Validictorian uses electricity, I say

√v^√v^√♥ - posted on 06/10/2011 ( 47 moms have responded )

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The other posting is getting really long, so I hope this okay. I would just like to discuss 1 simple aspect. Did she really use electricity?

She chose not to speak in front of a crowd using a microphone, but she is using speakers and to project a pre-recorded taping of her speach.

To me, I would say she is still using electricity. Even if she doesn't press the button herself, she caused electricity to be used on a day where she is supposed to avoid the use of it.

Just on this matter please, what do you think?


For anyone who hasn't read the story: Vacaville High School valedictorian Carolyn Fine has struggled over the past few weeks to find a balance between her Jewish faith and her duties as valedictorian, which include the honor of speaking at her graduation ceremony Thursday. Carolyn said she will begin observing the holiday of Shavu’ot, and that means she can’t use anything that requires electricity until after dark on Thursday. After considering her dilemma — giving the speech with a microphone or following her faith — she chose the latter. Fortunately, school officials came up with a plan to let her do both.“They prerecorded my speech and they are going to play that while I’m standing up there,” Carolyn said. (shortened version)

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Kellie - posted on 06/10/2011

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But Lacye how is that different from standing in a room with the lights on?

Kellie - posted on 06/10/2011

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"However, they aren't allowed to use the electricity, but it doesn't say they can't have somebody else do it for them and it doesn't mean they can't enjoy the benefits of modern technology. :D"

If that were true Lacye then she could have been driven to the ceremony and not have had to walk there.

Johnny - posted on 06/10/2011

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If I was to live in my house never turn on the lights, run any appliances, etc. but allowed my husband, child and others to do so, I would still be enjoying the conveniences of the electricity and I'd still get the bill. Just because she does not flip the switch does not mean she is not receiving the benefits of the generated power. If she was serious, she would have given the speech in the dark, in person, without a microphone.

√v^√v^√♥ - posted on 06/11/2011

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In the other posting, someone talked about going to Europe and seeing elevators stop at every floor on that day in order to help everyone with this religion on those days from having to push the button for which floor they wanted themselves.

Also, people from this religion going to Bars to watch sports cannels because they couldn't have their TVs on.

The elevator thing is a perfect example of a loophole someone else has made for them to take advantage of, because if they REALLY wanted to conserve energy, they would take the stairs AND be mad that this business is consuming MORE energy by making elevators stop at every floor instead of just the ones needed!

The whole going to the bar to watch TV on a day you are supposed to avoid consuming energy..... they are still benefiting and that is them personally finding a loophole around their religion themselves.

As I understand it, their religion says to avoid consumption. I can understand going to the bar instead of watching your TV set. However, I would think they would be mad at the elevator thing for purposefully using MORE energy just for these people on a day when they are trying to conserve energy.

I agree with petitioning to have it moved / stepping down for the speach. That would have made more sense to me from her religious stand point.

Logic is not gone in religion....... there are many great minds past and present who use logic to help explain their religion. To understand it. To apply it to our everyday lives. To say that logic is gone from religion is to say that any and all believers and non-thinking beings without the use of logic. Which is just not true.

So this girls logic is just mulled in my point of view and I don't think she did anything grand. Just found a bizarre loophole that makes sense to her, but not to me..... nor a few others I think.

You did use electricity on the day of the show by having the PVR on, taping your show on a day you weren't supposed to be using electricty.

Therefore, you might as just well watch the show, because your PVR is running. And you planned for it to run on that day. So you premeditated your religious crime lol

Perminence has nothing to do with the dog arguement and the dog example was brilliant as it explains the shift in morals over to someone else just so you do not have to deal with the consequences which is exactly what this girl did.

And if we are just discussing excess amounts of energy being used, she seems to have used twice as much because she had to record it, then hook the recorder up and then project it through speakers versus just projecting it through speakers. So she ended up using more energy.

And if you really want to throw a big freaking WOW that's an out there idea into this theory....... we are all energy. Think of how much energy and thought this poor girl put into all of this and all the extra ENERGY that went into avoiding her 'issues' with her religion and this date aaaaaaaaaand how much energy we are all wasting debating how much energy she was using LOL wow, this chick is doomed!!!!! :P

Johnny - posted on 06/10/2011

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But electricity was obviously required to run the tape on the day of. Her choice actually still required the use of electricity to present her speech on the sabbath. If you set your PVR for a show that plays on the Sabbath, you are just pre-arranging your use of electricity on the day of. You are still using the electricity to do your bidding on the actual day. You are just not pressing the buttons themselves on that day.

