Vaccinations? Yeh or neh?

Deidre - posted on 07/19/2011 ( 154 moms have responded )

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Am I the only Mother on this whole site that thinks vaccinating my child is a good thing? That it's amazing that we live in a world where polio, plagues and epidemics are non-existent in our westernized societies? I would really like to hear both sides but especially from the Yeh's!!!

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Kate CP - posted on 08/01/2011

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Oh for the love of God! Sanitation has little to do with the eradication of these diseases. It's the vaccines that are doing it. You know how we got rid of small pox? BY VACCINATING PEOPLE FOR IT. It's been eliminated off the face of the earth except in Petri dishes. The last known case of naturally occurring small pox infection was in the 70s! That's not because we just started washing our hands more. It's because we vaccinated and vaccinated until the disease was GONE. The overall case-fatality rate for ordinary-type smallpox is about 30%, but varies by pock distribution: ordinary type-confluent is fatal about 50–75% of the time, ordinary-type semi-confluent about 25–50% of the time, in cases where the rash is discrete the case-fatality rate is less than 10%. The overall fatality rate for children younger than 1 year of age is 40%–50%. Hemorrhagic and flat types have the highest fatality rates. The fatality rate for flat-type is 90% or greater and nearly 100% is observed in cases of hemorrhagic smallpox.

If people had heard that the small pox vaccine caused autism way back when then I doubt half of us would even be alive today. The mortality rate for small pox is astounding (as you can see).

Poliomyelitis (aka Polio) is another example of a disease that has been just about erased from the face of the planet except in 3rd world countries where the vaccine isn't readily available and in small communities where parents are too stupid to realize how desperately important it is to vaccinate. The March Of Dimes was originally to fund the research for a cure or vaccine for polio. When Salk made his vaccine and it worked and we vaccinated every child for it the cases of Polio dropped like a friggin' rock. So March Of Dimes changed it's goal to fighting birth defects and now is broadening it's mission statement to improving the health of mothers and babies.

If you think that we can give all the credit to hand washing and better diets you're sorely mistaken. The vaccines work, they are safe for the general population (unless you have a family history of vaccine reaction), and they are necessary to ensure the safety of ALL of our children as a global unit. I said it before and I'll say it again:

THERE IS NO LOGICAL REASON TO NOT VACCINATE YOURSELF OR YOUR KIDS UNLESS YOU HAVE A FAMILY HISTORY OF VACCINE REACTIONS!!!!

[deleted account]

Wow Stephanie calm down I don't want to give you a coronary!!!!!

Ok I haven't said YOU didn't have flu just that the flu vaccine does NOT cause flu...it is an inactivated virus - it is killed before it becomes a vaccine. All illnesses have an incubation period where you don't know you are ill because you have little to no symptoms...so a person could go for a vaccination not knowing they are actually ALREADY sick, so it looks like the vaccine made them sick. Again I am NOT saying YOU didn't have the flu as I said earlier..."I cannot say you didn't have flu I haven't seen your symptoms"!!!!!!!!!

I also didn't say anywhere that you would take ten days to start having symptoms, I said it takes up to ten days for the vaccine to start working (so from having the vaccine to immunity there is a grey area where you could still catch flu), and it could look like the vaccine has given you flu.

I don't believe everything my government says that is why I said they don't lie ALL the time, of course they lie sometimes I'm not stupid, I just don't buy into all the conspiricy crap!

I have yet to see any proof as to why vaccinations are so bad, or that they cause autism or that they are not a good thing for the majority of people, I am more than happy to see the other side and to give the other side a chance to prove I am wrong...I will even change my thoughts on a topic when the other side proivdes me with solid evidence, you have not done that...heresay is not evidence!

Oh and I didn't apologise to you so 'but' does not negate anything because the apology you thought you saw was not an apology I have nothing to apologise for...you are the one who turned to attacking me as a person...attack the argument NOT the person!!!

Kate CP - posted on 08/07/2011

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I hardly think that's an informative article. It's an inflammatory article riddled with holes in it's logic and obviously from a scare mongering source (didja notice the 9/11 conspiracy theory stuff on there, too?). So...no, I'm not putting a lot of stock into that article. I'm putting stock into the fact that vaccines save lives, reduce disease, and have eradicated dangerous pathogens from the face of the earth.

And all anti-vaxxers can go on is that they have toxins in them. So does soda.

Jane - posted on 07/28/2011

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@Ally - the point about the Philadelphia case (if you actually read what I wrote) is that yes, the children of the church were unvaccinated and came down with measles and five died. However, two babies too young to be vaccinated and living near the church but not church members ALSO died from measles because the church chose not to vaccinate their own kids.



