Population Control

~♥Little Miss - posted on 06/23/2011 ( 64 moms have responded )

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The thread on GMO foods made me think of this. Less people, less need for GMO food, less people, less pollution, less people, less wars....should there be a cap on how many kids people can have? Should we need permission to breed?

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Jenny - posted on 06/23/2011

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I agree education is the way right now but that is going to change very soon. We can't keep adding industry and infrastructure to the Earth and that is what more children means. We can't recycle and garden our way out that strain on our planet.



I know most people don't think we can affect the Earth but we need to open our eyeballs. We've felt the tornadoes, we're up to our ears in floods, we have areas with no drinkable water, our cancer rates are climbing. I don't understand how one can not care.



But then I remember they feel dissociated from it. They feel their life of taking the kids to school and running to the grocery store and to the community pool is separate from the bad things we hear on the news. When they throw garbage out it disappears once the truck picks it up. When they pump gas it just comes right out of that pump there. We turn the tap and water comes out but it's gross so we buy bottles instead. We never worry about food because the shelves are always full of it. We just buy more.



That isolation is on purpose so we don't rebel against the system. We just need to shut the fuck up and keep making and spending money. NOTHING else matters, we are different than those other 7 Billion (with a capital B) people.

Amber - posted on 06/23/2011

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It also caused millions of infant girls to be murdered at birth because boys were more desirable.
Now, there is a shortage of girls, which has caused girls to be kidnapped and forced into marriage (a marriage which is sometimes similar to slavery than marriage).

In my eyes, that is NOT working.

Veronica - posted on 06/23/2011

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Im not a murderer, and im not screwing with my very healthy body - just to satisfy others idea of population control. I DO understand the possibility of famine, shortages, etc. etc. Im very well aware of these things. I dont have sex with my husband, decide to get pregnant, while thinking to myself, "hmm, who can i piss off this time? i wonder how many more children i need to have in order to starve another nation?" One way or another things will work out how they are supposed to. I dont have time to fret about the woulda coulda shoulda, didya, whyda, howda's -- my time is here and now - making sure my children are healthy, fed, well-rounded. I have enough to worry about whether i feed my kids correctly and healthy, if i have them in front of the tube too long, if im a good mother, if i pass the 'perfect mother test, yet'; all the laws, studies, statistics that fricken make you go psycho as a parent, wondering what the next thing is that is going to come out to tell us mothers what we are doing wrong or how we should be doing it, or what was once a good thing, is now abuse, poisen, fatal, stupid, idiotic, etc. Then i have enough worrying about being a wife - and making sure im as good at is as i can be, making sure my marriage is healthy, taking care of my husband, taking care of me, taking care of family, school, inlaws, friends, business, and other social things. Dont get me started with household chores and budgeting and meal planning!!
Its not that the world doesnt matter to me - its just that i have too much more to worry about than this world -- population issues -- sure -- lets find better ways than to take away peoples freedom and choices.

Johnny - posted on 06/23/2011

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It would be nice if people weren't either exceedingly self-absorbed, exceedingly ignorant, or exceedingly careless about conception and over population issues because I really hate to think that it could become necessary for governments to legislate these things. It has worked in the past although it isn't pleasant. But probably more pleasant than the famines, water shortages, and lack of energy sources that will come if we don't stop fucking without protection or sterilization. No amount of growing our own food or idiots killing themselves doing stupid tricks or gay marriage is going to save us if we pop out so many more people relying on the already strained resources of our planet.

Jenny - posted on 06/23/2011

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Permission to breed is going to be a necessity if we don't do it voluntarily pretty goddamn soon.



We're in 1st world countries on these boards, for the most part, so we don't see what is is really happening. We have the money to buy the goods so the rest of the cycle of our stuff is hidden from our view (the creation of it and where it goes when we are done with it).



Water comes out of our taps, we have enough food to throw some in the garbage and there is gas at the gas station. I believe it won't be until you can't get a burger at a drive thru that people will really take what we are doing to the planet seriously and start giving a shit. Some of them are so fucking pigheaded about it that they will never change their ways though or believe we can't possibly screw up god's creation.



