No Kids Allowed

Lacye - posted on 07/28/2011 ( 49 moms have responded )

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What's the matter with kids today and why doesn't anyone want them around? In June, Malaysia Airlines banned babies from many of their first class cabins, prompting other major airlines to consider similar policies.

Lately, complaints about screaming kids are being taken seriously, not only by airlines, but by hotels, movie theaters, restaurants, and even grocery stores.

Read more about restaurants around the country banning kids.

Earlier this month, McDain's, a Pittsburgh area restaurant that banned kids under 6 became a mascot for the no-kids-zone movement.

According to a Pittsburgh local news poll, more than half of area residents were in favor of the ban. And now big business is paying attention.

"Brat bans could well be the next frontier in destination and leisure-product marketing," writes Robert Klara in an article on the child-free trend in AdWeek.

Klara points to Leavethembehind.com, a travel website for kid-free vacations, with a massive list of yoga retreats, luxury resorts and bargain hotels around the world that ban children.

"Call me a grinch, a misanthrope, a DINK (dual-income-no-kids), or the anti-cute-police, but I hate (hate a thousand times over) ill-behaved children/infants/screaming banshees in upscale restaurants (ok, anywhere, really, but I don’t want any death threats)," writes Charlotte Savino on Travel and Leisure's blog. She lists a slew of a popular destination restaurants with kid-free areas and policies for travelers looking for quiet vacation dining.

Traveling is one thing, but what about in kids' own hometowns? Should kids been banned from local movie theaters, like they were at a recent adults-only Harry Potter screening? In Texas, one cinema chain has even flipped the model, banning kids under six altogether, except on specified "baby days".

Even running errands with toddlers may be changing. This summer Whole Foods stores in Missouri are offering child-free shopping hours (kids are allowed inside but childcare service is available for parents who want to shop kid-free.) Meanwhile in Florida, a controversy brews over whether kids can be banned from a condominium's outdoor area. That's right, some people don't even want kids outdoors.

When did kids become the equivalent of second-hand smoke? Blame a wave of childless adults with money to spare. "Empty nesters continue to wield a huge swath of discretionary spending dollars, and population dips in first-world countries mean more childless couples than ever," writes AdWeek's Klara.

Catering to the child-free community may be good for business but is it good for parents? It could help narrow choices and make kid-friendly environments even kid-friendlier. And let's be honest, babies won't miss flying first class. They won't even remember it. But their moms and dads will.

Most parents with young children have self-imposed limits on spending and leisure. This new movement imposes limits set by the public. And the public isn't as child-friendly as it used to be. As businesses respond to their new breed of 'first-class' clientele, are parents in danger of becoming second-class citizens?

http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/parenting...

It's terrible that children are being discriminated against like this.

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Mary - posted on 07/28/2011

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I think this author (and some moms on here) are completely clueless about why many places have felt the need to enact bans, limits, or to just implement designated "kid-free" hours or events. It is not that kids have suddenly become despised by society, or that the public has become intolerant. Rather, this is the result of parents who became insensitive and indifferent to those around them.

I'm pretty sure that if all parents showed some basic common sense about where and when they brought there kids, we would never have reached this point. No one should have to tell a parent that taking their 4 y/o to see Harry Potter in the theater is a bad idea, and yet, when my Dad went to see it the other day, there was a family with a newborn and a 4 y/o sitting behind him. And yes, the kid freaked, and howled when (as expected) things got scary. Apparently, they didn't have the concern for him OR the consideration for those around them to remove him until the manager came in and told them they had to leave.

This type of scenario goes on in many public venues on a daily basis throughout the world. Parents who are so desperate to not give up their adult pleasures, or change their social hang-outs "just because they had kids". They typically are not bringing their kids because they legitimately believe it to be a place the kid will like, but rather, because it is a destination that appeals to the adult. Let's be honest here - given the choice, most kids would chose Chuck E Cheese over that snazzy new Italian bistro that Mom's gym friends raved about. The only reason to take your kids there is because you want a more civilized, adult meal.

Denikka - posted on 07/28/2011

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I think BRAT bans are fantastic. I think CHILD bans suck.