If only your own kid is affected by nonvaccination, that would be one thing, but unvaccinated kids pose a risk to other people who are too young to be vaccinated yet or those with immune system difficulties, like my own daughter who was born missing part of her immune system..



And yes, only a relative few children died, but if your child was one of them it would be pretty important to you. And it would seem monstrous to me that someone in the community could follow a course of action that results in the death of someone else's child.

Jodi - posted on 08/13/2011

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Lori, the issue is, we are talking about what CAUSES it, and you actually can't say autism, or other disorders are caused by vaccines, because (1) there is no scientific proof of this, but plenty of studies which show this isn't the case and (2) there is a big possibility that there was mercury (and various other toxins) at trace levels introduced into the child's diet on an ongoing basis before they displayed any signs of autism.



It's all fine to say you avoid certain things AFTER the diagnosis, but my point is that blaming vaccines and the mercury in them for poisoning your children is off the mark and has no scientific backing. Even IF it could be proven that mercury is the culprit, targeting vaccines as the cause is still not logical.



And just for the record....corn syrup isn't actually hugely common in Australia, and I don't eat much fish, so your assumptions that I MUST have consumed too much mercury therefore disrupting my ability to think were quite incorrect. It's just that I removed the stick from my arse years ago and found it to be rather liberating :P

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Jessica - posted on 08/13/2011

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It is a theory I have, not a proven fact. I have no proof except observation that the military is doing anything to the people in it. If they were, I am damn sure they would not tell me.

my own health should not even be up for "opinion". I began to get defensive because you got offensive.

Good. lock it. Then I won't have to respond(and yes, I actually DO have to respond, it is a "disorder").

And miss mod. gee thanks for the "impartial" judging. the way I see it, If they attack something about me, they attack me, and I do not see how not letting that die, is not bullying. Glad you don't have authority over the bullies in our schools.

Ez - posted on 08/13/2011

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** Mod Alert**

Clearly someone missed the prior mod warning. I am locking this thread for review. Sorry to those of you who were actually debating this properly.

Erin - DM Mod

Mrs. - posted on 08/13/2011

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I agree with Dyan about the chemical stuff...

My grandfather worked with the company who developed Agent Orange. He began working for this company in service with the army in the second world war. He made a huge living working for this company...he also had access to chemicals that weren't always safe. Unfortunately, he'd often bring them home to spray around the basement to get rid of a problem with rats. Now, pretty much all of my mother's siblings have developed neurological issues later in life. I have too. My father also worked for this company as one of his jobs before entering the service and having Agent Orange dumped all over him in Vietnam. I'm gonna take a random guess that his neurological issues might just also be linked to that.

My mother's best friend's father was a doctor at this same chemical company. He saw what Agent Orange did to the employee's health early on when many of the adult men developed adult acne problems. Something my own father struggled with throughout his forties.

Now, I'm of the opinion that it is more likely the use of chemical warfare development or testing that harms vets and their children. I do not think they intentionally do this, I think if the military and chemical folks are guilty of anything it is a lack of caring or plotting what will happen when they let people handle or use these substances.

However, that is my opinion based on my family's experience and its history of being involved with the military and the chemical warfare industry.

Kate CP - posted on 08/13/2011

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Stephanie, if you can't handle some one debating you then I suggest you stop posting. The only person who "complained" about your violating no THUMPS was a MODERATOR. She can lock this thread, report you for abuse, and then block you from posting on this community.

I would suggest you take her advice and tone it down a bit rather than beat your chest and start posturing.

Nobody is attacking YOU. We are attacking your argument. If you can't tell the difference then maybe you shouldn't be attempting to debate.

Rosie - posted on 08/13/2011

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the only bullying i see is you telling people you're gonna let loose on them. other people are simply debating your proposals-you know what you do in a debating forum?

as for the military relation, do you not think there are other reasons-like agent orange or the plethera of other poisons that your dad had been exposed to that caused his sperm to have some weird mutation that caused it? that makes more sense to me....

[deleted account]

I went back to your first post you actually say that your PCP is the only one who believes you have flu, everybody else says you can't have it because the virus is not live...



"but they try to keep suggesting that I remember it wrong(except my pcp who has the records in front of him) because they "don't put live germs in it".



It is only the later posts where it seems you feel threatened that you have started to say that your belief that the flu vaccine can give you flu is supported by several medical Professionals....

[deleted account]

I like my facts to actually be fact like I said earlier heresy is not fact. My 'opinion' is not just an opinion it is a fact, the medicL professionals here support my 'opinion'. You have provided no proof of what you say is proven, you claiming that several medical professionals agree with you is not proof that is heresy.



