SIDS and the risk.

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Tara - posted on 01/16/2011

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SIDS can not be "caught" you can not have 3 close sids calls.
SIDS is not when a baby has respiratory distress or sleep apnea, which the angel alarm will alert you to, SIDS is unexplained death. Sleep apnea or other respiratory distress would be the cause of death if a child died that way.
But having an angel alarm in place does not mean your baby had close calls with SIDS. It means your baby had close calls with a breathing issue.

Sanisha - posted on 01/16/2011

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SIDS which is now referred to as SUID stands for sudden unexplained infant death. That means all anyone can say is that after an thorough examination (external, internal, tox screens, some genetic testing, etc), they did not find anything wrong with the baby. All organs were in full working order. It is a diagnosis of exclusion, everything thing else has been excluded as the cause of death.

On that note young babies do have apnea, especially in their sleep, where they just forget to breath. Adults have sleep apnea. Most will start back on their own. That can happen whether the baby is on the back or stomach. It is advised to put the baby to sleep on the back, because young babies do no have strong neck muscles. If they are able to sort of turn then head into the mattress/bedding, they can suffocate, because they are unable to unwedge their face. This would not be a SIDS death.

Most of SIDS recommendations are to help keep your baby safe. But they are recommendations. Not following does not mean your baby will die and doing them all does not mean your baby has no chance of passing prematurely. I think name calling for not following the recommendations is ridiculous. Most mothers are only trying to do what is best for their baby.

Jodi - posted on 01/13/2011

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That's nasty, but then again, it was the OP that started calling her names too.....doesn't mean it was okay, but I think several of them stooped pretty low.



Shannen, in that thread, I agree with Jennifer, there are reasons people are actually ADVISED to sleep their babies on their tummies, and this actually is the best thing for them.

Isobel - posted on 01/13/2011

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After 6 weeks of my first child sleeping no more than half an hour at a time, my mother came to visit and demanded that I put my baby on her belly and go take a nap while she promised to stare at her and make sure she was breathing.

The baby slept for 4 hours...I never imagined how 4 hours of sleep can restore sanity...had I continued on the path I was on...she would have died from Shaken Baby Syndrome...I have absolutely no doubt of that.

I had an alarm in her crib that would go off if she stopped breathing and I kept her monitor beside my ear...

but yeah...sleeping on her belly SAVED HER LIFE

Johnny - posted on 01/13/2011

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I think most people know, if they don't, they probably don't read, don't watch tv, don't listen to the radio, and don't talk to anyone else. I do know a few people though, who desperately wanted their kids to sleep on their backs, knew the risks, and still ended up having to put them on their stomachs because they absolutely would not sleep lying on their backs. The women that I know that had to do this really agonized over it, and I think all of them had those Angel Care monitors that tracks breathing. Two of them kept their babies on extremely firm mattresses in their own bedrooms to be right there in case the monitors went off. I get what you are saying about why it is so important, and I think that absolutely everyone who can do it should. It's silly to take unnecessary risks. But sometimes, it just isn't possible. And then all precautions should be taken.

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[deleted account]

My first thought is if there were these gas build ups don't you think someone would have noticed during an autopsy?
I don't know it seems like he is using information we already know and making it sound bigger and better than it really is.
It's dodgy and un reliable to sya the least IMO.

Hannah - posted on 01/25/2011

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Not to take away from this thread's direction but I found something INTERESTING on SIDS this evening when I googled 'sids prevention Canada' in trying to find out if giving my nine month old a blanket is alright?

While searching I found a link that caught my eye and started reading it.

http://www.babysake.com/index.htm

Has anyone else heard of Dr. Sprott? I googled him and entered 'dr sprott' and got this link:

http://www.cotlife2000.com/

Thoughts?

[deleted account]

Jess- Your totally right. SIDS death is preventable if caught but is rarely caught. A friend of my moms almost lost her baby who stopped breathing in her arms, they were able to resuscitate the baby and she was on oxygen for awhile.

Jess - posted on 01/25/2011

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Tara, I understand where your coming from with your comment regarding Near miss sids events, but if you want to argue with the ped's at one of the worlds leading children's hospital please be my guest ! The medical term for what happened to my daughter was "near miss sids" she was breathing 1 minute and not the next, we had to revive her, she was cold and blue and limp. After more than a year and 2 more episodes they still can't tell us what happen, it was Sudden and unexplained and if it was not for quick thinking she would be dead.

