Circumcision ban?

Sandra - posted on 11/19/2010 ( 1013 moms have responded )

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San Francisco might be proposing a ban a circumcision....

I, personally, absolutely, do not agree with circumcising a child. (My son is not) I also feel that most people with the "it's cleaner" idea, aren't fully educated in the area. That's actually a VERY popular misconception. There is a reason it's not covered be (most) insurance anymore. It's not necessary. It's an elective, cosmetic surgery.

One mother I knew said it best, "Saying preventing UTI's and other infections is why you chose to circumcise your son, is like saying you cut off your pinky to prevent a hangnail. Totally unnecessary."

However, I do think they should make some room for religious reasons... It's a very fine line.... Personally, i don't even agree with religious reasons. You're still cutting off part of a persons body... But exceptions should be made whether we all agree or not...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/13...

Your thoughts?

This conversation has been closed to further comments

1013 Comments

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Krista - posted on 12/17/2010

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Charley, do you really think that, considering the fact that many babies have been permanently disfigured (and some have even died) from this procedure, that your little joke about "chopping penises" was appropriate?

This is serious stuff, here. Babies are being put through a medical procedure, a procedure that carries some very real risks, for really flimsy reasons. You risked your son bleeding to death solely because you wanted him to look like his daddy. I don't see that as being particularly funny, thanks.

Krista - posted on 12/17/2010

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Ah yes, you did. You said, "Obviously Not Krista because it would be because of something devastating that happened not because of a choice that I was asked to make for my son when he was born."

I'm having a bit of a hard time deciphering your answer, so please humour me. Are you saying that if your husband was sans one testicle, that you would NOT have had your newborn's son's testicle removed, because you wouldn't have been given the choice?

If so, then that's still not really an answer. What I want to know is if you think it would be LOGICAL to want to remove the nut of a baby whose father has only one nut. The reason for the missing nut, or whether or not you'd be actually allowed to do this, is irrelevant to my question. Do you think that WANTING to remove that testicle, so that the child looks like daddy, would be a logical sentiment?

Charley - posted on 12/17/2010

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Erin H - how dare u say im not a parent go ahead ant talk ur crap but dont let your bulldog mouth overrun your puppy dog ass im all for circum and everyone of my boys will be done good for you for not wanting to clip ur sons penis good job im proud of you ur such a parent .......the troll

April - posted on 12/17/2010

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Krista-- you aren't going to get your answer. You cannot reason with people who only see in black and white.

Krista - posted on 12/17/2010

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I'm still waiting for my answer from the pro-circ contingent: IF your husband was missing a testicle, would you consider it logical to remove your newborn son's testicle so that his genitals match his fathers?

April - posted on 12/17/2010

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http://aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi...

i am not sure if this was posted before and apologize if this is repetitive. Basically it says that the AAP no longer supports circumcision as a routine medical procedure. They also state that "data are not sufficient enough to recommend neonatal circumcision". The benefits are also labeled as "potential" . If I am going to amputate a part of my future son, should I have another one...I'd want to hear that there are DEFINITE benefits. I'd want SUFFICIENT data. Hence, (and I KNOW this point has been made already here)...there is no STRONG evidence to support circumcision. The AAP issued this policy statement because it would be UNETHICAL to recommend something medically unnecessary.

Johnny - posted on 12/17/2010

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I don't have much to say, at least without repeating things that have been said in the previous 795 posts (that has to be close to a record!)

After reading tonight from post 400 onwards, one thing that really perplexes me is this concept that we own our children's bodies and can do whatever we choose to them. The fact is that generally, we can't . Circumcision and ear piercing are really the only 2 ways in which you can legally alter a child's body without medical reasons, at least in most Western countries.

For example, both my husband and I suffered from severe cases of tonsillitis as children. In our parent's era, the removal of tonsils was routine, regardless of illness. Much like routine infant circumcision. But by the time we were kids, you needed to have medical necessity for the surgery to be done. Theoretically our child may have a greater propensity for tonsillitis in the future, yet we can not demand to have a doctor remove them before she has any sign of illness. Such a procedure would never be approved by a hospital and very few doctors would agree to perform it. Few people would agree that it is a parent's prerogative to have a medical procedure performed on their child simply to avoid a potential future problem, without any medical indications of necessity. Why is RIC so different? Why do moms think they own their kids penis'?