I have 2 kids under 3 (28 months and 6 months). I HATE going to restaurants or even out shopping and then having to listen to someone else's child scream for an hour (yes, literally situations where from the moment I've walked into a restaurant to the time I leave, some kid screaming their lungs out while mom and whomever sit there and chat over top the kid without trying to do anything about it)
From my own experiences, I have found that if a parent is trying to do something about a misbehaving child, they are generally met with a fair amount of tolerance. It's the ones who just ignore the screaming/running around/misbehaving child that get met with nasty looks and complaints.
Just like I would have a problem with a mentally handicapped person, or ANYONE coming over and sticking their hands in my food and running off with my napkin or cutlery, I have the same issues with kids who do the same thing. I would have the expectation that I could bring it to the attention of waitstaff at a restaurant and that they would summarily give that particular family the option of either controlling their child into behaving in a reasonable manner, or leaving the establishment.
My kids are far from perfect, but I would never let them scream or even fuss for more than 5 minutes before removing them from the situation, either to the bathroom or outside to deal with the issue. And on top of that, I'm usually apologizing to those along the way for the noise and inconvenience. And as I mentioned, this generally means that I'm met with a fair amount of tolerance.
I don't think an all out child ban is appropriate, but I am ALL FOR businesses to have the right to remove unruly customers, no matter what the age. I also DO think that there should be places and times when children aren't allowed, and specific times and places that cater to children. I know Famous Players (movie theater) has times for adult shows (generally not horror or high action) where it is child friendly, infants are welcome, they turn the sound down, etc) It's called stars and strollers. I think it's a great idea. I wish more places would have something similar.
I think the whole thing would be much less of an issue and fewer places, if any, would be even considering such drastic measures if more parents would take more responsibility for their kids behavior. I think it's a case of a few bad apples ruining it for everyone else.

Isobel - posted on 07/30/2011

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she said a little less...chill ;) I think we'd all like to work a LITTLE less.

Tasha - posted on 07/29/2011

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Its not the children, its the parents. Dont take your children to a nice resturant at dinner time and expect that people out trying to have a nice dinner not to be annoyed at an unruly child, or at a movie theatre. Kids will be loud, messy and rude, it is the job of the parent to midigate the situation before it gets bad. If your child is well behaved and listens, no one would have a problem with it, it is when a child is going crazy and the parent is not doing anything that pissed people off. As far as planes, if you have to travel by plane, and your childs crying, and your trying to sooth them i think people are less likely to be mad, and if they are i guess tough for them, maybe they need to dedicate, no child or children only flights if there are that many bothered by it. I have a small child, and i dont take him to a steakhouse resturant because i know the odds of him being happy and content through dinner are slim to none, i dont want to annoy people and i dont want to embarrass myself. There are appropriate times and places for children. If we want a dinner out, we have the MIL watch our son. I used to be a smoker, even though there were non smoking bars, because enough people were not smoker friendly, there ideals where thrust on the smoking community, did i throw a fit? No i went outside to smoke, even though there was a bar down the street who was already non smoking, then you cant smoke outside etc.... we have to learn that all it takes is one person to complain and we all have to shift our lives, ah to be an american, its our way!

Krista - posted on 07/28/2011

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The thing is, though, is where does it stop? There are plenty of people out there who don't just want children banned from first class. They want them banned from airplanes. Period. At all times. I've read too many comments sections where an alarming number of people feel that if you have little ones, you should just flat-out never fly with them, ever. (So I guess overseas moves are out, unless you want to put your baby in your shipping container along with your furniture?)

Like Denikka, I agree that some parents abscond their duties and do not try to keep their children from acting barbaric. However, there are an awful lot of child-free folk who just have a real hate-on for kids, no matter HOW well-behaved they are. And yeah, that's their right. Nobody's saying they have to love kids. I fully understand that even though I think my son is just an utter ray of sunshine, there are others who loathe the very sight of him. BUT, that does not, in my opinion, give them the right to try to completely eradicate him from their view.

You go out in public, you're gonna have to deal with people you might not want to deal with. That's part of being in a little thing called "society". And these people may not like kids, but THEY'RE the ones acting like brats.

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[deleted account]

Agreed. The other poster was not castigating anyone. Jus tsaying that kids with more time from parents may not have as many problems. I think we can all agree that the more time people have with kids, they do better. Why else would there be so many mentoring and big brother/sister programs?

so yeah - chill peeps

Rosie - posted on 07/31/2011

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i agree laura. we all would like to work a little less, and spend more time with out kids.

