Religion

Iridescent - posted on 10/08/2011 ( 41 moms have responded )

4,519

272

1080

"God wants spiritual fruits, not religious nuts"

I saw this today, and was wondering where do you draw the line between the two?

MOST HELPFUL POSTS

Jennifer - posted on 10/09/2011

240

8

14

The line that I draw places a lot of people in the nuts category. Too many people are busy telling people they are going to hell because of ________, (you fill in the blank). As far as I am concerned, that makes them nuts because NO one has been led to know God by fear. God IS love and anytime we do anything in the name of God, it should be done with love. There is nothing loving about the concept of hell as most religions understand it. Jesus never led anyone to God by telling them they were going to hell. Jesus led by example. He led people to God with his loving attitude and care for even the lowliest of the low. Even Jesus sacrifice so we would be allowed into eternal life was done with love. It is the purest love there is. He gave up His life, so that we could have the gift of eternal life. It is a gift that we can choose to accept. Destruction is what we all deserve because we are ALL guilty of something. The only thing that will ever produce spiritual fruit is Love.

[deleted account]

I was going to write at first that its' difficult for me, the atheist, to tel the difference but then I realized that was wrong. I respect many people who are theists. First and foremost, my mother. She's an Episcopalian (although due to Church politics, she may go over the Unitarians). Her faith is deep and sincere. She admits it has no evidence beyond her faith - which I have no problem with. She never pushes me to come back to the fold although I have no doubt she privately prays for it. Another person is a lady from the American Idol forum where I used to hang out. Her screenname was Narnia and she is a VERY devout Catholic. We became the best of online buddies. We disagreed - a lot! However she was respectful to me and I to her. Teresa on these boards has earned my sincere respect.
There are many other examples but I have to say they are a minority.

I guess for me the difference is the person who believes and yet understands that faith is private and most importantly, they show their faith by living it, not screaming it.

Minnie - posted on 10/08/2011

7,076

9

788

Galatians 5:22-23

English Standard Version (ESV)

22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.


It's so often that people who are religious nuts and claim to have the fruits of the spirit, don't. They usually are sorely lacking in the above department.

The IFB= a whole passle of religious nuts.

Tracey - posted on 10/09/2011

236

440

0

It's what Becky said: living out your faith by demonstrating those fruits of the Spirit of love, compassion, patience, gentleness, etc. I think one of the biggest hurdles that a lot of Christians (just talking to Christians here) have to overcome, particularly in some denominations, is to understand that God is working with each person on an individual basis, and is working on different things with each person at any specific time.

So that means while God might be working with me on my temper and not yet on organization, which might be a worse problem, for another person He might be continually bringing their organization ability to their attention. So they look at me, disorganized, and think that I should be working on that, because that's what He's bringing to their attention continually. With spiritual maturity, if they *ever* get there, they'll understand that it's not just a bunch of rules to be followed.

Unfortunately, many denominations stress the rules over the relationship, and that prevents a great many people from growing into that understanding. It is so much easier to truly love people when we understand our own shortcomings and imperfections.

It's not that those rules aren't a good thing, because they are (no one thinks murder is a good idea, except psychopaths). But the relationship is the thing, and that's what brings the fruits, just as the growth of a tree eventually produces fruits. This is why I tell people I am not "religious", although I'm at church every Sunday and pray continually. It is not a bunch of rituals and rules to me. I have a relationship, and I know people who also have relationships, and it's so cool to see how they blossom because of it.

I sure hope this is not seen as "pushing my faith" on people. I would say that if someone just mentions it, it's not pushing. Offering is not the same as pushing. If the boyfriend had insisted that his girlfriend take the Bible or else, that's pushing. If the waiter at an art gallery opening offers me whatever's on the tray he's carrying, it's not the same as stuffing it into my mouth!

41 Comments

View replies by

[deleted account]

I find that once they realize who they're dealing with, they can't wait to get away. I had them call me once and started asking questions like, "how important is the Bible in your daily life?"

"None"

He recovered quickly but when he realized I was not going to allow him to mail me any info without discussing it first, he hung up on me. I was the soul of courtesy but gee, try to get them to talk about their faith and bang, they bolt.

Becky - posted on 10/10/2011

2,892

44

93

LOL Jen. When I was breastfeeding, I always said that if the Mormons or JW's came to my door, I was just going to greet them with a baby hanging off my boob. Or maybe just with my boobs hanging out, since that's how I go around the house half the day when I have a newborn anyway! I bet they wouldn't be back! :) Although I don't mind the Mormons so much. I didn't want to talk to them once, so they shoveled my snow for me. Anything that gets me out of shoveling snow is good in my books! :)

Jennifer - posted on 10/09/2011

240

8

14

Oh and for the people who tell homosexuals they are going to hell.... they obviously do not understand the few times in the Bible that same gender sex is mentioned nor do they understand that one can be a virgin and still be a homosexual. (From understanding the core of the same gender passages... I personally believe that God is permissive of gay unions) Anyway, that is for another post. LOL Just had to add that because someone mentioned a homosexual sermon and I am VERY against those because most people are just regurgitating what their pastors tell them rather than actually digging and understanding it from the original texts.

