Men's rights

Merry - posted on 03/04/2011 ( 100 moms have responded )

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I'm watching a dr phil rerun on Oprah network. It's about these men who claim they shouldn't be responsible for a child they created if they didn't want to be a father.
One story is a man who supposedly made it clear to his gf that he did not want to be a dad, she said she was on birth control so no problem. They have sex, she conceives, he said right away I want nothing to do with it. She takes him to court for child support, he is ruled to pay. He fights back to get his 'rights' upheld that he didn't want to be a dad, and he made it clear, and it was her choice to have the baby and he shouldn't be responsible.

Another story was a couple who had married and had two kids when they found out the man had fathered a child right before they met. Two years after the child was born was the first time the father was told about the baby. The old gf wanted money, but didn't want hm yo be involved with the baby, or toddler I guess by then! The father claims he shouldn't have to pay because it was two years before he was told, and it was a one night thing.

What do you think the laws should do ith men who fathered a child, but don't want the baby?
Should there be a time limit on the mother to inform the dad? Should the dad be allowed to sign off rights in the first weeks or months of the pregnancy? If he isn't told for years should he be free of responsibility? What about a man who wants the child but the woman wants an abortion? Or the dad wants the child to be adopted but the woman wants to keep it and wants him to pay her?

Obviously men and women have different roles in parenting, but should they have closer to same rights? What's the law like in other countries? This is all in America btw.

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Isobel - posted on 03/06/2011

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so IF it were medically possible, we would all be happy with transporting unwanted pregnancies to another woman who wanted the baby and being forced to pay a percentage of our paycheck every month for the rest of our lives?

cause that's what we do to men right now.

Merry - posted on 03/06/2011

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If abortion was illegal, then I'd say dad couldn't opt out of responsibility either. But fact is a woman can abort her responsibilities, so also the man should be able to do the same.

If we can't force motherhood on a woman, we can't force fatherhood on men.

The baby gets the raw deal most of the time anyways, if the man doesn't want to be a dad he might pay the money,but the kid is still with out a loving father.

Rosie - posted on 03/06/2011

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while i see your points, i just cannot get over the whole you know what happens when you have sex thing. how about the men stop whoring around and take responsibility for their actions as well? but they're men so they're not whores right?? i'm tired of a society where men are responsible for NOTHING, and continue to do it over and over with no consequence. wanna rape someone? pick a girl who's dressed in a miniskirt and tank top- you won't have to spend a day in jail. want to have sex without ever having to worry about pesky condoms or babies again?? SURE!! why not??

having this be law would just give men a free pass to whore around, not wear a condom, and leave a whole bunch MORE fatherless kids around.

Sharon - posted on 03/06/2011

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PFT - babies are not a reward. they are a natural biological occurance.

If you were in a committed relationship and you both wanted the baby then his ass OWES child support.

I stand by what I said.
Time to suck it up girls. You don't want a baby - stop whoring around. You want the baby to have a daddy - be in a committed relationship and plan for it.

It was meant for those who think a child HAS to have a daddy.

yes men are whores. I just read a news article about some asshole who fathered over 20+ kids and owes MILLIONS in childsupport and is now in jail. he can't/won't pay child support either. DUH. he's a WHORE and a half. I wonder how many ruined lives he's left behind. Why did those women sleep with him? Why did they have a child with him? nasty as hell.

His dick, his sperm - but YOU carry the baby and if you walk away and don't leave an adequate supply of diapers behind - YOU go to jail. Odd. that doesn't happen to guys. think of it as the equalizer factors.

Like another post'er, I've known to many bitches who thought "I'll get knocked up by this military guy and be set for life." Fuck I hate them. They LIE LIE LIE about their birth control, reproductive ability, everything to get that baby in their belly so they can "score."

[deleted account]

"It takes two to make a baby, birth control or not"

Then why is the woman the only one who gets the choice of whether or not to have that baby?

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Christina - posted on 03/11/2011

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For all these women who want the father to "pay" child support because his sperm was magical and happened to mate with the egg, how many of you are willing to give the father 50/50 custody of the child? I think that 50/50 custody should be immediate if mom demands dad be "responsible" for the child. You want men to be financially obligated to their children, then as women we need to be willing to hand our kids over to their dads to help raise them 50% of the time so they can be financially responsible, and emotionally, and physically! I know several women who pop out as many babies as they can, all by different men, so they can sit on their butts and live off of foodstamps and child support.

