This is not a debate, its a WTF?

Sharon - posted on 01/21/2011 ( 65 moms have responded )

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http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-oa...,0,6183888.story

OAKLAND, Calif. (KTLA) -- An elementary school teacher in Oakland has been placed on leave after reports that two students engaged in oral sex during class and others stripped off their clothing in separate incidents.

The alleged incidents took place last week at Markham Elementary School but weren't reported to school officials until Wednesday, KTVU is reporting.

The first incident involved several students who stripped off clothing "while acting disruptively in the classroom," stated a letter sent out Thursday by the school's principal.

The second incident involved two second-grade students -- a boy and a girl -- who engaged in oral sex inside the classroom, KTVU is reporting. Further details were not released.

School officials say the incidents came to light when students told a teacher's aide.

Second graders who observed what happened or were involved in incidents were being offered counseling.

******************************************************************************888

second grade??? this shit happened in SECOND GRADE??? What the fucking hell???

My daughter was in second grade last year... how the fuck does that kind of shit happen? How does one 2nd grader know what oral sex is, much less two? much less both of them being in the same goddamned class with a teacher who has no control over them??

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Nikkole - posted on 01/21/2011

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When i was 5 or 6 i was molested (almost raped) By our neighbor and her boyfriend they were 15 or so cant really remember! But when on my 7th birthday my guy friends stayed longer than anyone eles we went to my room and kissed and touched and i really feel i did this as a result of being molested because i didn't really know about sex or anything till i was about 10-11! And thins like that really have an impact on your life even if you know it or not when i got with my husband i had MAJOR issues if he tried to get me to have sex with him (when i didnt want to) i would literally sit there and cried and he would feel awful but it wasn't his fault it was the issues i had as a child! I just hope that something like what happened to me didn't happen to these kids!

Jodi - posted on 01/21/2011

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I'm having to question, too, whether it was really "oral sex" as we define it as adults. They haven't released those details.

Regardless, NONE of this should be happening in a 2nd grade classroom. What happened to sit the fuck down and do as you are told or you can go to the Principal's office? Sounds to me like that teacher had no control of her class of 2nd graders, in which case, she has no business being a teacher.

Cassie - posted on 01/21/2011

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This is absolutely horrible and sad. I look to the environment those children are growing up in to understand it.

I have to comment though on all the comments about the teacher and where was she. In our school district, cut backs, school closings, and a rise in the number of students has left our classes FULL. When I say full, I mean full. At one point, one of our 3rd grade classes had 31 students. That is 31 children to one teacher. Of those 31 students, 6 had behaviorial IEP's meaning that they required extra help because of behavioral issues. On top of these students, you have just your run of the mill problem children, class clowns, drama queens, etc. It can be really chaotic trying to keep control of that many children alone. While I do not think it is ok that this happened in a classroom where children are supposed to be safe, a lot is expected of teachers that is difficult for the teacher to actually control. During the hours of school, we are their educator, friend, mentor, "parent", or anything else they need to be. Doing this for all students in a classroom (31 in our school to be specific) can take your focus away from monitoring every inch of the classroom.

[deleted account]

Julianne - I am almost finished with my post-grad studies in child and adolescent psychology and i can quite confidently say that this kind of behaviour is absolutly NOT normal at this age!! And can have serious consequences in the long term. The chances are they have seen their parents or other family members having oral sex, or have been exposed to pornographic materials like magazines or videos, which i personally see as a form of child abuse

Sherri - posted on 01/21/2011

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That is some horrifying stuff. What are the parents doing to teach this to poor innocent 6 & 7 yrs olds? Our kids can't even cross the street, or watch anything besides Disney or PBS at these ages. Heck my oldest two didn't have any concept of sex till they were 12 and we told them they almost fell over and died.

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Sherri - posted on 01/24/2011

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Actually that is exactly what would happen in my school system as well. Any non reported suspected abuse would be automatic termination and possible charges brought as well.