Viruses mutate which is why you need the flu vaccine every year and why we still catch the common cold, the reason it doesn't kill as many as it has in the past is we have better sanitation and hygiene, better medicines (for dehydration for example) and better nutrition (should we choose it), but colds can and do still kill people.

Mrs. - posted on 08/13/2011

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I guess what might be confusing to some people is the proof of what you say is proven. Did I miss a link? Is there a study or something?

Let me just say, I'll be the very first to agree that people know their own bodies best and be understanding about having chronic illness or immune issues...I have them myself. Now, I get the flu shot, because my doc highly suggests it due to being high risk, and have never gotten the flu because of it. I get a low grade fever some times and my body feel weak, but that goes away quickly. Of course, that is quite typical and there are a lot of studies to prove that.

I guess, if what you say is true, and it could be, what do I know, I guess you could understand why someone may not just believe it on face value, without any proof?

That's where I think the misunderstanding is happening.

Now, I'm well aware that there are still people who believe that false study had truth in it or that it is worth at least revisiting the study about autism to see if it is true. I think it's inaccurate and caused a lot of children to be vulnerable to horrible diseases. Still, everyone is in entitled to believe it is worth looking at still.

Jenni - posted on 08/13/2011

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I thought the point of this community was to debate opinions. Am I in the wrong community?

The common cold can still be deadly today. There has been plenty of outbreaks even in the last few years of deadly strains. Your body doesn't build up an immunity to the common cold because it is constantly mutating. Every time you catch a cold it is a new mutated strain. And you can't catch the same strain more than once (generally) because your body has built up an immunity.

Jessica - posted on 08/13/2011

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It has been proven. Some people DO contract it that quickly, and from the vaccine.



This is not opinion, this is proven fact, I caught it from the vaccine. it took YEARS to figure that out. I am not going to start listening to your opinions on it just cuz you say that it is impossible..

Jessica - posted on 08/13/2011

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Kate. leave me be. I am in NO mood for this. It has been proven true for me, and others so leave it be. I will not believe your words when every year, my entire life, every time I get the vaccine I contract it within 48 hours. I have found out others exist like me. My body is not normal. Go force the box on someone yourself when you don't fit in it an see how you like it. I am sick of repeating myself. A multitude of doctors and family members has seen this my entire life. In fact, since I knew no different, I did not know that other people caught things slower until I hit middle school. You can cling to those imposing thoughts in private. The next person who tries to badger me about it will know the TRUE meaning of a violation of THUMPS)and you complained about that last post... well thats me holding back.... I despise bullies. Next time I am just gonna let loose. I was actually trying NOT to violate thumps last time.) since it IS bullying and I will not hold any punches next time. This is your only warning. Also, they do require it, more they make it REALLY hard to not do so, as well as in the hospital they may start them without even asking you. And cps will come take your kids. I don't know where you live, but I live in corruption central, and I can't get out right now due to lack of funds... otherwise we would be gone. what the law states and what they DO are two different thing.

As stated earlier, I do not think either way with autism and vaccines(a more blunt way of putting it). I think both sides should be investigated by someone NOT affiliated with, or bribed by any party involved with the drug companies or any government agency. MAYBE then we can get some real answers. I think the observation of the kids of people in the armed forces, warrants some investigation, but I doubt they will allow that. I am a navy brat. My family has been in the armed forces for generations. I have autism, and each of my siblings has birth defects involving one side of our body being formed differently, as well as abnormally sturdy bones on me, and abnormal brittle bones on my brother. A multitude of other things is different in us. Such as, things go through our systems faster(meds, and anything else we ingest). My roomate is such a kid as well. she has the same things. I would not be even the slightest bit surprised to find this was done on purpose through experimentation. My brother has a few problems, and my sister does as well. I have met others who meet this pattern. It does need to be looked into, for more than JUST autism. I would not be a bit surprised if they were going for human enhancement but screwed up. This IS the military we are talking about. Every SINGLE person I have met with this abnormality was a kid of someone in the armed forces. I have met some without these draw backs, but still with the same abnormal things that could be considered boons in battle (pain resistance, more durable bones, changed muscle structure and/or mass, and a multitude of other things that are too co incidental for my tastes). This may not be due to the vaccines, but it also may. I mean this is human experimentation. I doubt they have pure intentions with that in the least.

Over time, our bodies get used to a sickness and the immunity passes down. That is why a cold is not deadly like it used to be.

I would like to see a study with no affiliation with anybody who has anything to gain from the distribution of vaccines in any way but to keep their own kids healthy. Can you show me one of those?

