WTF???

America3437 - posted on 08/27/2013 ( 18 moms have responded )

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So my daughter comes home today and tells me they are no longer allowed to say the Pledge because it has the word "God" in it but they have a moment of silence for those who would like to pray!!!! Thoughts?

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Mary - posted on 08/30/2013

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America, this country was NOT founded on a "religious basis", it was founded on the principles of religious FREEDOM. Big.Fucking.Difference.

It should also be noted that the original Pledge of Allegiance, written in 1892, was as follows:

"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

It has been modified over the years. In 1923, the words "my Flag" were changed to "the Flag of the United States of America". The words "under god" were not officially added until 1954, although efforts to add this began in the late 1940's, most notably by the Catholic organization, The Knights of Columbus..

I think it's interesting to note that this was around the same time, and under the same president (Eisenhower) that the motto of the United States was changed. The original motto was "E pluribus unum" (out of many, one); it was changed to "In God We Trust" in 1956, two years after the changes were made to the pledge.

Personally, I think we should go back to the way things were for BOTH the pledge and the motto. The originals were not divisive or offensive to anyone, and included ALL citizens, regardless of their personal belief systems. They are also reflective on the basis in which our country was founded...life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Jodi - posted on 09/04/2013

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Did you actually read the post about the history of the pledge? Maybe you are the one who has not read the posts and does not seem to understand that it is Christians who imposed the reference to God in the pledge on citizens, not the Founding Fathers? No-one is wiping out history, simply suggesting it isn't appropriate in public schools. How can you provide a democratic right to a moment of silence while the rest are shouting out the pledge? It's a bit contradictory. If you want your kids to say the pledge, have them say it over breakfast in the morning.

And just for the record, I am not an anti-history person. I am a history teacher. Maybe you should research your history a little better.

http://www.ushistory.org/documents/pledg...

"In 1954, in response to the Communist threat of the times, President Eisenhower encouraged Congress to add the words "under God," creating the 31-word pledge we say today."

Unless your country was established in 1954, I'm sorry, but you were not founded "under God".

♫ Shawnn ♪♫♫ - posted on 09/03/2013

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Um, this is definitely not a new deal, my kids never learned the Pledge of Allegiance in school because those who aren't of a "christian" religion, and don't believe in God, per se, (They have Budda, Allah, etc, or in the case of atheists, no God) claimed it offended them and was against their religions.

So, by allowing a "moment of silence", those who wish to have a prayer may, those who don't won't, and no one will be bothering anyone else.

Beyond that, Kristi, Kelly, & Mary have stated it excellently.

Mary - posted on 09/04/2013

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Margaret, I can only assume that you did not read my previous post, and that you are not a fan of historical accuracy.

I'll give you a brief recap. The original pledge, penned in 1892, was as follows:

"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Please note, there was NO mention of "God" in the original pledge. That wasn't added until 1954. What I find even more interesting is that it's author, Francis Bellamy, although a Baptist minister, had the good sense to keep any mention of a god or religion out of this patriotic pledge. It was about fealty to country, not any particular deity or personal belief system. Also noteworthy is that Bellamy was a Christian Socialist. He championed socialism, the rights of the working man, and the equal distribution of wealth and resources among all. He was eventually ousted from his own church for his socialist sermons, and his repeated preaching about "Jesus the socialist". He eventually stopped attending church altogether over his disgust for the inequality and racism he witnessed within the leaders and members of his congregation.

Firebird - posted on 08/29/2013

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The U.S.A. was founded by people who left their country to get away from religious rule. It has no religious basis whatsoever. No one is stepping on anyone's right to believe, they're just "finally" allowing some consideration for those who believe differently. That's what true freedom is about. If some kids decide it's that important to say the Pledge, I highly doubt anyone would say a word against it if they did it before class started or during a recess or lunch break.

No religion has any place in a public school, so I for one, see it as very considerate that a school allows a silent moment during class time for any kind of prayer at all. The world is changing to make allowances for people's differences, so people can choose to believe in a god or not to believe in a god without ridicule. Opinions like yours are, sadly, hindering that progress.

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Mother - posted on 11/16/2013

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I personally think the moment of silence is fitting for all. If you want everything to include GOD then go to a christian school. It has no business being in a PUBLIC school where many different cultures are learning. I'm in Canada and there was a huge uproar when the Lords Prayer was removed for the public school sect. I was quite happy because we, as Canadians pride ourselves on being multicultural and a diverse Country.....time to put our money where our mouths are.

Marcia - posted on 09/12/2013

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Allah is God also , Sounds unusual to hear his name in a different language , but same God

Amanda - posted on 09/12/2013

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Tell her to stand and say it anyway. If it bothers anyone else well that's too bad.

