anti vaccines!!

Amber - posted on 03/11/2009 ( 172 moms have responded )

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just looking for a good conversation and thought this was a good subject....i stopped vaccinating my son when he was a year old, and it started out because our medicaid expired and we were waiting for my husbands insurance to kick in....he got so behind i just decided to stop doing them for fear of doing too many at one time. He is healthier in his 2nd year of life than he was in the first year.....

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Sarah - posted on 03/12/2009

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I was not vaccinated as a child and my children will not be either.  I agree with Susie that you just have to sign a waiver for things like daycare and school.  The government can not force you to inject diseases into your child. 



Hemechick do you work in a hospital in the US?  Most strains of meseals have been erradicated in this country and the cases that are still out there are usually cured unless there are other circumstances. I would be very interested to hear if there is a highly deadly strain actually out there.  My husbad and I have had pox and whopping cough and survived it just fine.  What we do not have is autism.  Several european medical journals have published that there is indeed a link between the vaccinations and autism and there are quite a few studies in progress here in the US.  I personally know a family that allowed their perfectly normal 4 year old to recieve several shots in a single day and within 3 hours was air lifted to the hospital in a coma.  When he came out of the coma a week later he was exhibiting signs of autism and had to relearn most motor skills.  He is severally autistic now and the family has to deal with the guilt of doing that to their child.



 Having said that there are two things that I would vaccinate for: Small pox and polio.  Both of these have been erradicated in the US, however if they returned I would get my kids the shot.  Both of these diseases are very deadly and/or cause lasting damage to the body, and the risk of the sickness far outweighs the potential harmful side effects of the vaccine.  Most things that children are vaccinated for are not deadly assuming that your child is reasonably healthy and that you are an observant enough parent to notice if your child is sick so that they can get proper care. 



Neither of my children have ever gotten a shot and we have never had colic, ear infections, or any of the other things that most people have come to accept as "normal" for babies.  Our bodies are able to fight diseases that we are exposed to in several ways.  Injecting it straight into the bloodstream bypasses several of those defenses and "shocks" the immune system causing many adverse reactions. 



I would strongly suggest to mothers that they carefully read about what their child is recieving before they simply just let the doctor do something.  My father is a doctor and would be the first to tell you that just being a doctor does not make them right.  I would also recommend purchasing a PDR (physicians desk reference).  This book is a list of all of the current dugs and vaccines approved by the FDA.  It lists what the drug contains (like mercury for example) as well as the possible side effects.  It is not a very expensive investment and at the very least allows you to be informed.  You are responsible for your child and their well being.  Please do not depend on doctors to take care of your children for you.   



 

Jen - posted on 03/23/2009

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And I think it is very naive of people to trust the government as much as they do. Vaccines HAVE been linked to not only autism, but athsma, ADD/ADHD, and other issues. DO YOU THINK THE GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO ADMIT THEY WERE WRONG? I would rather take my kid to a pox party than give him a shot with mercury in it. Go to the autismyesterday site and then once you have seen what other people have gone through, then make a decision. Whatever you decide is YOUR decision, but make sure you know all angles of it, ya know?

[deleted account]

As long as you make an educated choice, make any choice you want. I have also not vaccinated my child and this is after ample research and seeing a doctor who told me what my options were with either choice and I am not talking one of those scary vaccinate or else doctors. he was truthful and honest and promised to help me either way.



You can get your child into a school without vaccinations. All the schools really require is for you to give a letter stating that it is your choice and you accept full responsibility. Schools cannot refuse you on the basis of not having had vaccinations as it is not a legal requirement to do so yet and to refuse you would be discriminating.



Like you Amber, I have done my research and although the idea of vaccinations and I have made an educated choice rather than to accept blindly what I have been told. I have looked at both cases very long and very hard and my choice is the best one for us. I could go on and on about the reasons and such, but I really do suggest that all mothers do their own research. Whatever choice you make in the end, at least you have done it in knowledge.

[deleted account]

Let me just re-iterate what several moms have said before.  There is no evidence that vaccines cause autism.  Additionally, thimerosal, the preservative that contains mercury that caused a lot of concern, has been eliminated in all vaccines given to children aside from flu vaccines since 2001, according to the CDC. 



We all need to keep in mind that, while autism itself is not new, its diagnosis *is*.  The disorder was not named until 1943, and the criteria for diagnosing autism has changed drastically over the past 66 years that it has been recognized as an illness.  Autism and its related disorders (including Aspberger's) are diagnosed using a checklist rather than a specific test that comes out positive or negative, and since the criteria changes, so does the amount of people who fall into the category of having autism. The expanding and changing definitions of these disorders accounts for a large portion of what has begun to seem like an epidemic.  Should we be concerned?  Certainly.  But we should stop thinking that these cases weren't there before, because they were.  Even as short a time ago as 20 years, people who now would be diagnosed as autistic were diagnosed as having something other than autism, as its diagnosis did not include criteria that fit symptoms; and 70 years ago, no one was diagnosed with autism, because it did not exist as a named disorder.



In addition, as one mom has already mentioned, one of the main reasons that some vaccines are linked with autism is that they are given right around the time that autism can be diagnosed, around 18 months.  While there may be earlier warning signs, it is not until 18 months that a diagnosis can be firmly set, and the vaccination schedule for children stipulates that the MMR vaccine be given to children between 12 and 15 months-right around the time that children present with autism.



While much of the information in my post comes from the CDC's Autism Information Center (which you can and should peruse at : http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/), some of it comes from personal experience.  I have an 11 year-old nephew with Aspberger's syndrome, and my mother has a master's degree in special education and taught classes for developmentally disabled children for 30 years.  She and I have had extensive conversations about the changing criteria for diagnosing autism and the disorders related to it, and I have done extensive research on it, looking through the information available from the CDC, its related affiliates, and the few medical studies that have been conducted on the issue.  All of the information I've seen serves to convince me that there is not a causal link between autism and vaccines.