Okay, so I just posted so that I'd get an invite to 'penis-fest' 2011, so sue me!

[deleted account]

To my knowledge every man in my family is circumcised. I know for a fact that my dad and brother are and my husband is, as well. I don't find this a good reason to circumcise. As others have said my son doesn't have to look exactly like my husband or anyone else. By the time my son gets to the locker room age I have a feeling he will be in good (intact) company lol.

Minnie - posted on 12/16/2010

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Yes. I thought that we as parents were supposed to teach our children self-confidence and respect for themselves, their bodies and others. We don't want our girls following after unhealthy media images.

But as parents at birth we cut up our perfect baby boys, having the feeling that a part of them is somehow wrong and ugly, cut it off in an attempt to conform them.

Kimberly - posted on 12/16/2010

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I just don't understand how it is logical to damage a child physically in order to spare their feelings. It would be more logical to teach him to be self assured and confident than to teach him, by example, that cutting yourself is an acceptable way to deal with peer pressure.

Nikkole - posted on 12/16/2010

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I know that one of my bother in laws is circumcised and 2 are not lmao my mother in law told me one day she talks about EVERYTHING! Her oldest son was done but she said he cried so badly and they messed it up that she didn't do any of her other kids! I did my son but i was uninformed and my mother told me i should nad my husband wanted to also if i were to have another son i wouldn't do it! I have NEVER seen an un circ penis excepts my sons and i love my husband the way he is some of his friends know hes not and they do make smart ass remarks and pokes fun at him but i think it looks and works just fine ;) But kids will be cruel not matter what if its not there penis, its the clothes there wearing they way they talk,the way they are looking at each other kids will be kids! AND hey i would go to a PenisFest LMAO

[deleted account]

I have to admit i know that my father is circumcised as i know that my brother is. ONLY reason i know this is because i brought this debate up with my mother and she told me how she doesn't see the need but went with what my father wanted. My father fully agrees with being circumcised (even tried to use the cleanliness debate).

I also know that two of my nephews are circumcised. The other 3 boys aren't. (Husbands sister got her boys done, My brothers son isn't done and neither are his brothers. Different fathers) I also know that Some of my husbands cousins aren't done either. Huh i think if i recall correctly i even know if his uncles are. I also know whether or not my friends boys are done.

But i will clarify that two of my husbands Uncles are younger than him ( and half the girls i know dated them) and his cousins are 4 and 5.

Wow that sounds really bad. But what can i say i Married the only one out of that family who is close to normal! lol

Minnie - posted on 12/16/2010

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I don't know if my Dad is circumcised or not. I never thought to ask, and he definitely never sat down and was like "Lisa, we have to have the talk. The talk, you know, about my penis."

My husband doesn't talk about my brother in-law's penis except to call him 'chode.'

Minnie - posted on 12/16/2010

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You should TOTALLY come down for PenisFest, Krista. Lots of spectator sports. Why would you NOT want to?

*wink wink*

Krista - posted on 12/16/2010

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Nope, I have no idea if my brother is circumcised. Mind you, he's my half-brother, and didn't grow up with me, so I would have only seen his diaper changed a few times, and I have no recollection as to whether he's circumcised or not.

And once again, why would your dad tell you the state of his brother's penises?

I just find that very odd. And obviously I'm not the only one who feels that way, as Lisa also indicated that she finds it odd.

At any rate, the fact remains that "looking like daddy" is an absurd reason to circumcise. A child's penis is going to look different from an adult's penis regardless of the state of its foreskin. And, like I said to Charley, if the adult was missing a testicle, would it be logical to remove the child's testicle so that daddy and son have matching genitals?

I guess I'd like an answer to that one from the pro-circ people. IF your husband was missing a testicle, would you consider it logical to remove your newborn son's testicle so that his genitals match his fathers?

Kimberly - posted on 12/16/2010

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Sherri, my youngest dd is overweight. She is constantly comparing herself to me and her sister. Maybe I should get her liposuction.

