I REFUSE to do it again this year!

Jackie - posted on 12/15/2010 ( 111 moms have responded )

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So, we've all had the "religion" discussion many many times but here is my dilemma...



Jon and I have been together for almost 6 years and Allison is almost 2. Well, my birthday is Christmas Eve and Jon's family's tradition is to do the Christmas thing on Christmas Eve night, which is fine by me, I guess. My family always kind of made an effort to separate the two. Well, I'll be 28 this year so birthdays just aren't that important to me anymore really. What's more important is celebrating Christmas with family. But that's not the real dilemma...



They are all fairly religious (his side of the family) and they ALL do midnight services on Christmas Eve night. I've always gone because I don't want to cause an argument with Jon and I. I never really came out to his family about how I feel about Christianity because they are all really great people and I don't want to offend anyone. But over the last year or so, I've spoken to members of his family about where I stand and for the most part, they're not very judgmental... at least not to my face.



Well, I am absolutely putting my foot down this year. I am NOT going to church @ midnight on my birthday. After all, it IS my birthday and if I don't nip-it-in-the-bud now, I will be expected to have Christmas Eve revolve around their beliefs forever!



If Jon wanted to go and take Allison, I wouldn't have a problem with that because what would it hurt. But, it's midnight and I'm not cool with taking her out of her bed in the middle of the night in the freezing cold to go to church!



So what do you think? how do I tell them that I'm not going without causing a big stink?

MOST HELPFUL POSTS

Mary - posted on 12/16/2010

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Sweet God in heaven, I cannot, in my wildest dreams, imagine taking my 2 y/o to midnight mass. I AM Catholic, and there is no way in hell I would do that to her (or me!). No offense to your in-laws, but I think that is just ludicrous, and cruel thing to do to a 2 y/o.

My opinion, however, is really rather immaterial to your situation. What matters is what you and Jon want, and can agree to between you. I think this is actually the perfect year to address it. Last year, she was still little enough that her sleep may have been more erratic, and she could have even slept through the service. At close to two, it is going to wreak havoc on her sleep, and I can only imagine she will be a holy terror both at the service, and the next day as well. I think that Jon needs to tell his family that midnight services are a no-go for at least the next 10 years.

We all have our family traditions that we grew up. However, as we age, and our families expand with both significant others and children, those traditions HAVE to change to encompass everyone. If they don't, resentments and family rifts develop.

Talk with Jon. Decide amongst yourselves what traditions you want to start for YOUR family, and figure a way that still includes his family in the holiday, as well as some type of special something for your birthday. They will be disappointed - and that is to be expected. Change is hard. However, if you are as kind as possible, without being confrontational, it should smooth itself out (unless they are completely selfish assholes) over the next year or so.

Sharon - posted on 12/15/2010

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Its important to their religion. The midnight mass doesn't seem to have hurt my hubby at all.

people find plenty of reasons why their kids should be allowed to stay up late.

If you're going to allow her to be brought up in their religion then you need to allow this.

Standing on the shallow precipice that "she needs her sleep" won't wash because then you're saying what they did all those years was to abuse their kids.

Natasha - posted on 12/18/2010

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Cheryl, I do not find it offensive that you believe in the Bible, I am a Christian. I think that the tone in which you "spoke" was offensive, not the words of the Bible. I do understand the Bible and my question to you was in no way directed to the verses that you quoted. It was directly to your tone and interpretation of those verses. YOU, not the Bible, seemed to come off as judging.

Also, this post was not about if her beliefs were more important than her husbands, but how to explain to his family that she will no longer be attending the midnight mass ceremony after years of doing so. I do actually think that in your last post you said something that is helpful ,"his Christian-ish traditions are no more valuable than hers, so she does not have to consider them more highly (or holy just because a church service is involved) than her own and should feel free to negotiate" (although I have a personal issue with the "Christian-ish" title, as it makes it appear that since his beliefs do not line up with yours (which you do not know to be true or not) that it means his are "wrong" and yours are "right".) I would gladly debate the merits of differing Christian opinions in another, more appropriate, conversation, but I honestly do not think that this is what this thread is about.

