Leashes/Harnesses

Lacye - posted on 10/24/2011 ( 230 moms have responded )

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I noticed that a while back, there was a thread about leashes and what do you as mothers think about them. The thread was closed because it had been so long since a person has posted but I figured I would open up a new one so we could discuss it again. :D

Personally, I wouldn't mind having one. My daughter has figured out that she needs to hold my hand when we are out in public but I think a harness would come in handy for when I need to have both of my hands for something instead of just one. Plus my daughter's hand gets really sweaty when I'm holding it and I end up having to hold onto her wrist and for some reason that just makes me uncomfortable.

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Tracey - posted on 10/30/2011

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For a bit of reference, our expression "tied to his mother's apron strings" used to be literal. In order to keep children safe, mothers used to tie their toddlers to their extra-long apron strings. It was necessary to keep them from falling into the open fires, stumbling up against the wood stove, falling down the well, toddling into the cow's stall, etc. My grandmother was recently sent a letter from a family friend that was a letter my grandmother's great-grandmother sent to the friend's great-grandmother. It was written in 1861. In the letter, she says her 3-year-old has her at her wit's end. All day long, she's running up and down the stairs, nearly falling in the fire, nearly falling down the well, and she's old enough to untie the apron strings herself! And she wishes she had not moved away from her home town and family so she could have some help keeping track of her little girl. The fact that my family exists at all means that she must have found *some* way to deal with the problem!

Charlie - posted on 10/29/2011

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Im confused as to how a person comes to the conclusion "most parents are lazy " In reguards to leashes.



Do you ask "most parents" why thay use them ? are you a mind reader or just making assumptions ?



Like Danielle said "remember that you know absolutely NOTHING about the dynamic or personality of that child and that family!"



I could not agree more.

Caitlin - posted on 10/27/2011

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Any experienced mom though would probably tell you that a child acts differently with a parent than with a caregiver. My kids test my limits all the time, they know how to puch my buttons, they know what sets me off.. When I leave them with friends and family, apparently they are helpful little angels.. It's an issue of trust, and with YOUR child it will be different from other children.. I've watched and cared for many children before as well, but NEVER experienced the things I am now experiencing with my children, and that's because they trust me to be there for them no matter what. It's what being a parent is about. Caring for a child and being a parent of a child is VERY different.

Krista - posted on 10/26/2011

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My child is not my pet, he is my son. He is a little being that I am able to talk to, and make sense with. With respect and understanding he will listen and understand what we, his mom and dad expect of him, even at an early age.

You DO realize that toddlers do not have the same impulse control as adults, right? I think what Cathy (and Lauralei, and myself) are saying is: wait and see.

You might be right. Maybe your child will be great at listening and won't be a bolter.

But maybe he won't. You just DON'T KNOW, so your premature confidence is more than a little amusing.

Besides, like Sherri said, in large crowds, even the best-behaved toddler can inadvertently slip out of Mom's hands.

And lastly, if you don't want to use them for your kid, and you don't need them, then good on you. Seriously. But statements like the one I quoted above? Yeah...you're doing a VERY good job at insulting the hell out of any mother on here who does use a kid harness, by implying that a) she's treating her kid like a pet, and b) that she's doing a shit job as a parent because she just doesn't explain herself with the respect and understanding that you have apparently mastered.

Hope - posted on 11/08/2011

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I have never been a fan of the toddler leash. I can honestly say it depends on the child and how many you have.

This conversation has been closed to further comments

230 Comments

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Ez - posted on 11/08/2011

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** Mod Alert **

Locking this one down folks. Too many personal attacks.

Erin - DM Mod

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 11/08/2011

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As for me I learned tonight that some people are like slinkies. I'm sleep deprived so I can't make any thought provoking statements.

Danielle - posted on 11/08/2011

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Well, with all that's been said tonight, my thoughts are this. Some folks will never know what true love and respect for others is. And that is truly unfortunate for the humans close to them as they will will share & learn the very same disrespect and loathing for others.