Krista - posted on 12/16/2010

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They must not like clothing in New Hampshire or something. I have no idea if my friends' kids are circumcised. I have no idea if their husbands are circumcised. I have no idea if my brother, my nephews, my cousin, my uncle, my dad, my father-in-law, or my next-door-neighbour are circumcised.



I mean seriously...do you guys have PenisFest over there every spring or something, where everybody whips theirs out and compares notes?

Ez - posted on 12/16/2010

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i dnt have nothing to worry about ill just keep on chopping penis

And here is our proof that Charley is a troll. Surely no parent, pro-circ or not, would refer to this abhorrent procedure in such a way.

Go away Charley. Seriously.

Minnie - posted on 12/16/2010

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I do find it interesting that Sherri says that no one she knows is intact.



Um....I honestly don't know the penile state of any other male in my entire extended family on both sides besides my brother, my husband and my nephew, who's diaper I changed last weekend.



It's just not something that anyone is usually curious enough about to talk about.

[deleted account]

@Sherri - how exactly do you think kids are even going to find out that your boys are or are not circumcised? Circumcising your son won't prevent them from being picked on -- they will just be picked on about something else.

[deleted account]

"They know that girls sit and boys stand"

Hehehehe Lisa, My boy sits on the toilet to do his business but i think thats because i am the one who is around him way more than his daddy who is working crazy hours atm.



@ Charley, I never once used the word Dick thank you very much. And yes you gave me a headache and if i want to have the full story to whats going on it's a fact that i need to read what you are writing so i don't go off half cocked and look like an idiot.

Also if you were educated then why write like someone who isn't? And why get your son circumsised?

Minnie - posted on 12/16/2010

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But that's just the way children are, Sherri. Kids will find ANYTHING to pick on each other about. What if you were a minority? I know that the hispanic population in Nashua and the Indian population in Manchester are pretty high...



What would you do about that?



New Hampshire is such a teeny tiny state. Are they going to live here forever? Do they have penis comparing contests in the schools here now?



My husband is circumcised and is all for keeping our child, if he is a boy, intact. But I'm not deferring to him about it. It's nice that he agrees with me, but if it came down to his opinion and my child's bodily integrity...well...

Charley - posted on 12/16/2010

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its still compared to cancer isnt it well im leaving this crazy shit i live across the world so i dnt have nothing to worry about ill just keep on chopping penis

Minnie - posted on 12/16/2010

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Uuuuugh Charley



This is not in person. This is a debate. That's what we're here for.



Krista wasn't comparing cancer to circumcision. She was comparing the loss of a testicle [due to cancer] to the loss of a foreskin due to circumcision. Get it now?

Charley - posted on 12/16/2010

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@Krista E. why would you even compare cancer to getting circumcised that is nothing alike . if i met any of you woman in person and u told me you decided to not circumcise your son i would back you up not argue with you thats just your opinion so why not back us up

Minnie - posted on 12/16/2010

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Sherri- I guess what I've been wondering then throughout this debate, and probably what others have wondered, is, if now you know that the majority of the world is not circumcised, and that there aren't medical benefits to it, and that the trend in the US IS a decreasing rate of circumcision,



then why would you choose to circumcise any future boys (if you were to have them)?

Charley - posted on 12/16/2010

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@Shannen i have a simple cure for you dont read my post. And i prefer not to call my sons penis a dick @ lisa im a very educated woman how i choose to type is because this is just a dicussion not a term paper @Erin H you decide to make your kids go to school dont you well why not let them decide that

Minnie - posted on 12/16/2010

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Sherri- we're just trying to understand the reasoning behind circumcising because everyone else is. You're the one who brought up your husband walking around in the nude and your sons seeing him.

Minnie - posted on 12/16/2010

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I mean my girls talk about how they sit to pee and "dad stands to pee." They know that girls sit and boys stand.

*shrugs* Why do penises all have to look the same? What's the reasoning? Do they look the same even, from one circumcised penis to another? Don't they come in different sizes and shapes? Does four year old's baby penis look like Dad's 30 (or whatever) year old?

