HOT SAUCE MOM CHARGED!!! WOOHOO!

~♥Little Miss - posted on 08/24/2011 ( 74 moms have responded )

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http://news.yahoo.com/woman-convicted-ch...


When I read about this originally, I was pissed! I am glad she is being charged, and even though her own dumbass exposed herself on national TV! I think she deserves a heavier punishment though.

MOST HELPFUL POSTS

Lady Heather - posted on 08/24/2011

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Yeah, I think it's a little weird that the producers told her they needed a tape of the actual punishment for her to get on the show. They basically told her to abuse him so she could film it. Isn't that just a tad bit wrong? I guess it's just not sensationalist enough to have her tell her story. We all have to watch some horrifying footage of a kid being tortured. yay tv!

Jodi - posted on 08/30/2011

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Janessa, have you actually SEEN that footage of the hot sauce and ice cold showers? Are you fucking kidding me????? Common sense would tell anyone that THAT was abuse. Jesus......

Angela - posted on 08/30/2011

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When I saw this episode on Dr. Phil I broke down and cried. It really shook me up. I have not any sympathy for that woman and glad she was charged.

My father and mother were both abusive to my brother and I. I have never and will never do such form of abuse and call it discipline! I will call anyone out on it too. It is wrong period.

My father use to do the hot sauce on my brothers fingers and in his mouth to get him to stop sucking them...it was awful. I can still hear his cries of agony. She got off too easy in my book.

She did not have any emotion on the show that I could see... She really gave me the creeps.



I want to add that I do agree we need to help and support parents that are having diffulculties with their children adopted or not. But when they are doing abuse they should not be near the child.

I wish people had the same sympathy for the child and would help them! An abused child suffers for life...it does not just go away and that is a terrible sentence, she gets help and support etc. and I can't see how the show helped anyone really.

I feel if you commit child abuse you should be proven to be able to not do it again before you have your kids in that home.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 08/30/2011

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You are right Becky, you never know what kind of baggage ANY child is gonna have through adoption. But that is a chance most adoptive parents are willing to take. Hell, you don't know what problems your OWN child are going to have. Putting hot sauce in a childs mouth for discipline, or cold showers simply because they are difficult is not acceptable reasoning.

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Sherri - posted on 08/31/2011

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@Marina I certainly have never done cold showers or hot saucing. Although I am not one that thinks hot saucing is abuse it just isn't something I would personally do.



I have however, put soap in my older ones mouth when they were younger. However, I no longer do and have learned better ways that work better for us. With that being said though I don't think that is abuse either, even though it isn't something I opt to do anymore.



The showers though without question is definitely abusive in my opinion.

Angela - posted on 08/31/2011

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I do not disagree that parents who do a one time slap or something could get help. The issue I have with this woman is it was not a one time ordeal, the father was a witness and so were the entire family. But the father was an adult and NOTHING was done as far as seeking help except for filming herself and going to Dr. Phil!
Too many children die and suffer at the hands of adults for me to justify that it is okay and worry of the parent. I worry for the child first and the parent last. I support help to any parent but I just can not see leaving a child in a home like that. I know the child had attachment disorder but then go seek help for it.
I have snapped with yelling a few times in my parenthood to my children and felt awful for doing so!
In fact when my girls were younger and I was young I did seek help BEFORE I snapped so bad I would hurt them. I went to the school social worker and she gave me so great help! I just can't justify leaving a child in this womans care or the father.
Of course their are exceptions and variables this is people but overall I feel these abusive parents do little to help themselves and their children until it is too late.
Coming from a history of child abuse and seeing my brother abused I am a bit biased maybe. But my parents never have paid the price for their abuse as much as we kids did and still do.

Karla - posted on 08/30/2011

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To Janessa’s comment: "I do not think the hot sauce was that bad and I think she would be getting help to deal with her crazy adopted son.”

This is exactly the kind of comment that makes this “debate” very difficult for me.

I think as a parent one needs a strong amount of sympathy for their child. If a parent cannot relate to their child or their child’s behaviors and find them-selves wanting to put (blistering) hot sauce in their child’s sensitive 7 y.o. mouth, and wanting to put their child into a freezing cold shower then that parent definitely needs help relating to their child BEFORE they commit such acts. Come on now – do you remember how sensitive your skin and senses were when you were a child? Would you do that to your cat or dog? It’s simply inhumane.