Good night all & may you ALL be blessed with good friends, a family that loves you, & good fortune always!

Becky - posted on 11/08/2011

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It is unlikely that holding such an extreme opinion would not result in some type of action though. Maybe not actually going out and killing black people, but in treating them disrespectfully, making rude jokes about them, treating them as less human than others, etc. Not all opinions are so extreme of course, but our opinions are usually reflected, even if very subtly, in our actions. I may never approach someone whose parenting choices I disagree with and attack them for their choices, but I'm willing to bet that there are times they could pick up from my face or body language that I disagreed with their choices. And sometimes, I probably would not even be concious of that. And knowing nothing about why that person is making the choice they have made, it could be that even my subtle expression of distaste or disgust is very hurtful to that person. So, while everyone has the right to an opinion about whatever they want to have an opinion about, you have to be cautious about those opinions too. I will say again, while we are all guilty of it sometimes, I don't really think it is fair to form an opinion of someone else's actions (unless they are blatently illegal, cruel, harmful, etc) without knowing their story.

And now I shall stop talking, because this really is quite off topic. :)

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 11/08/2011

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Toni: I'm not about to allow my child to run and explore in one of the largest cities in Canada or a large function. That's utter irresponsibility.

No one is being lazy by trying to keep their child safe and closer to them.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 11/08/2011

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The actions in which a person defends herself can be wrong, but not the action in defending herself. In this case the statement 'Moms who use harnesses are lazy' was used and deemed as an attack by moms who have used harnesses or were placed in harnesses as children.

You really should not go into a debate thread and expect that calling all moms lazy won't start a fire. And if you can't stand the fire then don't get near one. And don't kvetch about being attacked when you threw the first punch.

Toni - posted on 11/08/2011

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also will explain fully why we think it is lazy, then we will leave, it is lazy mainly because most people, and i do mean most, who use harnesses are too busy with work or whatever to look after their child properly, so what if your child like to run, or explore, run with them, explore with them, do not be too busy for them, now comes the real attack, 90% of you who use harnesses are to busy for your child, and that is being lazy, if you dont have the time, make the time, any and everything else is not good enough, they do not want money or posessions, although they ask for them, they want mum and dad, they want love, not a parent who is too busy for them

Toni - posted on 11/08/2011

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did not say that oppinion was not wrong, but as an opinion it is harmless, actions derived from said opinion are what is realy wrong, not the opinion itself

Becky - posted on 11/08/2011

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The thing is, while you do have a right to your opinion, you really have no right to judge people you know nothing about. Seeing a person walking with their child on a harness and automatically judging them as lazy - even if you do not convey that judgement to them - is wrong. It is no better than judging a mother as being rough because she has tatoos or as not caring as much about her child because you see her feeding her child from a bottle. Tatoos do not mean a person has a certain personality. Bottle-feeding does not mean a person loves their child any less or wants the very best for them any less. And using a harness does not mean a parent is lazy, doesn't take every available opportunity to teach their child safety and responsibility, or doesn't spend every available moment with their child, engaging and playing with them. Yes, everyone makes snap judgements about things without knowing any of the actual facts. Sadly, it is human nature. That doesn't make it right though!

And I would have to disagree that the opinion, "All black people should be killed" is not wrong. It is an opinion based in hatred and racism, both of which are wrong.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 11/08/2011

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Uh... congrats you found an online dictionary?



Now can we please get back on topic?



I've never used one. I kinda want to use one on my 7 year old though because she runs off everywhere. Zellers, Sport Check, Chapters you name it and she runs off. I can't even tie my shoe!

Toni - posted on 11/08/2011

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de·bate
n.

1. A discussion involving opposing points; an argument.
2. Deliberation; consideration: passed the motion with little debate.
3. A formal contest of argumentation in which two opposing teams defend and attack a given proposition.
4. Obsolete Conflict; strife.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 11/08/2011

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Toni, I've never used a harness on either of my children (the younger one is 8 months) but I can see the need for them especially if you have more than one child or one of your children has a disability of some sort. It would be foolish not to.

