l have a few issues with a Australian couple who Aborted twins after a ivf cycle because she wanted a girl. They already have 3 boys. They had a girl that died soon after birth. What do you think?

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[deleted account]

Highly disturbing. :(

When I found out I was carrying twin girls I cried. Some of that was sadness/disappointment cuz I'd never wanted girls, but MOST of my tears were because my babies were ok. I got over the sadness/disappointment factor pretty quick and I couldn't imagine my life w/out them.

Personally, I think if someone is going to kill their child for simply being the 'wrong' sex.... they should be sterilized. I know that isn't likely to happen, but it's how I feel.

Becky - posted on 11/15/2011

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This hits a nerve with me because I am currently going through some pretty hardcore grief over the fact that the child I am currently carrying is, almost certainly, a boy. He is our last and I can't even describe how much I wanted a daughter. I can understand that the grief is very real (I'm sure even more so when you actually had a daughter who died!) and that it is a type of loss. But the idea of aborting him because he was not a girl is not something that ever even crossed my mind! I have a very hard time even imagining such a thing and to me, it seems very cold and callous. Yes, I am sad that I am not having a girl and I think a part of me is always going to be sad that I never had a daughter. But that is not my baby boy's fault and I am not going to resent him or love him any less for not being a girl. If anything, it's my husband's fault, so I'll just resent him! :) (kidding!) And I hope I never make him feel that I love him less because he wasn't the girl I really wanted.

I also think that sends a pretty negative message to the 3 boys they already have, if they were to learn that their parents had killed their baby brothers simply because they weren't girls. Wouldn't that make them feel like they weren't good enough for their parents because they were boys? That is how I would worry that my boys would feel if I were to ever do such a thing. I am very cautious about even talking about how much I want a girl around them because I don't want them to feel I love them less than I would love a girl. Like I said to my husband, "I'm not sad I'm having another boy. I adore my boys, they are amazing. I'm just sad that I'll never have a girl."

I know this family has the right to have an abortion for whatever reason they want to, but I have a right to think their reason for doing so it pretty heartless and terrible.

Mary - posted on 11/17/2011

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Rebecca, I don't think anyone is arguing the legality of what they did, but instead, the morality. It's not as if she was arrested, or if she was denied the freedom to abort. She exercised her reproductive rights, and then publicized her actions. There is no threat of her being prosecuted or jailed. However, it does mean she opened herself up to public judgement and opinion on her actions.

Ez - posted on 11/15/2011

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Yeah this happened a while ago. And yes it's revolting. They may have the right (and I am a big believer in women's reproductive rights) but I also have the right to judge them as being insanely cold-hearted and obsessed. Grief is no excuse IMO.

Brittany - posted on 11/15/2011

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I think they should be charged with Manslaughter, or what is equal in Australia.

They went to the doctor, asked him to help them have a baby and then killed it becuase, the children were not the right sex.

Here is an idea, adopt. The process is just as expensive and just as lengthy.

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[deleted account]

While many of you find this to be morally disgusting and abortion wrong due to the wrong gender, it's still a legal medical procedure. She wasn't breaking the law. She might be mentally unstable and demented, but well within the rights of the law.

Tina - posted on 04/29/2012

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pretty shocking hey. I'm not so proud to be an Aussie at the moment. I know their are reasons why woman abort. But that late in pregnancy is just wrong. I don't know how anybody can physically do it. I looked at this abortion site just after I had my daughter. I just cried. How can anybody do this to a baby.

Sneaky - posted on 04/29/2012

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You can abort up to 40 weeks in any state of Australia - you just need to go before the court and have a judge approve it. If you can get a dr to say having the baby will be detrimental to your mental health then you get approved to have the abortion. Even if you are 41 weeks and 6 days pregnant. As long as that baby has never taken a breath outside of your womb, you can legally kill it in the land of Oz.

Tina - posted on 04/29/2012

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I am also Australian. Abortions laws vary from state to state.

Victoria
Sweeping changes to abortion laws were passed on 10th October, 2008, after Premier John Brumby announced “our existing laws are out of step with community sentiment.” 1 Current legislation now allows abortion up to full term (birth). That is, abortions up to 24 weeks on request, with abortions after that time until birth requiring two doctors to agree that it is appropriate, based on the women’s current and future physical, psychological and social circumstances. 2 Doctors who conscientiously oppose abortion have to refer women requesting an abortion to doctors who perform abortions or face prosecution. No anaesthetic needs to be given to aborted unborn babies at any stage of developmentwas passed by the Upper House 23-17 3, with no amendments

http://abortsa.com/?page_id=397 Warning this site an anti abortion website and can be also quite graphic.

Sal - posted on 04/27/2012

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In Australia there is often a portion Of IVF that is clamable from our medicare system, i don't know if this particular couple did get medicare rebates

Fiona - posted on 04/27/2012

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@wanda Abortions cant be done after the 12th week as far as i know. Not unless the child has a servere condition such as downs syndrome or such.