[deleted account]

"Women who do not want babies use protection, men who do not want babies use protection and never take the word of your partner that she/he has protected you from parenthood you take that protection yourself."

Ya, that's great and all, but what about that man who DOES protect himself and winds up pregnant anyhow. A woman can choose an abortion......what recourse does the man have? "You play, you pay..."! That's just not realistic, and certainly not fair!

Jenni - posted on 03/10/2011

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Situation one: I agree with those who say it is the man responsibility as well to use back up birth control. It shouldn't be entirely the woman's responsibility. Of course I know this situation doesn't state whether or not the man in this case was. If he was taking precautions as well I would support him wanting to opt out. But of course that's a he said/she said problem. So I guess I would be for him having the opportunity to opt out in the same number of months the woman has to preform an abortion. But that's a sticky situation... if the woman is really trying to trap him, what's to stop her from hiding the pregnancy until it's too late.



I honestly feel the the number of woman who would be so selfish and low to bring a child into the world for the sole purpose of a free ride or an attempt to *trap* the man is relatively low. They do exist... a man should know that in the same way a woman shouldn't trust a man who *claims* he is infertile just to get out of wearing a condom. It is both parties responsibility to use BC and back up BC if they don't want children. Accidents happen though... but if both parties are protecting themselves thoroughly, chances are extremely low.



I really don't like the second situation at all. There should be a cut off time the woman is allowed to go after support. And unless the father is deemed unfit he should not be denied access to the child by the mother. I'm pretty sure here in Canada that it is illegal to deny access without just cause.



I am all for equal parenting rights for men and women. But in some ways I see opting out of parental rights/support a slipperly slope. As many women out there that are taking advantage of men, there are equally the same amount of men taking advantage of women in these situations. Refusing to wear condoms, refusing to pay support even though they were irresponsible. It's easy for a man to make the decision not to wear a condom and get a woman pregnant and sign a paper that says he wants nothing to do with the baby. Much, much harder for a woman to decide whether or not to abort or hold full responsibility for her unborn child. I believe woman already get the short end of the stick when it comes to parenting and birth control. It is already considered to be mostly a woman's responsibility. It opens up a can of worms where even less men will be willing to practice they're own BC. And if the father isn't paying.... these women who are looking for a free ride through their children will take their meal ticket out of government funding.



If you think women are *equals* in todays society, I think you're off base. Just look at how a woman's sexuality is viewed in our society. A sexually active woman is still called a slut. We still make on average less pay than men. We are still generally expected to be the homemaker. BC and child-rearing is still considered to be nearly entirely our responsibility. We are still protrayed in the media as sex objects. Called bitches and ho's in nearly every rap song written. Used by men for sex. We are not yet equals.



I do sympathis with men who were genuinely trapped, not told about possible paternity or denied access to their children. And I do think those men deserve more rights. I would consider the idea of them being able to opt out in the same amount of time a woman has to get an abortion... but I even feel that could be a slipperly slope. I absolutely believe a woman should be given a time frame in which she can go after support. And a man should NEVER be denied access to his children unless he is deemed unfit.



Erin: "We clearly haven't come far enough in society when women continue blaming women for the wrongs of the world, and men get off scott free! I'm reading a book right now based in the 1850s, and some of these attitudes seem straight from that time :-/



Women are not evil little harlots who are hell bent on corrupting the noble hard-working gentleman with her feminine charm. Give me a break."



I couldn't agree more!! It's really backwards IMO. And like I said, I'm all for men's rights when it comes to parternity... but I'm also not willing to take steps backwards in women's rights either. We've worked too hard to take strides forward in equal gender rights since the 50's, the 40's, the 30's etc. It turns my stomach a bit that even us women are so quick to demean each other when it comes to the responsibilities of sex. Who calls more women sluts than other women? We are still being kept down in so many ways when it comes to our sexuality in society. We are the ones blamed when intercourse results in pregnacy... we are whoring around, or being deceitful, or lazy and after a free ride. It goes both ways. We shouldn't be held solely accountable because we are physically carrying the baby. Forced into abortion because we evily, selfishly and deceitfully fooled our men into inplanting us with their seed. Are we really so quick to adopt the attitude: Well, she was dressed like slut, She must have wanted it.

