Repeal DADT or not?

Dana - posted on 09/22/2010 ( 109 moms have responded )

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Do you feel gays have any place in the military, let alone be allowed to "come out"?

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Jodi - posted on 09/28/2010

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"You ladies are seriously missing my point. You don't have to lie about your lifestyle at all. You just cannot bring it up in conversation-- Hence the term 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'. If they don't ask, you don't tell them= NOT a lie."

Interesting logic Christina. If I were to apply this logic to other situations, would you still consider it not to be a lie?

Husband has an affair. Doesn't tell wife because she never asked = Not a lie.

You don't think that would by lying by omission? It certainly is LIVING a lie.

Krista - posted on 09/28/2010

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They don't spread it around to people who have no business hearing about their sexual encounters.



Um, Christina, why do you assume that gay people would be talking about their sexual encounters? When your husband is away, and when talking to his coworkers, he makes a casual mention of his wife, do you think he's talking about what you get up to in the sack?



Gay people are just that -- they're PEOPLE. Suzanne's wife makes a great lasagna. Edward's boyfriend went to Paris once and really liked that new hotel down by the Seine. Jim's husband always forgets to rinse out the recycling too. Marie keeps a picture of her girlfriend in her wallet and looks at it every night before she goes to sleep.



When people work together, especially if they are spending all day and evening together, it is impossible to avoid getting to know each other and sometimes chatting about their home lives. I know my coworkers' spouses names, their kids' names, that some of them have cottages. That's just the kind of stuff that DOES come up in conversation.



I dare you to go for one week without mentioning your husband's name, the word "husband" or using the gender-specific pronoun when making any mention of your spouse, no matter how brief.



It's not easy.



Now imagine if you could lose your job if you slip up.



Do you really think the military can afford to lose any more soldiers?

Jenny - posted on 09/27/2010

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Or how about we just stop pandering to bigots. How about we say "You don't want to fight alongside gay people, tough shit, this is a free country".

Charlie - posted on 09/22/2010

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The whole DADT policy perpetuates the thought that being gay is wrong and should be hidden , i would be seriously embarrassed if this was my countries policy .

Mary - posted on 09/29/2010

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The problem with your argument, Christina, is that there will never be a "good" time, and who knows WHEN we will be completely at peace with the rest of the world. I also disagree with your assertation that there are "...more important things going on..." Bottom line, you don't view this issue as "important" simply because it does not directly impact YOU, as the heterosexual spouse of a soldier. Your statement merely reflects that you are a bit self-absorbed, since you fail to see just how important it is to many, many others. The fact that it isn't a big deal to YOU, does not negate it's value and impact on OTHERS.

If the US seriously wants others in the world to respect them as an advocate of human rights, justice and equality, it needs to stop discriminating against ALL of it's citizens, including it's soldiers. Otherwise, it's message is pretty much meaningless and hypocritical.

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Dana - posted on 09/29/2010

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Christina, you can't base the whole US Military on what you've learned in your small circle of naivety.

[deleted account]

"It is apparent that you do not know gay soldiers in the US. I do know that many WILL come out of the closet if this policy is repealed, causing chaos that does not need to take place at this time"

It's good to know you think so highly of the people that work with your husband, and the US army in general, so you think many of them are bigotted arseholes who will cause choas in warzones just because one of their unit comes out as gay. Even though you have stated several times that many gay people serve with your hubby, so evidently most people already know who is and who isn't gay and there isn't choas in the army now is there? So repealing DADT will only ensure that the people who are gay are given the same basic rights as the hetero soldiers.

Iris - posted on 09/29/2010

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"@Mary.. I really fail to see how I am being 'self-absorbed' when I'M the one who is trying to see what could happen to the military as a WHOLE if they did this NOW. Tell me, how is THAT being self-absorbed? "

Then you must not have high opinion of our military, or you are just pushing your personal opinion.