Honestly, I'm at the point where I'd like to see large meteor take out an entire huge city so we understand our place in the universe. Humans are a plague on this planet.

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Desiree - posted on 06/23/2011

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Jenny how very true. Yesterday I was looking at some statsitics on race population, and came accross an interesting article just can't remember where i read it but anyway Basically it was showing that Asian are the biggest population, then Indians then Blacks. The Caucasian (white) is expected to breed itself out of existance in the 2 to 300 years because of our constant breeding into other groups. The Bi-Racial group is the next up coming population because of this. I found it interesting because I live in Africa and have noticed that African male does not like to produce out of there race and nor do many of the others, The European men love to have an African women on thier arm. Its just something I noticed as a point of interest.

Jenny - posted on 06/23/2011

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If we don't halt population growth with justice and compassion, it will be done for us by nature, brutally and without pity - and will leave a ravaged world.

Nobel Laureate Dr. Henry W. Kendall

Johnny - posted on 06/23/2011

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More people battling for less resources is never going to be the path to solving the world's problems. There already is a partial solution for worldly problems, limiting population growth.



I also don't see anyone here promoting abortion as a solution to this issue. That is just a red herring and an excuse to avoid the issue.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 06/23/2011

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Off to bed now, 2 am....still not recovered from "vacation". See you ladies tomorrow!

~♥Little Miss - posted on 06/23/2011

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One more thing Veronica, keep up the good work on reducing, reusing, and recycling!

~♥Little Miss - posted on 06/23/2011

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I think assuming you are going to eliminate the ONLY person that could fix our problems is a bit far fetched. If any of our Presidents were not born, there were plenty of others suitable to run out country....man oh man....I wish Gore was president. He would whip our polluting asses into shape!

Johnny - posted on 06/23/2011

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As I posted earlier:

Every minute on earth 264 people are born and 106 die. That is 158 new people per minute. It does not balance out when we get 83 million extra people on the earth each year. That is an additional 1.6 billion by the time your baby is 20.

Lost semen,miscarriage, ectopic pregnancy, abortion, etc. may reduce the imbalance but it certainly does not come even close to actually balancing out.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 06/23/2011

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I am personally not saying have abortions as a means to fix over population.....I just think people may need to step outside of their own little world, and see what in all honesty is happening. People are in denial about what is happening to our planet. So many people I know think the greenhouse effect is made up, or the hole in the ozone layer is made up by the government, or that our rainforests are not being destroyed by the hands of fast food restaurants. It is all denial.

Veronica - posted on 06/23/2011

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So if people stop having kids, or aborting kids - how do we know we arent killing the next generation that will have the solution to fixing worldy problems - without limiting the number of kids a couple can have???

Johnny - posted on 06/23/2011

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How we deal with our waste is important for the earth. But not consuming as much to begin with is the only real way to control and begin to reverse the problems humans have caused and to ensure that there are enough resources for everyone. The only way to acheive this without removing every modern convenience from our lives is to stop population growth. We do not have infinite resources and recycling does next to nothing to fix that problem.

Veronica - posted on 06/23/2011

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I didnt say, leave it up to our kids to fix it -- my husband and i are as green as we can possibly be - we reuse and recycle out of our butt -- we incorporate all these things with our kids. the only thing that isnt green for us, is the damn vehichle - its a gas hog - so that is why we make outings an event - if im going to a dr. appt. - then im also doing my grocery shopping, and other errands the same day, while im out and having to fire up the beast anyways. We use environmentally safe products from house, to car, to lawncare, etc. As for food - being that we are on a budget, i buy what is necessary to feed our family for the next week or two -- and i portion food for my kids that i know they will eat, so that there is none wasted, and if they happen to not be that hungry for any particular reason, its either reheated later for them, or my husband will finish it off. Clothes are hand me downs with everyone -- and when its no longer in need it goes to other family/friends in need of clothes - or the donation centers -- if it rips or gets stained - its used for the rag pile for cleaning or my hubby's workshop. We practice energy savings too - with appliances, light bulbs, airing the laundry out to dry on the line, and turning off and unplugging unused items (and lights when its daytime out). So -- I think we are doing a good enough job practicing this ourselves - and instilling it into our children. We certainly are not leaving it in their hands to take on the responsibility, while we sit on our ass.

