So I Nursed Him Every 45 mins

Ez - posted on 02/11/2011 ( 98 moms have responded )

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I came across this article about how a mother followed her instincts and rejected 'advice' as she cared for her baby.

The article is long so here are a few excerpts :)

Luckily, for my son's sake, I trusted those darn instincts I didn't think I had, and I let him just nurse and nap in my arms whenever he wanted to by day, and nurse and sleep beside me whenever he wanted to at night. Those instincts, however, were not easy to distinguish from messages I had carried since childhood. These were ingrained so deeply that they felt like instincts, yet they were really more like old tapes running over and over, criticizing, judging, and blaming at every provocation. My instincts told me to keep my thoughts to myself. And I learned to do just that, and to let my instincts guide me.

Relieved to find expert opinions that validated my instincts, (15) I concluded that my son was dependent on me because he was supposed to be. Only a caring, predictable environment could help him experience the world as a warm, loving place. The notion of pushing children into independence, I found, stemmed from an age-old belief that babies are born wicked and a parent's job is to break their will and turn them into well-behaved children. I, on the other hand, believe that babies are born precious and learn to behave by the ways in which they are treated.

I felt much less stress as soon as I realized that it was OK for him to be needy, and OK for me to be responsive. If anything was making me anxious and nervous, it was their words. Being responsive felt right--more right than anything I had ever done in my life.

In due course, I realized that if I did not respond immediately to my son's cries for my attention, he would not cry his little head off forever. No, he would eventually give up, convinced that communication is not effective. He would sense that he has no rights, and no idea of what is good for him. He would conclude that he should not be hungry when his body tells him he is, and that he is wrong to feel what he feels.

I also realized that our society has little understanding of newborns, and does not sanction compassion for their needs or feelings. Demand nursing, as I saw it, was no different from caring for a family member who has been rendered powerless. Would we refuse an incapacitated father a meal because it was "not time"? Or leave a paralyzed spouse alone in a room to "cry it out"--checking in every 10 minutes to say, "It's Ok"--without trying to find out what is wrong and doing something about it? If he or she only wanted to be held, would we refuse, for fear of spoiling someone we love? How can anyone claim that legal or religious tenets require us to deny babies sustenance and comfort "in their best interests"?

http://www.naturalchild.org/guest/elizab...

Thoughts??

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Mrs. - posted on 02/12/2011

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Again, I really don't mind if you follow your instincts and your instincts say you must wear you child strapped to you head all day. It's when you write an article in a tone that smacks of your shit not stinking and then say head baby wearing is "right" (therefore, people who don't head baby wear are wrong).



No problems with the head baby wearing, it may not be for me but perhaps if I was in your situation and lived your life-it might be.



You know what it reminds me of. Religion. I'm totally cool if you want to believe in Jesus. Now if you write an article that says how much better off you are than others and push Jesus down people's collective throats...I'm not gonna feel awesome about that. In fact, if you just tell me in a loving open way how Jesus changed you life-I might just listen in the same manner.



The guideline Loureen put out there are like commandments, yes? Now we all know that some f-d up people take certain commandments from the bible and use them in a way that can make other Christians ashamed. Yes, there are just a set of simple rules that anyone might apply. Still, we all know it goes beyond that with many in the AP movement. For some, lording over others what is right and better is more important than the commandment. That goes for Jesus and AP.

Sharon - posted on 02/11/2011

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If this is strictly about newborns - then I agree with most of what she says. But I get the feeling this is a freak of AP and her parenting in this vein goes way beyond infanthood.

I fed my kids on demand. and I don't give a shit if that phrase bothers you because someone else uses it in a different way. "on cue" what a fucking joke. Lets take politically correct to moronic extremes???

I fed my kids when they were hungry. They let me know in various ways. I tried to preempt their crying because I didn't think I needed to wait for them to cry to try and figure out what they might want. food? attention? diaper change?

I'm not a follower, never was. I'd been taking care of kids long enough to have a lot of respect for them and their intelligence. Most people assume kids are just stupid and will one day smarten up. I don't know how if they're continually treated like retards.