At the risk of being annoying, I will repeat my previous statement; never under any circumstances "punish" a person by putting something in their mouth - it is much too dangerous.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 08/30/2011

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Don't worry Becky, I was just telling you as an adult who was adopted as a child and who remembers parts of my brother's adoption I know there is some support for adoptive parents. One of my friends was adopted when he was 12 and has Apsagers ( I can't spell it) I don't know for sure, but I would hope his father was given adaquate background info.

Janessa - posted on 08/30/2011

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I do not think the hot sauce was that bad and I think she would be getting help to deal with her crazy adopted son. The Russians lie about those kids all the time I have seen many adoptd parents that were lied to about kids health and what they were exposed to. The lady was just trying to get help and she didn't know how she should not be in jail but parenting class to know how to deal with her troubling son.

Becky - posted on 08/30/2011

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Oh I totally agree, Megan and Marina. I was definitely not trying to defend her actions! Just saying there is support for adoptive families, because there is a good chance they will need it! She should have sought that out before it got to the point it did. Children with attachment disorders (I believe the article said this child was diagnosed with reactive attachment disorder) are extremely difficult children and often don't respond to "normal" methods of discipline. It is pretty much essential for any parent who is adopting a child with this issue to have help and support from an expert in the area. I have seen many adoptions break down due to it. It's very sad.



I have not and would not ever use hot sauce, hot peppers or anything of that sort as discipline. My parents used to wash my mouth out with soap for bad language, but I wouldn't use that either. I've heard of people putting ketchup and mustard in their kids' mouths as discipline, which I guess is a little less extreme, but my kids love both of those, so I don't see how that would be discipline! They'd eat only condiments for dinner if I let them!



Angela, I have to disagree with you, to an extent. I certainly agree that children should not be left in chronically abusive households, or in homes where they are being severely physically abused. However, there are times when normally good, loving parents reach a breaking point, maybe because of extreme stress in their lives or PPD, and do something they would normally never dream of doing- haul off and slap their child across the face, spank until they leave bruises, leave the house and leave their child alone... If a parent seeks help for this on their own immediately, I don't think their child should be removed. Do you know how many parents that would discourage from seeking help, which would allow the situation to get much worse?? They should be monitored for a period of time, definitely. Yes, they should have gotten help before they got to that point, but sometimes people don't recognize how close they are to snapping before it's too late. Or fear, shame, etc, prevent them from doing so. Again, I'm not trying to defend people who abuse their children. Believe me! But I've worked in child protection, and there are just too many variables to say, "it should always be this way, period, no matter what."

Karla - posted on 08/30/2011

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I've been ignoring this whole debate because I find it so disturbing.



Cardinal rule in my family passed down from my mom: never under any circumstances "punish" a person by putting something in their mouth - it is much too dangerous.



We heard a report back in the day (urban legend? not sure) about a parent who attempted to punish a child by pouring pepper down his throat, he inhaled it and was asphyxiated. Sorry for the gruesome story, but it does demonstrate the dangers with mouth-punishment.



Honestly, I can't even imagine thinking mouth-punishment is a good thing to do.



For all the time and energy this woman used to punish this child, she could have spent with a lecture, or a story-style lesson, or even a time out.



And the cold shower - that was done by someone who doesn't remember how painful it is to be freaking-freezing when you were a little kid. Even their inner thermostat is not mature yet.



Can we have mandatory psychology/sociology and child development classes in schools now? Come on folks.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 08/30/2011

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Not me. I don't even spank my daughter unless it's necessary. My husband and I find she reacts better when we threaten take her portable DVD player away. Or other toys that she likes

~♥Little Miss - posted on 08/30/2011

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Just out of curiousity, who in here will say that they HAVE taken this route of discipline? I know there was at least 1 mom in here that has done hot peppers in the mouth. I had a debate with her a while back about it. Who else has done this?

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 08/30/2011

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Becky, trust me I know that. I have bi polar and ADD. My parents also speculate I may have had fetal alcohal syndrome. My brother wasn't easy either, he has ADHD and was skipping school on a regular basis. I understand that you may mean other more serious problem such as autism or apsgers (spelling?) But as a parent you're supposed to be ready to deal with what comes. This woman obviously wasn't ready. I don't knowhy she wasn't interviewed more during the adoption process.

