Oppositional Defiance Disorder: True mental illness or a cop out for being a brat?

[deleted account] ( 112 moms have responded )

So now there is a technical / medical term for disobediant and defiant children. Do you think this is a true mental illness or total bs? Do you think giving this problem a name gives kids an excuse to be unruly bc they can blame it on a disorder?
To me it sounds like a "Get Out Of Jail Free" card.

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Alahnna - posted on 02/27/2011

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I tried to read this and not say anything, but some of these comments are very hurtful I must say.
My son has ADHD and ODD. He has just recently been diagnosed. I knew from the time he was young there was "something", but just couldn't put my finger on it.
As Teresa pointed out, I am an Early Childhood Educator, so I have studied child development and the like as well as special needs. I run my own childcare centre in my home 5 days a week, my son is with me. I have taken so many courses on behavior, positive child guidance, parenting classes, defiant children, special needs children, etc. The list goes on. I have asked advice from other professionals, other parents, I have been to mental health, early intervention and we are now seeing a child psychologist. I spend time with my children every night doing something special with them, one on one of their choosing. I try to have family nights regularly. I discipline and teach right from wrong.
My children don't come from a home of violence, they don't have parents or even family members in jail or with mental disorders. They have loving family members who are there for them and help me and my children as much as they can. My daughter has no behavior issues other than what a normal 7 year old girl would. My son however, is more work than all 7 of my daycare children together.
To sit here and read that a lot of you believe my son's disorders are an excuse for my laziness and bad parenting, well, that really hurts. I do everything I can for my kids and I have tried everything I can think of, every technique I can to try and help my son deal. Some things work, some don't.
Until you have lived in another person's shoes, I don't think anyon should be judging others. You will not understand until you truly live it.

Alahnna - posted on 02/27/2011

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Some of the behaviors my son displays:
-he is very agressive when angry, throws things, kicks at anything near him, hits, screams, tries to hurt me or anyone who goes near him.
-most of the time, when he is told he cannot do what he is doing or cannot have what he wants, he is immediately defiant
-he will often do things he knows he is not allowed to do or take things he`s not supposed to, even when he knows he will be disciplined or have the item taken away that he took
-he often will blame things on others or just lie about it
-he is always a "pest". he is always doing things to deliberately annoy/anger people, especially when he knows it bothers you
-he has no concept of physical boundaries at all, when he talks to you, he has to be like 2 inches from your face.
-he has no self control of his impulses at all, but keep in mind, he has ADHD as well, so some of these characteristics are from that as well.
-he cannot sit still, he's always on the go and is like the energizer bunny, never slows down
-he can tantrum for an hour or more, all because he couldn't have a cookie or because his favorite pants are in the wash. You never know what will set him off in a tantrum.
-he just barrels through everyone, almost like he just doesn't see them, like a toddler does. If you're in the path of him getting to the object of his attention, he goes right through you, or tries to.
-some days, he can behave great, and others are just horrid and I have no idea how I'll get through. He can be the most compassionate little boy then all of a sudden, he's back into this possessed child.
-He gets over stimulated in stores or places with lots of things going on.
Often, I feel like we have to walk on eggshells on bad days because you never know what will set him off in a tantrum. even good days, I find myself wondering if something will happen to change his mood, or if he naps, I worry he'll wake up on the wrong side of the bed. It's like living with a ticking time bomb.

Sara - posted on 02/26/2011

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I worked in social services for many years and I worked with many children who were diagnosed with ODD. These were children who were significantly mentally ill, that would probably fit the criteria to be diagnosed as a sociopath as an adult. In order to be diagnosed with this, at least where I worked, their behavior went above and beyond misbehavior seen in normal children. Often, they were also diagnosed with conduct disorder as well. So, I've seen it, and I would have to say it is a real disorder. I think it's sad that people want to discount it as a failing of parents to do their job properly. That certainly was not the case with the children I worked with.

Jenni - posted on 02/26/2011

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A disorder isn't necessarily chemical in nature. A disorder can also develop because of environment or genetics. The thing is there are parents and doctors who are too quick to give/prescribe a magic "pill" and be done with it. It's too much work to reprogram the child and in some cases the parents. What the parents should be seeking for themselves and their child is non-medicinal councilling and theorpy. The pills don't cure, they surpress; and the child needs special attention to teach them how to cope with their disorder. The same way you would learn to overcome a learning disability should be the same way a behavioural disability is handled.

