Why vaxers are pissed

Katherine - posted on 01/03/2011 ( 64 moms have responded )

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I know, I know. Just roll with it.



I just got back from the pediatrician where my son got a flu test. First of all, I didn't even know one could get a test for the flu. Probably because the inequity of health care in this country meant my doctor in a city across the country didn't have access to the same thing during the H1N1 scare. But that's another rant. Right now, I'm royally pissed at whatever parent at my son's day care decided not to get the flu shot for his baby.



My son is fine. His cough and runny nose are the run-of-the-mill cold. And, according to my physician, we can thank the flu shot for him only having mildly annoying symptoms rather than potentially life-threatening in the very young, very old, and immune compromised.



But I'm not thanking the baby and his parents who brought flu into the day care in the first place.



The baby's parents didn't want to get the vaccine, and now they're probably dealing with a very sick child, which is really punishment enough. But the rest of us who have snuffly kids had to get our own children tested to make sure their illnesses weren't also the flu. Our day care is very cautious that way and I appreciate the massive effort to stop a potential epidemic before it starts.



But that means I had to take off work, drive all the way across town (have you seen how much gas costs in LA lately?) and after that bring my kiddo home with me and plop him in front of the TV (which I don't ever want to do) while I work. Not at all how I anticipated spending a chunk of my day.



Take my slice of time and money and multiple it by the other parents at not only my day care, but any child care facility or school across the country with parents who have zero regard for other families when they "choose" not to vaccinate their kids and wind up spreading disease. Disease, or the threat of disease which is also incredibly disruptive. That's a huge cost to the rest of us for your "choice" don't ya' think?



Someone owes me some gas money, and approximately three hours. Who's paying up?



http://thestir.cafemom.com/baby

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~Jennifer - posted on 01/04/2011

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Kati.....to me, flu shots are a crap-shoot in the first place. They pretty much 'guess' at which strain(s) will be prevalent that year, and make the vaccine accordingly.....and then you end up with a different strain of the flu.
Methinks the vaccines are pretty pointless (for MY family, at least....)

Ez - posted on 01/03/2011

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Using the flu shot as an example doesn't do much for this cause. I do vaccinate, but the flu vax is not routinely done in children in Aus.



Now if we're talking whooping cough (for example), that is a whole other ball game. If my young baby caught it from an unvaxxed kid I would be PISSED and out for the parents' blood.



Edit: My daughter does not get the flu vax and I have no intention of starting unless circumstances change. I actually don't know a single child (apart from chronic asthmatics) who get this shot. The only reason I get it myself is because I'm a medical secretary.

[deleted account]

Most vaxers don't get the flu shot. Surely that means she isn't just annoyed with non-vaxers, she is actually annoyed with most people including vaxers. She's just having a general vent and that's fine, but venting about the flu shot isn't the best way encourage real vaccines.

[deleted account]

You have to weigh up the risks of vaccinating v. the risks of not. In the case of the flu shot, the risks outweigh the benefits for most people. The benefits of vaccines that provide lifelong immunity and herd immunity outweigh the risks for most people. That's not the case for everyone though. I've got friends who's kids have got sick from vaccines so they have opted out of any future ones. For those parents the risk of vaccinating is too high, but they still get slated by pro-vaxers who think they should put their kids safety at risk for the greater good.

JuLeah - posted on 01/04/2011

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On the flip side, there are equal number of stories of kids who did get the vaccine and got sick anyway, or worse, (like my child) had a really really bad reaction and ended up in the hospital for three days. To vaccinate is not always the right answer

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[deleted account]

Laci my mum works in health care and has never had the flu shot...and has never had the flu either i had it 12 months before Marshall felt like hell but I would of preferred to of gotten the flu than a needle im terrified of needles so my doctor has to do a lot of convincing for any sort of jab

Samara - posted on 01/07/2011

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"I am seriously surprised (allergies aside) at how many people DON"T get the flu shot.

