So, you don't vaccinate your kids, do you at least vaccinate your pets??

~♥Little Miss - posted on 02/27/2012 ( 123 moms have responded )

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There are so many of you that don't vaccinate your kids, I am curious if you vaccinate your pets. Also, for those of you that DO vaccinate your kids, do you also vaccinate your pets?



We are talking about things like *for dogs*



DHLP-P (distemper, hepatitis, leptosparosis, parinfluenza, parvo)

Rabies

Carona

Lymes

*edited to add Bordetella (aka kennel cough)



*cats*



Distemper

Felv (feline leukemia)

Fiv



Also, the extras like fecal exams (because intestinal parisites CAN infect your children, even some can BLIND them) flea preventative (kids can get eaten alive, AND get tapeworms if ingest a flea), heartworm tests, and preventative??? How much do you do for your pet?

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Krista - posted on 02/27/2012

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Actually 5% broken in half....so a 2.5% chance it could be major?? You're kidding me right? 2%out of 100% is scary?



So polio doesn't scare you, but the tiny, minuscule, infinitesimal chance of a negative reaction to a vaccine...that does?



You have some strange priorities, lady.



You seem to think that diseases will just go away on their own without those eeeevil vaccinations.



How about Tetanus? It's certainly not going away on its own. It's still very common among unvaccinated populations.



Do me a favour and go look at this chart: http://www.who.int/immunization_monitori...



You see how globally, the cases of tetanus have dropped, as the number of immunized people has risen?



That ain't no coincidence, schweetheart...

Kate CP - posted on 02/27/2012

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1. Cancer and AIDS are NOT a result of the fucking polio virus. Why? Cancer has been around a long time (a hell of a lot longer than polio) and HIV and AIDS are auto-immune diseases and NOTHING like polio. So...THAT'S a crock of shit.



2. Parvo used to kill 50% of puppies infected with the disease who were TREATED. Now the survival rate us closer to 70% if it's caught in time. Parvo can wipe out whole litters and lives in the soil for up to 6 months. Nothing kills the virus except bleach (so have fun bleaching your yard).



3. Distemper starts out looking like a cold and turns into a neurological disease within days. It kills and permanently maims dogs.



4. It is AGAINST THE FUCKING LAW to not vaccinate your cat or dog against rabies UNLESS they have a medical waiver. There IS no waiver for philosophical or religious exemption for vaccinating against rabies.



5. If you don't vaccinate against rabies you're a fucking retard. There. I said it. There is NO reason to not vaccinate against rabies. It lasts for up to three years or more, it will save your pet's life if they come into contact with an animal carrying the virus, and it's cheap to keep up. So, if you don't vaccinate for rabies because you don't like shots, then you're an idiot. Period.



6. If you don't vaccinate your animals because you don't like giving vaccines you're a bad pet owner. You would be violating an adoption agreement if you adopted from a rescue group or shelter. You would be endangering your animal and the animals in your area just by walking your dog.



7. As a pet training instructor I would personally give you an earful at any training session and then refund your money because I refuse to train a dog that hasn't been vaccinated.



You ever see a dog die of parvo? I have. IN MY TRAINING RING. It was horrifying! You ever see a dog suffer with distemper? I HAVE! It's heart breaking. You ever see a dog with rabies? Yes, I have...and it's some scary fuckin' shit.



Not vaccinating your kids is a personal choice, I guess, and I still think it's stupid to buy into all the hype about how "bad" vaccines are. But to not vaccinate your pets is beyond moronic. Why? The amount of research done YEARLY on animal vaccines is mind boggling. It's easier and cheaper to conduct research on animals because they're not humans. The vaccines for humans are safe. The vaccines for dogs are ALSO safe.



In my 12+ years as a pet training instructor, animal rights activist, rescue worker, behavioral specialist, kennel tech, and vet tech (briefly)...I have *N E V E R* seen a dog die from a vaccine. Some have an immediate allergic reaction and are treated with Benadryl and are fine. I have seen many a dog die from the pathogens we vaccinate against.



Spay and neuter. Vaccinate and keep them up to date on heart worm prevention YEAR ROUND. Anything less is irresponsible and, well...stupid.