Rosie - posted on 08/13/2011

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it makes no sense to me that a few jabs of something that is proven to be safer than the alternative (you know, dying, paralyzation, brain damage, kidney failure-those pesky things) is thought to be the the sole cause of autism. how about what we consume, multiple times a day? or slather on our skin multiple times a day? or breathe in constantly? but the few jabs spread out over many months is the culprit?

we eat meat from sickened animals filled with antibiotics and hormones, we change food instead of leaving it whole and slap in some extra vitamins to make it "equal". we drink water filled with poison, we breathe air filled with poison.

look, i agree that the government lies, and is stupid about sooooooooo many things. but you cannot seriously look at what has happened to disease rates after vaccines were introduced and correlate the decline with anything other than vaccines. i've heard ridiculous assumptions like sanitation, and diseases have their own cycles. i've already stated that sanitation hasn't changed since the 1990's so how do you explain the dramatic drop in HIB cases?

i'd also like to see this article that shows that autism studies that prove that there's no link between autism and vaccines, is falsified. as for the big pharmaceutical companies and their interests...andrew wakefield was in the pocket of them as well. he was working on another MMR vaccine of his own. he did not get his license revoked because pharmaceutical companies pushed for it to be done, he MADE STUFF UP. FALSIFIED his study. besides he was doing all of htis to make his own vaccine, something pharmaceutical companies would be quite happy with i'm sure....http://www.bmj.com/content/342/bmj.c5347...

Kate CP - posted on 08/13/2011

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One last factoid: There is NO state in the union that requires vaccines for school or daycare that DOES NOT have a way to opt out of vaccines. So even if your school says they are "required" you can opt out of vaccines by filling out a piece of paper.

Kate CP - posted on 08/13/2011

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Also, it is scientifically proven that it takes 7-10 days for the human body to start exhibiting symptoms of the common cold OR influenza from initial infection. That is why the flu and colds spread so easily: you are MOST contagious BEFORE you are symptomatic.

Kate CP - posted on 08/13/2011

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The only live virus flu vaccine is the intra-nasal one. If you're getting a flu vaccine in a needle it's a killed-vaccine.

Jessica - posted on 08/13/2011

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Toni. Your pissing me off.You are aguing with several medical proffesionals opinion as well as me, not knowing the details I don't think are your business, but if you knew, you would not say that. STOP telling me what does and does not happen to me. I am exposed to a cold, and end up in bed the next day. After I get the vaccine, I get the flu. the tests have been done. end of story. you wanna live in my body? Maybe you are one of those close minded people who thinks that everyone not in your god damn BOX of perception, is lying. I do not take a week to catch a cold, and I do not take a 10 days to start having symptoms to the flu. I would appreciate it if you would shut you obviously over obtuse mouth and squash your pompous ego long enough to realize that several medical professionals, as well as people who have seen this happen will disagree. so in short. shove your OPINION of how MY body works, up your ass. It has been proven, and observed for YEARS. SHOVE IT.

Also, "but" nulls any such apologies. it means your not sorry, you just saying it.

You know, if I hadn't landed my self in something that is explicitly hushed, as a little one, I might not believe they were that bad either. I live in America. The place where anything bad they do is kept hush hush.

Toni. the only thing you hold on here, even in the face of proof, is what you blindly believe when your government says so. You hold onto things with irrational conviction... and attack anything that could possibly be disproof of what you think should be.

Please re assess yourself before attacking anyone again.

[deleted account]

Stephanie, the flu vaccine is made with inactivated flu viruses meaning they are made with dead viruses - you CANNOT get flu from the flu vaccine! Like I said it makes some people feel rough and gives flu like symptoms for others. If you had flu it is because you are potentially susceptible and caught it before the vaccine started working, as the vaccine can take up to 10 days to start working or you already had it before having the vaccine - I cannot say you didn't have flu I haven't seen your symptoms but if you did it was not from the vaccine that was all I was pointing out, if you take offense to that that is on you I am not trying to insult you but facts are facts.

I can't say anything about your government I don't know enough about them but my government don't lie all the time. I'm not big on government conspicy theories so I'd save your breathe because I discredit statements where the government is trying to kill us blah blah blah as complete and utter rubbish.

Lori, I apoogise I did misread your post (although I see you've edited to make a point that the military personel was the parents). Have you ever considered it is something in military childrens environment that may cause them to have a higher rate of autism (as you said earlier) rather than their vaccines.

It is not flippant to say that severe reactons to vaccines happen very rarely it is the truth, I am sure that parents with children who have had reactions would wish they hadn't but likewise parents with children affected by the diseases wish they had been vaccinated, so what's your point?

vaccines do NOT CAUSE AUTISM there are many studies that prove this and only one false study that suggest they do...I know which I believe!

