Low Income Parents are Worse Parents?

Jodi - posted on 02/26/2012 ( 323 moms have responded )

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Okay, now don't anyone jump down my throat on this one! Meme mentioned in another thread that she saw low income parents doing a less than desirable job educating and entertaining their children whilst grocery shopping. And...I have to concur, kind of! lol



I am NOT saying all low income parents are bad parents, I am not saying ANY low income parents are bad parents (and neither did MeMe), but here are a few points, and this is from my personal experience with MANY low income mothers as I live in a relatively low income neighborhood.



The mothers I know, do not focus on nutrition, at all. I have been on food stamps in the past, trust me, they can afford to purchase healthy foods! (at least in my area) Instead, they buy instant food, food from a can and more often than not, hit up fast food joints.



The mothers I know, spank (like, many times a day, a few even many times an hour) They use yelling and spanking for everything, whereI would let most of these things slide with just a warning or a few choice words, they use their hands. (note, I do not have a problem with spanking when used appropriately!)



The mothers I know do NOT keep up their house. Now, don't get me wrong, my house is MESSY. But I'm talking about houses where you can't see the floor, where you can't shut the bathroom door because there's so much clothing on the floor. Where food is caked and moldy on counter tops etc etc.



They do not read to their children, their children are TV zombies, they barely speak to their children much less teach them, just a few days ago, I saw one of my 3 year old neighbors riding her bike, no helmet, all around the neighborhood in the middle of the road, mom wasn't even AWAKE!!!! We're talking 10ish in the morning.



So, I'm hoping for the sake of our world, this just an isolated phenomenon, but is this true in your experience, and why do you think this is?

MOST HELPFUL POSTS

Isobel - posted on 02/26/2012

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I haven't read anything yet, I just want to post my initial reaction first.



I used to be a low-income mom and to be honest, yes, I am a better mother now. Why? Because being a mom is a struggle at the best of times, when you throw poverty into the mix it's pretty much impossible not to sink into depression and give up.



Trust me, they know how you look at them, you can see it on everybody's face when you are "that mom". I didn't spank but I wouldn't be surprised if this group did it more often because the stress is horrible, I also understand the non-healthy food thing, if the only comfort you have in the world is what you put in your mouth...you're gonna choose something you WANT to eat.My house was generally clean (I mopped all the floors every night...way cleaner than my house is now) probably because I was afraid of "looking like one of those moms", and yeah, I didn't read to my kids as much as I should've because I was freaking exhausted.



Those women you hear about who live in the projects and keep their heads up and inspire their children to do better...I have no idea how they do it but they have my undying respect because it is the hardest job in the world to do. People judging you and making assumptions like this don't help.

Jaime - posted on 03/17/2012

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MeMe, this is what you said; "Anyone can get a hand-up, they just need to get off of their couch and do it... It doesn't come free, only the monthly cheque does. ;)".



This is a blanket statement, so although you say that you are merely referring to 'that' group of low-income, welfare recipients that are lazy (though in my experience, very few actually are), you have just managed to cover us all. And though you've been in these shoes before, that does not make you the expert of my, nor any other low-income situation. I really think that's the point you seem to be missing from the other comments telling you much the same thing. If you want to share some resources or ideas, awesome, but if all you want is to parade your past struggles on a false banner of support, then I think I'll pass, thanks.

Sneaky - posted on 03/17/2012

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Should I point out the blooming obvious????? Only about the top 2-5% of ANY country are the "upper class"........that makes the majority of us "low income" parents. It doesn't matter if you think you are low income, or are on benefits or not (hell, working full-time in the US you probably live week to week on less money than you get on welfare in Australia), even if you think you are middle class - we are all in the same boat, and I seriously doubt that income = parenting skills.

Sarah - posted on 03/15/2012

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I think this thread has gotten a little out of control. There is NO need for personal attacks from either side. We can all be on the same road and still experience a different journey. No one persons experience is any less meaningful than anyone elses. Yes, research shows a correlation between poverty and poorer education. Research also a correlation between poorer education and increased parental coping. This CERTAINLY does not mean that every person who has a poor education is a bad parent or that everyone who lives in poverty has a poor education. It also leads to state therefore that not everyone who lives in poverty is a poor parent. The same goes the other way too. Not everyone who is well-to-do is educated or a good parent.



Instead of arguing like children and putting each other down, accept the experiences everyone else has had, and perhaps discuss ways people as a community can help to improve the parenting skills of everyone, regardless of their financial state.

[deleted account]

West, If you had read the rest of the posts, you would see that those parenting issues ARE more prevalent among low income parents--it is not an opinion, it is not a stereotype, it is a true set of statistics. I linked them several pages back.



Secondly, no one is saying that low income parents are bad parents, we are saying the might appear to be "bad" or "careless" parents because of obstacles caused by being low income that prevent them from achieving the standards of most middle and higher income families who have help or have money to make things easier for themselves.



