Stroller wars: Seniors vs Babies

Katherine - posted on 08/02/2011 ( 176 moms have responded )

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http://blogs.babble.com/strollerderby/20...


Riddle me this: for whom would you be more inclined to give up a seat on the bus? A stroller-less mom trying to juggle two children or a senior citizen?

A police incident out of Halifax describes how officers were called to settle a fight between six mothers and a bus driver who refused to drive after the moms wouldn’t collapse their strollers. They chose instead to stand with the strollers folding up the seats at the front of the bus reserved for seniors.

The moms ranged in age from 17 to 25 and had a total of four babies and several toddlers. 24-year-old Mandy Fitzgerald told the Halifax Chronicle-Herald newspaper the bus driver didn’t take kindly to the moms’ me-first attitude, telling the women, ”You can’t do what you want on my bus, this is my office.”

And get this… Four police cruisers AND transit officials surrounded the bus and created a big traffic mess for more than an hour while they dealt with the “standoff”.

As The Vancouver Sun reports, this isn’t the first time moms with strollers have gotten into trouble. Last January a couple was told they couldn’t get on a downtown bus when they refused to fold up their twin stroller. There was a 2009 ban on non-foldable strollers on Ottawa buses that sparked a protest by stroller moms (they won) and most recently there’s been talk of banning strollers altogether on buses and trains in Boston.

A quick search on the internet shows plenty of anger surrounding the strollers on buses debate. There’s even a Facebook page called I hate strollers on buses. Some of the comments:


Click the link for the comments, it's too long.


My take? It was ridiculous. The women should have collapsed their strollers to let the seniors in.
They could have held the child, it's not like it was a greyhound bus.
I think it was entirely selfish and rude. The seniors deserve to be able to sit down.

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Becky - posted on 08/05/2011

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I know that this article was specifically about moms with strollers, but when it comes to lack of seating for seniors or those who are mobility impaired, my guess would be that they are a very small fraction of the problem. If a mom with a stroller is using the wheelchair seating and a person in a wheelchair gets on the bus, then yes, she should move to vacate the spot for them. But if a senior, who can walk, gets on the bus, why should she be the one to move? Why not the 30 something professional sitting in the front row or the teenagers? Why target the mother with children, who is going to have a more difficult time standing and is compromising her children's safety by doing so?
And Jennifer, just because you only chose to have 1 child, I don't think you have any right to judge someone else's choice to have more than that. That's pretty rude, actually.

Krista - posted on 08/05/2011

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To me, the answer is no. Yes, overcrowding, and lack of space are often a problem on buses, especially during peak travel times. However, the cost of running more vehicles, or making them more wheelchair/stroller friendly would also result in a pretty hefty hike in fares, which would then cause all it's patrons to bitch, and make even public transit out of reach for many.

But what is the answer, then?

Even if those mothers HAD folded up their strollers, with that many kids and strollers and bags, there's still no way that they would have been able to avoid spilling out of the seats and into the aisle.

And yes, getting more of the ALF buses would be an expense, but a lot of the Metro Transit fleet is aging anyway. And if Peter Kelly is yammering on about a new trade centre AND a new stadium, then why should the city not be able to afford upgrading its mass transit system?

Lady Heather - posted on 08/02/2011

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I have to admit - I am extremely uncomfortable holding my kid on my lap on the bus and I'm just glad it's never come up for me before. She squiggles and squirms and if the bus stopped short I don't trust myself to hold on to her. I try to take the most compact stroller I can, but I live in a place with crazy weather and in the winter I simply can't take an umbrella stroller. I have to take something big with tires that can get through the ice and snow. And my big stroller really isn't going to be reduced much in size if I fold it.



I certainly wouldn't cause a scene and I would always do my best to take up as little space as possible because everybody deserves to ride the bus if they need to.



But that's just the point - everybody does including parents. I think there's this weird attitude that we mums just take our strollers on the bus for fun or something - like it's not really necessary. Trust me, if I could drive you can bet your ass I would. I walk whenever I can because I hate the whole ordeal of the bus. I've been told to "just put her in a carrier". Oh yeah? And where do I put the diaper bag and all the shopping? I'm just supposed to haul all that around on my person? Oh, and should I do that now that I'm pregnant too? I don't even have a lap for her to sit on right now.



I also get the old "why do you have kids if you can't afford a car?". My husband makes well into 6 figures and I don't have to work people. I don't drive because I have a medical condition. I guess all people with mild forms of epilepsy just shouldn't have kids because they might take up too much space on the bus?



