Does this article seem a bit extreme to anyone?

Ary - posted on 06/21/2011 ( 79 moms have responded )

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I came across this article while browsing over advice for when I should stop bathing my kids: http://www.wethechildren.com/boundriesen...

Now, I'm all for boundaries and respecting my children's privacy, but do some of these seem a little extreme? Particularly #2 and #3. Some 3 year olds are not yet potty trained, so what is a parent supposed to do? Let their child change their own diaper? How is it sexual abuse to wipe your child's poopy butt off? Any thoughts?

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[deleted account]

Wow, what a list of stupid ass rules. I agree with some of the obvious ones, like not shaming a child if they touch themselves. But other ones are either stupid like asking a 2 year old to put medicine on their own genitals or having a child wear underwear in the bath tub so you can come in and wash their hair. Or they're weird as hell like this one:

"She may push her breasts into his face and call him "her little lover boy." A father may massage his daughter's leg or look at her in a desirous way. Parents should show affection in appropriate ways and avoid treating their child like a sexual object." Who the hell does that? The whole article weirded me out. The authors are creeps lol.

Anna - posted on 06/27/2011

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I think I'll continue to just use my common sense.

This article mentioned that it was written with the help of professionals who had worked with victims of sexual abuse. I guess I can imagine circumstances in which a few of these things could lead to sexual abuse. The problem is, as with so many other things, you really need to look at the details of the situation before labeling an action as inappropriate.

A big part of my husband's job involves reviewing CPS cases in order to determine whether counseling is needed for some of those parents. He expresses frustration with the fact that it's simply impossible to make these kinds of lists. An action that is generally harmless could become a problem in certain instances, and vice versa. There's just no getting around the fact that what's appropriate sometimes just isn't other times. It gets dicey, and I can see why someone would like a simple list like this to reference but if you're trying to eliminate every circumstance in which sexual abuse could ever possibly occur, well you'll need to rule out just about everything. I would say that's what they've done here.

Jodi - posted on 06/21/2011

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Words escape me. What morons.

Can I just say I spotted this gem?
"Some parents talk to other parents about their child's genitals in front of the child. "My son is well endowed. He sure is going to make a lot of women happy someday" "

Come ON now, who the fuck says that about their son?

Honestly, I have never read such ridiculous rubbish in my life.

Adrienne - posted on 07/12/2011

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This Article is completely crazy! I cant believe what these people think! soudns like the teaching of one of those weird cults! lol

Christina - posted on 07/08/2011

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Holy crap, I'm in trouble. Apparently I'm very abusive! My autistic daughter was not potty trained until the month she turned 5yrs old. Apparently I was wrong for changing her diaper and cleaning her.
I'm also wrong apparently for bathing my youngest two sons who are 4yrs old and 5yrs old. I guess I'll just let them be dirty because they should just know how to wash themselves by now properly.
Lets not even touch the subject that everyone walks around our house in their underwear. Or the fact that my almost 11yr old son has no issues walking into the bathroom to talk to me while I'm in the shower or taking a bath.
I guess I should also be arrested because as a nurse I deal with people's genitals every day all day long. I guess they should figure it out by themselves. I mean, if a 2yr old can be expected to put medicine on their own genitals then a 82yr old MUST be able to do it!

WTF!
In my house, we don't harp on sex. Sex and nudity are two separate things. Taking the mystery out of the human body takes a lot of the stigma away from sex as well. My children are not ashamed of their bodies and have a healthy respect. They know that no one touches their private areas and knows to tell mommy or daddy if it happens. (And they do! "Mommy, my brother touched my butt with his elbow while we were playing WWE!") People need to get over themselves.

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Jurnee - posted on 07/29/2011

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Wow! I thnk im speechless. Have a 2 yr old apply medication? A child must wear underwear in the tub to was their hair? This is way over the top, and a bit disturbing that the authors see these acts as sexual. I'll just keepon using my common sense.

Jessica - posted on 07/28/2011

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I think around 4 is when you should teach a child to wash themselves.. but 2 is ridiculous. Who the hell wrote this?

Jane - posted on 07/28/2011

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Unless she is a urologist I see no reason for any woman, married or not, to be looking at random sets of male genitals. They just aren't that attractive anyway.

[deleted account]

"My Claire is 85% potty trained and after she goes poop she never gets all the poop off her bum, so I help her. But I do let her do what she can do. "

I have a slob for a father, two older brothers, had 2 husbands and have 1 son. None of them apparently STILL know how to wipe their butts based upon what I've found in the laundry over the years.