I fail to see how letting gays serve openly is going to affect the military in a negative way. You yourself have pointed out that there are many gays working with your husband. Soldiers already know who is gay and who is not (in most cases) serving next to them. So how is it going to affect them if it doesn't already?

Like Kati said, we are fighting for freedom. How can we take away basic freedom from some of our own soldiers?

Rosie - posted on 09/29/2010

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if a gay man is good enough to potentially be in a situation where he could save your husbands life, i don't understand how you all STILL feel that gays shouldn't be allowed to be who they are in front of him. it's completely ass backwards. good enough to save your life and fight for your freedom, but FUCK his freedom, huh? twisted warped BIGOTED logic.

Mary - posted on 09/29/2010

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Christina, you operate on the ASSumption that repealing DADT would immediately result in disharmony and disruption. It may, or may not. You seemed focused on only possible negative effects, when it is entirely possible that it could positively affect our military. As to any military who would actively refuse to serve along side another just because of their sexual preferences...well, those types of hate-filled bigots have no place repesenting this country, especially on foreign soil. If this is a way to flush out some nasty, judgemental assholes from the military, it's even more incentive to push through the repeal.

The arguments you make against ridding this country are no different than those made when the military started to integrate blacks. I am sure that there were those bigots in both WWII and Vietman who felt about blacks as some current assholes feel about gays. Should that have prevented the military from pushing forward with racial equality and integration? If they'd waited until the "right" time, chances are, someone like Colin Powell would not have been in the position he was in during the Persian Gulf War, and that in and of itself could have changed how things played out there.

No, there is no excuse or justification for hanging on to DADT, other than bigotry and hatred.

Krista - posted on 09/29/2010

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@Krista.. I said it once, I'll say it again. Why is this so important NOW, when for God knows how many years nobody has fought it??? Why NOW when we are in the middle of a great big war? This policy has been in effect since 1993!!! That's almost 20 years! If there was such a huge problem with it, why did it take so long for people to fight it?



It's important NOW because this is the first time since this policy was enacted that you folks have had an administration that was open to the idea of repealing it. They're pushing it while they still have the chance. What if the war in Afghanistan still isn't over by 2012 and Obama loses, and your next 10 presidents are social conservatives who support DADT?



It's important NOW because when it comes to Washington, change can take a damn long time. So they're pushing this now because this is the best chance they've had since the policy was enacted, and they don't know when this chance might come around again.

[deleted account]

Christina, you make it sound like the whole DADT was solely Clinton's idea. It wasn't. It was a compromise in order to allow homosexuals to serve in the military PERIOD. Up until that point, being gay and in the military was considered "incompatible with military service". Here's a small portion of an article that gives the basic facts of how all this came to be.
"The policy was introduced as a compromise measure in 1993 by then-President Bill Clinton who campaigned on the promise to allow all citizens to serve in the military regardless of sexual orientation.[12] At the time, per Reagan's Defense Directive 1332.14, it was military policy that "homosexuality is incompatible with military service" and persons who engaged in homosexual acts or stated that they are homosexual or bisexual were discharged.[12][13] The Uniform Code of Military Justice, passed by Congress in 1950 and signed by President Harry S Truman, established the policies and procedures for discharging homosexual service members.[14]

Congress overrode Clinton by including text in the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 1994 (passed in 1993) requiring the military to abide by regulations essentially identical to the 1982 absolute ban policy.[13] The Clinton Administration on December 21, 1993[15] issued Defense Directive 1304.26, which directed that military applicants were not to be asked about their sexual orientation.[13] This is the policy now known as "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"."
Full article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_ask,_don%27t_tell

And about your question of "why" it's important to do now? Just because this particular policy has been "only" in effect for almost 20 years, doesn't mean that the issue itself hasn't existed for many, many more years, dating back as far as at least 1778. Why NOT now? I don't see how us being in a war is going to make the repeal any worse than if we weren't at war. We'll ALWAYS be at war with someone. We could be at peace with the world (not likely to happen but for the sake of argument), and if DADT was repealed, the same jerks would still act the same way towards gays as they would at war. Makes no difference...at war...not at war....the homophobic jerks will always be there and I think pussy-footing around the feelings of intolerant, backward minded thinking assholes is....intolerable.