Yeah, I am a little sensitive about this. I am always respectful to my fellow bus riders, but I expect some respect too. It is not easy being a mum who can't drive. It is not easy when I'm out with my toddler and I'm tired from hauling around the gut and she starts tantruming and there's no bus for another 45 minutes. I can't just wait for the next one. It really blows and it's not something I would do if I didn't have to. I don't take a stroller on the bus to spite people. If strollers were banned on transit most of this town would be entirely cut off to me and I would be virtually housebound in the winter. I'm not really seeing how that is fair to me or my kids.



/rant

Corinne - posted on 08/07/2011

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They do Mary, that's what I mean. The little old ladies have their trollies, the students have their bags with books and laptops in, holiday makers have their bags of souveniers and suitcases. Public transport is for the public, that means everybody. I personally put my youngest in the sling, made the 2yr old (at the time, they are 3 & 5yrs old now) walk and put my bag on my back. Now they both walk, it's a non issue for me now but I'm trying to understand why you seem to think I have LESS right to get on a bus with a young kid and all the crap that comes with it?

Angela - posted on 08/05/2011

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@JenniferM... it is harsh because you are basically judging everyone else on your experience and life. What if you were a single Mom and did not have Daddy around? Before you say that is a choice wait what if you were a single widow? ..... It is harsh to judge everyone by what your cousin has done!
I do not disagree in a perfect world we should all plan and understand all it takes to have and raise babies but really that is a very nice place to be but not realistic for an entire society.
I agree with you 100 percent that we need to think before we have kids, Hell I know of people who adopt kids form shit holes and collect welfare in the USA for them! I get furious just thinking of it, why would you choose to have kids you can't support? But again that is just one type of situation...but I can't judge all adoptive moms on this because it is not just.
In the end as a intelligent, productive, empathetic society we should be able to accommodate everyone, especially in wealthy countries IE the Western word!
The fact is most public transport just tries to get as many people they can fit and get money from... and to hell with society needs.

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Jessee - posted on 11/22/2012

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This is all bullshit, there were no senior citizens on in the seats and none wanting to get on, we put up the wheelchair seats to put our strollers there so they wouldn't be in the way of the aisles. it was piss pouring rain. & the bus driver said that many strollers couldn't get on the bus, the bus was practically empty, the bus driver told us all to get off the bus stating the wheelchair seats were only for people in wheelchairs and when we asked what the difference was considering the babies in the strollers couldn't walk and there were no wheelchairs on the bus why we couldn't just put it up he just said get off the bus, we were not going to put our children back out in the rain again and if a senior would have got on we would have moved out of their way and let them sit down, this is ridiculous how much this story has been altered to make the moms look bad, we paid to get on the bus and we were just trying to get home like everyone else, even if the strollers were folded it wouldn't have made anymore room then if we left our babies in the stroller, . AND he was in the wrong, so his SUPERVISOR made him drive us home!

[deleted account]

What about a senior common courtesy? If they see you struggling with a pram, two toddlers and a couple pf bags of shopping? Ive been there struggling and had half a dozen pensioners walk past me tutting because i was in their way and a teenage boy was the only one who offered to help me, he carried my pram onto the bus and my shopping. They say the youth of today has no respect i find that the older generation can be as damn rude as everyone else. Respect as to be earned not given out because of age only.

Angela - posted on 09/05/2011

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I agree Sherri, but it is not reality...so maybe some rules would help? i try to to be a good person,courteous and respectful despite what others do... it is who I
am... but it does to help me all the time

[deleted account]

This is why i never use public transport. I passed my test after getting fed up of having a baby and a toddler in a tandem pram. Believe me there is no way you can hold a young baby, hold a toddlers hand and fold a pram, now put a few bags of shopping into the equation. Im sorry but I think all buses should have a space for people with pushchairs and if there are plenty of seats on the bus i dont see why the senior citizens cant sit somewhere else.

Angela - posted on 09/01/2011

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I was sitting, and I fell forward. I think they do not have seat belts on some (because some do have seat belts been on one) because it is cheaper and yes the risk are low but that does not mean with out risk. I realize a bus is safer than a car but if you say it is safer for preschool age children with out safety equipment vs. safety equipment or seats for them I disagree.

In addition I don't think any child is safe having to stand or with a standing parent in a carrier.

I feel if we could make them safer(buses) and it saves injury or lives that is a good thing.

The real problem is they do not offer any designated space for kids, families. I think they could do so safely and not leave it up to a parent to guess what is best.

Noreen - posted on 08/31/2011

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Wow! That is insane! I am glad that we use an Ergo Carrier and leave the stroller home! Your child is safer in a seat anyways then in a loose stroller....