As for the conception earlier --- even though it seems like whoops there it is - im pregnant - the journey is much more complicated - and doesnt always happen - or survives when it does. How many miscarriages/ectopic pregnancies occur a day/month/year??? You would think that in itself would lead towards a balance too. And how many people in this world are sterile, not able to have children. How much do they contribute to the balance??
I guess i will have to look those up myself, lol.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 06/23/2011

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That is to bad Sherri. I know where my in laws are, the town charges 35 dollars to have them recycle, so they won't. I don't really agree with having to pay, but I would pay just to be able to do it....and money is tight. I really despise that towns don't make it easier, it really should be policy everywhere....but that is difficult when you have to take your own trash to the dump.

Sherri - posted on 06/23/2011

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I think that towns/cities that make it easier to recycle get the majority to recycle. We don't have trash pick up here and really no recycling either. Hence I would bet a very small percentage recycles a shame really.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 06/23/2011

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Every person that says "I am not gonna recycle, it doesn't make a difference" do you have any idea how many people actually say and think this?????? Put them all together and have them start recycling, it would make a HUGE impact on the planet. Every individual helps when trying to take care of mother earth....if you don't think so.....oh boy. Just recycle your shit for one month....and see how much goes in the trash can that can be reused.....just 1 month. Let it pile up in the garage....separate paper, metal, put glass and plastic together. Especially you larger families....your stomachs will turn, I guarantee it.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 06/23/2011

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I forgot to say, I see your point, but I think it is awfully dismissive....

~♥Little Miss - posted on 06/23/2011

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Ok, Veronica, I see your point about being to busy with other daily life things to worry about overpopulation....but what really got to me was "leave it up to our children to fix things" attitude. How are they going to know to recycle, reduce and reuse...not to overpopulate our planet and to try to take care of it if they are not led by example? Secondly, how are they suppose to fix overpopulation when it gets to the extreme? Clock tower shootings perhaps? I do think it is everyones responsiblilty to take care of our earth, and to seriously consider our carbon footprints and how it WILL effect our kids, grand kids, and great grand children. Daily we are killing this planet. Who do we blame when our KIDS cannot fix it like you suggest?

Johnny - posted on 06/23/2011

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Yep, they fail. My cousin was post-tubal. Big surprise. But at least an effort is being made to be responsible. I am in no way advocating any sort of laws or government restrictions. I just want people to really think hard about the issues, do some real research and to stop being so freaking "me me me" about bringing life into the world. I know that sometimes the best intentions don't work out and there is no reason to be unhappy about it.

Lori - posted on 06/23/2011

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Johnny, my third bio child was post vasectomy. Come to find out the chance of having a child post vasectomy even when you follow doctor's orders to a t are way higher than they lead you to believe. They do work, but they can also fail. We wouldn't trade our little guy for the world and are very happy he is here. In my mind, he was obviously meant to be here.

Lori - posted on 06/23/2011

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I don't think people should be told how many children they can have. I do think welfare should be better regulated, I feel like women are being rewarded for having children they can't afford. I think there should be more support and less judgment for women who give up their children for adoption, so that women who are overwhelmed could give up their child(ren)... That being said, I do have three biological children and one adopted child. Adoption is HARD and the process itself is not the hardest part. We are at 3 months home with our five year old daughter and it's not been easy. I think eventually everything will be great, but it's no where as easy as adding a newborn was. That's not to say I am not still a big adoption advocate, because I am. It's just tough sometimes and maybe not for everyone. ;)

Lori

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First of all let me say that I too wanted a large family at one point. That is no longer a possibility for my family...that was taken care of last week. ;)

However, I do have to wonder, when does the good of the world as a whole trump individual rights and vice versa?