Bonnie - posted on 01/22/2011

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The elementary and highschool I went to had 30-35 students per class. Pretty congested.

Charlie - posted on 01/22/2011

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That is right Amanda the school I was talking about is located in the richest suburb of our capital all very wealthy and powerful people .

Cassie - posted on 01/22/2011

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Exactly Amanda. We have a third grader, who we were informed about a month after school started, who likes to play the "finger game" as she calls it. She was sexually abused as a child and was experimenting with other children around her. It's heartbreaking because it's truly not her fault. She was abused and this is normal to her. We as a group of teachers are now pro-active in keeping her in the classroom in a safe way. She sits at a desk in the middle of the classroom by herself while the other students are at tables. She gets escorted to the restroom by 2 other students so that no one child is ever alone with her at any given time. She is a wonderfully kind, loving, happy little girl who has experienced some very dark, disgusting things. We can not punish her but we have to be pro-active and protective of the other students.

Amanda - posted on 01/22/2011

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I noticed a lot of mothers blaming this type of actions on the area of the schools, My son went to a "rich" public school, in a very well to do area. In grade one, a boy got all touchy feely on him, and tried to talk him into oral sex. This happens in all types of schools, all class sizes (my sons was a special speech class of 11 kids to 3 teachers). Unfor it happens, and personally I think in a lot of the cases, the child who is trying to convince the other child to take it from innocent child play to adult play, has many issues and family problems most of us can never understand.



When my son reported his abuse to me, I requested the school do a check up on the family, not to punish the boy. It isnt normal for a grade one or two to behave this way, someone taught them how to do it.

Stifler's - posted on 01/21/2011

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HAHA we always had huge class sizes. My English class in year 8 had a new teacher every term and half the class in RTC at all times. Kids are so sneaky anyway, if our name was written on the board someone would distract the teacher and rub off names of people that were always in trouble.

Nikkole - posted on 01/21/2011

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I think we had 30 in one class one time it was horrible they kept laying off teachers and aids but i think it has gotten better since i left i know it had to be hard on the teachers!

Sherri - posted on 01/21/2011

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The most they can have in middle school and high school classes here is 25 to a class. So 14-17 w/a teacher and a paraprofessional in every class up until middle school and then 25 to a class in middle and high school per 1 teacher.

Nikkole - posted on 01/21/2011

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Yea in some of my classes in high school we didn't have enough seats :(

Sherri - posted on 01/21/2011

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That is nuts we avg. 14 to a class and the most would ever be 17 until middle school.

[deleted account]

Hmmm yeah...I had 24 in my room. 8 in a reading group with me, 8 doing individual work at their desks, 8 around the classroom at different centers (computer, art, listening)...I suppose it would be easy to loose track of a couple of students in the listening center across the room as my head was bent helping a student at the reading table with me. No excuse to not report something, but I can understand how things happen.

Cassie - posted on 01/21/2011

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Exactly. At a school I volunteered in a few years ago, there were only 10-12 students per class. It is much easier to be aware of everything going on and all students all the time. If you triple that number, it is nearly impossible to know exactly what is happening at all times with all students while teaching and providing help to individual students who need it.

[deleted account]

Thank you Cassie. Teachers do hold responsibility for their classrooms, but it's important to remember what some teachers are up against. It's hard to imagine this happening in a classroom until you've been inside certain schools.

Stifler's - posted on 01/21/2011

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When I was in year 5 there was a rumour of grade 3s "doing it" in the toilets. I highly doubt they were "doing" anything involving penetration but nevertheless.

Savannah - posted on 01/21/2011

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Absolutely crazy! My youngest siblings are in middle school and its amazing what they came home saying on their 1st day! But Elementary? Wow, Makes me want to keep my kids at home, and how could this happen with a teacher in the room? Its insane

Sherri - posted on 01/21/2011

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I just taught my boys no one is allowed to touch your private parts ever except themselves. Unless it was for a doctors visit when mommy was present. Other than that nobody.