Jodi - posted on 02/27/2012

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Actually, if polio became common again like it was 50 years ago, 5% is very scary. Evidently you don't know anyone who has been affected by polio from those times. I don't know about you, but I'm not interested in going back there.

[deleted account]

Polio is still very much present in our world today, and it was not "on it's way out" long before the vaccine was introduced.



The information in the article you linked is, unfortunately, very old, and most of the conclusions drawn in it have since been overturned. You cannot read up to a certain date, then stop looking at new evidence because as a society, we are always learning and discovering new things.



Even if we were to consider it, say the issue with the cats and the injection site cancer. The number of cats who develop cancer at their injection site mentioned in the article is less than 2% of the cats vaccinated in the US every year. They got around that problem by injecting in areas that can be amputated SHOULD they fall into that 2% that develop cancer, so less than .5% of those cats actually die from the cancer. Furthermore, that analysis only looked at vaccine injections as a factor, they failed to look at other skin disorders, breed, genetics, or other factors that could have effected the outcome.



Even so, far, far, more cats die each year from the diseases these vaccinations protect them from than those who die as a result of the vaccination. So in that case, the benefit far outweighs the risk.

As to children, we now know to trace back family histories in order to determine a likely hood of adverse reaction, and in cases where family history is not know, we even have testing that can be done to determine a child's risk. Unless there is a medical factor, such as family history or known aversion to certain ingredients, there is less risk of a child being harmed by the vaccination than there is of the child being harmed by the disease.

Kate CP - posted on 02/27/2012

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Another thing to consider:



Heart worm treatments are not only REALLY expensive but are also hard to come by these days. There is a major shortage of the drug(s) used to treat a severe case of heart worm infection.



An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

123 Comments

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Jennifer - posted on 02/28/2012

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Little Miss- Yes, almost thirty years in animal work has taught me a couple things. And since our shelter euthanizes felv and fiv cats as a matter of course, they do take it pretty serious. Many shelters have started to adopted them out. All my pets have been altered, except my reptiles. My Dobe finished his titles before being altered, though.



I read through some of this late last night, so forgive me, I don't remember who said it, but I was really disturbed- A trainer had a parvo dog die in in class?? How do you miss that?? The massive dehydration? The weakness? The over powering smell? I saw my first parvo dog at 8, have dealt with it more times than I care to remember, had pups die in my hand from it. It still wipes out up to 35% of the dogs around here. Don't know how it could be missed......



Distemper is not seen around here much. I've seen two cases, both being in Raccoons. Boren Vet Hospital, OSU's vet teaching hospital, still deals with it some, but most vets here will tell you that they don't even know what to look for.



Rabies is also very rare, though, I have seen it in skunks. It is still illegal to own bats, as they are the number 1 carrier, but the state recently repealled the ban against skunks as pets. Rabies fears have dropped that far. I have been vaccinated against it, as I was bit by a bat when I was very young. That is not something I'd wish on my worst enemy!



Interestingly enough, it was my involvment with animals that led to me questioning vaccinations in the first place. Vets are in a position to see many generations of their patients in a short time. Many, many, many question all aspects of the medicine they give and teach.



People who deny that vaccinations have any place, and have done no good, though, are quite frankly batty! There is no doubt they have saved lives, and continue to do so. BUT those who think the blessed vaccines are perfect and should be the end of the discussion are also denying the truth. It was not long ago that antibotics where considered the last medicine we would ever need, now we are finding out otherwise. People tend to forget that science is nothing but a series of questions. Things that are proven are not always true. We have to keep questioning if we intend to keep finding. We still have a llllooonnggg way to go.



Everyone that has stated opionion here, is actually very lucky to even be debating this issue. We all live in our clean little houses, in our safe little towns, with hospitals within a reasonable distance. We feel safe in fighting over these little piddlly things like flouride in the water and genetically altered foods(other things I question heavily) We tend to forget that there are moms out there that loose kids to hunger and dirty water EVERYDAY. Please, state why you question something, or why you believe it is the best thing ever, but don't forget that a dying child could be saved with what you are tossing away!

Kate CP - posted on 02/28/2012

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Mosquitoes can come in the house, people. I've met many an "indoor only" cat or dog who've turned up positive for heart worms.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 02/28/2012

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Jennifer~ I am hoping you keep your FeLv positive cats indoors? And of course do not introduce any FeLv NEGATIVE cats into your home. I am sure you know that though.