Rebecca - posted on 03/13/2009

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I took my daughter to her 2 and 4 month sots before I decided to stop and research what I want to do for my daughter. I wasnt comfortable with the emotional blackmail the doctor was giving me. She made me feel as if I was a horrible mother because I dared to question her vaccines. How am I supposed to know they are right if the doctors wont even talk to me about it??? I went to other accreditted source to get my information. I read about the different vaccines, there effectiveness, and potential side effects. A lot of the research I found says that you shouldnt vaccinate before the age of 2. Children need time to have there immune systems develop before bombarding them with ither things. Some of the things that make up certian vaccines are not good for a person but not unapproved by the fda. I am not against vaccinating kids but I also know thst there are some vaccines my daughter will never get. I think that we have been indoctrinated that vaccines are they only way to keep our kids safe that we daont even check to make sure. Would you give you kids medications for serious diseases without even checking the different treatments/side effects? Its the same thing by making an informed decision about vaccinations.

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Beth - posted on 07/14/2010

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All of the unvaccinated are 'irresponsible.' All of those who vaccinate as they are told are 'informed and responsible."
Why is it that those who choose (and thank God we still have a choice) are calm, well thought out and tolerant? Those who feel strongly about their need to vaccinate, are very angry and incredulous at those who decide not to. Those that are fully vaccinated cannot point fingers. Your children are your children; care for them as you believe. What mother would purposely injure their child? That's why we do the research. NOT from the FDA or the pharmaceutical corps; too many conflict of interests.
Do we love our children? Would we throw OURSELVES in front of a speeding truck for them? You betcha! Please. let's respect each other's choices and learn from each other. We are all in this mothering thing together. Bless you all!

Twyla - posted on 03/23/2009

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I've never heard of the autism thing, but I'm not American, so we may have slightly different vaccinations up here in the great white north.

Twyla - posted on 03/23/2009

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If every baby in the country is given their vaccines, then your un-vaccinated son is perfectly safe as no one can catch the diseases but him and he'd have no one to catch it from. Unfortunately, there are a lot of mothers nowadays who are taking that exact attitude and not getting their kids vaccinated. An outbreak of polio or something similar can actually happen and children who aren't vaccinated are the ones at risk.

Personally, I hate vaccinations. I feel like a monster holding my baby down so someone can hurt him in order to protect him from a disease he will likely never come in contact with. But trust me, it is better safe than sorry!

Jen - posted on 03/23/2009

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I actually have been doing a lot of research about vaccines and autism, and ADD/HD, just because my 2 year old seems to have some delays and I refuse to get him the MMR shot. My second son is 3 months old and I am not vaccinating until he is older. If you go to autismyesterday.com, it shows you an alternative vaccine schedule, thats what I am doing.

Brandi - posted on 03/23/2009

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I just thought that I would mention --- has anyone that does not vaccinate, or vaccinates for everything but pox considered that while an individual is only supposed to be able to get chicken pox once, the next time that the virus attacks the body it becomes shingles? Shingles is a much more serious problem in that at every point on your body that you had a pox spot you can now get a shingle. Shingles cause nerve damage and I have a friend who now has no feeling in the tips of 3 of her fingers because of it. So, while I do hope that my children get chicken pox while they are still children so that it is not as likely to be life threatening, I do vaccinate them so that when they do get it it won't be as severe so that on the off chance they get shingles later in life, again it will not be as life-threatening/severe/damaging. Also, if you get the chicken pox vaccine, never get chicken pox, but later in life get shingles, the only shingle that you will have on your entire body is one at the injection site of the vaccine.

Brittany - posted on 03/23/2009

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I have a 2 1/2 year old Autistic son who wasnt the same after his 18 month shot. i know that doctors and people in the medical community are saying that there is no proof that the shots cause Autism but I have living proof and his name is Aidan. I agree that it's completely the individual parents decision to not vaccinate their child. I personally wont do it again.

Nicole - posted on 03/23/2009

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I was a little hesitant at first when my son was born about giving him the vaccines, but in the end I decided that the benefits out weigh the risks. There is no conclusive evidence that autism is caused by vaccines. I also think that if we stop vaccinating our children that we might be inviting these diseases back into our everday fears.

Amber - posted on 03/23/2009

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jennifer,



homeopathic medicine is the best way to go...the only need for anti-biotics or things like tylenol or motrin, are bacterial infections that last more than 3 or 4 days or high high fever which needs to be reduced to prevent brain damage....thanks for you input and i really like the way you approached the subject compared to most people who just want to criticize me and put me down for the decision i made, that i feel is protecting my child....

Jennifer - posted on 03/23/2009

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Amber,

I can very much see your point on everything, and to be honest, I do vaccinate but do not fill my daughter up with drugs every time she gets sick. Having a cold or ear infection she does "fight off" on her own. The course of treating these colds and such things are done in a homeopathic way, mainly because it is what works best and fastest! I see all the little one's that are around us fighting off Bronchitis and it takes them six months to a year and my daughter had bronchitis when she was younger and it only took 1 month total to recover from this! I guess what I am saying is there are a lot of benefits from ensuring that your child builds up a strong immunity with out drugs!

Kate CP - posted on 03/22/2009

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Honestly, I'm more worried about the stuff that kids are constantly eating and drinking than the vaccines. Some of the stuff they put in "food" and I use the term loosely is just scary. :/

Gelaine - posted on 03/22/2009

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Remember that most diseases that we are talking about were already on the decline by the time that vaccinations were introduced. There are still cases out there, but the chances of getting killed by measles, is slim.

Stephanie - posted on 03/22/2009

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Quoting Diana:



Quoting Gelaine:




Quoting Brittni:





I love how so many people still think shots cause autism... first of all you can't say shots "cause" anything because they haven't done any experiements on shots only observations.. why because experiements would be unethical... My daughter is going to have her 2 month check up and I def plan to give her all of her shots.... I have 3 cousins that are brothers in the same family... my aunt and uncle decided not to give shots to the first 2 boys because all of the "scares" and such and guess what... they both have autism and the younger one which they did vacinate doesn't... hmmmm interesting huh seeing that some of you still believe shots cause autism













Well.  If these children that have autism, live in the same area as you do, Utah, Oregon, etc, then no, the vaccines did not cause the autism, but the high amounts of mercury in the area did instead. 








If you will look at some studies, the only children with autism have been vaccinates, UNLESS YOU ARE IN AN AREA OF HIGH MERCURY, which both UTAH and OREGON are.









This is untrue, at least according to anything and everything I've seen on the subject that is reliable.  Having already posted a longer version of this, I'll shorten it: Thimerosol (the mercury containing preservative in question) hasn't been present in any vaccine given to children, aside from the flu vaccine, since 2001.  (Found at http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concern...).