Becky - posted on 08/29/2011

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Megan, adoptions from foster care do tend to receive more support, probably for a couple of reasons. One, they are through the government, so the funding is there, and two, they are perceived to be more challenging than other types of adoption. Which may or may not be true. Children in foster care do come with a lot of baggage, but even an infant placed at birth may have undiagnosed health issues, be genetically predisposed to mental illness, or have been prenatally affected by drugs or alcohol. But here, if you adopt a child from foster care, while your family is no longer monitored once the adoption is finalized in court, financial and other support is available up until the child turns 18. It's a great program, IMO, because like you say, even with an infant, you never know what they are going to face in the future. You might have a healthy, "perfect" child for 5 years and then they start school and all of a sudden, everything turns upside down and you desperately need help.
Anyway, that is off -topic, so I'll stop now.

Becky - posted on 08/29/2011

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I agree, Heather. Dr. Phil is not the first call I would be making if I needed help with my parenting! Maybe a counsellor, my friends at Children's Services, my family dr... but not a TV show! For a person to go to that extent either they have to be truly desperate and have exhausted every option they can think of, or they are attention-seeking or narcisistic.

America3437 - posted on 08/29/2011

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This woman is obviously not able to cope with this child and his behavior so she pours hot sauce in his mouth and throws him in a cold shower and all this for a child she adopted? Bet this poor child wishes she would have just left him where he was! I think she should go straight to jail and if she needs help she can get it there just like every one else there! This was child abuse on so many levels and thanks to Dr.Phil this child has a shot at a normal life... if there is such a thing!

JuLeah - posted on 08/29/2011

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Sending someone to jail might satisfy our need for vengeance, might make US feel better. But, how does it HELP the situation?

If someone robs me for example (take a lot of my money) I don’t need then in jail. I need them to pay back what they took, and for my own piece of mind, need to know they are getting services if services are needed.

So, their ‘punishment’ would be to work until they had paid their debt to me.

How will sending this woman to jail make the world a better place? She will get out more messed up then when she went in, more angry, more punitive, and better able her hide her behaviors.

[deleted account]

Which is why she is allowed to keep her children, and "Dr, Phil's team of experts" are helping her.

Sherri - posted on 08/29/2011

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Yes but the consequences would much better be suited with helping this mom be a better mom. This would help not only her but her children.

[deleted account]

It is, but only different levels of severity. She was abusing her children, which is a crime. Yes, help her so she doesn't do it anymore. She still needs to face the consequences.

Sherri - posted on 08/29/2011

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Yes I see your point but this isn't the same thing. You are comparing apples to oranges.

[deleted account]

If i murdered someone, then went to get help for it because i knew i was doing something wrong, i would still go to jail.

Lynn - posted on 08/29/2011

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I hope all the women who said there was nothing wrong with this behaviour have had second thoughts about that now.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 08/29/2011

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Becky all I remember from my brother's adoption (I was between 4 and 5 at the time) Was someone would come to visit to see how my brother (who was almost a year old at the time) was doing since he was a foster child and my parents were trying to adopt him He also jumped from the landing into the living room while the social worker was there and they still got to keep him. To my knowledge I was never issued a social worker or case worker- of course I was 3 days old when I was brought home.

When you adopt a child- even an infant- there's no way to tell how the child will turn out. Parents adopting an older child need to be aware that this child has been in foster care for a while an may have some problems that need to be addressed.

I don't believe anyone's saying that she shouldn't've been arrested and faced some kind of penalty for what she did to that child. What most of us are saying is that the woman obviously needs help. Of course she could've done better than to try to get on Dr Phil. I'm sure there were plenty of places to go up in Alaska.

Lady Heather - posted on 08/29/2011

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I don't know if she was really trying to "get help" or if she just has some weird mental problem. It seems odd to me that she applied to the show, was rejected and then a looong time later gets called back and she STILL has the problem. If she really wanted help, would she have stopped at being rejected by Dr. Phil? There aren't any other ways to get help with your parenting? I think she just wanted the attention. It doesn't make sense to me that someone seeking help would only look to some television show. Wouldn't be the first place I would go and it certainly wouldn't be the last if I was turned down.

