Why do you think there are so many more criminals today then 20 yrs ago?

Brooke - posted on 01/15/2013 ( 37 moms have responded )

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Is it because back 35 yrs ago discipline was discipline and those kids who are now the grandparents of todays kids .. .

Is it because parents are to soft on their kids so when that child grows up now that child is a school/mall shooter? Because the parents failed to instill values and make a good foundation in their child? Or does that parent make an excuse on on why their child turned out a criminal?

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Denikka - posted on 01/16/2013

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From everything I've read, crime rates are actually down, like Sylvia said.

I can see why you may be asking the question though, as it does seem like there are more, and more violent crimes, especially the ones being committed by younger people (25 and under).

I think that there's a couple of reasons for that.
1) it's good news. It's dramatic. It makes headlines, gives ratings, sells papers, etc. So I think more violent crimes are being portrayed more frequently in the news now than there were 20 years ago.

2) As far as violent crimes being committed by younger people (and I don't have numbers to back me up, so whether there are more violent crimes, or more frequent violent crimes, I can't say), there has been at least one study done that says kids today are losing their ability to empathize. Which is a big deal when it comes to committing violent acts. Whether it's actual committed crimes (rape, murder, etc) or just violent acts (physical bullying, emotional bullying, fights, etc that are not prosecuted), I do see an increase. As I said, I don't have the numbers to back me up, but from what I've seen, it does seem to happen more frequently.

I think that it doesn't necessarily come down to a lack of discipline, but more of an increase of fear (the lack of empathy falls in here).
50 years ago, kids were pretty free to roam. They had pick up games of street hockey, walked to the park by themselves of with a group of friends, there was freedom.
Now, parents are terrified to let their kids (10, 11, 12 years old) walk across the street by themselves. We've been so bombarded with images and stories of all the horrible things that go on (kidnapping, rape, murder, torture) that parents are terrified to let their kids out of their sight.
I have literally seen 1 game of street hockey in the past 5 and 1/2 years. And for 5 of those years, I have been on multiple different, quiet streets where lots of kids live. I almost never see kids outside. I currently live 2 minutes (walking) from an elementary school (k-grd 7)/park (they're connected, with another elementary school on the other side of the park). I live in a cul-de-sac, Every house here has children (I can see them in the morning going off to school). I have only even seen 6 children playing outside (3 live upstairs from me and there are 3 girls across the road and down a few houses) There are easily 30+ kids living on this street. But I never see them except when they're being put in the car to go to school in the morning.

The point to this being that kids aren't outside anymore. They're inside, usually playing by themselves or with siblings. Quite frequently on a screen of some sort (computer, game console, handheld, cell phone, tablet, etc). Kids are being taught the fear that their parents have. This idea that everyone is out to get them/hurt them. So they wall themselves off. What relationships they do have are much more superficial because they have been taught that everyone is out to get them, so it's just a matter of time.
Not to mention that what bonds a child may form are frequently proved to be impermanent. Many parents either have to or choose to work and so the child goes to daycare. In and of itself, that may or may not contribute, but what I feel is much more important is the fact that these relationships can and do change with little or no warning. A child may find themselves with a different care giver, completely randomly, for a multitude of different reasons. Maybe the parents decided to move daycares, or the worker got fired or had to quit. For whatever reason, that person that the child relied on has been stripped out of their life, for no reason the child can see or truly understand. Let's face it, it's a rare parent who will hunt down an old day care worker or babysitter to have them continue to be a part of a child's life.
Go back in time and children were more frequently cared for by the same person for most of their lives. It wasn't that uncommon for people to use the same babysitter they had, or one that babysat a close family member or friends child, for their own children. That just doesn't happen anymore.

I believe this to be a large contributor to the bullying and violence that seems to be increasing in the youth,a contributor to many of the issues regarding teens and young adults specifically, and a contributor to current divorce rates.
It's all a product of fear. It didn't happen overnight, and it has been going on for years. So these are the results we're seeing and they only seem to be getting worse.
I'm hoping that the next generation of kids will have parents who can learn from the mistakes of their parents (like each generation does) and they'll be able to do a little bit better and start to turn things around again.

