Opting Out of Child Support

Isobel - posted on 02/18/2011 ( 37 moms have responded )

9,849

0

286

OK...so I'm stealing this reallllllly old conversation from another community.

Do you think that a man (since they have NO say in whether or not a woman has a baby or an abortion) should be able to sign over their parental rights in exchange for not paying child support?

MOST HELPFUL POSTS

Isobel - posted on 02/18/2011

9,849

0

286

But if a woman has the RIGHT to choose whether or not to become a parent...shouldn't a man have that same right?

Krista - posted on 02/18/2011

12,562

16

847

How many men refuse to wear condoms as is... why would they really care to if they knew if they got the woman pregnant they could just sign over rights.

Jennifer DOES raise a good point. Oftentimes nowadays, the only thing keeping some jerks wearing condoms is the knowledge that they don't want to knock anybody up and be on the hook for child support.

Personally, I feel the same way towards men and women: if you know perfectly well that you do NOT want a kid, then use multiple forms of birth control. If you're a man, you can wear a condom with spermicide and can pull out prior to ejaculation. No, it's not foolproof, but it's pretty damn close. If you're a woman, you go on the Pill or IUD, and you also use spermicidal film or foam, and don't let him near you until you can see that he has a condom firmly planted on his pecker.

Yes, the odd, determined swimmer will still break through, but it wouldn't happen too darned often if people would just be vigilant about protecting themselves.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 02/23/2011

21,273

9

3058

Nope...a man knows the potential to sticking his dick in a women and cumming...gee whiz...you mean I could have a kid becouse of me jizzing in a vagina? Oops.

If the women alone decides to have the kid and never tell the guy (which is wicked shady) then she should obviously expect no help.

Amie - posted on 02/18/2011

6,596

20

412

Holly it depends on where you live. I know in Ontario (not sure about other provinces or outside the country) that the woman has to sign the papers allowing the man to give up his rights.

One of my friends has a little girl, the dad wants to sign away his rights - has said so from the beginning - does NOT want a child - it was a casual relationship, etc. - she said no. So they're in court. I have no idea what the outcome of that will be. She knew all along he didn't want to be a part of the child's life - yet still wants the money. It wasn't his fault (entirely) for getting her pregnant and she said no when he asked her if she'd abort. This is where they are now.

Crazy stuff that women are allowed to get away with. We have all the rights (in theory) might as well keep it that way entirely. Our bodies, our babies, our responsibility, our money.

Isobel - posted on 02/18/2011

9,849

0

286

or more women KNOWING that their boyfriend is a dick BEFORE they decide to have the baby

37 Comments

View replies by

~♥Little Miss - posted on 02/23/2011

21,273

9

3058

Oh shit...I read that wrong...yes I do think they should be able to sign over parental rights, but only if that is the agreement on both parties...I still stand behind my other statement that men should have to pay child support if a child is born even if he doesn't want it.

Lady Heather - posted on 02/23/2011

2,448

17

91

I actually think it should be allowed within the same time contrainsts as abortion. If a woman feels unable to care for her child she always has the option of abortion or adoption. It seems unfair that men have no real say in whether or not they become parents. No, they should not be able to wait until the kid is born and change their mind. It should be in the first few months of pregnancy, just like abortion.

Melissa - posted on 02/23/2011

1

0

0

Yes.*
*With a rather drawn-out and unsexy clause.
Only if both parties come to an agreement, probably written, before engaging in a sexual relationship which states that:
1. Neither party wants to have children from this relationship.
2. Reasonably adequate birth control methods are being properly utilized to prevent pregnancy from occurring.
3. Should an unintentional pregnancy occur, the female has agreed that the pregnancy shall be terminated through abortion.
If all of this is agreed to beforehand, it only seems fair that the man, having stated his intentions, should not be held any more liable than the woman, who has the choice of abortion.
However, without this agreement, I would have to change my answer to "NO" because then men would be able to change their minds mid-pregnancy and leave the woman saddled with everything. In cases where everything hasn't been planned out and discussed, we all have to accept that pregnancy is often a result of heterosexual intercourse.

Becky - posted on 02/19/2011

2,892

44

93

Hmmm, I don't really know. I'm not pro-choice to begin with - my opinion is that if you choose to have sex, you choose to accept the possibility of becomming parents. However, since the choice currently is there for women, I think it's only fair that it be there for the man too. But, I don't think he should be allowed to sign away his parental rights and then come back 10 years later and say he changed his mind and wants to be involved in the child's life. That's not fair to the child.

Stifler's - posted on 02/19/2011

15,141

154

604

If the woman doesn't consult them/let them know re: the decision, then yes they should be allowed to opt out. But if they're not paying unless they have 50/50 custody he shouldn't be allowed to be acknowledged as the father. Women who wait until their child is 8 knowing full well who the father is and not telling them they have a kid and then try to hit the dad up for backpay should be told to go to hell too.

Lacye - posted on 02/19/2011

2,011

31

164

In the state I live in, a man can sign over his rights, but the judge can still decide to force him to pay child support. Men do seem to get the shitty end of the deal when it comes to kids.