We do not know what causes autism.  It has only been a named disorder since 1943, is diagnosed using a checklist rather than a postive/negative test (there is no medical test), and the criteria has changed since its recognition as a disorder 66 years ago.  The influx of autistic children may not be as large as we think-children are now diagnosed as autistic that were not diagnosed that way 10 or 15 years ago because they did not fit the criteria, much less 70 years ago, when the disorder was unnamed.  Additionally, the signs of autism can be behaviorally diagnosed only beginning at 18 months-right in the middle of a child's vaccination schedule.






In a 1999 study, it was concluded that: "By age two, vaccination coverage (the number of children who received vaccines) among children with ASD [the spectrum of disorders that includes autism] was nearly the same as vaccination coverage for children the same age who did not have ASD throughout the region.  If the MMR vaccine and ASD autism were linked, then a greater number of children who had been vaccinated throughout the region would have ASD." (http://www.nichd.nih.gov/publications/pu...).






None of the studies that link vaccines to autism have presented any scientific evidence that there is a link (http://www.nichd.nih.gov/publications/pu...).  In order to entertain the idea that there is a link, I want to know what studies you're talking about in your post, and I want to know that they're actual, scientific studies, not just someone's observations, because I've seen absolutely nothing from any agency or study that confirms the idea that every single child who is autistic has been vaccinated, and certainly no conclusive and convincing evidence that vaccines causes autism.





Just a quick note...and I have not read everything posted, however your comment about autism developing around age two, the time of the last MMR shot gave me something to say. The link between autism and MMR came about as parents in the united states started to notice more children where developing autism shortly after the MMR vaccine was introduced. However when the MMR vaccine was introduced in the UK the amount of children with autism did not rise. To me if there was a link between the MMR vaccine and autism this should have happened, as it is the same vaccine. It is very easy to pick something that happens within the same time frame that can have side effects that can mirror autism and place the blame on that, however those side effects are extremely rare (less that 1 per million). It is also very easy to be anti-vaccines when our generation has not seen the damage of what not vaccinating can do. These diseases are very contagious, very deadly, and still very prominent...for me I would rather have a child that has physical/ learning disabilities than have lost a child I felt I was saving by not vaccinating.

Amber - posted on 03/22/2009

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i see where you're coming from jennifer, but they change the ingridients and preservatives in all the vaccines so often that we really don't know for sure what we're putting in our childrens bodies....and yes as we advance as a society so do diseases, but if they're adapting to our technologically advcanced society, so do our kids who are born into this advanced society are more prone to adapt to these new diseases than us!! children adjust very fast..and like someone else said...we were designed to fight off infections on our own, not with the aid of thimersorol, and synthetic viruses!! we don't need to kick start our immune system...most of the diseases back in the day that they vaccinate for now, were actually benign...you can take it or leave it, but it's true...like i've said before...i did a lot of research and not just on the shots alone, but also the diseases that we vaccinate for....

Jennifer - posted on 03/22/2009

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Boy is this a debate! I personally get my daughter all of her vaccines, but being prior military and a military "Brat" I think short of 3-4 known vaccines I have received everyone known to man and very healthy! - My daughter, has been healthy all of her life and the way I look at it is, this has been done for years, (with the exception of chicken pox vaccine) and we all turned out healthy. As for the chicken Pox vaccine - well, here is how diseases work, they adapt and become stronger as time goes on. As we become a more technologically advanced our "diseases" are becoming more advanced. Just a thought for everyone, do you think that polio is going to stay the same or mutate? Really?



Everyone is entitled to their beliefs but also remember the Flu is getting so strong now that it is killing our children, the Chicken Pox also, what we "made" though 20 years ago is not the same one our children get.



Just figured I would point out that as we advance as a society so do our diseases!

Hollie - posted on 03/22/2009

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I have a 3 year old son and i am no longer vaccinating him. He has speech up until one year old and he got the mmr shot and he went mute for 1 1/2 years. i just now got him talking only one worders no sentences and they thought he may have autism (i got it ruled out tho) but now he has a speech delay because of that stupid shot. I am totally against vaccinating and YOU CAN PUT YOUR CHILDREN IN SCHOOL OR DAYCARE W/ OUT THEM HAVING VACCINATIONS!!!! they just require you to sign a sheet saying that you chose not to vaccinate. i did it for daycare and preschool

Eron - posted on 03/22/2009

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The saddest thing is that these vaccines have virtually wiped out some very deadly childhood diseases,  and only because the majority of parents choose to vaccinate. Has anyone noticed that as more parents decline vaccinations these illnesses increase? I personally believe that vaccinating is best for the child.  If i can do anything to reduce the risks to my childrens health then i will do it - these vaccines have been around long enough for us to know that they work.  x

Amber - posted on 03/22/2009

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Quoting Shannon:



I kinda think that u could be doing harm to ur son...there is a reason y docors want our children to be vaccinated. If u change ur mind, im sure they wont give ur son a bunch of shots at one time. I think there is a time limit on most of the shots. Meaning, some shots u cant have past 8 months..just an example. Some he might have to miss. But there is still time to get him back on track if u are interested. He need his shots in order to go to school anyway. Just a suggestion...please dont take offense.






Shannon






i've done lots of research, and him being behind was not my only concern...the ingridients in those vaccines are disgusting!! i'm not only concerned about thimersorol, but everything else too....and he does not have to be vaccinated for school...every state has exemption forms...they just don't make them easy to get, but i already have mine...it's against the law for a public school to turn a child away(at least in georgia it is) because they aren't vaccinated



 

Shannon - posted on 03/22/2009

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I kinda think that u could be doing harm to ur son...there is a reason y docors want our children to be vaccinated. If u change ur mind, im sure they wont give ur son a bunch of shots at one time. I think there is a time limit on most of the shots. Meaning, some shots u cant have past 8 months..just an example. Some he might have to miss. But there is still time to get him back on track if u are interested. He need his shots in order to go to school anyway. Just a suggestion...please dont take offense.



Shannon

Ashley - posted on 03/22/2009

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i am also strongly against vaccines. i believe that our bodies were designed PERFECTLY by God. i am letting my daughter immune system develop naturally, with the help of breast feeding. i think that vaccines are strictly a way for the government to make money, hence all the cover ups to just how unnecessary they really are.



GREAT information... Vaccines: The Risks, the Benefits the choices by Dr. Sherry Tenpenny. long but definitely worth it.