3)It seems to me like the sentences for crimes are being lessened. The maximum may not being reduced, but what people are actually being sentence to seems a lot less that it should be. Time served waiting for court, parole in 1/8 of the time of the total sentence. 30 years for murder, but out on parole for good behavior in 6 years. Doesn't seem like much of a deterrent to me.
Not to mention the repeat crimes out there. Lesser crimes frequently escalate into more serious ones. There are MANY people out there with criminal records that are 6 inches thick. Starting with petty robbery and ending with murder. There needs to be much more prevention in prisons and not nearly as much of a cushy lifestyle.
In my hometown there were actually homeless people who, come October or so, would commit a petty crime and get put in jail for 6 months or so, just so they would have a roof and good food all winter.

That all being said, there will always be crime. I don't think anything will change that. No matter how they were raised, who raised them, or what the consequences are. There will always be problems, people who feel entitled to whatever you have, people with addictions, etc. But I think there's a lot to be done to improve matters.

Sylvia - posted on 01/16/2013

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Um, no.

For one thing, your conclusions are silly. But the main problem is that your premise is totally wrong -- rates of violent crime are DOWN from 20 years ago across North America.

Coincidentally, I just read this extremely interesting article on one possible (I think quite likely) reason for that: http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2...

Sara - posted on 02/10/2013

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I don't think there is more criminals these days. Percentage wise we are most likely the same. Number-wise we have increased because population has increased. You need to realize that media is far more advanced now then it was 20 years ago. News flies across the world so much quicker and in several forms. Tv, radio, newspapers, social networking, google etc etc.

Jodi - posted on 02/08/2013

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Discipline is NOT considered child abuse. Hitting is considered child abuse. Hitting is not discipline. It is very frustrating that many people can't seem to tell the difference.

Sylvia - posted on 01/24/2013

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Kristi, I don't think I knew what a paedophile was when I was a kid, either. But I don't think that was because they weren't around -- in fact, I learned as a young adult that in a family we thought we knew quite well, and who lived quite close to us, the father had sexually abused ALL FOUR children over a period of many years. It's true now, and was undoubtedly true then as well, that the vast majority of such crimes are committed by someone the victim knows well, usually someone in a position of trust and/or authority. The difference is that now we are more open about sex crimes -- it's actually possible now for victims to speak out and be believed, for example -- and also, as Jodi and Shawnn said, that every time something terrible happens, particularly to a child, we hear about it 24/7 for weeks or months, thanks to the Internet and the 24-hour news cycle. When I was a kid, if a child was abducted and murdered in London, ON, we might never have heard about it in Calgary, AB, or it would be a brief item on the 11:00 news one night. These days, you would practically have to live in a communications blackout in order not to hear about it. And the more you hear about it, the more your brain is tricked into thinking that children are abducted and murdered ALL THE TIME, because it's become such a familiar narrative.

What is definitely true is that we are losing our sense of community -- not because crime is worse but because we are more afraid of, well, everything, and we've stopped trusting each other. Which really sucks.

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Kristi - posted on 02/27/2013

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But I don't think it is fair to say that their morals and "proper" standards of behaviour are down when in actual fact, it is OUR standard of what is proper that we are imposing on them, just as generations before have had different ideas on what is proper.

To a certain degree that may be true but I don't think there is anything wrong with teaching core values and behaviors and then expecting our children to act accordingly. Teaching children respect, honesty, how to behave in public and at school. Encouraging abstinance from sex, drugs and under age drinking by setting limits and consequences (education is a given for our conversation). Teaching them right from wrong. For example, when they are in pre-school, biting seems to be a common problem so we have to teach them biting is wrong. We teach our daughters how to dress appropiately. Things like that.

Of course, music and fashion changes, hairstyles. Things that set them apart as an individual or changing trends that we might not like or we might disagree with but are overall harmless, should be left up to them to decide.