Thirdly, to the person who mentioned that she knew rich, depressed moms who never leave their house, of course there are rich, depressed moms who never leave their houses, the difference between a rich, depressed mother and a poor, depressed mother, is that the rich one has the resources available to treat her depression and get out of it, whereas the poor one, in many cases, does not. This, of course only stands true in the US, where we have to pay for healthcare--if you are in another country with universal healthcare for everyone, that wouldn't be the case, but it is a very big problem here in the US.

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Alexis - posted on 06/29/2012

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I think this applies to Lazy people and because they are lazy they are low income. However, Low income does not mean lazy. Some parents are low income and are busting their butts to make things work. This can mean higher stress that makes them less patient with their children (as we have all experienced this before i'm sure) They may not have the time or energy to cook full meals and keep a clean house because they work multiple minimum wage jobs. Another aspect can be if they were raised this way then they are simply doing what they know. It doesn't mean they don't love or care about their kids but they may simply not know any better. There are also some low income parents that are awesome parents no matter what, but because their behavior doesn't make it obvious we probably don't even notice them.

Dori - posted on 06/29/2012

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some days i would agree but it also we only see where we live i dont live in the "nice " communities . we are low income housing and right now we are at poverty line as my partner just got laid of so we went from a monthly income of just under 4000 now were half of that for a family of 6. Its hard cause we judge on what we see and when we see the same thing over and over from certian "groups" of ppl how can we not form neg opinions i live in a majority immagrant area and i know that most are not the same but when i see dozen of of these kids running around the neighboor hood some as young as 3 by them selfs wreaking stuff and trying to take stuff that is not theirs it becomes very hard not to be angry and when i do try and talk to their parents because their 4 year old is in front of my house smashing her dishes and she just looks at me blankly it is very hard not to stay angry because now i have to make sure when those kids are out i have to keep my eyes peeled because who knows whats going to come out of their house next ok my rant done now to

Mother - posted on 03/17/2012

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Well now, it appears I'm not the only one with this opinion....quite interesting.

[deleted account]

***MOD NOTICE***



I'm locking this thread as the bickering has continued, it is getting us no where.



Toni M

Debating mums mod

[deleted account]

Heck, my husband lived w/ me for 7.5 years... SAW me have no energy to do anything and SAW me needing to go to bed by 9pm and not getting up til 6 and still being tired and he still didn't/doesn't believe me... and he lived it as close as anyone else in the world can w/out it actually BEING them....

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/17/2012

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Again, I have said those I know. I have said where I lived for 8 years. I am not saying everyone. You have not read previous posts beyond this page.



No false banner of support. If you live in Canada and have a social worker, go and ask them about all the available resources. Then come back and tell me it is a false banner of support. Hard work? Absolutely. Life is hard work, getting your feet on the ground is even harder.

Sally - posted on 03/17/2012

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MeMe - Moi :-* (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen), I don't see anyone twisting your words. Your message is coming through loud and clear. Saying stuff like, "get off the couch", "Don't give me the "oh poor me" BS. There is no such thing as "beyond their control". The resources are there for them too. They just HAVE to want it! ", "This is why they are there in the first place." is very telling on your part.



Maybe your situation was different, I don't know what your situation was. Suggesting that people are in these situations because it is their fault is not a fair assessment at all. It is down right insulting. We all know there are some who do abuse the system but that is not every person on assistance. Your reasoning is, well I did it therefore anyone who does not do what I did, is there because they want to be or is in the wrong. Wow, that is quite a self righteous viewpoint.

[deleted account]

Well, the only two people in my life that believe ME are my mom and my best friend for 21.5 years. No one else has a clue... or cares to believe me. :(

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/17/2012

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Teresa, I know them. I lived there for 8 years. I think I know many of them. ;)

[deleted account]

I think the point is... how do you KNOW their problem is that they are lazy? Do they tell you that themselves? Or are you just assuming it by their actions?

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/17/2012

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Ma B---

"Just reading the OP was enough for me to grab my crackers and ginger ale for the rising nausea, but after reading through some pages I think I may have actually contracted the Norovirus because it's about to come out of both ends at this point...I think this thread is so insulting on so many different levels where to begin is the question of the week. "



-- AGREED. I can't believe this thread is still going. There are bad parents in EVERY class and income bracket. I've been on the system and I completely disagree that low income equates bad parents. Some people are stuck. Sometimes it is their fault and other times, it is not. Stuck up snobs that sit in cushy chairs, judging at whim, certainly don't help the situation.




If you don't like the title of the thread then why are you here commenting? Ah yes, I remember, you like to argue. ;)



How about you debate. You know, give your side of things, rather than grab other's comments and twist and turn them to your liking? What is your debate? Where is it? Do you actually have an experience to share? Or are you only able to fight with other people?