Why is that? So what if it's a crap shoot? Maybe it will help. I've always gotten it, save for this year, and never gotten it." `Katherine



It's very simple. 1)the shot doesn't protect you 100% against the flu so most people end up getting sick with it anyways (even if it is a different strain). 2) If you aren't in the high risk category you are just using up what the old and the young need. You see their immune systems aren't as good as someone 20-50. They can die from it, generally we can't. Our immune systems fight it off. so what if it take 3-5 days sometimes. 3) if its true that the H1N1 is killing children its a damn good thing for those LOs who didn't get it, don't ya think?



Really all the flu shot is for the low risk community is a hope that you won't get sick. I know and understand that no one likes to be sick but it's over kill if you don't need it. I think H1N1 got under everyones skin because it was killing mexicans. Guess what, they don't have the clean facilities and health care that we do. Of course their immune system is going to be as good as ours.



It really comes down to keeping yourself healthy by taking vitamins, eating healthy and washing your hands.



The flu virus lives everywhere and they can live up to and even over 48 hours outside of the body!! Anything you touch could be infected at any given time. It really is a shot in the dark.



You can't get rid of the germs or the possibility of getting sick. We just have to live with it.

LaCi - posted on 01/07/2011

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Well that's good to know. I'll probably get it if I end up working in a hospital, it might make me less itchy.

Katherine - posted on 01/07/2011

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I've worked in healthcare on and of and I don't remember having to get it. I don't THINK it was mandatory, just recommended. I don't quite remember though.

LaCi - posted on 01/07/2011

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Honestly? because I'm not worried about the flu. I'd be much more worried about potential side effects from the flu shot since, like I said and knock on wood again, I've never gotten the flu and never had the shot. Maybe I have a kick ass immune system. I don't care if other people do or don't get the shot.



It would be just my luck that I would be that girl who ended up with gillain barre syndrome after the flu shot. Just my freakin' luck. Exposed to the dreaded swine flu epidemic multiple times and came out without a sniffle, but dies from a vaccine. :)





I think that once I start working in healthcare I'm like, required to get it every year. So be it, whatever, I just don't find it necessary.

Katherine - posted on 01/07/2011

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I am seriously surprised (allergies aside) at how many people DON"T get the flu shot.
Why is that? So what if it's a crap shoot? Maybe it will help. I've always gotten it, save for this year, and never gotten it.


Knock on wood.

Emma - posted on 01/07/2011

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My kids have had you standard vaccination's but we don't do flu shots.
Saying that as a family if 1 of us gets a cold once a year its a lot, we are just not sickly people, a cold that puts down my kids friends for a week my kids kick in a day or two max.
I put it down to our policy of not going OTT on the anti bacterial products. I swear those things are bad for everyones immune systems.

[deleted account]

I don't get the flu shot for my son but i don't live in a very big place and my son doesn't go to day care but if he did go to day care and he was sick i'd keep him at home. as for H1N1 shot i've had mine but in QLD i believe the standing is children under 5 can't have it...something about bad reactions causing death in other states that and my son has an egg allergy which means he can't have either

Kim - posted on 01/06/2011

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Up until last year I could not get my older kids vaccinated for the flu. They were not in the group considered at risk. But I did work in Daycares and I hated when parents would bring in their sick, usually with the flu, kids in and expect us to care for them. They should not have been there and when we would call they would say how they have to wait until the next train to their car and it would take all day!! Then poor them would get sick and couldn't care for their kid(sorry jerk, but no sympathy from me you sent your child when they felt like that!!!) and actually want extra hours, well guess what all the teachers now have it thanks to you and there is no one to watch your kid extra hours or days!! But you can't get the flu shot everywhere and then not everyone is allowed to so I can't see putting them in with the other vaccines. And the flu shot is a crap shoot. I get the flu shot every year but a different strain went around and boy we were all sick!!

Katherine - posted on 01/05/2011

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She's just having a general vent and that's fine, but venting about the flu shot isn't the best way encourage real vaccines.

@ ALI, that's exactly what I got from it.

