spanking in schools

Rosie - posted on 07/24/2011 ( 177 moms have responded )

8,657

30

321

in these discussions about spankings i have found out that at least 20 states in the united states allow corporal punishment in school. do you agree with this or not? would you sign a permission slip to have your child spanked in school?

i obviously think it's ridiculous. In fact, school systems with the highest rates of corporal punishment are the worst-performing, children who are the most punished are the most troubled and difficult to manage, and there is not one accredited college in the United States that instructs future educators in the proper method for hitting children. Documented research shows a correlation between school corporal punishment and certain negative social outcomes. States that have the highest rates of school paddling also have the lowest graduation rates, the highest rates of teen pregnancy, the highest incarceration rates and the highest murder rateshttp://www.nospank.net/correlationstudy....

i also found this, and i gotta say, anybody who allows this to happen to their child is fucked up. WARNING VERY GRAPHIC. http://www.nospank.net/violatn.htm
why is this legal??.

MOST HELPFUL POSTS

Charlie - posted on 07/25/2011

11,203

111

409

Well I was "caned" in kindergarden daily because the boy next to me liked o sharpen his pencil and stab me with it, when I would cry out in pain the teacher ( who had a fetish for little boys ) would take me and belt me over the ass with a metre ruler for crying over the stabbing until I finally came home with an ass that looked like the photos above covered in my own piss because I was terrified. They didnt need permission back then they just did , I was lucky enough to have a father who actually gave a shit about me enough to march into that school and make sure that man never laid a hand on me again .

This is the point the parents dont know the teacher , they dont know their reasoning , they dont know how "guilty" a child is ........what was done to me and to those children in the photos reguardless of reason is fucked up , abusive and heinous.

When you allow them all to have this power , you allow them ALL and as a teacher , a parent and a person I stand by my statement that ANY teacher who can do this to another persons child has no place in a school.

Jodi - posted on 07/24/2011

3,562

36

3907

It disgusts me that ANY parent would give permission for their child to be hit with ANY implement. I don't care whether you think it leaves bruises or not, how the fuck would you know?



It is illegal here, even as a parent, because it is CHILD ABUSE pure and simple. I can't even begin to imagine the type of parent who would even DREAM of allowing someone else to do it to their kid. Makes me sick that a parent will give permission for a school to abuse their child. Yes, ABUSE. Paddling a child is outright abuse.

Jenni - posted on 07/26/2011

5,928

34

393

"Children at that age do not have the mental tools with which to distinguish between being abused & being punished. Believe me there is a great deal of difference between the two!"

And often times the parents can't distinguish between the two either. That is my main concern. I have seen many parents who advocate spanking who have no clue when they have crossed the line. Who have their child's best interest at heart.

The only person that can define abuse is the person being abused.

My parents didn't think they were abusing me. I felt they were as a child, and I still believe they did as an adult.

Jenni - posted on 07/26/2011

5,928

34

393

Dodie,



Yes, instilling fear into children does work miracles into forcing obedience out of children. If someone who had complete authority over me said they were going to hit me everytime I did something they didn't like...



I'd probably comply for fear of physical/emotional pain. Or if I had a strong personality I would probably rebel against the person who is disrespecting my body/mind.



If I was a trusting, innocent child being told by an adult that if I was bad some magic man in the sky was going to punish me by burning me infinitely, I'd probably do everything possible to prevent that from happening to me.



It seems to have worked on your sweet-natured little girl until she learned that it is not the norm and against the law. That you have no right to take away her right to bodily integrity. That the ill feelings your punishments gave her was confirmed by other adults as being wrong. That she was *gasp* allowed to stand up for herself and tell you, you have no right to invade my body space. Good for her! And how do you respond?

You want to make a bet on that? *smack* *smack*



I can just imagine an abused wife coming home and telling her husband, "I've had enough! I deserve respect! If you raise a hand to me again, I am calling the cops!"