Sorry Ma B. You're not worth my time of day in this thread. It isn't productive. As a matter in fact it is sad. Sad that you don't really have an idea of what is going on in the area's that I have lived but feel the need to suggest that I am ignorant to where I HAVE lived. LOL - OK then. You go right ahead. You get to play on your own with this one too.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/17/2012

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Ah, no. I have no problem with people commenting on what I say, if it is what I actually say. You have a very known approach to twisting and making what another says to fit what you want it to say.



These people are not lazy. Some have just been handed situations beyond their control. AND by vocalizing such heinous statements only makes said recipients feel WORSE then they already do. If you tell someone what a loser they are enough times, some begin to believe it.



The people I am talking about? Yes, sorry to burst your bubble. They ARE lazy. I also fail to see who I am calling a loser. Unless I go and knock on each of their doors and tell them "You are a loser", I am doing no such thing. What a ridiculous statement. LOL - too funny.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/17/2012

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Well Teresa, it is apparent to me that you are in the "other" category of welfare recipients. You WANT to make something of yourself. You HAVE tried. You work don't you? You said you did. So, I am NOT referring to you.



I do however, wish you the best of luck. I know it is not easy. I hope it all works out for you and you get what you most definitely deserve.

Mother - posted on 03/17/2012

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LOLOLOLOLOL..........nooooooo you aren't judgmental at all!!! And, just like I told Little Miss, I will comment on what I see fit to comment on. Thanks. And if you don't want people commenting on what you say, stay out of public forums. Otherwise, suck it up. Problem solved. Until then, expect people to reply.

[deleted account]

Get off the couch? Heck, some days it's hard enough to get out of bed! ;)



I never wanted to go the disability route. I WANTED to be able to do this on my own. It's why I've been on welfare for the past 4 years TRYING to 'suck it up' and all the other things that have been drilled in my head by people like my ex... and even my NP (nurse practitioner... who I won't ever go back to). Do a few blood tests that come back normal and figure there's 'nothing' wrong w/ me.... Yeah, that's been my experience w/ 'doctors' so far.



Finally got a hold of some partial medical reports from when I was a kid and I've finally got an appointment w/ the neuropsychologist, so 'hopefully' I'll actually get the help that I NEED. Unfortunately, there will always be people like my ex who think it's all a crap excuse. I could probably throw my medical reports in his face and he'd still think I'm just a loser trying to mooch off people for money.... THAT is the stuff I remember and dwell on because THAT is the stuff that I hear most... :(

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/17/2012

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You haven't a clue what I know now do you? Until you do, don't comment to anything I have said.



I have been down the worst roads. I am not going to sit here and make excuses for anyone. This is why they are there in the first place. Stand up, take control and make something of yourself for your children.



If you cannot, then seek disability. If you do not have a disability, then you are just as able as the next person to use the resources available and do something about your situation.



Don't give me the "oh poor me" BS. There is no such thing as "beyond their control". The resources are there for them too. They just HAVE to want it!



I understand Teresa's situation. Have I been there? Very close. However, she is in a different need category, she needs long-term. Thus why she is seeking disability.

Mother - posted on 03/17/2012

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"Anyone can get a hand-up, they just need to get off of their couch and do it... It doesn't come free, only the monthly cheque does. ;) "



--It is comments such as this that speak WAY louder then other statements. It is a judgmental statement. Just because YOU had a different experience, does not mean people who can not seem to get off assistance, AREN'T getting off their couch. What a horrible thing to say. You do not know their situation.



These people are not lazy. Some have just been handed situations beyond their control. AND by vocalizing such heinous statements only makes said recipients feel WORSE then they already do. If you tell someone what a loser they are enough times, some begin to believe it.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/17/2012

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No... you just jump on the welfare bashing band wagon w/out KNOWING the in's and out's of another person's life. ;) And no, I know... you aren't judging all the mom's on welfare. Just the ones not actively getting off of it....



No, Teresa. I have said the ones I KNOW. I don't know you.



However, if you live in Canada (I don't know where you live) you should be on disability then, not welfare. If you have depression or the alike, disability is where it lies, not welfare. Welfare is meant to be temporary. A temporary means to help a parent get all the resources available to them free of cost, so that they can get out in society and manage on their own. If you have a medical issue and see a doctor for it and it is a long term requirement to receive help, then it should be disability.

[deleted account]

No... you just jump on the welfare bashing band wagon w/out KNOWING the in's and out's of another person's life. ;) And no, I know... you aren't judging all the mom's on welfare. Just the ones not actively getting off of it....



To LOOK at me... I would be one of the one's you are judging. Heck, even my own husband just thought (still thinks, but he's my EX now) I was lazy. No matter how many times I tried to explain my pain and constant fatigue to him.... he didn't believe me and thought it was all just an excuse cuz he can't FEEL what I feel.