[deleted account]

Quoting Jamie: you can claim religious or philisophical rights.  Any public health department has forms that you can fill out.  Some states aren't even requiring them at all now.


I read Dr. Sears book "The Vaccine Book" and it has so much great info on everything from whats in these vaccines to what the risks are for not getting the vaccine to legitimate concerns and it's a great nonbiased read.  Most Vaccine books are anti where is this is really an educational tool for parents who are looking for possibly an alternate vaccine schedule.  My husband and I decided that we are going to take the vaccines very slow and only get a few of them, our bodies are designed to fight off these diseases like chickenpox I'd rather my child be able to conquer it on her own.  We all did!  Anyway there is some great info and a more non biased approach on this website




Quoting Amber:

oh i take no offense...to each her own, but i didn't just blindly decide to not do it, the 6 months that he didn't have insurance was ample time for me to do lots of research....and based on my research i decided agains it. i didn't stop the vaccines completely...i vaccinate him against hepatitis and tetanus, those things are not treatable but things like the flu and chicken pox i believe strengthen your childs immune system if they get it rather than depending on a synthetic form of the virus that makes their body dependent on some form of medication to fight off infection. like i said i don't shun anyone who does vaccinate their child....i just think the risks outweigh the benefits...from the time he was born until one he had lots of respiratory infections and ear infections and shortly after i stopped vaccinating him, it all stopped. he has not had an ear infection since a year old and he's two and a half now. and he had a cold once in the past year and i think not vaccinating him may play a part in that....






how do you plan to get your child into school without vaccines?  Chicken POx is a required vaccine as is MMR, Polio and dtap.  My daughter hasn't missed any of her vaccines and she's lead a pretty healthy life.  She did have her share of illnesses her first year but the moment I removed her from the unhealthy living and removed her from cigarette smoke exposure and made healthier decisions as to what she ate and small changes like that shes rarely gotten sick.






 






I do agree about the flu shots and others like that.  I never got her a flu vaccine and even though I am a nurse, I don't recommend any vaccines to a parent that I wouldnt give to my own child.  I dont even ask parents about the HPV shots anymore because I dont think I should promote the shot.  In my eyes it just gives little girls another reason to have premarital sex... and unsafe sex while they're at it.





 

Shannon - posted on 03/22/2009

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Amber - I vaccinate, you don't. Fine.



I just want to say that if your lil one doesn't get chicken pox by the time he's 18 you will want to get him vaccinated for it. If he gets chicken pox as an adult it can be deadly.



The only reason I argue for that vaccine now is that most of the other kids are vaccinated for it so it severely lowers his chance of getting it as a kid.



Wishing you and yours good health.

Amber - posted on 03/22/2009

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so like i said before...even if she doesn't offer it, the parents aren't stupid and they know that it is available...i can't blame her for not offering the HPV vaccine...so many people have died from the side effects of that shot...

Kirra - posted on 03/22/2009

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Quoting Amber:



Quoting Kirra:




 I am a nurse, I don't recommend any vaccines to a parent that I wouldnt give to my own child.  I dont even ask parents about the HPV shots anymore because I dont think I should promote the shot.  In my eyes it just gives little girls another reason to have premarital sex... and unsafe sex while they're at it.








as a nurse it is your duty to offer these vaccines!!! it is then the parents decision as to whether they do or do not get this vaccine. You do not have the right to deny them of this choice it's ppl like you whome make mothers confused about what is or is not available.








 






she never said she didn't OFFER the vaccines....she said she doesn't RECOMMEND them...and parents know vaccines are available...all they have to do is tell the nurse they want them....thank you!!






 






 









 





Amber maybe you should read the quote in full here i'll post it for you again:



 I am a nurse, I don't recommend any vaccines to a parent that I wouldnt give to my own child.  I dont even ask parents about the HPV shots anymore because I dont think I should promote the shot.  In my eyes it just gives little girls another reason to have premarital sex... and unsafe sex while they're at it.


please note, the second sentence reads "I DONT EVEN ASK PARENTS ABOUT THE HPV SHOTS ANYMORE". This means she doesnt offer it to the parents.
So THANKYOU!!!!

Kirra - posted on 03/22/2009

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Quoting Jamie:



Quoting Kirra:




 I am a nurse, I don't recommend any vaccines to a parent that I wouldnt give to my own child.  I dont even ask parents about the HPV shots anymore because I dont think I should promote the shot.  In my eyes it just gives little girls another reason to have premarital sex... and unsafe sex while they're at it.








as a nurse it is your duty to offer these vaccines!!! it is then the parents decision as to whether they do or do not get this vaccine. You do not have the right to deny them of this choice it's ppl like you whome make mothers confused about what is or is not available.








 








 









 No, it is parents like YOU whom make uneducated decisions and then blame the CDC and doctors when your child comes down with Autism or whatever other "disease" you parents blame on vaccines.  I do NOT have to tell a parent about HPV vaccines when it is posted clearly for all patients to read right on the wall.  Our patients are told about the vaccines and I give them the information but I DO NOT by any means WHAT-SO-EVER have to sit down with the parents and talk them into getting therefore I DONT.  Not to mention, I'm pretty sick of parents LIKE YOU who blame the nurses for their children ending up with cervical cancer anyway because believe me IT HAS HAPPENED.  Just because I offered your child the shot doesn;t mean I forced her to engage in intercourse nor did I make her prone to the HPV strains.  It is YOUR JOB as a PARENT to educate yourself and your children about these things.  Based on half of the responses on this board, you parents seem to know more about the vaccines then the doctors anyway- right??  You've all done your research so why don't you know what is available to you?  Let me guess, you can't read because you had a flu shot when you were a child??  Maybe you're suffering from some mind altering disease due to all those vaccines that you got as a child or didn't get as a child because of negligent nurses such as myself!





wow!!!!!



U really feel strongly about this!!!



U dont even know my opinion on this topic other than i feel it is ur duty to offer it!



I never said u should recommend it or force parents to get it!!!



My 1st reply to ur thread i simply said u need to offer it!! There's a big difference between offering something and recommending it.



You seem like you are a very judgemental person, saying parents like me need to educate themselves before making a decision. I am educated and it is a decision to give or not to give vacinations, it is my decision as a parent i am not one that would then blame the medical system if my child had a reaction.