[deleted account]

I have to agree that the article in the OP venting about the flu vaccine kind of trivialises the real issue of risk assessment, containment and preventative measures taken by non-vaccinating parents. A lot of people don't vaccinate against the flu, you can catch it by going anywhere in public, taking your infant or child anywhere like the mall, the airport etc etc puts them at risk not just of flu but any contagious disease/illness. The very real issue of containing anyone (unvaccinated, partially vaccinated or even fully vaccinated) that has been exposed to a contagious disease and is at risk of carrying and spreading it to a more vulnerable population is essentially what I guess is her complaint, specifically when it comes to children in childcare and school scenarios. But by reducing it to a 'someone owes me for my time because my child got sick' really doesn't do her cause any good in my opinion.

[deleted account]

I haven't read all the comments, I skimmed, so forgive me if I repeat anything already said.

We don't do flu shots. Jacob is vaccinated and up to date, but has also never had a flu shot. Mostly, my reason is that the strain of flu they use to vaccinate with probably won't be the strain that goes around that same year. According to the pediatrician we had in Florida, flu shots take so long to be approved for the public that by the time they make it to the general public, they are strains that were around sometimes up to 10 years ago....not gonna do me or my kid any good anyhow. So people who don't do the flu shots don't bother me.

People who don't vax at all, yeah that bothers me, scares the shit outta me actually.

And people who send their kids to school when they are obviously ill enough to be contagious? Those people are just thoughtless. Yes, kids get sick. But if it can be prevented, it should be. If I send my sick child to school and he gets 10 other kids sick, and so on, it doesn't just affect me. It affects countless other parents who have to take time off from work, all those other kids that get sick for no reason, it costs money for everyone that really shouldn't be necessary. If my kid is sick and I stay home with him, better just my one kid be sick than an entire classroom.

Stifler's - posted on 01/04/2011

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it's a good question though kati, i never thought about that. i got the flu shot once and got way less sick that year and i get the flu every year.

Rosie - posted on 01/04/2011

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i understand it's not the right answer in all cases, and i get that it's a crap shoot sometimes, but if you can protect your kid from getting 3 strains of the flu then i guess i don't see why anybody wouldn't. what's the harm in vaxxing against it?

and yes i understand what the thread is about, i got curious as to why the flu vax isn't as important to some as other vaccines. it really doesn't make sense to me. sorry for changing the direction of the thread. :)

Mother - posted on 01/04/2011

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@JuLeah. Thank you. There are severe vaccine reactions on both sides of our family. We don't vaccinate. Have you ever heard of Homeoprophylaxis. I have a few studies if you're interested. They have great numbers for immune success rate and no harmful chemicals. I don't know the cost but I'm sure we could find out.

Janessa - posted on 01/04/2011

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I think those who are going to be in daycares and in school should be vaccinated. For those who choose to homeschool or not to put their kids in daycares should have the right not to vaccinated. My son is not fully vaccinated because he is way to young for all of those drugs going into his body. I am not against vaccination but i do not agree with all of those vaccine being in little ones at a young age they should space the vaccines out. My son has ony had one vaccine at 14 months and I am planning to get him his second sometime in January.

Jodi - posted on 01/04/2011

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I also don't think it as easy as "keep your kids home when they are sick". Many of the diseases we vaccinate against are contagious before they present any symptoms. That's a part of the problem. Basically, it comes down to IF your unvaccinated child has been in any way exposed to someone with these diseases, you need to start isolating them, otherwise there is the chance they will pass it on before you can even be sure they have contracted the disease.

Mother - posted on 01/04/2011

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There are 3 strains in a flu shot. This year is contains H1N1, H3N2 virus and an influenza B virus

Dana - posted on 01/04/2011

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Yes, they're never sure of all the flu strains that pop up and will be going around but, they can be pretty sure of which ones will and they put those strains in the flu shot, which if you notice I say strains because there is more than one strain in the shot.

Mother - posted on 01/04/2011

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The cough in Walmart could have been croup. Hard to distinguish sometimes. But still and all.....keep the children AT HOME!!!