***Totally off topic, but there has been a break through on national TV! A Luvs commercial just showed a real mom with a real baby, really breast feeding, no cover, no towel. She had a white blouse on and just had it unbuttoned. I had to do a double take because I thought no way anybody actually took a big bite out of that apple! We have seen the light***

Anyways...Based on other posts in other threads, I think we probably agree more than we disagree about this, I think we are just wording things differently. ; )

Jodi - posted on 02/26/2013

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"I was a teen over 20 years ago, too. It seems to me very much has changed. I agree that every generation will have it's differences but in my family, at least, our core values and behaviors have remained consistent. "

I actually didn't say things hadn't changed. I just don't like that we refer to today's teens as if their morals have gone to hell. I acknowledged that they are different. But I don't think it is fair to say that their morals and "proper" standards of behaviour are down when in actual fact, it is OUR standard of what is proper that we are imposing on them, just as generations before have had different ideas on what is proper.

"But, who knows, maybe this was the norm 20 years ago, too and I just wasn't here or there to see it."

That's the thing. I was the geeky A student. It is only now, as a teacher myself, handling the difficult percentage of kids (the 10% that take up 80% of your time in behaviour management) that I realise we DID have those kids back then, I just didn't notice at the time. But I certainly recognise it now. It is no different. Kids still take smokes to school, they always did. No-one calls lawyers here. Kids used to smoke dope behind the sheds at school when I was there. I just never got involved, but I knew it went on. They still do, and they still turn up to school drunk or stoned.

Sure, I've been told to fuck off once. The boy received an in-school suspension. I know kids who used to tell teachers to fuck off when I was at school. In fact, my own FATHER was a teacher for several years, and before I was even born he had a knife pulled on him by a teenager.

It hasn't changed that much. Their activities are different. The way kids learn now is different. The things they do in their spare time is different. (Heck, my parents would say the same about how I spent my spare time as a teen too - you know, those girly magazines, the books with sex in them, the music). But there are no more criminals than there ever were. Most teens I deal with are basically good kids, and there has always been the percentage that will end up doing time. Always.

Kristi - posted on 02/26/2013

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Jodi--

I was a teen over 20 years ago, too. It seems to me very much has changed. I agree that every generation will have it's differences but in my family, at least, our core values and behaviors have remained consistent.

The things that are so different here are that so many kids seem entitled and disrespectful. Kids don't play outside, they don't or aren't allowed to create and use their imaginations. Teen pregnancy is common place. Maybe it has to do with economic status. In Omaha, Nebraska pop. approx 500,000, most of the people I knew for the majority of the time I lived there were low income and had next to no class. I know the two do not have to go hand in hand. The kids were dirty, their grammar was horrible, they completely ignored/disrespected authority figures, had poor grades but still somehow managed to have Xbox 360's, $200 sneakers, $100 skateboards, etc. The race card got played in the schools all the time. They'd rob an old lady before they'd help her cross the street.

So far, out here on Bainbridge Island in Washington State pop approx 24,000, most of Grace's friends are really good kids. Most of their parents make more in a week than I will in a year so I don't fit into well but that's not the issue. But many of the older teens get into drugs in HS, not pot, the hard stuff like heroin. Dealers from Seattle come over here because they can charge 3x what they would over there. Teachers, parents, other kids all turn a blind's eye because nobody wants to piss off the wrong rich person. Police have been trying to get more involved in the schools with different programs and they've been blocked every step of the way.

That is just not the kind of world I grew up in. Shoot, if you got caught with smokes on school grounds, they took them, called your parents and put you in in-school suspension. That was that. Everybody knew it. Did people still bring them to school, of course but there wasn't a bunch of bullshit like there is now when a kid gets busted for something. What? How did that dope get in my backpack? I don't do drugs, he says, high as a kite. You planted that on me! I want my lawyer. You're just picking on me because I'm black. That just did not happen in my day. Most of the kids I knew, their parents shared my parents philosphy...you do the crime, you do the time. The "crime" could have been as little as getting in trouble for kissing in the hall or as serious as drunk driving. We all knew if we ever got arrested, we were safer at the jail, figuritively speaking.

I didn't mean to make it sound like there are no good kids left in the world. In my experience, over the last 2 decades, I have seen and heard things that would have gotten a kid from my generation knocked on his ass in one form or another. The main problem here is that the above mentioned behaviors have been taught and/or reenforced by lack of consequences and fear of retribution for anyone who does try to intervene or put expectations into place. But, who knows, maybe this was the norm 20 years ago, too and I just wasn't here or there to see it.