Isobel - posted on 08/30/2011

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hmmmm Angela, I disagree...if not...why are there no seat belts on government-run vehicles (because there is less danger?????)

and as for your accident...I do believe that I specifically said "to pull a baby out of your arms IF YOU ARE SITTING"

Angela - posted on 08/30/2011

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Hmmm Laura I don't think that is all accurate to base safety on. If that were the case if you have an SUV why do you need a seat belt and babycarseat?
On my personal experience I have had the bus brake so hard I fell forward and had to grab the seat in front of me.

Isobel - posted on 08/28/2011

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actually...according to the laws of physics a bus would have to hit something either equally as big or bigger in order to cause enough force to pull a baby out of your arms if you are sitting. Since most vehicles are MUCH smaller than buses, I think that you'd be pretty safe...basically it would be like an SUV running over a bicycle...a whole lotta damage to the bike, not much to the SUV

Angela - posted on 08/28/2011

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@Sherri you are right I feel my child is far safer in a plane in her car seat strapped in than on my lap. T As far as the latter group I do not feel they are safe really and could be made a lot safer. I also think it is possible to provide access to safe seating for a child on a bus and senior seating together. I hope someday they will. In the mean time I avoid using it if I can. Drive or ride my bike with my kids. That is what makes me feel safe all around.
We just sit on different sides of the fence on this one :)

LadyJane - posted on 08/28/2011

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With the way I was raised and the way I raise my children, Seniors must always have priority. They bones are more brittle, they're not as fast as they used to be, even if they were able to walk a great deal, they are still more able to get broken bones. For anyone who thinks they should take other transportation just so that children can have their seats, just seems selfish to me. At least if a child breaks a bone, it will heal faster then a senior's bone. Even when my daughter was a baby, I'd still would rather stand then allow any senior to not have those reserved seats.

Even when I was little, We always made sure to get up when a senior came on board, since they are the most weak. Even babies have a stronger bone structure than a senior.

I guess I was raised in a way where seniors were always given top priority along with those who were handicapped. Mothers and babies aren't weak, Strollers can be moved out of the way so that a senior can still be seated comfortably.

My children know that seniors have lived through pieces of history that they may only read in history books and what better resource then those who have lived in the heart of it.

When I did travel by bus when my oldest was a baby, I did in fact put her in my lap when I left my stroller at home, and held her in such way that should there be sudden movement, She'd still be safe. She was always placed facing me rather than facing to the front, so that in case of an incident, I'd have a much better grip to keep her from getting hurt.

Personally, I will continue putting seniors first. Even my children follow my lead. They can fit through windows in an emergency, a senior can't.

Tanya - posted on 08/28/2011

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See, and I think they are MOST secure (the way buses are today, anyways) when they are in a secure carrier, facing in to their parent's chest.

Angela - posted on 08/28/2011

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Sherri it is not safe for a child to be on your lap, you have a false sense of security. If that bus were to hit another vehicle you can not hold them securely even if you try and that child become a human cannon ball. Just look at the crash test sites. Adult seat belts are not made for and are dangerous for a child. Yes a stroller is not safe either.

It is not my responsibility it is the responsibility of the public transport and society as whole to offer equal safe public transport for all. My responsibility is to support such service with paying more, asking for it, and paying more taxes etc. We have done so for adults, the handicapped and more so why not children?

I will give you an example of safe transport that is equal.

At least in an Airplane I can buy an extra seat, which I do and bring a car seat. The seat will accommodate just as safe transport for myself and child. That is equal access to safe transport. When my child was under two I could choose if I wanted to put her in my lap. I choose the safe route and paid for a seat of her own. I do not have that choice on a bus.



I stated safe equal access, you don't seem to understand and again you are going by your experience that is it. You think how it is for you it is for everyone and thus judge it so. I have travel world wide, state wide, on a bus and I also seen the public school bus system in the USA and was appalled.

I did not always get seats offered to me, I have seen standing room only and over all feel that SAFE comfortable public transport for children and families is NOT ACCESSIBLE on the bus in western society.

Isobel - posted on 08/27/2011

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all they have to do is add a "new mother" symbol to that section for handicapped riders section. Nobody is MORE deserving than anybody else...mothers of young children are EQUALLY deserving of those spots as seniors.

I love my city.Even though my kids are 8 and 10, and we only take the subway one stop to school in the morning, half the time when there are no spots available, people get up to offer us seats to sit together.

Why is it so hard? Get up when you see ANYBODY who is having a rougher go than you...pretty simple really.