Yes teaching your children how to look both ways, listen to you and stay near you in public places is important, but some parents need to go an extra step.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 11/08/2011

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You'd think a Mod would understand THUMPS.



I really do believe that if you can't stand the heat stay out of the kitchen. Debate threads aren't for everyone.



ETA: Didn't your mom teach you, If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all?

Danielle - posted on 11/08/2011

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@ Toni...after all the posts to you are you kidding? You are allowed to have your opinion, but if you think we are all "lazy" in that opinion, keep it to yourself. And being that you chose not to, expect the rest of us to defend ourselves. I THINK YOU ARE AN AMAZING PARENT BECAUSE YOU DON'T USE A LEASH ON YOUR CHILD! Do you feel better now?

Carolee - posted on 11/08/2011

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You are still not listening and grasping the basis of a debate. Perhaps this group is not for you/your wife. Just trying to help.

Toni - posted on 11/08/2011

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sorry, we got it wrong, we thought it was an open discussion for all opinions, our mistake

Carolee - posted on 11/08/2011

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Yes, you think using leashes/harnesses is wrong. Yes, other women think it is a useful tool. NEITHER of those two opinions is "right" or "wrong". You do what is "right for you", and they will do what is "right for them". Listen to the reasons why and why not. Try to learn something. Try to see the world from a different perspective.

Danielle - posted on 11/08/2011

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Well said Becky...portion of my original post below.

So, before you judge people with children on a leash, remember that you know absolutely NOTHING about the dynamic or personality of that child and that family! Mind your own business and let others live there lives and raise their children as they see fit...besides, why do you care? Are you PERFECT or are you trying to feel more perfect because you see someone doing something you don't agree with???

Toni - posted on 11/08/2011

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an oppinion, not mine, "all black people should be killed" not a good oppinion, but still an opinnion, yet if i killed all black people, then there is the wrongness, not the opinion, the action, we are not going up to every parent who uses a harness abusing them, or hitting them or anything like that, but we look at them and have an oppinion on their actions

Carolee - posted on 11/08/2011

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We're not saying you are wrong, we are pointing out that your "debating tactics" are unacceptable for this forum. Click on the little thing that says "powered by RESPECT not THUMPS" by the "Post" button. Read the rules of what's acceptable.

Toni - posted on 11/08/2011

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we have different oppinions, simple, i appologise for any attacks, the ones i pointed out, but not for anything else, we have an opinion, you have an opinion, we can see yours, but do not agree, you cannot see ours, and say we are wrong, we are not saying you are wrong, we just have an opinion

Becky - posted on 11/08/2011

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An opinion and an attack are not mutually exclusive. If I were to say, "in my opinion all parents who do not use a harness for their children are idiots who obviously don't care about their children's safety and care more about how people perceive them than about their children," would you take that as me simply stating my opinion, or as attacking parents who do not use harnesses? (that's not my opinion, btw!) The words you use in stating your opinion make a huge difference in how that opinion is perceived!

In addition, it is an unfair opinion to have. You have not been in the shoes of everyone here, or of everyone who uses a harness for their children, just like we have not been in your shoes. There may be areas in your parenting that some of us disagree with too, and it's okay to disagree. The point is to be respectful when you disagree, not to call people who parent differently from you disgusting and lazy and accuse them of not spending enough time with their children, because the FACT (not my opinion!) is that you have NO clue about how someone else parents or what they go through with their child/ren!

Toni - posted on 11/08/2011

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i still dont see how any parent can harness their child and not see it as a bad thing, my opinion, just as yours is not seeing how saying it is cruell and lazy to harness a child is disrepectful

Carolee - posted on 11/08/2011

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And I'm personally sick and tired of everybody claiming "abuse" when somebody else does something they (the person crying "abuse") personally wouldn't do. I've been through TRUE abuse, and it wasn't a flippin leash!