Jodi - posted on 02/26/2013

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"The statistics might show crime rates are down but so are many of our youth's morals and proper standard of behavior."

See, this is where I take issue. People are so hell bent on denigrading the morals and values of our youth. Is it really that their moral and values are lesser than ours? Or is it just that they are different and you don't necessarily agree with them? After all, our morals and values are different than those of our parents before us. And I guarantee, our parents' morals and values were different from those of their parents. Each of those generations probably said the same thing, that kids these days have no morals or values, and it really isn't "proper" behaviour. By whose definition of proper behaviour?

I completely disagree that there are more criminals amongst our youth now than there ever were. As a person who WAS a teenager over 20 years ago, it is absolutely no different than it is today. None. Sure, the teens have different ideas, and different ways of doing things, but their criminal activity is not any higher than it used to be.

Maybe the problem is where you live if you view teens as such failures.

Kristi - posted on 02/26/2013

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Sally--

While I agree with most of your statement, the end is a problem for me. The majority of my generation, at least from my area, did not grow up to be trouble makers. Of course, as with every generation, you have a few wise guys (not mafia lol) but most of them get their act together.

I have to agree with Angela about "fearing" parents and law enforcement. I think it's more a fear of knowing these guys don't mess around so I better mind my p's and q's. Everybody (the kids) was "afraid" of my dad but everyday after school and every weekend our house was full of kids. My dad coached softball and he got along with all of our friends and boyfriends.

But, one time this kid went tearing through our driveway about 40mph and pulled up at my neighbor's...my dad thundered over there and told the kid to roll his window down, the kid was scared shitless. He wouldn't roll his window down but a crack and he didn't come back to our neighborhood for a long time.

I just don't think kids have that healthy fear, if you will, of authority figures anymore. The statistics might show crime rates are down but so are many of our youth's morals and proper standard of behavior.

Angela - posted on 02/26/2013

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@ Jodi . my earlier comments were only musings - I fully appreciate that there is possibly less crime (proportionally at any rate - there are more people in the world now though). We also have to consider that years ago, people didn't report crime the way it occurs now.

Certain crimes had a stigma attached for the victim as much as for the perpetrator - so often those crimes went unreported (e.g. sex crimes, domestic violence). Other crimes (petty theft, shoplifting etc ....) were viewed as very serious and children could be taken away from their families for YEARS to live in remand homes or approved schools.

Nowadays children and teenagers aren't made so accountable for their misdemeanours. The Borstal system has been abolished. Young people in "juvenile jails" apparently get quite a lot of treats that non-offending kids on the outside don't receive. It's perceived as a soft option! If the crime rate has truly "gone down" then it's possibly because a lot of behaviour isn't regarded as crime.

As for my earlier comments about being frightened of the local Policeman - this was a good thing and DIDN'T have children living in terror. A friend who is a little older than me described how, in the village where he lived, the local Policeman would mete out physical punishment to kids that did wrong. A swift smack around the ear when caught thieving chocolate from the corner shop or stealing apples from someone's orchard and then being marched home to parents did the trick! And, years later when that particular Policeman retired, all those kids and teenagers who were now grown-up and pretty much older & wiser - THANKED that Policeman. They shook his hand and bought him a drink. That Police officer's intervention had possibly saved them from a custodial sentence in a Remand Home or similar. Basically they were spared being uprooted from their families and sent to a place where they'd be rubbing shoulders with more determined criminals ......

Any child getting into any kind of trouble out of school hours would still be publicly disgraced at school - I remember it! Even 2 children fighting with one another would have their names mentioned in morning assembly! Strangely I can't remember any mention of kids who got into trouble INSIDE the school at assembly, but anything that was supposed to be outside the school's jurisdiction (being out of school hours and out of school premises) and our Head Teacher ensured EVERY child and staff member knew about it! I even remember a kid whose library books hadn't been returned by the agreed date and we all heard about it. I guess there was a cautionary tale in everything for all the "innocent" children!

At the age of 7, our teacher did a Church Attendance register every Monday morning. Each child was asked if they went to Church on the Sunday, which service they'd attended and which Church they'd gone to. Every week 2 or 3 kids would say "I didn't go Miss. My parents overslept ...." Those kids who didn't go to Church were told off and the teacher kept records of it all in a notebook!

