How were these women not all fired???

Mommy - posted on 04/25/2012 ( 27 moms have responded )

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So I came across this on Yahoo today, and it made me cry. I don't know how people who are supposed to care for our children could be so heartless. I also don't know if I could be as composed as this father is telling his son's story. Why in the world would these women not all be fired????

http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/stuart-...

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Jodi - posted on 04/26/2012

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My mother in law is a teacher and I have several aunts and cousins who are teachers, including a few special education. None of them have tenure that I'm aware of. So, tenure might be the norm in areas of the US, but not all. If this had happened in Wisconsin, or at least in my area of Wisconsin, they'd be fire on the spot, even the union here wouldn't back that up!

Jodi - posted on 04/25/2012

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This just makes my heart ache for that little boy. How could anyone talk to a child like that? I don't even talk to other adults like that! Good gravey, if I ran that school they would be out so fast it would make their heads spin! A big round of applause for the dad, can't be easy in his position, but I think he did the right thing, although I think I'd still file a lawsuit.

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I cannot understand her attorney. How can she deny saying it when there is a recording of her saying it? Is this a "who are yougoing to believe? Me or your lying eyes" thing?

Janice - posted on 04/26/2012

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Wow, Jodi I did not know that. In NY the teacher's union is very strong and tenure is the norm, so much so that it is less of something you earn and more an something you expect after 3 years. It seems like it may be the same in NJ where this occurred.



The issues tenure and the union causes are so upsetting. This boy being hurt and the teachers keeping there jobs is just one of many stories I have heard. It is absolutely horrendous that the union has made it so difficult to fire obviously bad teachers.

Janice - posted on 04/26/2012

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Meme Typically a tenure is for college and university professors but it appears some schools also apply this type of job security for it's teachers. Depending on how long they have been teaching.



In the US tenure is the norm for almost all public school teachers. In most states it is granted after only 3 years of teaching. In fact, it is so normal in public schools I had no clue it was originally created for higher education.

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MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 04/27/2012

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Yeah, I agree Jen. It seems kinda ridiculous for her to deny something that plainly has her voice speaking and treating the boy like a piece of crap. I hope she gets what she deserves. The boy is some cute too, the poor little guy. I just don't understand how anyone could hurt a child like that, especially a disabled one. **sigh**

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I wasn't able to get the father's youtube video to play...it kept buffering....grrrr!
But I was able to watch the Good Morning America video towards the bottom and just from the little bit they played of the recording....OMG I'm PISSED!

Those poor kids!

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 04/26/2012

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I'd be getting a lawyer (not to sue) and getting all of their asses fired! I would drag it out as long as needed. This is unacceptable and they need to take responsibility.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 04/26/2012

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Just going by what I have read, which comes directly from the AAUP. I am sure there are some exceptions.

According to the AAUP, it is typically a 7 year probationary period before given a tenure.

Of course I cannot speak for anything other than what I have read from the AAUP, which whom created and statutes the legality behind a tenure.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 04/26/2012

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Tracy-- I provided a link up a couple posts, take a look, it explains it well.

Typically a tenure is for college and university professors but it appears some schools also apply this type of job security for it's teachers. Depending on how long they have been teaching.

It was created in order to allow professors not be fired if they have a different teaching style or they do not agree with how the school wants to apply curriculum or what is in the curriculim. It gives them the ability to teach with their style without being ridiculed or dismissed for going against the grain (so to speak). However, they can be dismissed/fired if there is cause. Typically very serious reasons. The only problem is it can take years and be very costly to do this. So, according to the AAUP only approx. 50-75 professors are fired per year out of approx 300 000.

tenure is associated with more senior job titles such as Professor and Associate Professor. A junior professor will not be promoted to such a tenured position without meeting the goals of the institution, often (though not always including) demonstrating a strong record of published research and academic visibility, teaching, and administrative service, with emphasis different across institutions (though often focused on research in universities). Typical systems (such as the Recommended Institutional Regulations on Academic Freedom and Tenure)[2] allow only a limited period to establish such a record, by limiting the number of years that any employee can hold a junior title such as Assistant Professor. (An institution may also offer other academic titles that are not time-limited, such as Lecturer, Adjunct Professor, or Research Professor, but these positions do not carry the possibility of tenure and are said to be "off the tenure track.")

Academic tenure is primarily intended to guarantee the right to academic freedom: it protects teachers and researchers when they dissent from prevailing opinion, openly disagree with authorities of any sort, or spend time on unfashionable topics. Thus academic tenure is similar to the lifetime tenure that protects some judges from external pressure.[citation needed] Without job security, the scholarly community as a whole might favor "safe" lines of inquiry. The intent of tenure is to allow original ideas to be more likely to arise, by giving scholars the intellectual autonomy to investigate the problems and solutions about which they are most passionate, and to report their honest conclusions.[3] In economies where higher education is provided by the private sector, tenure also has the effect of helping to ensure the integrity of the grading system. Without tenure, professors could be pressured by administrators to issue higher grades for attracting and keeping a greater number of students.

