Not Guilty of Rape, because of "Skinny Jeans" !

Jess - posted on 05/01/2010 ( 27 moms have responded )

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So I was googling another topic when this popped up instead. I was horrified and wanted to know what you all thought !



http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/rape-of-woman-...



Here is one extract from the article -



"During the trial the jury sent a note to the judge asking for more information about ''how exactly Nick took off her jeans''.



''I doubt those kind of jeans can be removed without any sort of collaboration,'' the note read."





First we're told mini skirts are to blame, and now if your wearing Skinny Jeans its consided impossible !



All I can say it thank god my ass and thighs are too big to fit into skinny jeans !

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Emma - posted on 05/02/2010

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this info was put together from interviewing rapists interesting....

Through a Rapist's Eyes

This is important information for females of ALL ages.

When this was sent to me, I was told to forward it to my women friends, but I forwarded it to most everyone in my address book, including men who can share with the women in their lives.

A group of rapists and date rapists in prison
were interviewed on what they look for in a potential victim
and here are some interesting facts:

1) The first thing men look for in a potential victim is hairstyle. They are most likely to go after a woman with a ponytail, bun, braid or other hairstyle that can easily be grabbed . They are also likely to go after a woman with long hair. Women with short hair are not common targets.

2) The second thing men look for is clothing. They will look for women who's clothing is easy to remove quickly. Many of them carry scissors around specifically to cut clothing.

3) They also look for women on their cell phone, searching through their purse, or < B> doing other activities while walking because they are off-guard and can be easily overpowered.

4) Men are most likely to attack & rape in the early morning, between 5:00a.m. and 8:30a.m.

5) The number one place women are abducted from/attacked is grocery store parking lots. Number two: is office parking lots/garages. Number three: is public restrooms.

6) The thing about these men is that they are looking to grab a woman and quickly move her to another location where they don't have to worry about getting caught.

7) Only 2% said they carried weapons because rape carries a 3-5 year sentence but rape with a weapon is 15-20 years.

8) If you put up any kind of a fight at all, they get discouraged because it only takes a minute or two for them to realize that going after you isn't worth it because it will be time-consuming.

9) These men said they would not pick on women who have umbrellas , or other similar objects that can be used from a distance, in their hands. Keys are not a deterrent because you have to get really close to the attacker to use them as a weapon. So, the idea is to convince these guys you're not worth it.

10) Several defense mechanisms he taught us are: If someone is following behind you on a street or in a garage or with you in an elevator or stairwell, look them in the face and ask them a question , like what time is it, or make general small talk: 'I can't believe it is so cold out here,' 'we're in for a bad winter.' Now you've seen their face and could identify them in a line-up; you lose appeal as a target.

11) If someone is coming toward you , hold out your hands in front of you and yell STOP or STAY BACK ! Most of the rapists this man talked to said they'd leave a woman alone if she yelled or showed that she would not be afraid to fight back . Again, they are looking for an EASY target.

12) If you carry pepper spray (this instructor was a huge advocate of it and carries it with him wherever he goes) , yell I HAVE PEPPER SPRAY and holding it out will be a deterrent.

13) If someone grabs you , you can't beat them with strength but you can by outsmarting them If you are grabbed around the waist from behind, pinch the attacker either under the arm (between the elbow and armpit) OR in the upper inner thigh VERY VERY HARD . One woman in a class this guy taught told him she used the underarm pinch on a guy who was trying to date rape her and was so upset she broke through the skin and tore out muscle strands - the guy needed stitches. Try pinching yourself in those places as hard as you can stand it - it hurts.

14) After the initial hit, always GO for the GROIN . I know from a particularly unfortunate experience that if you slap a guy's parts it is extremely painful . You might think that you'll anger the guy and make him want to hurt you more, but the thing these rapists told our instructor is that they want a woman who will not cause a lot of trouble. Start causing trouble and he's out of there.

15) When the guy puts his hands up to you , grab his first two fingers and bend them back as far as possible with as much pressure pushing down on them as possible . The instructor did it to me without using much pressure, and I ended up on my knees and both knuckles cracked audibly.

16) Of course the things we always hear still apply. Always be aware of your surroundings , take someone with you if you can and if you see any odd behavior, don't dismiss it, go with your instincts!!!

Krista - posted on 05/02/2010

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Well, Christina, I'd hate to disappoint you.



A woman could walk down the street in pasties and a thong, and 99 out of 100 men would be decent enough to leave her alone. A substantial number of them would go beyond that and would ask if she needed help. One would rape her.



So how, pray tell, is that her fault?