Becky - posted on 08/27/2011

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Well, no they're not, really, for the same reason a small child is not as safe riding in a vehicle using only the vehicle's seatbelt. Children's spines and necks are not as strong as an adult's, they do not have the same balance and physical strength as an adult, nor the same coordination. In a sudden stop, an unrestrained child is more likely to fall off the seat or bang their heads on the seat in front of them than an adult is. A child who is made to stand because no one is courteous enough to give up their seat is much more likely to be injured in an accident than an able-bodied adult. So I agree with Angela on that. Children may have the same access to public transportation as anyone else, but it is not as safe for them.

Angela - posted on 08/27/2011

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@ It does not matter to me how your specific public transport works. Sherri what if where you lived they did not have the special bus? Can you look at this a bit bigger? All you have to do is read the post to realize public transport is different everywhere and certainly should not be judged solely on your own public transport.

So I will ask you again if there was not any wheelchair lift on any buses would you tell that person you have the same access as me? Are saying it is good enough for me so it is good enough for everyone?

Dyan brought up Americans with disabilities act mandated in the USA. It simply was not good enough to expect states and cities etc. to guarantee equal access, So the made a few laws. We don't have such law for children on public transport. We do not have equal safe access for them but if we saw to their needs as we did the handicapped for example I think it would solve a lot of issues for everyone on all sides of the debate.

This could be done in numerous ways, the key is access, not to matter if it is a bus you call, seats with special straps etc etc...

Becky - posted on 08/26/2011

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Seats that face each other, rather than all facing the front of the bus - like subway seats - would be safer for children, if the children were in the seats that faced the rear of the bus. There would also be the option of doing built-in carseats like they did in some vehicles a few years ago. Atlhough that would be a huge undertaking, and I think they stopped doing those in vehicles, maybe because they weren't as safe? (not sure why) Or they could provide some sort of tether system either for carseats or just a tether like you bring on an airplane. At any rate, a young child, or a mother with an infant or toddler, is definitely safer sitting than standing and should have priority for seats on public transportation. Not over seniors or physically handicappe people, and not necessarily at the front of the bus, but over other able-bodied people who are able to stand and hold onto the safety rails. I said it in an earlier post, although in this particular case, yes, the mothers were not courteous, my guess would be that the majority of time, it is not the mothers with young children who are lacking in courtesy - they should have a seat! It is those who are perfectly able to stand up for 15 minutes and give someone who needs it more their seat, and do not, who are lacking in courtesy.

Rosie - posted on 08/26/2011

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isn't it illegal for public transportation to not provide handicap access? americans with disabilities act says it is anyway.

Angela - posted on 08/26/2011

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I am not avoiding it, I said it before I say it again, the fact is that if we could come up with solutions for the handicapped, we can come up with solutions for children. I am sure their is seats or space that could be used to do so. Are you asking me to be an engineer and design this? Is that what you want Sherri?

I know that it could be done, but I am not an engineer nor should I have to be one and give you a specific design to make my point. Which is children are a members of society it seems that they are not given equal access to safe public transport and their is not any mandate to do so. In additon a lot of people have problems with this lack of access and parents have to figure out what is safest for them with out knowing if it is safe. This leads to debates like stroller wars. All could be avoided if we just gave access to children. Every argument against doing so are the same arguments they had when they tried to give the handicapped equal access. I am glad that over all despite those against it, it was granted to most handicapped in the western world.

You stated Children were given the same access as me... what was you point? Is that really good enough? Would you say that to a wheel chair bound person who tried to get on a bus with out a wheel chair lift? It is not equal at all, the needs are much different. Can you address this?

Angela - posted on 08/25/2011

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Their are viable options we did it for the handicap why not kids? Would it take time and work sure but it is an option that is definitely viable! But people have to want to do it and pay the taxes etc. i just want to add it took years to get hanicap access for people and to give them legal rights...it would not be an overnight thing but you have to start it for it to happen and people need to agree with it.

Angela - posted on 08/25/2011

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"They aren't treating children any differently then you Angela."

I completely disagree with what you try to convey with that statement. We do not have equal needs anymore than a handicap person has more needs than I . We are not equal body mass. I am of height and weight to sit comfortable in a seat. I have the strength to hold onto something when the bus breaks suddenly or turns hard or hits a big bump. Better put i am not a child I am an adult. Children are not the same as adults.

I do what I can, I support it all I can to advocate for children. I really do not see why it was not acceptable to offer safe wheelchair handicap access and it is acceptable to not offer this for children.

I do all i can to advocate for children, so yes I DO something.