Tracey - posted on 04/26/2012

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First, good for the dad for taking the action he did.
Second, can someone please explain what a tenure is and how this differs to an ordinary teachers job

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screw tenure, if you're unfit to be a teacher then by damn you shouldn't be one! ugh, this makes me sick, i'm glad the one bitch got fired but the others, however many there are, are still out there causing harm to young impressionable children. thank God this father took action against this!

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 04/25/2012

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Revocation



Tenure can only be revoked for cause, normally only following severe misconduct by the professor. Revocation is usually a lengthy[citation needed] procedure.

In 1994, a study in The Chronicle of Higher Education found that "about 50 tenured professors [in the US] are dismissed each year for cause."[7] A study in the Wall Street Journal published January 10, 2005 estimated that 50 to 75 tenured professors (out of about 280,000) lose their tenure each year.[citation needed]

While tenure protects the occupant of an academic position, it does not protect against the elimination of that position. For example, a university that is under financial stress may take the drastic step of eliminating or downsizing some departments.

See also the American Association of University Professors (AAUP) website.[8]




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenure_(academic)



So, they can be dismissed, they just normally aren't because - I would assume - the process is too costly and lengthy.... sigh

Janice - posted on 04/25/2012

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I was aware of the "rubber rooms" but I did not hear about them from Law and order :) I think I ran across info on it while doing research paper for my teaching degree. I did not know that the practice was stopped though. That is good to hear.

Mommy - posted on 04/25/2012

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Side note, I know this child is not emotionally disturbed, but I group him with other vulnerable children, as they need advocates in school, not tormentors.

Mommy - posted on 04/25/2012

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I get so frustrated with this because I provide therapy for emotionally disturbed children, and in school their teachers don't get it. Since they are viewed as the "problem kids" they are either pushed aside or are picked on.

Janice, I don't know if you watch law and order, but there was an episode where they talked about the "rubber rooms" they put the teachers in who are being disciplined. Basically if there was a complaint about a teacher they would put them in these rooms during the entire school day and pay them in full while they were there. I did some research and these were real! They just stopped using them recently, within the last year and a half or so.

Janice - posted on 04/25/2012

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http://www.timesunion.com/default/articl...



I found the article I was looking for. This give a little bit of insight why some districts chose to turn a blind eye. It's terrible that bad teachers cant just be fired.



Meme -My mom was raised that teachers are in a position of authority that you just don't question. My mother and sister hate each other. Its quite sad.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 04/25/2012

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That's terrible Janice. Being a parent of an ADHD child, I do understand the thought of them over-exaggerating but it is still important to look into it, deeply. Your poor sister.

I really have an issue when it comes to children. I don't know what it is but in the past 5 years or so, I have grown very protective of every single one of them. I think it is a hormonal thing my age is putting me through....;)

Janice - posted on 04/25/2012

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I hate reading stories like this. It really gets my blood boiling! Kudos to that boys dad!



The teachers union in NY is really strong too. Teachers that are removed from classrooms often continue to get paid for many years. I have been searching for days for an article printed in the local paper about the union/tenure issue but no luck so far.



My sister's 4th grade teacher was very abusive but the school just let everything go. I wish my mother went to bat but my sister has ADHD and she thought my sister was exaggerating. :(

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 04/25/2012

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Oh my fuck! I am sorry but tenure or not, they would be dismissed by the time I was done with them. I would spend my last dime fighting the school board. This makes me so pissed, I am sick!

These poor babies. I cannot imagine it being my child. I would seriously kick some ass. How fucking sad - it makes me cry!

At least Jodi was fired. She led the group. Tenure didn't help her much.

Mommy - posted on 04/25/2012

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I know...I don't know where you ladies live, but here in NJ, which is where this happened, the teachers get tenure. And short of killing or raping a student, they will not be able to get fired. They just transfer them and put a note in their record. It's such beaurocratic crap. The poor boy must have felt so scared and frustrated having to face that everyday.

Lacye - posted on 04/25/2012

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Oh wow! That poor child! Those women should not be allowed to teach at any school, EVER! I can't imagine treating any child like that. No wonder the poor boy was acting out. Those women got off way too easily.

Kaitlin - posted on 04/25/2012

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Wow- forget fired, they deserve to have their licenses revoked and to be black balled. You can't treat a child like that- you shouldn't treat ANYONE like that, let alone a child. They need to be in a very, very different field.

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