Wanda - posted on 04/27/2012

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One mom posted that if it were the tax payer money then keep them. What is that? For one, IVF is on the couple not the tax payers.If they are getting public assistance this proceedure would not be covered. I feel that they are wrong and wanting to abort just because they are male's is unspeakable. I don't know the couple and they may be morning over the loss of their daughter that passed away so badly they cannot see what is right and what is wrong. I am sure that the children they have would suffer some emotional trauma if they were told the real reason why the twins were getting aborted.I don't see how they could abort now anyway. In order to see the babies gender through ultra sound they have to be at least 16 weeks. I thought that an abortion couldn't be done after the 15th week? I am sorry that you are upset about this choice that they have made but, unless it is your family member or you then you should just leave the matter to them and try to forget about it. Sorry you feel so bad about this .

Fiona - posted on 04/26/2012

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Ver, very dissapointing. I am Australian and actually thought that aborting well and healthy children was considered to be murder in this country. They should be happy that the IVF worked at all, and the babies would have been a decent 5 months gestation when they aborted to find out their sex. i am pregnant and want a girl but would not trade for the world if its a boy, as much as i would be disheartened that it wasnt what i wanted. And i agree that if someone shouldnt become pregnant, they should be sterile. There is a reason why some people find it hard to conceive, think anyway. i know they lost a girl, and that would be sad to have happen, but i believe there is a reason for everything. Maybe, nature is trying to tell them that they arent suited for a boy, and should be grateful for what they receive. I'm sorry but i hope that every try from now on is a boy, and that if they decide to go with gender selection, that the attempts to fertilize fail. That would be lesson learnt for them that they cant just get away with murder because their babies arent the sex they want! Some people can be so selfish!

Megan - posted on 04/25/2012

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This makes me sick to my stomach. What is the world coming to? May God give them a change of heart...

Tina - posted on 04/25/2012

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at 20 weeks is a bit late to be making that choice. you know when you get pregnant there's a good chance it could be either sex. Late late in the pregnancy aborting twin babies is still going to have an impact on your body so why not give another couple a chance of having a baby if you don't want it. There is no pain relief with abortions for babies. I understand some in some circumstances why people feel the need to do it. But why 2 perfectly healthy babies. My cousin desperately wants a boy they just had there 3rd a girl they wanted a boy but they love her just as much. There has to be alternatives and laws need to be changed to make it easier for parents to conceive the gender they want to stop unneccesary abortions like this.

Natalie - posted on 04/23/2012

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If they were able to choose the gender in the first place, this post would never have happened. By not having this available I'm sure it is happening more often than you think.

User - posted on 12/23/2011

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Thats horrible!! When I was pregnant with my son (whos 4 now) my sister tried to force me to get an abortion. She even made the appointment for me. I was a single mother (and still am) but I knew I could support him. I refused to even think of abortion, I could NEVER do it...

Jamie - posted on 12/22/2011

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I am against abortion of any kind...so it's no surprise this story is disturbing to me.

But wait...There are gender selection procedures. Why didn't they do that?


I'm also unsure about how I feel about IVF. I'm not judging anyone who is going through it- I've never been in a situation where I felt I needed to go through the process. If my son for some reason needed a bone marrow transplant and we needed an exact match I would do it in a heartbeat....

but there are aspects of the procedure that make me really uncomfortable-
1. the increased risk of estrogen related cancers
2. the multiple fertilized eggs being implanted that would later be terminated to give a better survival rate to the other fetuses
3. the fertilized eggs that may stay frozen indefinitely

All of that makes me uncomfortable. I haven't really processed my feelings about all of it. I find IVF a blessing...but not without some major drawbacks like the one mentioned

I understand that adoption isn't for everyone, but I also wonder if some couples that would make great adoptive parents are potentially missing out because they think this is the natural next step to go in the discovery of infertility...That would make me sad.

Tina - posted on 12/22/2011

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I'd rather gender selection be available then a baby be aborted because it was the wrong gender. that is way to late to abort and cruel. I was lucky enough to have one of each. But have relatives who have wanted either a boy or girl kept trying didn't get what they wanted but they don't love their kids any less and each child has their own personality. I know people don't like the thought of gender selection when doing IVF because they feel like it's playing God but isn't abortion doing just that. The child may not have been wanted by the parents but this is Australia their a plenty of lovely people who would have happily welcomed these children into their family.

Bridget - posted on 12/05/2011

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This is just awful! Why should it matter what sex the baby is? They are human beings who have a right to live. This lady needs to go to some serious counseling.

Kellie - posted on 11/30/2011

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From someone who was done years of ivf to have my twins. I would deary love to be pregnant again. I would love to have twin boys. I would have them.

