New thread about the 10 year old Mexician Mother

Hope - posted on 11/14/2011 ( 36 moms have responded )

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The last thread has been hijacked, so thought I might start another.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/10...

The more and more research I do, the more and more I feel for both the victim and her family. Even if they wanted to charge the father of this baby with rape, they had little or no chance of a conviction. Even though there is a law in place allow rape victims to have an abortion the chance you have that the authorities and the health care works are going to take you serious and do something about it is little to none. As far as I can see the family had 3 options 1. Go to the authorities, face mockery and get no solution 2. Go and get a back yard abortion and have a high risk of there daughter dying because they would be able to go get professional medical help without getting a jail sentence or 3. Allow there daughter to came the baby and have access to medical. If you were that girl or that girls parents what path would you choose. Remembering you are not in the USA, Australia or any other country were women are treated as equals.

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Kellie - posted on 11/14/2011

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I'm a little confused by this

"for example, a 12-year-old girl accused an adult of statutory rape, she had first to prove she was "chaste and pure."

How exactly does one prove their chasteness and purity AFTER they're violated?

It's really set up for them to fail before they start isn't it?

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 11/14/2011

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How about we just say the girl was sexually assualted, will that be proper wording for you Shannen?

Rape is rape, it doens't matter what age. If she was forced into having sex, that to me is rape.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 11/14/2011

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Ok, so I started reading through the last thread, and I saw this
"The term statutory rape generally refers to sex between an adult and a sexually mature minor past the age of puberty. Sexual relations with a prepubescent child, generically called "child molestation," is typically treated as a more serious crime. This girl was 10 and I doubt she was past puberty yet. "

I really think the last line needs to be addressed and read with open eyes. You, as a women, cannot get pregnant without reaching puberty.

Brittany - posted on 11/15/2011

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I believe people do not, sometimes, but enough thought into words. Wordage is how people win and lose cases in court.

This might be TMI but, I hit puberty at 8, yes eight years old.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 11/14/2011

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Then Shannen, why are you bringing up the difference? I read the older debate you were debating if it was molestation or rape because of the age.

This was a horrible thing to have happen to anyone especially a child. I believe that something has to be done about human rights violations for women who have trouble proving that sex crimes have been commited against them

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Kellie - posted on 03/22/2012

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I live in California and have so many rights and so do my daughters. In Mexico things are different. Women have no voice. In Mexico, standing up for your daughter may be a very dangerous thing. There is so much they can get away with. They have drug cartels, and it's so corrupt in a very dangerous way. The best thing that this family can do at this point is to keep their daughter comfortable. it's a different life than what we have here and in Canada.

Kellie - posted on 03/12/2012

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If this happened in the United States, a lot could be done and would be done. Since this in a foreign country, their choices are so slim. In most of these cases the family is ashamed and they deal with this privately. I feel so badly for this little girl.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 11/17/2011

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Yes Brittany. TMI, but I had boobs at 8 and had my first mensus at 11.

Let's just say this was a horrid crime and it's sad that the victim didn't receive justsice.

Karla - posted on 11/17/2011

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Criminal Sexual Misconduct with a Minor: -- There are many degrees, and our courts in the US will charge you with any and all that apply.

Puberty lasts 2 to 4 years. A 10 y.o. would have had to start developing at 6 or 8 to be fully developed at 10.

In a rational sane world she would not have been pregnant.

[deleted account]

Meggy, I'll say this just once more. I brought that whole point into another debate to make a point to someone else, Go and read it then you might understand. Marina brought it into this one and I was just trying to make it clear to her because she brought it up. I'm not debating the wording or difference between rape or child molestation in this debate because to me it is neither here or there.

Hope - posted on 11/14/2011

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statutory rape n. sexual intercourse with a female below the legal age of consent, but above the age of a child, even if the female gave her consent, did not resist and/or mutually participated. In all but three states the age of consent is 18, and the age above which the female is no longer a child varies although 14 is common. The theory of statutory rape is that the girl is incapable of giving consent, although marriage with a parent's consent is possible in many states at ages as low as 14. Intercourse with a female child (below 14 or whatever the state law provides) is rape, which is a felony. Increasingly statutory rape is not charged when there is clear consent by the female, particularly when the girl will not cooperate in a prosecution. Controversy continues over what constitutes "resistance" or "consent," particularly when some men insist a woman who said "no" really meant "yes."