Just to have him beat her into submission again.



Spanking your child is illegal in your country? It is considered abuse? You risk losing your children, your foster mother status... yet you still advocate that it is not and break the law?



Even in areas where spanking is legal, I'm pretty certain you are ONLY allowed to use it on your own children, not foster kids. If you were found out, they would strip that status off you faster than you can flick a switch. And they'd be right to do it. You have no right to hit your foster kids, especially in a country where it is illegal to hit any your own children. If you can't handle being a foster parent without hitting the children in your care, perpetuating the abuse their parents used. Then it isn't the job for you.



How ironic, really? Where you live, it could be very likely the children were removed from the parents because their parents hit them.... just to be placed in another household where they are hit.



If your daughter has anger/resentment about being spanked now, you don't think it's possible those feelings will be carried into adulthood? That she is currently resenting you for punishing her in that way. And only obedient out of fear of your retribution? So what happens when you're not around to spank her?



Again, where you live... you said.. it's against the law. It is against the law because it is abuse. You ARE condoning abuse in your country.



And you have not even the slightest clue how any of us parent. You think all we do is replace spanking with yelling? Yelling IS just as damaging. And I wouldn't say more. It is the same as hitting. There are varying degrees of it.



Do I think a parent who spanks as a last resort is doing damage to their child? probably not that much.

Do I think if a parent loses their temper and yells or raises their voice the odd time it's doing damage to their child?

Probably not that much.



But the problem with both these behaviours is the line between what is abuse and what isn't is very fine, difficult to define and highly subjective. Something I wouldn't want to tamper with at all. I think there are many parents out there who cross that line whilst thinking they are merely disciplining their children and doing what's best for them.



I do not replace spanking with timeouts and yelling. I am a logic and love parent. I do not expect blind obedience from my children because they fear me. I teach them *how* to make positive choices because they reap positive results. I teach them through trust and mutual respect. I give them a voice and I do not squash their opinions and spirits.



I treat my children like human beings, deserving of the same respect that any other human being deserves. Not like wild horses that need to be broken in and forced to submit through physical punishment. So I certainly wouldn't want some random adult abusing their bodies.

Jodi - posted on 07/26/2011

3,562

36

3907

@ Dodie



You keep pointing out that people should read your posts properly.



Can I just suggest that you put some paragraph breaks in your posts, because they are actually VERY difficult to read? So if people are missing all these things you seem to think they are missing, it *could* have something to do with that.



Either way, they are really hard to read, and I think you will find most people will agree. I am not saying this to be nasty, just pointing it out to you.

177 Comments

View replies by

Krista - posted on 08/26/2011

12,562

16

847

good for your dad, Michelle! He rocks! And man, that teacher was quite a piece of work, right? Hauling down a first grader's underwear in front of everybody and spanking her for forgetting homework? That's frigging sick.

Julie - posted on 08/26/2011

973

44

41

When I enrolled my kids, I had to sign whether or not they could be spanked. I've heard of them using Saturday school, detention, suspension, but have never heard of anyone getting swats at school. I'm sure none of the teachers are comfortable with swatting the kids these days. It was no big deal when I went to school, at least to the teachers it seemed.

Michelle - posted on 08/25/2011

70

12

2

Thank you! Yes, Becky, he is. Im lucky to not only still have him, but my mom too...and they're both still together. They celebrate their 50th next year.