Rosie - posted on 03/10/2011

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i guess i'm trying to understand why it makes a difference if the mother didn't tell him until years later? how is the kid any less his?

Anna - posted on 03/10/2011

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okay...if a man doesnt want to have babies he should *use a condom and spermicide and withdraw* (not a direct attack at you krista, just some of these altenatives seem a bit extreem). on a one night stand, no question about it! but in a long term relationship? when she is or says she is on the pill/the injection? spermicide okay, but still a condom after one or two years? and withdrawing? does it really have to be so clinical? doesnt that take away some of the enjoyment in sex?! it would for me... i got pregnant to my ex while on the pill. honest accidents happen (didnt carry to full term. a good thing) and i know one woman who said she was one contraception and got pregnant, trying to keep a man and another who did the same because she wanted a good looking sperm doner. so those women are out there. or maybe i just know some messed up people...lol.

what it comes down to (and i know there is an emotional toll), but at the end of the day a woman can choose to get an unwanted pregnancy terminated. shouldnt a man be able to sign a paper and "terminate" his rights and obligations? (this is not a free pass to have unprotected sex and babies like bunnies with no consequences)

[deleted account]

Sorry Laura, I was actually addressing the OP Laura's cases. I actually agree with you on a man's right to give up responsibility in the same amount of time a woman has to decide on termination. Well, I sort of agree. The old school hard-nose in me is still saying, "if he's dumb enough to go in wet, then he's only being dumb and playing Russian Roulette". :-)

My boys are screwed.

Beverly - posted on 03/09/2011

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Jenny, that is very drastic!! This is not always a great place to live, but one of the good thing is we still have choices. Thank God we still have the right to make our own choices, bad or good and to know we and we alone will have to live with those choices sometimes for the rest of our lives. Everyone has to be mature enough before they take on the act of SEX and that's the bottom line. Men, women, boy's and girl's are all equally responsible for what happens after. Not one more than the other. Equal, unless of rape.

Isobel - posted on 03/09/2011

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I said earlier...I wasn't addressing these particular cases...just the fact that in order to have a fair and just society, men MUST have the same option to forgo an accidental pregnancy that women have. (and the decision must be made in the same amount of time)

[deleted account]

In both of those cases, Laura, I believe the men should pay. If they didn't want to father babies, they could have taken responsibility for themselves... and worn a condom. However, the second man who ended up with the surprise package should also be given rights to be involved in the child's life. If the woman is taking the money, the man has a right to know his child.

Let's say a man takes precautions and wears a condom, but the girl gets pregnant anyway. It is then the responsibility of BOTH parties to decide what way to go. If the girl wants to terminate, for whatever reason, unfortunately the guy can try to convince her otherwise and even offer to take the responsibility after it's born, but really because it is her body only she can decide that one. If the girl does NOT want to terminate, but the boy does (and had been wearing a condom), he should be able to have a legal document drawn up (that both parties sign) stating that he doesn't want the child and waives his rights, and she understands this and has no recourse for later legal action.

It's really about personal responsibility, not trust. As Beverly said, "You play, you pay." if you think of pregnancy being akin to an STD, would you just trust the other person doesn't have anything or would you protect yourself against contracting a possibly deadly disease.

Isobel - posted on 03/09/2011

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Yeah...I get a little sick of hearing "let's not bother trying to make the world fair" too :(

Jenny - posted on 03/09/2011

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Well I'm off to the rope store, this is a society I do not care to be a part of.

Beverly - posted on 03/09/2011

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Jenny, no it isn't fair. As I said before be sponsible for yourself and don't trust anyone but yourself. Women who do not want babies use protection, men who do not want babies use protection and never take the word of your partner that she/he has protected you from parenthood you take that protection yourself. I know many would love to think that the man/lady their with is truthful about everything, but we know that isn't always true. I had a married friend who didn't want children and lied to her boy friend stating she would love to have children, so they married. You guessed it she was taking birthcontrol and told him it just wasn't happening. She even put on the tears. You see she thought she could convince him to change his mind about kids it never happened. so ps. he accidently found the pills. Naturally he was devasted and they divorced. Unfortunantly you can't fully trust anyone these days. It an be a big deal when we decide to indulge in sex. As my mom taught me, " A moment of pleasure----can ruin you for a life time!"