A little girl in my 4yr olds preschool class decided it would be funny to kick him in the privates as a joke. The teacher witnessed it and it was dealt with at school. My son was not injured and the school was all up in arms about it. I was like that is what 4yr olds do they are curious creatures. Not my first trip down this road he is my youngest. She was sat down and explained we don't do things at school etc. I was confident with how the school addressed it and it was innocent enough. Nothing like these poor poor kids in this article.

Bonnie - posted on 01/21/2011

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For sure Julianne, except I don't have any daughters, both boys LOL. I would love a daughter, but don't have one.

[deleted account]

teach her about privacy, that no one should see her or touch her inappropriately. Make sure she knows if someone acts like that towards her that its not ok and to tell someone. Knowledge is power, back her up with some so she can deal properly with a situation if it arises.

Bonnie - posted on 01/21/2011

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I have one child that just started school this year. I am terrified that this could be what I have to look forward to :-(

[deleted account]

I did my student teaching in a school where a boy received oral from a girl in first grade. Two third graders were caught in the bathroom. The school was located in a high prostitution and high crime area. Yes, the teacher should have reported it. Sadly, this story does not surprise me.

Jodi - posted on 01/21/2011

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When I was roughly that age (IDK,1st or 2nd grade) my dad's good friend had a son just barely a year older than me. He used to try to get me to touch and kiss his penis and show him my vagina. He got caught one day (unfortunately, for some time I was "blamed" too, took a while for my parents to believe I didn't WANT to see his penis!) But to do it in the classroom?? And the teacher didn't report IMMEDIATELY?! And it wasn't a one time incident???? It kind of makes me wonder about the teacher honestly...

Charlie - posted on 01/21/2011

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Doesn't surprise me in the slightest after finding two 5 year olds at my school engaged in what looked like oral sex , one boy had his head up the girls skirt ( we had spoken to her several times about trying to make the boy kiss her ) , we came around the corner and our jaws dropped when he looked up at us while wiping his mouth , they had found a little corner inside while everyone was having outside time playing we noticed we were down two and went inside and HOLY SHIT BALLS our poor eyes .

That was the most awkward parent teacher meeting EVER .

Not to mention the 5 year old girls who would bump and grind when we would put on music for the kids to dance , it was gross really .

Tara - posted on 01/21/2011

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It does happen. I said it before. My now 14 year old spent his recess and lunch time running from girls who wanted to "kiss his wee wee". I was horrified.

Inexcusable.



edited to add "when he was in grade 2." it kind of read like he now spends his time running from girls..lol

[deleted account]

even if they are not in puberty, every human is still a sexual being, being shown sexual images at a very young age distorts the brain and can make children sexual at 8 or even younger. Grade 2 is 7-8 here..

Jodi - posted on 01/21/2011

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"When they have sexual hormones because they are starting puberty, seeing these images can bring that behavior out of them. "



Julianne, 2 children having *oral sex* (still questioning that it was REALLY oral sex) and a number of them stripping has nothing to do with all those children starting puberty. In a single 2nd grade classroom, I find it VERY hard to believe that more than one or two of them has started puberty. If it was 4th or 5th grade, I'd agree, but not 2nd. We are talking 6 or 7 year olds. Puberty is not the norm at that age, it is the exception (and quite a sad exception at that).

Nikkole - posted on 01/21/2011

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Yea a lot of parents don't monitor what there kids watch or listen to and if they go to friends house then they could watch anything I agree some music videos and tv shows are a bit over the top!

[deleted account]

I did not say it was normal. I said it doesn't surprise me. With the way society is, sex is everywhere in media. Children are exposed to sexual behavior at too young of an age. Some music videos i would consider soft core porn. When they have sexual hormones because they are starting puberty, seeing these images can bring that behavior out of them.

Nikkole - posted on 01/21/2011

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Yea i had a LOT of trust issues and i didn't really have many friends i was VERY quiet in high school but im over that stuff now :) no ones fault

Shauna - posted on 01/21/2011

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Thats horrible Nikkole, im sorry that happened to you. My mom was molested when she was a child too, and was told to keep her mouth shut about it by her own mother. She grew up very insecure.