LaCi - posted on 09/29/2010

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I haven't read anything here, theres too much already.



Anyone who is physically capable of serving some role in the military should have the right to do so, and should be appreciated for doing so.



By repealing DADT one gives everyone the right to declare their sexuality, it does not mandate it. You can still be in the closet if you so choose, it's your right to disclose or not.



By not repealing DADT one is only defending the asshats who would get themselves in trouble by mistreating someone for simply being gay. It has nothing to do with the protection of gays, only the protection of the disgusting human beings who would abuse them. Those are the ones we should be getting rid of. So the whole idea I've been hearing of how forcing non-heterosexuals to pretend they are keeps them safe from jerkoffs who would judge them for it is nonsense.



Being in the military, in my opinion, means you need to have an open mind, you need to be accepting of the fact that there are many different cultures, many different types of people, and the last people we should be sending out are the pieces of shit full of hatred or fear of those who are different than they are.

C. - posted on 09/29/2010

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@Mary.. I really fail to see how I am being 'self-absorbed' when I'M the one who is trying to see what could happen to the military as a WHOLE if they did this NOW. Tell me, how is THAT being self-absorbed?



Also, I never said to wait until we were at peace with everyone in the world-- B/c that probably will never happen all at the same time. I just don't see why NOW, during one of the biggest wars in years, people have to fight it? They waited all this time since the policy came to be, why not wait until this war at least subsides?



And no, I don't view it as important at this time b/c we are AT WAR- not b/c it doesn't directly affect me. I happen to have many close friends who are gay. To me, getting soldiers home and safe is more important right now than a policy that people have waited so long to fight.



@Jodi.. No, if you would have read some of the posts before mine, and then read my response, you would have seen that I was addressing several posts *GASP* that weren't by YOU. Thank you.



@Krista.. I said it once, I'll say it again. Why is this so important NOW, when for God knows how many years nobody has fought it??? Why NOW when we are in the middle of a great big war? This policy has been in effect since 1993!!! That's almost 20 years! If there was such a huge problem with it, why did it take so long for people to fight it?



@Cathy.. It is apparent that you do not know gay soldiers in the US. I do know that many WILL come out of the closet if this policy is repealed, causing chaos that does not need to take place at this time. You would be surprised just how many soldiers will come out when the policy is repealed, just b/c they legally won't be able to get kicked out for it. And for many, it will cause problems.



SN: I do think it's funny how so many people loved Clinton, but then hate this awful thing that passed while he was in office.. I guess he wasn't as good as people thought, or did they forget he was president at the time?

Krista - posted on 09/29/2010

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Beautifully said, Mary. Why is it that those who are discriminated against are always told to be good boys and girls and wait their turn? A turn which, without people PUSHING it, would never, ever happen?

Jodi - posted on 09/29/2010

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"Jodi, I am seriously sick of your comments right now. "



I asked one very legitimate question, and made one comment......that's not such a lot of comments really. Interesting, too, that I am the only one who disagreed with you that you chose to address.

C. - posted on 09/29/2010

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Jodi, I am seriously sick of your comments right now. I DON'T have the patience for you at all at the moment, so please refrain from posting directly to me. I have too much going on right now to read some post from you talking about how I avoid something. I'm not avoiding anything. I've explained my opinion and it's just not good enough for you. Tough noogies.



Look, there are so many things going on in the military right now that a lot of you don't even realize. Going to war is more important than repealing a policy that has been in effect for years and years.