It's posts like this that make me feel like an utter failure (and I know that no one can MAKE me feel anything, but that goes to another area of issues) even though I know I'm doing all I'm capable of... actually I'm currently doing MORE than I am capable of which is why I'm constantly on the verge of complete burn out. :(

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/17/2012

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Anyone can get a hand-up, they just need to get off of their couch and do it... It doesn't come free, only the monthly cheque does. ;)



Jodi---

I am NOT saying all low income parents are bad parents, I am not saying ANY low income parents are bad parents (and neither did MeMe), but here are a few points, and this is from my personal experience with MANY low income mothers as I live in a relatively low income neighborhood.



Get over it, no one said ALL people on low-income are bad parents. If that is what you want to read into it, that is your problem and you can go right ahead.



Honestly, those of you arguing back and forth about how we are all mean for saying the low-income equals bad parents, truly have a tough time comprehending what is actually been said. It really is sad. It is sad that someone's expereince is looked at as being ignorant. Unfortunately, it are those that are summing us up to persecuting all on low-income to being bad parents, that have a hard time with degeneralizing.



Maybe you should go back and copy and paste where any of us said ALL low-income parents are bad parents. Prove it!

Mother - posted on 03/17/2012

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"Just reading the OP was enough for me to grab my crackers and ginger ale for the rising nausea, but after reading through some pages I think I may have actually contracted the Norovirus because it's about to come out of both ends at this point...I think this thread is so insulting on so many different levels where to begin is the question of the week. "



-- AGREED. I can't believe this thread is still going. There are bad parents in EVERY class and income bracket. I've been on the system and I completely disagree that low income equates bad parents. Some people are stuck. Sometimes it is their fault and other times, it is not. Stuck up snobs that sit in cushy chairs, judging at whim, certainly don't help the situation.



AND I would like to CORRECT and clarify something. While I'm sure there are some people who take hand outs......I think MOST recipients would prefer a HAND UP!!

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/17/2012

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Tah--



I don't believe anyone here has said it was easy to get off of the system. I think when explaining the 8 years I dedicated to getting off of the system, it is apparent how darn difficult it really was. Actually, it is much easier to ride the system. It takes a lot of effort to pull yourself up and gain control of your life. However, the way I see it is, it is what a parent must do. If you want a good life for your child, you have to put the most dedication and effort you ever have in to your life. To me that is what helps make a good parent, when coming from poverty.



If you work many jobs in order to provide for your children, then you are a striving to be a good parent. You have your child's best interest at heart. If you ride the system and sit at home all day and do nothing to help yourself, then you do not have your child's best interest at heart. It is these people I am speaking of.



Again, yes it is very very hard to get off of the system. Here in Canada though, we have the resources available to help you get off. Too many people don't want to take that effort. It is too much work. The light at the end of the tunnel is just to far from their grasp, so they decline and decide to just stay where they are. That is not a dedicated, good parent. I could not call myself a good parent if I was still on welfare, sitting at home. I would be teaching my children that it is OK to accept hand outs for life and to not work your butt off to get somewhere in life.



Getting off of welfare was the hardest thing I have ever done. I did it though. I did it for my daughter. I did it for myself. I did it for society. I did it for the next person that needs the resources. I gave up my spot in welfare, so that the next person that really needs it, as I did, can get it and work towards becoming a successful citizen of their Country.



I still frequent where I lived for 8 years. My son is in a Daycare there, it still costs me $800/month, so I don't have him there because it is any cheaper than in my own neighbourhood. I have him there because the teachers are excellent and because I want to make sure the Daycare remains open for all of those that have subsidized spots because they are trying their damnedest to get somewhere in life.



When I am in the community, I can tell who is trying to help themselves and who isn't. It is rather apparent. My hat goes off to every single person on welfare that is using it to their benefit. I pull my hat down to all of those that are abusing it and not doing anything to become the person they could be, for their kids and for themselves. Too many people ride the system and I am sorry but there is absolutely no excuse. If you have a 2 legs and a heart beat, then you can get up and do the very best you can to suceed. It is not easy no but it is worth every single, sweat, blood and tear you put into it.



You know, I lost out on some very important things by pushing myself hard to get off of welfare. I missed out on a lot of my daughter's growing up. I was so busy working at getting us into a better situation that I missed some important things. However, it was either stay on welfare and barely be able to feed and clothe her or work my butt off and miss out on some special parts of her young life. I chose the latter because I would not have been able to enjoy her young years if I was always worried about how I would take care of her properly. Now, I have been able to enjoy her for the past 7 years. She has been able to enjoy her life in a much better way, since she is not worrying about when she will eat again. She doesn't havw to watch me cry because I cannot wash her cloths, rather I have to use the tub to do so, or how I will pay the electric bill. This is how it was when we were on welfare. That is no life for a child that did not ask to come into this world. It is the parents obligation to fight for their children to have prosperous lives, not a life full of saddness and fear....



