Too dumb for sex

Esther - posted on 02/08/2011 ( 32 moms have responded )

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Admittedly - I think some people really ARE too dumb/irresponsible to have sex, but it's one thing to think that and a whole other for a court to rule to that effect. This is the story:

The 41 year-old had been in a relationship with a man whom he lived with and told officials “it would make me feel happy” for it to continue.

But his local council decided his “vigorous sex drive” was inappropriate and that with an IQ of 48 and a “moderate” learning disability, he did not understand what he was doing.

A psychiatrist involved in the case even tried to prevent the man being given sex education, on the grounds that it would leave him “confused”.

Mr Justice Mostyn said the case was “legally, intellectually and morally” complex as sex is “one of the most basic human functions” and the court must “tread especially carefully” when the state tries to curtail it.

But he agreed that the man, known only as Alan, should not be allowed to have sex with anyone on the grounds that he did not have the mental capacity to understand the health risks associated with his actions.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/l...

What do you all think of this?

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Sharon - posted on 02/09/2011

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Actually - for the most part irresponsible mentally capable "adults" have to take some responsibility for their actions. Generally they have to pay for their own medical care, pay to raise their kids etc.

if the mentally incompentent man needs medical care it goes to the taxpayers to support it, if he fathers a child, it goes to the taxpayers to support it.

Angela - posted on 02/09/2011

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Wow! thats actually a violation of human rights and A mentally disabled man is benned from having sex but 13 year old children arent? MMMMM...very interesting indeed. Says so very much about society.

Krissy - posted on 02/09/2011

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Angela, very good comment re: 13 year old kids...

My thoughts on this... I'd be concerned that a """normal""" person would easily take advantage of him... and also, it's apparent he doesn't distinguish between children and adults, which could be a danger to others.

Jenni - posted on 02/09/2011

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Well I'm from windsor, ontario. Home of the infamous Carl Leone who had sex with over 100s of women without informing them he has HIV.
Tax payers pay for the women he infected's healthcare and for his 18 year prison term as well as his health care.
We have universal health care so tax payers already pay for everyone's health care.

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Iridescent - posted on 02/12/2011

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They used to sterilize anybody with a mental capacity in the mentally retarded range (so 69 and below) in Minnesota. It was found to be a violation of basic human rights by the UN and stopped in the 1980's. I really think they went too far. It is his body, it is his choice. If he's a pedophile, lock him up. If he's making age appropriate choices, let him have some kind of "normal" life. Plus how can a person even HOPE to learn when everyone refuses to teach?

Esther - posted on 02/10/2011

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More from Wikipedia:

The following ranges, based on Standard Scores of intelligence tests, reflect the categories of the American Association of Mental Retardation, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders-IV-TR, and the International Classification of Diseases:

Class IQ
Profound mental retardation Below 20
Severe mental retardation 20–34
Moderate mental retardation 35–49
Mild mental retardation 50–69
Borderline intellectual functioning 70–84

Esther - posted on 02/10/2011

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Tracey - This is from Wikipedia:

Mental retardation (MR) is a generalized disorder appearing before adulthood, characterized by significantly impaired cognitive functioning and deficits in two or more adaptive behaviors. It has historically been defined as an Intelligence Quotient score under 70.[1] Once focused almost entirely on cognition, the definition now includes both a component relating to mental functioning and one relating to individuals' functional skills in their environment. As a result, a person with a below-average intelligence quotient (BAIQ) may not be considered mentally retarded. Syndromic mental retardation is intellectual deficits associated with other medical and behavioral signs and symptoms. Non-syndromic mental retardation refers to intellectual deficits that appear without other abnormalities.

Tracey - posted on 02/10/2011

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Can someone explain how low an IQ of 48 is? what level of functioning is this?

Jackie - posted on 02/10/2011

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I know I am going to upset people but IMO all mentally challenged people should be sterilized at least, if sex is an issue then they should be castrated just like sexual predators since neither one recognizes the damages of forced sex.

Sharon - posted on 02/09/2011

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Seriously Concerned? In your practice you've never run across a mentally impaired woman who was pregnant? If someone will sleep with a retarded woman - they'll sleep with a retarded man. And you must have missed my previous post completely.

Stifler's - posted on 02/09/2011

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Other disabled people that all live in a share house would Concerned Mom.

Meghan - posted on 02/09/2011

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lol! Me apparently, all of my ex's can't be have an IQ that much higher...

Jenni - posted on 02/09/2011

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So it's still ok for mentally capable people to have irresponsible sex with no regard for consequence?
I guess it would be too many tax dollars to ban all the drunk 19 year old American co-eds downtown in my border city from having sex with no regard for consequence.
Perhaps we can force them to take a sex education class before attending our downtown bars. I'm sure after binge drinking all night, by 2 am their IQ is about 48.
Anyways sounds like the guy is a huge perve. I'd be worried about public safety. Don't think banning him from sex is going to solve anything only make it worse. Besides if he doesn't understand the consequences of having sex how the hell do they expect him to understand the consequences of breaking the law?