Rosie - posted on 02/11/2011

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the article irritated me, of course, lol!

this part in particular did it for me:
The notion of pushing children into independence, I found, stemmed from an age-old belief that babies are born wicked and a parent's job is to break their will and turn them into well-behaved children. I, on the other hand, believe that babies are born precious and learn to behave by the ways in which they are treated.

so someone who uses CIO thinks their kid is wicked, and don't think their child is precious. whatever. *eyeroll* AND sigh.

i will never understand why someone wouldn't feed their child if it was hungry. how does that make a better behaved child? i don't get it. it's the CIO thing that i don't understand why people think is so bad. my children cried LESS when using CIO than they did previously, and then stopped crying after about a week. they got their much needed rest, i got much needed rest, and everyone was happy. how is sitting there holding onto a wailing child for hours doing anybody good? i dont' get it.

so anyhoo, classifying people who feed on schedule or use CIO as people who don't think their kid is precious, yet instead think they are wicked tends to push my buttons a bit. she could've talked about how wonderful it was to do what she did the way she did, for HER. cause i can tell you right now having a child attached to me every 45 min. would've been horrid for me.

Minnie - posted on 02/11/2011

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I actually can't stand the term 'on demand.' Some people who schedule-feed their young infants believe they are still feeding 'on demand'- because look he's DEMANDING it (by being red-faced and crying).



I like the term 'on cue'- looking for subtle signs that baby wants to nurse instead.

Charlie - posted on 02/12/2011

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Again Alyssa they are aspects not rules you seem to have trouble separating the two .



Most parents that practice attachment theory follow a particular route but it isn't set in stone as " rules " the point of AP is that it is flexible to each individual parent and the relationship they have with their child , what you have posted are typical ways for an AP parent to form a bond and nothing else you are projecting your feelings against AP onto the article posted .



Yes most will breastfeed or at least try if not they have formula to fall back on but recognize that you can achieve similar results AP wise if breastfeeding doesn't work out .



I am a little baffled as to why you chose to post that particular article , was it to prove a point ? because if you truly wanted to point out what AP IS you would have chosen the article from the very same website titled :



What is attachment parenting? (take special note of the last paragraph)



Attachment parenting (also called “natural parenting” or “instinctive parenting”) is an approach to parenting that has been practised widely for thousands of years. There has recently been a renewed interest in this approach to parenting in Western societies. Attachment parenting is based on the principle of understanding a child’s emotional and physical needs and responding sensitively to these needs. The focus of attachment parenting is on building a strong relationship between parents and child.



A strong and trusting relationship with your child can be developed by following your intuition; responding to your baby’s cries; “demand” breastfeeding for an extended period; carrying or “wearing” your baby; using gentle ways to help your baby sleep; co-sleeping with your baby and minimising separation from your baby during the first few years.



However, attachment parenting is not a set of rules and does not necessarily mean following all of the above. These practises simply help to develop a close, empathic relationship with your child in order to better understand your child’s needs and feelings. Children are not seen as manipulators who must be controlled. Attachment parenting extends beyond the early infant period and involves a life-long desire to know your child and to parent in an understanding and nurturing way.



http://www.attachmentparentingaustralia....

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[deleted account]

I held my daughters and even while asleep.I couldn't do the cry it out so my first slept peacefully and happily beside me for 3yrs.

Do what feels right and most importantly what allows your baby to be more happy and comfortable doing.For my first it was always soothing and comforting she needed.My second she liked her space, slept in her own cot from birth and through the night.She wasnt fond of anyone holding her for the first year of her life.She liked being held for feeding, changing and bathing.That was it.There all different and all mothers raise different.I raised my daughters based on what the wanted.I feel that was the right way for me and them.



As regards feeding do what the baby wants.If your child wants feeding, feed them.A lot of b/f babys feed on demand.My second did for the first day and after that was on the breast every 2-3 hours.My first refused breast for 2days and became ill, even though i was encouraged to still breast feed my heart was telling me to give her a bottle.For a newborn to polish off a 4oz bottle in one go, she was starving but for some reason wouldnt take the breast or breast milk from a bottle.I did what i felt was right and what my babys were doing, i went it.

Charlie - posted on 02/14/2011

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I use the the sling the most and it works for up to 18 kilos !