Momof1 - posted on 11/30/2011

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Not right. I don't agree with abortion at all. So I obviously don't agree with this. I want a girl and my husband and I only want two kids. We already have a son. If I got pregnant and it was another boy, so be it. I'd have another son and love him just as much. I have a bunch of other girl nieces I can spoil. Killing a child because he isn't the gender you want is worse then having an abortion just to have one. So many people in the world want to have children and can't. If you can kill the baby inside you, then you should be strong enough to have that child and give him up for adoption. Give life.

Maggie - posted on 11/29/2011

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I hate hearing stories like this. I think its so so very wrong. The way i look at this couple, is if they were to get pregnant again and it was ANOTHER boy, would they abort that one too because its not a girl? How many boys would they abort to get their girl? what if they never get a girl? I think it is absolutely disgusting for people to think this way. I have a little boy and another boy on the way. Yes, I would have liked a girl but im happy with what ever i am blessed to get. I have a family member who has lost 3 babies and they want nothing more than to have a baby of their own and they cant afford IVF. This couple should be black listed from being able to use IVF in the future. This woman clearly has some kind of mental problem and should not be allowed to conceive again if this is her attitude towards it. Makes me sick, it really does

Emilie - posted on 11/29/2011

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My cousin used like all her savings to have IVF, and had 3 miscarages and now she has no more money to try again and she is starting to get to old to get pregnant anyway. And here is people that already have 3 healthy boys and killed a baby. They need to be happy with what they have because some people like my cousin can't even have kids.

Mary - posted on 11/19/2011

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Becky, I agree. Although we all grieve differently, everything I have ever read about this couple screams that they are deeply disturbed in their grief process, and in need of some intensive counselling before adding another child into their lives.

I cannot fathom how I would be if something were to happen to my daughter, but I'm pretty sure that I would never think that I could replace her with another child. I also think that if I did somehow get pregnant again, the thought of ending another child's life that was actually living and growing inside of me would be absolutely impossible. To live through the loss of one child is unimaginable, but to then go on and destroy the potential for life in two more of my children that I intentionally created? Nope - that just hits me as a severely pathological grief response.

Kellie - posted on 11/18/2011

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I agree with Becky. Until she deals with the grief of losing her daughter, nothing will bring her back. Trying to have another daughter will not replace the the one she lost. Natural or Adoption

Becky - posted on 11/18/2011

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Honestly, until she deals with her grief over the daughter she lost, adoption would not be a good option for them anyways. Trying to replace a child you lost is not going to work, regardless. Trying to replace her with a child who is not biologically hers and who may have some issues, is just a very, very bad idea. Some day, adoption might be a good option for them. But right now, I don't think it would be, at all.

Sherri - posted on 11/18/2011

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Sharlene she said some people don't want to adopt when they can use IVF to conceive. She also never said if IVF didn't work that adoption wouldn't be an option.

Sharlene - posted on 11/18/2011

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Okay Rebecca; Now your saying adoption is not intertested ,so if a couple have been on IVF treatment for a year or so and let's say there not making much progress, But this couple still want's a child,What then ???? would adoption be there only choice or surrogate mothers. .

Sal - posted on 11/18/2011

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I agree if it is about a daughter than adoption is a good option, this woman wasn't able to love her own bio son enough to not abort them I doubt she is able to see anything but her own insane truth that another daughter will stop the pain , I hope she gets the help she needs and doesn't stay on this bitter rollercoaster and I prey that the decision to abort her sons doesn't haunt her when she gets well

[deleted account]

Emma -- just because you would love an adopted kid the same doesn't mean everyone feels the same way. Not everyone is interested in adoption. Why adopt when you can have your own child?

Charlie - posted on 11/18/2011

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The first time I was pregnant I was on the pill, confused, hormonal, scared out of my mind.
I had no idea what to do , what abortion entailed, what the outcome of having a child was.

My boss, mentor and very close friend took me into the abortion clinic not to have an abortion but to speak to the councellor who is available to everyoone who comes in.

She asked me a lot of questions , cleared up the reality of abortion and helped me think clearly and rationally about life with a child.
She was very even and unbiased towards either, she assessed me and gave me her opinion.

I kept the baby but before I spoke to her I had no idea of where I was going, what I was doing, I hadnt thought of the massive amount of support I would have and I was unable to asses my own reasoning and mental capability of pulling through either situations because my mind was in a flurry.

Having said that... this woman needs to see a grief counsellor , an entirely different, specialised counsellor.

It is about a woman trying to find a bandaid solution for her loss and making decisions that affect lives ( not just the fetus) in a state of mind that in my opinion does not sound stable enough to make those decisions.

She is willing to go to great lengths and destroy anything that gets in the way, this is less about abortion and more about the abuse of the system by a woman who really should not be making these decisions until she has has fully come to terms with the loss of her daughter .... which she obviously has not.