And at what point do you draw the line? In our culture, a miniskirt and skimpy top are considered provocative -- so you lay blame at the victim, saying that if she was going to dress like that, then she has to expect something to happen. So let's say every woman agrees with you, and those clothes are banned. The skimpiest clothes you can now get are knee-length skirts and short-sleeved blouses. THAT then becomes "provocative". So then a woman wearing that was raped. We blame her, saying she should have known better than to entice men with her arms and legs. So then on it goes, until one day, women have to be covered head to toe, and if a woman shows a tiny bit of her neck, or a bit of ankle, she's blamed for it if she gets raped. Blaming the victim based on her actions and what she was wearing is what leads to things like burkas, and women not being allowed out of the house.



So no, if you dress a certain way it is not your fault if something happens. Criminals CHOOSE to commit criminal acts. Nobody forces them. If I'm walking down the street in a sundress and I get raped, it is nobody's fault but my rapist's, because he made the conscious DECISION to do that to me. I do not control other people's behaviour. They do.



I've said it before. Rape is NOT about sex, it's about subjugating someone in order to make yourself feel more powerful. Nuns have been raped. Old women have been raped. Infants have been raped. They weren't dressed provocatively.

Johnny - posted on 05/02/2010

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For some men an exposed ankle can be seen as an invitation. For some men, a cute smile from a little girl can be seen as an invitation. No victim is ever responsible for their own rape, ever. That idea just excuses rape and supports rapists.

Kate CP - posted on 05/02/2010

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Rape is not about sex. It's about control. Wearing sexy clothes and being sexy has nothing to do with it. Lots of women who were raped were wearing baggy sweat suits and had on no make-up. Rape has nothing to do with sexual gratification. Many rapists actually lose their erection during the act and use another object to rape their victim. Rape is about power, dominance, and control.

Vicki - posted on 05/03/2010

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The most important advice is to be aware of your surroundings. I'm sure all of those points may be true for one rapist, but there are many others who have a different plan.

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Emma - posted on 05/03/2010

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Vicki
yes it seems the origins of said advice are questionable
But a lot of it is backed up by other info this was just the easiest to find as was in my in box the other day.
I think the main thing is criminals all criminals look for easy targets no matter it be rape, mugging ect
If you look nervous or are distracted by your cell phone.
The more aware of your surroundings the better, the more confident you look the better. as its a deterrent it dose not mean that you will never be attacked but it helps to lower the chances.

Charlie - posted on 05/02/2010

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Although the origins are questionable Vicki there are some helpful tips and valid points to be taken from that .

Charlie - posted on 05/02/2010

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By the way my skinny jeans fall down all by themselves all i have to do when i go to the bathroom is wiggle my butt and they drop if i dont have a belt on so there goes that theory out the window .

Christa - posted on 05/02/2010

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That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard! Sure maybe it would hurt if she didn't help him, but I don't think a rapist cares if he hurts her taking her pants off. Unless they are sewn to her they can be taken off.

Jocelyn - posted on 05/02/2010

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Skinny jeans? Really? That's ridiculous. It does not take "collaboration" to get out of jeans, no matter how "skinny" they are. You don't even need to take the jeans all the way off to rape someone. The only part I've ever found skinny jeans to be tricky at is around the ankles...

Johnny - posted on 05/02/2010

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No one here is saying that they are not seen as an invitation, but that no matter what a pervert thinks, nothing gives him the right to rape. Some guys actually find modest dressing more arousing (the mystery). So if a woman who is modestly dressed is raped, it must then be partly her responsibility for dressing in a way that lures in perverts. Rape is never the victims fault at all. Ever.

C. - posted on 05/02/2010

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"For some men an exposed ankle can be seen as an invitation. For some men, a cute smile from a little girl can be seen as an invitation."



So why are people arguing that short, short skirts and low-cut tops couldn't be seen as an "invitation" from a pervert?



If so little can be taken as an invitation to a sicko, then barely there clothes can definitely be taken that same way to the same kind of person..

C. - posted on 05/02/2010

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@Jess Lyn..



I did not misunderstand the topic. I told you what I thought about the whole thing:



"However, I do think that the claim about skinny jeans is just ridiculous."



And yes it hits close to home for me (*GASP* yes ME, the one who says it could be related to how a woman dresses!) My Great Aunt and my Mom have been raped and I was molested when I was younger.





@Krista..



"So how, pray tell, is that her fault?"



I said it before and I'll say it again.. If you're wearing something THAT revealing, it almost seems like an invitation to sick people. You have to realize that there ARE sick people out there, so WHY would you put yourself in that kind of situation. And yes, some people are raped when wearing baggy sweatpants, but there are MANY who are raped while wearing something completely inappropriate. I never said it was right, but it happens.