[deleted account]

My sister is dealing with this now with her oldest 9 year old boy. The 6 year old is fine. The counselor has suggested ODD, bu tit is not favorably looked upon by schools. Yet he was ruled out for any emotional disorder. My nephews suffered the traumatic illness, hospitalization, and subsequent death of their father. The man was dead for hours in the home, locked in a bathroom, while the 2 kids were left unattended. Prior to his death, there were other signs that gave me a red-flag that something just wasnt right with my nephew when he started going to daycare. Now my sister is trying to make an appointement with a behavioralist to get some true answers. My nephew exhibits a lot of symptoms of ODD. But on top of that, my sister is also ill on dialysis 3 time a week, and works the rest of the 4 times a week. Bad parenting? Not exactly....She does what she has to do to maintain health insurance for her kids. As a family we step up to the plate with childcare. But as far as a "cop-out" every kid is different. Her oldest has problems, big problems. Her youngest does not. She parents them the same.

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»Heidi« - posted on 12/22/2011

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I'm coming into this one a bit late... I think it is a cop out! My son's classmate had this and took meds for it. My son would talk about how his friend fell asleep all the time because of his medication. Needless to say, once his parents realized what was going on, they took him off the medications. It was kind of scary!
I think that people just look for a reason to explain behaviors and give them a disorder as that excuse.

Constance - posted on 04/26/2011

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My daughter has been hospitalized because of her ODD getting so far out of control we could't control her. Not something we wanted to do but is was a last resort. When she came home a week later I had put in place very specific scheduale, but she still is a ticking time bomb and I do have to make sure she isn't starting to lose control. But kids with ODD can't get set off with anything no matter how small the issue. I have three other childen ho all get additudes but it doesn't compare to her outbursts. They don't last for minutes they last for hours. No matte what you do.

[deleted account]

Geesh I hope no one actually falls for that 'you have an inheritance, all you have to do is western union me $10,000 first' crap lol.

[deleted account]

I wonder what she / he is actually getting at? If you say you'll be her friend, then what? You get directed to a porn site or something?

Isobel - posted on 04/22/2011

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she just spammed all the threads last night asking people to be her friend and email her or something like that

Jenni - posted on 04/22/2011

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Steph, just some spam. She wanted us to email her and she's looking for a good relationship and she will send us a pic of herself. blah blah blah.

Jacquie - posted on 03/03/2011

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I don't know who just posted the last two posts (your name and picture are missing) but my daughter has those extreme days- fits her to a t! Most days you can see she's trying so hard to be calm that it is painful to watch. Breaks my heart that it has to be so hard for her- and that other people are constantly labeling her as "bad". Kudos to you for standing up for them!

April - posted on 03/03/2011

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PS To all of you Moms out there that really have children with ODD...I know your children may not be as extreme as I have described above (not all children with ODD are physically violent or purposely cruel). From reading your posts, I know how hard you work with your children to help them have a better life. I hope some of the other posters change their mind about this being a fancy label for a lazy, rude, fill in the blank child/teen.

April - posted on 03/03/2011

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It's frustrating that some people on this thread cannot see the difference between the typical child being defiant (like my 2 year old whose favorite word is no) and the child who truly has ODD. In the world of ODD, these children aren't just rebelling/being defiant. Many are doing other things, such as blaming others for something they did (stealing, breaking something) and being spiteful/seeking revenge. In half of the cases (52%), spitefulness and revenge seeking becomes much worse (Conduct Disorder). Children and teens who develop CD do things such as hurt animals(beating with a stick, setting them on fire) and people, as well. It's like regular defiance with a twist. A little fire inside this child/adolescent that makes their behavior atypical. I feel like I have been repeating myself over and over in this thread. It's really annoying! edit to add- the ODD child's behavior persists...behavior lasts at least 6 months. It's not like the once in a blue moon temper tantrum. They can have one at any time...ticking time bomb. You just don't know when, where and why. Typical children are more predictable than the ODD child.

Angela - posted on 03/02/2011

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Okay so I didnt know what this was until the post so I researched it:
http://aacap.org/cs/root/facts_for_famil...

It may Be a disorder but there are always parents who think that there children may have this because they simply cant take control of their children, its just like ADHD or ADD.