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√v^√v^√♥ - posted on 06/11/2011

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Very strange! I was just wondering because someone told me it happens to people sometimes. That bites! I would want A name lol :)

April - posted on 06/11/2011

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hi nichole. my name is april. sometimes my name shows and sometimes it doesn't. it's rather annoying, isn't it? i want to be heard AND seen, lol!

√v^√v^√♥ - posted on 06/11/2011

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Sorry, your name isn't appearing. Do you have one or is this on purpose? :)

April - posted on 06/11/2011

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what is the point in avoiding something while still receiving its benefits? i just don't get that. to me it sounds like trying to find loopholes in your own religious beliefs. if loopholes necessary, then why believe in the first place?

April - posted on 06/11/2011

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what is the point in avoiding something while still receiving its benefits? i just don't get that. to me it sounds like trying to find loopholes in your own religious beliefs. if loopholes are necessary, then why believe in the first place?

[deleted account]

The use of toiler paper??? Wow. What did they use to wipe their butts? I wonder if way back in the olden days they used the same logic, that nothing modern could be used, so they used things that were from the olden days OF the olden days. I guess this is a discipline of sorts.

Johnny - posted on 06/10/2011

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Actually, some do. My neighbors used NO power on the Sabbath. Nothing modern at all. Everything was unplugged. They walked to the synagogue, walked home, ate a cold dinner (since you can't build a backyard fire in the city), performed some other rituals and went to bed. For a while the father was really into it and had even banned the wearing of modern fabrics, the use of toilet paper, or anything else of modern manufacture or disposable nature. There were a few tense years, a lot of yelling and then he gave it up.

Caitlin - posted on 06/10/2011

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But they don't unplug their fridges on sabbath either, they still turn on.. The clocks still run as always, they don't shut off the power for the whole house on those days. The act they don't do is use more than is necessary for their daily activities.. If they turned off all power I would see no sense in it, but that isn't the case, they just don't use excess amounts.

Johnny - posted on 06/10/2011

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Yes, I'd agree Kellie. I don't think that her right to set things up this way is being questioned. She's not hurting anyone or forcing anyone to follow her beliefs. I think people are just debating the logic of the set-up that was chosen as it relates to the claimed reason for the practice. It doesn't add up logically. But then, as has been said, that's not really the point of religion or ritual.

Caitlin - posted on 06/10/2011

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Well, i see it as her having used electricity prior to the event, but not on that day, so I don't really see it as an issue. It's just like if I set my PVR for a show that plays on sabbath, and watch it the next day, I didn't actually use the electricity on the day of the show, the PVR was preset, I pressed no buttons, I activated nothing on THAT day and that's what matters in my mind. (now i'm not religious at all - just using that as an example).

I don't feel the killing the dog thing is an accurate comparisson, becuase it's something that is ultimately permanent whereas this situation is not, it's a simple matter of planning in advnace to ensure that you are respecting your beliefs. The tape was taken beforehand - therefore her act in using the electricity was on that day the recording was done. If she did not do the speech, the electricity would have been used regadless for someone else to do a speech, so unless you want to analyze the extra amount of electricity required to run all the equipment, it's really a non issue.

Kellie - posted on 06/10/2011

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I don't think anyone is questioning her right to her beliefs (I KNOW I'm not), I think that we are questioning the fact that she still used electricity, but is hiding behind the fact that SHE didn't turn the light on so it's ok for her to be in the room while electricity is being used, rather than owning the fact that she DID (IMO) still use it.

Caitlin - posted on 06/10/2011

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Where religion exists - logic is long gone. As opposed to looking for logic, why can't we just accept that she has a right to her beliefs, no matter how quirky as any other religious person, as long as it's not inconveniencing anyone else (which it's not - it's not like they are taking anohter person of her religion and FORCING them to push the button to start the video, lol..)

Dorota - posted on 06/10/2011

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if she's that relifious she should have petitioned the school way in advanced to have set a different graduation date.... I don't see how it would have been a problem to have it on a wed night instead..... much ado about nothing IMO

Lacye - posted on 06/10/2011

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I don't know. I'm just saying that she wanted to speak at her graduation with out compromising her beliefs and she found the best way possible for her. I think that is something to admire. Not questioning why she did it or what constitutes as her following her belief correctly. She did what was best for her.

Lacye - posted on 06/10/2011

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She would have been riding in the car so it would have still been a use of modern technology.

I'll admit that it is confusing for the most part. I wouldn't have done it. But I can understand where she is coming from for doing it.

√v^√v^√♥ - posted on 06/10/2011

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Exactly, Kellie...

Because of all these, I can't help but conclude that her logic is off. Even if her intentions to her religion were noble and good...... she didn't analyze it well enough to resonate as 'doing something great' in my head.
Boooring.