Stifler's - posted on 10/09/2011

15,141

154

604

Other religions do it much more subtley like by having St Vincents charity shops, and salvation army helping the homeless and abused.

Stifler's - posted on 10/09/2011

15,141

154

604

Going into the world and preaching the gospel is in all bibles. Jehovas' witnesses just take it much more literally with the door to door harassment stuff.

Iridescent - posted on 10/09/2011

4,519

272

1080

Jehovah's Witnesses believe that unless they actively try to convert the "ignorant", they aren't fulfilling their part for their religion. Catch 22. It allows them to be pushy with it and seem normal! The only ways to get rid of them permanently - 1) No Solicitation notices on your door. If they come anyway, get their information (ex: first name, license plate, make and model of car) and press charges. 2) request to be listed as "irate" on their forms. It's the same type as for telemarketing. Sometimes people will make a mistake and come back regardless, and sometimes they won't listen to you if you simply request it. In those cases, you need to actually become irate and make it quite clear they are not welcome.

Johnny - posted on 10/09/2011

8,686

26

322

LOL @ Corinne. I view the JW's coming to my door as them offering me an opportunity to convert them to agnosticism ;-P

@ Tracey, perhaps it is just me, but I can not see how talking about the importance of a personal journey of growth, maturity and development of one's own beliefs and "soul" can in any way ever be construed as pushing a faith. I do not believe in a god, but even I am on that journey. I happen to have a different understanding of why I am on the path, but we're all still struggling to find our footing.

I think it is those who are sure they are always headed in the right direction and that others must follow in their exact footsteps that cause the most consternation, amongst both believers and non-believers.

Rosie - posted on 10/09/2011

8,657

30

321

a religious nut to me is someone who is more worried about what others are doing, than what they themselves are doing to others, or themselves. they take the bible and it's words literally- only when it suits their agenda.
i do tend to think that people who are religious in general are nutty for believing in god. but, i'm sure they think i'm nutty for not believing too. :)

Corinne - posted on 10/09/2011

1,288

14

121

I don't want to offend any Jehovah's Witnesses out there, but why do they do door-to-door canvassing? I'm sick to death of being pestered by them! My husband has had some very lively debates on our door step recently and has on occassion slammed the door in their faces while muttering about ignorance. This summer I was shocked to see them bringing children (about 7yrs old) on their rounds, in the hope that less people would be rude to them. My husband? He sat on the door step and looked into the little boys eyes and said 'Let me tell you about Christmas...' never seen them move so fast! It's okay to preach to me on my own door step but not for us to do the same? Hmmmm....

Gina - posted on 10/09/2011

388

6

12

@Jen,
they show their faith by living it, not screaming it.
I love that Jen,that's what I feel is important to me . My personal relationship with God is private. I don't go preaching to anyone or push my views across.
The religious nuts drive me crazy,'If you were really religious you will help save the poor souls who aren't'
Really? maybe they'll like 'hell'! I'll be there with cold beer because I'm not doing the religious thing the right way!

Kylie - posted on 10/09/2011

2,391

81

190

I'm not sure there is a line. All religion is nuts. I wish there was no religion and i would happily forfeit the discussion topic :p. The world would be a more peaceful place and all that energy and time wouldn't have been wasted on rules, fairy tales, persecution and division. Silly humans.

Becky - posted on 10/08/2011

2,892

44

93

Well, that would just make life boring! Guess it's good that we have some religious nuts out there to give us good discussion topics! :)

Johnny - posted on 10/08/2011

8,686

26

322

Yes, but if people actually did that all the time Becky, there would hardly be any religious debates on COM ;-P

Becky - posted on 10/08/2011

2,892

44

93

God wants people who live out their faith, not just spout off about it. And no, by "live out" I don't mean picket abortion clinics and bash gays! I mean demonstrate love, compassion, and the fruits of the Spirit that Lisa quoted in her post.

Minnie - posted on 10/08/2011

7,076

9

788

I agree, that is a religious nut. I can't talk to my mother about health, nutrition and biology, because my beliefs are science and evolution-based. If she knew I believe in evolution (lol I can't believe I'm really saying 'believe') she would flip. So I have to dance around it, despite her being an RN.

Johnny - posted on 10/08/2011

8,686

26

322

April, to me *that* is what qualifies as religious nut. We need to be focused on our own journey, not the one others are taking. If you can't be yourself in front of someone because of their beliefs, then they are spending too much time on the religion and not enough on the spirit.

April - posted on 10/08/2011

3,420

16

263

i'm taking my son to church tomorrow for the first time in probably a year. he has only been a to church maybe 3 times in his whole life. it is really important to my father in law who said, " Please may I take him up for communion? It will protect him and you. " Just looking in his eyes when he said that, I felt compelled to say yes. He would have a heart attack if he knew I am actually agnostic and most likely won't be sending my son to Sunday school at his church. (i may once in a while so that he can have information on what Christians believe and maybe one day decide for himself what he believes). The fact that I can't even talk to him about my views, about being agnostic...i feel that's crossing a line too. Essentially, I cannot be myself around him and my MIL.