Michelle - posted on 08/24/2011

70

12

2

My parents spanked when I was little...but when I started school in 71, they had their lawyer draw up a writ stating that under no circumstances was ANY school official to spank, pop, or strike me (or my sisters.) Their position was if I was misbehaving so badly it warranted pops, then my parents should have been notified a LONG time ago. My first grade teacher pooh poohed that..and when I forgot my homework one day, she dragged me to an empty 5th grade classroom, did NOT close the door, pulled up my skirt, pulled down my panties, and spanked my bottom, in full view of the 5th graders walking by on their way to lunch. I told my dad when I got home, and that next day, when he got off work, he stormed into her class and demanded to talk to her. (Im 46 and I remember this like it was yesterday...right down to what he was wearing.) She got all uppity and said, Mr Clark, I have conference times. Please respect that. And she turned. her. back. on my DAD! He stepped forward and said, "Woman, you best get your ass out in the hallway or Ill drag you out by your hair. Why in the hell should I respect your conference times, when you disrespected us by totally ignoring a letter from our lawyer?" She went out in the hall, and I heard my dad say, "If you EVER lay ONE hand on my daughter again, I will not only sue you personally, but this school, and this district. This school will be the Donald W Clark Elementary school...NOT Atkinson Elementary. Do you understand me?!" I remember one student going, "Who's dad is THAT?" And I said, "Mine."
(To this day, I think that's why guys were afraid to ask me out all through school..)
But no....its not a teachers place to spank..and its an invasion of privacy for them to ask a child if he/she is spanked. Unless there are signs of abuse--bruises, cuts, other injuries--then teachers need to concentrate on teaching. Esp in Texas. Our public schools are HORRIBLE. And there is corporal punishment in Texas..and the parents have to order the school to abstain.
I spanked my daughter--with my hand, on her butt, only..and her last spanking was when she was in the 2nd grade, back in, I think, 2004. My daughters private school does not utilize corporal punishment..which is yet another reason my kid goes to private school.

[deleted account]

I have been a teacher for over 10 years, and have NEVER seen a child spanked in school. The last school spanking I knew of was when I was in elementary school myself (catholic). I have spanked my own children when they were much much younger, but not in years. After a certain age, spanking (actually just a swat on the butt), is in my opinion not very beneficial.

Becky - posted on 08/23/2011

2,892

44

93

It's not even legal to spank a teenager here!
And I for one, would choose a spanking over detention or grounding or some other similar punishment. A spanking stings, but then it's over. Detention means time away from my friends and activities I want to do! Much more of a punishment than a quick paddling, if you ask me! (or your average teen, I'd imagine!) The kids probably walk away laughing that they got off easy while some other poor saps are sitting in detention all week. So yeah, I don't see that as effective!

Bridget - posted on 08/23/2011

298

22

28

I just read Jodi's comment about the fact that the students are asking to be paddled. How can the method be effective if the kids are asking for it. that just makes no sense to me. Thats a good thought Jodi :)

Bridget - posted on 08/23/2011

298

22

28

I don't see why it matters what their ages are its still wrong what these schools are doing. And i turned 18 november if my senior year so thats not always true high school kids can be 18 or 19 depending on when they started school or if they had to repeat a grade.

Jodi - posted on 08/23/2011

3,562

36

3907

If the kids are opting for corporal punishment, then one really must question if it is actually being effective in the way it is intended.......

Jay - posted on 08/23/2011

19

0

37

Ya I think I remember something like that.. They were teens who had the choice between getting paddled or having detention? Is that right?
But I mean teenagers are not children and I think they were like 18/19 so adults really.. Children don't fully understand things like that, especially not before at least 7 years of age.x

Jay - posted on 08/23/2011

19

0

37

@ Sherri,
I saw that show, It was broadcast in Ireland. They were like teenagers/adults who were getting paddled?!?!
How humiliating? If a teacher tried to spank me at that age I would have been expelled for beating them with the paddle!! :O x

Jay - posted on 08/23/2011

19

0

37

I would never spank my child, I don't agree with it. So I would not expect anyone else to spank my child, and if they did I would knock them out! :P xx

Kate CP - posted on 08/22/2011

8,942

36

758

Alison: Oh yea, they'll do it if you give them permission to. I think in Texas there are a few school districts that may not even require permission (heard that rumor somewhere so don't quote me on it).

