Was this teacher out of line?

[deleted account] ( 212 moms have responded )

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2011/03/07/dis...

Basically, the 7 year-old boy acted up *again* in class and the teacher, unsure about whether his mother was getting any of the disciplinary notes she had sent home, stapled the note to the child's shirt.

The mother is furious, saying her son was publicly humiliated (because the note was where people could see it - the teacher says she had him put on his sweatshirt, but he says she didn't... No real way of telling if she did or not).

Thoughts? Opinions?

MOST HELPFUL POSTS

Jenn - posted on 03/11/2011

2,683

36

96

The fact that you would hit the teacher would explain why your child would be getting sent home with note after note about how they were getting into trouble at school.

Vegemite - posted on 03/13/2011

916

0

17

I must be the harshest mother. If this was my kid my response would have been. " Oh darling were you embarrassed? Good stop talking in class. If you don't like being embarrassed don't do it to your teacher."

Jessica - posted on 03/11/2011

986

20

64

I can see how the mom may be overreacting, but the kid said that others laughed at him for it and he felt humiliated.

“Everyone was starting to laugh at me,” the child said. “That’s when I got the feeling; I was angry and mad.”

That struck a chord with me; I don't think its right to make a kid feel humiliated by his peers, no matter how much of a pain in the ass he's being. I don't think its the shirt the mom is concerned with, its that the teacher did something to make her kid be ridiculed by peers. I'd be concerned about that too.

Couldn't she just have made a phone call to the mom?

Veronica - posted on 03/18/2011

1,539

61

94

I just read through half of the posts ... In my opinion with what is said, and what we know here -- I 'get' the humilation that this child might of felt - but sometimes humilation has to be a part of learning too. I think in this society parents want to blanket their children's emotions, and keep them safe and unharmed, and we want our kids to bloom and blossom and be full-rounded individuals. BUT people, there are TRIALS AND TRIBULATIONS that we ALL have to go through in this world to LEARN. As much as I agree that there are most likely underlying issues that this kid is acting out -- there is a word called consequence and responsibility of your actions. If you are going to disrupt class, there will be repicussions for them. Maybe the note seems like it goes too far, but perhaps the teacher was a her final point and HAD to be drastic.

Growing up, we rebelled after my parents divorced -- we did 'bad' stuff. Drugs, drinking, and sex. (and rock and roll too i guess! hahaha) My mom told everyone what we were doing! grandparents, aunts, cousins, family friends (she'd tell a few, the rest would know about it by the end of the day) THAT was humiliating. I felt bad as it was that I was having sex at a young age, and doing pot -- then to have the 'whole world' know about it made it worse. But you know what??? That 'guilt/shame/humilation' drove me to become a better person. I didnt want others to look down upon me, and to know of me for these things, so I stopped, cleaned up my act, and became responsible. I also got support and help from them.

So really, in conclusion, i dont see the harm in the note -- the mother should have realized that it has gotten to the point that the kids behavior was bad enough, that this note should have made her do something about it.

I had to deal with my son last year - he was only 5 going on six - i got a few notes from the teacher of bad behavior he was projecting - and only one phone call when it had gotten to the point where the principal called!! But, after talking to the teacher, and principal, and getting down to the problem of why he was misbehaving, we were able to make an action plan - and found out that he was having difficulties with my husband's absents from home (my hubby works at night, and only sees the kids sat. morning and sunday) this was affecting my son THAT much. If the teacher would have pinned a note to my son's shirt, i wouldnt have fussed about it. The main thing was that I communicated with the teachers, and we got to the bottom of the issue. It seems like this mother wasn't doing anything to get to the bottom of her son's misbehavior - and is lashing out because she is guilty of her own negligence to her child.

But im going all over the place with this now. I guess my main point - is sometimes the only way to learn, is to go through consequenses to learn it. A note isnt abusive - my sister had a teacher who pulled hair (teacher was dismissed) - but pinning a note isnt anything compared to hair pulling/spanking/yelling-cussing-etc. are far worse actions a teacher could take.

Lesa - posted on 03/17/2011

150

6

6

Everyone is so upset over a child having a note pinned to him?? Why aren't we more enranged for those children whose time was wasted while the teacher has to "deal" with this child. Honestly, as a teacher I am tired of having to waste my time disciplining children during class and my family's time for trying to contact their parents at night. My goodness, this teacher is trying to do her job and reach the unreachable parent in order to get the child help. Kindergartens pin notes on children on a regular basis so that the teacher knows the parent will get it. How in any way is this humiliating? We need to stop teaching our children to blame someone else for what they did instead of paying the consequences of acting up in class.