In regards to slings and third world countries I do not believe the reasoning for it is so simple for the fact that a lot of third world countries also run on a basis that it takes a village to raise a family convenience is of course part of the reason but not all as is seen in attempts to market strollers to women in Africa where it was " met with amusement and dismal failure to sell. The mothers wondered why on earth they would need such contraptions, and what was wrong with white people's babies that they would need to be in such isolation! "

( note I do not believe it is isolation I DO use a pram as well )

But you can see that there simply is no desire or need in their eye's .

Co sleeping as well is less about space but a biological imperative , it was a means of survival .
a consideration of human infant and parental biology and psychology reveal the existence of powerful physiological and social factors that promote maternal motivations to cosleep and explain parental needs to touch and sleep close to baby.

Although we have evolved the biological benefits remain the same as Dr McKenna the worlds leading infant sleep and SIDS expert explains "human infants are still born the most neurologically immature primate of all, with only 25% of their brain volume. This represents a uniquely human characteristic that could only develop biologically (indeed, is only possible) alongside mother’s continuous contact and proximity—as mothers body proves still to be the only environment to which the infant is truly adapted, for which even modern western technology has yet to produce a substitute."

Yes it isn't suitable for everyone that is a given , loving sleep situations vary from the baby who hates to be held to the baby that needs to be close to mum .

Alyssa - posted on 02/13/2011

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Cathy, Well put. The same can apply to co-sleeping I guess? In third world countries families commonly sleep in one area and mattresses laid out on the floor...do they have a choice not to co-sleep?

[deleted account]

I'm looking into them. My son is the same age as your Loureen and i am seriously considering buying one for when we are out and about.
Which one do you use more often? I like the look of the sling the most.

Charlie - posted on 02/13/2011

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I have a bubba moe sling and a mei tie wrap ....Bubba moe is an Aussie brand .

Kate CP - posted on 02/13/2011

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My sister knit one for me! It's beautiful and my son loves it. :)

Sorry, I had to boast. ;)

[deleted account]

I want one more baby and i will buy a sling if we have one more. I think i will still try to hold the baby because it's what i'm used to.
Loureen what sort of sling do you have?

Charlie - posted on 02/13/2011

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I wore a sling for convenience and a little for the exercise aspect at first too I had no idea of the biological benefits of wearing your baby until I looked further into it , basically it made life easy and I had boys who were happy .

Mary - posted on 02/13/2011

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As an avid babywearer, I'd be the first to admit that I started because it simplified my life tremendously. Most of you know already that it all stemmed from my need to keep walking my dogs a few miles a day. A stroller and two dogs was absolute disaster (although my few attempts at it greatly amused my neighbors). I was just lucky that she liked it so much!

Once I got the hang of it, I used to do a lot of things with her, especially shopping. For me, it was a hell of lot easier than lugging that infant carrier into the grocery store. An added blessing was that she pretty much never cried or fussed in that thing, so I never had to leave with my half-full cart sitting in the middle of the aisle because she was screaming her head off. I also found it great at the beach; I strapped her on, and could still carry my beach bag and chair. When she was just over a year old, I even put her in the ergo and shoveled snow, something I couldn't have done any other way if my husband wasn't home to watch her.

For me, it was all about functionality, and very little about some parenting methodology .

Sarah - posted on 02/13/2011

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Firstly, I agree with everything Cathy has said!

Secondly, "parenting naturally" and by "instinct" is what I did. As I said in an earlier post, I was hideously under prepared for birth/teeny babies! lol
So I did what felt right to me.

It included none of the AP methods ie. the baby wearing/co-sleeping/bf-ing.

So, it seems that some people instincts and ways of parenting naturally can be completely different. I was swayed by anything other than my own instincts.

Merry - posted on 02/13/2011

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I like seeing how humans naturally parent without the pressures of 'modern' society, or books giving opposite advise,, and doctors who try to give advise when they don't know the facts, and just the general ideas that more modern countries have about babies needing to fit into our lives, instead of us changing our lives to raise our kids.
Idk, it's very eye opening to see how third worked countries raise babies, I wouldn't copy every thing they do, but it's good to know a wide variety of parenting styles so you can feel confident you chose the best practices for you.
Idk if that makes sense or not, it's hard to explain.

Sal - posted on 02/13/2011

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my boobs were so big and sore that when i tried a sling it was painful on my boobs so i stood oddly and then my back hurt, no sling for us, people i know who used them loved them though..