Isobel - posted on 02/19/2011

9,849

0

286

I don't know if I would agree with letting them opt out AFTER a baby is born...that's a little over the top for me

Petra - posted on 02/19/2011

533

16

22

I absolutely do - every reason you've put out there, Laura, I've been nodding along with. Father's rights are sorely lacking and women hold all of the power when it comes to children. If a woman makes the choice to trap a man by getting pregnant, he should have the choice to opt out. In an honest-to-goodness accidental pregnancy, she gets to choose and he has to abide by her decision, unless she agrees to let him off the hook. If she changes her mind down the road, he's fucked. Currently, a man can legally sign off on his rights, as long as the mother consents, which few do as this means losing support payments. The law is heavily biased in favor of mothers.

I'll take it even further, though: if a mother makes the father's life a living hell, he should also have the choice to opt out without her consent. Our legal system in Canada is slowing shifting, but still maintains the status quo and blatantly favors mothers. Father's have so many hurdles, on top of arbitrary support guidelines, and very little works in their favor. I'd love to see a complete revision of the Family Law Act to incorporate real rights for Fathers.

Lacye - posted on 02/19/2011

2,011

31

164

Well since the man has no say what so ever if the woman wants to keep the baby, I think he should have the right to say that he wants to sign over his rights and not have to pay child support. I may sound like a bitch when I say this but if it was the other way around and she didn't want the child but he did, it wouldn't really matter what he thought about the situation. So she wanted the child and he doesn't, she shouldn't have much to say about it either. She and the child is better of without the douche. :)

Jenni - posted on 02/19/2011

5,928

34

393

No, I agree... but most cases aren't so black and white... that's what I'm getting at....

Both parties could be being equally irresponsible.

I am definitely all about father's rights. My husband has a child from another relationship and she decided to have the baby even though he didn't want a child with her. He even suggested abortion to her. But she claimed she didn't believe in it and had his daughter. If he had signed over his rights (for arguements sake )instead of my husband paying support. Assistance would be. She's held many things over his head and caused him tons of drama with threats about not letting him see his daughter when she didn't get her way over the smallest thing. So damn right, I'm all about father's rights. We practically raised that little girfl half the time because her mother is a lazy cow and still paid full CS.

I'm more curious on how this would affect society as whole.

Or maybe watching too much Maury before I got cable has rotted my brain on the idea. :)

Tara - posted on 02/19/2011

2,567

14

114

If he has taken precautions to avoid a pregnancy and the woman has agreed that they are not having sex to create a baby, than why should his life be changed when if she chose to abort the baby and he wanted her to keep it he would have no rights. Why should she be able to keep it and force him to pay support if he wants nothing to do with the child?

[deleted account]

Honestly, I don't give a flying crap about how it will affect abortion rates. I care about the rights of the FATHER that are being infringed upon through no choice of his own. If a man takes precautions to not get his girlfriend (or fling, or whatever) pregnant (and yes, a woman telling his she's on the pill or something so it's 'ok' is taking proper precautions IMO) and she still gets pregnant, why should his life be disrupted if she chooses to keep the baby? A mother who decides to adopt her baby out after birth can say she doesn't know who the father is and he's never looked for, but she can keep the baby and go after him for support? Ridiculous in my opinion. Fathers tend to get teh short end of the stick and it really bugs me. In fact, I'm thinking of entering law school and becoming a family law laywer who specializes in father's rights.

[deleted account]

I thought this was already the case? I seriously thought if a man (or woman) singed over their legal rights to the child they got off? Hmmm... I guess I was wrong...



I really think men should be able to do that. I am a HUGE advocate for father's rights - including the right to want to woman to have an abortion and not have to pay child support if she chooses to continue the pregnancy and have the child. It is against his wishes, so why should he have to pay as well? In my opinion, that ridiculous...

Jenn - posted on 02/18/2011

2,683

36

96

This is a tough one, but I'm going to say yes. Yes for a man or a woman. If you want NOTHING to do with the child, then I would want nothing to do you with being in my child's life - and that includes your money.

Isobel - posted on 02/18/2011

9,849

0

286

It would stop girls from getting knocked up to keep a guy (I still can't believe people do that), it would stop them from fantasizing that everything's gonna be peachy after the baby's born (cause he will love US)...I think women would be MORE responsible with their birth control.



I think all the responsibility already falls on the woman if the man wants to bugger off he just does.



Why should we be the only ones with the right to say no?

Nikkole - posted on 02/18/2011

1,505

31

49

I think the man should have a choice (its not the ideal situation) But if a man who so willingly gives up there own flesh and blood then WHY would you want that man in your child's life?? My dad paid his support but i would have rather him give up rights he is an awful man he told me i was a mistake and he tried to get my mom to have an abortion, and when i got pregnant with my son he told me i was stupid for making such a HUGE mistake and he has seen my kids once and all he did was look at them shake his head and walked away i haven't seen him (like visited with him) in YEARS!!!

Bonnie - posted on 02/18/2011

4,813

22

262

Although it takes two to make a baby and the father of the child should always be there, I suppose it makes sense.