I'm not going to argue with doctors with decades of experience !

[deleted account]

When my kids were babies (in the 80s) we were advised to put them to sleep on their tummies. I found it very difficult when I saw my daughter putting her babies to sleep on their backs! I understand the reasoning and the science behind this recommendation,but it sure did look funny - even dangerous - to me!

[deleted account]

My baby spits up every time she's on her back. We have to lay her on her side or she'll spit up and choke. She's done it since she was born. The nurses at the hospital kept putting her on her back and she'd spit up and choke, even with the bed elevated, and hubby and I would have to clean her up and lay her on her side. But we would never lay her on her stomach. We both know that infants' diaphragms are too weak for them to sleep on their tummies. But they get stronger as they grow. I've been told that when a baby can roll around on its own, and not just back and forth (because my Julie can roll back and forth as she wishes, but she'll only be two weeks this Thursday), then SIDS risk isn't as high. Julie is a great sleeper and rolls over onto her side now on her own anyway. She has much more trouble being on her back than she does on her side. But like I said, we'd never lay her on her stomach. That's just asking for something bad to happen, in my opinion. She's got some lungs on her but that doesn't mean her little diaphragm is strong enough to support her own weight.



Also, she hasn't spat up since we changed her formula to ProSobee and brought her home. So that's kind of telling me something about the nurses who refused to listen to us about our baby...

Melissa - posted on 01/16/2011

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my baby puked up all the time. I agree you elevate the matress put pillows under it but no need to sleep on their tummy for that. Some kids throw up so much they lose weight instead of gain and they are still slept on there backs. When I was a baby it was recommended to sleep on the tummy so I was also slept that was

Jess - posted on 01/16/2011

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Lets face it, they have NO IDEA what causes SIDS and therefore no practise is full proof. My daughter has had 3 near miss SIDS. 3 times my daughter has nearly died, there is not a practise we haven't tried ! All you can do is sleep a baby in a position they are comfortable with, and use a monitor like the Angel Care monitor, saved our little girl 3 times. Wouldn't be without it !

Ez - posted on 01/15/2011

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Ahh ok. Those recommendations must have changed between the early and late 80s! My brother was born in 84 and slept on his tummy.

Stifler's - posted on 01/15/2011

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I knew about the SIDS risk. The nurses at the hospital knew. My kid just would not go to fricking sleep unless it was on his side. In the hospital they took him away because I was putting him on his back and he wouldn't stop wailing and he came back fast asleep on his belly.

Ez - posted on 01/15/2011

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Are you quite young then Sarah? Because I know when I was a baby, nearly 30 years ago, we were definitely put to sleep on our bellies. It was standard recommendation. And at that time, reflux babies slept in bouncers or car seats. My cousin actually slept in a car seat until he was 6 months old.

[deleted account]

Shauna it was because I had reflux trust me my sister's never slept on their tummy because they didn't have reflux one of my sister's was born only 14 months after me. my mum is a pediatric nurse and she was before i was born so unlike most people she knew the SIDS risk but had to anyway otherwise i would of aspirated on my own bile and died

Shauna - posted on 01/15/2011

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She prob has pics of you on your tummy b/c when you were born the idea of sleeping on the back wasnt around. Ifn fact they told mothers to put children on their tummys. Now we know children with reflux need to be elevated. you can simply put a boppy under their mattress or anything to prop the mattress up, or simply put them to sleep in a bouncy seat *when they are young infants*

[deleted account]

Sunny - my mother has pictures of me as a newborn sleeping on my stomach because of reflux it's a common sleep position because the baby can aspirate the bile and die if they're on their back

Sunny - posted on 01/15/2011

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Well that was one hell of a read!
I've never heard of a parent being told to sleep their baby on their back because of reflux. My son had terrible reflux and spent time in hospital, but we were never told to sleep him on his stomach, we were given a foam wedge to elevate the cot mattress, worked like a charm. Every mum i know has been told the same thing. Different doctors i guess. But it seems safer to me.