[deleted account]

I would click "funny" if I could, but all I could give you was a thumbs up, "like".....pffft! They better figure this shit out soon.

Where's my "irritating" button?

Isobel - posted on 03/09/2011

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pretty much Dana...it's a little step closer to being fair...it'll never get all the way there though :(

[deleted account]

"I wouldn't support allowing him to walk away from responsibility after the baby's born."

What about in the case where the mother doesn't tell him until the baby is 2, or 5, or 10? Too bad, so sad?

Rosie - posted on 03/09/2011

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maybe the solution would be to try to prosecute women for intentionally getting pregnant. although it would be hard to prove, unless there was a taped confession or something.

Jenny - posted on 03/09/2011

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And if you read my reply you would see I acknowledged her points. Yes it a difficult thing but that doesn't mean we should allow gaps in the system to fraud men out of money for the rest of their lives because of unscupulous women. The sex I was referring to in my post would be of the one night stand variety, an ongoing relationship becomes even more difficult to catagorize.

Will you acknowledge that some pregnancy cases are unfair to men such as lying about birth control in an ongoing, trusting relationship or hiding a child for years and then coming back to demand money?

Beverly - posted on 03/09/2011

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Jenny you need to read Krista's post. She has spelled it out to you very well. I will say it again, no there is no comparison in a sperm bank and with having sex. A donation of sperm from a penis in a cup as you should know is for the sole purpose to share that with a person/person's who wants to have a baby or as a couple who can't conceirve. Come on now, having sex for pleasure and donating sperm are very different. I'm trying to be polite here, but really do you see the difference now??? Maybe someone else here can explain this better?

Krista - posted on 03/09/2011

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I don't know the answers but I do feel men should have some form of protection over reproductiive fraud. But to to do it in a way that does not open the doors to men getting off scott free from financial responsiblities would indeed be tough.

Well...Aldous Huxley had a solution for that, but you ain't gonna like it...

Jenny - posted on 03/09/2011

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I wouldn't either. It would have to be decided and signed off within the 1st trimester. A 1 parent adoption agreement kind of thing.

Witholhding pregnancy from the male partner should be a crime too. He has the legal right to know.

Isobel - posted on 03/09/2011

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I didn't read the stories...I just think that a man should have the right to formally give up his rights and obligations within the same amount of time that a woman has to decide whether or not to have an abortion.

I wouldn't support allowing him to walk away from responsibility after the baby's born.

Jenny - posted on 03/09/2011

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It is definately a difficult situation. Ideally men should be insisting on condoms 100% of the time. Ideally women should not use men as a ticket for a free ride. Ideally men shouldn't shrug off their responsibilites and should take care of their children in every way. I don't know the answers but I do feel men should have some form of protection over reproductiive fraud. But to to do it in a way that does not open the doors to men getting off scott free from financial responsiblities would indeed be tough.

Let's all just stop using each other for personal gain and get along in the meantime m'kay?

Krista - posted on 03/09/2011

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How do you do that, though? In the first story that Laura posted, if the man was that determined to not be a father, why would he put the onus for birth control solely upon the woman?

I guess that allowing men to not have to pay child support, simply because they claim they didn't want the child...that just seems like a Pandora's box to me. Yes, there are some women out there who will lie about being on birth control. But, if I was a betting woman, I'd wager that there are even MORE men out there who would use a law like this as an excuse to just not use condoms at all, and afterwards, can claim that they were upfront about not wanting to be a father, and it winds up as a he-said-she-said situation.

Isobel - posted on 03/09/2011

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But shouldn't we still strive for the two sexes to be as equal as possible in the mean time?

Krista - posted on 03/09/2011

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I don't see that as a real parallel though, Jenny. With sperm banks, things are very cut and dry. The mother is deliberately getting pregnant, with the understanding that all that she is receiving from the donor is sperm. And the sperm donor is also going into things with the clear legal understanding that he does not bear any fiduciary responsibility towards any children that may result from his donation.