Sal - posted on 02/13/2011

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thankyou for these principals loreen, but i don;t think they are exclusive for AP, they are pretty basic principals of parenting in general, isn't it when we start putting labels on things that we start to judge our selves and others, why does one way have to be right and there for the others wrong, we all learn how to parent our children, what i did with my 1st was not what i did with my second,

It is essentially a philosophy that goes by these eight principles :

1. Preparation for Pregnancy, Birth and Parenting
2. Feed with Love and Respect
3. Respond with Sensitivity
4. Use Nurturing Touch
5. Ensure Safe Sleep, Physically and Emotionally
6. Provide Consistent Loving Care
7. Practice Positive Discipline
8. Strive for Balance in Personal and Family Life
As you can see these principles leave room for individual requirements .

Merry - posted on 02/13/2011

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Wouldn't every baby benefit and enjoy being held in a sling? I mean it's close to mom, smell her milk, constant movement, similar to the womb.... I could see how if you don't start wearing baby from birth on then the baby might resist being in a sling, but from birth, I would think every newborn would be happy to be carried all day in a sling!
I don't think there are exceptions in the countries where every baby is carried in a sling, I think that it's just the normal thing to carry every newborn in a sling and I doubt they have any babies who don't like it!

I've only had one baby so far so I don't claim to be an expert, it just sounds logical to me :)

Rosie - posted on 02/13/2011

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"Kati- I think of Gary Ezzo- like Erin mentioned. His beliefs DO stem from the idea that children are inherently wicked and manipulative and pushes strict scheduling- accepting crying up to 45 minutes alone in the crib for newborns.

He's got a book, and he's widely read. So obviously there ARE people who choose to not nurse their newborns when they're hungry"-lisa

i never said there weren't people out there that chose to follow a schedule when feeding their child. i know that many of them are out there. my point was that even though i don't understand why someone WOULDN'T feed their child when it's hungry, i don't presume to think that i love my kid more that that person. do i think her technique is flawed??well, yeah. but do i love my kid more? well, that's a whole lot of assumptions, and we all know what is said about making one! ;)

Alyssa - posted on 02/12/2011

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I never said my opinion is the be all and end all, that is my interpretation of how the website comes across!!!

I just don't get why you are being so defensive when I have posted something straight from an AP website??

These are the things that they suggest, are they not? They are the elements of AP that help to make up the bigger picture. (in MY words) "do these thing and you can achieve this" Othewrwise why would they suggest them.

Basic principles are AP...yes. And the aspects of AP is what you can do to achieve AP????

Charlie - posted on 02/12/2011

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But those basic principals ARE what AP is ... most parents practice some form of AP whether they are aware of it or not just because YOUR opinion is that AP is " saying do it this way or you won't be doing the best for your child" doesn't make it so , all AP parents and the very people who coined the term disagree with you you want people to be aware of what AP is and yet it is very clear you have no clue .

Alyssa - posted on 02/12/2011

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""And this is what I can't stand. It's like they are saying do it this way or you won't be doing the best for your child""

MY OPINION!!! I didn't say they were rules,

And I have read the whole page, did you expect me to put the whole thing on here?

I think people should be aware of exactly what AP is, not just the broad principles that were posted, because every parent does that stuff, don't they.

Charlie - posted on 02/12/2011

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The only thing that confuses me is that you posted the article and then wrote "....And this is what I can't stand. It's like they are saying do it this way or you won't be doing the best for your child." after it ......you DID imply that the article was saying to do it as it stated when in fact it was merely showing aspects of AP that help form a bond and had nothing to do with the basic philosophy other than it mentioning practices commonly used by AP practitioners .

So did you read the last paragraph from the very same site you found your article ?

attachment parenting is not a set of rules and does not necessarily mean following all of the above. These practices simply help to develop a close, empathic relationship with your child in order to better understand your child’s needs and feelings.

It pretty much debates the very Idea you have perceived of it's own article .

Alyssa - posted on 02/12/2011

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Loureen.. Do you have me confused with another poster because nowhere have I said the "aspects" were rules and I too don't believe they are. I understand completely that they are some of the things that AP suggests a parent can do.....