This conversation has been closed to further comments

212 Comments

View replies by

Sally - posted on 10/02/2012

963

14

9

When I was a kid, we had notes pinned to us all the time. Our teachers knew that trusting us to remember to had it over was a silly idea. She should have used a safety pin because the staple probably ruined his shirt and I'd be mad about that. If the mom doesn't want notes, I guess the teacher will have to call her next time.

I know we don't like our children's dainty little psyches damaged, but there's a reason being embarrassed doesn't feel good. If you don't want to feel that way again, you behave next time.

Jareen - posted on 10/01/2012

24

22

1

There was nothing wrong with the Teacher pinning the note on the childs shrit. The Mom's reaction is why kids don't have any respect for Teachers today, and when these kids fail in class parents that are not dicipline their children wants to blame the Teachers. As a parent myself when my youngest son was small he became very disrespectful to his Teacher I was informed about the matter so I told his Teacher the next time that he acts up in school don't say nothing to him. I told his teacher called the front office with the code that I had given him to the secretary to contact me and so I could sneak up on him. Well low and behold I didn't I took my belt and whopped his rude behind in the front of the class and he never did what he did again his teacher had no more problem out of him ever again.

Ashley - posted on 09/30/2012

316

12

47

I would provably be mad too. That is wht they made phones and email. All my kids teachers know to call me,if there is a problem. If she thought you were not getting the notes, then she shoukd have called to confirm and figure somethibg out about the behavior and discipline.

LadyJane - posted on 03/21/2011

162

7

1

Good grief. All this over a note. Sorry, but even my 6yr old comes home with notes attached to his coat. Usually its' for something important, he got punched on the bus, he needs a permission slip signed, he forgot to turn in homework, etc. I have absolutely not issues with it, not even if the note was stapled to him. For this mother to take this to the media tells me she has a problem with communication between herself and the teacher. If mom did get those notes as she claims then why did she NOT contact the school/teacher to discuss those. For the teacher to do that, it has to be because mom didn't bother to act upon those notes. Prolly just took them from her son, read them and tossed em. I've always sent a return note back to the teacher the same way she gave them to me. Pinned on my sons coat, shirt, whereever. It has nothing to do in believing the teacher or not. I had a teacher fired when I was in 5th grade because she decided that some nationalities shouldn't be in her class... She was a jewish teacher and always picked on those who she knew for a fact were German. She was fired when overwhelming proof confirmed that exact fact. It took a year after I left that school and it happening to another student. But that still doesn't make me concerned about a note taped, stapled, or pinned to my child's shirt, coat, etc.



If this was done in a malicious way, I'm sure it would have been a lot worse then a note stapled to a shirt.

The teacher I had would always send me to the principal's office anytime this "bully" would kick me and this 'bully' would then be allowed to continue recess with no punishment. Even sitting with a bloodly knee, this teacher would blame me for him kicking me.

Desiree - posted on 03/21/2011

910

17

13

And mom agreed that she received the previous notes. So in that fact it is safe to assume she did nothing either. And I don't agree that teachers do things for malicious reasons just because... Oh yes what was it about making assumptions...They are the mother of all stuff ups. We don't know the whole story for all we actually know is that the malicious doing was on the side of the mother. Maybe mommy was the one with something against the teacher. Personality crashes happen all the time. Whether they happen in South Africa, Uk, USA or Down under. There are so many ways to look at this.

"Given that this mother went to the media", actually means absolutely diddly squat. We know that a good many people in the world are media hungry so actually it says nothing about her character except I am glad I don't know her, she is the type of mom I steer very clear of. "Media Parenting" is all show off especially when you are in the wrong about something. The best form of deffence is to attack.

Bonnie - posted on 03/21/2011

81

23

3

Sarah, I never said it was. I said that in my country, if a teacher were to do the same thing, you can safely assume it was maliciously intended. What I said about this teacher is that she chose to staple the note to the shirt & that, psychology speaking, it doesn't say anything good about her ability to deal with difficult issues.

Bonnie - posted on 03/21/2011

81

23

3

Desiree, I live in a far from "ideal situation". I was simply pointing out that, in Australia at least, it would be near impossible for a teacher to use an inability to contact parents as an excuse for such behaviour. However if a teacher did something like that here you can guarantee, with 90% certainty, that it was done with malicious intent.
Given this mother has gone to the media it is also safe to assume she was contactable by the school. It is also more logical to question the school's actions- why, if they honestly had communication issues with the mother, did the teacher/school not involve a councillor? Why did they not express any possible concerns to welfare agencies? There are any number of actions this teacher could have taken that would have been more reasonable. But she CHOSE to staple the note to the boy's shirt.