Tanya - posted on 08/25/2011

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Hannah, I don't know what kind of carrier you're picturing, but I used front carriers on the bus, so in order for someone to push my child, they would have to be pushing ME. Isn't it a lot easier to trip over a stroller wheel?

I guess because there are strollers everywhere, people just figure they are easier, but to me, they are cumbersome and awkward, and take up SO much space! Every time I'm at a family event, I notice how much space is wasted by strollers. On the bus, it's even more noticeable!

Hannah - posted on 08/25/2011

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I have an SUV stroller which I used for my son until he was about 8 months old and then I bought a five point harness umbrella stroller. It's not as small as the cheap ones but its certainly close. Id feel much safer having him in that than say having to fold it up and have to worry about my son not being able to hold or sit down or whatever. If one person feels its a better option to leave them in the stroller so be it and if not that cool too. I just dont think it would be safe for him to be out of his stroller. And I wouldnt be comfortable having him in a carrier. Buses get crowded and people push their way through. Like someone mentioned before backpacks are so obnoxious and protrude so much that I can imagine if you were on a bus and you had to get off the bus I would be worried that my child would get pushed or whatever. At least with a stoller people can see it.

Hannah - posted on 08/25/2011

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I live in Ottawa and can clarify some things about riding with strollers. There are a maximum of 2 stollers allowed(I believe) and the front seats must be folded up in order to allow for more room. And if my memory serves me correctly they do have belts but Ive never seen anyone with strollers use them and only once or twice have seen a passenger who used a wheel chair use the safety belt. People just use their brakes on whatever device they have.

Angela - posted on 08/25/2011

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Tanya it depends of the age of a child, if a seat is available, how many children you are transporting etc. I don't think the answer is a simple as a carrier. I think a better answer is safe seating for children, not just babies.

Tanya - posted on 08/25/2011

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I fail to see how being in a stroller is safer than being snuggled in with mom. I felt my son was MUCH safer in his secure carrier! I had both of my hands free to grab on to my older son and the bus if anything happened. If he'd been in a stroller, I would have had to choose between holding on to the stroller, or holding on to the bus. My older son would have been on his own! Trying to hold a stroller with one hand would be futile, and the stroller becomes a projectile!


Now, if the stroller was actually strapped into the bus, I guess it would be safer, but most strollers only have a 3-point harness, and they aren't very tight. Plus there's nothing to stop them from getting severe whiplash. When they are in a carrier, how much their body and head are going to move is a lot more restricted.

Angela - posted on 08/25/2011

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See if you just go by your great experience and judge everything else by it than you are not seeing the big picture. The fact is all the public should be afforded safe comfortable transport. If the seats are limited so be it, if it cost a bit extra so be it. Any argument against children having safe public transport is just as equal as stating we need not have wheel chair or handicap access to public transport. One is not more important per say but one side is neglected and that is children! It does not matter if in your town, you area they have great safe public transport for your child. What matters is it is not accessible to all children and their is not any laws to enforce the rights to a child who is an integral part of society. To put them last is not excusable in my book. To not have any type of regulation except for what to do with your darn stroller says a lot of what we think of our children in society.

Jacquie - posted on 08/24/2011

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Im sorry but children to me are more important and being in a stroller is alittle bit more safe because the child would be buckled in and the mother would be holding onto the stroller and big strollers cant be easily tipped over and i was on the bus today and the bus driver kept slamming on his brakes and the child flew off his seat and i wouldve been furious if that happened to my child and the bus driver didnt even appologize he was just plain rude about it.....Also seniors can find other ways to get around too...I know that people should always be nice and have respect for one and other but children are number 1 on my list

Hannah - posted on 08/24/2011

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I am a mom who takes the bus when I need to with my son in his umbrella stroller who is 16 months old. Mostly I walk but when I need to I dont hesitate to take the bus. I believe what it comes to down to is respect. Before becoming a mom I would see alot of people who just ingore the elderly and the moms with the strollers. Like you can sit somewhere else right? I dont have to move? Ok Awesome! I think this is where it drives me bonkers. Each person who rides the bus should be equally courtious to look out for other people. But its not like that always. Sad, sad, sad :(

As for folding up the strollers, I think it can be a bit unrealistic in some instances. With an infant, you shouldnt be expected to fold up your stroller and juggle holding the diaper bag while you are hanging onto your baby for dear life. Not safe. And then you have to load off the bus while trying to dart to the front of the bus(while carrying your baby and diaper bag and then get the stroller) before you miss your stop while people are piling in completly in their own world, oblivious to their surrounds. And then its like oh I didnt see you, Sorry! With a toddler, umbrella strollers are great because they are so small and compact but if a parent is alone and again other passengers are rude and inconsiderate it can be a little hard to expect someone to fold up an umbrella stroller. If you've ever been on a bus enough you know that people are in their own little world and some(but not all)just arent that nice. And then you have to think about the crowds that rush in at the front of the bus, who are on even before you can get to the front when people wont even move or dont see you because they arent paying attention.