Kayleigh - posted on 07/28/2011

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I think this only makes sense in the context of recovering abusers/victims... people who don't CLEARLY know where the line is.



If you have a normal view on sexuality and family then the small amount of useful information is a painfully obvious expressions of common sense, and the rest is extreme and unnecessary, even disturbing behavior.



I kinda hope this isn't serious.. I Like the little bit they threw in bad mouthing adultery.. lol. "but if she is married, she is also violating her husband by looking at other men's genitals." Like people need a moral reminder mid-article. lolz

Paranoid, prudish, stuffy old psychiatrists.. :P lol.

Jane - posted on 07/27/2011

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You say she is "85% potty trained" - that means she isn't there yet and won't be able to clean herself yet. In any case, just sitting in the warm tub water can clean the poop off quite nicely.

Angela - posted on 07/27/2011

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@Jane I agree with most of what you say except , I quote "little kids who are potty-trained just don't get that dirty that you need to worry about them not doing a good job. "
My Claire is 85% potty trained and after she goes poop she never gets all the poop off her bum, so I help her. But I do let her do what she can do.
Also on bathing herself, she can but I help sometimes under the neck, etc because she misses those spots. She is only 2 if she were 4 I think it would be different.

Jane - posted on 07/27/2011

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For most people this article is a waste of words. Some of it is fairly logical stuff in that as a parent you do want to improve your child's abilities to care for themselves. Some two year olds can indeed put medicine on themselves, but some still need help. And generally by the time a child is 4 or 5 they can pretty much bathe themselves. I do think that wearing underwear in the tub during hair washing is silly. If it bothers you so much, wash the child's hair at the sink.

And who the hell is going to talk about how well-endowed their child is?

The article does go a bit overboard by talking about a mom taking her small son into the men's room (not gonna happen!) or parents who are still bathing their teenagers. I would say this is all total hooey, except I have run into a woman who still bathes her 16 yo (who is otherwise perfectly normal).

Somehow the worst part of this article is that someone felt the need to spell everything out so precisely, and that innocent actions can be interpreted as abusive.

On top of everything else, little kids who are potty-trained just don't get that dirty that you need to worry about them not doing a good job.

Alison - posted on 07/13/2011

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I don't agree with a lot of it. However, I was told by my child development professor to tell children the appropriate names for their private parts and answer their questions honestly, but still age-appropriately. I also read in a book called The Pocket Pediatrician that telling them the anatomically correct names for their body parts is important, but it's ok to use a nickname in public if you want to. I also agree with not exposing kids to sexual material in movies etc. I don't think I'll feel comfortable with sending a 6-yr old into a public restroom alone, the whole making your toddler apply their own butt cream is ridiculous, and I'm pretty darn sure my 3 yr old daughter isn't going to be washing her own hair any time soon. I did feel a little uncomfortable changing her bum in the open at a rest stop but I did it anyway.

Jaime - posted on 07/13/2011

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After reading this article...I would say about 90% of it is BS. This is totally ridiculous! I would not let my 2 or 3 year old put medicine on themselves...some 2 year olds still put stuff in their mouth and aren't potty-trained. As for bathing, my 7 year old does wash his own body but I do still wash his hair or it won't get done.

If you think I'm going to tell my 7 year old to lock himself in the bathroom or bedroom????? What if something happens you have to break down the door? Is this guy a total idiot? And my children do sometimes sleep in bed with me and there are a LOT of cultures who do it regularly. There is nothing wrong with your little boy cuddling and sleeping with you - if anything, my attention to my son has made us very close where he tells me everything, even when he's done something wrong at school he will tell me in the car.

This man is trying to put our children away from us, and have a 4-5 year old grow up too fast thinking they are already preteens?? Does he actually have kids and if so I feel terrible for them.

Vicky - posted on 07/13/2011

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Really? Ok, I might understand if this is supposed to be directed toward parents to have been abused as children but even in that case it is very distasteful and insulting.

Angela - posted on 07/12/2011

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UMMMMMM I am dumbfounded! Rarely do i find myself at a lost for words but for a few moments I was!
Wearing ones underwear in the tub! I think it is good to raise the awareness of child sex abuse but this article freaks me out, if I really listen to the advice I would be sending a weird message to my daughter for sure!
Let a child wipe his butt or put his own medication on? WTF I have to say my kids never cleaned their bottoms very well until around age 4 or 5 I always had to help. In fact I tell my daughter to bend over after she does her thing and I wipe her butt.
This is why I take psychiatry with a grain of salt...Their is always this gray area duet to the fact it is always changing.
I have said it before and I will say it again. Teach children to respect their bodies and others as well and teach them to voice what they are comfortable with and not. Teach appropriate behavior for touching etc....
About the bathroom, what if you are a single parent you need to use a toilet! I live in Europe where many of the bathrooms are unisex or seperated only by a wall. at firs being from the USA I was a bit freaked out.... but now I am like it is just peeing and pooping for crying out loud, we all do it! It is not like I can see a mans genitals or something but I do see men and they see me going to our respective area's to do our deed.