Was I trying to prove a point? Well, obviously, this is a debate.
Like I said before I think that the "principles" that you posted were very general and I did not feel they reflected the true ideology of AP. Yes I know they come from AP but so to did the stuff I put up!!! I did not change anything, call me guilty of "cut and paste"............

Ez - posted on 02/12/2011

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Ap babies could be formula fed, sleep in cribs, and even spend time playing on the floor etc, it's just more about not pushing things on your baby when they aren't ready to go there.
You can gently use cribs, you can bond and cuddle while feeding a bottle, and you can interact and play and touch while baby isn't in your arms.


Yep. My AP baby had formula after 6 weeks despite my best efforts to BF (health problems). She also slept in a cot because she hated bed-sharing. Even as a tiny baby, she would never settle in bed with me.

Merry - posted on 02/12/2011

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I consider myself an ap mom, but I have not co slept with Eric. I still fit in the category of 'using gentle ways to help your baby sleep' as I have always breastfed Eric until he is asleep, then placed him in his crib (now toddler bed) and returned to breastfeed him as many times as he needs in the night. Ap isn't like a rule list, it's about how you view your childs wants, needs, instincts, and biological growth patterns.
Ap babies could be formula fed, sleep in cribs, and even spend time playing on the floor etc, it's just more about not pushing things on your baby when they aren't ready to go there.
You can gently use cribs, you can bond and cuddle while feeding a bottle, and you can interact and play and touch while baby isn't in your arms.
Idk, I think more moms are actually ap moms then they realize!

Ez - posted on 02/12/2011

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i think the thing that bothers me the most and makes me feel some AP mothers are sanctimonious, is that it's always implied that we don't care about our children. i personally think that is one of the worst things out there that someone could say or imply about another person.

Kati, if you (or anyone for that matter) have ever been made to feel like this based on one of my posts I will sincerely apologise here and now. I hope you know that would never be my intention.

Rosie - posted on 02/12/2011

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that is a wonderful analogy rebecca!! :) and i think the thing that bothers me the most and makes me feel some AP mothers are sanctimonious, is that it's always implied that we don't care about our children. i personally think that is one of the worst things out there that someone could say or imply about another person.
saying a child is going to run all over their parents because they don't spank, is hurtful and wrong, but to me in no way comparable to making the claim that you don't love your child.

i would also like you to know erin, that it was YOU specifically that made me realize that what you do (cause i'd never heard of it being called anything specific, just knew it was different from what i did) is not wrong, or weird, or going to make for a clingy kid. it's just something that you do that feels right for you, just as what i do feels right for me. so we aren't all that different after all. :)

Iridescent - posted on 02/12/2011

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Parents really do need to listen to their instincts more. It's because of being told not to, and them listening, that so many children get hurt, ill, lack the care they need. A lot of SIDS cases are caused by diseases that nobody recognized, because they were told to ignore their instincts, told by doctors their child is fine, go home and put them to bed, and they did, and they died. If the average mother knew that 1 out of at least every 5 children is born with a birth defect, and the majority of these birth defects are not obvious and are life threatening, do you think they would leave their child's side?! No! They would watch closely, get to know that child, and only relax when their child is showing they are fine on their own. It is related to this topic, because it's all about instincts of parenting. Colic is a common diagnosis of "I don't know what's wrong with your baby, and I don't care enough to find out", yet parents don't realize this and just accept it. So many ways these kids are getting hurt.

Alyssa - posted on 02/12/2011

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Loureeen, I felt it necessary to show that the "aspects" were much more specific compared to the "principles" that were posted earlier.

I have not assumed anything here....It is what is on their site! I would have loved to added the phrases to support each aspect - but who would read all that!

I wanted people to see that AP does have specific ways it reccommends mother do things in order to "achieve" the principles that you posted earlier.

Here is the link to the site:
http://www.attachmentparentingaustralia....

Charlie - posted on 02/12/2011

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Allyssa what you have posted is
""What are some aspects of attachment parenting that help parents connect to their baby?"

You will notice it is not "rules" or "guidelines " but in fact simple examples of practices that help parents who practice AP form close bonds with their babies , it doesn't say it must be this way or that it is the only way , you have taken a clipping of an article and given it your own assumption of what it means when it clearly states it's intentions at the start .