Again, here in Canada, there is no excuse to live off of welfare forever or even for years and years. It is meant to provide a temporary helping hand. However, no one is just going to hand you a better life, you actually have to get off your butt and do that yourself.



ETA:

I apologize to each person here that I have not properly gotten my opinion and/or experience across to. I by no means am saying that all people that are low-income are bad parents. Simply because I do not believe that. I know there are people and many at that, that are low-income and are wonderful parents and I know middle-income and upper-income parents that suck too. The big difference is that the middle and upper class children are being fed, clothed and have a roof over their heads.



However, in my experience, in the places I have lived, the majority are not good parents. Whether it be due to education, willingness, self respect, upbringing, etc. It doesn't matter. I refuse to believe that there is anyone out there that does not want to be someone special and have good things in life. I do however, know that too many in the area I lived, do not bother for what ever their excuse is. I feel for their children because they are the innocent party in the mix. They deserve more. The deserve for their parents to get up and take control and action of their own lives.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 03/17/2012

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****MOD WARNING****



I have had to delete 2 posts for bickering and personal attacks. If this continues, this thread will be locked down, AND official warnings will be sent along with a temporary block of 24 hours from this site. Lets get back on track ladies. Enough is enough.



DM MoD ~Little Miss~

Tah - posted on 03/17/2012

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Just reading the OP was enough for me to grab my crackers and ginger ale for the rising nausea, but after reading through some pages I think I may have actually contracted the Norovirus because it's about to come out of both ends at this point...I think this thread is so insulting on so many different levels where to begin is the question of the week.



Those who think it's such a cakewalk to get out of an endless cycle of poverty have probably never TRULY been there or have probably had some help getting out that may not be available to everyone. Just because you were once a crackhead and poor does not make you the official judge on all things in the way of that. I will say that as almost everyone here knows, I grew up in the inner city, Philly to be exact to the most loving and encouraging parents and my whole block was that way. My father worked many jobs while attending college and then the seminary and mom ran an in-home daycare(for parents who had to work 2-3 jobs to make ends meet) and a beauty salon out of the house. She encouraged us, put us in activities and we had tighter supervision than maybe gitmo did. If my sisters wanted to take a bike ride, they had to literally map out their route.



We have all grown up to be productive members of society(4 nurses,small business owners, accountants..etc etc) and to this day if I go out to the mailbox in my tweety bird pj pants I think my mom will swoop in out of the blue and have my tail. That was how most of the parents I knew were.Yes there were bad seeds and the ones caught in the endless cycle of welfare, but they were NOT the worst parents I have seen. I have not lived in an low-income neighborhood since I was nineteen but I have seen some of THEE worst parenting in the better neighborhoods.



I was just telling my little group of friends that i had to stop my car for maybe the 4th-5th time in 6 or so months to grab someone's child out the street the other day and return them to their parents before I or someone else hit them upon return into our community. I don't see giving into your child's every whim and giving out no punishment or allowing them to tell you how much they hate you in a store while you pet their pertty(yes i spelled it that way on purpose) little heads any worse than a swat to the bum. In my middle class neighborhoods I have seen endless persons homes where I couldn't see the floor. I even started threads on it here and other places wondering what in the blue blazes these parents were doing, esp if mom was at home all day' that would yield to their laundry doubling as a carpet. I have been offered to come into these houses for a cup of coffee and if I have to walk over your thong and then put out an APB on your coffee maker because your counter is so cluttered and dirty...No thanks, water at my house is fine. Why is your three old at the park by themselves, because we live in a nice neighborhood nothing can happen?....The sheer lack of parenting I have seen while living with people who can, what afford to be?...is astonishing.



The saying of when you know better you do better can be applied to all income brackets and situations as far as I am concerned. I agree with the person who states it's found more in low income places because that is where the microscope and the expectation is. For those who think it's such an easy cycle to overcome maybe on your weekly trip to volunteer to read at an underprivileged school, or hand out bags of groceries at the food bank, since I know you would not only want to JUDGE but HELP these people, you can actually stop and have a conversation with some of them. You may be surprised and actually think before you speak the next time, of someone other than yourselves goodness forbid. The world is bigger than your backyard after all.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 03/16/2012

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I've been on I Can Has Cheeseburger too long... all I can think of posting to Maree is Fail.



But Mary your post is full of win. BTW I'm American so that automatically makes me good at everything including invading countries and parenting. :)



And I'm going to bed.

Linda - posted on 03/16/2012

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I don't think it's about being low income. When you know better you do better. I was a low income a single parent, but it was a choice on how I raised my children.