Hope - posted on 11/14/2011

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molestation n. the crime of sexual acts with children up to the age of 18, including touching of private parts, exposure of genitalia, taking of pornographic pictures, rape, inducement of sexual acts with the molester or with other children, and variations of these acts by pedophiles. Molestation also applies to incest by a relative with a minor family member, and any unwanted sexual acts with adults short of rape.

[deleted account]

Good point Marina. Though I hate this whole topic and hate even more to use my girls as examples :(.... they turn 10 next month. They've certainly started puberty, but are definitely not developed enough to get pregnant. I can't imagine they will be at THAT stage for at least another year... maybe even 2. THIS poor girl in the discussion was/is much further along in development or she, obviously, wouldn't have become pregnant.

You are totally right though. The wording is semantics. Whether it should be called rape or molestation doesn't REALLY matter in the grand scheme of things. They are both horrifying crimes that should happen to NO ONE. :(

~♥Little Miss - posted on 11/14/2011

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It would be molestation, not rape Kellie. Semantics, just wordage.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 11/14/2011

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She may not have grown her pubes in fully, or completely developed her breasts, but the most important part of hitting puberty has already happened, which is her period. If she can conceive, that is the most important part of puberty. If she hadn't started, she would not be able to conceive. See what I mean?

And yes, I did read it Shannen, that is how I found the comment.

Kellie - posted on 11/14/2011

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Isn't rape rape regardless of how old a person is? for instance if a 2 year old was raped wouldn't you call it what it is (rape) rather than Child Molestation?

Either way, this girl (and many like her) was raped and I can't believe we're splitting hairs about it.

[deleted account]

No Meggy it clearly states that when a child is NOT PAST puberty then it is child molestation, which is a worse crime.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 11/14/2011

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Shannen, 2 words: It's rape. If she hadn't hit puberty it would be child molestation.

[deleted account]

Meggy, That was brought over from the last thread. It was to make a point to someone that it wasn't rape it was child molestation. So I think it is very relevent.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 11/14/2011

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The fact of whether or not she has just started puberty or not is irrelevent in this conversation. This girl is not on trial for if she had sex and got pregnant.

Obviously she was developed enough to get pregnant from a rape.

[deleted account]

Marina, I said 'I doubt she was past puberty yet'. I think you may need to go back and re read it for yourself.

"refers to sex between an adult and a sexually mature minor past the age of puberty"
I would put money on this girl only having just started puberty.

Ez - posted on 11/14/2011

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Marina, the girl has obviously started puberty to have been able to conceive. But there is no way she has finished developing at 10yo. I think that is what is being referred to in that statement.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 11/14/2011

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Considering that even the president of Mexico has to change his plan because of drug cartels I doubt this poor young woman had any chance of discourse with her attackers and my heart goes out to her and her family.

Brittany - posted on 11/14/2011

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In the OP there were some wording issues. I would, as a survivor, like to say something.

Rape is the unwanted, force of sex by someone or a group of people on someone else. STATUTORY RAPE USUALLY involves the age of consent issue we are having. Statutory Rape

Alabama

§ 13A-6-61

§ 13A-6-62
First-degree rape for someone age 16 or older to have sexual intercourse with someone under age 12.

Second-degree rape for someone age 16 or older to have sexual intercourse with someone between age 12 and 16, when the actor is at least two years older.

This is where I live. Rape involves any forced sex on anyone of any age, Statutory is involving persons under or between a certain age, in most cases it does vary and I encourgae you to look up your state.

For Americans :
http://www.cga.ct.gov/2003/olrdata/jud/r...

While I would never compare one trauma to another, I also believe it to be unfair to compare a mother protecting her child to a bartender WILLINGLY serving someone who is already drunk. We do not know the full story here, perhpas this young lady had been kidnapped. When we sleep we do not know if someone is breaking into our home.