[deleted account]

A religious nut would be like the lady from my dad's church who basically told me I'm condemning my kids to hell cuz I take them to church on Sunday instead of Saturday....

Yeah, because a relationship w/ Jesus Christ is only good if you go to church on Saturday's..... @@

April - posted on 10/08/2011

3,420

16

263

Amy...in order to get married in my husband's church, I had to formally convert to his religion. A year later, we were having our son baptized there and we had to pick godparents. The godfather we picked had never been baptized and was required to be. The priest baptized him on the same day as my son...in a kiddie pool. Now, our friend is a BIG guy. He is around 300 pounds and he's 6 foot 2. He looked funny, lol! It was nice of him to go through that for our son,, although I consider being forced to get baptized crossing the line. Making me convert was also crossing the line.

Minnie - posted on 10/08/2011

7,076

9

788

Oh, sorry, Sara!



In my experience, 'religious nuts' tend to add things to those verses on the fruits of the spirit. They sort of gloss over them and focus on:



church attendance frequency, tithe amount, outward appearance, prayer closet time, bible reading time, submission (wife only, mind you), discipline in the home, etc.



And it is those things that are tacked on that they see as one's outward signs of a relationship with God. Often it is quoted "So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead" but they are mistaken as to what these works are. The fruit of the spirit is not being as religious as possible but displaying those fruits of the spirit.

Iridescent - posted on 10/08/2011

4,519

272

1080

I really loved how the priest of my husband's church was so accepting, especially for that religion! We were not married yet 2.5 years ago and everyone kept saying we wouldn't be allowed to get married in the church because I don't have a religion, haven't taken their classes, we hadn't done the marital classes, etc. It was a fear, because I wanted to be able to respect my husband's family and be married in the church, even though it didn't matter for me personally.

The priest understood that. He confirmed that I had been baptized at some point in my life (I got a copy of the paperwork), and even though it was a different religion and I hadn't been part of that church from the age of 7, he didn't push about it. Our 3 children that were unbaptized at the time, he was fine with. The fact that we had a mixed family of 5 kids prior to getting married was okay with him. Skipping the classes was also fine, because he saw that we were honestly doing fine with each other, and we'd had such a long history together already that the classes really wouldn't have made a difference. He respected my feelings, and also my husband's family's, and that meant more to all of us than we can express. The people that were pushing us for all kinds of reasons in all kinds of directions, that didn't help anything.

[deleted account]

Ah, Lisa you beat me to it! Evidence of a relationship with God are the fruit in those verses.

JuLeah - posted on 10/08/2011

3,133

38

694

:) Cute - where do I draw the line, as in 'what's a nut'?

A nut is a person who thinks all people should be just one way, think just one way, act just one way. A nut is a person who thinks they have answers for everyone else. A nut is a person who thinks that their way is not just the best way, but the only way to live.

Nuts have their place, but it hurts to get hit in the head with them

I like fruit - messy, but sweet - makes great wine, which often leads to more fruits ....

April - posted on 10/08/2011

3,420

16

263

I would have loved to share this quote with my ex boyfriend while we were dating. HE was a religious nut. He came over one day and we were chatting just about nonsense, about life. I forget what made him do it, but he took a mini bible out of his pocket and said, "Here! You need this more than I do." **I think it is okay to pray for others, attend church, donate to charity but I don't think it's okay to force bibles on others, I don't think it is okay to preach that homosexuality is sin, and i def disagree with going door to door. My ex crossed over the line with his mini bible. My FIL's church crossed the line when Father gave a sermon about homosexuality being evil. Those boys that come to my neighborhood all dressed up to go door to door are crossing the line. I also personally feel that people should keep their religions to themselves. Kind of like a separation between church and state type of thing

Johnny - posted on 10/08/2011

8,686

26

322

Is this really just about not being overly dogmatic and proselytizing? Or is it more a suggestion that faith is a journey of spiritual self-discovery, growth and connection. Not the opportunity for people or groups to push certain political or moral agendas.

Stifler's - posted on 10/08/2011

15,141

154

604

This says to me that god wants you to treat others as you wish to be treated and all the other good things not go around quoting the old testament about an eye for an eye and cutting off hands for stealing.

Katherine - posted on 10/08/2011

65,420

232

5195

Right, the pushing really turns me off. What denomination was it?

Iridescent - posted on 10/08/2011

4,519

272

1080

For me, I considered it crossing the line when our "church" expected us to go door to door every week at least once, and have church three times per week, not allow association with people of different religions... I honestly feel that was a cult and was glad to get away from it.

I also don't care for people who are so certain they can "save" me that they need to push and push, vs just discuss it and let it go.

Katherine - posted on 10/08/2011

65,420

232

5195

Oh good, not on the Welcome page lol.

I think it's ok to have a viewpoint but not to proselytize in a hard core way like some people do.

I have seen some posts that really irk me.

Join Circle of Moms

Sign up for Circle of Moms and be a part of this community! Membership is just one click away.

Join Circle of Moms