Charlie - posted on 02/12/2011

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Commandments are rules a philosophy is not that , it is the only part I disagree with in your post Rebecca other than that the comparison you made is a fair one which works both ways for extreme AP and extreme ( I don't know the word ) ....... Old school parenting practitioners or by the book ? ( try not to get offended please if there is offense to be taken it really isn't my intention )

Ez - posted on 02/12/2011

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Erin this is in no way a dig at you, but my guess is that what probably makes people almost immediately defensive is the use of the word right in the above statement.

Oh yeah I realise that. That's why I used it as an example ;) But it seems that word could really have been substituted for several others (best etc) and it still would rile up some people.

Anyway, I feel like I'm talking around in circles with this lol.

Ez - posted on 02/12/2011

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Rebecca and Cathy, the religion analogy is the best explanation for this long-standing divide and tension between both groups I've heard, so thank you.

I would also disagree that AP is about rules. It is much more centred on philosophy, and certain methods just happen to fit. That has always been my understanding anyway.

I never set out to be an AP mother. I had no idea what it was until I joined COM when my daughter was already a couple of months old. That's when I realised most of the things I had been doing and the overall attitude I had were in line with it's principles.

Bonnie - posted on 02/12/2011

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It's so true! So many mothers ask, so when am I suppose to do this and when am I suppose to do that? When really it should be the baby that decides or makes up their own schedule.
There is nothing wrong with carrying around a baby and giving him/her extra attention. They will not get spoiled.

If mothers or parents in general just looked for cues and take it day by day more so than running by the book or what other people say, there would be a lot less stress.

Mary - posted on 02/12/2011

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According to some of you, I am not allowed to say I know I'm doing the right thing because that means I'm trying to tear down another mother and being sanctimonious. But the same rule doesn't apply to 'mainstream' parenting.

Erin this is in no way a dig at you, but my guess is that what probably makes people almost immediately defensive is the use of the word right in the above statement.

What I've come to realize is that there is no definitive right or wrong way to parent, and it also varies within each family from child to child. Although I tend to avoid all of those parenting books out there like the plague, if I just objectively described what I did, most of you would probably classify me as an AP parent. Is what I did "right"? Depends on who you ask. All I know is that I did what worked for me, my child, and my family as a whole.

Is it "right" that I was an avid babywearer? I have no idea....it was just something that made all of us (even my dogs) not only happy, but functional. However, when I talk with other moms, some of them tell me how much either they, their child, or both, absolutely hated it. Perhaps, if I had a different child, s/he would have wailed incessantly when in that ergo, and we all would have been happier with a stroller.

Alyssa - posted on 02/12/2011

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These are the "aspects" of Attachment Parenting Australia which I have taken from their website. They seem pretty damn specific to me.

""What are some aspects of attachment parenting that help parents connect to their baby?""

Following your intuition.

Breastfeeding your baby for an extended period without schedule feeding (that is, extended breastfeeding “on demand”).

Using gentle ways to help your baby sleep.

Co-sleeping with your baby (that is, your baby sleeps in your bed or in your bedroom close to your bed).

Wearing your baby close to you, such as, in a sling or backpack.

Minimising time away from your baby during the first few years of your baby’s life.

Finding balance in your family life.

....And this is what I can't stand. It's like they are saying do it this way or you won't be doing the best for your child. How is this any different from the other end of the scale where people suggest 3 hourly feeds and crying it out. To me they are just as bad as each other....telling parents what the rules are and how to raise your children. I think most parents take a bit from everything and do their own thing, like I did. But TO ME anyone who labels themselves an AP actually lacking in the ability to use their intuition because they too are following a set of rules!

Sarah - posted on 02/12/2011

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Yeah! What Cathy said! lol

The best bit of advice I got when my eldest was born was from my best friend who said "Don't feel the need to take anyone else's advice........just do what you feel is right"

I wholeheartedly took that advice! I just picked and chose what I listened to, and went with a mixture of lot's of different things! :)

Sarah - posted on 02/12/2011

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You're expressing things fine Erin! (good luck with the toilet training!!)