When you are from that environment you don't know that it is wrong, because you don't see anything different; so it's normal. It's really sad.

I made a choice to take my children out of the city even if I had to ride a city bus to get them somewhere else, I made sure that they experienced something else other than what they saw in the neighbor hood. At one time my oldest son @ 11-18 he thought I was the lamest mom ever because he was doing something else and not doing what his friends were doing. I packed lunches and took plenty of long walks and talks, parks, library trips, free museum passes, kite flying, camping trips, ice skating,swimming, kicking the ball, day trips, experiencing other cultures, listing to all types of music No I did not have the finest of linen and the shiniest gold but our life was rich my children didn't even know we were poor. So being poor (low income) is no excuse at all for being trifling. Now my oldest (20) is going to college in AZ and my other son (18) is graduating and will be going to school in WY and my youngest (16) is a sophomore when she graduates she wants to be a therapist and work with people who are hearing impaired.

My son was home recently and thanked me for not allowing him to do what others were doing and letting him see the world is bigger than what you see around you.

I admit it was hard being low income but being rich does not make you perfect.

Sarah - posted on 03/16/2012

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I'm Canadian Mary, I'm pretty sure I'm not a bad parent! :-)

(just to clarify, I knew you were joking).

Amy - posted on 03/16/2012

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my mom was phenomenal. patient, kind and well educated, but there was a time we were POOR. poor and too proud to use welfare etc. kids had two meals a day. mom n dad ate once a day or every other day. [excuse my typing - nursing baby to bed ] My dad read the hobbit to me when i was five. we didnt have a tv. sold it for money. spent our spring and summer tending the garden because we learned really fast that equaled food.



why i think some parents are "bad" - laziness or sheer lack of education. i've seen quite a few "Rich" high income folk in the stores yelling at their kids, bribing them to no ends as the child is screaming on about something because the parents care more about it being easy than right. being a parent is WORK. Some people work, some don't Some just keep them alive an go through some basic motions. but i don't live in large populated areas. i'm middle of nowhere ohio.

Elizabeth - posted on 03/16/2012

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Seems like this thread got a little out of hand, but I guess any topic that has 2 sides will do that! :)



I have been on both ends of the spectrum, and while it may seem that income is the main factor in good or poor parenting, I think it's actually education. (or lack of) I have been very poor and a Mum, and my situation in life has changed over the years so that money is not necessarily a problem anymore. But I find that there is a direct connection between not having money and being uneducated.



There are probably many good parents who have very little money, but there are also many (probably most) low income families that do not do a good job at parenting. I don't think this is because of the money, I think it's because of a lack of a good education. Just listen to how people talk.



I was a teenage Mum many years ago without the help of my parents. I started off not knowing much about childcare and parenting, but the library became my best friend. I got my high school diploma. I did some university courses. And I can tell you this... An uneducated parent may love their child deeply, but won't know about nutrition, the importance of reading to their child, how to set guidelines and handle behaviour issues without resorting screaming or smacking.



Ignorance is not bliss. It's the cause of poor parenting in my opinion. It's not so much the money, though they are related.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/16/2012

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Megan

Thank you. Honestly, I was just getting at the fact that there are definitely low-income parents out there that are great parents. You being one of them. I was one of them too. I wanted it to be understood that I was in no way saying that ALL low-income parents are bad parents. Since I do not believe that for a second..



Yes, in NS the schools are funded equally, of course though it does go by the amount of children per school. The monies though are divided up on a per kid basis. So, if one school has 1000 kids but the next has 300, then both schools will get the funds according to the amount of children. That only makes sense. Our schools here, in Halifax NS, thus far, are fairly decent. My comment was in regard to the low-income communities not receiving a fair amount to fund them, which is utter crap, As a matter in fact, they receive more. However, in NS, they have also been cutting schools but they have been building new ones to accomodate for the closed schools. Structuring them to hold more children. Where we have a shortage of teachers, they had to do this. We have a shortage because NS is a very pricey place to live. Many teachers move away because they simply cannot afford to work here and they would make more in Ontario or the States.



These schools have a breakfast program, where the one that my daughter goes to does not. Which is how it should be. There are very few children that are needy of food where we currently reside. Where we used to reside though, there is a very high percentage. I fund the breakfast program each and every time I shop at Wal-Mart, which is a good 3 times or more a week. I give them $2 on top of my bill every single time for the Breakfast Program ($6/week if not more).



Below is a link to a PDF in regard to how the Government is trying to help those less fortunate children within our Canadian schools. They are trying, it just takes a bit if time. It also shows that there is a high percentage of children that are poverty stricken. It's so sad. It makes my gut drop and feel empty, it makes my heart feel heavy. I feel for these children. I wish I could take them all in and make them happy and fed...