[deleted account]

Right i see..the mother has issues and seems to not care.The teacher is so stressed and leads her to do this.I feel for the teacher, don't get me wrong.Its a tough job and one i wouldn't want.Still i feel both were wrong.The mother has a lot to answer for, i think the public like us can forgive and feel for the teacher.It doesn't say many of us agree with it but we understand, why she went and did that.She wanted her attention, well she got it.lol.

Desiree - posted on 03/20/2011

910

17

13

Ashley except for the fact that the mom admits that she received the previous notes and reports. Now the question is what did she do about it?

[deleted account]

Lol thats what i get for not reading the other posts about why the school did not phone lol.

Whether or not the kid cared at all over the note.

The teacher did this out of anger and frustration.It was wrong.

It is different to wearing a badge pinned on your top.My daughter at age 5 had to wear a name badge for the first week of her new school.All the children were asked to put them on or helped put them on as the pin is sharp.



Teachers were i live would never pin notes to our children.I find it crazy but again if its normal in some places, okay i get it.Our children have always gave notes to us.So the child was in the wrong to have not given the notes to mom.As a teacher she went about it in the wrong manner as the mother did to.Just to point that out.

Kate CP - posted on 03/19/2011

8,942

36

758

If the twat of a mother was actually clued in to her child's behavior and paid attention and attempted to actually DO something about it, then the teacher wouldn't have had to result to such a stupid move. Nobody did the right thing here but I don't think Mommy needed to get her knickers in a twist over a note on her son's shirt.

Kelley - posted on 03/19/2011

330

30

27

Having worked with young children and also along side teachers. I would say if sincerely she wanted to get the mothers attention , Ok she made her point, but too often this is something that has come up to a level f placing the child in an awkward even embarrassing position. Usually the techer at that point is out of line and now has used the child and his/her a feelings against the parent.
I also had a group of 14 boys one year that a couple of them would have gottenthe Biggest kick out of it. But the realationship with the child and parents was on very good communication. Itdoesn't sound like that's the case here.
As a former teacher, I would probably view it an in appropriate and even sarcastic way of the teacher leting me know she's 'put out' a personal level with me.

Jodi - posted on 03/19/2011

3,562

36

3907

I must admit, I don't see the difference between a stapled note and a pinned note......I also don't see the need to go to the media over this whole thing. It's beyond ridiculous. I can't see why this couldn't have been worked out calmly with the school in some way, regardless of who is in the right and who is not (because we don't REALLY know what happened). I'm sorry, but the mother has been totally wrong in taking this to the media, regardless of the circumstances. I can think of a million better ways to handle it as a parent.

Stifler's - posted on 03/19/2011

15,141

154

604

Bahaha,. I would just have laughed at this if it was my kid. Humiliation... oh the drama. Unless the staple ripped a hole in my kid's shirt... then I would have sent old mate a receipt for a new shirt. if you can't work together with your child's teacher your kid is just going to grow up like a few kids I know... "I'm in the right,... everyone else is wrong... I KNOW MY RIGHTS". Please. No one likes people like that.

Desiree - posted on 03/19/2011

910

17

13

Bonnie so you live in the ideal situation unfortunately not everyone is like that. Not everything is cut and dried into perfect moulds we want them to fit into.



Now I have just had a thought. What are the chances this is purely a way for mom to get some type of attention. We never heard the teachers side of the story and only the mothers. To top things off with the story is very sketchy at best. Assumption can lead the mind in many directions.... Aren't people wonderful?

Lesa - posted on 03/19/2011

150

6

6

Technology is not the problem, some people can be unreachable on purpose. If you did not have a phone number or cell phone number to give, then the school cannot prohibit your child from going to school. Not to mention some phone numbers get disconnected and the school is the last place that some parents tell. Again, all heresay. We have no idea if the parent was called or not. All I know that as a teacher, it sounds like a last resort at trying to contact a parent. But, if you picture it otherwise then there is nothing I can do to persuade you of that. You see it one way and I see it differently. Have I seen misuse of a teacher's authority? Yes. In this day and age I see more disrespect of teachers from students and parents. You ask why the parent wasn't called and my question is why the parent didn't call the school?? If a teacher did something to my son that upset me, my first step would be to contact the school and find out both sides and make a meeting with the teacher. What kind a parent contacts the media??

Bonnie - posted on 03/19/2011

81

23

3

Desiree, the mother may not have though. While I wouldn't go so far as taking it to the media, I do know my reaction would be very different depending on which was used. But then, that's also based on the school system here in Australia & the knowledge that the teachers here will try everything possible to contact the parents if needed- I have to list 2 phone numbers for myself (minimum) & at least one number per emergency contact, of which there must be at least 2, on my son's school enrolment forms for next year. Not to mention everyone's addresses & emails! I guess that's the thing about living somewhere that there is so much technology though, everyone is always contactable here!