Whilst I'm against physical punishment of children 100%, I honestly don't believe the above treatment at school did any of us any harm. I fully understand that nowadays there would be an outcry - and rightly so - but times have changed!

Sally - posted on 02/26/2013

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Our culture over the last few decades has worked very hard to teach us what we want is more important than what anyone else needs and that we should not be accountable for our actions. Our government has also worked very hard to take away our right to protect ourselves from the criinals.
However. statistically, in many places there is actually less crime per capita than there was 35 years ago. We just hear about it more. Back then crimes were rarely reported outside a local area and only a couple times per day for a few days. Now every horrific crime is on the TV 24/7 for weeks. It creates a perception that things are much worse than they actually are.
Also, what we consider "old fashioned" discipline is actually only 50-100 years old and is almost unheard of outside the industrialized western world. The more we learn about how kids really work instead of how we'd like them to, we're finding out it actually makes them more likely to grow up as troublemakers.

Cecilia - posted on 02/25/2013

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i do remember that story. I remember my reaction to it too.

Realize it had very little to do with the father/ daughter relationship. It had to do with the mother and father's relationship. She supported and paid for the lawyer in this case. Why would she do that? She won custody of her daughter. If she had parents on the same page, she wouldn't have gotten anywhere with the case.

So in that case, it teaches us that if we decide to no longer be with each other remember it is important to communicate and be on the same page when it comes to discipline. Whole different story though. Really it doesn't even have to do with crime. The girl had committed no crime (cept maybe distributing pornography to a minor- yes a minor sending pictures of themselves it to another minor still counts as a crime)

Jodi - posted on 02/25/2013

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You can argue that it is fear of discipline all you like, but the FACT remains that the crime rate is not higher, so the whole discipline argument is irrelevant to increasing crime rates...they aren't increasing!!

Denikka - posted on 02/25/2013

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I`m with Wandadamido. There are many situations where parents are afraid to discipline their children due to the fear of repercussions. Not hit or abuse their children, straight out discipline them.
This story is a couple years old, but still holds a lot.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/s...

A grade 6 girl (12yrs old) was in the custody of her father (parents separated). Her mother had given permission for a school ski trip, but because of bad behaviour regarding online activity, the father grounded his daughter and refused to allow her to go on the trip. She sued him. And won. Then he appealed the decision and she won again.
On 2 separate occasions, a judge decided that he essentially had no standing to parent and discipline his daughter.

On at least a few occasions, I have seen parents approached for dealing with a tantrum and berated for not giving in to their kid. I have seen strangers step in and give the child what they were whining or tantruming about. I saw it with my own brother. He was about 5 or 6 at the time and was just starting to flip out about wanting a chocolate bar and, because of previous bad behaviour, my mom had told him no. So this older lady standing in line right behind us went ahead, bought him the chocolate bar and give it to him. I can`t remember exactly what she said, but it was something to the effect that *mom was just being mean and he didn`t deserve that, he was such a nice boy*
Me and my mom kind of went into shock, and in the few seconds it took to snap out of it, my brother had scarfed down the chocolate, so taking it away was no longer an option. But it wasn`t the first, or last time, that I have seen such behaviours.There`s a total undermining going on with parenting now.

From my understanding, there are issues with *time outs* in Australia in child care centers.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national...

Apparently thee regulation states that a child may not be *separated* but does not define exactly what *separated* means and so it`s open to interpretation. But an over zealous parent could argue that removing a child from an activity for any reason, including violent behaviours complies with the terms, and there can be large fines.

***But draft regulations with the legislation show childcare supervisors risk $2000 fines for "separating" children.

Supervisors must "ensure that a child being educated and cared for by the service is not separated from other children for any reason other than illness or an accident", the regulations state.***

How long will it be until regulations like this start spreading to other countries, and how long before it spreads to the individual home. I know there are places where any physical punishment is actively illegal and can be punishable through the courts. So the chances that these particular regulations will spread is not out of the realm of possibility.

Jodi - posted on 02/25/2013

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So we should have our children living in fear and everything would be all better?