Danielle - posted on 11/08/2011

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@ Toni...no one is asking you to apologize for your opinion. I don't think anyone here has a problem that you don't like harnesses, but how it is, that you don't see that calling us "lazy" is mean, judgmental, and disrespectful is beyond me. It truly worries me that folks don't seem to know what "respect" for others even means.

Toni - posted on 11/08/2011

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i still dont see any personal attacks there, i see an opinion, is there anyones names there? no, only i (toni's husband) have attacked anyone, and i pointed out the attacks, otherwise it is all opinions

Carolee - posted on 11/08/2011

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There's never a need to apologise for an opinion. There is always reason to apologise if you've been attacking people who do not share your opinion.

Merry - posted on 11/08/2011

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Mr and mrs Toni. This is the original post that made everyone upset.

"""19312
Toni Lammers - posted 2 hours ago
I find the idea of using a leash on a child discusting.
My son knows how to walk when we are on the street. He holds my hand at all times unless I tell him he can let go. If for some reason i cannot hold his hand i tell him to hold onto my shirt so I know he is there. If I dont feel him holding onto my shirt I tell him to hold on again.
My son may be only 3, but he knows all the road rules, and in my personal opinion a parent is just being lazy if they cannot teach their child the road rules.""""

There's some key words in here.
Disgusting, this is an offensive word to call someone.
Lazy, this is also an offensive name to call someone.

Saying 'in my opinion' does not make it safe to be rude to others.
"in my opinion every black man woman and child should be shot" well that just doesn't sound too good does it!

We are a decent group of moms here, we debate, discuss, and learn. But when we are attacked we dont just sit back and take it.
Especially when it's ignorance attacking us.

Many of us don't even use harnesses but we have learned to respect the fact that we don't know everyone's situations or what reasons they might have for sing one.

Mr and mrs Toni, avoid hurtful words like disgusting and lazy when describing other mothers and you will be fine.
But using such hurtful terms will not get you far here.

Toni - posted on 11/08/2011

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still dont see what is wrong with an opinion, being "lazy" by using a harness is an opinion, how is it an attack? we have been called worse by people putting us into a group and labelling that group, but we just shrugg it off and realise it is just someones oppinion, seeing posts here we now see more reason for using a harness, but we still have our opinion, that is the respect we have givven, we can see and sympathise with people who use them, but yet we still belive having more time for your child will be better, we are sorry for our opinion, seems we have to appologise a lot in this world for having one

Becky - posted on 11/08/2011

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Why would I put my young child through taking them into large crowds? Hmmm, well, why do most people take their children to the zoo, or the amusement park, or the shopping mall, etc? Because they want them to experience life beyond the four walls of their home! They want their children to have those experiences and the chance to learn about the world around them, even when they are very young. Your child's life (and I notice you only have one) must be very boring indeed if he never has the opportunity to experience places where there are more than a few people present!

And calling people disgusting is not an opinion, it is an attack. Not everyone who said they have never used a harness for their child and don't understand its use was criticised for that view. Only those who lumped all parents who use them into the "lazy, neglectful, treating their child like a dog..." catagory were attacked for it. Fine, if your child doesn't need one, don't use one! No one is criticising you for not using one! But don't automatically assume that anyone who uses one is a lazy parent who can't be bothered to teach or supervise their child!

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 11/08/2011

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Yes, calling people you don't know lazy, abusive and barbaric is the way to win friends and influence others! I don't really give out respect it has to be earned.

Danielle - posted on 11/08/2011

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If you truly had respect for the folks on here Toni, you would have just said, "I've never had a need for one, I don't really like them, but it's your own business how you raise your child." End of Story

Danielle - posted on 11/08/2011

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@ Toni...are you serious? You think calling all the Moms who use a harness/leash "Lazy" is showing us respect? I could be really mean now, but I WILL have some respect for you.

Janice - posted on 11/08/2011

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To add to Sherri's post I 100% believe it is hurtful to not let children experience new things and places. Proven fact that children need lots of experiences to learn and if for some children the safest way to do that is with a harness thats okay.