Katherine - posted on 01/04/2011

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I see everyone's point about not getting the flu shot. It's just pointless, because like Jenn said, they don't know which strain it's going to be.
I DO get it fomy girls though. It's everyone's prerogative.

Kate CP - posted on 01/04/2011

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I am very pro-vaccine, I have an immune disorder AND smoking induced asthma and even *I* don't do the flu shot. I'm going to echo what other ladies have said thus far: seems kind of pointless in most cases. :/

Rosie - posted on 01/04/2011

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why though?? isn't it a contagious deadly disease? up to 49,000 people dying from the flu, and 200,000 getting the flu in a year is crazy to me. i don't know, maybe it's just my experience with it, but it's nothing to be taken lightly at all.

Becky - posted on 01/04/2011

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Well, I totally agree with that, Loureen. If your child is ill, vaccinated or not, you should keep them away from other children. You never know which children cannot be vaccinated and so are vulnerable, or which children are more vulnerable because of being premature, having respiratory issues, having an immune disorder, etc. Even taking them shopping or something like that is irresponsible, IMO. I'm pretty sure my son got Coxsackie virus from a shopping cart, because he hadn't been around any kids who were ill and no one we knew had it.

[deleted account]

To me, the flu shot is NOTHING like regular vaccines. It cannot be lumped in the same category. We don't do the flu jabs...only people who are high risk need them.

Sharon - posted on 01/04/2011

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I have now heard TWO babies with whooping cough at our local walmart. In the food section.

There is no mistaking that repeated sound.

I STARED at the toddlers each time. Just mesmerised that I was probably looking at death. I barely glanced at the women with them. Both of them older and both gave dour looks.

Both babies looked hideously ill. I thank god that I didn't have any small children and I don't know anyone with small children.

Katherine - posted on 01/04/2011

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THANK YOU LOUREEN!

By the way, I'm really sorry I didn't post the link, this is a blog from The Stir on Cafemom.

Charlie - posted on 01/04/2011

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I think everyone has missed the point of the post entirely , it is less about what type of shot but the fact someone let an infected child be around others .
The flu shot is a bad example yes but I don't think the intention was to focus on that so much .

Samara - posted on 01/04/2011

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I used to get the flu vax when I was in nursing school. And I loved it. I convinced my DH to get it when We had DS. DS is 2 now and I didn't get it for him this year either. I stopped this year because they put the H1N1 in the mix. I did my research. This isn't a new strain. It was going around in the 70's (i believe, it's been awhile since I did the research). At that time the vax killed more people than the flu itself. Because of this I opted to wait and see what was going to happen. We have not had the flu in the two years we have not received the vax.

I just want to add that it isn't all about the vax either. It has a lot to do with your immune system. Eat right, take your vitamins... We take echinacea too.

I agree with a pp that this would be very different if it were rubella or something.

Rosie - posted on 01/04/2011

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why is the flu not as important to protect against as other diseases that we vax for? i'm confused as to why those who get other vaccinations don't think much of the flu?

Amie - posted on 01/04/2011

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Oh and because there are people who DON'T keep there lil ones home when they're sick mine have been exposed to whooping cough a couple times and rubella once. Nice. Makes me glad mine are vax'd, none of them ended up with anything but I have wondered about the kids who they went to daycare/school with who could not be vax'd. There are a couple kids we know who can not be.

Amie - posted on 01/04/2011

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I have no problem with people not getting the flu shot. I don't get it and neither does anyone else in our family, ever.

I've had the flu a few times in my life, once ending up in the hospital over night. I ended up in the hospital because I was so ill but the flu was not the only thing I had. Each time I end up with the flu badly, I generally get something else as well. When I was in the hospital I had tonsillitis, the flu and bronchitis all rolled into one. It was a fun few weeks recovering from that. =/ I still will not get the shot.

I don't even have a real issue with people sending their kid to school with the sniffles or a slight cough. My real issue, is when kids are obviously very ill and their parents still send them to daycare/school! Really?!