Natasha - posted on 12/17/2010

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Cheryl, your post is kind of offensive. My husband and I do not share the exact same beliefs, and my religious views have changed since we got married. Are you saying that because of this, I should no longer be married to my husband? I still love him and care for him and think that God has no problem with us being who we are. And if you read Jackie-Rae's posts she admits that her views have also changed in the last year.

What her religious views are doesn't have a whole lot to do with the help that she is asking for. I would assume that Jon knows how Jackie-Rae feels and what she believes. And saying that because she is a non-believer (which she never actually stated) makes her selfish makes you judgemental. I am pretty sure it states in the bible not to judge others, lest you be judged yourself. Just saying maybe you should follow all the rules.

Laura - posted on 12/16/2010

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Kati, please don't say ALL the Christians are saying what she's doing is wrong. There are a few who are being judgemental but some are not. I love being a christian and I love midnight mass. I HATE getting lumped in with the people who don't really follow christian principals of accepting people and forgiveness. Please just think before you start throwing around words like ALL. Thank you.

111 Comments

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Dana - posted on 12/18/2010

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Christina, thanks but, I grew up in the church. You can believe what you want to believe, I'll believe what I believe.

Tah - posted on 12/18/2010

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I don't think that the post was offensive, i think it stated what she, and I for that matter, beleive as far as being christians and marrying people who may not believe as you do and the problems that arise from that. I think it does have some to do with the post even though it wasn't the specific question just because jackie does mention that not only is christmas eve her b-day, but she doesn't want it to revolve around their beliefs and apparently she thought an argument would result with her husband so she has gone along with it. I do see many cases where the fact that those involved do not have the same beliefs or convictions have areas in their lives where problems arise, like how to raise the children, which holidays to celebrate etc.



I said in my original post i was glad that my husband and I were on the same page with our beliefs so that this isn't a problem. I can see where she is coming from with her response about the non-believer being governed by self. People who don't believe that Jesus is Lord do what they want to do, and i'm not being judgemental, it is true, i don't mean that they go out and kill or don't have any morals, i don't believe that, but when i was living with my ex-fiancee without being married, it was a problem for me, when i had 2 children out of wedlock, i knew and believed what the bible said about that being a sin also, as with other things in my life. person's who don't believe as I do will do things that make them happy with no regard for having to answer to God for anything they say, do or believe. I think that's what she meant by that, and it does go hand and hand with the part about the value by which the partner's traditions are held. I hope i made sense...lol, I also hope that Jackie can figure it out as well



One thing i learned on here is not to take everything so personally, christians can be put through the ringer or lumped into one big pile on here sometimes. I know we are not to judge, and i think sometimes when people challenge things that we do in our lives and deem to be right for us, we get offended. Try not to take it as a personal attack as everyone has their own views around here and are not shy about stating them.

Jackie - posted on 12/18/2010

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"The point was this, since the mate does not obey the bible, his Christian-ish traditions are no more valuable than hers, so she does not have to consider them more highly (or holy just because a church service is involved) than her own and should feel free to negotiate"

That kinda makes sense

C. - posted on 12/18/2010

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@Dana.. "I do not believe for one second that God would not want you to marry someone who didn't believe in him."



Go ahead and believe that, by from what I remember from church, it is talking about that. God doesn't want believers to be married to non-believers. Being unequally yoked, you run the risk of either your faith weakening, or being lost altogether b/c there is someone constantly there 'bringing you down' spiritually.

Cheryl - posted on 12/18/2010

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I my self did not judge, the judgement and the offense came from the Bible. The point was this, since the mate does not obey the bible, his Christian-ish traditions are no more valuable than hers, so she does not have to consider them more highly (or holy just because a church service is involved) than her own and should feel free to negotiate. I am not sorry when people are offended by bible verses, most people these days have no clue what is in the bible. As far as the author of the text being dead, he is not.

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right.

Those that call themselves Christian ought to be in the word of God to keep themselves walking in His ways. One of you asked if you should leave your husband because he is a non believer,

the bible says

1 Corinthians 7:12-16 (New International Version, ©2010)

12 To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13 And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. 14 For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.