If they repeal NOW, WHILE at war, that can throw everything off. Then they'll have to worry about the homophobes who refuse to be a battle buddy to a gay/lesbian soldier just b/c they're 'afraid' of them. Ridiculous, yes, but you know what? It's going to happen at some point. All I'm saying is NOW is not the time. When we aren't at war, they can get on with it. But when there is more important things going on, like focusing on fighting so there are less casualties, it is NOT the time to repeal this old policy. If they wanted it done so bad, why didn't they fight harder many, many years ago when the policy was first introduced?? Why didn't they try to fight it when we WEREN'T in the middle of a huge war??

Charlie - posted on 09/28/2010

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I thought this was a debate not a throw down .

I dont see any shit talk just people debating opposing views .

Jodi - posted on 09/28/2010

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Nothing like avoiding answering the questions, huh Christina? I wish I'd put money on that, because it is one of the responses I'd expect from you :)

C. - posted on 09/28/2010

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You know, you all can talk your shit about my stance.. That's fine. But I'm having no part in it. I've had enough of this thread. Just b/c I don't agree with the majority, you are all jumping down my throat. I DON'T think it's necessary right now, and that's that. So if you'll excuse me, I'll get back to being a mom to my sick little boy who had runs bubbling out of his butt this morning.

Jenny - posted on 09/28/2010

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I just can't believe that while they are willing to risk their lives for their country, some can't be bothered to allow them love. If you fall under that catagory, leave the country immediately and crawl under a rock, you do not deserve freedom. I mean, it is really incomprehensible that one could be so cold hearted to these brave people.



BTW I say love (and not something like being proud of their family) because I do not know of one person who has differing opinions on gay marriage and DADT.

Rosie - posted on 09/28/2010

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i just don't see how a gay man can't take out a picture of his husband and look at it longingly without living in fear that he will lose his job. a straight soldier can do that.
a gay soldier can't say how much he misses his boyfriend, a straight man can say how much he misses his girlfriend.
anybody who doesn't understand that this is blatant discrimination, and it needs to be stopped NOW, is in need of some major help. it boggles my mind.

[deleted account]

I was just talking generally not just in the military. And on that note I couldn't comment on what happens in the military lol! I can imagine that is what happens though.

Heather - posted on 09/28/2010

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Most of the time it IS the single soldiers talking about what they did last night in the bedroom! lol Nobody wants to hear about that...well, maybe other single soldiers not getting any do! It's not usually the married soldiers that have a problem with keeping their sex lives out of the office. It's the single ones.

[deleted account]

Heather the British army has religious ministers who are there for the troops who want it but regardless of that the religion isn't brought into how the army is run. There's nothing wrong with discussing ascpects of your sexuality, for example talking about your husband/wife. I could only see a problem if they were discussing what they'd done last night in the bedroom.

Heather - posted on 09/28/2010

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You make a great point Emma! In actuality, no one is supposed to discuss their sexuality in the workplace. It's a huge double standard because it's not enforced for hetero soldiers. You also made an interesting comment about the military not being a church. Did you know there's a whole branch of the military dedicated to religion? The military in America is still a VERY spiritual place, which may factor into the decision too.

Stifler's - posted on 09/28/2010

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this is getting crazy. gay people have every right to brag about their sexual encounters if straight people do. another thing is that everyone just assumes people are straight until they reveal that they are in fact, gay. so i think gays should be allowed to come out! good on them for being proud, it's the military not the church.

[deleted account]

Thanks for the info =] It's wierd how America is like one fo the richest nations yet they are so behind in social ways...

[deleted account]

Jennifer, the Uk allows homosexual soldiers to serve, I believe our policies were changed around 2000, but I may be wrong.

[deleted account]

I never knew this existed...does it exist in the British army too?? I'm assuming that under the discrimination laws we have here in the UK that doesn't happen in our army but I don't know much about the army lol!

[deleted account]

"But right now, you CANNOT force homophobes into uncomfortable situations with their battle buddies just b/c someone got pissed about a stupid policy!!!"

Why should homophobes NOT be made to either deal with their issues or leave? I for one would not want intollerant arseholes fighting for my freedom, who knows WHAT they may do when in a warzone, as many people who demonstrate one prejudice also demonstrate others! I would rather the homophobes not represent MY country, and our defenses thank-you very much.