It is probably more likely that 50,60,70 years ago that there WAS no adolescence. Instead, they went from school to work much younger. Nowadays, our children have a larger transition from childhood to adulthood that never existed before.

Angela - posted on 02/25/2013

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I'm 54 and British. A friend who is 20 years older than me said back when he was a child/teenager .....

"We were frightened of the local Police Officer, we were scared of our school teachers and we were bloody terrified of our own parents!"

Hence crime from young people was far less common back then!

Wandadamico - posted on 02/08/2013

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The crime rate is up in Florida. Parents are to afraid to discipline their children because it's considered child abuse. So these kids grow up with no respect or care for society.

Cecilia - posted on 02/07/2013

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I did look for an article that said it and i'm thinking i might have slightly misread. It says things like she got upset with him over [insert small thing here] Never actually says she punished him for said thing. I'm sorry for the confusion.

But you're right he made the choice to do what he did. Nothing provoked him into it. I'm saying that his choice was a result of not getting help. Every day how many people ride the line on choosing to kill themselves? If they do not seek help for it, odds are they are more likely to do it. Yes killing yourself and what he did are different. But both need professional help.

As far as I go, I left my parents home when i was 14 1/2. Moved in with my best friend's family and lived there until 16. Emancipated myself at 17. I have spoken to my mother since then. It took me a long time to search for her. I had to forgive her first. I have forgiven her but we do not have a close relationship. I did try to and realized that she is not healthy for me.

But because of my upbringing I have gone a very different direction with so called discipline. I do not hit or yell. I still hug my 15 year old. I do not feel the need to hit to get a point across. I am not able to do such actions to an adult, thus why do it to a child.

As far as the original post goes, many parents are like me and still discipline. My children do not need to fear physical punishment to fear consequences.

Kristi - posted on 02/05/2013

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Cecilia--

Do you have a link to an article(s) that states Adam Lanza's mother was strict and ignored his mental health issues? From the coverage I've seen, neighbors said she gave up her job and a great deal of her life to take care of him because of his special needs. It was "rumored" and I'm not sure by who, but I heard or read it more than once, that she was getting ready to move to WA state to give him a fresh start and so he could start taking classes.

Coming from a relatively strict but very fair home and now trying to provide that same environment for my daughter, I can honestly tell you, we would not have been allowed to sit around playing life-like, violent video games all day. Spanking has been going on for generations in my family as it has in most of my peer group's. The large majority are successful, productive members of society...no killers yet. ; )

I have suffered with mental illness since I was about 14-15 years old. My dad was strict. I obviously wasn't still getting spankings at this age. My parents tried to get me help. Nobody could really figure out what was wrong with me and I wasn't thrilled about going to counseling anyways so whatever, I quit going. About the same age as Adam Lanza, I began drinking like there was no tomorrow. I was engaging in lots of high risk activities. NOT ONCE did I ever, ever, even remotely entertain the idea of killing someone, not even the guy who raped me, let alone a school room full of 1st graders.

It was not his mother's fault, it was not the video games, it was not his autism, it was not the school supposedly not having enough security...he made a choice to murder his mother while she slept, not in the heat of the moment during a huge argument or from being abused all his life, but while she was defenseless and asleep. Then he chose to get in a car and drive to the school. When he was denied access, he chose, again, to shoot his way in. Then he chose to kill defenseless educators and even worse children. Not teenagers that ever bullied and humilated him, just innocent, helpless 5-6 year olds. When he heard the police sirens, he chose, one last time, to take his own life period.

I'm sorry you were abused as a child. I can't imagine what that must feel like. That was not discpline. I hope you have been able to work through it so you could find peace in your life. No child should ever be mistreated like that. I deplore crimes against children and I am looking for ways to help combat that and see to tougher penalties for those that commit such crimes but there are very little opportunities for things like that where I live. I commend you for finding ways to raise respectable, well behaved children without having to spank.

editted for clarification and I left out a word

Cecilia - posted on 02/04/2013

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Are we really blaming video games? That does not surprise me.

http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter...

I'm not using fox news, i'm using Harvard...

Mind you i'm reading it as the 38% of parents who notice a difference in some form could be anything.