Desiree - posted on 03/19/2011

910

17

13

Maybe she ran out of pins. Not everyone has pins sitting in their desk. Staples, pins, safety pins that irrelevant and very silly thing to pick on. The mother would have had a fit either way so the teacher was still on the short end of the stick,.

Isobel - posted on 03/19/2011

9,849

0

286

You are ASSUMING malice, and I am ASSUMING there was none...we're both in the same boat ;)

Bonnie - posted on 03/19/2011

81

23

3

Erica, thank you. That was pretty much the point I was trying to get across!
Laura, I don't really see an issue with pinning a note to a child's shirt, particularly if they are young/forgetful. Although where I live most children are taught that it's their responsibility to make sure notes are given to parents, so even that would be questioned here.

My issue with this is that the teacher stapled the note to the boys shirt. While it may not seem much of a difference, resorting to the use of a stapler says a lot about this teacher's state of mind, & none of it good.

Erica - posted on 03/19/2011

48

7

0

Honestly- I would think, what the heck...did she lose her safety pins?? and want to know why she stapled the note to the shirt...which in turn we would get the story, which I guess the article is not wanting to provide in full detail.

Carolyn - posted on 03/19/2011

898

19

140

oh Bonnie, i said i WOULD judge each situation on its own. as in like, stuff to come, different situations, etc. since you felt you could assume my future responses to things that havent occured or have been discussed yet.

and Im pretty sure i covered the stapling the note thing 3 times by now atleast.

you know what this is pointless, im tired of repeating myself and arguing semantics.

you dont want to read what was already written. im not going to bother.

Isobel - posted on 03/19/2011

9,849

0

286

I would have NO reaction...because growing up it happened to me kindly and nicely every time a note HAD to get home to my mother.

Bonnie - posted on 03/19/2011

81

23

3

Carolyn, you are not judging "each situation on it's own", you are making assumptions based on an article.
At the end of the day you have based your opinion NOT on the fact but on the assumptions you have made due to a news article. I ask you ALL again: What would your opinion be, of the teacher's actions, if the only information you had read was that she STAPLED a note to a boy's shirt?

Bonnie - posted on 03/19/2011

81

23

3

No Laura, we don't know that at all. Had there not been a picture of the note stapled to the boy's shirt then we wouldn't know that 100% either.
I have repeatedly stated that, in my opinion, the teacher was beyond out of line. I would never, under any circumstances, find what she did appropriate or acceptable. I am basing that opinion SOLELY on the fact that she stapled a note to the boy's shirt. Nothing more, nothing less. That is not projecting. Nor is my saying that I would expect most other's in here to react the same in my situation. That is based on psychology. Had I not had that experience I would have referred to a friend who was also singled out by a teacher at school (not my school), despite rarely doing anything wrong, let alone anything that warranted her teacher's behaviour. &, as I pointed out in an earlier post, I had more than enough experience with truly disruptive students during my schooling & NOT ONCE did a teacher react in an unprofessional manner as the teacher in this article did.

Carolyn - posted on 03/19/2011

898

19

140

"Oh FFS people. You CANNOT pass judgement based on an assumption which is all anyone is basing their arguments on thus far. By all your responses my grade 4 teacher (I was 9-10yrs old) was totally justified in harassing me for a full year, purely because she was the teacher & therefore more trustworthy than the parent, despite the fact that I was never anywhere near the incidents she tried to pin on me"

this paragraph as well as numerous other posts where you continue to link individuals personal opinions regarding the article, leads me to beleive that you feel the 2 incidents are some how the same. I personally, see a big difference between a note being staples, and a teacher harassing a student, blaming them for incidents that occured that were impossible for the child to be imvolved and all the other problems you listed having with this teacher.

As far as the rest of your above post and the previous, i supposed i need to not personalize it,and put the "you" and "your" in the general because after rereading my own posts and then reading yours, i fail to see where i have belittlde the mother ( other than the one time calling her ignorant for furthering her childs humiliating via media outlets) or said anything about the son.

meh , like i said, you can assume that many of us will react in a certain way. But i for one, judge each situation on its own. If my pointing out that you are projecting your own history into this makes you believe I would ignore my child and blindly follow what a teacher states, well, i dont know what to say. oh wait i know, Can I get the lotto numbers for next ? since you know were fortune telling and all ! ( sorry , had to be cheecky there, really couldnt help it)

Isobel - posted on 03/19/2011

9,849

0

286

Bonnie,

Here is what I have learned being the parent of a girl...I find myself CONSTANTLY putting my old hurt onto her. Every time anybody says anything remotely unkind I am brought back to my days of torture at the hands of evil little girls. It truly is my automatic instinct to see a bully in every young girl I meet. (and no, I'm not joking or being a sarcastic jerk...I SERIOUSLY assume every young girl is an asshat whose going to break my daughter's heart).