I don't care the inconvenience it causes to your life or your family. I don't. If my kids are ill, they stay home, so not to infect those around them. I am fully aware there are some kids who can not get vax'd and they are the reason mine stay home. Admittedly I am a SAHM but I was not always one. There has even been a time when 3 of our were sick enough that my husband called into work to stay home with me. They all had a stomach bug and were throwing up every where for 2 days, nasty.

In short, if your kids sick, really sick... keep that germ fest home. =/

Shauna - posted on 01/04/2011

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Im not saying i dont Vax b/c i do. I did get my son Vaccinated for the flu shot, i dont get myself b/c i really never get the flu the few times i have it really didnt affect me all that much. Im just simply saying you really dont know where you get sicknesses and you cant blame one person. And to say someone owes you time and money b/c you had to be a parent and take your child home from daycare is kinda ridiculous

Mother - posted on 01/04/2011

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Have to agree with you Shauna. You could get it anywhere. Post office, grocery store, work, Coffee drive thru.....you name it. I've only ever known a handful of people who ever got the shot. My Dad against ALL my advice went and got the shot about 4 years ago. His tune changed when he landed himself in the hospital because of it. Not only did his arm swell up the size of a watermelon, hot to touch, red and hard. On top of all that he ended up with the flu. And all too frequent story. So I suppose it all depends on what your experience leads you to decide. I waited until he was better to say...." I TOLD YOU SO". *laffin* I think the flu shot is useless and considering the number of strains out there the odds of them getting it right is slim. So even if you get the shot you 're quite possibly and most likely not protected. A flu is a flu. If you keep your immune system in good repair you may get it but not was severe. And if you do get sick...proper care. Its all we can do.

Rosie - posted on 01/04/2011

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i have a hard time with people not getting the flu shot. i simply don't understand why people who have no aversions to it would forgoe getting it. i've had the flu twice in my life and each time i thought i was going to die. why would i wish that on my kids or myself again??
i wasn't concerned about the flu the first time i got it and my middle kid was the only one vaccinated. he didn't get it, everyone else did. we were all miserable trolls, who couldn't function for at least a week. my baby was hospitalized at the end of the week and spent another 5 days in the hospital. it fucking sucked. it was hell.
this year i acquired the flu again along with my husband. i was vaccinated he was not. BUT we got influenza type A, which is not in this years shot. so obviously i know it doesn't protect against getting the flu at all. i just would like to try to avoid the flu at all costs if i can. having it is worse than anything else i have ever experienced, and watching my kids have it and be hospitalized?? fucking hell. i will never understand just letting your kid go out there without trying to protect them.

Shauna - posted on 01/04/2011

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i can understand you being pissed.... BUT. how do you know it came from daycare? You can catch the flu anywhere. It just find some of your statements a little agravating. I worked in a childcare and so many times when we would send a little one home ill all the parents worried about was missing work, and would rush to bring their child back in asap. And then they would point fingers blaming who may have been the cause of the sickness, in reality you really dont know. I would just be thankful my litttle one is feeling better, and that its nothing serious. KIDS GET SICK!!!!! i dont think anyone owes you anything!!! when you decide to be a parent, we all know we may have to miss a little bit of work and spend some extra time, money on our children.

~Jennifer - posted on 01/04/2011

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...never bothered with the flu shots......don't see myself starting them either.

Mother - posted on 01/04/2011

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Even tho I'm the only non-vax person on both sides of my family. No one in my entire family or extended family do the flu shot. They take a wild guess at what strain will be going around the following year and thats the strain they use. If its not the strain going around.....it would be useless anyways.



And I second what Tara and Sarah said.

User - posted on 01/04/2011

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I think the issue is more about parents sending their children to daycare/school when they're obviously too ill to be there, because they can't be bothered to make alternative arrangements. When I was teaching a mother brought her child in who had been up all night being sick, and still looked pretty green. She said, "Can I just leave him for a couple of hours, while I go to a really important meeting, I'll come and fetch him later." It was obviously fine with her that he could pass the bug onto all the other kids and the staff. She was politely told no.

LaCi - posted on 01/04/2011

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I vaccinate, but not a single person in the house gets the flu shot.