Sharon - posted on 02/09/2011

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Ok my reply was pretty blithe.

I used to work with mentally handicapped adults. You can't stop them.

The ones I worked with were higher functioning than that man. We kept condoms available and made sure the women took their birth control. They knew why. They didn't totally understand it but they took their pills. I wonder if they switched them over to mirena or shots now...

anyway - because our group only knew people in our group - they just switched sex partners in our group. They were as fickle as teenagers and were changing up all the time. We didn't really worry about STDs because they kept it within the group.

But the girls were easily taken advantage of and occasionally had sex with random strangers and then we had issues.

But when the guys slept with someone outside our group - things got really ugly.

Sharon - posted on 02/09/2011

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I agree with the court. I do think the solution would have been to have him neutered (sorry can't think of the human term) and that isn't proper term either.. ugh make him not fertile...thats what I wanted to say.

LaCi - posted on 02/09/2011

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On one hand, we have a responsibility to protect people from being exploited and/or abused. On another hand, sex is fun and being mentally handicapped doesn't change that instinctual desire. So I believe he should be "allowed" to have a sex life, relationship, whatever. He just needs to be monitored somehow to make sure nothing terrible is happening to him. Sex itself is hardly terrible.

Tracey - posted on 02/09/2011

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From the article I'm guessing that they were living a home for people with mental health problems in which case they both may not understand what they were doing. If it just involved the two of them I would say leave them alone but it sounds like Alan has problems with his desires.

Alan was making "lewd gestures at children and stated that he wanted to kiss them" This goes further than his right to a sex life, if he can't understand that some acts are inappropriate, and if there is a danger his behaviour could lead to pedophilia then yes he should be banned from having sex and also be put in more secure housing while being assessed and or educated re good / bad sex.

Meghan - posted on 02/08/2011

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I will come back and read the article later, but my first reaction is that it takes two people to have sex. I personally wouldn't sleep with anyone unless they had a condom on or I was protected...if he is too stupid to understand the consequences, then I would hope that the other person would...if that make sense.

Katherine - posted on 02/08/2011

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I would think it would Becky, because he is still having unprotected sex, and being so promiscuous.

Becky - posted on 02/08/2011

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An IQ of 48 is pretty low and is definitely classed as a mental handicap, so I agree with this ruling.
However, if he was in a committed monogamous relationship, or even married, would it be the same?

Rosie - posted on 02/08/2011

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std''s can cause death, and pregnancy causes life, so yeah i think it's life or death situation here. :)

Stifler's - posted on 02/08/2011

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What the...? I just hope he doesn't turn straight and get someone pregnant or get AIDS.

Tara - posted on 02/08/2011

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It could be life or death, if this man has an IQ of just 48, he can not comprehend the potential consequences of having sex, AIDS and other STDs make sex a dangerous extra curricular activity for people with an average IQ let alone someone who likely does not understand the concept of sexually transmitted diseases or how to protect oneself and others.
I agree with this ruling, as unusual as it is, it seems like it's in this man's best interest and also protection to the public in the event he did catch something, he would be passing that around to others.

Jenn - posted on 02/08/2011

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But according to that act, they have the right to make life or death decisions. I don't see sex as life or death. So how do they get to decide this?

Amie - posted on 02/08/2011

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After reading the article I think they're doing the right thing.



It makes sense too, if you don't fully understand - How can you really consent and understand the potential consequences?

Rosie - posted on 02/08/2011

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wish this ruling was around for my ex about 12 years ago....fuck.

anyhoo, i think it's a smart thing. i do think it's rather odd though that a man with that IQ would be left alone anyway. that's like seriously handicapped right?

Esther - posted on 02/08/2011

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In response to your question Jenn - according to the article:

Under the judge’s order, the man is now subject to “close supervision” by the local authority that provides his accommodation, in order to ensure he does not break the highly unusual order.

Under the Mental Capacity Act 2005, its judges have the power to make life or death decisions for people deemed to lack the intelligence to make them for themselves – such as ordering that they undergo surgery, have forced abortions, have life-support switched off or be forced to use contraception.

Jenn - posted on 02/08/2011

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I'm not sure I understand. Why is the court involved in this man's sex life? How would anyone stop someone else from having sex? Lots of mentally challenged people have sex already. I don't get it. :/

Katherine - posted on 02/08/2011

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Wow an IQ of 48? Certainly sounds like he doesn't have the mental capacity to know what he's doing.
He is just driven by sex and doesn't realize the consequences of the actions and I completely agree with the opinions.

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