Krista - posted on 12/16/2010

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Well, Sherri, I'm damn glad that your husband never had testicular cancer and had to get a nut removed, because then you obviously would have HAD to have had one of your kid's nuts removed as well so that you wouldn't have had to come up with something oh-so-difficult like, "Yes honey. Everybody doesn't look the same. They don't have to."

Minnie - posted on 12/16/2010

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Charley, no one here is taking you seriously because you aren't typing legibly and because you need to provide FACTS to back up your stance. Don't get angry when people choose not to respect your stance of "I chose to circumcise my son because I wanted to, so there." It's a debate. It's not 'state your opinion and we'll all go on our way."



Me, I'm going to continue to believe that you are trolling if you can't at least attempt to formulate a semi-non-emotional response and correct some of the grammar.

Minnie - posted on 12/16/2010

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Meh. I'm pretty frank with my children. I don't see why a simple "Dad's penis looks different from yours because he is an adult and also because his parents chose to remove his foreskin. We know that the foreskin is a good part of you, so we left it on" wouldn't work.



Children are pretty smart.

Krista - posted on 12/16/2010

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yea i have no medical reason to do it but i did its just what im used to his dad is done as well as others in my family thats how the world works got to be like everyone else if everyone was uncircum in my family i would have not done it

That's really sad. So you put your son through a medical procedure that you admit has no medical benefit, just so that his penis will be like his father's?

My kid is blond. His dad is brunette. I'm not going to dye my baby's hair dark so that he looks like his daddy. Why is it mandatory for a son to resemble his father in every way?

Do you think he's going to be spending a lot of time comparing his dick with his dad's? Seriously?

[deleted account]

That's because what she is "writing" (I have a hard time even calling it that) is unintelligible.

[deleted account]

I so want to see this ban in place so that it is no longer the Mums decision!
I have a headache from trying to read and understand half of what Charley said.

Ez - posted on 12/16/2010

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So, it shouldn't be your choice as his mother. It should be his. That's what this proposed ban recognises.

Charley - posted on 12/16/2010

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im happy for all of u for ur choice but im happy wit mine to my point is itsmy dec as his mama to have it done so what

Ez - posted on 12/16/2010

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Even if they numbed your finger, you would still feel the tugging and pulling. Not to mention the throbbing pain afterwards.

No it doesn't make you a bad mum, but your reluctance to delve any deeper into this issue than 'it's just what I'm used to' does your son and any future children no favours.

[deleted account]

Charley, the fact that older children and adults who have the procedure done feel pain during and after the circ tells us that an infant will feel pain too, we do not have to have had a circ to know that nerves do not just suddenly appear at a certain age...and the only person who seems to have an issue with your decision to circ your son is you, nowhere in this thread has anyone except for you ever said your a bad mom for getting your child circ'd we may not agree with that choice but there is a difference between that and deeming someone a bad parent.

If all your family jumped off a cliff or got pink bunny tattoos would you? You do NOT have to be like everyone else, you are allowed to be different!

[deleted account]

@ Charley -- periods, please. Periods. No one can read a run-on sentence. It's on your keyboard by the right shift button.

I've feel very sad for you that you are so ignorant about this issue. Actually, I feel sad for your children. Particularly that you think mutilating children is "funny".

Charley - posted on 12/16/2010

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if they numb my finger first sure y not they numb the penis first and how do u know if its a comparable sensation do u have a penis that was circ. its ur opinion not to do it to ur son great for you but its my opinion to do it so what does that make me a bad mom yea i have no medical reason to do it but i did its just what im used to his dad is done as well as others in my family thats how the world works got to be like everyone else if everyone was uncircum in my family i would have not done it

Ez - posted on 12/16/2010

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Thank you Toni, I definitely did say PART.

And Charley, you can't honestly believe it doesn't hurt a baby. Would it hurt you if someone ripped your fingernail from it's nail bed? Because that is a comparable sensation.

Kelina - posted on 12/16/2010

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I'm wondering if maybe an eyelid would be a good example of something similar to the foreskin? Both are sensitive, both have protective mucosal qualities. But would any of you want your mothers to have had the choice to cut off your eyelids simply so you didn't get eye infections? not exactly the same, I know but similar.

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