Giving moms who ride the bus with strollers a hard time is not going to solve anything. It will just piss us off more. Moms with strollers are just as entitled to ride the bus as someone in a wheel chair. And its not because we feel we are more entitled than someone in a wheel chair. We are equal. Without strollers we wouldnt be able to do half the things we can do(with all the stuff we carry, or go about our normal life and shop for groceries or whatever).

I was thinking how some people think and say that moms with strollers should find another mode of transportation with a baby. But I think of it this way. You are a mom who needs to get groceries and you are not able to take a bus so let say you get a taxi. So factor in installing car seat. You get to the grocery store, pay the cabbie, unistall the carseat, find a cart and drag the car seat with you put the baby, goodness knows where(if they are still in the stroller car seat) then you grocery shop and repeat. Can you imagine, Lol.....Not happening!

LadyJane - posted on 08/24/2011

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Just because a Senior doesn't have a walker or a wheelchair doesn't mean they can walk down the aisle to another seat, especially if that bus is in motion. My mom is one of those, yet because her doctor has determined she can walk at least 150 paces she doesn't qualify for a walker or wheelchair, even though she has extreme difficulty in walking even just to the end of a short driveway.

Some, NOT all of our buses do come equipped with wheelchair lifts for those who need those, but there is a limit as to how many wheelchairs can be on a bus at one time. Even the walker some seniors use have to be folded.

Regarding strollers, if the mom is unable to fold their stroller, the driver is more than willing to assist with that, but they do require the strollers folded during peak bus hours. If the stroller cannot be folded, only 2 of those are allowed on the bus at one time to accomodate other passengers. Seniors and the disabled are both given priority especially when its a full bus. No exceptions.

In some cases those with unfolded strollers may be requested to stand should the need arises when the bus is full so that the seniors and disabled can have priorty.

I have yet to be on the bus where there were any issues of anyone not being able to sit comfortably, or where anyone refused to give up a seat to a senior or a disabled person.

I don't really see what the fuss is all about it. Even when I rode the bus during a peak period and had to stand myself, everyone always stood up for a senior or disabled even if that seat was not the designated seat at the front of the bus.

Jacquie - posted on 08/24/2011

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Well if some peoples transportation is only bus then they expect to have the safest way being on it and the safest place for a baby is to be buckled in its stroller and to be facing the parent....and like i said before there are HandiDart buses just for seniors

Angela - posted on 08/24/2011

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My point exactly ... safe mode of transport for children... I don't like any of my options because they all stink

Angela - posted on 08/24/2011

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Well as I said my child hated the sling and I tried all kinds... and as stated holding a child in your lap is hardly safe. It is illegal in a car because it is not safe...

Tanya - posted on 08/23/2011

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My 15-month-old is 29 lbs. (and has been since he was 13 months). He fits easily in my ring sling and mei tai, and I'm going to try out a Boba as soon as it gets here! I'm not small, but I previously carried my oldest until he was 45 lbs. and about 46" tall!

Angela - posted on 08/23/2011

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"What happened if someone was holding their baby and the bus driver slammed on their brakes and something happened cuz those bus drivers can be careless "

EXACTLY, thus why they should provide space for children that is safe. They did it for wheel chair bound people, (which rarely use it) so why not children?



What if you have a larger child age 12 months and you are small like me you can't put them in a wrap, also not all children like the wraps, like my Claire. She hated it.

Jacquie - posted on 08/22/2011

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Seniors should take the HandiDart Bus...Sometimes strollers can be stressful folding them then unfolding them if your by yourself besides seniors already lived their lives be nice to mothers with babies they ARE only babies. What happened if someone was holding their baby and the bus driver slammed on their brakes and something happened cuz those bus drivers can be careless they only want to get to their destination doesnt matter how they drive...I dont hate seniors but if they dont have a wheel chair or walker they can sit somewhere else

[deleted account]

I guess my question would be: was the bus full? If not, then there is no reason why the seniors couldn't sit a few rows back. Why do seniors feel they are entitled to seats at the front of the bus? Isn't that the real entitlement mentality? I can't tell you how many times I've seen senior citizens act like they are entitled to special treatment -- first of the line service, etc.