Johnny - posted on 06/23/2011

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Yes Veronica, I am quite aware of the process of conception. It is amazing. I'm not quite sure how that is supposed to help on this issue though.

Sherri - posted on 06/23/2011

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Well Johnny I guess we are at an impasse. So I am going to bow out as we are both very passionate in our views on this one.

Veronica - posted on 06/23/2011

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We can educate our children about sex - abstinance, birth control methods, abortion, sterilization -- but i certainly am not going to tell them how many children they can or cant have -- that is there decision - and going back again - the Lord's will. conception is more complicated than a sperm meeting/fertilizing an egg -- so getting pregnant isnt as easy at it seems -- research it once - the journey of the sperm to fertilization - quite amazing really....

Johnny - posted on 06/23/2011

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Yes, absolutely do all those things. They will slow down the coming freight train a bit. I think they are very important. But they are not even going to be a drop in the bucket.

Sherri - posted on 06/23/2011

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Exactly Veronica lets worry about the pollution and the harvesting of all our trees for vanity items. Lets worry about waste way before we need to worry about over population.

Veronica - posted on 06/23/2011

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Thats why we educate our children, for the future - how to care for our planet, etc. Which, as far as I see - the kids of last generation are more world conscious than we were. recycling, planting trees, environmentally cautious, reusing, etc. I dont think its about population control - its education - regardless if you have one child or 10.

Johnny - posted on 06/23/2011

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Every minute on earth 264 people are born and 106 die. That is 158 new people per minute. It does not balance out when we get 83 million extra people on the earth each year. That is an additional 1.6 billion by the time your baby is 20. But don't let that worry you.

Sherri - posted on 06/23/2011

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Having one or four children isn't going to improve our world for the next generation in my opinion. My grandmother was one of 13 children. However, she only had two children and then my parents only went on to have two children. So I see numbers coming way down. Heck my sister only has one, I have 3 balances itself out. Trust me I don't think overpopulation is half our problem. Their are so many other things to worry about first.

Johnny - posted on 06/23/2011

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I do not use birth control nor have I or will I use abortion. We use NFP and withdrawal with great caution. When we are ready a vasectomy.

Johnny - posted on 06/23/2011

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Of course, a lot of that could be avoided by choosing to find a way to have fewer children ;-P It does not only require a choice between murder and messing up one's body. I guess I just see improving our world for the next generation as an important part of being a good parent. I am not actually advocating government involvement at all,just personal responsibility.

Veronica - posted on 06/23/2011

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I wouldnt take birth control anything - my sisters, aunts, and cousins - along with my great aunts, 2nd cousins, etc. on my mothers side - have all had shitty outcomes from the pill, IUDs, etc. four or five of them have had hysterectomies; ovarian cysts, endometriosis, fibroids, and other complications have all occurred by them using it. Ive never been on any birth control - Im one of the only ones in the family that has never had any uterine/ovarian problems, and id like to keep it that way. Religion or not.

Johnny - posted on 06/23/2011

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You are right Heather, no one actually gives a shit and that is exactly what is going to do us in. Like i said in my first post its ignorance, self-absorbtion, and lack of birth control. Most of that shity you can blame religion for.

Sherri - posted on 06/23/2011

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Sorry Johnny I know it is something you are passionate about it. I happen to be equally as passionate that you should be able to have as many children as you want, that is your right as a human being.

Lady Heather - posted on 06/23/2011

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I kind of think it is funny that any of us with kids worry THAT much about it, because really if we really cared we wouldn't have had any bio kids at all. That's how I know I obviously don't care as much as I think I should. I don't care enough to not have this baby in the fall. We all have this vision of the ideal, but none of us was really willing to make the sacrifice. That's probably why humans are fucked no matter what.