Alison - posted on 08/21/2011

279

20

32

And no, I wouldn't sign the permission slip. I try not to spank my children and I certainly wouldn't give someone else permission to.

Alison - posted on 08/21/2011

279

20

32

In the "paddling" states, do the schools actually exercise their right to spank children? I ask because apparently Idaho allows this but I went to public school in Idaho K-12 and I was never spanked or heard of any other child being spanked in school.

Sal - posted on 08/21/2011

1,816

16

34

oh kp any debate on here turns to god.....i am amazed what god can get into......never fails to amaze me..

Cyndel - posted on 08/21/2011

754

24

54

Ummmm, I'm for spanking in certain rare situations...but no one but my husband or I do it and it NEVER causes bruising!! Bruising is abuse! That is sick! I would report anyone for abuse who spanked a child till bruised!

Bridget - posted on 08/21/2011

298

22

28

All i have to say is after taking a look at those pictures that is down right abuse! If that happened to a child at home and a teacher saw that they would be calling CPS so fast it would make your head spin. I think it is wrong to allow spanking in schools it doesn't teach a child anything but to be afraid of the teachers also i think that it is giving children the impression that school is a scary and unsafe place to be and that is wrong it should be a safe place for them to go and get educated not beaten.

Kate CP - posted on 08/21/2011

8,942

36

758

Because EVERY post about spanking turns into a post about God because some nincompoop thinks it's written in the bible to beat the hell out of your kids with a shepherd's hook or something. :P

Gina - posted on 08/21/2011

388

6

12

Why did this post become about God? I don't think any God would want a child to be spanked like this. I have strong faith but if someone was to tell me God's word was to spank a child so hard that their ass is black and blue. I would be thinking very seriously about what I believe.

Shit why do people do things then hide behind God. Thier God said to spank like this,What kind of God do they worship?

Maggie - posted on 08/19/2011

818

24

47

If for some reason I had allowed my child to recieve that type of punishment at school, which I wouldn't, and he came home with BRUISES you can bet I'd be at the school to find out why. If they couldn't give a satisfactory answer as to why it's ok for them to paddle him and leave marks then I'd for sure take it farther. There is NO reason they should be hitting a child that hard. It's disgusting. It's wrong. It's disturbing. The people who do this to children are on a serious power trip and need to be stopped.

Sam - posted on 08/18/2011

221

0

29

I live in Canada and when I was in elementary school if kids got sent to the principals office so many times or did something really bad they got the strap across the palm of their hand. For some kids they behaved simply because they were scared to get the strap and other kids didn't really care if they got it or not. I don't think that I would let anyone disipline my kids like that. But my kids behave in school so who knows how I would feel if they were always getting into trouble, maybe in that case I would let them get their butt paddled just to teach them that they can not behave that way.

Jodi - posted on 08/14/2011

3,562

36

3907

Yes, I'd figured that :P



I thought, however, maybe it was something to do with our children praying BEFORE they get hit with that rod God supposedly gave us to beat our children with.

Rosie - posted on 08/14/2011

8,657

30

321

because jodi, if you aren't a god loving person, who doesn't hit your kids, your children will grow up to be hoodlums. didn't you know that not spanking is the whole reason why society is the way it is?? even though statistics and study's say otherwise....

[deleted account]

That poem is disgusting. I believe i can speak for most of the opposing ladies here when i say, we ARE very tolerant of others beliefs or lack of. What we are NOT tolerant of is specific religions being crammed down our throats. You believe in whatever YOU want. Just don't force others to be exposed to it. Government buildings and public schools are PUBLIC places, people of all various religions can be present in these places at any given time. How would you like if you went to school and were forced too listen to Muslim or other prayers everyday. Not to much i bet.

Jodi - posted on 08/14/2011

3,562

36

3907

What has praying in school got to do with spanking in schools anyway?

Krista - posted on 08/14/2011

12,562

16

847

You're right, Sherri. I thought Bibles were still used.