I have never, EVER, had a flu shot, and never in my life have I had the flu. (Knocks on wood)



Anyway, using a flu shot to illustrate vaccination for serious diseases is just silly, in my opinion.





And who the fuck goes to the doctor over the sniffles?

Jodi - posted on 01/04/2011

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"Well, I think she used the flu shot as an example? And she's just pissed about the whole non-vaxxing thing." That's what I got from it as well.

Katherine - posted on 01/04/2011

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I did both of my girls, simply because my 5yo is in school and it's mainly Muslim. I know a lot of Muslims don't vax and another reason is that I have a 21mo.
I want to keep her as protected as I can because she is so young.
I know it doesn't protect against all strains, but if I can stop even one I'm going to.

Tara - posted on 01/04/2011

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I have to say that I don't do flu shots, in Canada they still contain Thimerosal. And for me, that's not a risk I will take. I also don't do them because they are formulated to combat one type of flu, often times there are more than one type of flu going around.
If anyone tried to tell me I had to give my kids the flu shot, I would tell them where they could stick it.
I'm sorry about your issues, and it's unfortunate that this baby turned up at day care sick.
But the flu shot is not the same as getting a polio vaccine etc. the flu changes every year, it adapts to our attempts to eradicate it. The flu can be serious to the young and the old and the immuno compromised, but it's not measles, mumps, or whooping cough etc.
all of which don't discriminate based on age, etc.
No flu shots here for any of us.

Jodi - posted on 01/04/2011

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I don't do the flu shot either. My husband does, because as a diabetic, he is in the high risk category, but I don't feel the rest of us are. I did do some research on it, and in a lifetime, the average person only actually gets the flu 2-3 times. The rest of the time it is a common cold (just varying in severity). Flu vaccines also don't immunise against any new flu that mutates that season.

IF I was going to be in close contact with someone who couldn't have the shot but could end up very sick as a result (such as a cancer patient, or someone with other chronic illness unable to have the shot for whatever reason), I would consider it.

I do vaccinate against most other things. Just never really been able to find the justification for the flu shot.

Katherine - posted on 01/04/2011

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Well, I think she used the flu shot as an example? And she's just pissed about the whole non-vaxxing thing. That's what I got anyways.
I'm sure there are exceptions....not everyone CAN get the shot.

Caitlin - posted on 01/04/2011

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This person should get off her damn high horse. Kids get sick, flu shot or not. It's part of being a parent. If you think that everyone being vaccinated will mean you will never have to take time off work to take care of your sick child, then your bloody dillusional!

My daughter can't get the flu shot, and I dread her getting the flu, but honestly, the flu shot doesn't protect you from every kind of flu, so suck it up, it's what you signed up for when you became a parent.

(Now, any of the routine vaccinations, MMR etc.. I'd be pissed)

Katherine - posted on 01/04/2011

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Alahnna, the flu shot CANNOT make you sick. It's a dead virus. You were probably already in the throes of getting sick.
Just saying.

Trish - posted on 01/04/2011

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I'm not sure how your kid/s getting a cold means someone owes you money or time. Even if all the kids at your preschool got the flu vaccine, that doesn't mean none of those kids won't or can't get the flu. The vaccine only covers a few strains and there are hundreds out there. Many not even identified. Be happy we have vaccines at all, chalk it up to your kid's immune system improving with every illness he gets, and deal.

Alahnna - posted on 01/04/2011

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I would just like to point out that for myself and my children, the flu shot made us sicker. We all have our routine shots up to date but had never had the flu shot. When my daughter started primary and I started community college the same year, I decided to get the flu shot for all 3 of us. That whole year, we were sicker than we had ever been the 5 years before. I mean, all 3 of us were sick pretty much the whole year. So, the next year I did not get flu shots and we each had a cold maybe twice, once when the weather changed for winter and once in the spring. So far this year, (and I'm gonna knock on wood here) we have all had a cold once and it only lasted a couple days with a bit of a cough, runny nose and sore throat. I will not be getting flus shots again.

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