15 But if the unbeliever leaves, let it be so. The brother or the sister is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. 16 How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?

As I said before, these are not my words, but I do believe the bible is true. If the Debating Mums does not want to have a bible view in the "debate" because it is too "offensive" I will not violate this space again.

Jackie - posted on 12/17/2010

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"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? And what communion hath light with darkness?"

Are you saying that Jon is the "light" and I am the "darkness". Hmph. hahaha, sorry, if someone that said that to me that really knew us, I would laugh in their face.

Dana - posted on 12/17/2010

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Well, contacting a psychic would just be a sin, now you're proposing double duty evilness.

Jackie - posted on 12/17/2010

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"Any one who has an objection to the terms righteousness and unrighteousness, or light and darkness needs to take that up with the author."

The author being a man that died many centuries ago? How would I go about contacting him? Know of any good psychics?

Dana - posted on 12/17/2010

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Is that passage not referring to idolatry? I do not believe for one second that God would not want you to marry someone who didn't believe in him.

And yes, excuse my misspelling.

Jackie - posted on 12/17/2010

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"The non believer is governed by self, what makes me happy, what seems reasonable to me. Two people are not necessarily headed in the same direction, and in fact, whose focus will either be on one or the other or the relationship most likely after time will dissolve. "



I'm not sure where you were going with this. Jon and I relationship was never based on religion. He's a "believer" but not devout. And just because I'm a non-believer does not mean, and never will mean, that I'm a selfish person. In fact, I'm am very selfless for the most part. I never ever think of me, myself, and I first. Allison is always #1.



Our relationship is no more at risk because of God than it would be if one of us were eaten by a shark.

Cheryl - posted on 12/17/2010

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The yoke (spelled correctly for this use) of sin. We were yoked with sin but the advice regarding business and marriage was New testiment.



"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? And what communion hath light with darkness?" (2 Cor. 6:14, KJV).



Any one who has an objection to the terms righteousness and unrighteousness, or light and darkness needs to take that up with the author.

Cheryl - posted on 12/17/2010

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Since you have expressed that your beliefs are not Christian, the problem lies on your baby's father's shoulders.

The bible clearly told him to not be unequally yoked. The author used this metaphor as a word picture to describe the way a Christian was to engage him/herself in business and marriage.

In the day this was written, it refferred to animals being tied together or "yoked". You wanted animals the same size pulling the weight. Christians are not to marry, have sex outside of marriage or become partners in business with non believers. These types of divisive situations are bound to arise.

The purpose of Christian marriage is the joining together of two people who both are going in the same direction, towards God, and so on their journey, they get closer and closer.

The non believer is governed by self, what makes me happy, what seems reasonable to me. Two people are not necessarily headed in the same direction, and in fact, whose focus will either be on one or the other or the relationship most likely after time will dissolve.

The Christian-ish are those who take their belief system lightly and disobey scripture, or are those who only are involved for the social bonding aspect and pleasure of family tradition but don't really take the scriptures seriously, becoming equally yoked with the non believer. Their traditions then become only as valid as the traditions of their mate.

The time for negotiating this is not now. The time for negotiating is after the holiday for next year, if what you want to do is keep peace between you and your mate.

He may not want to talk about it. In that case you will need to let him know what your plan of action is for next year.

I wish you well.

C. - posted on 12/17/2010

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Laura, you misunderstood. I never said Jackie said it was impossible. I said everyone else was arguing that it was impossible. I even specifically stated that Jackie said she just didn't WANT to. Everyone else was giving excuses and I was just explaining to them that it can be done. I never said it HAD to be done. Just stating that it was possible b/c so many people thought it wasn't. Make sense now??

Isobel - posted on 12/17/2010

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I don't think she said it was impossible...she said she didn't want to...then she listed all the reasons she didn't want to.

They are perfectly reasonable reason NOT to want to go...so she shouldn't go...and if there's a parent home, why should a two year old be up if they don't have to be?