They ARE still used in Presidential inaugurations, however. They're not required, mind you. But they are customary.

So my point does kind of still stand. People like Katrina are spazzing out about religion being excised from government, when in reality, there is still PLENTY of religion in the U.S. government. There is absolutely no ban on Presidents swearing in on the Bible. And as of late, despite there being no religious test for office, a candidate does not have a hope in hell of getting elected if he or she is not sufficiently Christian.

I guess I just tired of the wails of persecution, when in reality, all that people want is for Christians in society to be treated no differently than anybody else.

[deleted account]

Who's taking over England now? MANY of the local churches to me are some denomination of Christianity, the ones that aren't are mosques or what not and why shouldn't other religions be able to have their religious building to worship their God?

ALL the local schools to me still have morning christian prayers and they are NOT all Christian schools, they ALL teach Christianity alongside other religions, which is how it should be.

Christianity is by far the most predominant religion in the UK, the others are still minority groups, your posts to me scream of intolerance for other religions, the ladies who have responded to you may not be Christians but they are VERY tolerant of many of us.

I am Christian and have NEVER had an issue with our religion being pushed out, sometimes we need to remember that the world does not revolve around us and others do have different beliefs that doesn't mean ours are any less valid!

Krista - posted on 08/14/2011

12,562

16

847

Sigh....

then why is it unacceptable for Christian's to pray in school, but for Muslim student's its acceptable.

It is perfectly legal and acceptable for Christians to pray in school. They can pray to their little hearts' content. However, the school cannot officially lead prayer.

Why are Christian views no longer taught in schools as an alternative?

As an alternative to what? Science? That would be because it's NOT an alternative to science any more than Buddhism is an alternative to math. Christian views are still taught in comparative religion courses, however, which is precisely where they belong.

Our constitution gives us the right to practice any form of religion we want as long as it does not cause harm to others. Why are signs of Christianity being banned from government buildings?

Why does practicing your religion have to entail putting things up in government buildings? Do you really need those outward baubles in order to be able to practice your faith? Is your faith that weak that it is threatened by not being able to have a big cross in the town courthouse? (Oh, and to note, signs of Christianity obviously can't be THAT unwelcome in government buildings. Been to a trial, or a swearing-in ceremony lately? Happen to see what particular book people swear oaths upon?

Separation of church and state means that the state cannot dictate anyone's religious beliefs, not that religious beliefs cannot be expressed on government property.

The 1st amendment says that there shall be no government establishment of religion. In other words, no official government religion. So how does that jive with having Christian trappings all over every government/state edifice or property?

Rosie - posted on 08/14/2011

8,657

30

321

it's not the only one banned-all religions are. with christianity being definitely the one that creeps it's ugly little head into situations that it shouldn't be in-waaay more than others.

as for that website, what am i supposed to be looking for? i do know that walid shoebats claims that he was a terrorist were never validated. and if you REALLY think about it, why on earth would the united states allow a terrorist to become a citizen and live here?

Katrina - posted on 08/14/2011

212

40

28

Cathy, I don't read tabloids, and yes there are some sections where Sharia law is in effect.

Katrina - posted on 08/14/2011

212

40

28

I never said that Christianity should be the only one recognized by the government. I said that it should not be the only one banned by the government. Here is a site to check out. http://www.shoebat.com/

Rosie - posted on 08/14/2011

8,657

30

321

lmao!! give me links to where sharia law is implemented in government run places in the united states.
who's angry? frustrated with lack of information on other peoples parts, maybe, but angry? you do realize it's not illegal to pray in school. i did it, i saw others doing it.

i wonder why you have to have your religion be the only one recognized by the government though. i don't understand that way of thinking, can you please explain why you think that's a good or LEGAL idea?