MMMMMM....I think Im gonna make up my own diagnosis for curing these children its called "get your ass in check or your gonna be in trouble" cure.

Meghan - posted on 03/02/2011

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totally reminds me of my ex. I don't think it is bs. Do I think it should be an excuse though? Nope. I don't think that any disorder should be an excuse. It explains behaviors, but doesn't excuse them. Public education and support

Jenni - posted on 03/02/2011

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My brother and I came from a home of abuse. He was diagnosed ADHD and ODD. My mother is mentally unstable and highly open to suggestion. Of course I don't know much about her medical history but I know she spent some time in a mental health institute when she was 17. When she was 47 she was treated with EST (I myself am shocked they still preform it). She's never been able to cope/manage challenges so her solution to my brother's behavioural issues was ritalin. My father and his side of the family suffer from a slew of mental/behavioural illnesses.

Now 21, my brother was diagnosed at 18 with skitzophrenia, bi-polar disorder and I'm certain he would be considered sociopathic. So was the original diagnosis a blanket for some larger issues? I'd suspect so. Did his environment contribute to his mental illness... I'd suspect that as well. And it's hard to deny considering my family medical history that genetics contributed as well.

My brother will tell you himself... he needs his medication to prevent himself from hurting others or himself. But he needs theorpy and councilling to deal with the deeper issues that have caused/contribute to his ailments.

So basically, I'm not trying to say ALL children with this diagnosis are a product of bad parenting. But in my own personal experience I believe it was a large contributing factor.

Carol - posted on 03/02/2011

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Jacquie- You are the parent im talking about, you have tried everything for your child till you had to seek help and even then reluctantly. Amy, you are the same, you are workign with your children but to many parents would rather their child be put on medications. When i first met my mother in law she was telling me how my husband had ADHD as a kid and he was on medications before they adopted him. The day he entered their home was the last day he ever took medications. We even tried to get my mom to take my nephew off his medication because he wasnt eatting, he was sickly and looked dead (pasty skin, dark circles under his eyes) and the only problem we had was hyper activity from him. This meant alot of trips to the park, and some days just to let him run it out and play outside.

Iridescent - posted on 03/02/2011

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Jacquie, I really feel for you! My oldest son has PDD-NOS and his medications were only started this last fall because he was suicidal. Our goals for him, we had to fight the school for (and change schools), but they revolve around independent living as an adult. Do I care if he can memorize history or politics? No! Do I care that he's struggling to understand what he's reading, or count money, or know what the value of money is, or hold a conversation? Very much so, so our goals are centered around those specific items. He's in a regular classroom with adaptations. He's 11.

Our other child with ASD is moderately Autistic. He's only 3. We're doing our best with him, and in many ways he's almost identical to how or oldest was at the same age. If it weren't for the progress we saw between 3 and 11 with our oldest, we wouldn't have much hope for this one. But since we do see the potential, we're trying. So far, we're working on attention span (expand from 3 seconds to closer to 10), answering Yes/No questions, and putting food in his mouth. These goals don't sound like much, but they are! It's the start towards being independent as an adult.

They don't have to be lonely, but they need very accepting friends. My oldest's friends understand that he dominates what they do, and just take it in small amounts. They have fun spending time together even if they aren't playing together. Our youngest has a couple friends, one of which is also autistic, and they talk to each other more than they ever do to anyone else! So many people didn't realize either could talk until they saw them together! They hold hands and play, whereas normally they don't allow contact.

Rules apply for each of the kids, and they get disciplined based on their ability to understand - I like http://www.childbrain.com/pddq11.shtml

My oldest son's first diagnosis was literally "bad parenting". I nearly gave both my kids at the time up for adoption as a result. I thought I was that bad of a parent! And I didn't see any way I could improve when I was already doing all I could. We got a second opinion, and found out what was really wrong. We may never know why, but we at least know what, and the treatment helps because the diagnosis is correct. If someone told me any one of my kids has ODD, I'd tell them they're as wrong as they can be, because we are there for our kids, consistent, and it's simply not possible since the family dynamic to cause it is not there. Unfortunately, not everyone knows to do this. They need to learn.

Jenni - posted on 03/02/2011

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Sorry I may have come across as saying these children don't need medication. I meant that some parents may think that's *all* their child needs. A pill and it's cured.