[deleted account]

"If parents were able to work a little less and spend more time with our children, maybe there would be less crime and less violence."

NOT even going there.....

Wendy-Lynn - posted on 07/30/2011

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I am a mother and totally understand wanting to go to a place with no children, but I think that this is going to start going to far -- children are our future and with out them, there would be no future -- it is sad to see how children are behaving these days, how out of control, and disrespectful they have become, but is it too hard to see the underlying issues? Most children come fwom homes where either both parents are working or they live with one parent, who probally works two jobs. There is mo more, or very little, family time anymore, and parents have less ti,e to devote to their children (most times by no fault of their own). The cost of living it outragous and just trying to make sure we are able to provide basic needs to our children is a full time, consuming all our attention and energy, job. Childrne are lacking the most important aspect in thier live and that is the attention that they deserve. They are being left with starngers for hours during the day and when they are home with their parent(s), there is very little time between making supper and getting ready for bed. It is sad that the government makes it so impossibly hard for people to afford to live and sad how this is taking its toll on our children, who are becoming more violent and turing to street friends (gangs) as a way to find love, pr they are just so self centred and think that the worlds owes them everyting. If parents were able to work a little less and spend more time with our children, maybe there would be less crime and less violence. I know I got way off topic, but it is one big circle -- our children are already banned from being with us parents for 8 hours plus a day when we are at work, why let companies bann even more time where we are not allowed to have children. Why is it ok to let people with no kids and who do not like kids say that we can not bring our childrnet o where they are because they are annoying? What is the shoe was on the other foot and us parents started telling these adults that they are not allowed to come to a resturant or grocery store becuse they have no children and that they have to stay at home? Hate this hypocritical worlkd that we live in. I do not mind having a kid free dinner, but I would not be upset if I was at a returant and a family came with their children in tow, kids hould not be looked at as annoying or burdens, they are humans, they have feelings and most sre a lot more kinder and thoughtful then most adults you meet

Stifler's - posted on 07/30/2011

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I grocery shop with my kids and they're never bad. Probably because I don't take 9374590347 years to chat to people in the Shapes aisle. I get in and get out and there's no tantrums. If I feel like doing a huge shop I leave them home and go at night.

[deleted account]

Part of the equation for "X" business is dependent upon the demographics of the community. We have a lot of seniors in the immediate area, and triple that in the winter when snowbirds flock here. Local business most definately cater to the 55+ crowd! Well I am only 38....should I feel discriminated against since many of the local businesses have exclusive specials and deals for the seniors? Should I grab the media and claim bias becasue I cannot get the same 2-for-1 special from a selected menu during a certain time frame? How about when the grocery stores offer 10% discount on the 1st Wed. of every month off the grocery bill? Well, there are over 300 small 55+ communities locally, plus my parent's 55+ megatropolis 3000 home community. Yes....local businesses look at the clientle in their communities and cater to those needs. Now I also have to say I live in a very pro-family community as well and an all-out child band would most likely not go over well here. However, I most certainly could see an establishment thrive if a 10 & under ban at an upscale establishment was a policy simply because of the population in my community.

Sherri - posted on 07/29/2011

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Nope never go out for a romantic dinner. The only time we go out to dinner is if we take our kids with us. That is what my husband and I prefer, not sad just because you opt to and we don't. There will be plenty of time for that when the kids are grown and gone. We literally go out with out our kids maybe once a year, if that.



We live in a fairly small town. We don't have any bars (drinking establishments) here. We have a few family restaurants, grocery store, and few normal shopping stores. So in the town I live in no such place would stay in business and more likely than not open in the first place.



The tourism for our state is several hours away from us. We don't have tourism in this part of the state for the most part unless you are visiting family or something.

Krista - posted on 07/29/2011

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You never go out for a nice romantic dinner with the husband, sans kids, Sherri? That's kind of sad.

Besides, your reasoning is a bit wonky. If any business that doesn't allow kids will go out of business, then it would stand to reason that there are absolutely NO successful drinking establishments or fine restaurants in your area.

And looking at the tourism site for your state, it looks like there are plenty of both.

Just 'cause YOU and your circle of chums wouldn't spend money at adults-only places, it's a bit silly of you to assume that NOBODY will.