[deleted account]

Absolutely, YES -- if both parties agree or if the man can prove it was not his intent to become pregnant and that he took all necessary precautions.

Brandi - posted on 02/18/2011

406

40

5

No. Not unless the woman agrees that she is fine with it. If she doesn't care, then yes, he should.

Jenni - posted on 02/18/2011

5,928

34

393

If we lived in a world full of responsible people then I'd totally agree with this idea. It sounds good in theory.

But since we don't all it will do is shift all the responsibility onto one gender. The one that is already carrying the weight of the responsibility.

Amie - posted on 02/18/2011

6,596

20

412

Laura still has the most valid point. I still agree with her. Women hold all the rights. If we want to abort but the father wants the kids - too bad. Our bodies, our choice. Right?
If the woman walks in knowing the father doesn't want to be there (or delays telling him until after the baby is born) that's still on her. She still chose to go ahead knowing (or speculating) that she is/could be doing this on her own.

Most women would find a way to do it.

Jenni - posted on 02/18/2011

5,928

34

393

Well then I guess we need more workshops for women with low self-esteem. We could call it: "Is He in Love? Or am I the Fool?"

Rosie - posted on 02/18/2011

8,657

30

321

i knew my ex was a dick when he left while i was pregnant, didn't change my stance on aborting my own child. i just can't and won't ever do it. (well, maybe if i was raped, but i still don't know for sure). the only thing that happened was i was left with a child to raise on my own, he got off scott free, and the government had to make up for his lack of responsibility.

Rosie - posted on 02/18/2011

8,657

30

321

the only thing i can see coming out of this situation would be more people using welfare, or government assistance. or maybe more children in orphanages. there would be nothing good to come out of it, other than letting more men be pigs and leave their responsibilities.

Jenni - posted on 02/18/2011

5,928

34

393

So easy to just sign a paper.... not so easy to decide to get an abortion. In many women's cases it's not even an option. How much easier is it to go to court and sign a paper than it is to make (in some people's opinion) a life or death decision with your unborn child.

Let's try this common scenerio...

You're pro-life (or even pro-choice can just mean you think it's right that women have a choice doesn't necessarily mean you believe in abortion for yourself). You're foolishly in love with a man who's just using you for sex. You believe all his lies and BS... he tells you he wants you to have his babies... you believe him so slack off on your BC. You become pregnant. He pulls the "well I don't want kids right now, you should abort". The woman doesn't believe in abortion. And they man decides he wants nothing to do with her or her child. She has the child (she had no other choice because of her beliefs) and now assistance is forced to pick up the slack of father.

Isobel - posted on 02/18/2011

9,849

0

286

If he files formal papers with the court that states his wish for you to have an abortion in time for you to have one, then you are making an informed decision to do it by yourself.

Rosie - posted on 02/18/2011

8,657

30

321

i don't know, i'm torn. i did take away my exes rights, but i only did because i had a father figure in my sons life. that was also the ONLY way that my state would allow me to take his rights away, or for him to hand over his rights (which he was definitely willing to do), they had to have another person lined up to be legally responsible for my son. my husband also had to adopt him, not just be married to me and be his step-dad.

i don't like the idea of not being responsible at all. too many men jump out on their responsibilities right now, can you imagine how that number would go up if they weren't held responsible at all? i don't know, it just reeks of ickiness to me.

Jenni - posted on 02/18/2011

5,928

34

393

I'm going to have to disagree. My stance is pro-"choice" meaning a woman has the right to choose. If she is against abortion or can't handle the idea of adoption (i'm sure most women couldn't). Why should that be a loophole of getting out of paying child support?
A man who is not forced to carry that child for 9 months has no real sense of bond with his unborn child, how many would back out and sign over rights? And alot would probably regret it later on.
And now... who pays for all these children when the father does back out of support? Assistance. You, me, everyone.
How many men refuse to wear condoms as is... why would they really care to if they knew if they got the woman pregnant they could just sign over rights. Sign a paper and it's done with.
This leaves BC entirely in the hands of the woman. (Not that it isn't already). But why use a condom if you know there will be no consequence? at least not for you.

Amie - posted on 02/18/2011

6,596

20

412

Yes. If he's not going to be involved and is willing to sign his rights away. Let him. At least he's owning the fact that he doesn't want to be a father and is going about it in a responsible way.

He could be like my ex and just walk away, need a court order and child maintenance to continually track him to get child support. Have spotty (if any) contact. He knows he's a crap father, he just doesn't want to give up his rights because I have his "oldest boy". /:) Not a good enough reason, he only carries your genes anyway, he has my name.

Either be a parent or don't. None of this in between bullshit that does make it harder on the kids.

Isobel - posted on 02/18/2011

9,849

0

286

It may surprise more than a couple people to hear that I think they SHOULD be able to....within reason. I think that the decision should have to be made within the same time frame that the woman has to decide to have the baby or not, and he should have to formally go register that choice in court.

Join Circle of Moms

Sign up for Circle of Moms and be a part of this community! Membership is just one click away.

Join Circle of Moms