Lori - posted on 08/13/2011

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Most parents of autistic children try, at some point, different diets to see if any of it has an effect on their child. We've done it ourselves. The only thing avoiding corn has done for my son is help with his EE. His autistic behaviors have not changed since cutting out corn and its numerous derivatives from his diet. As a parent of two children with autism, numerous other special needs, and an adopted child with special needs, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I'm pretty sure I know more families with autistic children than most, probably more than you do. I've tried it all with my kids. Most families have. Some children may benefit from a special diet, some do not. I would say most do not. The ones that do typically improve with the elimination of petroleum derivatives, processed or pasteurized dairy products, and gluten. Again, those cases are not the norm.

Jodi - posted on 08/13/2011

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You so missed my point. Which doesn't surprise me. And then you have to resort to a personal attack because you can't think of a decent contribution to the debate.

Lori - posted on 08/13/2011

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Well, Jodi, then my family doesn't have to worry, because we don't eat fish and we avoid corn syrup at all costs because my oldest child is allergic. I think I would avoid corn in most forms even if he weren't because more than 85% of the corn grown in the US is genetically modified, corn serves no nutritional purpose, and in fact can cause many issues. I do my homework. It seems you don't, maybe you've been consuming too much mercury yourself and can no longer think of decent words to use and must resort to using foul language.

Jodi - posted on 08/13/2011

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"I think that the parents of a child who has died from a vaccine and the parents of a child who has suffered irreversible brain damage as a result of a vaccine would argue with you about your flippant attitude in saying, "very rarely" do vaccines have serious side effects."

Surprisingly, I am also pretty sure the parents of a child who has suffered severe side effects or died of a disease preventable by a vaccine are not sitting there saying "I am so glad I didn't vaccinate my child". What a perfectly ridiculous argument. Honestly, the serious side effects are rarer than the serious side effects of the diseases would be if the vaccines were not available.

Lori - posted on 08/13/2011

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Toni, if you would reread my post, I said they give military personnel experimental vaccines, including some that are never approved for general use. Children are not military personnel. It can, however, affect children if they have not yet been conceived when the parent is vaccinated or if the mother is vaccinated with an experimental vaccine while pregnant. It seems that you are only comprehending what you want to when you read. I think that the parents of a child who has died from a vaccine and the parents of a child who has suffered irreversible brain damage as a result of a vaccine would argue with you about your flippant attitude in saying, "very rarely" do vaccines have serious side effects. If you would like an example of how well our government treats people- look at the new proposal for cutting military retirement. Look at how much Congress gets paid vs. our soldiers who actually risk their lives both by receiving experimental medical treatment (which they cannot opt out of and they are NOT of prior to enlisting) and by serving in a combat zone. Consider that military pay is on a several year freeze when they are underpaid to start with. You think our government doesn't hush things up, that they thoroughly test and research every vaccine they approve and only have your best interest at heart? You are sadly mistaken!

Jodi - posted on 08/13/2011

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***sigh** seriously, there is no arguing with stupid on this issue. Some people will just always think the disease is better than vaccinating. You just can't save those people from themselves. Like the woman the other day who suggested exposing her 12 month old whooping cough through a play date in order to develop her child's immunity. Fucking stupid. I suppose she'd think exposing him to polio would be the way to go too, right? Downright irresponsible.

Vaccines and autism. Pffft. Seriously there are that many studies that show that vaccines DON'T cause autism, and you all get hung up on one fucking study that showed evidence of a link.....that turned out to be falsified? Do I need to even say what I think?

And if traces of mercury are so poisonous, then you'd better stop eating any sort of seafood, in particular fish, along with anything containing corn syrup. Yes, that's right corn syrup. Oh, holy shit!! Amazingly, the use of CORN SYRUP has increased over the time vaccines have been developed too!! And given that mercury poisoning is causing autism, wow, who would have THOUGHT it could be THAT crap causing it???? Hmm???? Did you know even your child's DIAPERS have corn syrup in them. Ya don't think THIS could be a problem? Imagine, the kid wears those all day every day for YEARS. But no, you have to blame the trace elements of mercury in a single freaking vaccine. Well, I guess that's logical.

Jessica - posted on 08/13/2011

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Man.. I just had to look at my email when I got outa the shower,now gotta comment before bed.

I agree with kandice, Toni. I was paying attention to that, and it is not uncommon for them to hush something like that up. I don't think it causes autism per say... but that is because I believe that if you are meant to be different, then you will be. However, our bodies often adapt because of such things. autism may be an adaptation, as not well as most of you will probably take that theory.