I think that you are projecting that same kind of assuming onto this article. The fact that she stapled a note to the kid's shirt is NOT the only thing we know...we also know that she allowed him to cover it up. A teacher that WAS trying to humiliate (or use humiliation as a discipline tool) would NOT have allowed him to cover it up. When I tell you it happened to me every day it's not to tell you that it's good to humiliate kids cause they did it to me they should do it to everybody...it's to tell you that my teachers did it kindly, and nicely, there was NO humiliation involved because it WAS just a way to reach my parents because I lost EVERYTHING.

You are assuming just as much as we are...just in different directions.

Desiree - posted on 03/19/2011

910

17

13

It would be interesting to hear which part of the world you are from. Coming from South Africa myself I hear both the good and the bad from all countries. If you think that teachers are different in one side of the world to another the answer is no. They have to contend everyday with some of the most undisiplined and unrully children you can find. No School or country anywhere in this world has perfect teachers. They are only human after all. Each has their own way of dealing with children. Some teachers are teacher because they truely believe thats their calling in life and then there are those who only see it as a job. I don't want any teacher teaching my children from what they read out of books. They need to be able to adjust and think. I switch off the minute someone preaches out of what some idiot says about bringing up children. Well in all honesty there no such thing as a manual and if you spend your life thinking that everything you read is gospel then you are going to miss out. If you think the teacher was wrong so be it but there is always 3 sides to every story the left the right and the trueth. In this case the teacher maybe could have handled it a little different, but she didn't and the mother has made herself to look like a money grabbing fool and has not taught her child anything at all. Who is the bigger looser in the story. I know it wasn't the teacher, nor was it the mother. But the child. Now that's Humiliating.

Bonnie - posted on 03/19/2011

81

23

3

Carolyn, I never said what happened to me correlates in any way to what happened to this boy. I did, however, point out that your reaction would most likely be the same.

In this instance you have one fact: the teacher stapled a note to a boy's shirt.

In my situation there was one fact: my teacher frequently called my mother into the school.

Due to the ONLY facts in either situation being reasonably similar it fits to assume that your response, or most people's in here, would be the same in both situations. Given human nature & our propensity to react the same way under similar circumstances, along with what little interaction this forum provides, it is not a huge leap, nor is it unlikely, that this would be the case. In fact given the responses, particularly those in relation to what I have said, the chances of your reaction being the same are greatly increased.
It is, however, illogical to attack a parent & verbally abuse her child based on a news story. To the opposite of your arguments we could also say the mother was fed up with trying to get the school to see reason & apologise for what the teacher did, & so she took it to the media. Either argument is plausible but both are equally redundant given the lack of factual information available.

My point, from the beginning, has been that we have only one fact. I have not said that anyone's opinion is invalid, just that it would be better to base such opinions on the fact at hand. I could not imagine anyone in here sitting back & taking any of the responses in here lightly were they to find themselves being judged in such a manner.
You will have to forgive me for being taught not to judge others without cause or proof for such judgement.

Carolyn - posted on 03/19/2011

898

19

140

Bonnie, I would not go to the media over a teacher stapling a not to my child's shirt. If my son came home with a note stapled to his shirt ,it would indicate to me that the teacher is desperately trying to get my attention. im thought my opinion on the whole shirt stapling thing came across pretty well in my posts? apparently i am mistaken....... edit : please see my post on page 1. I thought that addressed the note stapling pretty well.



You can assume all you like that I would take the word of the teacher over anything. But then again you would be jumpin to conclusions based on no evidence, but purely on my opinion on one specific and vague article. hmmm sounds familiar



Unfortunately all we have to go on are if's. You have your perspecitve and i have mine.



Your situation still doesnt correlate in the least ( based on what we know) to a note being stapled to a childs shirt.



added : if the mother went to the media over a note being stapled, you can bet your ass she would be persuing any hint of harrassment, or singling out of her child by the school or his teacher as you describe in your own circumstances.



anyways

Lesa - posted on 03/19/2011

150

6

6

H.J.H I agree that there are other forms of discipline and certainly would not have stapled a note to a student's shirt myself, but what I don't agree with is how the parent reacted to it. I am more concerned of the message the mother has given her child, not what the teacher has done.

H.J - posted on 03/19/2011

279

32

14

I am so greatful that my child is not going to school in America. Here this situation would be delt with in a completely different manner as teachers here are not seen as infaliable. The school to home communication is much better than what I have seen happen here. I too have worked with my fair share of 7yr olds (in Out of School Hours Care) in the last 10years I have spent working in the Early Childhood sector.