Toni - posted on 11/08/2011

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oh p.s. we do not think we are awesome parents, we are human, we make mistakes, but we also have opinions and reasons for those opinions, you reasons for using harnesses may make sense to you, but not to us, that is our oppinion, and we respect yours, yet you cannot respect ours

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 11/08/2011

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I'd also suggest purchasing a dictionary or utilizing google. We debate on here, that's why this forum is Debating moms. We don't have to be nice and agree all the time. We're not paid for that.

Toni - posted on 11/08/2011

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my mrs has givven up on this site, and will not be back, i just wanted to voice my opinion aswell before she left, if 1 opinion is ok, but if you have the opposite oppinion then you are evil, then why bother, may as well make this site political too, seeing as most politicians cant see other points of view either, have fun with your caged children that will resent you later in life

Danielle - posted on 11/08/2011

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Toni, you did not "just" disagree...you called each and every Mother that uses or has used a harness "lazy". So stop playing your games and just go away. You obviously like to cause conflict, but I can assure you and as I said before. Judging us and saying we are lazy is not going to make you a better parent.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 11/08/2011

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Toni I'd suggest you go back to school because you need to learn to put a capitol letter at the beginning of a sentance.

That wasn't an attack, that was an observation.

Also Sherri and I may butt heads, but she's not what I'd call barbaric or violent.

BTW, I'm reporting you for rude language and tone. So I hope you like friendly mod reminders.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 11/08/2011

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Do you have any experiance at all with special needs children? Seriously. My daughter is 7 and has ADHD she can't sit still in her booster for 3 minutes in the car unless she has her books, DVD and what have you. She listens for as long as she wants to then does what she wants. And it's not because she doesn't know and I didn't teach her. Hell I was a single mom and she was an only child until March of this year. That's just how she's wired. Thankfully she's tall so I could usually get her to hold my hand. And that's not even as severe of a disability.

Danielle - posted on 11/08/2011

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I will say it slooowweeer for you Husband Toni...YOUR WIFE ATTACKED US FIRST...WE ARE DEFENDING OURSELVES.



Has this sunk into your brain now?

Toni - posted on 11/08/2011

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if i did happen to have a special needs child, no different, just would have to spend more time teaching it, and looking after it, still would not treat it like a dog

Janice - posted on 11/08/2011

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I find it to be a personal attack when I am told that I dont care about my child because I take 5 seconds to compare the price of laundry detergent and she runs off.
The point of debate is to get people to think not to be mean. And besides this is circle of MOMS so go away Toni's husband!

Toni - posted on 11/08/2011

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violent, how? i am attacking any and all that attacked my mrs, so if that is violent, then i am just fighting fire with fire, violence to me includes torture, and a torture device is a harness and lead, lol

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 11/08/2011

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These aren't attacks this is a debate. You want attacks watch US presidential debates on youtube. And BTW calling the moms who do use a harness lazy, abusive and barbaric, those are attacks.



I'm sorry niether of you has had to deal with a child with a physical handicap or ADHD as the rest of us have and find us who do have children with a mental or physical handicap uncivilized. When you write your how to book on perfect parenting (joint of course) I'll be sure to pick up a copy.



But let's get one thing straight here in a debate no one can hear you kvetch about how we're being unfair. Especially when you threw the first punch.



ETA: Ever been to the New York State Fair or the Provincial Expo in Vancouver? Ever done it with a child with ADHD and a stroller with a baby in it who doesn't like to be in a stroller and you don't really want to use the K'tan?

Danielle - posted on 11/08/2011

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Well Husband Toni, what's good for the goose is good for the gander...your wife, I'm sure, attacked first. But I guess that's the norm these days...not allowed to defend yourself or you become the mean, violent, big baaaaddd guy. LOL

Toni - posted on 11/08/2011

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i see an opinion there, and no personal attacks, but if you are taking your child into large crowds, you need to get your priorities right, why would you do that to a kid, and if you cant look after more that 2 or 3 kids, yet you have them, get yourself fixxed

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