Seems like a bit of a nutter to me. She needs help, but I think there are definite mental issues there. Dr. Phil and his stupid producers should be charged too though just for encouraging that crap and putting child abuse on tv.

Sherri - posted on 08/29/2011

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Well I don't support all her actions Julianne but I do support her and no I am not wrong in doing so. I support her as a mom who needed help looked for it and got slapped in the face for it. Shame on society for not doing more to protect and help her then punish her when she was seeking help. So yes in every way I support her.

Becky - posted on 08/29/2011

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Just because she needs help does not mean she should not be charged. A lot of people who commit crimes need help. That doesn't mean they should not be held responsible for their crimes. If she'd put her child in the hospital with a head injury, no one would be saying, "Oh, she just needs help." People would be screaming for jail time. Abuse is abuse, and while this may seem minor to some, it rarely stops there. Abuse will escalate, and eventually that boy may have ended up in the hospital or worse. Better to take action now. She should receive help, but she should also be held responsible for the abuse.
And yes, her husband should be held responsible for failing to protect him too.

[deleted account]

I don't feel bad for her one bit. She abused her child. She deserves what she gets, you can't plead ignorance.

She is an example for many people. This caused a great debate all over the media, questioning if its ok to hot sauce your children. IT struck up a lot of controversy, so now those who support her know they are wrong as well. Maybe they will learn from her mistakes instead of making their own.

Becky - posted on 08/29/2011

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Adoption agencies only follow-up with a family for a certain period of time after a child is placed in their home, not for the rest of the child's life. Most, here anyway, would have ongoing support available if needed, but the family would need to request it. Plus, a private adoption agency is not a government agency. They can offer support and report concerns, but they cannot remove a child from a home. They may hold some responsibility for not properly checking the family out before adoption or for not properly preparing them for the realities of adopting a child from an orphanege - a lot of people think they're "easy" kids, and they're not! But they weren't necessarily responsible for keeping tabs on the family depending on how much time had passed since the adoption occurred. And didn't the article say they are receiving counselling and monitoring from Children's Services now?

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 08/29/2011

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I agree Sherri. This woman obviously needs help with dealing with her anger. And shame on Dr Phil for making her send in a video tape to prove everything. I remember the episode because he was claiming that he and his producers had nothing to do with the video.

I also agree with JuLeah that it's unfair for the mother to be the only one facing charges when the rest of the family clearly knew about it. And why wasn't a social worker assigned to this case (I didn't hear of one so I don't know if they had one or not) because in adoption cases in the States a social worker is usually appointed to investigate the household and how the child is doing.

Sherri - posted on 08/29/2011

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Feel badly she needs help not punishment. This will accomplish positively nothing to assist with the problem, that she was trying so hard to fix. I feel badly for her as well as her children.

JuLeah - posted on 08/29/2011

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America and the adoption agencies were slammed for a prior incident with another family who had adopted a kid from Russia and sent him back ... so I think action was taken in part because of where the kids came from



I am not sure how this will make a positive difference in the world



People will use more care and not disclose they abuse their kids on Dr. Phil, but how will that actually help children?



She abused her son, had her daughter shoot the video and the twin watch??? Daughter and twin were abused too in my opinion - watching abuse is as damaging as receiving abuse yourself



Not sure how 'punishing' her will help any more then her 'punishing' her son would have ever helped him



She needs education, counseling, mentoring ...She needs parenting skills and maybe a course in empathy



Something is very wrong with a person who abuses a kid to get on a TV show



And where was the father in all of this?? He gets off scott free? Why was he not charged with 'failing to stop abuse'?



Where were the grandparents? The neighbors? The teachers? .... I can't believe this was going on and no one but the mom knew about it.



Everyone who knew and did nothing is just as guilty as the mom



Where was the follow up from the adoption agency?



Many questions needing answered here, but that is not how we do ... we pass the buck, blame others, deny responsibility ... not our problem ... make mom the scapegoat and wash our hands to it and pretend to be shocked when such a thing happens again in another home



AND - Dr. Phil who told her to make the video ... why is he not been charged?

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 08/29/2011

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Jodi, I was quoting from Over the Hedge. The title after the doctorate for his degree means he's a doctor.