Jacquie - posted on 03/02/2011

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Wow. I will reiterate something that I said on a previous post on this thread. I do agree that a lot of parents use these labels as an excuse for bad parenting, but it is truly those of us that are doing everything we can to help our kids who not only get wrung through the wringer by our kids, but by other parents and society as well. I thought a lot of the labels were bull too. When my now 8 ½ year old, Abby, started having problems, we were all shocked. No one was more attended to or loved then that little girl, who began her life with a sweet disposition, but something in her always seemed off. She stopped making eye-contact, wouldn’t engage anyone in play, wouldn’t speak, threw terrible tantrums. I refused to give her something that she wanted until she would at least attempt eye-contact and eventually say the words. When autism was thrown on the table, I couldn’t believe it. I hated labels. So she had some problems? I would fix them. Not medicinally, however, but through behavior modification and occupational therapy. I refused to allow her to be in special needs classroom for over 5 years. When I finally allowed her in one, I pulled her out after a little over a year, because I felt they were too lax. I am now home schooling. Not one pill touched that child’s lips until 14 months ago when she was threatening to harm herself. I have tried everything form of discipline there is ( I am a military brat, I KNOW discipline and totally agree with needing it, no matter your age). We have put off having any more children (our daughter Ava was born in Dec of 09, and was quite unexpected) I love how most people jump to the conclusion that troubled children are unloved children, but ABBY wouldn’t bond with us. Not all of us with kids like this let the diagnosis excuse the bad behavior. Abby still has to function in the real world, and so she has to figure out how to get past her problems, which is what her dad and I are here for. But it is a thankless job, more than any other parents with typical children could imagine. Abby hates us for making her do the right thing, one side of society shuns us for having “spoiled children” and being “bad parents” and the other half of society shuns us for being “too hard” and “mean” to her by not letting her turn her disorder into an excuse. And yes, it is a disorder. It is a lonely life, and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone. I hope I do not come across as b*chy but, I am so tired of feeling like less of a parent when I NEVER stop trying to be a great one. There are so many mothers out there like me too, getting swept under the rug because of people not looking at the whole picture. We are moms, and we should be supporting each other, not judging.

Carol - posted on 03/02/2011

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Jennifer your post is very insight full and very well written. Teresa, like I said, a military style of dicipline wont work for all families, and for some it will. However, with so many people jumping when their kid isnt acting ideal as they would want, why not take your kid to the doctor and get a prescription, What did our grandparents and great parents and so on do? I doubt it was take them to the doctor and put the kid on a medication. However, if the parents truly have tried everythign they can and have no way out they by all means once you have used everything from the book take your kid to get help, but if you just dont want to deal with them, i guess getting a 'designer' child is ideal for some.

Iridescent - posted on 03/02/2011

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That's all the more reason you need to get a new psych if you think your child has been misdiagnosed. Considering this is a disorder of families, and there are specific environmental factors which contribute (proven), if those things are not present at all, then the child has something else going on! So if you're certain you are not hurting your child, inconsistent, etc, get them to a psych that will look a little harder for the cause, especially when the treatment catered to ODD is not helping your child. Yes, the symptoms often look the same from one thing to the next, but the cause and the treatment, hence the outcome, are not. THIS is called a misdiagnosis, and should not be taken personally or put the parents on the defensive. It does require them to push a little more to find the real cause, instead of just saying "okay, this is the answer, the treatment isn't helping but it's what is wrong."

[deleted account]

Well, then that answers my question that you didn't read the real life examples on this post.



Putting a name to a disorder is NOT giving an excuse for bad behavior (and the people that use it as such are wrong), but more along the lines of finding the RIGHT help and resources to overcome or at the very least MANAGE the disorder.



Yes, it will be overdiagnosed and misdiagnosed..... just like some physical ailments/disorders/etc.... Unfortunately nothiing is exact and kids don't come w/ precise instruction manuals. What works for one may completely backfire for another.

Jenni - posted on 03/02/2011

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Excellent point Kaleigh, so many children receive a blanket diagnoses with ADHD, ADD, ODD. It's really sad when they are being treated for say, ADD when they have some other learning disability. I think Monique started a thread where her son was diagnosed with ADD and they just found out he is colour-blind and couldn't read the chalkboard.