Seriously Christina WHAT kind of a defense is THAT for DADT to remain!

Krista - posted on 09/28/2010

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A straight soldier comes home from war and gets to be warmly greeted, kissed, hugged, public displays of affection flying left and right at the airport, IN UNIFORM, by his wife, girlfriend, whatever. People applaud and cry. If a gay soldier walks off a plane, home from the same war, but into the loving arms of his male partner and is greeted with a kiss and hug....he can be kicked out of the military

Exactly. And I think you'd have to be pretty cold-hearted to not find that really sad.

Dana - posted on 09/28/2010

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Unfortunately, Christina, I have read your posts. Remember you're the one who won't read anything or research anything before you speak.

[deleted account]

Quoting Cathy S. "Do straight members of the military have to keep quiet about their relationships? No discussing husbands or wives. If they do then it would be a fair demand. If not it's discrimination!"



THANK YOU! That's the point exactly! If DADT applied to the heterosexuals as well as the homosexuals then no problem. But it doesn't. Don't Ask. The military won't ask if you're gay. Don't Tell. Don't tell us if you are. How is that fair? They have families just like the rest of the soldiers. So if a gay soldier has a nice cook out with his partner while home on leave, why shouldn't he be able to tell stories that begin with "So my partner and I were at the park having a cook out last weekend and..."? The straight soldiers get to tell stories about their wives and kids and nobody blinks an eye. They also get to talk about the kinky sex they had (whether with a wife, girlfriend, or a hooker). Why can't homosexuals have all those same "priviledges"? A straight soldier comes home from war and gets to be warmly greeted, kissed, hugged, public displays of affection flying left and right at the airport, IN UNIFORM, by his wife, girlfriend, whatever. People applaud and cry. If a gay soldier walks off a plane, home from the same war, but into the loving arms of his male partner and is greeted with a kiss and hug....he can be kicked out of the military. How is that not discrimination?

Sara - posted on 09/28/2010

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"But right now, you CANNOT force homophobes into uncomfortable situations with their battle buddies just b/c someone got pissed about a stupid policy!!! NOW IS NOT THE TIME. Maybe later, perhaps.. But right now, OTHER things, MORE IMPORTANT things, need to take place first!"



If everyone had that attitude, we'd all have English accents, still have slavery and you wouldn't have the right to vote, my dear. There's never a "right time" for things to change, you just have to move forward knowing it's the right thing to do.

Rosie - posted on 09/28/2010

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christina seriously, sob stories? classy.
secondly, have you asked those in your husbands company whether they would want to just be able to say they are gay without fear of being kicked out of the military? and people don't need to hear about heterosexual peoples business either, but we don't keep clammoring to keep their sexuality under wraps. why do you automatically think that someone being openly gay means talking about their sexual encounters? your deluded view of gay men and women is completely ridiculous to say the least. this all comes down to bigotry plain and simple. they're different than you so hell, just close your eyes. it doesn't affect you so why change it, right? i'd like to know if this was women if you'd still be as close minded.

Jenny - posted on 09/28/2010

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"But right now, you CANNOT force homophobes into uncomfortable situations with their battle buddies just b/c someone got pissed about a stupid policy!!! NOW IS NOT THE TIME. Maybe later, perhaps.. But right now, OTHER things, MORE IMPORTANT things, need to take place first!"



Other important things like, um, fighting for freedom perhaps? And yes, you can force homophobes into uncomfortable situation with their battle buddies. You do it by repealing DADT. Oh wait, if you know all these gay soldiers, aren't they already fighting with them and don't they know their orientation as well if you do? Sounds to me like you don't support the same freedom for the gay soldiers that are fighting for yours, shame on you Christina!