In your last sentence you say "because of negligent nurses such as myself!"



sounds like you are admitting that you r neglegent by not offering this vaccine !!!!!!

Ashley - posted on 03/20/2009

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another thing all 9 of my nieces and nephews have been vaccinated and all of them are very healthy and happy. and also my sons pediatrician always asks about his development and she says that he is doing great and the reason she asks is because if he has trouble making eye contact and focusing on you then he could be at risk for autism.

Ashley - posted on 03/20/2009

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Quoting Cassie:

I stopped vaccinating my son at 1 year old as well. The ingrediants that are in the vaccines are horrible. And they have proven a link with vaccinces and autism. A little girl hannah polling's family won a huge law suit b/c she got autism from her vaccines. Mercury isn't in vaccines anymore, now they put alluminum in them. It is not known how much alluminum is safe for our bodies to have. When alluminum is given through the shot it is deposited in to our tissue and will be there forever. Alluminum is said to cause alzheimers and cancers. It says on the FDA website that they don't know how much alluminum is safe for babies to have. I know I would not inject my son with something they know so little about. It is true that vaccines save lives, but alot of those ilnesses are not around anymore. I think the parent should have the right to choose to vaccinate or not, and when it comes down to it we have to go with our instincts with what is safest for our children.


i have to disagree with you. i talked to my son's pediatrician at his last appointment about vaccines and autism and she said there is absolutely no link, just like there is no link between vaccines and SIDS. that child was just bound to be autistic or die of sids. i would rather have my child have a mild reaction to the vaccine or be autistic then having my child die from a disease that i could've prevented if i would've gotten him vaccinated. that's just my opinion, if people don't want to vaccinate that's their business, just don't be surprised if that child gets an illness.

Grace - posted on 03/20/2009

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My daughter was vaccined for her first set of shots and the stupid PKU test. After all that happened, she was sick for almost a month. She had been healthy until that day. Then I swore to never give her another shot again. She has only been sick about 4 times since those sets of shots/tests, and is almost 18 months old now. I use homeopathic versions of the vaccines and they have put me at ease.

Anna - posted on 03/20/2009

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I would not try to discourage you because you choose not to vacinate. My son had an awful reaction to vaccination. When he was 6 months old I took him to get his shots and they gave him a series of vacinations. A few days later I had to rush him to the ER because his fontalle was buldging. After that incident he recovered but my faith in vaccines is now diminished.

Anna - posted on 03/20/2009

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I would not try to discourage you because you choose not to vacinate. My son had an awful reaction to vaccination. When he was 6 months old I took him to get his shots and they gave him a series of vacinations. A few days later I had to rush him to the ER because his fontalle was buldging. After that incident he recovered but my faith in vaccines is now diminished.

Francine - posted on 03/20/2009

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Here in Australia there has been an outbreak of whooping cough, 2 babies have died in Perth (WA) alone, who knows how many more over east. Im glad i've immunised my babies, i dont want them to die too, i love them too much, a little jab isnt much, and personally you cant put a price on health and safety (my opinion only)

Sarah - posted on 03/20/2009

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Hi Amber - I agree with you 100%.  I stopped giving my daughter vaccines when she was 6 and started seeing a Corrective Care Chiropractor. SHe has not been sick since and she is still able to go to school.  Medical attention is a personal belief and choice.  All you have to do is tell the school that this is your religious belief and they CANNOT turn your child away - That is illegal.  No one can make you treat your child for something you do not believe in!  Great topic BTW!!

[deleted account]

Quoting Gelaine:



Quoting Diana:




Quoting Gelaine:





Quoting Brittni:






I love how so many people still think shots cause autism... first of all you can't say shots "cause" anything because they haven't done any experiements on shots only observations.. why because experiements would be unethical... My daughter is going to have her 2 month check up and I def plan to give her all of her shots.... I have 3 cousins that are brothers in the same family... my aunt and uncle decided not to give shots to the first 2 boys because all of the "scares" and such and guess what... they both have autism and the younger one which they did vacinate doesn't... hmmmm interesting huh seeing that some of you still believe shots cause autism
















Well.  If these children that have autism, live in the same area as you do, Utah, Oregon, etc, then no, the vaccines did not cause the autism, but the high amounts of mercury in the area did instead. 










If you will look at some studies, the only children with autism have been vaccinates, UNLESS YOU ARE IN AN AREA OF HIGH MERCURY, which both UTAH and OREGON are.












This is untrue, at least according to anything and everything I've seen on the subject that is reliable.  Having already posted a longer version of this, I'll shorten it: Thimerosol (the mercury containing preservative in question) hasn't been present in any vaccine given to children, aside from the flu vaccine, since 2001.  (Found at http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concern...).








We do not know what causes autism.  It has only been a named disorder since 1943, is diagnosed using a checklist rather than a postive/negative test (there is no medical test), and the criteria has changed since its recognition as a disorder 66 years ago.  The influx of autistic children may not be as large as we think-children are now diagnosed as autistic that were not diagnosed that way 10 or 15 years ago because they did not fit the criteria, much less 70 years ago, when the disorder was unnamed.  Additionally, the signs of autism can be behaviorally diagnosed only beginning at 18 months-right in the middle of a child's vaccination schedule.








In a 1999 study, it was concluded that: "By age two, vaccination coverage (the number of children who received vaccines) among children with ASD [the spectrum of disorders that includes autism] was nearly the same as vaccination coverage for children the same age who did not have ASD throughout the region.  If the MMR vaccine and ASD autism were linked, then a greater number of children who had been vaccinated throughout the region would have ASD." (http://www.nichd.nih.gov/publications/pu...).








None of the studies that link vaccines to autism have presented any scientific evidence that there is a link (http://www.nichd.nih.gov/publications/pu...).  In order to entertain the idea that there is a link, I want to know what studies you're talking about in your post, and I want to know that they're actual, scientific studies, not just someone's observations, because I've seen absolutely nothing from any agency or study that confirms the idea that every single child who is autistic has been vaccinated, and certainly no conclusive and convincing evidence that vaccines causes autism.










Well if you would read my previous posts, I know these things, as I have done extensive research.. I know that they do not know what causes autism, and that they cannot prove what does or does not cause autism, until they learn more about autism.  Autism is such a wide perspective of things.  If you look at the studies that say that there is no link, they are as inconclusive as the ones that say that autism and vaccinations have  a link.  I am not saying that vaccinations cause them, I am just saying that there is a very high correlation rate to those that receive vaccinations to those that have autism compared to those who have not had vaccinations and do not have autism. 