This post mentions that we must remember this happened in Mexico. Let's say this young lady was kidnapped right out of her home. It would make no difference if her parents, living in Mexico, went to the police. Most of the police are paid by the gangs there. I am sure we hear more news from Mexico in the USA then most countries and it is not uncommon to read about a bus driver, who was paid by human traffickers, to bring bus loads of woman, who thought they were going to the factory to work, to houses to be trafficked out.

These woman get on the bus to go to work, like any other week and BAM they are now being trafficked.

It would make no difference if she went to the police in Mexico or not. Maybe the best thing for her and her family to do is be thankful everyone is healthy and alive, provide thier daughter with support and raise a beautiful baby.

Becky - posted on 11/14/2011

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Ahhh, but Tara, that is easy to say when you live in Canada, a country where you have rights and a voice and can challenge your authorities like that. Maybe not so easy to do when you live in a country where the government is corrupt, the laws are deeply rooted in religion, and you face being placed in jail for questioning the way things are. (I'm not sure whether things are that extreme in Mexico, but from some posts, it sounds like it's possible.) I'm not questioning that you would do that, but for a family who has lived under this type of regime for their whole lives, it might not be so easy to even consider as it is for us, KWIM?

In the end, it seems like this family was really left with no choice at all, but to put their daughter's way too young, 10 year old body through the challenges of pregnancy and in the end, risk her life and the life of her baby. And that is very sad. While you all know I'm not the biggest fan of abortion, a child, which is very much what she is, should never be forced to carry and deliver a baby.

Tara - posted on 11/14/2011

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I think given the hypothetical circumstances presented in the OP of this thread, I would likely have taken my child to the authorities as soon as I found out she was pregnant. I would have taken her to the doctor right away and explained that she was pregnant and had been impregnated without her consent at the age of 10. And that she needed an abortion to potentially save her life as pregnancy and birth are not something a 10 year old's body is designed to do.
I would be one of those women in Mexico that the authorities hate and want silenced. I would be that mom who doesn't take shit from anyone.

Kellie - posted on 11/14/2011

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I daresay it was at one stage, but we (thankfully) have evolved.

Mexico has so many huge issues and is full of corruption that I just don't think they know where to start their cleanup.

They have Murders all the time, people go missing all the time, women and children are raped all the time and the drugs, the drugs are just highly prevalent and the drug lords are mean and nasty and have no compunction about killing anything that even looks like it's against them.

It must be so overwhelming where do you start?

Karla - posted on 11/14/2011

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This is very sad, I cannot imagine going through such a thing at 10 y.o., or having one of my daughters face this situation.

It seems very likely to me that they would not have known she was pregnant in time to do a legal abortion. This is why there needs to be laws for special circumstances in which abortion can be performed for the sake of the mother.

I’m inclined to think of myself at 10. I was in 4th grade, had a best girl-friend with whom I fell in love. (I learned later that developmentally this is the age for same sex very close friendships.) If I had a crush on a boy at this age I would not even talk to him. Our school would do sex-ed the following year, and I don’t know whether I truly knew where babies came from when I was 10.

I hope this situation helps push the legislator towards reform of abortion laws.

Hope - posted on 11/14/2011

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I am a christian and I would personally never have an abortion but I do believe in pro - choice. I never want my country to be like this.

Kellie - posted on 11/14/2011

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But if they've been raped they will no longer be chaste and pure, therefore they can't prove they were BEFORE the rape can they?

oh you might of missed it with the hijacker but I said this to your post in the other thread too.

"That's appalling but not surprising Hope.

"As a result, many rape victims seek to resolve their situation by resorting to back-alley abortions that endanger their lives and health. Underage girls raped by their fathers or other family members often find themselves with no other alternative than to carry the imposed pregnancy to term".

This is why I will always be pro choice and will always always advocate and fight for those seeking to terminate their pregnancy."

Hope - posted on 11/14/2011

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They do a virginal exam. I did read it somewhere I will see if I can find that info again.

Hope - posted on 11/14/2011

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I just found this information on a webpage

"Rape is prosecuted at the state level, and state laws vary. A review of criminal laws in all 31 states showed that many required that if, for example, a 12-year-old girl accused an adult of statutory rape, she had first to prove she was "chaste and pure." Nineteen of the states required that statutory rape charges be dropped if the rapist agreed to marry his victim."

Helps to explain what may be going on and why.

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