Teresa - posted on 07/10/2011

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Totally over the top. As a parent, it is my responsibility to keep my child clean in all areas and I take that responsibility seriously. Dirty bodies lead to infections. This is just too much really.

[deleted account]

This article massively creeped me out. Who does some of that stuff anyway? What is with the naked hangups too? Geez! I'm not a nudist but I also know the difference between nudity and being sexually provocative. The folks who wrote this article may be recovering from abuse and if that's the case, then anything could seem abusive to them. I'm also a victim of abuse but I know exactly what is abuse and what isn't. Basically if something is done with a sexual intent, it's abusive. The vaaaaast majority of parents have NO sexual feelings toward their children. Those that do, won't listen to any list anyway.

Jennifer - posted on 07/01/2011

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Looking at the website I can tell you this is a couple of isolated nut jobs running their own website. I don't even know if they are still active - could send an email and see if someone responds... of course this is ridculous and written by people who have some serious delusions about parents.

[deleted account]

My dad used to take me in the mens if we were out without my mom, he just used to check there was no penises visible - if I did see any I can't remember so it didn't scar me. TBH I don't generally think men display themselves while using the urinals, the men I know try to show as little as possble, so it's unlikely our children male or female will see anything (unless of course they go and look).

Nicky - posted on 06/30/2011

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interesting thought JuLeah, Im not sure i'd be comfortable with my husband taking our young daughter into a mens room.. I have never thought about it!! maybe im a prude but i imagine crusty old men with their wangers out is not the image I want my little girl seeing, but then again, not sure how many places i'd be taking my little girl where crusty old men with their wangers out hang out in the bathroom haha

Nicky - posted on 06/30/2011

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Its a bit like helicopter parenting... am sure the people who wrote that article don't let their kids get muddy (germs!!) vaccinate against every single possible disease that is out there, including rabies, yellow fever and typhoid probably (you just never know!), don't let their kids make their own choices about anything, and heaven forbid one of them grows up and wants a cellphone, or goes on the internet!!! there are such predators out there in the big wide world!!!
Go with your instincts, your nurturing voice inside, and that of your partner too, because they have opinions and feelings too.
Kids are kids, they'll figure out what a VJ and doodle are one day, and they'll all react differently. Its our job to keep our children fed, warm, and safe. And we do that by trusting our instincts, and using our common sense. I dont think anyone can 'tell' you how to parent.

Charlie - posted on 06/27/2011

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Some parents tell the child that the genitals are dirty and that sex is evil and nasty. They shame the child if the child touches himself/herself and may even punish the child for masturbating. Parents should never insinuate that sex or the human body is bad, dirty or nasty.

Kinda goes against their whole article .

Robin - posted on 06/26/2011

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I find the whole thing crazy and for god sakes why is it diffrent for same sex couples I have read some crazy things but this takes the cake who ever wrote this has some issues

Kimberly - posted on 06/26/2011

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So does that mean my husband is being unfaithful to me if he catches a glimpse of a penis in the men's bathroom?

And what guys are these people peeing with? Porn stars? Between the pants covering the base and the fist holding the rest, most guys aren't going to have much else to see unless they're...happy to be seen.

[deleted account]

Some parents tell the child that the genitals are dirty and that sex is evil and nasty. They shame the child if the child touches himself/herself and may even punish the child for masturbating. Parents should never insinuate that sex or the human body is bad, dirty or nasty.

Uh...

[deleted account]

If the parent must wash the child’s hair, the child should wear underwear in the tub.

I think the parent should also wear gloves. In case s/he accidentally touches "it."

Constance - posted on 06/25/2011

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@Kristin your daughter is the proven fact that if our kids are uncomfortable they will let us know. I am proud of her that she had the strength to say no more. It is a ver diffcult thing to do.