No one can tell me that poverty, extreme poverty does not affect a child to the bone. I can't and will never understand why, here in Canada, the parent(s) would not grab the resources available to them to make a better life for their children. We have the resources in Canada. If you want to go to school, the Government will pay for 2 years of secondary education. You can take anything, you can check out the job market and take a course that is in high demand. Pretty much guarenteeing a job match once graduated. I will never understand. Simply because I was poor, very poor. However, I grabbed the bull by it's horns and made myself change. It was the hardest thing I have ever done but it was also the most gratifying thing I have ever done.



I also understand, though, that not everyone is currently able to take advantage of the system. I know Megan you could not, since you are not a Canadian Citizen yet. I also know, you more than likely would not need to, since you already have a career. However, for all of those that can, those that are citizens, the resources are available for them. There is no excuse to not use them as intended.



http://www.ctf-fce.ca/publications/Brief...

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 03/15/2012

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Meme, I get child support and we use the 100$ from the universal child tax credit plus go to the food bank. Does that clear everything up for you now? Oh and just so you don't need to ask anything else, my husband is now working PT at Staples while working on his game designs. He's actually emailing Club Penguin as I type this.



"So not true in Canada. Not one bit. There are plenty of teachers that are great and work in the schools in the lower income communities. In Canada, NS, teachers have to move around every 5 or so years. So, you get a variety in all schools.... What BS. All schools are funded equally. Some schools don't put as much effort into raising additional money to support certain aspects of their school but that is not only in low income places. "



Maybe in NS, but not in BC. My husband's school district in the Shuswap region is one of the most underfunded in the province. The funding goes by size and population and need. At least that's how it's supposed to go. But just ask Ms Christy Clark how everything is supposed to go. The teachers in our province can't even get decent pay and neither can our health care workers. The schools in the Mission district in Kelowna do a lot of fund raising BTW and so do the schools in the Shuswap district. But the provincial government can't expect the districts to do everything on their own.



The school system in BC is going to hell in a hand basket because our wonderful premier wants to force teachers to have 35 kids in their classrooms with no limit on special needs students- reguardless of the money in the school district. So no, in Canada the schools are NOT funded equally. But at the same it also isn't realistic since there are schools with more or less children.

Maree - posted on 03/15/2012

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Bloody hell Meme you had my heart racing then...i thought you were serious and started typing really fast saying that you must have got the wrong idea...



Ok i've calmed down now....



ME !!!! Off the wall...hang on i think you may have mistaken me for someone else.



And another thing,I don't have a judgmental bone in my body...lol



Have a good sleep.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/15/2012

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Saying that i make you sound like a trashy drug addict....well Meme....do i make you feel like a drug addict??? Because you were low income...



I am disgusted Maree... Now I am a drug addict? Well, I may as well go and find my pipe, since I must be one, since you said it! LOL



I am sorry, I just had to. Maree, even though you can be off the wall at times, you friggen crack me up!! Thanks for the good laugh before I go off to bed. ;)

Jodi - posted on 03/15/2012

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"I have nothing nice to say about them " lol, I can't help myself...but don't we all know the saying that goes with this? If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all? lol I'm truly sorry, I know that that saying is so juvenile, but it was drilled into me as a child, so I have to! ;)



I get it, there are people I don't like, that I don't associate with (not like, groups of people, certain individuals), but I don't call them names, not to their face, not behind their backs. It's just human decency IMO. But, we all muck it up sometimes, and I get it.

Maree - posted on 03/15/2012

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Jodi, I am just so sick of the "people"...i hate to even associate them with people but if i must be nice then ok.....that treat everyone else like rubbish,steal from them,let their kids run wild,take from the government at the tax payers expense,do NOTHING to better themselves,cause myself and many other people to be too scared to let their kids out. I refuse to be nice to these "people" or to try to understand how they have come to think it is their right to be a disgusting excuse for a human being. I have nothing nice to say about them and i believe their kids should be taken (to give them a chance) and they should be locked up....not given more money so they can buy drugs.



Sorry but it is how i feel about certain "people"....i obviously don't know every low income family and i have absolutely no interest in getting to know them....or most other people really. I don't like people in general and from what i have experienced they are not worth my time and energy.

Maree - posted on 03/15/2012

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Saying that i make you sound like a trashy drug addict....well Meme....do i make you feel like a drug addict??? Because you were low income...



I must also be making myself look like a drug addict because as i said before i was also on government payments and low income....



If you are NOT a druggo or a poor excuse for a human being or a dole bludger then NO ONE....I repeat....NO ONE can MAKE you look like that. People make themselves look like that by their own behavior....quit with the excuses and quit putting blame on the government,the tax payer,society...whoever you happen to want to blame.