[deleted account]

I have a friend who's eldest son was diagnosed with this I do feel its a legit disorder but I do fear that it may become the new ADD in the sense that doctors are going to over diagnose. My son is currently seeing a behavioural specialist because his daycare and occuptaional therapists and speech therapist think he has Autism spectrum disorder. The problem here is he resmembles autism in some ways and the average 3 year old boy in others, they've suspected ADD but can not lump him into that catagory because it's not quite clear. With all the recent hub bub over this ODD and CD my fear is if they can not fit him neatly into one disorder they will try the next one, the longer we go without a clear diagnosis the more likely they will be to just slap a label on him such as ODD and I know my son does not have this disorder. For him his behaviour is a symptom of a deeper issue not a chemical imbalance nor a syndrome. He behaves the way he does for a mixture of reasons mainly frustration though. The problem we face right now is the frustration is being caused by the speech delay and the speech delay is being caused by what exactly? Anyway I will argue that if they try to diagnose him with it because I know he doesn't have it but I do believe it is a real disorder just like ADD or Autism.

Jenni - posted on 03/02/2011

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Ok but here's another example of someone confusing normal developemental stages with the disorder. Toddlers are in the stage of independence and exhibit most if not all of the symptoms of ODD. Again, when a child reaches the teen years (and funny how that the two stages are often compared to each other) they are fighting again for independence and will exhibit similar symptoms to ODD. The difference between "normal" childhood developement and having the disorder is... they never mature past the terrible twos stage (in some cases regardless of style of parenting). It is as if they are emotionally stunted at this age. This is why specialists refuse to diagnose toddlers with ODD or similarly ADHD, ADD.

It's not as though these disorders are anything new that just starting popping up. It's that they put a name to the disorders. Let's define disorder: a derangement or abnormality of function; a morbid physical or mental state. So with disorders such as ODD, ADHD, ADD they are legitimate disorders when the child exhibits "abnormal" behaviour. Not typical toddler or teen rebellion.

Of courses the causes are unknown but experts speculate it could be one or a combination of:

■A child's natural disposition

■Limitations or developmental delays in a child's ability to process thoughts and feelings

■Lack of supervision

■Inconsistent or harsh discipline

■Abuse or neglect

■An imbalance of certain brain chemicals, such as serotonin



So yes Carol it can be due to parenting they've simply put a name to these types of extreme behaviours so they can be more easily treated. Of course there are parents out there who think the cure is in a prescription. As well as doctors out there who are quick to diagnose children without the disorder and prescribe a pill. Instead of seeking councilling, changing parenting style, or other non-medicinal theorpies.

Carol - posted on 03/02/2011

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Teresa do you know in the last few years their has been a wide spectrum of disorders that had poped up that werent disorders before? My nephew for example, day dreams, now he has a disorder because he day dreams. My own sister who refused to listen and buclked at every thing my mother asked of her, even goign as far (since my family does have military background) so yell in a Marine sergents face. Very disobediant, very insolent and how did my mother handle it, she made my sister write sentances, not 10 or 20, hundreds and if my mom didnt like how they turned out she would have to write more. She did this with both of my sisters who couldnt obey simple things or in the case of my oldest sister, punched a teacher in the face, mind you my middle sister wasnt as bad as my oldest. There is a myraid of other things my mom did that didnt include spanking that showed my sisters what would happen if they didnt listen. She didnt lock them up, she didnt lay a hand on them, no she exhausted them, the only form of punishment that isnt extreme and does get the point of obedience acrossed fast and simple. This is why it seems like BS to me I have had obedience problems in my family and they where effectivly taken care of. Being in the military myself, I have seen someone that would defy a drill sergent any chance they got changed in a matter of a few days. Not every parent will think about doing what the military does because not many have been in the military, most will take their kid to a pediatrictian who will then be taking their child to see a specialist, when it may be that the child needs to have their energy, how many take their kids out to the park once in a blue moon? Its a new classification of disorder, in other worldsi t what everyone in movies likes to call ' teen rebellion' that time when a child normally late adolesent, early teens to late teens where they are sick of being treated like a kid, and want to be respected as adults. Here are some refrences, I just wanted to know when it was discovered, and what it is about.

http://medical-dictionary.thefreediction...
http://www.answers.com/topic/oppositiona...

ME - posted on 03/02/2011

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I studied counseling and worked with tweens and teens for 18 months after receiving my MS degree...This is a real disorder; there is no room for debate. The real issue is whether or not it might be over-diagnosed...