Edited to add* Also spayed and neutered so they do not pass it along to offspring?

Jodi - posted on 02/27/2012

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"Actually 5% broken in half....so a 2.5% chance it could be major?? You're kidding me right? 2%out of 100% is scary? "



Actually even 2.5% of all those contracting what was a relatively common virus at the time IS concerning. That's a fairly large number of people suffering from a permanently debilitating disease, or possibly dying. 2.5% isn't an acceptable rate either. A vaccine is less risk. I would rather risk the vaccine than risk the disease EVER becoming commonplace again. Not only for my own children, but for those who can't be vaccinated too.

[deleted account]

i vaccinate my kid, lol. my dog is up to date as far as i know (we adopted her last June and she couldn't leave the shelter til she had all her vaccinations) but my cat needs his boosters. he's an inside cat with no contact with other cats so there's not as high a risk but when we get the money we will be getting him up-to-date. it's a lot easier to vaccinate my daughter since she's covered by the state and insurance and such, but not exactly easy to say for pets.



i want my children safe and if that means also vaccinating my pets against common contagious illnesses that can be passed to humans then of course i'm going to vaccinate.

Mrs. - posted on 02/27/2012

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I'm sorry, but that is cruel if you don't vac your dog for rabies and pretty f'd up for anyone who might come in contact with your infected dog.



I don't get it...I really don't.



Of course, I get my dog vac'd. I'm not always exactly on time, but I do my best to keep her from getting some horrible, deathly disease.



I don't do heart worm because my dog is barely an outside dog.

Jennifer - posted on 02/27/2012

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Rabies is required by law here. Use to do the three year vac, but it has to be yearly now. I do not do DHLP-P as a matter of course. I do give two parvo single vac at 10 and 12 weeks. After that, I give titer test, usually every two years, but my Dobe I test yearly. Fecal exams are done yearly, with the rabies, at least. If I notice something off, I'll run a sample by to be looked at. I use flea and tick preventative, but not chemicals.



My cats are rescues, and are all already Felv positive. The shelter usually euthanizes them, but since I work there I can take them.



My snakes and turtles, by the way, also see the vet yearly. They get fecals, ect.......My ferrets and bunnies alway lived to old ages. The only 'pets' I have that don't meet or exceed life expectancy are my mice.



I don't know why people feel that not vaccinating means I do not get medical care for my kids(or pets). My kids doctor is very happy with the care my kids recieve, my vet is happy with the care my pets recieve. Actually, my vet is beyoned thrilled that my pets live as long as they do. I lost two cats a couple years ago, 19 and 22, and yes, felv pos.

[deleted account]

WOW! I'm not reading 6 pages of comments but wanted to say that yes, I vaccinate my son and my pets get their yearly shots as well. The only difference is that my son's are always up to date and my cats....well sometimes it's a month past by the time I remember lol But they do get them. Also, we don't do the flu vaccine because several years ago I read an article about how the vaccines they would give this season were derived from flu strains from several years ago, so getting a vaccine for a flu that isn't going around (or has mutated) is a moot point, IMO. I don't hold it against anyone or judge in any way to those who do get the flu vaccine. I just choose not to.



Edit: Also, for fleas (even though they are indoor cats), I use the Advantage drops. However, since we don't have fleas and they don't go outside, I only do it 3 times per year. Usually, I'll buy a 6 pack from the vet and it'll last us a year between two cats.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 02/27/2012

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Jacki, glad to hear you are going to be able to use some of the important information regarding the health of your animals. It is great when the proper information is passed along. Any time you have any questions about animals, feel free to ask.

**Jackie** - posted on 02/27/2012

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Thanks for the info ladies! Very interesting thread! This came at a very good time because the husband and I are thinking about getting a dog :)

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 02/27/2012

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I vaccinate my animals, I get them from the SPCA and it is mandatory. We got our dog from there too, she was born there. We had to vaccinate or we couldn't take her home. However, we would've anyway. I am all for healthy animals and people! I don't want any nasty disease coming back and living in my families body that could've been prevented by me being responsible... Just how I see it...