Kristin - posted on 06/25/2011

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Ok, so if I walk from the bathroom to the bedroom in just my bra and panties, then I'm sexually abusing my kids....but if I put on a bikini for the same trip, that's ok??? Considering that my bra and panties probably cover more than most bikinis would, how does that work? And I often have my girls (aged 17 and 19) in my room while I'm getting changed. I do turn with my back to them, but I figure if they are uncomfortable watching me change, then they can leave the room.....it's MY room after all! Even my son (21yo) will stand just outside my door while I change if we are talking. I have done many of the things on that list....putting cream on their genitals, bathing them, allowing them to share my bed, taking my son to public toilets with me.They all understand the difference between appropriate and inappropriate activity. In fact, 2 years ago my older daughter had her father jailed for sexual abuse...she knew what he was doing was wrong, and had the courage and strength to say "no more!" I am proud of her, and I know if they felt I was stepping over the line, they would soon let me know!

Constance - posted on 06/25/2011

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We don't offically co-sleep but we bought a Calf King because we always have 1 or 2 kids sleep in our bed sometimes more. We have 8, ages 6 to 19. I wonder how they would feel about that.

JuLeah - posted on 06/25/2011

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Blythe has a Bachelor of Arts Degree in Mass Communication from Auburn University with a minor in Journalism. She lives in Colorado Springs with her husband and three children. (according to the web)

A Catholic priest, Father David Daniel, repeatedly committed sexual crimes on children throughout his 20-year career as a priest .... I don't know if it is the same David Daniel, but it sems to be... as his name is linked to this article so many times .... two men with the same name .... one commiting acts of abuse, and one going over the top in an effort to prevent ???? I don't know

Both have spoken on the 700 club which ought to be right there, '' 'nuft said' .... They are not worth listening to regardless ....

Erin - posted on 06/24/2011

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I saw this link posted elsewhere on the forums, and I wholeheartedly believe that the people who wrote it, have been in a coma since the 50s. Woke up. And immediately started using the internet. A scary concept.

I would be lost living by the guidelines they lay out. Also how else is a woman supposed to sneak a peak at all those awesome penises in the mens room! Sheesh. Like were incapable of pure thoughts, and the second "temptation" is near, we get weak in the knees and just have to gawk? Be still my heart!

Sarah - posted on 06/24/2011

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About the men taking their daughter to the bathroom lol.... What SHOULD men do?
I would have thought they would use the disabled toilet, the toilet in the parents room or a family toilet.
In a public restroom like at a park i would prefer my partner took our daughter to the female ones because the male toilets are feral lol. I have often seen men bring their daughter to the female toilets and it doesnt bother me in the slightest!
In a resturant or somewhere the male toilets wouldn't be filthy i would think the dad would just have to do a quick head check to make sure there's no men at the urinals who may be uncomfortable with a curious little girl looking and if theres no one there, i don't see a problem.
I definitely would not be happy if he sent her in to the female toilets by herself and asked a stranger to check on her! WTF!
I'm fairly confident her dad is not a sexual predator but who knows about these strange women or other creeps that could be hiding in the cubicles! hahahaha

JuLeah - posted on 06/24/2011

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That is one mixed up person who seems to believe that their culture, and only their culture is the correct culture.

In some cultures, kids and parents always sleep together, in some, seldom wear clothes.

I think if you make a kid wear underware in the tub, you are actually teaching them shame about their body.

And, I would not take my 3yr old son into the mens' room, I'd take him with me into the women's room. As, I assume a father would take a daughter into the men's room .... again culture as many countries simply have washroom and both genders use them ... or family washrooms.

I do feel, in American culture it would be a violation to the men if I were to walk in a men's room while men were .. well, using it.

But, to look as a naked man peeing is not sexual and that comment about disrespecting my husband if I look at a naked man .... what if I were a doctor? What if I were married to a woman? What if we lived in a nudiest community ... the authors of this article need help

[deleted account]

That your a good mom and are keeping your older daughter involved so she doesn't feel pushed out or neglected

Stephanie - posted on 06/24/2011

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There are a few in here that make sense, however it seems like this author doesn't even have children/. The whole medicine thing at 2 , yeah right. My daughter still likes to play with her penaten cream and she is 15 months. On another note, I would never encourage my kids to lock a bedroom or bathroom door, for the mere reason that if something happens, I can't get in fast enough. All in all though some of these are extreme and I agree that this author must is a freak/weirdo to think up all this stuff.

Jenna - posted on 06/24/2011

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I would say it is a tad bit too extreme. Yes, letting a 2 year old apply medicine to private parts will work really well!! I am sure that the medicine wont end up in their mouth or smeared all over furniture, clothing, etc. I do agree that the author must be a real creep to have thought of all of these things. What a wierdo!!!