April - posted on 03/02/2011

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Erin, with all due respect, if you child had this disorder, you'd see that it goes beyond ordinary childhood misbehavior. Did you read some of the other posts? These moms don't "let their children get away with it". They try things like behavior modification and therapy. Some of these families spend thousands of dollars trying to help their children overcome this disorder. Now, in your defense, I am sure there are some families that abuse the label of ODD, as well. It's just not fair to make a blanket statement, saying that this disorder is nonexistent. These children have severe social problems, not unlike those on the Autism spectrum. Would you say parents of children with that disorder aren't working hard enough to correct their children's behavior?

Erin - posted on 03/02/2011

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ok so they want to say that there is a medical term for children to be disobediant and defiant but that doesn't give the child the right to get away with it if any child does anything they should they should get what is coming to them with reason i know no medical name for disobediant child in my house would get away with it i would try my best to think that i haven't been told a thing about it and treat my child like a normal everyday child what does something wrong needs what they have coming i dont thing that just because someone can name it doesn't mean it applies

[deleted account]

Carol, did you even read about the real life people on this post that have daily experience w/ this disorder...... ??

Carol - posted on 03/01/2011

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I think its related to 'teen rebelion' aka: respect my athoratay! Its BS. Thats like day dreaming is now a disorder, soon their goign to claim life is a disorder and have somethign to fix that too!

April - posted on 02/28/2011

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At least your 3 year old wears undies. I can't get the diaper off my 2 year old! :(

[deleted account]

This is a little bit off topic buuutttt....my 3 year old just peed on my foot!!!! Time to wash mi patas and clean up the floor. Oh and new undies for the kiddo is probably a good idea, too. :D

April - posted on 02/28/2011

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i wasn't trying to group families, by the way. i was just trying to say the ODD children come from all sorts of families. There are low income families that are wonderful and there are those that are not so wonderful. There are higher income families that are wonderful and then there are those who are not. That is also what I meant, too.

April - posted on 02/28/2011

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Thank you Teresa! You always get what I mean!!! :) It is frustrating to be misunderstood. I am glad to have help being understood!

Jenni - posted on 02/28/2011

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Yeah, and considering your upbringing it would have been even more in your face. I mean my family was upper middle class but considering we lived in a small town, economics really weren't very important. So I'm guessing that's why we may have slightly different observations when looking back.

Maybe the first time it'll work ;)

[deleted account]

"low income is a possible symptom of neglect... Neglect isn't a symptom of low income"

Exactly! I agree 100%! I wasn't trying to group the neglected versus the well cared for kids in a general way, it's just where I lived everything really was extremely segregated like that. It wasn't a good place for a kid, especially if you didn't have money. Even the adults there and teachers acted like snotty high school students if you were the poor kid who didnt have designer clothes and if you didn't have parents who worked at the atomic plant. Maybe that's why I'm so obsessed with designer purses now??? ; ) Next time I buy one and my husband complains I'll tell him I had to bc of my childhood trauma lol. Think that'd fly? ; )

Jenni - posted on 02/28/2011

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no, I get what you're saying.... I just don't like to group all low income families into the "neglectful" group. All high-income families into the "well cared for" group. It's just that there are so many hard working low income families out there who are very involved with children. Maybe it's just that... neglectful parents are usually neglectful in other aspects of their life. They're just neglectful/lazy people and that's why they are in the position they are. But I don't think income should be the "decider"? of who those people are? make sense? ok... ummm low income is a possible symptom of neglect... Neglect isn't a symptom of low income.



Edit to add: Hhaha I think we're both on the same page now I see you nearly echoed what I said in your last post.

[deleted account]

Also maybe it's that parents who are of the frame of mind to neglect their kids are also neglecting other aspects of their lives like their employment. I don't think that 'money' or lack of is a reason to have a learning disability, thats not what Im saying at all. I'm just sticking all of the childhood visions of my school out there to try to make sense of it with an adult mind, rather than with a 4th grade mind. Does that make sense?



Maybe I'm just not wording my thoughts in the right way. I'm afraid I'm coming across in a way that I don't mean. Maybe I should just delete what Ive said until I find the right words to be more clearly understood bc I dont want this to come out like Im being a shallow a-hole bc that is the farthest thing from what I mean or who I am.