I also will not say that unvaccinated children cannot get autism, because I know that this is not true. I know what the CDC says about what vaccinations contain.  There are way too many chemicals to put in an adult, let alone a small child.  Not just mercury but aluminum for one plus many others.






Also your link talks about children with autism younger than age 2. Most children aren't diagnosed with autism until they are at least 2 years old, so that 1999 study doesn't say much.  The autism hits them after the MMR, but they are not diagnosed til later.  Also I never said that all kids that are vaccinated are going to get autism.  I just said that there is a higher correlation.  Just because only a certain amount get autism after vaccinations doesn't mean that there is no link. 






Also, if you research autism, which I have also done, most autistic children have HIGH AMOUNTS OF MERCURY in thier system.. So this shows that mercury does have something to do with it.  Once the mercury is removed, the child progresses much better.   I will try and find that study again where the mercury was high, and therefore more children had autism, just so that you will believe me.






I am also going to the vaccination awareness event tomorrow, and I will probably come back with a whole more bit of info as there will be people there who have done break through research about vaccinations..  I will let you know what I learn. :)





I've also done extensive research on this, as my brother married a girl several years ago who has a son with Aspberger's, and I now how a nephew with one of the ASDs.  What I'm talking about is our statement that, "If you will look at some studies, the only children with autism have been vaccinates, UNLESS YOU ARE IN AN AREA OF HIGH MERCURY, which both UTAH and OREGON are."  That implies that only children who have been vaccinated (outside of Utah and Oregon) are autistic-which is untrue.  If that's not what you meant to say then apologize for interpreting it that way, but that's what your statement implies. 



Autism can begin to be diagnosed at 18 months, but is often not diagnosed until much later-occassionally not until the child is 3 or 4 years old. 



The fact that children with autism sometimes have mercury in their system does not, in itself, tell us that mercury causes autism.  It could be a result of the disorder, or in could be a correlative rather than a causitive.  We just don't know yet.  But we do know that mercury is no longer present in vaccines given to small children other than flu vaccines, so there's no reason to keep decrying other vaccines because of mercury content-there isn't one.



I did read your previous posts-I've read through all the posts on this thread.  If you'd read my previous posts, you would know that I've done extensive research because I have a nephew with Aspberger's, and that my mother has a master's in special education and taught children with developmental disorders for 30 years, so she's seen a lot of the changing definitions that I talk about and the changing classifications of children from one disorder to another.  As the spectrum changes, the amount of people who fall into it does as well.



I just want to know what studies you are looking at, because I haven't seen anything that confirms your thoughts, and I would like to know where you got the information, particularly about Utah and Oregon.  As I said, I've read a lot of information on this, and I try to stay as informed as possible about it.  Many of the original researchers who suggested links between vaccines and autism have retracted their former opinions.  I'm not saying that the research you're talking about isn't out there, but I want to read through it for myself rather than just taking it on faith that it's out there and that it's reliable.

Naomi - posted on 03/20/2009

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Hi Everyone! I'm really thankful for this extremely interesting conversation. People seem pretty polarized on the issue, and have done lots of research on BOTH sides. It's great to hear different opinions (barring all the name calling etc. ) and be able to make up our own minds as parents after considering the whole picture, and all the info available. Having people who feel strongly on both sides is great, we are all better informed for the diversity. Wether or not you decide to vaccinate etc. I think it's clear your decision needs to be made after much THOUGHT and research as well. This is not a cut and dry issue, there are a lot of factors involved and I'd rather anyone learn all they can and then make their decision, instead of blindly following what a doctor or family friend told them was best.

As for me, I'm rather divided.. my baby i due in 3 months so this is a good time to be learning. I grew up with all my shots, (I think.. my mom fought a battle about the hep. B but in the end we got it, but maybe she spaced out some others) and am fine.. but NOT chicken pox, we caught that the old fashioned way from the neighbors, and I personally think, that's just better. also flu shots.. to me.. are rather pointless since they are making a guess as to which way the flu strain will mutate.. some years, they don't even work at all! I'm well aware that the development of vaccines has saved countless lives, I beleive they are something to be thankful for, that we can be protected from serious illnesses like small pox, and polio. But clearly, discernment is required here.

Good friends from church are highly passionate about this issue, as they live daily with a child who has autism.. but they are ALSO passionate about the food she eats, and the environment she is in. I agree with some ladies who mentioned the amount of crap in our environment and food.. if your super worried about what's in vaccines, you should be at least as worried about what is in your kids snacks and shampoos. Although I plan to vaccinate my children, I find it interesting and concerning the large amount of parents WITH autistic kids who are pointing to vaccines. These people live with the effects of this disorder every day.. why are so many of them united on this front? When your child is affected by something.. most parents would sit down and spend hours and hours doing thier research, to find out... what happened, what can I do. I don't think they are ignorant of the research from the CDC etc. or just listening to 'fear mongering' but they are still concerned. This sends red flags up in my head. I am thankful for the women who mentioned her nephews who had shots but still have autism... clearly there is another side. But still... all the 'smoke' concerns me enough to think there might be some 'fire' somewhere.. enough that I will definetly ask to have my vaccines spaced out, and I'll be choosy about which ones to get as well.. what really is necessary, and what is a 'convenience vaccine' like the flu or chicken pox.

That's my thoughts. Again, GREAT discussion, thanks everyone for contributing!

Gelaine - posted on 03/20/2009

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Some links for you to view for those that will not believe what is being said.



http://www.healthdangers.com/drugs/vacci...



This website just tells that the CDC strongly encouraged the pharmaceuticals to remove thimerisol, but it was not required, and that shots with thimerisol (not just the flu) are still being administered.

Gelaine - posted on 03/20/2009

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Quoting Diana:



Quoting Gelaine:




Quoting Brittni:





I love how so many people still think shots cause autism... first of all you can't say shots "cause" anything because they haven't done any experiements on shots only observations.. why because experiements would be unethical... My daughter is going to have her 2 month check up and I def plan to give her all of her shots.... I have 3 cousins that are brothers in the same family... my aunt and uncle decided not to give shots to the first 2 boys because all of the "scares" and such and guess what... they both have autism and the younger one which they did vacinate doesn't... hmmmm interesting huh seeing that some of you still believe shots cause autism













Well.  If these children that have autism, live in the same area as you do, Utah, Oregon, etc, then no, the vaccines did not cause the autism, but the high amounts of mercury in the area did instead. 