The teacher obviously lost control of the situation if she had to resort to stapling a note to the child's clothing. Yes children lost control but it is the teachers job to be bigger stronger wiser and kind. If the teacher is unable to cope with a childs behaviour then that is where the principle/headmaster or school councellor comes in.

There are better ways to respond to a child talking in class than a note home on the clothes which is simply removing the child from the classroom, this could be as simple sending the child out of the into the corridor for the few minutes it takes until the teacher can leave the class with some work to talk the child out of the earshot of the other children or to the head masters office to stop the cycle of classroom disruption. As obviously the function of this behaviour is for attention

Then if the situation continues out of hand an internal suspension is a much worse consequence than sending the child home on suspension because they do not get to sit at home on the couch for the duration of the punishment they sit in what is called a "focus room" where there is a teacher or teachers aide and they are unable to disrupt the classroom. They are still learning and the class is free of disruption. (therefore freeing up the teacher to teach the other children). The child is then not given any chance for humiliation as the consequences are enacted once the child is away from their peers.

There are many different avenues the teacher could have tried but chose not to. At the end of the day the consequences for the child's actions were not fitting to the actions themself. If this is the acceptable consequence for talking in class I do not even want to know what is an acceptable consequence in this school district for fighting.

Bonnie - posted on 03/19/2011

81

23

3

Carolyn, I haven't seen you respond to the ONLY fact in that article once. You have made an assumption that, because it stated "again" in the article, this child must constantly be misbehaving. That "again" could refer to any number of prior incidences, be it once or a hundred. It could also be completely false.
I have repeatedly given examples of what could actually have happened & what could be the cause of the behaviour that you are all assuming is the case because I cannot stand people who are so ready to jump to conclusions based on so little evidence. & by jumping up & down about how the mother is at fault, the child's a brat, etc, etc, you are all saying that the teacher must be right over the parent. Given the lack of anything substantial in the article you are all showing that you would side with the teacher in any situation, purely because the teacher holds a position of authority.
You'll have to forgive me for assuming people are capable of looking objectively at the situation as opposed to jumping to conclusions based on the wording of a media article. Last time I checked the media was not a particularly reliable source of accurate or truthful information.
And you have continued to avoid the ONLY fact: the teacher stapled a note to a student's shirt. There is nothing that could ever warrant that behaviour, least of all from a teacher.

Lesa - posted on 03/18/2011

150

6

6

I would consider your profession very similar to mine. Dealing with children and parents. None of it is easy.

H.J - posted on 03/18/2011

279

32

14

Who knows if the parent had responded to the school this was not stated in the article. The parent must have been frustrated by the school and districts unresponsiveness to have taken this to the media. The child has not been named in the article once nor was he shown in the video clip so how is this humiliating the child? The only person shown is his mother and how many people may look like her? I doubt Innocent is her real last name it may be an alias the media outlet gave her to keep the child's anonymity.

This article states that the school district stated the teacher put a sweatshirt over the note, could this be the school district trying to cover their backsides?

"No other profession puts up with this BS. We try to please too many people, (students, parents, administration, district, province and country)" Try working in Childcare for less than 30.000 a year with the same expectations but add to it toilet training, nappies, wiping snotty noses and teaching children to crawl, walk and talk. Whilst being bitten, thrown up on and hit and punched. I would not trade my job for the world because I love educating pre-school children. I'm just saying that there are other professions that have to deal with the same

Lesa - posted on 03/18/2011

150

6

6

I don't know any teacher that makes 90K. I make 50K here in Canada with a max of 65K. I totally agree that some teachers are in the wrong profession and are in for the great pension plan. With that being said, I believe that most people have an opinion on how our jobs should be done and no one really understands unless they walk a mile in our shoes. Some days, I don't get home until after six and my own children spend almost 12 hours at a babysitter so that I may educate our future. I look at each one of my students as an individual and work long hours to ensure that each child reaches their potential while my own kids get the leftovers of the energy that I have left. I cry many hours for those children that I cannot reach and I cry each night for the attention lost on my own sweet baby's. I don't look for thanks or a pat on the back as it is my job but a little understanding and respect goes a long way. We are too quick to point the finger at the teacher and once again the child is left blameless and teaches him to disrespect his teacher more. No other profession puts up with this BS. We try to please too many people, (students, parents, administration, district, province and country), sometimes it feels as if we are just chasing our tails as we can't please all the people even some of the time.

[deleted account]

So we don't know the whole situation. And this is a very touchy subject to many of us.