Margaret Chiara - posted on 09/04/2013

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I totally agree. I guess for some reason you didn´t understand my post. Thanks to Christian concepts, we have democracy and freedoms. I am catholic and went to public schools along side protestants, muslims, budhists, atheists, etc., and my son now does as well, and I think it is a wonderful thing that we can live with such diversity. I thank God for the humanistic occidental world Christianity formed, in which such diversity can coexist and flourish.
As for the pledge of allegiance, it´s just a fact that the founding Father´s and those who recited the pledge were predominantly if not all, christian. The fact that now many asked to recite the pledge are non believers, does not change the historical fact of the foundations of our country. Is it necessary then to obliterate the pledge of allegiance and therefore history from public spheres?....Like I said, to me it seems ridiculous to have such a dire need to wipe out national history. Why not rather, continue with the pledge of allegiance to our nation, and let non believers and or anti history people, have their democratic right to their moment of silence.

Jodi - posted on 09/04/2013

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@ Margaret....precisely how is the concept of God a form of religious freedom? You are assuming everyone believes in him. Shoving your religion down people's throats is not religious freedom. That's just rude, actually. Allowing people to practice their OWN religion is religious freedom. If you want your kids to worship God, take them to church. It doesn't have a place in public schools where every child has the right to an unbiased education and the right to practice whatever religion they choose without being offended. Duh.

Margaret Chiara - posted on 09/02/2013

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well....actually our country was entirely founded upon religious principals and the concept of God...AND THAT PRECISELY IS WHY WE HAVE RELIGIOUS FREEDOM!...duh.

Kristi - posted on 08/31/2013

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I thought you crawled back under your rock America. You've apparently been living there for quite some time as this issue is not new and neither is your rhetoric and desire to stir up trouble. I don't know why you selected "America" as part of your screen name because you bitch about our country more than anybody I "know." I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you dislike how things are in this country so much, you can leave or if you think you're smart enough, you can run for office and start making changes instead of sitting on your ass bitching about laundry soap and toilet paper and how bad you have it every chance you get.

[deleted account]

Saying the Pledge of Allegiance does not teach children anything about the soldiers who fight for our freedom. War and soldiers are not even mentioned in the Pledge. It MIGHT teach them something about patriotism and the principles on which our country was founded (an "indivisible" republic).

Schools are not prohibiting anyone from saying the pledge of allegiance, they are just no longer forcing those who don't want to say it, to say it. Not forcing others to say something they don't believe in does not "step on your right to believe" because you are still free to say the pledge of allegiance every morning if you wish to--you can say it to your flag at home as a family, your child can say it in the classroom before school starts, etc.
If someone doesn't believe, forcing them to say something they do not believe in DOES step on their right not to believe. No one is forcing you to say you do not believe in God, but you are trying to force those who don't believe in God to say that they do.

America3437 - posted on 08/29/2013

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I believe this is a violation of our right as Americans and the freedom of speech! What is offensive is the world is changing to suit the "non believers" and forget about those that believe. This country was founded on a religious basis and it is sad to see it fading away! The purpose of it is to teach patriotism and the respect for our soldiers who have died defending the freedoms that are now being pulled from us! It is okay to say the moment is for prayer but not okay to include the word "god" ! If you don't believe then fine but why should it be okay for you to step on my right to believe!
It is a disgrace to all that have fought to defend this country and the security blanket of freedom that your family sleeps under. If you don't want to embrace that freedom then you my friends are living in the wrong country!

[deleted account]

My kid's school still says the pledge and sings the national anthem every morning, and we also have the "moment of silence." That said, in our school it is not billed as a moment "for those who would like to pray." Here it is billed as "a moment for students to silently meditate, contemplate, or pray." I suppose that could come down to simply a difference in semantics, but to some it's a big deal. The moment of silence is supposed to give the kids a moment to order their thoughts and prepare themselves for the day ahead.

While we do still say the pledge and sing the anthem in our school, I can honestly say I never understood why we have our children say it. I can understand TEACHING it to them as part of the history or social studies curriculum, but elementary and middle school aged children are too young to be pledging their allegiance to anyone or anything. Perhaps I'm ill informed, but I would think this is something for adults to do, not children.

Firebird - posted on 08/27/2013

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Well... there's no reason why non-christians should have to include the word 'god' when they say the Pledge, however, it would likely offend christians even more if the school simply omitted that word entirely, so the best solution they could come up with was to allow all students a quiet moment to pray to their personal god. The world is changing and there must be room for compromise.

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