Hell, my DH and I were just vaccinated with tdap last month... It has pertussis vaccine in it and that was highly important to me with a baby.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 02/27/2012

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Definitely! Any time, just wanted to make sure the good side of preventative gets out.

Amy - posted on 02/27/2012

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Thank you for the information Little Miss, I will definitely look into in the future and will probably use it when and if we decide to get another dog.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 02/27/2012

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I am just a huge advocate for heartworm protection. I have seen so many does die from it, and die from the treatment. It is awful. Treatment is actually pretty simple, but recovery is really hard. They have to be confined to a cage in order not to throw a stroke from the dying heartworms in their blood stream. This is a 6 week or more treatment, 2 actual doses, and very expensive. Also, you have to take x rays before and after to see how enlarged the heart is, and if they have migrated to the lungs.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 02/27/2012

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Amy, gonna give you a good reason to do heartworm preventative. Yup your pup is old, but still goes outside. Think of you going outside for 5 minutes during mosquito season (or if you are not one that mosquitoes like, think of someone else) and think of how many times a person can get bit by mosquitoes in 5 minutes. Heartworms are passed through mosquito bites. So really any amount of time for your pet to be outside when mosquitoes are around is a great reason to do preventative. Also, it protects against intestinal parasites. The dirt can have feces from a random animal on it, and your pet licks his/her feet...bam....got worms?

Johnny - posted on 02/27/2012

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We vaccinate our cats. Our vetrinarian modified the schedule slightly as they are indoor cats. They were both feral rescue cats and the organization they come from insists that they be kept indoors. The only outside time they are supposed to have is on our balcony. I do have them vaccinated because they occasionally sneak into the backyard. We have been fortunate in that flea prevention has not been necessary.



When I was a kid my dog died of kennel cough before there was a vaccine. It saddens me to think that people would choose to allow this to happen to their pet. To me, it is simply animal cruelty by proxy.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 02/27/2012

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Actually, my name is "Little Miss Can't be Wrong" I would appreciate you using it properly, or that is a THUMP. And secondly, all of everything you have posted concerning Polio is clearly a hypothesis. It is a guess, a scientific guess, that has been proven wrong. Did you read MY link I posted??

Lady Heather - posted on 02/27/2012

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We do everything the vet recommends. Fleas don't even exist here so we don't have to worry about that.

Merry - posted on 02/27/2012

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I have done some more thinkingn and I've decided that I'll likely continue to vaccinate my pets as directed. I think the reason pets are getting crappy human diseases is because we feed them crappy corn crap food.

We can do extensive studies on animals so I do trust the vaccines are safer for pets then they are for humans. And unfortunately, like Elfraida, in the end if my dog dies from a shot I'd be devastated but it would not even compare to if my child died from a shot.

Kate, you always know how to resent yourself in a non offensive way :)

Oh and I agree. Annie's is not something to screw around with. Risks or no risks, my pets get their rabies shot as per the law and my common sense dictates.

Amy - posted on 02/27/2012

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My dog is vaccinated and so our my kids. I don't do a monthly heartworm treatment, I don't have a good reason for not doing it. My dogs almost 15 years old and spends most of her time inside, she's only outside when we are.

Mother - posted on 02/27/2012

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Well Little Miss Can't Be Right...the quotes don't lie. You can deny it but it just makes you look silly.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 02/27/2012

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SMH......Seriously, how can you think you can refute ANY of this????? And back to animals, why is it that you don't vaccinate again??? LOL.....your animal theory is also full of huge wholes. And, nope never brought up cancer in humans. We were discussing cancer in cats caused by certain vaccinations and how they changed injection site locations (just incase cancer DOES happen, they can amputate) and fixed vaccinations. So, lets get this back on track. Back to why you REALLY would not vaccinate your animals, but will put pesticides on their backs to kill fleas and ticks, once again like I said exposing your children monthly to that.

Kate CP - posted on 02/27/2012

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"Cancer and AIDS are NOT a result of the fucking polio virus. Why? Cancer has been around a long time (a hell of a lot longer than polio) and HIV and AIDS are auto-immune diseases and NOTHING like polio. So...THAT'S a crock of shit." -- Au contrare.



Well, I guess I'll just take your word for it then.



I would love to believe you, Kelly, but I just don't trust anything a person pulls out of their ass and polishes it up all nice and purdy and calls it a nugget of gold.