With sex, it's a whole different ball of wax, because things aren't all arranged on paper ahead of time. If the woman is damned sure that she does not want to become a mother ,then she should be taking multiple precautions (pill + sponge, for example). If the man is damned sure that he does not want to become a father, then he should be taking multiple precautions (condom w/ spermicide + withdrawal).

Is it foolproof? No, it's not. There would still be the odd unplanned pregnancy. And at that point, some tough decisions would have to be made. And there IS a chance that someone's going to get the proverbial shit end of the stick. And it's not fair, but until we can all start reproducing via mitosis, it's what we're stuck with.

Jenny - posted on 03/09/2011

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You don't think there is a comparison? Single mother wants sperm so goes to sperm bank - can't demand child support. Single mother gets sperm directly from penis - can demand child support. Both cases the male wants nothing to do with having a baby and the female does. Both cases have a sperm donation. However if the male ejaculates into the woman instead of the cup we demand he signs over the rest of his life. I just don't see that as fair.

Beverly - posted on 03/09/2011

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Laura, you are refreshing! You are 110% right! Well what we believe to be right! How can one be more to blame them then the other? Well only in rape otherwise, if you agree to sex you must except what may come of that decission, both are equally responsible for the outcome. Case closed!!

Beverly - posted on 03/08/2011

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Now Jenny that's very simple to ans. NO because usually someone pays for that sperm or will donate their sperm because most likely there will be a father, mother or single parent who wants that child and they will support that child and not me/us! There's no comparison to a sperm donor and an unwanted child really!!

Isobel - posted on 03/08/2011

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I could care less whose fault the unplanned pregnancy is...my ONLY concern is that men and women should have EQUAL rights under the law. period.

Beverly - posted on 03/08/2011

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I believe all men must pay for the little person he helped to bring into the world. If the DNA proves he's the father he pays for his child. If he chooses to be a daddy it's his choice, but not his choice not to pay. Sometimes I know it's very difficult to find some of these loosers, but a little more effort should be placed on finding them because each and every one of us has to pay for their fun night!!!! I think that's why we have so many angry kids out there, father's not stepping up to the plate and some cases mother's also. Not a great feeling trying to grow up to be normal, happy and well adjusted without issues knowing dad/mom didn't want to acknowledge you even existed!

Beverly - posted on 03/08/2011

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I taught my son's, "You play you pay!" For 18 yrs. or sometimes even longer (some states make you contribute to their college) you will pay for this little human being you created.
I feel both he/she are responsible for the decission to have sex. I have heard many times over, " she told me she was on birth control! " I told my son's never and I mean never take it for granted that she will be telling you the truth, your responsible for your protection! Shame on you if you let her control the sex you have, and you do if you don't wear a condom. I know that no birth control is 100%, but that's the chance you make when you agree to have sex and girl/boy will have to deal this with responsiblity. Masterbation isn't what any young man wants all the time, but masterbation doesn't cost money, bring on STD's, pregnantcy's and unwanted babies and child support for 18yrs. or longer." If you play you pay!!!" Both girl and boy must be responsible for the outcome of their choice of having sex.

Erica - posted on 03/08/2011

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Both sides make very good points. It takes two to tango...but since women do have all the rights, maybe they should have a thing in the law that the guy can only sign off rights to three kids.... you know "1, 2, 3 strikes you're out"

So the guy can't be a whore and go around and say he doesn't want to be the father after three write offs. Which really it doesn't matter anyways, you still have men that run off and you never hear from them again, will try their best to run from having to pay.