If you will look at some studies, the only children with autism have been vaccinates, UNLESS YOU ARE IN AN AREA OF HIGH MERCURY, which both UTAH and OREGON are.









This is untrue, at least according to anything and everything I've seen on the subject that is reliable.  Having already posted a longer version of this, I'll shorten it: Thimerosol (the mercury containing preservative in question) hasn't been present in any vaccine given to children, aside from the flu vaccine, since 2001.  (Found at http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concern...).






We do not know what causes autism.  It has only been a named disorder since 1943, is diagnosed using a checklist rather than a postive/negative test (there is no medical test), and the criteria has changed since its recognition as a disorder 66 years ago.  The influx of autistic children may not be as large as we think-children are now diagnosed as autistic that were not diagnosed that way 10 or 15 years ago because they did not fit the criteria, much less 70 years ago, when the disorder was unnamed.  Additionally, the signs of autism can be behaviorally diagnosed only beginning at 18 months-right in the middle of a child's vaccination schedule.






In a 1999 study, it was concluded that: "By age two, vaccination coverage (the number of children who received vaccines) among children with ASD [the spectrum of disorders that includes autism] was nearly the same as vaccination coverage for children the same age who did not have ASD throughout the region.  If the MMR vaccine and ASD autism were linked, then a greater number of children who had been vaccinated throughout the region would have ASD." (http://www.nichd.nih.gov/publications/pu...).






None of the studies that link vaccines to autism have presented any scientific evidence that there is a link (http://www.nichd.nih.gov/publications/pu...).  In order to entertain the idea that there is a link, I want to know what studies you're talking about in your post, and I want to know that they're actual, scientific studies, not just someone's observations, because I've seen absolutely nothing from any agency or study that confirms the idea that every single child who is autistic has been vaccinated, and certainly no conclusive and convincing evidence that vaccines causes autism.






Well if you would read my previous posts, I know these things, as I have done extensive research.. I know that they do not know what causes autism, and that they cannot prove what does or does not cause autism, until they learn more about autism.  Autism is such a wide perspective of things.  If you look at the studies that say that there is no link, they are as inconclusive as the ones that say that autism and vaccinations have  a link.  I am not saying that vaccinations cause them, I am just saying that there is a very high correlation rate to those that receive vaccinations to those that have autism compared to those who have not had vaccinations and do not have autism. 



I also will not say that unvaccinated children cannot get autism, because I know that this is not true. I know what the CDC says about what vaccinations contain.  There are way too many chemicals to put in an adult, let alone a small child.  Not just mercury but aluminum for one plus many others.



Also your link talks about children with autism younger than age 2. Most children aren't diagnosed with autism until they are at least 2 years old, so that 1999 study doesn't say much.  The autism hits them after the MMR, but they are not diagnosed til later.  Also I never said that all kids that are vaccinated are going to get autism.  I just said that there is a higher correlation.  Just because only a certain amount get autism after vaccinations doesn't mean that there is no link. 



Also, if you research autism, which I have also done, most autistic children have HIGH AMOUNTS OF MERCURY in thier system.. So this shows that mercury does have something to do with it.  Once the mercury is removed, the child progresses much better.   I will try and find that study again where the mercury was high, and therefore more children had autism, just so that you will believe me.



I am also going to the vaccination awareness event tomorrow, and I will probably come back with a whole more bit of info as there will be people there who have done break through research about vaccinations..  I will let you know what I learn. :)

[deleted account]

Quoting Gelaine:



Quoting Brittni:




I love how so many people still think shots cause autism... first of all you can't say shots "cause" anything because they haven't done any experiements on shots only observations.. why because experiements would be unethical... My daughter is going to have her 2 month check up and I def plan to give her all of her shots.... I have 3 cousins that are brothers in the same family... my aunt and uncle decided not to give shots to the first 2 boys because all of the "scares" and such and guess what... they both have autism and the younger one which they did vacinate doesn't... hmmmm interesting huh seeing that some of you still believe shots cause autism










Well.  If these children that have autism, live in the same area as you do, Utah, Oregon, etc, then no, the vaccines did not cause the autism, but the high amounts of mercury in the area did instead. 






If you will look at some studies, the only children with autism have been vaccinates, UNLESS YOU ARE IN AN AREA OF HIGH MERCURY, which both UTAH and OREGON are.





This is untrue, at least according to anything and everything I've seen on the subject that is reliable.  Having already posted a longer version of this, I'll shorten it: Thimerosol (the mercury containing preservative in question) hasn't been present in any vaccine given to children, aside from the flu vaccine, since 2001.  (Found at http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concern...).



We do not know what causes autism.  It has only been a named disorder since 1943, is diagnosed using a checklist rather than a postive/negative test (there is no medical test), and the criteria has changed since its recognition as a disorder 66 years ago.  The influx of autistic children may not be as large as we think-children are now diagnosed as autistic that were not diagnosed that way 10 or 15 years ago because they did not fit the criteria, much less 70 years ago, when the disorder was unnamed.  Additionally, the signs of autism can be behaviorally diagnosed only beginning at 18 months-right in the middle of a child's vaccination schedule.



In a 1999 study, it was concluded that: "By age two, vaccination coverage (the number of children who received vaccines) among children with ASD [the spectrum of disorders that includes autism] was nearly the same as vaccination coverage for children the same age who did not have ASD throughout the region.  If the MMR vaccine and ASD autism were linked, then a greater number of children who had been vaccinated throughout the region would have ASD." (http://www.nichd.nih.gov/publications/pu...).



None of the studies that link vaccines to autism have presented any scientific evidence that there is a link (http://www.nichd.nih.gov/publications/pu...).  In order to entertain the idea that there is a link, I want to know what studies you're talking about in your post, and I want to know that they're actual, scientific studies, not just someone's observations, because I've seen absolutely nothing from any agency or study that confirms the idea that every single child who is autistic has been vaccinated, and certainly no conclusive and convincing evidence that vaccines causes autism.