They don't understand what's going on...they don't care about the mass, in fact, they'll be distracting to all the other people who are there to worship.

Why are you fighting this so hard?

C. - posted on 12/17/2010

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And Dana, don't even say 'Exactly, Mary!'

You played as big of a part as anyone else arguing the point back and forth, so that was kind of.. Um, pointless to say that.

C. - posted on 12/17/2010

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"I really don't see how you don't understand that a holiday and a regular day is not the same. Have you ever hosted Christmas or do you just go to someone else's house?"

I have hosted Holidays before, not just Christmas, and I know they can be stressful. But so was the day after my husband got out here b/c we had so much to do in such a short amount of time. THAT is my point. It's possible regardless of what's going on the next day, really. People are just making every excuse not to.

And yes, she was asking how she should tell them she isn't taking her kid.. BUT, I am saying that the excuses given, were just that- excuses. There's really no point that she can't b/c it is possible, she just doesn't want to. Everyone was saying it wasn't possible! Hence, why we kept arguing, Mary..

Dana - posted on 12/17/2010

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Are you talking to me? I'm not defensive one bit, we're debating.

I really don't see how you don't understand that a holiday and a regular day is not the same. Have you ever hosted Christmas or do you just go to someone else's house?

Mary - posted on 12/17/2010

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Don't mean to interrupt your regularly scheduled bickering, but Jackie wasn't asking if she SHOULD continue taking her toddler to midnight mass, but rather how to tell her in-laws that she ISN'T. Whether or not it is doable is really a moot point.

C. - posted on 12/17/2010

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No, we didn't go to a quiet church, but it was a quiet facility. Everyone was silent while the guys/girls were doing their ceremony. My son included. And just b/c we didn't have a holiday the next day doesn't mean anything at all. We still had to get up early. The fact remains that it is possible to take a 2 year old to a function ONE NIGHT and still have them follow their regular sleep pattern the next day. It's really not that hard, so I don't understand why you're getting so defensive.

And it's not comparable? Um.. Quiet facility, quiet church- both very quiet.. Late at night for a ceremony, late at night for a church function- pretty much the same thing. Just b/c it's not in a church, doesn't mean anything, it's still quiet and a ceremony is still taking place. Had to get up early the next day, got up early for a holiday.. Um.. Where are you not seeing how it's comparable?? I've never known anyone to get up BEFORE 7a on Christmas day unless they had an INFANT. So.. Really, it does make sense. You're just trying to bring every lame excuse to the table. It is possible and really no excuse you bring can prove different. That's all they are- excuses!

Dana - posted on 12/17/2010

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Exactly, your situation is completely incomparable because you didn't have a any holiday the next day, let alone a significant one. Nor did you go to a quiet church with your son for a service at midnight.
Honestly, I don't see how you can see your story as anything comparable at all.

C. - posted on 12/16/2010

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"Christina, her daughter was a baby last year (and an infant I'm assuming) the year before...she could sleep through it then, it is highly unlikely now. As for taking your child to your father's party...you didn't have to face Christmas the next day did you?"



Um, first of all.. It was my SON'S father. Secondly, It wasn't a 'party', it was a coming home ceremony. There is a difference. Thirdly, no we didn't have to face a holiday the next day, BUT we still had to get up early (around 7). Traffic from Honolulu to the Army base can be a nightmare, so we had to get up early enough to beat the traffic just in case. I'm just saying it's a lame excuse b/c you can easily get your child back to their regular sleep schedule. My son is one of the most stubborn kids I know, but he was still able to do it!

Natasha - posted on 12/16/2010

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Hi Jackie-Rae,

My husband and I had a similar issue this year. We always go to his extended families Christmas on Christmas Eve, but this year we have finally told them no. It would not be an issue for us, but we have done it every year for the last 6 years, after going to his Dad's for an immediate family Christmas, then drive the hour up to the extended famliy, then drive a 2.5 hour drive out to my parents so we can be there for breakfast and stockings Christmas morning. Sometimes it's just about making the best decision for your family.

Our son was always so tired by the time that we got out to my parents that he just went to bed and we always followed quickly thereafter.