I think AP Mum's get the "sanctimonious and judgement" label, non-AP get the "heartless and cruel" label! It DOES go both ways. Which is a real shame because as Loureen's post about the 8 principles shows, most parents are all striving for the same thing anyway. :)

Ez - posted on 02/12/2011

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Yeah I do think we're pretty much saying the same thing. I may not be expressing it that well because we're at the end of Day 2 of toilet training and singing Milla's favourite songs as a reward each time has worn me out lol.



I am also not dismissing the feelings you and others seem to have towards some AP literature and opinions. Perception is reality and all that ;) I was just trying to understand why the sanctimonious and judgemental labels are only ever pointed in one direction.

Sarah - posted on 02/12/2011

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See, that's kind of my point, we're all saying the same thing really, just in different ways.
I don't think the OP needs to throw in comments about how CIO is akin to "Leaving a paralyzed spouse alone in a room to "cry it out"--checking in every 10 minutes to say, "It's Ok"--without trying to find out what is wrong and doing something about it?"

That's what annoys me, the way *some* people feel the need to put other parenting styles down to make there's appear to be the "right" one.

If the OP had been written in a way that explained her experiences, without slamming other ways of doing it, that explained how she followed her instincts for HER child and it worked out great, then I wouldn't have a problem with it.

I also want to add that I'm not insecure about the choices I've made, that's not why I get annoyed. I get annoyed when ANY parenting style makes assumptions or comes across in a way I find to be condescending. :)

Ez - posted on 02/12/2011

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Cathy I didn't necessarily mean people in this thread were getting defensive. Just a general observation that commonly happens in this type of discussion.

And your description of following your instincts is precisely the point of this OP I think. You acted in a way that was free from any outside influence and were happy with the results. I think that's all this article is about. Once she rejected the expectations and pressures from those around her, she found a way to mother that suited her and her baby.

Sarah - posted on 02/12/2011

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You can say you're doing the right thing for your daughter Erin! Just not necessarily the right thing for mine!

Although, I get the feeling we're not SO different in our approaches now. :)

Stifler's - posted on 02/12/2011

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I think they are more MOMBIES than AP parents. Some parents of all kinds of parenting techniques impose their views on everyone as being "the right way" and are like "oh my god.. what kind of parent are YOU!?" when someone does something different to them.

Sarah - posted on 02/12/2011

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I still maintain that *some* AP parents tend to come across as sanctimonious, and that certain phrases in that article come across that way. I also know that non AP parents (if there are any after reading the 8 principles! lol) can be the same way.

I've read some posts/articles by AP parents that haven't rubbed me up the wrong way at all, but in a lot of cases, it does come across wrong somehow.

I don't know how to explain it really, I guess it just seems that when you read between the lines in these articles, it does seem to imply that by not following certain AP based things, like BF-ing and not using CIO, that you're doing something wrong.

As I said, it's not what is being said, it's the way it's said. Some people manage to talk about AP and it doesn't rub me up the wrong way, other people.........not so much! lol

Ez - posted on 02/12/2011

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Loureen, I think I just fell more in love with you :-p

There is no need for 'mainstream' (for lack of a better word) mothers to be defensive when confronted with AP philosophies if they are comfortable with their choices. My decision not to smack my 2yo is challenged quite often (both online and in RL) but it doesn't affect me because I am sure I'm doing the right thing.

So I guess my point is this.... According to some of you, I am not allowed to say I know I'm doing the right thing because that means I'm trying to tear down another mother and being sanctimonious. But the same rule doesn't apply to 'mainstream' parenting.

Charlie - posted on 02/12/2011

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That is what I mean Sarah !

We may have different methods of parenting but we follow the same principles there are no hard fast rules that say for example ' YOU MUST BREAST FEED " because I know for a fact you can bottle feed with love and respect that bonding is possible through nurturing touch while feeding I think what this article is trying to say is that most mothers aren't even given a chance to trust in their instincts before being bombarded with information on "how to " .

Sarah - posted on 02/12/2011

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Wow! Maybe I'm AP after all, because apart from the first one (I was sooooo not prepared! lol) I do ALL those things! :)

Charlie - posted on 02/12/2011

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I just wanted to add that the thing is about AP parenting that it doesn't follow set rules , it is open and flexible to each individual it just so happens that many parents follow a typical path .