Brittni - posted on 03/20/2009

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Quoting Gelaine:



Quoting Brittni:




I love how so many people still think shots cause autism... first of all you can't say shots "cause" anything because they haven't done any experiements on shots only observations.. why because experiements would be unethical... My daughter is going to have her 2 month check up and I def plan to give her all of her shots.... I have 3 cousins that are brothers in the same family... my aunt and uncle decided not to give shots to the first 2 boys because all of the "scares" and such and guess what... they both have autism and the younger one which they did vacinate doesn't... hmmmm interesting huh seeing that some of you still believe shots cause autism










Well.  If these children that have autism, live in the same area as you do, Utah, Oregon, etc, then no, the vaccines did not cause the autism, but the high amounts of mercury in the area did instead. 






If you will look at some studies, the only children with autism have been vaccinates, UNLESS YOU ARE IN AN AREA OF HIGH MERCURY, which both UTAH and OREGON are.






I am not from Utah I am from Ohio, which is where they live I am just going to college in Utah... ps your little girl in your display is adorable!

Amber - posted on 03/20/2009

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Quoting Gelaine:

also, the Gardisil vaccination is something i would never recommend to anybody. People have died from this vaccine. It is a relatively new vaccine, and there is not enough known about it. I personally know a girl who received the Gardisil vaccination at 18 years old. Afterwards she had a seizure, she is now pronounce epileptic. She never had a problem until she had gardisil.
Get educated, don't be stupid, and don't put down those that have made an educated decision.



thank you gelaine!! it drives me crazy when people call us selfish and stupid for making an informed decision about the best interest of our children...i would say that's pretty selfless actually!!



 

Amber - posted on 03/20/2009

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Quoting Kirra:



 I am a nurse, I don't recommend any vaccines to a parent that I wouldnt give to my own child.  I dont even ask parents about the HPV shots anymore because I dont think I should promote the shot.  In my eyes it just gives little girls another reason to have premarital sex... and unsafe sex while they're at it.






as a nurse it is your duty to offer these vaccines!!! it is then the parents decision as to whether they do or do not get this vaccine. You do not have the right to deny them of this choice it's ppl like you whome make mothers confused about what is or is not available.






 



she never said she didn't OFFER the vaccines....she said she doesn't RECOMMEND them...and parents know vaccines are available...all they have to do is tell the nurse they want them....thank you!!



 



 





 

Gelaine - posted on 03/20/2009

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also, the Gardisil vaccination is something i would never recommend to anybody. People have died from this vaccine. It is a relatively new vaccine, and there is not enough known about it. I personally know a girl who received the Gardisil vaccination at 18 years old. Afterwards she had a seizure, she is now pronounce epileptic. She never had a problem until she had gardisil.

Get educated, don't be stupid, and don't put down those that have made an educated decision.

Gelaine - posted on 03/20/2009

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Quoting Brittni:



I love how so many people still think shots cause autism... first of all you can't say shots "cause" anything because they haven't done any experiements on shots only observations.. why because experiements would be unethical... My daughter is going to have her 2 month check up and I def plan to give her all of her shots.... I have 3 cousins that are brothers in the same family... my aunt and uncle decided not to give shots to the first 2 boys because all of the "scares" and such and guess what... they both have autism and the younger one which they did vacinate doesn't... hmmmm interesting huh seeing that some of you still believe shots cause autism






Well.  If these children that have autism, live in the same area as you do, Utah, Oregon, etc, then no, the vaccines did not cause the autism, but the high amounts of mercury in the area did instead. 



If you will look at some studies, the only children with autism have been vaccinates, UNLESS YOU ARE IN AN AREA OF HIGH MERCURY, which both UTAH and OREGON are.

Gelaine - posted on 03/20/2009

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Quoting Brittni:



I love how so many people still think shots cause autism... first of all you can't say shots "cause" anything because they haven't done any experiements on shots only observations.. why because experiements would be unethical... My daughter is going to have her 2 month check up and I def plan to give her all of her shots.... I have 3 cousins that are brothers in the same family... my aunt and uncle decided not to give shots to the first 2 boys because all of the "scares" and such and guess what... they both have autism and the younger one which they did vacinate doesn't... hmmmm interesting huh seeing that some of you still believe shots cause autism






Well.  If these children that have autism, live in the same area as you do, Utah, Oregon, etc, then no, the vaccines did not cause the autism, but the high amounts of mercury in the area did instead. 



If you will look at some studies, the only children with autism have been vaccinates, UNLESS YOU ARE IN AN AREA OF HIGH MERCURY, which both UTAH and OREGON are.

User - posted on 03/20/2009

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Quoting Kirra:



 I am a nurse, I don't recommend any vaccines to a parent that I wouldnt give to my own child.  I dont even ask parents about the HPV shots anymore because I dont think I should promote the shot.  In my eyes it just gives little girls another reason to have premarital sex... and unsafe sex while they're at it.






as a nurse it is your duty to offer these vaccines!!! it is then the parents decision as to whether they do or do not get this vaccine. You do not have the right to deny them of this choice it's ppl like you whome make mothers confused about what is or is not available.






 






 





 No, it is parents like YOU whom make uneducated decisions and then blame the CDC and doctors when your child comes down with Autism or whatever other "disease" you parents blame on vaccines.  I do NOT have to tell a parent about HPV vaccines when it is posted clearly for all patients to read right on the wall.  Our patients are told about the vaccines and I give them the information but I DO NOT by any means WHAT-SO-EVER have to sit down with the parents and talk them into getting therefore I DONT.  Not to mention, I'm pretty sick of parents LIKE YOU who blame the nurses for their children ending up with cervical cancer anyway because believe me IT HAS HAPPENED.  Just because I offered your child the shot doesn;t mean I forced her to engage in intercourse nor did I make her prone to the HPV strains.  It is YOUR JOB as a PARENT to educate yourself and your children about these things.  Based on half of the responses on this board, you parents seem to know more about the vaccines then the doctors anyway- right??  You've all done your research so why don't you know what is available to you?  Let me guess, you can't read because you had a flu shot when you were a child??  Maybe you're suffering from some mind altering disease due to all those vaccines that you got as a child or didn't get as a child because of negligent nurses such as myself!

Amber - posted on 03/20/2009

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every state has exemption forms for vaccinations, and public schools cannot turn him away from education(although they say they will) i have alot of friends with children in school and some of them don't vaccinate their children and they go to school and didn't have any problems getting in

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