How we approaced it was to just explain that it is too much for us. We want Christmas to be a fun and stress-free event, and so this year we have decided not to do the extra driving. They took it well, for the most part. There have been a few who are upset and think that we are being selfish, but I know that they are just the type that won't ever be happy with what we do. In your situation, I would explain that going to Midnight Mass is too hard on Allison, and that since you do not share thier beliefs you don't want to continue going. They should understand and respect your decision.

Bonnie - posted on 12/16/2010

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So what, she has been taking part in this tradition for the past 6 years? Things change. Up until now she has had a baby. A baby, in which chances are she would get her daughter up and take her to mass and she would probably sleep right through it. Now she has a toddler. A whole different story. Possibly even going through a bit of the terrible twos. I'm sorry, but I have a 2 year old and although I have never taken my two year old to church at 12am, I know how it would go. Chances are it would not be pretty. Honestly, I don't even know why the family wouldn't even say, "if you want to bring her fine, but honestly, we don't expect it." There is only one thing that 2 year olds should be doing at midnight.

Dana - posted on 12/16/2010

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I can't even imagine bringing Ethan to church. I had a hard enough time getting him to sit still for my nephews k-2nd grade Christmas play, he lasted all of 15 minutes for that and it's fun for a kid!

Mary - posted on 12/16/2010

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She's not old enough yet (it starts at 3), and it's only at the 10:30 mass. My dad ALWAYS goes to the 9am mass. Since my mom died in April, it's been a real source of support for him; that was when they and many of their friends went, so it's a bit of social thing for him as well.

At some point, I will have to suck it up and do the 10:30 mass with her...I've just been dragging my feet about it.

Mary - posted on 12/16/2010

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Yeah...my (devoutly catholic) dad invited Molly and I to a Breakfast with Santa at our church this Sunday. I asked him if he wanted us to go to mass with him (he's struggling a bit right now since these are our first holidays without my mom). I thought we could see how she did with the 9am mass, since there is a huge outer lobby she could run around in if it got ugly.

My dad just looked at me and said "No, I don't think Molly is ready for church, and the church isn't ready for Molly. Meet me after mass!"

Lady Heather - posted on 12/16/2010

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I hereby swear on all the is not holy because I don't believe in things holy that I would absolutely 100% not find it cold or selfish if someone I knew decided that they didn't want take part in some traditional thing after six years of taking part in it, especially when I knew it was something relating to a religion they weren't even a part of.



I'm glad my family and even my nutso inlaws would be more understanding than that. My goodness.

Jenny - posted on 12/16/2010

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Good point. Fill him of full of sugar, deprive him of sleep and pretend to not notice when he's running up and down the aisles. You'll be gauranteed no invite next year.

Meghan - posted on 12/16/2010

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LMAO, I am actually laughing out loud thinking about how horrible J would be if I woke him up and made him sit in a church 4 hours into his bedtime-that would pretty much guarantee a free pass for years to come.

Vegemite - posted on 12/16/2010

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Wow i don't know why this is such a big deal. You've been going to be respectful and on top of that it's your birthday, everyone should be made to feel special on their birthday. If you don't want to go to midnight mas then you shouldn't have to. I really don't think God is that petty so why should we be. I would not be taking my kids to midnight mas especially during winter and it doesn't even get that cold here.
I would just tell them that you wont be going for a couple of reason's one being you want to celebrate your birthday, maybe they could come over for some of that. The other as Allison's mother you don't think it's a good idea to take her out of her bed in the middle of the night into the cold. You'd rather you both got a good sleep so everyone can have a fun and happy Christmas day.

Mary - posted on 12/16/2010

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Kati, I'm not offended, but that's probably because I'm a Catholic, and many "Christians" would tell you that doesn't count ;-) Of course, I also have yet to take my daughter to church, because at her age, what would be the point? We struggle with storytime at the library some weeks, and that's only a 1/2 hour. The though of trying to get her to be reasonably still and quiet during an hour+ long mass makes me flat our nauseous.