Vegemite - posted on 06/24/2011

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Well according to this I'm a horrible mother. I mean, in the last week I've put cream on my 2 yr old's penis, asked my 3 yr old for a kiss which he chose to plant on my lips. We had 15 minutes to get 4 people showered and dressed, my hair done and makeup of course ready to go out so I got the boys and put them in the shower with me. Oh and when I pick them up to sit them on my hip I wrap my arm firmly around them with my hand under their bottoms to give extra surface area to sit on because I'm small (5ft) and they both weigh 14kg, also because I often carry them at the same time so that's nearly 30kg (more than half my weight). I wonder what they'd have to say about that.

I also wonder what their opinion on extended breast feeding is. If I had the choice my youngest would be only just beginning to ween I wonder if that counts as "pushing my breast into his face"?

What ridiculous nonsensical babble.

Kelsey - posted on 06/23/2011

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indeed you know what mi little girl loves to play with diaper cream shes 2 and seems to think it is paint and puts it on her tummy and legs and face and wherever else she can so when she does get a diaper rash from peeing the bed at night or her car seat it is my job as a parent to make sure that it gets put where it needs to be so she doesnt get bad "owies" from it and as for bath time mi sisters are 4 10 12 and 15 and the 10yrold still gets her hair washed by my mom because she hates washing her hair and refuses to do so. who ever wrote this has a f**ked up view on parenting

Stifler's - posted on 06/23/2011

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WTF. Most people's kids I know still need supervision to use the toilet/wipe their butt at 3.

Candi - posted on 06/23/2011

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Thats funny. Does anyone really kiss their child's butt? And what mother would press their child's face into her breasts? Massages are great for any age, but to have a father look at his daughter that way? What kind of world were these people raised in?I will admit, my kids were all potty trained around the 2 yr mark, so they were capable of wiping themselves and my husband refused to go into the bathroom while my daughters were bathing. My girls have been washing themselves and their own hair for a number of yrs now. (they are 11 and 6). I'm sorry, I am still laughing

Lori - posted on 06/23/2011

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I think the authors of this article must have had nannys to take care of their children. Someone had to wash their childs private area and put cream on them when they were small. My son at the age of 11 had a serious bicycle accident and while flipping over the handle bars and his scrotum was lacerated though his jeans. I looked at it and assessed the situation, by the way his sister was 15 and was with me also, needless to say we went to the hospial. By the time everything was over he had recieved stiches and half the hospital had seen his scottom, xray techs, doctor, urologist, and even the pastor of the church who just happened to see us there. My son did not turn out to be a sexual deviant and just laughes at the experience now.
By the way I put triple antibiotic ointment on him for several weeks. Maybe I am the sexual deviant. LOL

Jenni - posted on 06/23/2011

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I found this one particularly disturbing.



13) Touching, kissing or hugging the child in a flirtations way

She may push her breasts into his face and call him "her little lover boy." A father may massage his daughter's leg or look at her in a desirous way. Parents should show affection in appropriate ways and avoid treating their child like a sexual object.



Ok. Seriously, who does things like that who are not sick and twisted? Especially, the one about the father. Eh, I think if a parent is doing these things they have some serious issues distinguishing between love and sexuality.



And the co-sleeping cut off age? I'm not sure how sleeping together as a family is harmful? Or gives mixed messages. I'm not an extended co-sleeper and my son crawls into bed in the morning but I see no problems with families who practice extended co-sleeping.



Yes I agree with you, there are plenty of late potty trainers. Also, not all children are capable of washing their own privates. I encourage my son (3 years old) to wash his own penis but he is still refusing to do it himself.



And unless you're some kind of pedophile most of these 'rules' are absurd. If you are a pedophile the best thing you can do is stay the "F" away from your kids. I feel like the author is assuming we parents all have sick, pervese thoughts about our children and can't seperate sexuality from love. Weird.



Ya, that's what me and girls talk about when we get together, how well-endowed our son's are. O_o

Sarah - posted on 06/23/2011

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oh well yeah lol :)
I guess i think of masturbating as only something sexual. The actual whole act of masturbation.
A baby touching his bits is hardly masturbation lol! A fetus would have no concept of what that is!
It's interesting that they do i guess. I'd never thought about it either way lol

[deleted account]

Sarah both sexes masturbate in utero, they may not consciously do it but naturally they do - I suppose it feels nice, it doesn't make it sexual though. It would be the same as babies sucking their thumb in utero.

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