Mel - posted on 03/08/2011

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those situations dont sound fair...especially where the guy wasnt told for 2 years until she wanted money. If a guy is going to pay child support he should know about the baby from day 1

Bexterwhite - posted on 03/08/2011

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Are men really that pathetic?
My son is eighteen, this is what i expect of him.
1. that if he has sex with someone that he is not in a relationship with he
1. makes sure his partner is over sixteen and not intoxicated


2. uses a condom [properly]

3. if the condom splits he makes sure he makes himself available to take the young lady to the fpc to discuss options or goes and gets the morning after pill right away from the chemist if she decides thats best.
[my son isn't into casual sex and i think the reason he isn't is because we talk about this shit and its not quite so casual after all!]
In a committed relationship [which he is in] i expect him to use a condom [unless he wants a baby] and TALK about babies contraception std's etc..... with his partner, go to the f.p.c with her, have a plan, know when her fertile time is likely to be.
If he gets a girl pregnant when he is not ready for fatherhood it wont be from being tricked, it will be from stupidity or complete accident after taking every precaution.
I as a mother expect this from my sons, i find it shocking that some of you expect so little from grown men.

Anna - posted on 03/08/2011

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yes most unplaned pregnancies are due to no birthcontrol being used. true. but it is scary how often men do get tricked into pregnancies! and i see people saying 'he knew sex lead to babies'...is he just supposed to masterbate until he decides he wants to have children?! thats a pretty raw deal. not haveing sex because you dont want to have children. (no contraception being 100%). when if a woman falls pregnant, she can deal with it how she sees fit. i just think men should be able to terminate their rights. but then dont show up ten years later saying "hi, im daddy"

Sharon - posted on 03/07/2011

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I wish I had thought to sue my ex- BF for kitty support. Asshole. We made the decision together to get a pair of kittens and when I dumped his drunk ass, he didn't contribute a fucking dime to their care!

Christina - posted on 03/07/2011

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I agree with men in certain cases. Women have all the rights here. We can adopt the kid out without the dad's permission if we lie and say we don't know who the dad is; we can abort the baby without their permission; and we can keep the baby without their permission and force them to pay us money! How is that right? Women have the RIGHT to choose parenthood AND financial responsibility (by keep the kid or opting out of parenthood by adoption or abortion) but men are expected to sit quietly and just hand out cash for choices they have no say on. However I do believe men should have to opt out of parenthood immediately into the child's life. But they can't go back later and want "rights" to the kid.

Sharon - posted on 03/07/2011

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Women blaming women? The scenarios are a woman hiding a pregnancy & baby for YEARS then coming forward to demand money.

And another scenario where he states up front he doesn't want kids - has that understanding with the woman and WHAM she gets pregnant and demands money.

yes - I blame those women.

Ez - posted on 03/07/2011

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We clearly haven't come far enough in society when women continue blaming women for the wrongs of the world, and men get off scott free! I'm reading a book right now based in the 1850s, and some of these attitudes seem straight from that time :-/

Women are not evil little harlots who are hell bent on corrupting the noble hard-working gentleman with her feminine charm. Give me a break. Do men have a brain in their heads? Can they just not keep it in their pants? Do we have to protect them from themselves?

Are there women who lie about BC in order to get pregnant? Yep, and that's about as low as it gets. But I believe, at least in my experience, they are the overwhelming minority. Most unplanned pregnancies happen because one or both parties don't even broach the subject of BC. So why should the woman be the only one to take responsibility for that?

And yes, women have the right to abortion. BUT MEN KNOW THAT!!! It may not be fair and equal, but it is reality.

Veronique - posted on 03/07/2011

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Jenny i think that's where society is getting at. Men are starting to not trust the women there with because women have all on there sides. If they want to get pregnant they can, they just have to look at the calandar and see if it's ovulation time and then let's seduce bf, oh and if he wants to leave i will grab him by the you know what and drag him to court and make him pay!!!!! Come on, we've come so far in society as women to now be doing this kind of stuff. Women have more respect for your self.

Jenny - posted on 03/07/2011

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Or should men never, ever trust the women they are with? Is that where we are at as a society?

Jenny - posted on 03/07/2011

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They get trapped by trusting women with ulterior motives. I too am sick of women treating men like a meal ticket. Don't get pregnant, go to school and get a damn job.

Veronique - posted on 03/07/2011

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The way a man gets trappe is if a women says Oh no i'm on the pill or Oh no doctors said i can't have babies so don't worry hun. That's how....... Like i said yes it takes 2 to make a baby and that the man is just at fault but if the man made it pretty clear that he does not want a baby well geeezzzz respect his choice and don't make a baby woth him and if you do don't have your hand in his wallet.

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