Nikkole - posted on 01/21/2011

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Yea and you want to hear the best part i told my mom this was going on so she confronted the girls mom and dad and told them and they Grounded her from the phone THATS IT! But ive gotten over it with counseling and talking with husband about it because something similar happened to him while living in a bad part of town!

Cyndel - posted on 01/21/2011

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I'm horrified, saddened...but not surprised. What is going on in those children's homes?

Bonnie - posted on 01/21/2011

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Holy Moley, second grade?? That is gross. What are they like 7 years old? Who knows who taught these children this. It could be older friends, siblings? I doubt it was the parents. Although it could be that the parents are never around to guide them properly that did this.

Stifler's - posted on 01/21/2011

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Even children are sexual beings. They can figure out what oral sex is. Kids play all sorts of ridiculous games with their misguided ideas of sex. I've been a child before, I know. I want to know what kind of grade 2 kid does it in front of people though... wtf.

Shauna - posted on 01/21/2011

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They were a messed up family. But my mom knew the wife so i wasnt too concerned .. they were meth heads. Harmless but idiots. they have 4 kids. ONe time the oldest a 6 yr old girl invited the neighbor boy over to play .. i was like "whatever" so they were playing in the basement and the boy came running out of the basement SCREAMING AND CRYING and ran out the door.. i was like "what the hell did you do to him!?" ... she said "THAT FAGGOT WOULDNT HAVE SEX WITH ME!" ............ WTF!!!!! i was like 15 or 16 when i babysat them so for a min im sure i laughed b/c it was funny to me , but OMG .. WTF...

Nikkole - posted on 01/21/2011

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@Shauna haha thats when you say NO "But do you wanna see my taser :P ? thats really messed up!

Shauna - posted on 01/21/2011

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Im not that surprised either. Kids know more than people like to think. I used to babysit a 2 yr old boy when i was in highschool ... one night i was trying to cuddle him to bed he tried pulling up my shirt and said "i want to see your tities" "are they small?" HE WAS 2 freaking yrs old!!!!!!!!!!!! then on another occassion when his dad picked me up to babysit his dad said "so you want to see my penis ring?
so ... right there i knew why he acts that way.
F-d up parents cause this.

Nikkole - posted on 01/21/2011

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Yea i agree with krista when i was younger i did some exploring with a little boy next door he was a yr older than me but just harmless looking and me thinking wow hes different lol!! But if these kids were preforming oral sex Where on earth did they learn it from TV,Older kids on the buss? I remember when i used to ride the bus to school some of the kids in 1st grade could out cuss me and i was a Sophomore i think the younger kids should not be around the older kids! But the teacher should have been watching i mead for god sakes where were they when they were doing this under the reading table?

Krista - posted on 01/21/2011

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Actually now that I think about it, I probably did that at even a younger age. My best friend when I was little was a boy. When we were three or four, we would sometimes look at each other's privates or touch them, and if I recall correctly, he did once kiss my "duckie" (as I oh-so-accurately called it back then.)

So I have no idea what to think of this. Were the kids really engaging in oral sex? Or was it innocent exploration like what I did? So it might not be a case of the kids being exposed to what oral sex actually is -- it might have just been curiousity. But in either case, the teacher should have had a handle on the situation.

[deleted account]

Sharon, its not normal for 2nd graders. It just doesn't surprise me. After all, puberty starts very young, so kids that age are starting to become sexual beings. In grade two, i started wearing a bra, I started my period in grade 3, obviously the sex hormones were there.



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Sarah - posted on 01/21/2011

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Damn, when I was in 2nd grade, I was still sucking my thumb. I couldn't imagine sucking a...you get the picture. Seriously though, WTF. That's very VERY sad. I can't even imagine what those kids' home life must be like. And where in the hell was the teacher? My god.

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