Sherri - posted on 07/29/2011

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My view is this I go NO WHERE without my kids so if they can not go. Then I do not spend my money in those establishments and neither will many people I know. So hence they will most likely be out of business sooner than later. At least in this area, and that will put an end to this ridiculousness pretty damn quick.

Christina - posted on 07/29/2011

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It's partially society's fault to begin with. As a parent, we have to worry that someone wacko is going to call CPS on us if we discipline our child in public (regardless of HOW we discipline) and a lot of parents just don't give a damn.
I am all for NO KIDS policies in certain public areas, but only after certain hours. I think a Cinema should not ban children under the age of six if it is a child's movie!!! Now, PG and up, sure, ban the spawns under 6 if you want. Restaurants also should also not be allowed to do this unless again it is after certain hours or on certain days.
I took all my newborns to movies with me. As a 17yr old single mom, I couldn't afford a babysitter to leave my kid at home, so I took him with me. You didn't even know he was there because he breastfed happily the entire time and didn't make a peep.
As annoyed as parents of small children are at this crap, I have to admit that as a mom of five, when I go out on a date with my husband, I get really annoyed if someone else's brat is ruining my quiet leisure time!

Mary - posted on 07/29/2011

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Karina, you're not altogether wrong about that infertility bit. As someone who went through it, I know that I did often go out of my way to avoid places that were apt to be rife with kids. Perhaps that is why, even as a parent now, I am not only not offended by places that want to ban or restrict the presence of kids, but I support their choice to do so. I can see both sides, having been one of those people who did find the presence of kids less than desirable. It may be a great contributing factorin why I honestly have no sense of entitlement about being able to have her accompany me everywhere, no do I expect society at large to make wither concessions or special considerations of me just because I chose, and got lucky enough, to have a child.



It has made me very aware that not everyone finds the presence of my child welcome, even when she is at her most adorable and well-behaved. It has made me aware that just seeing her can cause another to feel irrational jealousy, heartbreak, and resentment. Most of them would never admit those feelings aloud, but I bet those people would be all over a kids-free night at the grocery store. And I am one would happily grant them that opportunity.

Karina - posted on 07/29/2011

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In my 34 years of life, I have seen several instances of where all it took was one nincompoop to ruin an activity for everyone. I agree with Denikka. if either of my little ones are having a bad day, even just a little fussy or whining, I do not go out with them. I wait until my husband gets home from work for me to run a quick errand to two.
I believe that a small part of this child banning maybe in part to the rise of infertility - 1 out of 6 couples experience problems conceiving, and that % is increasing everyday. Some people do not want to reminded of children when they themselves are having problems getting pregnant, especially when those children are not behaving civilly. But I also believe there are A LOT of people having kids that are not mature enough to deal with what raising children requires.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 07/29/2011

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I actually have the same experience as Mary, but with 2 kids...so they always want to talk to my son who is 5...and has absolutely the longest eyelashes you have ever seen...so the old ladies go gaga over him....then his 15 month old sister who is pretty darn cute....then they want to talk about what a good big brother he is....and try to get her to say words other than "hi"....it is all very cute and endearing.

Sometimes it is hard when you need to get in and out...but that's what she said.

Krista - posted on 07/29/2011

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Heh -- you're not odd, Mary. You're just more patient than I am. My grocery store is in the town where I work, not the village where I live -- our village only has a small convenience store. So I usually do my groceries in two waves: non-perishables are purchased during my lunch hour, and perishable goods are purchased during a mad, after-work sweep. So as you can see, I'm trying to do this as quickly as possible. And invariably, at both of those times, the seniors are out in full force and bless their hearts, they're just taking their sweet time. I've often wanted to own a cattle prod during these shopping sessions. Bzzt! Out of my way, grandpa!



And yeah, I suppose if it was done the way you describe it, I wouldn't really have an issue with it. As long as the convenience stores are still open for any emergency milk runs.

Mary - posted on 07/29/2011

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I must be odd...I actually enjoy taking Molls to the grocery store when all the seniors are out. They, more than any other group, love nothing better than stopping to talk to her, and encourage her to "help" them carry something to their cart. My toddler really does think of our local grocery store as a fun, social outlet!