Merry - posted on 08/29/2011

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Yeah he's never claimed to be medical, his show is all psychological stuff anyways, dr oz is the med dr :) dr phill I'd pretty smart i say.

Jodi - posted on 08/29/2011

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Megan, he's a psychologist with a PhD in Clinical Psychology, which qualifies him to use the title of Dr. He has never claimed to be a medical doctor (which I assume is what you mean when you say *real doctor*).

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 08/29/2011

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I can't do hotsauce in the first place because I have sensitive skin. Also I find taking away my daughter's portable DVD player to be a much more effective approach.



And that Dr Phil, I doubt he's a real doctor.

Anissa - posted on 08/28/2011

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OMG! your link even says at the end that some ppl consider hot saucing a child not to be a form of abuse!! They should pour hot sauce i their mouths and hold it there! It burns like hell and the longer it's there the worse it is and welts will even form! That is absolutely horrible! I hope she gets the max!

Anissa - posted on 08/28/2011

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Sadly thats not the first time she tried to get on that show.. She tried a year earlier with a written entry but was turned down.. And if she is willing to do that to get on a reality show imagine what her 6 children went through everyday! The child knew what was coming when she asked if he knew what punishment he was going to get for misbehaving, so it wasn't the first time she did something like this.. CNN has a story on it as well.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 08/25/2011

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Oh I remember hearing on Dr Phil she was being charged. Serves her right exposing herself on TV.

[deleted account]

Afraid to watch the vid.Is this the woman who was on DR PHIL?



If it is i am glad.As i feel she needs to be held accountable for her actions.You don't do this kind of stuff.Also this young boy is adopted and came from a fragile background and you treat them like this.Sorry but that is to much to bear.Either way its wrong but personally all i would want to do is protect my son even more.Not cause even more hurt etc.ESP knowing what type of enviorment he came from.

Becky - posted on 08/25/2011

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I'm glad she was charged. That was a very disturbing video. Poor kid! And he had attachment disorder and all she did was make it worse! :( She should have sought out adoption counselling and attachment therapy.
As far as the kids being removed though, I don't agree that that necessarily had to happen. Of course, it's impossible to say what needed to happen without knowing the family. But, if they sought out help, were working cooperatively with the people put in place to help them, and were making positive changes, then the children would not need to be removed. In addition, for a child who already had been adopted and had attachment issues, being removed could have been more traumatic than remaining with a family who was working through their issues.
When I worked in CPS, my office (not me personally) worked with a family who had been on the Dr. Phil show. Not this same family. I can't go into detail because I think I'm still bound by confidentiality even though I don't work there anymore. But it was pretty horrible stuff. The producers of the Dr. Phil show were actually the ones who called us, and Dr. Phil paid for counselling. The family was very cooperative and worked with us very well, and the children were never removed. People can change.

[deleted account]

I watched about a minute of the tape and turned it off because I was crying for the little boy :( I am so glad she got convicted, though I think it horrendous that they're leaving the children in the home! WTF?

Jodi - posted on 08/24/2011

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Oh, and I REALLY hope other parents out there hear of this result, because even on this very site, I've seen mothers state that they can't see why it is abusive and that they do it. Gah!!!

Jurnee - posted on 08/24/2011

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I read somewhere that she actually had her 10 yr old daughter film it. WTF! A 10 yr old, filming her mom abusing her brother, just so disturbing. To me thats tantamount to some type of emotional abuse.

Jodi - posted on 08/24/2011

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"Yeah, I think it's a little weird that the producers told her they needed a tape of the actual punishment for her to get on the show. They basically told her to abuse him so she could film it. Isn't that just a tad bit wrong?"

Yes, I was a bit disturbed by this too......I mean, who films themselves punishing their children? That's just fucked up.

Kellie - posted on 08/24/2011

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More than once I've seen the phrase "they don't have the same issue with the other twin". Might I just remind everyone that different people react differently, and that 'twin" doesn't mean 'same person'.

I can't believe the children aren't being removed from the home :( I hope they monitor her closely now.

Yeah some 'better' life they're providing them...

Merry - posted on 08/24/2011

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Yay!I saw that episode and teared up! Seriously that was awful. Glad she's at least getting some sort of punnishment, although maybe someone needs to use hot sauce in her mouth and then put her in a cold shower!

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