I don't know about you, but my child is THE cat's meow and God's gift to any teacher lucky enough to spend time with him... to ME. On the other hand, to other people, and when I'm not there to control his every whim like a knowing mom, he can be a brat. He can destroy and distract and be tough to deal with if a teacher has the wrong personality. Some teachers have done it too long or are with the wrong age for their personality. Also I do firmly beleive in certain districts and schools that teachers have too much power to decide what is the child's fault or due to their own teaching ineptness. Teachers who "lose it" and yell for one need to be out of a job. Teachers who punish and jump to conclusions or target a certain child for everything also need to be watched, warned and turned out too.



On the other hand, we as parents HAVE to be aware of our child's ability or inability to conform. We need to be there for teacher concerns regularly. Let her/him know you'll work with the problems they are having so your child gets into a flow for institutional education. If you are not willing, or there is a gap somewhere between these two REQUIREMENTS for your child's success things like this stupid note stapling can happen to you!



I have seen countless notes taped and stapled to children for everything! It used to be a norm. And now I still feel, "so what" about it. It could have been a note about lunch money or a permission slip for rollerskating for all I care. I see them as friendly reminders to parents who are not "on the ball". I have never seen this on my child because my teacher can email me and get responses pretty quickly.



I do believe teachers who single out a bad guy, target a child or resort to humiliation, belittling and publicly airing their disgust with a student is a crummy, lazy tactic. You don't deserve 90K for the right to do this, and for those of us who felt this wrath in our school days (I was one for instance too), I understand the sensetivity you have for this child. But the MOM is at fault and should be ashamed for the situation getting this bad!! Where was she before!?



So in the end, I have the utmost respect for, and am happy to approve of high paid excellent teachers with clean exciting classrooms and lesson plans and versitility with all different personalities. But the few shrews, and there are so many crappy teachers dragging the good ones down, I want THEM fired with permanent records and nasty notes stapled to THEIR jumpers, etc...

Desiree - posted on 03/18/2011

910

17

13

You may not like the word "Brat" but I don't have a problem with the word at all. Its a reflection on the parent if a child is referred to as a brat. Yes my kids have been called that and make no mistake I did something about it and corrected my child's behaviour. At the end of the day whether the Teacher was out of line or not is the choice of the individual person and I believe the mothers actions have spoken volums and was worse for the child in the end, because this child has learnt nothing except that its ok to run away from problems, blame it on others and never accept responsibility. I have yet to understand how people think thats ok. This child has been taught nothing of value even if he is only 7. And yes they understand us only too well.

Carolyn - posted on 03/18/2011

898

19

140

Bonnie, personally, i see a huge difference between a note being pinned to a t shirt, and a teacher maliciously and vindictively harassing a child. Im really not sure how you are making the connection that those who beleive the child manipulated the situation for attention ro to shift attention to the teacher of instead his own behaviour, or that the teacher wasnt out of line in her actions equates to beleiving your teachers actions were justified or praising them.

I think maybe you are projecting on this one. your story and this one, are completely unrelated and totally different situations. Maybe you fail to see that.

Lesa - posted on 03/18/2011

150

6

6

So losing control is pinning a note on a shirt. I have taught 7 year olds and they are very capable of manipulating a whole class and their parents. It is great quoting Erikson but not everything he says can pertain to every child. My seven year old son is much "younger" in mind than my friends seven year old daughter. These are generalisations. As a grade 2 teacher, I do not see a teacher losing control here, I see a child who is losing control and trying everything he can to get attention. I had a child like this once and his mother told me to lock him in the closet (which of course I didn't do) but the minute I called and asked for him to stay after school his mother vehemently denied it. Without support from home, a troubled child acts much much worse than a child whose parents work with the teacher. Even if the teacher had it out for the child, the avenue the mother took did not match the punishment. If she were upset and truly worried about her child's humiliation, she would not have put him on national tv. That is out of control.

H.J - posted on 03/18/2011

279

32

14

This is a child being a child not as some of you call it brat! Unless you understand child development you should stop referring to him as such. (Time to put on my pre-school teacher hat) How would you feel if somebody you don't know called your child a brat because they were acting differently while you are out? Possibly you would put them in their place.You do not know this child or his family so you cannot pass judgment.

At the end of the day this is a 7yr old child who is acting like a typical 7yr old. Erik Erikson defines this stage of Development as the Industry vs. Inferiority phase (7 to 12 years): where "children are becoming more aware of themselves as individuals. They work hard at "being responsible, being good and doing it right."

Allen and Marotz (2003) say that "at this stage, children might express their independence by being disobedient, using back talk and being rebellious."

Erikson also states "If children are ridiculed or punished or if they find they are incapable of meeting their teachers' and parents' expectations, they develop feelings of inferiority about their capabilities."

For goodness sake the child was only talking in class which Adam Winsler, an associate professor of psychology at George Mason University showed that preschoolers perform better while doing their tasks when they talk to themselves out loud (either spontaneously or when told to do so by an adult) than when they are silent.