[deleted account]

sometimes a doctor recommends you put bub on their stomach this is rare. sometimes bub won't sleep on their back. but yes its recommended and my son slept on his back until he kept rolling onto his stomach and by that time he was fine he could lift his head up and his cot had nothing that could obstruct him. Yes some people said I should be rolling him back over but at 7 months I didn't feel it was nescessary

Nikkole - posted on 01/14/2011

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Yea my daughter is 6months old and has really bad reflux and i didnt know it helped sleeping on there tummy's but she sleep everywhere lol she will be on her tummy one min and then her back the next i always put her to bed on her bakc then she moves where she wants but shes sleeps in a pack n play by my bed without blankets or pillows or animals! Having kids is scary there are soo many things we mothers have to worry about!

Kate CP - posted on 01/14/2011

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Tara: I'm not saying that bed sharing causes SIDS or that it kills babies. I'm just saying that it can happen any where to any one.

Shauna - posted on 01/14/2011

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Infants sleeping with loose bedding is also a factor in sids, but in another forum when i stated loose bedding should not be used i got beat up over it. So ..... no comment.

Jodi - posted on 01/14/2011

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I think it was very obvious that the OP was written out of concern, kindness and was not written with the intent to be judgemental. The very first poster on that thread just pulled out her claws and it went downhill from there. I think people sometimes need to stop and not just read the words, but actually attempt to comprehend what someone is trying to get across. (i.e. that this lady was just trying to save someone else from tragedy, NOT trying to call anyone who lets their baby sleep on their belly a horrible mom.) Again, I did not find the OP judgemental or offensive, but eventually even she took a few digs, I probably would have too with some of the things that were being said.

Melissa - posted on 01/14/2011

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I see so many people are against it but my daughter has her blankets a frog and a seahorse that play music in her cot and little cot toys hanging off the sides. I dont think she is at risk of anythign happening since cots are alot bigger then bassinettes

Sarah - posted on 01/14/2011

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Since SIDS deaths have decreased by 90% since the latest sleeping advice has been around, i would be inclined to go with that and discard advice from say the 50s.

I know a lot of SIDS deaths are not preventable but a lot are, and following the guidelines, i believe is the safest thing to do.

Things like, no toys or pillows in the cot, smoke free environment and air flow into the cot are extremely easy things to do. As for sleeping them on their backs, i think try it first and if it works that's great and stick with it, and if it doesn't then it doesn't, so what can you do other than make sure the mattress is firm so they won't suffocate.

I think co-sleeping is great, i've done both since my daughter was born, and i love it! As far as i know there are no additional SIDS or suffocation risks for co-sleepers if done safely.



Edited to add- Back in the 50s babies were suddenly dying but doctors didn't know why. It has only been in recent years that they have started to figure it out and provide advice that decreases the risk.

[deleted account]

Also I wanted to add that I was told when I had my oldest that letting her sleep on her stomach was fine as long as she was on a firm mattress with nothing in her bed not even a blanket.

[deleted account]

What is SIDS?

SIDS is the sudden and unexpected death of an apparently healthy infant, whose death remains unexplained after the performance of an adequate postmortem investigation including (1) an autopsy, (2) investigation of the scene and circumstances of the death and (3) exploration of the medical history of the infant and family.

In a typical situation parents check on their supposedly sleeping infant to find him or her dead. This is the worse tragedy parents can face, a tragedy which leaves them with a sadness and a feeling of vulnerability that lasts throughout their lives. Since medicine can not tell them why their baby died, they blame themselves and often other innocent people. Their lives and those around them are changed forever.

There is no confirmed cause of sids! Years ago new moms were told to put baby on their side or even on their tummy to avoid sids. Exhaustion can cause an infant to stop breathing also so if they won't sleep any other way they still NEED to sleep. A friend of mine has a 3 week old baby girl that stopped breathing about a week ago and they were able to save her but they said she was too exhausted and needed to be left to rest. This same woman lost her first daughter to sids at about 2 weeks old.

Rosie - posted on 01/14/2011

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i thought it was nice of her to put the word out there, but she just sortof freaked out after people tried telling her that there were some kids even not medically needed, that COULD sleep on their bellies for the mothers sanity. i know if my first wouldn't of been a good sleeper i would've probably shaken him. i was a depressed, miserable, sleep deprived mess. any longer than 6 weeks i would've lost it.

jennifer in there said that we take risks all the time by putting the kids in cars, exposing them to cancer causing chemicals and so forth, sometimes we weigh the risk, and go for it.

i personally couldn't do that, but i can understand how someone who had a baby that would ONLY sleep on their belly would resort to it.