Angela - posted on 08/22/2011

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Good point I never see anyone in a wheel chair use the city buses either Denikka. I agree with you post too.

Denikka - posted on 08/21/2011

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I'm not even going to comment on the story, just because there's not enough information to make any assumptions. It could be a bus driving on a power trip (if there was no one there who actually needed the seats) or it could have been entitled moms, or anything in between. In that situation, I don't know.
But in general, I have to say that it depends on the individual situations. Why should a burdened, tired mom with 3 kids get up and move for an able bodied, physically fit 66 year old? I think expectations like that are ridiculous.
I DO, however, think that size restraints should be put on what strollers are allowed on the bus. I think the mobile home sized strollers are ridiculous to take just about anywhere there are other people. Although I can see their appeal to the user, they are mostly impractical for every other person in the area.
So having a size restriction would be practical.

I also think that all buses should have an area designated for wheelchairs and strollers. I've seen buses with fold down seats (there's usually about 6 of them in a row on one side of the bus). These seats are big enough for an obese person, a wheelchair, or a large sized stroller. I think all public transit should have this. If there's room for wheel chairs, there's room for strollers.
There definitely has to be common sense on the part of the parent, but I think the option should exist. If you have only one child in an umbrella stroller and the bus is getting cramped, then yea, hold on to the kid and fold down the stroller for some extra room. But if you have 2 kids and the groceries in a larger sized stroller, you should have the option to be able to leave your buggy up.
I would be okay with an extra fee for people with buggies though.
Buses are generally first come first serve, and if someone is taking up the seat, then unless THEY decide to give it up....well, the newcomer is SoL. I can't actually say I've ever even seen a person in a wheelchair USE a city bus anyways. They generally have a motorized chair, or they choose to use the HandiDART buses in my area. So I suppose it's less of an issue on the buses I've been on.

It really comes down to common sense and common courtesy. Neither of which is very common any more apparently.

Tanya - posted on 08/21/2011

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I had to take the bus with two kids for several months when I didn't have a car, and I would always wear my baby/toddler and my older, school-aged son would sit in his own seat. I NEVER brought my stroller on the bus...I hate strollers to begin with because they take up so much room.


BUT, I was able to walk (with my stroller) to a grocery store, and could sometimes use my mom's car if I had a big shopping to do. If I hadn't, I would have HAD to take the stroller on the bus sometimes. So not being allowed to do that would have been horrible.


But, if these moms weren't shopping, then I don't see why they couldn't have folded up their strollers. Maybe they should get a carrier if they are going to be on the bus alot??

Cyndel - posted on 08/21/2011

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Ummm I wear my son in a wrap (an AWESOME type of baby carrier that has been used around the world for a long time), but if i had a stroller then I would fold it up. If I had twins then I would probably have either worn both, or worn one and stroller-ed the other in which case it wouldn't be difficult to fold the S and carry baby #2

LadyJane - posted on 08/18/2011

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Not where I live, we all care about each other especially when getting on a bus. If the bus if full ( true story ) and I'm sitting with a stroller with a sleeping baby in it and a senior comes on. I will definitely get up and stand and move the stroller so that the senior can sit comfortably. On our buses it isn't too hard to do that, they do have wide aisles in the front section and a large section way in the back behind the last seat. The newer buses are even wider in the aisles and 2 full size strollers can stand side by side unfolded..

I always treat strangers even if they're cranky seniors with respect. After all, they probably have a reason to be cranky with all their years of living they've done. They do deserve more entitlement than children, they've been around longer.

Nicole - posted on 08/17/2011

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@ angela, it really, i feel depends on where you live. no children are not luggage and should not be treated as such. cause that is wrong. but no one is entitled either.

if a senor citizen told my child to get up cause he felt he was entitled id tell my kid to stay seated. cause no one is entitled. no one has the right to push another around. i dont care if you are blind have one leg and and no arms. or are just old or very young...that is what is wrong wiht people.

now out of kindness people give up their seats to the elderly and offer help to the moms of multiple children but when you act entitled no one should help them. not one strangers care about another person they dont know that way. infact people are as insignificant to a stranger as their pocket lint. its the harsh truth. does that make it right for people to treat others like crap no. so treat others as you would want to be treated.

and imo the moms were being mistreated. so i hope one day when that bus driver is old he gets denied a bus ride. i hear this karma can be a nasty B!!!!

they are not given much value because of the bad parents that have bad children. the parents that cave and let their child be wild animals instead of rasing them to be obedient kind caring and well mannered. ever think that maybe society is getting burnt out on these ill mannered rugrats??