Katrina - posted on 08/14/2011

212

40

28

wow, for people who are so tolerant of other's beliefs, these are some very angry remarks. BTW, there are already area's in our country where Sharia law is in effect & superceeds our governments laws. Its not only this country they are attempting to take over. They have been very successful in England and France. Do some research

Rosie - posted on 08/14/2011

8,657

30

321

it not unacceptable for christians to pray in school. people can do whatever the hell they want, just as long as it's not led by any teacher or school official. because why?? obviously it's because our constitution gives us the right to practice any religion we want to, as WELL as protecting other people from having your religion be made into law. you can tweak and fiddle with the meaning of seperation of church and state all you want, doesn't mean you're right. it is illegal for one religion to have presidence over any other in government run places. or would you like to have islam be the main religion of the government, and have to adhere to it's rules. hope you don't like pork chops or a nice hair style every now and then....

Katrina - posted on 08/14/2011

212

40

28

then why is it unacceptable for Christian's to pray in school, but for Muslim student's its acceptable. Why are Christian views no longer taught in schools as an alternative? Our constitution gives us the right to practice any form of religion we want as long as it does not cause harm to others. Why are signs of Christianity being banned from government buildings? Separation of church and state means that the state cannot dictate anyone's religious beliefs, not that religious beliefs cannot be expressed on government property. Our country was founded on Biblical principles of Christian, but now there are a few who are trying to remove God from all aspects of public life.

Krista - posted on 08/14/2011

12,562

16

847

Oh, horseshit. Christian beliefs are absolutely acceptable. The problem is when Christians try to impose their beliefs on everybody else. People then push back, and the Christians whine that they're being persecuted and that others aren't being tolerant.

NOBODY is stopping any Christian from living life according to their beliefs.

Katrina - posted on 08/14/2011

212

40

28

Dodie, I have read that poem before, and find it sad how truthful it is. I do not find it intolerant of other's belief's but instead it points out how intolerent people are of my beliefs. The bottom line of this poem is that anything is acceptable, unless you are an openly, practicing Christian. All other beliefs are accepted.

Sarah - posted on 08/14/2011

102

39

14

I'm not against spanking but no when else will be placing there hands on my child or I'll be going corporal punishment on their ass

Tara - posted on 08/13/2011

2,567

14

114

@Dodie,
That poem was offensive to me, I find your lack of tolerance of others religions, beliefs and opinions smacks of the indoctrination of the hard right. You have clearly been led to believe that your way is the ONLY way and all other ways are harmful to you and your soul.
For some reason you have also been led to believe that imposing your will and your beliefs on others is a respectable and admirable trait. Even when it requires physical force to accomplish the goal.

I doubt you will find many supporters of your dogmatic and archaic opinions. I also doubt you will find many people especially women that support your view of women. To me your view point is skewed and supports the misogynistic beliefs held by too many hard right Christians. Your lack of respect for women as thinking beings is palatable in your posts. You have been oppressed and are continuing that oppression in how you present yourself to the world.
Carry on Dear Dodi. You may be someone's nana, but you sure as hell aren't mine or my kids.

Hayley - posted on 08/13/2011

35

0

2

I dont smack my kids...I dont need to . I use the time out method (very rarely) So I wouldn't want them smacked in school.

[deleted account]

I guess when you sign your own posts with .
Nana/Dodie you are trying to stamp your ( Ala eric cartman) "AuthortaH" right ?

You mere mommies have nothin' on a nana !

Jodi - posted on 07/28/2011

3,562

36

3907

"lthough, critisizing someones paragraph structures was not one of those types of critiques I was seeking! Rather silly, I thought."

Dodie, I was merely suggesting a way for you to be better understood, and for people to be more likely to read your posts. But evidently, your way is better, so I'll leave you to it. After all, we wouldn't want you to "think outside the box" and open up your mind a little to what someone else had to say constructively, would we? How very "silly" of me to even suggest such a thing :\

Join Circle of Moms

Sign up for Circle of Moms and be a part of this community! Membership is just one click away.

Join Circle of Moms