All niceties aside, I really can't see the problem with some place like a grocery store, Target, or Costco implementing the once-a-week equivalent of an adult swim. It would pose no great hardship on the vast majority of shoppers. If I knew that every Wednesday, from 6pm-9pm, they disallowed anyone under the age of 12 (or whatever), I could easily plan my weekly shopping around that. I'm not being denied access to the store the bulk of the time, just one evening out of seven. BFD. In fact, it might actually help me out as a mom. Hopefully, all the cranky, mean people who don't like even my angelic and adorable child will chose to shop then, so that I don't have to deal with their grumpy asses when Molls and I are making the rounds and playing with the "nice" old people!

Krista - posted on 07/29/2011

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I think it can be an issue because as someone said downthread -- this isn't a ban on behaviour. It's a blanket ban on individuals just because of their age. Heck, look at the OP, where it says that a condo complex is looking at banning kids from their outdoor area .

I'm not saying that there should be no such thing as adult-only spaces. There should. Absolutely. But I agree that adult-only grocery shopping is a bit ridiculous. Hell, I find it MORE inconvenient to shop when the store is full of senior citizens, as they move more slowly and tend to use grocery time as social time, blocking the aisles with their carts while they catch up on each others' news. So are we going to also institute grocery hours banning anybody over the age of 60?

~♥Little Miss - posted on 07/29/2011

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I saw Transformers 3 about 2 weeks ago. There was a young child about the age of 4 with his father and older brother. It is a PG13 movie. I did not think it was an appropriate movie for a child his age. Plus, the whole movie he was asking his dad questions. It ONLY bothered me cause I thought it was much to violent for him. His dad made the decision as a parent to let him watch it. Do I think he should have been banned from the theater cause he talked, and was to young for the movie? Nope. He had his parent with him.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 07/29/2011

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No Laura, actually this is the 3rd thread on kids being banned and I have NEVER said they "should not be banned from anywhere". I have kept that stance throughout. Like the age limit on that one restaurant, I hold firm in my stance that if they are gonna ban up to a certain age, I think they should just ban kids from there all together. I don't think it is right to ban kids from certain areas of an airplane either. There are plenty of restaurants that are high end that I am fine if they ban kids (non in my area that I know of though). I simply don't think that shopping areas should have bans on kids, in particular grocery stores.

Isobel - posted on 07/29/2011

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I meant PM (when your kids should be in bed)...and I'm pretty sure you've been saying that they shouldn't be banned from anywhere...and they never had to be before because parents had good enough sense to know when there children didn't belong in a certain place or that they should remove them if they start raising hell.



Of course you wouldn't go to a place that didn't allow children...and double the people who don't want children around will go in your place...that's the one good thing about the capitalist system. If there are people who want a product, you may supply it (so long as it's legal) and child-free experiences are certainly both wanted and legal...why is this even an issue?

~♥Little Miss - posted on 07/29/2011

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I agree that there are certain things kids should be banned from, but the grocery store is not one of them.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 07/29/2011

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Actually for me during the school year, that is the specific time that I grocery shop...usually in the summer I am there by 9:30 10 am...it is the most convinient time for me. I don't think the parents are stupid to not want bans Laura. I would just have to make sure I did not give those places my business.

Isobel - posted on 07/29/2011

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then don't take your kids to the grocery store between 8:30 and 10:00...these are the kinds of bans we're talking about, they are entirely reasonable.

Intolerance for children is not building...the stupidity of parents not knowing how to avoid problems IS

~♥Little Miss - posted on 07/29/2011

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Because Laura, a simple trip to the grocery store should not have to entail getting a babysitter, or family trips should not be difficult to find a flight that accepts kids, or going out to a restaurant for family dinner should not be a public opinion all the time. The intolerance for children is building.

Isobel - posted on 07/29/2011

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so what if it IS a trend? airlines will offer child-free flights, some restaurants will have to put up signs to let people know that places are not child-friendly (cause obviously we can't tell the difference anymore), more bans on children in movies that are not for children...I don't see the problem.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 07/29/2011

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Krista "And I guess I worry a little bit that this might be turning into a bit of a trend."

I am concerned about the same exact thing. It sure seems like it is catching on like wildfire.

Krista - posted on 07/29/2011

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Krista - the thing is, I don't think that (some) restaurants banning small kids, or other businesses having designated kid-free hours or events translates into a "hate" for kids.

