching their children. I would not choose to teach my own child because I do not feel I can measure up to the skills and abilities of most of the teachers in my local school system.

I'm not sure how terrible it is where the rest of you live, but I rarely encountered incompetent educators during my time in public school. On the two occasions that this happened, my parents assisted me in dealing with the issue.

The first time was in grade 3, when the regular teacher went on long-term sick leave and her substitute was a twit. After two months, they requested that I either be moved from the class, placed in supplemental learning annex, or the teacher be replaced. Enough parents had complained - not all public school parent's are too lazy to care about the eduction their children receive - and the school principal spoke to the school board and had him replaced with a good teacher.

The second time it happened, I was in grade 9 English. She was unprofessional, uninterested, repeatedly tardy and unprepared. My parents challenged me to learn the curriculum and prove I could do better than she did. I asked questions, pressed for information, admittedly egged on my fellow students to do the same, and read up on the material being covered. The teacher HATED me. When I received a 98% on the final exam (graded by the head of the department), she was enraged and actually threw the paper at my head. It was the best mark I received in school ever, and I was extremely proud of myself. It boosted my self-esteem greatly and I learned a great deal. When I was re-assigned to her classroom in Grade 11, my parents finally complained, reminded the principal of the previous incident, and I was placed in another classroom. Once was enough.

I am not concerned in the slightest about what will happen with my child in public school. Like myself, she will learn the lessons that it offers, both academically and in life. Dealing with bad teachers, bullies, the stupid kid beside you, the kid who you are partnered with who can't speak a word of English besides 'fuck'. All of those experiences prepared me for life. If I had been at home with my mom teaching me, who was herself an elementary school teacher until I was born, I would never have developed those skills.

I'm sure that many kids thrive academically in the homeschool environment. If the parents are cautious and conscientious about their social development, I have no doubt that they will learn the same lessons I did. I do think that the parents who can succeed are much fewer than those who try. Regulation is totally necessary to prevent kids from falling through the cracks.

There are plenty of kids who suffer from parental neglect, educational neglect and societal neglect in our schools as well. I mentioned in a previous post that our school system is trying to deal with the fact that 30% of students entering kindergarten are not prepared. By that, they mean that they can not follow simple instructions, are incapable of dealing with situations through independent thinking (need Mommy too much) and don't know even 10 letters and can not count to 3. If 30% of parents can not even handle imparting any of that information into their preschool children, right there we have 30% of the population who should definitely not even be considered for homeschooling. At least when these kids go to school, they get some help and have some hope.

To finish off, if I were to discover that my child's teacher was not able to handle the difference between there, their, and they're or spelled "suing" as "sewing" I'd be complaining to the school board and the principal that day. Completely unacceptable.

Tah - posted on 11/28/2010

7,412

22

400

i am not talking about people who make typing errors, i myself am frequently in awkward positions while typing or in a rush. i more often than not, go back read and edit. right now i am leaning on the kitchen counter making plates for dinner, so i type, spoon, type...lol. Bad i know, but the difference is that i know i made a typing error, if you don't know it's wrong because you don't know the difference, i think that needs to be evaluated.

Rosie - posted on 11/28/2010

8,657

30

321

i think there is too fiona. i believe we are talking about people that DON'T know the difference.

[deleted account]

I still think there is a difference between knowing the difference between there and their (for example) and getting it right all the time when typing. Should a homeschool parent get it right everytime just because they have taken control of their child's education? Maybe some people think so. So what then of a parent who sends their child to school but also makes grammar and spelling mistakes in posts on internet forums? Should they not be considered equipped to assist their child with their english homework or not be allowed to proof-read their child's assignments?

Tah - posted on 11/28/2010

7,412

22

400

@Krista...exactly..so where do the homeschooled children trasfer to when mom is the one that doesn't know the difference between those words. I am not against homeschooling, i do think the one teaching should have a clue.

Isobel - posted on 11/28/2010

9,849

0

286

In fact, I dropped a class this term on Globalization because the prof said her specialty was Political Science and then wrote the word Europeons on the board...I had to go. Sometimes spelling is indicative of bigger problems.

Krista - posted on 11/28/2010

12,562

16

847

Sharon has a point -- if you put your kid in a public school, and found out that the teacher did not know the difference between "there", "their" and "they're", or if she thought that "suing" was spelled "sewing", or that "paid" was spelled "payed"...would YOU want that teacher teaching your child?

I wouldn't.

Join Circle of Moms

Sign up for Circle of Moms and be a part of this community! Membership is just one click away.

Join Circle of Moms