Stifler's - posted on 11/18/2011

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how about ADOPT A GIRL. I'm tired of hearing about how it's not the same as having your own child. I've got 2 kids already as had this bitch and I'd love an adopted kid just the same. I know what's it's like to have your own biological child and it's not as special as bonding with and raising your children into little people regardless of where they came from.

[deleted account]

@Sherri -- you are talking about the odds of a single conception and the odds there aren't exactly 50/50 because more boys than girls are conceived (I think it's about 55% to 45%). It's different for twins. Dyan has the right concept -- it's approximately 25% for two boys, 25% for boy-girl; 25% for girl-boy; 25% for girl-girl. The actual percentages for fraternals weigh out a little more in favor of girls so the overall odds of having at least one girl in a set of fraternal twins is closer to 80%, but saying anywhere between 75-80% give you a good estimate of the odds of having at least one girl. I remember studying those odds when we found out we were having the second set of twins.

[deleted account]

Except that we faced that exact scenario, Sharlene, and we kept both. I joke all the time that we were trying for a girl and we ended up with a bonus boy.

Sal - posted on 11/18/2011

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I doubt having a daughter will help this wOman heal what happened when she has the girl and it doesn't help she is still greiving I think she needs someone to sit her down and tell her she can't play god making and taking away life at a whim and get a fucking puppy to dress up

Personally i feel iif a clinic gave her ivf they would be negligent in their duty of care

Rosie - posted on 11/18/2011

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wouldn't it be 75% rebecca? there's 25% chance of twin boys, 25% chance of twin girls and a 50% chance of having one of each, wouldn't that make it 75% that at least one would be a girl? i'm not the greatest at math though, lol.
i'm sure there's other probabilities in there somewhere..:)

Sherri - posted on 11/18/2011

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No matter how many children you have and the gender you always have a 50/50 chance of getting either sex. I have 4 boys but my chances are not anymore higher to have boy or a girl if I were to get pregnant again.

Kellie - posted on 11/18/2011

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Just wondering if she already has 3 boys. How did she have a 80% chance of having a girl? Next round of ivf l will ask my ivf Doctor.

Sharlene - posted on 11/17/2011

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Let's say she had one of each ,would she still want the baby boy?????? I THINK NOPE

[deleted account]

Actually, they were planning on coming to America if the Austrailian government denied their request for PGD. I'm sure they were hoping at least one of the twins was going to be a girl. The odds were about 80% that at least one of the babies would have been a girl.

Sharlene - posted on 11/17/2011

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I agree with Kelli,It is so upsetting to termined a fetus.Your from Queensland are u,

Kellie - posted on 11/17/2011

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Since preimplatation geretic testing is not avaliable in Australia why not just go to America where is is avaliable. Or try to have the laws changed here. Ivf was not the right choice. They need to have alot of counseling before making anymore life changing decisions. They need to deal with the loss of there little girl first. Abortion is just so sad.

Sherri - posted on 11/17/2011

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Most places now require counseling as a mandatory requirement before having an abortion.

Kellie - posted on 11/17/2011

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You don't just walk into the clinic get knocked out and have the proceedure done.

They have someone talk to you, tell you what's going to happen and make sure this is what you want before you proceed.

I guess in a way while it's not 'proper' counselling, there is a kind and compassionate person there before you go through with your decision to make sure that this is what you want.

It's not a completely sterile thing devoid of any 'talks'.

Hope - posted on 11/17/2011

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I am not judging the women who go into get abortions I am judging the system. I think it is unhealthy and can be make healthier with one simple change.

Hope - posted on 11/17/2011

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I mean a nonjudgmental person the woman can talk things through with and know at the end she is truly making the best decision for her. I am not saying stop abortion, I am saying make the abortion process healthier.

Kellie - posted on 11/17/2011

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You don't find out your pregnant and just go, oh what the hell, I reckon I'll terminate just for shits and giggles without considering FULLY what the decision entails and how you will feel after.

Sharlene - posted on 11/17/2011

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Im off topic but I have 4 children and 3 step children I adore all of them .I would love to have more children later

Sharlene - posted on 11/17/2011

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I will agreed if the mother had seriouse medical issues or if a child is under age or raped,But what type of state of mind was she really in to me that decesion.Like Hope said there should be counciling or a wellfare worker to assess these women before they go through something like this

Hope - posted on 11/17/2011

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SO what if through a pre abortion counseling it is discovered the only reason the mother it terminating is because someone in her life is telling her it is her only option. I am sorry but I do not and will never believe everyone goes into an abortion with a full understanding of what there are do and the outcome of what there are doing, both emotionally and physically. It is a major decision in a persons life and think it is irresponsible that the government can allow women to make such a big decision without undergoing some form of counseling

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