No, I agree with you there. I probably wasn't being clear. I didn't mean that these particular actions translated into a hatred for kids.

What I meant was that in media reports about these kid-free initiatives, the comments sections invariably turn into a gathering for an alarmingly large number of people who really, genuinely, unabashedly hate children/babies, and think that they should not be allowed on any form of mass transit. Ever. Or at sporting events, stores, restaurants, churches, or any other mixed-age public place/gathering. Ever. I'm sure that there have always been some people who hate kids, but it just seems like it's on the rise, or that people are more vocal about it.

And I guess I worry a little bit that this might be turning into a bit of a trend. For a long time, our society has revered children -- and yes, many of us took it way too far. But if the pendulum is swinging back, I don't really want to see it swing to the point where kids (and the people who choose to have them) are vilified and ostracized from society.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 07/29/2011

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Hmmm, this one is in Chesterfield. I have never been to that one, must be new in the past 2 years or so since we moved. It would have been closer to were we live.

Anyway, Brentwood and Chesterfield are VERY rich communities. I cannot help but feel the "child free shopping" is because of the community it is in.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 07/29/2011

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Huh, I wonder if in Missouri it is the Whole Foods store in Brentwood that I used to shop at that is having kid free hours. I am gonna have to look this up.

Mary - posted on 07/29/2011

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Krista - the thing is, I don't think that (some) restaurants banning small kids, or other businesses having designated kid-free hours or events translates into a "hate" for kids. I see it more as a show of consideration for those adults who want to the option of shopping, viewing a movie, eating, or whatever, without the distraction and/or disruption of small kids (their own or other's).

It's actually not a new concept, either. Growing up in the 1970's every public pool I ever went to had "adult swims". It was specified amount of time, usually 30 minutes every two hours, when all the kids had to get out of the pool. It gave the adults (including parents) a chance to be in the pool without the errant splash or kick, to float and chat without trying to be hear over the screams from games of Marco Polo or Red Rover, or to swim laps without obstacle. The seniors loved it since it meant they could get in slowly and more safely at the steps, without the throngs of little kids that congregate there, since they are often a play place of choice for the less confident little swimmers.

I just don't think that having designated kid-free places or times equates to society developing a growing hatred or intolerance of children. Hell, even Disney offers an adults-only restaurant, pool, and lounge on each of it's cruise ships.

Stifler's - posted on 07/29/2011

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I think a child free shopping centre is a bit much. A shopping centre is not exactly a peaceful place kids or not, you go there to shop not meditate.

Becky - posted on 07/28/2011

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I don't have a problem with resorts and restaurants that don't allow children. We just don't patronize them if we're taking our kids along! But we went to Sandals for our honeymoon, and it was wonderful, and I'm sure we had a better honeymoon than we would have had a family resort. It doesn't bother me that we can't go back there with our kids. Hopefully someday we can go to Beaches instead. :) And personally, I think it is inappropriate to take a child under 6-8 years old to any movie rated higher than PG anyway. When we went to see Lord of the Rings years ago, there was a family with an infant there. For a 3 hour movie! Now, if someone got pissed that I had my children at Winnie the Pooh or Cars 2 and they didn't sit still like little angels the entire movie, well then yeah, that person is just an ass. But at Sex and the City (I don't get out to movies much, lol), yeah, I wouldn't blame them!
However, while I do think there are some places that are inappropriate for kids or where it's reasonable to ban kids, there are other places where I really think people are just being ridiculous if they are upset by the presence of kids. Like the grocery store or shopping centre. Usually the stay-at-home parent does the grocery shopping, and where else are the kids going to be but with her/him? If you don't want to see children while you're grocery shopping, do it at 11 pm! Or better yet, online! We have a grocery chain here that offers childcare too, and I never saw it as a way to spare other shoppers from children, but as a convenience for parents and for kids who find grocery shopping boring and would much rather play! I probably wouldn't use it because I'm not comfortable leaving my kids with strangers, but it's nice for people who are okay with it. Or whose kids are little demons and impossible to shop with!

Lacye - posted on 07/28/2011

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Krista, I would agree with you if the place would market the restaurant as an adult place. But it doesn't. They still allow children in there but they don't have an appropriate place to sit for the children. Like I said, I don't go to that restaurant simply because they don't have high chairs for children. I personally feel that it's kinda wrong.