Sorry but wrestling games do have my kids trying to bounce off a couch and such. But Playing grand theft auto has not taught them to run over a hooker to get their money back. The reason, wrestling is real to them. They can easily reenact it. All my kids have played it. At a young age also. Go ahead and tell me i'm horrible. I've played it. It is actually really great way to get rid of frustrations. I go run some people over , laughing as they fly through the air and i feel so much better. Yep i'm a sick puppy. Mind you i don't think a 4 year old should play it. I do feel parents should explain fake violence and real violence. I do not believe there is Modern warfare that involves a school full of kids.

Cecilia - posted on 02/04/2013

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I think there are the same number of criminals as there always has been per capita. There are more people thus there seem to be more criminals. Or maybe our ability to catch them has been upgraded so much that we can convict without much doubt. (you know DNA and such)

Our ability to connect with the world so quickly we know what is going on more than we did before. The internet is a great tool. It may seem like there are more criminals because we hear about the ones that will never show up on our local news stations.

Do we have a link saying that crime has actually gone up? Sorry if it's been posted but i didn't read the responses yet.

People still discipline, just the methods have changed. Guess what it changes with every generation. We learn more and more. Sometimes parents do not believing in treating their own children the way they were treated. I was 13 getting my @ss beat over a dirty dish. No kidding. My parents, although they did what they thought was right, kept me from smacking my own children around.

The truth is the school shooter had a strict mother. She tried her best. By your own example"35 years ago" he still would fall under the age group where his parents would still do what you call "discipline." He had a mental condition that was not taken care of. So instead of beating your kids maybe the lesson you should take behind the school shooting is to take care of your children's mental health. That is also the lesson you should take away from all the suicides... just saying we're ignoring the obvious here.

Kristi - posted on 01/23/2013

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I forgot about that thread Denikka, but I did post the original story and the follow up with the reversal. Thanks for putting that up here so people can chime in on that specifically if they want.

Jodi - posted on 01/23/2013

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Kristi, it's late here, and I haven't actually digested your entire post (apologies), but you linked Fox News.....um, yeah.....

I will decipher your post tomorrow (not because it NEEDS to be deciphered, but because I am too freaking tired to bother reading it totally right now;)

Kristi - posted on 01/23/2013

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I'm glad I saw this because these are questions I find myself wondering about. I think about my childhood into my teen years and I can't remember ever hearing about the kind of crime happening today. If someone had asked me what a pedophile was back in the day I probably would have said some sort of file to get dead skin off your feet (ped)? But Grace, 13 and Jonathan, 11 can tell you all about who and what they are and they have been able to do so for a few years now.

Up or down, there is no one reason for any of these violent crimes. I do think lack of discipline is a contributing factor. The things I see kids get away with today and the way I hear them talk to other adults (parents, teachers, store clerks) is unbelievable. If I ever spoke to an adult like I've heard some of these kids do, I'd have been wearing dentures for about 25 years now because my dad would have knocked my teeth down my throat.

I feel like our youth are growing up immune to violence because they are surrounded by it on tv, in the movies, video games, bullying at school, and then like Jodi and/or Denikka said, we are feeding them all the violence they need (sarcasm) under the pretense of safety and prevention. Unfortunately, we the people drive the ratings for the news outlets and the comments on social media so until we let up on our thirst for more "knowledge," Batman and Sandy Hook will continue down the path to stardom leaving in their wake new, aspiring wanna be's.

It seems like things have spun so far out of control. What does it say about a society or a nation that deems it necessary and fit to suspend a first grader for using his thumb and finger as a gun and pointing it at another child and "shooting" it? Granted, he'd been warned, he directed his "threat" to one specific child and so on, the school has a zero tolerance policy....but are we that far gone?

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/01/03/fir...

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2013/01/06/sch...

I don't even know where to start with our criminal "justice" system. The sentences are so inconsistent. Rape victims have to prove their innonce instead of the rapist having to prove his. You want to stop gun violence, enforce the laws we have to the max and/or make stronger ones. Prosecute the drug runners caught at the border with pounds and pounds of illegal drugs in their vehicles who claim they didn't know it was there. Oh and quit giving prisoners more perks than some hard working people don't even get because they can't afford them.