And yes. The flu vaccine can give you the flu. Did you not see the part about my PCP looking at the charts. The flu is a very serious thing for me to get, as I am in that category of high risk, as in every time I get the flu, I could die. At the very least, it is predictable and we are prepared... so as such, I do not get it as bad because we already are prepared to treat it the moment it starts. At least the predictability keeps me outta the hospital... most times. I have a friend whose in that category as well, and her doc told her not to take it at all. Others exist who somehow catch it from that tiny bit of live bacteria, and it is something real that happens. I am however lucky in that we are able to work with it so that I do not end up in the ER... however most like me are not so lucky(please note that not everyone who gets it from the vaccine is like me, I was more referring to the combination of conditions and the vaccine making things caught instead of prevented). I am sure though, that your intentions in telling me that it was not the flu were in no way meant as an insult so I will say nothing on that sore spot you touched with the not knowing my own body insinuation in that statement.

I believe Lori's statement has some validity, and it should be honestly looked into.

Toni I have a question specifically for you.
Since when, in any of your living memory, has our government been uncorrupted and honest with the people?

For the rest of you. something to chew on. An example if you will. Pot, having no ill effects, and in fact nullified by "overdose", is in fact illegal in America(mostly), and the FDA refuses to put any stamp of approval on it, however, They approve harmful drugs every day, that if they get enough press on the serious side effects, get recalled, "re done" and re distributed with little to no change done to them.

Since when has our government or any affiliated organization, ever been honest when it could lose them power or money?

[deleted account]

Kandice, The study done that showed autism was caused by the MMR has been disproven, the doctor who showed the link was found to be lying for money...the press picked up with the story and scare mongered as they do, the MMR doesn't cause autism!



Stephanie the flu vaccine does not give you the flu, it makes you feel a little rough why your body gets the immunity to the strain of flu they are vaccinating against, it is NOT the flu. You can still get the flu when vaccinated but it will be less severe than if you wasn't vaccinated...that being said in the UK we don't give the flu shot to everyone just the high risk categories, so it's not one I think people should have as a standard.



Lori what a silly argument if they give military kids vaccines that don't get approved how does that discredit childhood vaccinations that have been approved...there is a reason some vaccines are not approved and that is because they have dangerous side effects...the vaccines that are approved very rarely have major side effects and when they do it is because of something else such as an allergy AND autism is NOT one of those side effects!

Lori - posted on 08/12/2011

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Actually, the idea that there is no longer "any mercury at all" in vaccines is false. Some vaccines still do contain mercury- but are allowed to be called mercury free if they contain under a certain amount. ANY amount of mercury is POISON. Formaldehyde, which is present in many vaccines, is a known carcinogen. And for those of you who go around spouting that the study done to disprove the autism vaccine link is totally factual and the one done showing there is a link- do your research!! The doctor that did the original study had his license revoked because pharmaceutical companies pressured it to be done. The study "disproving" it was recently found to be SERIOUSLY FLAWED and the doctor who did the study is being brought up on FRAUD charges pertaining to THAT study. Consider that military children are some of the most vaccinated children in the US and routinely receive vaccines not required by the states in which they live (but are required by the installation CYS to participate in daycare or sports). Military personnel (the parents) are also given experimental vaccines, many which are never approved for use in the general population. Military children have the HIGHEST rate of autism. Coincidence? I think not.

Jessica - posted on 08/12/2011

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I get the flu vaccine every year, and every fricken year I get the flu no even 2 days later. co incidence? nope. but they try to keep suggesting that I remember it wrong(except my pcp who has the records in front of him) because they "don't put live germs in it". YES they do. Actually they put a miniscule percentage, not even enough to need to put it on a label or list it(I studied this in high school... yeesh), and actually like in anything "fda" approved, it DOES have harmful ingredients.



It is just a choice, do you risk the illness or the vaccine. It is also required for school and cps will come for "medical neglect" here too. I don't know about other states, but here it blows.





I don't think it causes autism, but just cuz they didn't "find" it till them does not mean it wasn't their.



well thats all I have to say for now. night. happy debating ladies.

Sherri - posted on 08/12/2011

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You go Kate. What Kate is saying is 100% true.

Sadly Kandice your information is really flawed.

I would be looking into environmental factors for Autism including what is being put in your food, but it certainly is NOT vaccines that has 100% been proven to be fact.

There is also no harmful ingredients used in the vaccines. Also pharmaceutical companies are not liable when a patient has a extremely rare unforeseen effect from an allergy to a vaccine.