Jenny - posted on 12/16/2010

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I feel for you Jackie. Things always get dicey in the family when religion is involved. I agree with those who said just be straight up. You don't need excuses, you're an adult. My father's side of the family is German Mennonite, I finally asked my Grandma to stop sending me religious forwards as I am an athiest. She still sends me jokes and other stuff but has remained respectful of my wishes and doesn't do it with the kids either. It will take a firm, loving stance but I'm sure they'll get over it.

Becky - posted on 12/16/2010

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Hey, I don't think she's horrible for going to church when she doesn't believe, or for not going if she doesn't want to! There are plenty of people who don't believe but go to church on Christmas and Easter just to appease their families, or for whatever reason. My brother is Agnostic and comes to church on Christmas Eve when he's visiting us because it's important to my mom. There are also lots of Christians who don't go to church regularly for whatever reason. There's no law regarding who can, can't, or has to attend church, and when!
Mary is totally right about things changing as your kids get older. Our oldest's first Christmas, we went to my sister's on New Year's Eve and stayed till midnight, and it was fine, because he would sleep anywhere. This year, with a 2 1/2 year old and 1 year old, we'll be home and have them in bed well before midnight! I agree, with an almost 2 year old, now is the perfect time to change things up if she wants to!

Rosie - posted on 12/16/2010

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well the only ones bugging her about it on this thread ARE christians. funny how atheists aren't going bat shit crazy about her taking her kid to church....



edited to add: i didn't mean EVERY christian that posted the thread, i was saying every person griping about it IS a christian, therefore ALL the people crying about it are christian.

Kate CP - posted on 12/16/2010

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"how about telling them the truth, the truth is you don't want to go because you don't believe as they do, you alreasy said that it wouldn't hurt to take the baby, so that's not the problem..be honest, they are going to feel how they feel, i am glad that my husband and I are on the same page about our beleifs so that this doesn't have to be an issue.."

I agree with Tah. Just tell them you want a break from going to midnight mass. There's been times when my family has a certain tradition and I'm just tired of it. So I tell them "I'm not feeling up to it. Can we do something else or maybe next year I'll do it/go?" Family should be understanding and loving regardless of what you choose to do for Christmas.

If Jackie doesn't want to go she doesn't have to go. She's a big girl and can make decisions for herself.

Rosie - posted on 12/16/2010

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seriously, it's bugging me too. it's been bugging me ever since my thread about religion and people wondering why i let my kid go to a christian preschool. maybe it's cause i don't think it's gonna hurt him to learn his ABC'S with jesus, lol!

why the fuck should jackie have to explain why she's doing what she's doing?why are all the christians acting like her going to church is so god awful? i don't get it. she wants help to figure out how to tell her family no, nicely, that's it. she doesn't need the third degree about why she went all these years. i'm simply baffled at how christians are deeming a somewhat new atheist/agnostic (which is a very confusing, LONG process for some by the way) going to church is just horrifying. she's figured things out now, and wants to move forward. GAH!!!

Dana - posted on 12/16/2010

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Jackie, I think what you're saying is rather reasonable and I wish you luck, it's great to hear that your husband is also reasonable! :)

Laura - posted on 12/16/2010

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Ok so I only read the first page of responses but here is my opinion as some one who grew up catholic loving midnight mass. If you don't want to go you shouldn't have to. I don't think your hubby needs to take your daughter right now because she would probably sleep through it anyway and wouldn't be able to appreciate it. My father was not catholic but made an effort to come with us on special holidays unless it was midnight mass or the 3hr (yes 3 hr) Easter mass. My mom and family was ok with that. They knew what it was going to be like when they got married.



If you and your husband want to incorporate his religion in your daughters life (because it does need be both of you choices) then I don't see a problem with waiting a couple of years until she can really understand and respect it.



Good luck to you but remember it can't just be your decision, she is your daughter but she is also your husbands. You both need a say. Merry Christmas and Happy Birthday :)

Jackie - posted on 12/16/2010

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Well, I really don't have time to address everything right at this moment but I do need to address something..