I'm pretty sure this is going no where. I've been up for like 20 hours and I'm pretty sure there might be some lines from I Love Lucy mixed in here some where. Please forgive my babbling. I hope something was coherent.

Jodi - posted on 01/18/2013

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Yes, I did some research too. After I read a book called "Too Safe For Their Own Good" (great book), and it pointed out that our kids are actually SAFER today than they ever were, but we are treating them like there is more danger and crime, and it is causing problems in their growth, and they are finding different ways to rebel now as a result. It was a good eye opener on finding balance as a parent.

♫ Shawnn ♪♫♫ - posted on 01/18/2013

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I know. I used to ask the same question. But then I thought about it. In my little corner of the world, I've seen crime actually go down. We don't have 1/2 the violent crime that we used to. But its the sensationalism that gets every one in an uproar, and paints the picture to be worse than it actually is, so that when something happens (especially in a "small town") it's immediately headline news internationally.

School shootings happened back in the day. Hostage situations happened back in the day. One combined incident in a rural town in Wyoming back in the (I'm not sure but I think) 50's or 60's involved an entire school (100 or so kids) that were taken hostage by some wackos that had built a school bus into a bomb, and invaded the school with rifles. I don't recall the mortality rate in that one, but it was a far larger scale attempt than some of the more recent ones. The only reason no one got in a huge uproar was that it wasn't instant sensationalism. Those folks who did it did NOT get their 15 minutes of fame. They did, however get prison time, if I recall.

♫ Shawnn ♪♫♫ - posted on 01/18/2013

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Or is it because you didn't have the internet 20 years ago. The news media was not what it is today.

It only seems as if we have a higher criminal element today than we did 20-30 years ago, because now you can hear, read and see the news from all over the world instantly.

As Sylvia says, overall, crime rates are lower than 20 years ago.

And you seem to not be taking into consideration that the perpetrators of the violent massacres have with out fail been found to have mental health problems. Which, 20 years ago, we just isolated and confined the developmentally challenged, rather than assisting them. Now there are attempts to assist them, but not enough are being made to be treated, such as the Adam Lantz's of the world. It was blatantly obvious, yet there was no treatment given to that person. I'm not excusing his actions, but parents and families need to take responsibility for their impaired members

Jodi - posted on 01/18/2013

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But it isn't increasing. It is the same. But then again, maybe it depends where you live. Crime rates are the same in Australia that they were 20-30 years ago. I am sure these claims that it is worse is the result of someone's agenda.

Becky - posted on 01/17/2013

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I think a large part of it is the increasing lack of community. Our values nowadays seem so geared towards the individual - my rights, my wealth, my well-being, etc and I think we have really lost the sense of community and cooperation with our fellow humans that there used to be. Once upon a time, people relied on each other. You helped your neighbor. Now, we rely on ourselves and we put ourselves first. When children are raised in this type of culture, with a focus on themselves and their needs and desires first, above all else, I think they are more likely to grow up to be narcissistic and uncaring, and, as others mentioned, lacking in empathy. And then, with the right trigger, it's not such a huge step to go into a school with a semi-automatic weapon...
This is just my perception though, I don't have any studies to back it up.

Amanda - posted on 01/16/2013

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Our mental health facilities are being increasingly de-funded, our private prison system is growing out of control, and our justice system is generally a joke. Our liberties are being picked apart and taken away, and one who does not have liberty cannot protect liberty. We've become more and more self-centered, judgmental, and desensitized to violence thanks to sensationalist media.

It seems about half the mass shootings in the last 60 years have been committed by the mentally ill, or where suspected to be mentally ill.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012...

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012...

Lady Heather - posted on 01/15/2013

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I don't think there is any form of discipline in existence that could do anything to prevent mass shootings. People don't do that because they lack discipline. Most of us wouldn't need to be told that it's not right to shoot a bunch of people. Empathy is gone and there's got to be a reason for that and it's nothing to do with spankings or whatever.

Dove - posted on 01/15/2013

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Because there are more people in the world.....

Do you have links showing that we have more criminals now? Or is it just your opinion because we hear more about it now? How old were you 35 years ago to formulate this opinion? ;)

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