It is essentially a philosophy that goes by these eight principles :



1. Preparation for Pregnancy, Birth and Parenting

2. Feed with Love and Respect

3. Respond with Sensitivity

4. Use Nurturing Touch

5. Ensure Safe Sleep, Physically and Emotionally

6. Provide Consistent Loving Care

7. Practice Positive Discipline

8. Strive for Balance in Personal and Family Life

As you can see these principles leave room for individual requirements .

Charlie - posted on 02/12/2011

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I find it interesting when people arch their backs up the minute an AP leaning article is posted for no good reason other than being offended by the terms " instinctive " , "natural" , "Peaceful parenting " ECT These are descriptive words of this type of approach it is heavily reliant on natural instincts that are peace orientated ..........



When someone says " CIO is the only way " or

" circumcision is best " or " your child will become a criminal without spanking "ect . I completely disagree but not offended because I am totally comfortable in my parenting decisions , I have complete faith in my instincts , the choices I have made based on being informed and all aspects of it's effects on my children .....

Sarah - posted on 02/12/2011

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The article itself doesn't really piss me off, what often annoys me about AP articles/literature/posts is the wording and the tone.



Phrases like "For my son's sake, I'm glad I followed those damn instincts"

This implies that HER instincts are the right ones (and for her son, and her son alone, they are) and that anyone following other instincts, is wrong.



"I felt much less stress as soon as I realized that it was OK for him to be needy, and OK for me to be responsive."

I think MOST parents are aware their child is needy and that they should be responsive, just maybe not in the same way. A different way isn't necessarily wrong.



I could go on, but you get my point! lol



Basically, what annoys me the way AP seems to imply at every turn that everyones instincts should be the same for every child. I don't believe that's true. Even between my 2 daughters, I went about things slightly differently. It implies that if you aren't following the AP style, then you're doing your child a HUGE disservice, which, quite rightly, pisses non AP parents off a bit! No-one likes to hear that someone thinks they're not doing right by the kid.



I know that non AP parents can be just as judgmental, the whole "your spoiling them" line comes out a lot. Those people are just as bad IMO. So don't think I'm taking sides!



EVERY single Mum, Dad and baby are completely different, people's instincts and ways of seeing things are different. I just think it's time we just embraced that rather than putting people down all the time.



There's no need to be sanctimonious or condescending when writing about your chosen parenting style. It is possible to state your case, or what you do, in a nice way! :)

Alyssa - posted on 02/12/2011

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Antoher AP article....Pisses me off quite frankly. Do all mums who label themselves AP really think the rest of us are leaving our kids in a room and only fulfilling their needs when we get a chance.

Yes, I have TAUGHT my children how to go to sleep. Not by leaving them to cry it out but by regular routines and a whole heap of love and attention (Which did not involve them sleeping in my bed!)

As for the demand/on cue (whatever, lets just call it.... breastfeeding!) I did that too, in my own way. Oh except for when he started going 8 hours at night because he knew how to SLEEP PROPERLY!

Nikki - posted on 02/11/2011

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I love the article, I wish I had read it a couple of years ago. It would have saved much time and sanity, fighting with everyone around me and my own instincts. It's clear that AP is not for everyone, but for me when I finally gave into my instincts everything fell into place, life became easier and I enjoyed my baby. I wish someone had told me that I already knew what to do, I just needed to listen to myself.

Ez - posted on 02/11/2011

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Rebecca, I actually fed my daughter formula too after health problems restricted my ability to BF past about 6 weeks. I realise many turn to formula out of necessity. But being on this site for the last 2 years has opened my eyes to the fact there are mothers who DO think formula is better for babies. It may be an extreme example, but it exists.



And who said anything about bringing anyone down? So speaking out for something a person believes in is unacceptable because others may take it as a personal affront? If someone says 'mothers who use CIO are mean and neglectful and shouldn't have had kids', I would absolutely agree with you. But simply voicing an opinion in opposition to a specific parenting decision or theory (CIO, circumcision, early solids etc) is not the same, and shouldn't be taken as such.



Edited to add: Ignore the formula example then and replace it with CIO. We have all seen CIO mums claiming that strict sleep training is the only way to raise a child with good sleeping habits, and that to do otherwise is harmful. I strongly disagree, and voice that opinion, but I don't take it as a slight against my mothering skills.

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