Veronica - posted on 06/23/2011

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This topic again? LOL Yea - the government has enough control of our lives as it is already - let's just give them more. I agree with a few others on this post - not everyone is having large families - you see more people with one/two or three kids - at the most four --- you hardly see large families anymore. 7 to 8 children isn't horrible either - people used to have 11 to 20 children back in the day - so the numbers have gone down considerably.
I don't let myself get caught up in the worldly stuff -- my job is to raise my children, teach them how to lead a good life, the Lord provides us our food/clothing - whether its through keeping my husband at a job, or help from others -- I am a mother of 6 children, and am due in two month with my 7th -- will I stop here? Im not sure - it def. wont be a decision that i will base on the world -- it will be based on what my husband and I feel, and what we see fit - more importantly, if the Lord choses to bless us with another gift.

Government can shove it up its butt; people in this world need to start taking care of stuff and quit making those who are good parents, suffer for their shit.

im off course here... but anyways - hope you got the point

Johnny - posted on 06/23/2011

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The problem is that it does not "balance itself out." Our population is increasing extremely fast despite lower ferility rates in the third world. But many people are just happy to make lots of babies with little regard for how things will be when those babies grow up.

Johnny - posted on 06/23/2011

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It is estimated that the one child policy prevented 400 million births. It is nasty but it can't be said that it didn't work.

Sherri - posted on 06/23/2011

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See I think people should be able to have as many children as they want. Some families choose to only have one. Some choose to have more. In the end I feel it balances itself out. I would have been devastated if I had been informed I could only have 1 or 2 children. I was truly believe I was put on this earth to be one thing a mom. Nobody should be able to tell another human being how many children is the right number for them.

Lady Heather - posted on 06/23/2011

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Yeah, I want to adopt anyways but I have a feeling I'm going to be put off by the medical requirements for a lot of places. Some countries won't let anyone with any sort of problem adopt. So epilepsy = problem. I'm not as bothered with the cost, but I'm sure that puts off a lot of people. It's just so easy to have your own (barring any fertility issues).

Stifler's - posted on 06/23/2011

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I agree with that there, adoption should be much cheaper and take a lot less time.

Amber - posted on 06/23/2011

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Ohh yes, because the One Child per family law works SOOOO well in China :)

I can agree that it might be better for the planet. I can even agree that the majority of people should choose to limit there family size to some degree or choose to adopt. But I just don't think that the government has the right to come in and tell me what I can do with my lady parts :)

I think if they would make the adoption process cheaper, many more people would choose that as an option in creating a large family. But as it is, they make it difficult and expensive..which turns people away.

[deleted account]

I am not for the government regulating family size in the least. I think the government controls too much as it is. Like I said in the other thread, I don't believe it would be necessary if people could chose to stop reproducing, with out having to abstain. I am 22 and my second child is due in August (concieved on birth control). I wanted to get my tubes tied but my doctor refuses. He says I must have 3 living children or be at least 25 years old before he will consider it. Once you are 21, aren't you considered an adult? And aren't adults in this country supposed to make their own decisions? I mean, especially if its that adults own body? If we are so worried about over population, why do most states have regulations on sterilization?
And many will argue that population control is already being practiced. What with the fluoridated water, gmo's, vaccines, toxins in the air, etc. Heck even the 599 additives in tobacco that form the cigarettes the vast majority smokes.

Katherine - posted on 06/23/2011

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We don't live in China, but I think it's a possibility....especially people who have like 8 kids. But they say they need more kids for jobs in engineering and such. So with that said I just don't know what I'm trying to relay. LMAO.

Stifler's - posted on 06/23/2011

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No but people should be sensible and not have kids if they can't look after them.

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I agree with heather, Let the stupid people do stupid things and kill them self. Thats natural selection isn't it.....

[deleted account]

I'm not for the government telling parents how many they can produce. It's not led to good outcomes when it's been done. However, I think a TON of education is needed. People don't think about the consequences, they just think how nice it is to have a large family. Something like this should be taught in high school...along with a parenting class and a financial class...so much more relevant to the general population than calculus (which I took and passed by the skin of my teeth...homework was bonus).

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