Meghan - posted on 01/14/2011

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I am not saying that the studies are wrong, the only thing I have an issue with is how all of these studies change all the time. Obviously tech.has increased and they are able to determine new causes, but that has always been my pet peeve. I have talked to many mothers who have kids a few years apart and get told new/different things with each one. it can get confusing.
With that being said, I listened to the nurses. J was put on his back- the few times he actually would sleep by himself and not on me. My ex's mom used to be an RN and she argued with me all the time and said he should be on his tummy. If she put him down I would go in after and flip him to his back. But as soon as he was able to roll over he would sleep on his tummy, he still does.

Tara - posted on 01/14/2011

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Kate,
Not all cultures where bed sharing is the norm are impoverished places where infant mortality is high anyway, some of these cultures have lower immortality than the US does.
And yes I'm sure it happens, occasionally but not nearly as often. And there is no way to know if they were smothered or not. But I honestly believe that if bed sharing caused death in infants our species would have died out a long time ago, same with if we as a species decided from the beginning that our offspring were to be placed in another cave, on their own hide, wrapped in their own set of furs, we would have died out before we even had language skills.
And yes I know, we have central heating and air conditioning and baby monitors both audio and video, and angel alarms etc. etc. but I believe in biology for the general populace.

Bonnie - posted on 01/14/2011

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Wow, I can not believe that thread. It is ridiculous. Some people just don't know about putting babies to sleep on their backs. You would figure that having babies in this day and age, they would be familiar with the concept though. Honestly, I know someone who never put her child to sleep on their back and her doctor never told her to either. Makes you wonder. When my boys were babies, I constantly had to remind my parents and my inlaws that when you put them down for a nap, please make sure they are put on their back. It wasn't done years ago.

Kate CP - posted on 01/14/2011

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Tara: it probably is killing babies in developing countries but infant mortality is so high there it's hard to keep reports straight, I'd imagine. I'm all for bed sharing if done safely (I can't bed share personally because of the medications I take). There have been a few reports of SIDS while bed sharing but it's hard to tell if those babies genuinely died of SIDS or if they were accidentally smothered.

Tara - posted on 01/14/2011

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When I had my son over 17 years ago, we were told to put them to sleep on their side, with a towel rolled up behind them so they DIDN'T sleep on their backs!!

I co-slept with all 6 of the kids (still sleep with Riley most nights) and I never really cared how they slept as long as it wasn't on the belly, because of the risk of air intoxication from their own breathing and the risk of smothering from the mattress etc. but as soon as they could roll onto their bellies I didn't move them.

Because of the nature of falling asleep at the breast, my babies slept on their side a lot of the time.

Sids is killing babies all over the developed world, why isn't it killing babies in countries where people bed share?

I'm sure they're out there but I have never heard of a baby dying from sids while co-sleeping. Yes babies die when people don't bed share properly or safely, when people drink or do drugs etc. but normal, healthy bed sharing has been suggested to reduce the risk of sids due to a lot of factors.

I'm not a fool either, this sleeping on their backs deal hasn't been around a long time, humans have survived for all of humanity by trusting our instincts and sleeping like animals do, with their babies, close by. All the science in the world could never convince me that my baby is better off in another room by themselves, whether they are on their backs, on their tummies or in any other position.

In Canada, they don't endorse co-sleeping but do put out information on how to do it safely, but interestingly they do recommend that new babies sleep "within arms reach" of mom or dad.

I truly believe we will come full circle one day regarding sleeping with our babies for at least for the first 6 months, and doctors will finally realize that what nature designed is what works.

And as a disclaimer, this is not meant to imply that not co-sleeping somehow makes you (general usage) a bad/neglectful or ignorant parent, nor does it imply that this is for everyone, just like some babies should sleep on their tummies for medical reasons, I do understand that some people would be told for similar extenuating circumstances that they should not co-sleep, but in general, as a whole, I think we will revert back to our more natural, instinctive form of child rearing.

jmo of course.