Kate CP - posted on 08/12/2011

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Kandice, no body is saying that it is or should be mandatory to get vaccines. It's not even really required to attend school or daycare. The vaccine companies also donate TONS of vaccines to impoverished nations and health organizations to help improve quality and length of life in third world countries. Autism is on the rise because of several factors, NONE of which are from vaccines. How do we know that? Vaccines have been around for a LONG time. The first MMR was licensed for us in the US in 1971. DTP (now DTaP) was licensed for use in the US in 1942 and was redesigned in 1981 to be acellular. Autism was first officially diagnosed as early as the 1940s and was established as it's own mental disorder in the 60s.

So, the vaccines have been around for a long time. When they first became common use we didn't see a huge increase in autistic kids. We saw a huge DECREASE in sick and dead kids.

Vaccines ARE safer: there are less heavy metals (no mercury at all any more) and contain less "toxins" than ever before. And we do only give the necessary ones at the appropriate ages. If they weren't necessary we wouldn't give them!

And lastly, pharmaceutical companies ARE being held liable to a degree. In courts across the nation if a judge or jury determines a vaccine caused an injury that family is awarded money.

I have said it SO MANY times it makes my head ache: IF YOU HAVE A FAMILY HISTORY OF VACCINE REACTIONS DO NO VACCINATE YOUR KIDS. If you DON'T have a history of vaccine reactions then there is ABSOLUTELY no logical reason to NOT vaccinate your kids. Period. None. You can't give me a good reason to NOT do it if you don't have a family history of vaccine reactions.

http://mumsandmoms.proboards.com

Kandice - posted on 08/12/2011

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Keep in mind that there are some of us that believe vaccinations were originally intended for a great purpose, but unfortunately that purpose has been extorted by the pharmaceutical companies who are continually working on creating new vaccines and making other ones cheaper to manufacture so that they can be more profitable. You simply cannot put your child's health at risk based on the minimal information given by your doctor. The rest of us are advocates of being informed of harmful ingredients and potential side effects. Let mothers make the decision. Keep in mind that when legisters begin making those decisions for us about what can be injected into our own or child's body , we have big problems. The epidemic of children with Autism is 1 in 120. I haven't seen any studies that prove that the vaccines are NOT causing these neurological issues. Make the vaccines safer. Give only the necessary ones and at appropriate ages. Inform mothers of the child's risks and their rights. Lastly , hold pharmaceutical companies accountable if they screw up. It's not fair that they have protection and the victims and families harmed by vaccines are left with all the burden without help from the drug companies or the government agencies mandating vaccines.

Jessica - posted on 08/03/2011

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My kids are vaccinated. Then again, in my country you have no choice... unless you belong to a select group they "turn the blind eye" to....

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 08/01/2011

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Go Kate Go!!! I especially loved the part about people being too dumb to realize that your best defense from a disease is vaccination.

In 1917-1919 there was a world wide flu pandemic where thousands of people died. This included large developed cities where there was public sanitation and indoor plumbing. People did know more about the spread of illnesses then.

Tammy - posted on 08/01/2011

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The only thing this new SANITATION thing has done for us is to make more antibiotic resistant infections and illinesses.

Tammy - posted on 08/01/2011

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My doctor told me to just give it to the baby myself. Just make sure to tell the public health nurse when I take her for her other needles.

Rosie - posted on 08/01/2011

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http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/6mis...


Improved socioeconomic conditions have undoubtedly had an indirect impact on disease. Better nutrition, not to mention the development of antibiotics and other treatments, have increased survival rates among the sick; less crowded living conditions have reduced disease transmission; and lower birth rates have decreased the number of susceptible household contacts. But looking at the actual incidence of disease over the years can leave little doubt of the significant direct impact vaccines have had, even in modern times. Here, for example, is a graph showing the reported incidence of measles from 1950 to the present.



There were periodic peaks and valleys throughout the years, but the real, permanent drop in case of measles in the U.S. coincided with the licensure and wide use of measles vaccine beginning in 1963. Graphs for most other vaccine-preventable diseases show a similar pattern. Are we expected to believe that better sanitation caused incidence of each disease to drop, just at the time a vaccine for that disease was introduced?

*The incidence rate of hepatitis B has not dropped so dramatically yet because the infants we began vaccinating in 1991 will not be at high risk for the disease until they are at least teenagers. We therefore expect about a 15 year lag between the start of universal infant vaccination and a significant drop in disease incidence.

Hib vaccine is another good example, because Hib disease was prevalent until just a few years ago, when conjugate vaccines that can be used for infants were finally developed. (The polysaccharide vaccine previously available could not be used for infants, in whom most cases of the disease were occurring.) Since sanitation is not better now than it was in 1990, it is hard to attribute the virtual disappearance of Haemophilus influenzae disease in children in recent years (from an estimated 20,000 cases a year to 1,419 cases in 1993, and dropping) to anything other than the vaccine.