People need to take accountability for their own messed up lives and the sooner they do that and stop crying "poor me"...the better off we will all be.



oh and when i say "you" i am speaking generally and not about any particular person....or scum bag druggo..lol

Jodi - posted on 03/15/2012

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Maree, I realize you aren't calling ME a scumbag, I'm not worried. But we could be a little nicer, never hurt anyone. There is no need to be purposefully mean like that.

Maree - posted on 03/15/2012

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The ones in my area are just that...so i will call them that,i am not calling YOU a scum bag so don't worry about it.



And Toni I am a little confused as to how your comment is relevant to me let alone anything else..."people like me....making money by selling their body"...What the !!!!! Who is selling their body???



As for whether or not an irrellevant comment "feels nice"....ummmm,actually it makes no difference to me and my feelings are most certainly not hurt...but ok !!!!...

Jodi - posted on 03/15/2012

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Maree, could we possibly NOT start name calling? It's just common courtesy. You can feel however you like about whomever you like *without* the name calling. (i.e. scumbag houso bludgers, or scummy babies or scumbag mates etc etc)

Toni - posted on 03/15/2012

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Maree- Its a bit difficult to not get 'so damned uptight' when you are making us sound like trashy drug addicts that dont have any plans for life.

How would you feel if I started saying that paople like you only care about money and dont give a shit about your kids and that the only way they make money is to sell their body?

Even though it is not directed AT you, it still doesnt feel nice does it?

Maree - posted on 03/15/2012

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Once again....like in other threads,if you have done nothing wrong then why throw a hissy fit????



If you have nothing to feel guilty about then you should stop carrying on like crazy people and coming across like you have something to feel guilty about...



If you ARE or WERE a shitty parent if and when you were low income then own it !!!



If not,get over it...



I personally wouldn't be defending the scum bag houso bludgers that would sooner rob my house,steal my car and bully my kids than to defend me in any way....they can go back to the hole they came out of and hang out with their scum bag mates,f@#k around and keep making scummy babies for the rest of us to pay for.



For the low income people who are decent,you should hold your head high and continue to be a good parent and contribute to society as best you can...don't get so damned uptight.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/15/2012

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I agree Sarah.... ;)



I have no problem with another's point of view. It is when they say mine is wrong, when I have an issue... I have only spoke of where I live and my experiences, I cannot speak of where anyone else lives or their experiences.



I find it funny though, how I have even said that I have been down and out, was for 8 years but that I was a good parent. How other's here have missed that and have taken my experiences of living in a poverty stricken community, out of context. To say, that because of where I have lived and what I have witnessed that I am saying everyone in that same situation, is the same. If I was saying that, then I am saying that I too, was a bad parent. I am not saying that. I am simply saying that in the communities I lived, while on welfare, that I witnessed the majority having very poor parenting skills. Oh how, that gets twisted and turned to me being ignorant to everyone's situation. *sigh*



ETA: After being attacked and told I was childish, I have all of my posts being marked as funny by that very person. I marked two of theirs funny because of the personal attacks. I have not personally attacked anyone. *laughing my ass off, rolling my eyes*

Sarah - posted on 03/15/2012

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Sorry, it meant to read, Research shows a correlation between poorer education and DECREASED parental coping, not increased.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/15/2012

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Nope I am on vacation! Thanks for the concern though. ;)

**Jackie** - posted on 03/15/2012

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I was going to jump in until I read Janessa's comment...now I've read it all!!! Really?! I live in NJ and every kid gets the same teachers. The extra curricular activities are free and provide additional buses. I was in almost every sport there was and not once did our coach say "Ok, who has the most money and they will be put in the game!"



It's people like YOU that have this "I'm entitled" attitude....we will never grow as a country.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 03/15/2012

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Shawnn--

Well, I joined this group, thinking it was for women who enjoyed a good debate. After reading quite a few of the posts, both in this thread, and the rest, I now see that I was sorely mistaken.



In particular, this thread was NOT a debate. It was a rant against low income parents. It wasn't even cleverly disguised as a debate!



I'm not low income now, but I have been. And, I, like Monique and several others, have been quite upset by the tone of this thread. I mean, seriously? Some of you actually question the workers about the private lives of OTHER parents that use your daycare? You're seriously THAT bored that you can't mind your own business?



And you judge people by whether they're on assistance or not. Not by what they are like, as a person, or how they actually do things but by one thing: the word "welfare". And you are automatically assuming that it's a blanket condition for everyone on assistance.




Wow Shawnn, attacking or not?? I have to say YES. I would say you were looking for other's that have lived the experiences they were speaking of to have to defend themselves. SInce I never blanketed anyone. Again, I lived it, on welfare for 8 years... PERIOD.



I would like to know though, what you were hoping to debate? How everyone that is low-income is an awesome parent? If you wanted to actually debate then you should have done so. Instead you attacked us for our experiences. Whatever...

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