“Young children often talk to themselves as they go about their daily activities, and parents and teachers shouldn’t think of this as weird or bad,” said Winsler.

“On the contrary, they should listen to the private speech of kids. It’s a fantastic window into the minds of children,” he added. During the study 78 per cent of the children performed either the same or better on the performance task when speaking to themselves than when they were silent.

This teacher's punishment is not developmentally appropriate for a child of this age and a good teacher of 7yr olds would know that! This child may not have been acting out at all but doing what comes naturally and the teacher losing control.

This is the teacher not the teacher wanting to help the child by seeking the parents engagement in his learning, this is the teacher getting back at the parent for non response as opposed to the teacher actually wanting to help the child reach their potential which is what she is paid by the child's parent to do!

Desiree - posted on 03/18/2011

910

17

13

Bonnie yes we can thats why its called a debate. You had a rough time and I am sorry for that, but you can't base all your bad experiances and assume that this is what is happening to this child or to many other children sometime the victim is actually the teacher and not the child or parent. All that has happened is something has been blown all out of proportion and someone been fired for nothing.
This is something that happens to children in South Africa all the time because when you have a class of 35+ children you find ways of getting to parents you a never see, A can never contact (cellphones is something that every single person in Za owns so no excuse there). don't you find it ironic that the child played his mother very well in deed and that their surname in Innocent. that child successfully managed to get the mothers attention from himself (which goes to show he knew what he had done) to that of his teacher, so now the little brat now gets everybody feels sorry for him and hates the teacher. He will cetainly make a vey good politician when he grows up know just how to get some one else to take his punishment for him. He wasn't humilated (he may have felt a little embarresd)at all he played all the grow ups for the sucker they are. he shows no shame at all for what he did. He can thank heavens he is not my son, I would have delt with him first and then asked questions especially if it had not been the first time. What the hell did Mom do when she was first notified, She obviously didn't do much if he carried on did she, because the behaviour just carried on.

Bonnie - posted on 03/17/2011

81

23

3

Oh FFS people. You CANNOT pass judgement based on an assumption which is all anyone is basing their arguments on thus far. By all your responses my grade 4 teacher (I was 9-10yrs old) was totally justified in harassing me for a full year, purely because she was the teacher & therefore more trustworthy than the parent, despite the fact that I was never anywhere near the incidents she tried to pin on me. & NO, I'm not saying that's what happened in this case because NONE of us know what really happened past the teachers gross misuse of her position.
I would love to see any of you deal with a teacher if this happened to your child purely because the teacher had it out for them. You wouldn't be so damn quick to praise the teacher's actions then.

Karissa - posted on 03/17/2011

112

26

6

That's great. I should do that with my boyfriend when he forgets things :) As long as the teacher didn't staple it too the kid and just his shirt I don't she a problem with it. At my school teachers would tape notes to the kids if it was important that they see it right away.

I don't see why the teacher couldn't have called the parents. I got phone calls all the time.

[deleted account]

LadyJane make that across the world i would say something about his mummy but hey i won't 15 minutes thats all shes after 15 minutes

LadyJane - posted on 03/17/2011

162

7

1

His mother is doing just that anyway with this publicity she's garnering. Trust me, that is much worse than a teacher doing it at the school. Cause at least at school only those there saw it, but now everyone in the viewing range knows about it. Her son is now 'humiliated' across the nation.

LadyJane - posted on 03/17/2011

162

7

1

His mother is doing just that anyway with this publicity she's garnering. Trust me, that is much worse than a teacher doing it at the school. Cause at least at school only those there saw it, but now everyone in the viewing range knows about it. Her son is now 'humiliated' across the nation.

[deleted account]

Ashley - we've discussed the phone over and over again clearly the mother doesn't care bah her own 15 minutes.



lol so i guess sending your child to the naughty corner is "humiliating" too? with out discipline (not punishment very big line there) we end up with little brats. my son today had a note pinned to his shirt for kindy and had that note on him from our house to kindy (a good half hour walk) with loads of people seeing it i dont think it embarrassed him at all (if you can ever embarrass a 16 month old) infact he walked proudly up to his teacher and pointed at the note. I might add the note was in regards to medication his current illness and for her too keep an eye on a rash that may develop as we're still trying to work out a penicillin allergy. the only reason i had the note is i would of forgotten to mention something and pinning it on him was an easier way to ensure i wouldn't lose it



note to add: is a name badge humiliating too? its pinned to your shirt for all the world to see. i've had to wear one at work and my son wore one on his first day of kindy and i know my cousin wore one for the first week of grade one

Join Circle of Moms

Sign up for Circle of Moms and be a part of this community! Membership is just one click away.

Join Circle of Moms