Varicella can also be used to illustrate the point, since modern sanitation has obviously not prevented nearly 4 million cases each year in the United States. If diseases were disappearing, we should expect varicella to be disappearing along with the rest of them. But nearly all children in the United States get the disease today, just as they did 20 years ago or 80 years ago. Based on experience with the varicella vaccine in studies before licensure, we can expect the incidence of varicella to drop significantly now that a vaccine has been licensed for the United States. Active surveillance in a number of countries and cities demonstrate a 76-86% decrease in varicella cases from 1995-2001.

Finally, we can look at the experiences of several developed countries after they let their immunization levels drop. Three countries - Great Britain, Sweden, and Japan - cut back the use of pertussis vaccine because of fear about the vaccine. The effect was dramatic and immediate. In Great Britain, a drop in pertussis vaccination in 1974 was followed by an epidemic of more than 100,000 cases of pertussis and 36 deaths by 1978. In Japan, around the same time, a drop in vaccination rates from 70% to 20%-40% led to a jump in pertussis from 393 cases and no deaths in 1974 to 13,000 cases and 41 deaths in 1979. In Sweden, the annual incidence rate of pertussis per 100,000 children 0-6 years of age increased from 700 cases in 1981 to 3,200 in 1985. It seems clear from these experiences that not only would diseases not be disappearing without vaccines, but if we were to stop vaccinating, they would come back.

Of more immediate interest is the major epidemic of diphtheria which occurred in the former Soviet Union from 1989 to 1994, where low primary immunization rates for children and the lack of booster vaccinations for adults have resulted in an increase from 839 cases in 1989 to nearly 50,000 cases and 1,700 deaths in 1994. There have already been at least 20 imported cases in Europe and two cases in U.S. citizens working in the former Soviet Union.

R - posted on 08/01/2011

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Yes, it is amazing, but the demise of these illnesses has more to do with modern sanitation than with injecting our children with toxic substances comprised virus-laced foreign DNA made by bigPharma for their own profit, not for the health and welfare of the masses.

Jodi - posted on 08/01/2011

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Ah well, that explains why my kids never had it on their schedules :) To be honest I don't know much about it because I've never had to.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 08/01/2011

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You vaccinate your pet you should vaccinate your kids. 'Nough said

[deleted account]

Jodi, Rotovirus came in the year my 1st son was born so 2008. My daughter never recieved it but my other 2 have both had it. If i'm thinking of the right one it's given orally and at the first 3 sets of immunisations.

Charlie - posted on 08/01/2011

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Sorry, I just asked my mum who was also there ( long story but it is customary to stay with the deceased even in the morgue in her country and I was young , 12 years old) she said it was measles , still that little girls face haunts me. she says even today they have to line up for the vaccinations because of the lack of availability and the very real dangers they face everyday.



I got confused with the incident during my pregnancy when the asshole parent sent their unvaxxed child with rubella to school while I was teaching , I had my vaccinations but it is still a worry to think she had no idea if I was or not and may have severly disfigured , disabled or killed my baby.

Jodi - posted on 08/01/2011

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".vaccines work best and offer the most protection for about 10-15 years."

For some people vaccines DON'T last that long either. So assuming that if someone is up to date on their boosters doesn't mean they are immune. What about women with immune disorders? Allergies to the vaccine? Other medical reasons for not being able to have the vaccine? We don't live in your perfect world where personal responsibility for boosters means everyone should be immune. It simply doesn't work that way.

So as I said, stiff shit to those women who get pregnant and aren't immune, right? It's great that YOUR immunity status is all good, but what about your children? If we all decided not to immunise our children against rubella, then there is no protection for the unborn babies of those who have little or no immunity, nor protection of the youngest members of society, who are the most likely to suffer the complications of encephalitis. So it's wonderful that you feel that only your children are your responsibility and that you have no community responsibility in the matter.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 08/01/2011

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I actually need to get my 4 month old her 2nd vaccinations. But I always vaccinate both my children. I'm in health care and I have to be around people who are very sick at times. Once a year I have to get tested for TB myself because of work. I don't know why some parents don't vaccinate their children

Amanda - posted on 08/01/2011

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just to say nothing has ever happend to anybody in my family children included that got vaccinated and i don't really know any children who do but as with any kind of medacine u can have a reaction. its the risk i am willing to take to make sure that my children are protected from everything that i can protect them from. I have been up to date with all vaccinations myself since birth except for when the h1n1 came out. i was to busy working i managed to find the time to get my son vaccinated and was suppose to make an appointment for me seperate but could not get the time off work and sure enough i had the h1n1. we caught it before it got to serious but i ended up in bed for 3 days and off work for a week. i am not making that mistake again.

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