C. - posted on 09/28/2010

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Oh so funny, Dana. No, neither of us are gay and if you'd read any of my post, you'd know why I said that. Practically half of my husband's Company is filled with gays and lesbians. They have been in for a while, are still in.. And why, you might ask? Hmm.. B/c they keep their business to themselves. They don't spread it around to people who have no business hearing about their sexual encounters.

Besides my husband's company, there are people in several Units that my friends are in that are gay that have been in for a long ass time. They haven't been kicked out b/c AGAIN, they don't tell their business to anyone that doesn't need to be hearing it.

@Jenny.. I have NEVER, EVER heard of something like that happening. I'm really starting to wonder where you get your information..

@Brittany.. And yes, they can protect our country just as well as a straight person. Nobody is denying that. But right now, you CANNOT force homophobes into uncomfortable situations with their battle buddies just b/c someone got pissed about a stupid policy!!! NOW IS NOT THE TIME. Maybe later, perhaps.. But right now, OTHER things, MORE IMPORTANT things, need to take place first!

Jenny - posted on 09/28/2010

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Hasn't there been cases of the miltary accessing private emails to fish out gay soldiers?

Dana - posted on 09/28/2010

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Oh please Christina, you've seen it with your own eyes? I suppose either you or your husband is gay then.

Petra - posted on 09/28/2010

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Oh, they're allowed to be in the military - as long as they remain closeted.

Brittany - posted on 09/28/2010

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OMG! This is suppose to be a free country. Why shouldnt people that are gay not have a place in the military? They can protect our country just as well as a straight person.....

C. - posted on 09/28/2010

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" You think being forced to lie about who you are"



You ladies are seriously missing my point. You don't have to lie about your lifestyle at all. You just cannot bring it up in conversation-- Hence the term 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'. If they don't ask, you don't tell them= NOT a lie. In fact, that's what MOST people are supposed to do, gay or straight. You keep personal issues at home, work issues at work. You're not supposed to mix the two.



You all can come up to me with all the sob stories all you want to. I will not change my stance on this. I've seen it with my own eyes that repealing DADT isn't exactly necessary. If they're not giving the boot to the who knows how many people in my husband's Company, my best friends' Units.. It isn't necessary. It's those people that feel it necessary to spread to the world that they're gay that have a problem with it. You don't need to tell everyone your sexual orientation just as much as you don't need to spread around all your personal affairs.



I stand firm in my decision. I don't think it's necessary to repeal DADT.

Stifler's - posted on 09/27/2010

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What? Who cares if they are gay? Soldiers have their place regardless of sexuality.

Charlene - posted on 09/27/2010

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Heather.. they already can't live with their s/o.. so that point is pretty moot. But repealing DADT, IMO anyway, is a good, strong step forward in getting equal rights for the gay community.

Dana - posted on 09/27/2010

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Well maybe because I happen to know a lot of the ladies here who have responded I see it differently. Like I said, we all know there's more work to be done besides the legality of repealing DADT

Heather - posted on 09/27/2010

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Quite the contrary. Everyone else is pretending like repealing DADT will fix the problem. I'm trying to raise awareness about the deeper issues with it because when it's repealed and there are still problems, it's going to be blamed on the "Army" or the "Marines" etc. like it is now. I'm hoping if people know about some of the deeper issues before hand, they can start advocating changes that will actually help repealing DADT succeed. Repealing DADT WON'T do any good if gay soldiers still can't live their lives with their life partners in the military.

[deleted account]

I don't see why anyone would NOT want to repeal DADT, it is discriminatory and completely, unfair. Yes it may not solve all the issues, but sometimes baby steps are needed to actually 'fix' problems, small steps to progress are better than no steps to progress!

As for ANY personnel in the army who have issues with working with a homosexual they should be punished accordingly, as would be expected for those who are outside the army.

Dana - posted on 09/27/2010

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It just seems as if you're "saying" that you agree with DADT BUT, it's not really going to work unless we do this, this and this.
Everyone knows that there's more to do, none of us are stupid but, your posts just keep coming off as if the repeal of DADT is negative.

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