I have not been "living a lie!" As I mentioned earlier, I haven't really been very vocal on my stance because I really wasn't sure what my stance was. I always kind of felt it deep down though. Also, as I said before, I've taled to some of his family in the last year about how I felt about it and that's why I feel that this would be a good time stop doing something that I'm not entirely comfortable with. I've never felt like church was a horrible thing so I went before, although I often wondered if a candle or a crucifix would fall on me when I walked in.

Last year, yes, Allison was an infant so she was able to sleep but this year, not so much, And I also said she ALMOST 2, so this is her second christmas, Christina.

I agree that Jon and I should really have a sit down and discuss it. He will agree with me that we shouldn't take Allison out that late but I think it's time that everyone knows that I don' think I'll be going in years to come, for the most part. Not to say never, though because if Allison wants to go when she gets older, I'll go.

I'll be back

Isobel - posted on 12/16/2010

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a)I don't know what I missed but what are "all the ff's"?

b) fuck ALWAYS makes sense ;)

c)Christina, her daughter was a baby last year (and an infant I'm assuming) the year before...she could sleep through it then, it is highly unlikely now. As for taking your child to your father's party...you didn't have to face Christmas the next day did you?

Doreen - posted on 12/16/2010

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I'd just apologize to Jon's mother one side personally for not being able to make it for the midnight service - and just say it's my birthday and I am spoiling myself tonight (invite some friends for dinner or your mom for a girls night) and just say "I am putting Allison to bed early and add you have thought and it is just too cold and she doesn't understand the point of the service just yet anyway". If Jon wants to go - let him. If he wants to take Allison, let him if he absolutely insists... but tell him to consider that she doesn't yet understand it and you respect and understand the fact that it is tradition but she is still too young and it is your birthday. Honesty is the best for you guys - don't stress and don't be forceful just say it as it is with love and respect towards all of them. I think they will understand. A good idea is ask the mom to give everyone that is coming this bookmark/candle with a lovely message on and apologize on your behalf... or if everyone goes to her after or before church give her a box biscuits to put out, that should get you in the clear.

Mary - posted on 12/16/2010

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Christina, I think I pointed out why I think this is actually the BEST time to change things up. Prior to Allison's arrival in the family, it wasn't a huge deal for Jackie to sacrifice her birthday/Xmas eve for the sake of family harmony. However, things change once a little one enters the picture. I see where she did it last year; I was able to do things with Molly at less than a year that she would never tolerate now, especially if involves screwing up her sleep. As well, sometimes you learn from your mistakes. She tried midnight services last year with her, and figured out it was not the right thing to do, and is not willing to repeat that error.



As for Jackie's stance on Christianity...well, it may not be easy, but at some point she is going to have to have some honest discussions with her in-laws, because I am guessing that they probably are expecting their grandchild to be raised in their faith. Even if Jackie is okay with Jon doing that on his own, it will eventually become obvious that this is something she is not actively participating in. Although I might not tackle this (entire) issue right before the holidays, at some point in the near future it is going to need to be addressed.



Life goes on, and people change. Part of being family is learning to accept the changes in each other, and loving each other in spite of those changes. It makes perfect sense to me that what was not a big deal for the past six years is now something that needs to be adjusted as the family dynamics have changed.

C. - posted on 12/16/2010

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That's fine, Dana. I'm getting ready to go to sleep anyway. But I'm just saying that it is possible and it doesn't necessarily mean a cranky baby when it's all said and done. I just think that's one lame excuse.

Dana - posted on 12/16/2010

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Well, I've made my point, I'm not going to bicker back and forth about it.

C. - posted on 12/16/2010

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Uh, it's not really 'lame'.



I dragged my 2 year old out for his Dad's Coming Home Ceremony from deployment.. Guess what?? It didn't start until after midnight!!!! And it lasted at least an hour. He wasn't cranky b/c my mom and I had him take a later nap so he would be able to stay awake for the ceremony and go to sleep as soon as we got to the hotel. And he wasn't cranky the next day, either. He went right back to his normal sleep schedule. It IS possible.



Edited to add: Saying that it isn't possible to do that for one night and be successful in not having a cranky baby.. THAT is lame..

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