[deleted account]

I know that just bc you are low income doesn't mean you dress grubby! That's not what I was saying at all. I grew up with absolutely nothing yet i did well in school and bathed everyday and had zero parental involvement. What I am talking about it what I observed in the elementery school I went to. The special education kids were all in one class, seperate from everyone else. There wasn't one child in that class with a good home life. They are all unkept and looked poorly cared for. There were no kids in that class with involved parents. I know it isn't like that everywhere. The question I had is what is making the difference. It wasn't an insult to anyone, certainly not to low income families. I of all people know what it's like to struggle and not have things.

Jenni - posted on 02/28/2011

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An observation. I also knew plenty of kids from low income families who were popular and did well at school. Just because you are low income doesn't mean you necessarily dress grubby. It's just to you, the ones who did, stood out. You probably wouldn't notice the kids from low income families who's parents weren't neglectful. They would appear like any other kid. The same can be said about some kids from high income families who, let's say their parents both worked and don't spend much time with their children. I think it's more to do with parental involvement not family income.

[deleted account]

I wonder what the statistics of something like that are? I would never stereotype or pigeon hole any group of people but just from my own observation as a child in school the children who were in the special education classes tended to be "poor kids" who often looked dirty and neglected. The children who were at the top of the class and won honors were the more 'popular' kids who were always nicely dressed and clean and who's parents were very involved with our class and school life. Why do you think that is??? Does income play a role or is it the life style of their parents and having a low income is a side effect of another problem? I know 100% that parental involvement is a extremely beneficial.

It's not a judgement, simply a childhood observation.

Jenni - posted on 02/28/2011

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Yes, but free tutoring services are available from the No Child Left Behind act. Not to mention all the online resources.

[deleted account]

I'm not her, but I'm going to 'assume' (yes, I know what that makes me) she is referring to the fact that if a child from a low income family needs extra academic help.... they may not be able to pay for a tutor (as an example), but w/ a label the child may qualify for extra assistance for free.

Jenni - posted on 02/28/2011

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Sorry I can't see your name but the poster above me... am I just being sensitive here? I just found this part a little offensive, maybe I'm misinterpreting it:
"I am mostly thinking of kids from low income families who need extra help with academics and therefore have behavior problems due to their difficulties in school."
I'm not understanding how a family's income has anything to do with how well they are educating their children.

April - posted on 02/28/2011

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Sometimes schools won't do anything for a child unless that child has a label. I do think that some children don't actually have the disorder, but they do require special help that they wouldn't otherwise get if they did not have a diagnosis. I am mostly thinking of kids from low income families who need extra help with academics and therefore have behavior problems due to their difficulties in school. It may not be true ODD, but without the label, they fall through the cracks. The plus side is that the kid gets help. The downside is that people get a false impression of what kids with true ODD are really like.

As a previous poster mentioned, some disabilities cannot be seen. Sometimes kids appear to have it all: nice house, lots of toys, wonderful family. When problems start appearing, it is immediately assumed that Mom and Dad are spoiling the child. This all being said, whether the child is from a healthy, loving family or whether the child is living an abusive house, or lives with a family that neglects him/her (latch key), whether that child is wealthy or poor; any of these kids could have ODD. Some are more likely to develop it than others, but it could be anyone's child. It could be your next baby.

[deleted account]

My heart goes out to you ladies. You both sound like such wonderful mothers. Unfortunately it happens in alot of situations, where lazy or ignorant people ruin something for everyone. I can imagine that it's like pulling teeth to be taken seriously and get proper treatment. After reading all of your posts I really do feel awful that ODD was something I kind of rolled my eyes at. I didn't mean it to be mean, I was just thinking about the ones who use it as a cop out for bad parenting and not considering the ones who actually do have a severe disorder. I didn't consider that it was a diagnosis for a real disorder at all, I just thought it was a new name for disrespectful and bratty teenagers. I am so sorry. I've learned alot through this and really appreciate that you've told you stories. Also, I am a pediatric nurse but I haven't worked in 5 years bc I became a stay at home mom, but am planning to go back to work a few days a week pretty soon. I'm glad that I learned alot more about this before going back to work bc this diagnosis didn't exist to my knowledge when I last worked. Things are constantly changing. And I'm really appreciative that I learned about this from the 1st hand experience of 'real people' rather than a generic online report. Thank you all again. You are all extremely strong women, my hat is off to you.



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