You're right, though.. Not everyone that is raped is dressed provocatively.. But there are some men that while they want that power, they see an "open invitation" (an open invitation in their mind, anyway) when a woman is scantily clad.

Krista - posted on 05/02/2010

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And yes, getting back to the topic, it's absurd to think that because her jeans were tight that she took them off willingly. How do we know he didn't have a hand around her throat the entire time, threatening to kill her if she didn't remove them?

Jess - posted on 05/02/2010

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Christina, I think you have misunderstood the point of this post. We arn't suggesting she was raped because of what she wore. The guy who was accused of attacking her claimed it wasn't possible to rape her because her skinny jeans were to tight to remove by force, so she must have helped him and therefore it was consentual sex. Heaven help us all.... what will they come up with next ?



I didn't post this to start a debate about whether a women is "asking for it" or not. I can run down my street naked and still have the right to say No ! * don't worry, my running naked days are over* ! This is a sensative topic, and I want be mindful of those who find it a little close to home !

C. - posted on 05/02/2010

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Ah geez.. Here we go. I am a huge believer in if you dress a certain way, it's PARTIALLY your fault if something happens b/c you were trying to entice someone with provocative clothing.. However, I do think that the claim about skinny jeans is just ridiculous. I don't necessarily think that skinny jeans are provocative.. But had it been a micro-mini skirt with a barely there top.. I would have had to say it was partially the girl's fault.

I know, I know.. Go off on me.. I just know some of you will and that's Ok..

Jodi - posted on 05/02/2010

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I absolutely agree that skinny jeans does not mean it wasn't rape.....



However, I do see the other side as well. Isn't it the task f the court to determine whether a rape had actually taken place? There ARE instances where a woman claims rape when in actual fact it isn't (ie. consensual sex tooki place, guy dumped girl afterwards, she feels upset, screams rape). So I do kind of see the dilemma, that if the jeans could only come off if she consented, it is also possible it was sex with consent and not rape. It really is often one of those "He says" and "she says" situations, which really sucks.



Having said that, however, I don't think I could stop someone pulling off my jeans , no matter how skinny, if they really wanted to get into them. There would be a lot of noise and a lot of fuss, but I do think it would be difficult to fight off.

Ez - posted on 05/02/2010

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OK this is about the most absurd defence I have ever heard. The logistics of how hard, or easy, a pair of jeans are to take off is irrelevant. Even if a woman took them off voluntarily, but said no afterwards, it's still rape. And what precedent does this set? Is the next rapist going to claim 'oh she was wearing a wetsuit/corset/*insert any other tight item of clothing here*, there's no way I could have got that off her without her wanting it'?

Emma - posted on 05/02/2010

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That's Fucking ridiculous
I own skinny jeans and they are really easy to get off on on the other hand is a different story.
This is sending a dangerous message as Rapists read papers and if they think they can get away with if there victim of choice is wearing skinny jean's because "they are heard to take off"
Some peoples stupidity really pisses me off

Charlie - posted on 05/02/2010

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I totally agree , its a dangerous precedent and i think anyone that validates that behavior is as guilty as the rapist themselves .

Jess - posted on 05/02/2010

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The thing that scares me the most about this is that it won't deter rapes, it will just give attackers validation that the women "wanted" it. That the woman has allowed them to take those jeans off and they weren't forcing her. Its a dangerous message to be sending ! Almost as if its a green light for attackers. If you can get her jeans off its ok to do as you please ! Its a really sad that those 6 women on the jury sat back and let that decision be made. It shows that we aren't the united front we should be !

Charlie - posted on 05/01/2010

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There is no excuse for any human to sexually abuse another , it is weak and cowardly to try and rational such an act .

A Muslim sheik in Australia once said much to the outrage of the entire nation that a woman who exposes herself , yes that means your arms and even ankles is like " uncovered meat " ready for the taking , disgusting attitude just another way for men to hold their dominance over women , why do these certain types of men think this way ? because they are afraid of the power we women hold , and they are , as i said cowards .

[deleted account]

Oh my lord have mercy! Had anyone on the jury ever worn skinny jeans they would know that, yes they can be taken off. They are skinny in the thighs and lower legs, not necessarily the waist. My skinny jeans can actually be pulled below my hips without being unbuttoned because I have a round belly and no butt. Jeez Louis ANY thing can be ripped off with enough force. Especially skinny jeans that are the same as other jeans, just skinny all the way down.

I guess in addition to not jogging past "the workers" and not wearing my tasteful two piece in public I now have to restrict the wearing of my skinny jeans to my own home.

Karissa - posted on 05/01/2010

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I liked the last sentence. Any piece of clothing can be removed with force. I won't speculate as to whether she was raped or not but I don't think skinny jeans scream YOU CAN'T RAPE ME NOW.

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