:)

Oh sorry for the length, and I didn't read any of the locked thread. I just got a little hot under the collar about the "fool" comment.

Sarah - posted on 01/14/2011

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I think Kate had very good intentions posting that, and is obviously very loving and caring. Yes the way she said it was a bit harsh and she realised that and apologized :)
I agree, that sids is obviously a big killer and taking all the precautions to prevent it is necessary. I'm not including medical issues though, obviously there are plenty of reasons that tummy sleeping is safer for their baby, and i guess those mums and all mums should be taking all other precautions- no toys in the cot, no smoke in the room, no pillows or doonas etc. Maybe even a fan on or one of those mattress breathing monitors if possible. :)
That convo was crazy hey! All that abuse being thrown back and forth over one helpful, but badly worded comment! lol!

Melissa - posted on 01/14/2011

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I 100% disagree I had mixed feelings but everyone including my daughters daycare worker said to put my baby to sleep on her tummy you can watch them during the day u are there when they are in the basinette I think its fine baby needs sleep to and if it helps them great. When she put her face down I moved her head straight to the side and I never left her for more then as few seconds when on her tummy. Im the most paranoid mother. I think whatever works for you.I wouldnt put my child to bed over night on her stomach. To worried. I wake my nearly 6 month old up when she is on her stoamch if she has turned and fell asleep that way

Jodi - posted on 01/14/2011

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Maybe we should send the link to Catherine and have her deal with it, because it sure looks like there is no-one active there to sort it out....

[deleted account]

Erin, i'm sure she did recruit some of her friends. I saw it on my Fb page as one of my friends, who must know her personally, had commented.

[deleted account]

I flagged it all to.
I didn't find the OP to bad. Yeah it could have been said nicer way but i found the first reply completely uncalled for. She didn't even say that yes it is recommended for babies to be on their backs she jsut argued and got nasty.
I don't deny that there is need for some babies to be put to sleep on their tummy's. Like i said My 2nd child was a tummy sleeper.

Ez - posted on 01/13/2011

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Holy shit! I just flagged the crap out of that thread too. Looks like the OP recruited some friends to jump on and attack the woman who accused her of killing her baby at the end. Geez...

I don't even know if they have active mods over there?!? I haven't been on that board for a long time - Milla's too old! - but I don't ever remember it being fiesty like that.

Nicole - posted on 01/13/2011

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Amie, that is true. It was an intense topic and it was getting very heated.

I remember I was going to prenatal classes and one week the moms decided they wanted to talk about SIDS and exchange SIDS stories, and talk about third hand smoke, and they were really getting into the conversation. I had to walk out. It was too much.

Some topics are like that, hard to talk about without getting worked up.

I am glad I walked out, and went home. I cannot imagine how hard it would be to lose a child. I never want to know how that feels.

Amie - posted on 01/13/2011

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When they do finally log on, there's going to be a bunch of flags and a couple members they'll have to deal with. lol

Jodi - posted on 01/13/2011

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Wow, I just kept reading - that went south pretty quickly. I wonder where the Mods ARE?

Amie - posted on 01/13/2011

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I flagged everything, right from the first attack by the OP and onwards. It doesn't seem like the admin and mods are over there though. That thread started yesterday and just spiraled. =/

Nicole - posted on 01/13/2011

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"Nicole that one was the one that got me.
Not many people agreed with the OP anyway. I don't get it. I really thought people were smarter than that.
I also wondered where the mods were for that one because OMG what a THUMP and nothing was done no one was reprimanded. I have been told off for much much less."

I was at least expecting to see her post deleted but it was still up last time I checked

Amie - posted on 01/13/2011

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Ya, I gotta agree with Jodi on that one. The OP was somewhat hostile from the beginning. Does it excuse what was said? No but it wasn't solely one person at fault over there.

Amie - posted on 01/13/2011

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Ok first; that thread is ridiculous. Where are the admin and mods on that page? Wow.



As was stated in that thread as well, some babies are recommended to sleep on their bellies. Is it for every baby? Of course not.

[deleted account]

Nicole that one was the one that got me.
Not many people agreed with the OP anyway. I don't get it. I really thought people were smarter than that.
I also wondered where the mods were for that one because OMG what a THUMP and nothing was done no one was reprimanded. I have been told off for much much less.

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