Lacye - posted on 06/10/2011

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However, they aren't allowed to use the electricity, but it doesn't say they can't have somebody else do it for them and it doesn't mean they can't enjoy the benefits of modern technology. :D

Rosie - posted on 06/10/2011

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i was also unaware that she was going to BE there. i must of not read the other story very well, lol. i thought she was going to have someone record it for her and then play it at the ceremony that she would not be attending.

√v^√v^√♥ - posted on 06/10/2011

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Agreed. Thank you Johnny, that was a gorgeous analogy

Lacye - posted on 06/10/2011

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I don't think she used electricity. She had told the school officials that she would be happy to step down and give the honor of speaking to somebody else. They worked to make sure she would be able to do it but not do it at the same time. She didn't touch the tape recorder, she didn't turn on the speakers. She personally did not use any kind of electricity. As for the camera, they aren't allowed to use any type of modern technology. So that would include allowing another person to take pictures with her because cameras are still part of modern technology.

√v^√v^√♥ - posted on 06/10/2011

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I just think she went through the same amount of electricity to avoid using electricity.

Johnny - posted on 06/10/2011

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She is very lucky that she is not living in a community full of those who believe the same way. Otherwise she'd be giving a speech in the dark without a microphone. Although I suppose they just would have scheduled it for a non-sabbath day...

This thread seems to be looking for logical thinking where only blind faith exists....

√v^√v^√♥ - posted on 06/10/2011

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YES! Jenny, another dead on point to make. Awesome!!

√v^√v^√♥ - posted on 06/10/2011

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If someones beliefs are that strong to where they are trying to avoid doing something, then have someone else do it......... I don't think it's morally correct. I think it's exactly that dog scenario Dorota posted.

Jenny - posted on 06/10/2011

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"Observing the holiday also means Carolyn can’t use a car to get to graduation, so she’ll walk; she’ll also forego graduation pictures, since a camera requires power."

If it is just items she's using herself why can't she have pictures taken? She's not using the camera. It's just cherry picking.

Rosie - posted on 06/10/2011

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it's just a simple ritual. like not eating meat on fridays for catholics. do you guys feel it's the same thing as that? would the catholics you know get upset that someone ate meat on friday? i knwo it's not quite the same thing, but similar.

Dorota - posted on 06/10/2011

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she's against using it herself because it's sooo horrible for her to do it, apparently God is completely against it, so if that's her belief she's damning people by getting them to do it for her. And once again if I'm against doing something MYSELF because of a strong conviction about how bad it is.... then I wouldn't want someone else to do it for me... hence the kill the dog comment

Rosie - posted on 06/10/2011

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true but she's not against using electricity, she's against using it HERSELF. there's a difference. :)

√v^√v^√♥ - posted on 06/10/2011

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Dyan, the shoot the dog because I'm against killing animals is more of what I was trying to talk about. Because if I was against something I wouldn't ask others to do it for me.

Rosie - posted on 06/10/2011

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or your employer could not pay you cause even though you're doing the work, they came up with the idea, it's their store. etc. same idea. :)

Rosie - posted on 06/10/2011

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if you yourself are responsible for the lawn being mowed like nichole said, then one would also assume that you could keep some of the money people would pay another for mowing the lawn. since using her logic she mowed the lawn as well even though she didn't touch it, she just put the whole thing in motion.

√v^√v^√♥ - posted on 06/10/2011

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LOL oh I am going to have to stand up for you on this Dorota if someone attacks you for this whole dog comment :) priceless and dead on. I just didn't know how to put it. But that was perfect. You even hit the moral aspect of it like I couldn't. Yay

Dorota - posted on 06/10/2011

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it's just that she's making someone do something she is against doing herself.... like hey you why don't you go ahead and shoot this dog because i'm against animal killing.....

Dorota - posted on 06/10/2011

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LOL Nichole, I read that whole other thread and this is exactly what I was thinking the whole time!!! I agree too, so it's not ok for her to use electricity but it's ok to make someone else use it.... so save herself and damn everyone else? don't get it.......

√v^√v^√♥ - posted on 06/10/2011

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On another note, I just read that they do not have to avoid all electricity, just conserve it. So now I'm wondering how much she really conserved by having to be video taped, and then projected by speakers into the audience, verses just having read it to everyone with the microphone.

√v^√v^√♥ - posted on 06/10/2011

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They asked you to mow the lawn. They caused you to do it. So both of us are right I would think

Rosie - posted on 06/10/2011

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when you mow someones lawn for them are they mowing the lawn, or are you? even if you use THEIR lawnmower, or THEIR lawn, are you mowing it or not?

√v^√v^√♥ - posted on 06/10/2011

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But she's causing them to use it for her. Isn't that the same thing?

Rosie - posted on 06/10/2011

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technically SHE isn't using it. other people are using it for her, so no, i don't feel she's using electricity herself.

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