I guess it's more of a "punish the majority for the mistakes of the minority" kind of thing. I agree that there are some places that I wouldn't take my child (bars, strip clubs, and other adult entertainment facilities), but I don't see how a restaurant should say that my child isn't welcome there, even though she is very well behaved in public.

Sharon, I don't know if I would use the child care in the grocery store. I wouldn't feel comfortable with it personally.

Stifler's - posted on 07/28/2011

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Some places were never child friendly and people used to have the good sense to not take their kids there. Parents have become entitled to bring their kids everywhere even non child friendly places so now instead of it being unspoken that children aren't really welcome they have to be banned.

Krista - posted on 07/28/2011

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Teresa, I thought the same thing too but there is a restaurant where I live that refuses to have high chairs for small children because the management is trying to discourage parents from bringing their children.

Well, that IS their prerogative, isn't it? If they're marketing themselves as a family restaurant, or if they're the ONLY restaurant in town, then yes, it would be churlish of them to not offer high chairs. But I see no reason why a restaurant should not try to market themselves as a more upscale, adult establishment. People just are NOT going to go to your restaurant for a romantic dinner if the odds are high that a crying infant or whining toddler will be there. Hell, I wouldn't. If I go to a nice restaurant with my husband for dinner, it's because I want to get AWAY from my son for awhile. And if I'm not dealing with mine, then why should I have to deal with someone else's?

Krista - posted on 07/28/2011

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@Mary: Oh, I completely agree with you, in that parents (in general) have brought this on themselves by having absolutely no sense of boundaries or appropriateness. There ARE definitely way too many parents out there who just don't have a freaking clue.

But my point is that two wrongs don't make a right.

The inappropriate parents are all we hear about, because the parents who DO have a clue...well...you just don't hear about them. They're not offending anybody, so people don't realize that the clueless parents are actually probably a very small minority.

So you've now got a bunch of people who, based on a small minority of idiotic parents, now have a virulent hatred for kids, and would love nothing more than to completely eradicate them from shared public spaces.

There's got to be some middle ground between the "Kids should be allowed to be EVERYWHERE" crowd and the "Kids shouldn't be allowed ANYWHERE" crowd -- that's all I'm saying.

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I don't think it's terrible, I think it's a smart & savvy business move for those business who wish to cater to an adult only, or 6 & over population. There are plenty of people who don't want to be subjected to any kid, of any age. Therefore, businesses are developing to meet the needs of this population. That means there are choices: travel as a family, or travel child-free. It's all about choices. Some people have no problem and embrace all the quirks about ill-behaved children in public. Others just cannot bear to stand it. So why not give this group another option; a child-free option? No one is asking you (you, in general) to patronize the place. But it gives options. For example, the Phoenix museums reserve the 1st Friday of every month as ADULT night only from 5-9 pm. It's a wonderful CHILD-FREE environment and perfect for a date night! So why on earth would someone challenge this? The child-free hours were developed for a reason. I think we'll be seeing a lot more of these type of child-free places more and more over the next few years.
Oh, and my grocery store, Basha's, also offers child care services while grocery shopping. My son LOVES it! It sure as hell beats "Mommy can we get this? Mommy can we get this? Mommy can we get this?" Well, you get it!

Denikka - posted on 07/28/2011

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"And these people may not like kids, but THEY'RE the ones acting like brats. "
Agreed...and hence me saying that I agree with BRAT bans and not CHILD bans. Anyone who is acting in a reasonable manner has a right to be in appropriate establishments (obviously kids shouldn't be in bars, night clubs etc, no questions asked there)
Those who can't or don't act appropriately, should be asked to leave. Perfectly reasonable.

Lacye - posted on 07/28/2011

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Teresa, I thought the same thing too but there is a restaurant where I live that refuses to have high chairs for small children because the management is trying to discourage parents from bringing their children. I told them one day that that was fine, their food was shit nasty anyways and overly priced. :D

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I can't see anything like that happening here. Ohana (family) is WAY too important... from the youngest baby to the oldest grandparent.

My kids go everywhere I go (w/ rare exception) and they will continue to do so. If it ever happens that they aren't allowed (like I said... not likely to happen) somewhere... then I won't be either. I do love breaks from my kids (short ones... these past 4 weeks have been super rough), but they happen so rarely that just being w/ them IS my life.

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