Angela - posted on 08/16/2011

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@ Nicole,
"not sure what that has to do with buses but really if people cared about their futures they would know it starts with the younger generation.=) they will be the one providing for us when we are old and decrepit. "

That is it in a nutshell what is has to do with buses, how we treat children, they are not luggage or property but should be valued members of society and I do not see society give them much value form public transport to public schools.

Nicole - posted on 08/16/2011

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our city transit buses are very wide here in Cleveland and are very accommodating even have bike racks. they are more like subway buses?? they are very open and not like a school bus would be. here the buses have the seats that line the sides of the bus and face the middle . so i can see that if your bus is set up like a school bus then how it would be a problem. only maybe the first few seats face forward but the rest very open. every one here has their little fold up carts they use if they have to commute by bus to the store and moms do have their strollers and some do fold them up and some dont and its not a big deal here cause thats how we all get around and are several bus lines the buses never seem to get too over crowded either. and all of them are handicap accessible. so i can see why if your bus is more like a school bus why you would get upset. like i said previously though if i did take a stroller out of respect i would use my umbrella type one as it is more compact.

and here bus rides are not just ten minutes. its 40 minutes by car to get from where i live to our friends house in the greater cleveland area. ( we live in suburb of cleveland) if our friend takes the bus he can get here in 1 hour and 30 min if he can get to the check point before the 51 that comes to the cornor of my street hasnt left already from that lot. other wise it will be two hours and 15 minutes before he gets here sometimes even longer pending. so our buss rides are pretty long here. he has to do three buss changes and the rapid to get here. so for me..i wouldn't put my toddler through that in a bus seat.

Nicole - posted on 08/16/2011

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angela i understand your school comment s it hits close to homefor me. all my life i went to richie schools got teased and finally i begged for a transfer to an innercity school that was closer to me to access anyways well i saw why i was always sent out further for my education. as i was then the smartest kid in school i learned absolutly nothing new my sophmore and junior years of highschool it was like repeating 8th and ninth grade all over again. the school was falling apart roof collapsing down and finally 6 years after graduating the city tax payers agreed to pass a school levy that will up the education value of Elyria Ohio. with a brand new high school a high school they have been fighting for, for 20 years. and remodeling the elementrary schools and hiriring better staff. they had the lowest opt and odgt scores in the state. while before that i was going to blue ribbon private schools and midview where the test averages were much higher and the grading scale harder. i couldn't believe at Elyria that a 90-100 was an A. as at midview and st Jude it was 97-100 was an A. the difference it made in my education. you kind of get laughed at if you come from Elysia high=/ you still get jobs and such but if an employer had a choice between the two schools they would pick the mhs student over the EHS alumni. and dont even get me on the Cleveland schools some of them are way worse the what EHS ever was ...not sure what that has to do with buses but really if people cared about their futures they would know it starts with the younger generation.=) they will be the one providing for us when we are old and decrepit.

Nicole - posted on 08/16/2011

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well firstly i would want to know the age of the children and which mothers had what aged children and being in what kind of area.

in the area in which i live not many people have cars we have city transit that most people use cause for some reason they dont have a car lost there car or can not drive.

like one of the moms stated i would have folded up the stroller if it was one small child(under 9 months) and an older child. espically if the seats had small belts on them. most busses don't and i would want my kid in the stroller cause my 17 month old wont know better to not get out of her seat. to sit her in my lap for the hour ride...o.0 you are asking for hell to be risen. not from me but her. do you want a child with blood curdling screams riding the bus or a nice calm one ???

if i had walked all this way and wanted on a bus to get home which would be 4 stops and a check point yeah i would want my kid in the stroller. but i would take the umbrella cause its smaller not a hulking massive space hogger.

its not i think entitlement but if your child is older then put down the stroller if they can sit there and sit there the entire ride. if not i understand why some moms wouldn't cause i wouldn't till my kid was 3 at least. where she could then understand how the bus ride works.

Lotte - posted on 08/13/2011

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Now I get pissed when I'm holding an infant and being told to somehow stand and try to keep us both from falling. Toddlers can sit behind me if theres a spot, or even a couple seats away (not under 3 tho) and the stroller can go under the seat. theres room on my lap. the idea is the MOST VULNERABLE should get the front seats so yes even with my kids and stroller we do move for elder and obviously frail people and if we have the option, take a different bus. I would feel so bad if some little old lady fell and seriously hurt herself more than I if it had been ME standing. a child should not be put in danger tho, I'd eve go as far as asking if someone sitting could hold my baby in case we fall BUT we live in a smaller town so doing crazy things like that isn't really necessary lol.

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