Mother - posted on 02/27/2012

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"Cancer and AIDS are NOT a result of the fucking polio virus. Why? Cancer has been around a long time (a hell of a lot longer than polio) and HIV and AIDS are auto-immune diseases and NOTHING like polio. So...THAT'S a crock of shit." -- Au contrare.

Mother - posted on 02/27/2012

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Little Miss Thang posted "Or what if there was a vaccination to cure cancer or AIDS? How would you feel about THAT! "



Kelly Bacher posted "Funny you should bring up AIDS and Cancer while we are talking about Polio. Considering Polio is believed to have caused these very conditions because of cross contamination of DNA from the Chimps being used. While it is still not know if the SV40 is life threatening it is being found in tumours and at injection sites of HUMANS. AIDS is believed to be connected to the simian virus SIV which the monkeys were infected with when the polio virus was created and distributed in the Congo."



Little Miss Thang Posted "I would appreciate it if you could provide the links that you are getting your information from."





And so began the flurry of posts.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 02/27/2012

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Oh, and I never asked for proof about cancer being caused, we were discussing AIDS, I think you just messed up giving the wrong information. you were trying to prove AIDS correlation...then you switched it to cancer. Peace out, got family time.

Merry - posted on 02/27/2012

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Yeah my pets have been vaccinated for rabies and distemper and feline leukemia I think, idk I never looked into it much. :) blind trust in my vet

~♥Little Miss - posted on 02/27/2012

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Nope, said clearly COULD have....there is not proof. Not in one article that I have read. And, I am tired of going in circles with you, that is why I want to get back to the op. Thank you very much.



You have not given me PROOF, you have given me hypothesis.

Mother - posted on 02/27/2012

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Well....the thread might be but you specifically asked for proof about the Cancer and AIDS being a result of the polio virus....so I produced it.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 02/27/2012

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Dish what out?? And take what? I have not name called. You don't like this thread, leave. I am tired of you derailing it. This is about why or why not you would not vaccinate or would vaccinate your animals. Walk out.

Mother - posted on 02/27/2012

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Tonya, thanks for our little go round of battle of the wits....but next time....could you please come armed.

Mother - posted on 02/27/2012

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Ohhhhhhh....you can dish it but you can't take it. I see how it is. I just thought I'd give you something CHEW ON. And I'm just getting started. I don't like you insinuating that I don't look after or protect my kids either that didn't stop you from blathering on now did it. Can't take the heat Little miss Thing....then I suggest you stay outta this kitchen.

Mabel - posted on 02/27/2012

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Oh she finally found her copy and paste buttons! Did you miss my sarcasm too?

~♥Little Miss - posted on 02/27/2012

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I do not appreciate your name calling, and insinuating something about my intelligence. Links are easier, but if that is to difficult for you, don't post from them.

Mother - posted on 02/27/2012

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Oh sorry Tonya, I didn't see your post....I guess you missed my sarcasm.

Mother - posted on 02/27/2012

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Actually 5% broken in half....so a 2.5% chance it could be major?? You're kidding me right? 2%out of 100% is scary?

~♥Little Miss - posted on 02/27/2012

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WAY out dated information...I bet you still think autism is linked to vaccinations.

Mother - posted on 02/27/2012

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Butel, J. S., and J.A. Lednicky. "Cell and Molecular Biology of Simian Virus 40: Implications for human Infections and disease." Journal of the National Cancer Institute 91, no2 (January 20 1999): 119-34

~♥Little Miss - posted on 02/27/2012

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AND YOUR INFORMATION IS OLD! Dude, find some new information that backs it up. I have been researching it for some time right now, and ALL the information that SUPPORTS that theory is from the 90's. HELLO! It is 2012.

Mother - posted on 02/27/2012

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Fisher, S.G, L. Weber and M Carbone.

"Cancer Risk Associated with simian virus 40 Contaminated Polio Vaccine"

Anticancer Research 19, no. 3B (May-June 1999) : 2173-80

Mabel - posted on 02/27/2012

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You are very welcome.I have always have one animal or another and I was the one that paid for those shots whether by chores or a job.It was my responsibility to keep my pets in good health if I had one, same for my kid.

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