Lady - posted on 06/11/2010 ( 126 moms have responded )
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Most athiests have had some sort of religious teachings. They have either had religious parents, attened church or suday school or at least learned about god in school. Therefore the choice to be an athiest does not come from ignorance of god or the bible they just doen't believe it.
I'm curious to know if christians and believers have looked at the otherside? Have any of you read Richard Dawkins or any other athiest literature?
When my husband was deciding he was an athiest he read extensively about both sides of the argument. Including the bible and the book written by the chap who was a devoute athiest and set out once and for all to prove he was right and ended up a born again christian. But still the counter argument was too strong and made much more sense to him.
I'm not trying to bash religion in this thread or change any bodies mind - I am simply curious to know if people have looked at both sides of the argument or have they just been happy believeing what they were taught?
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Allison - posted on 06/11/2010
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I was also raised Roman Catholic, and although I NEVER believed any of the rules/regulations or most of the bible, I was a TOTAL believer in Jesus and God until college. Until that time, I felt I had a person relationship with God and talked to him all the time. Then, after I left my family and started learning philosophy and science I felt quite a bit more agnostic. I started to realize that I was actually talking to myself, and answering my own questions the way I wanted to...and I realized that most of my beliefs were based on this dreamy fairy tale I had been taught, and there were WAY more parts of it that I didn't believe than there were parts that I did. So only after several years and much soul-searching I became 100% atheist.
I am a scientist, and the more I learned, the more BEAUTY I found in a world shaped by magnificent natural forces that need NO deity directing or forming them. It all follows naturally from the big bang, from the tiniest electron to the biggest supernova to my son's beautiful blue eyes - we are all shaped by these powerful, unchanging, ordered natural laws. That is WAY more amazing and meaningful to me than any magical fairy tale!!! And it gives me way more reason to live a full and GOOD life when I only have this one, tangible life and world. We better take superb care of ourselves and our world if it's the only one we have!
I think that what carries on is all of our combined actions and words. I mean, we all touch SO many people each day, who interact with others, and on and on. We are all connected, from the beginning of humanity until today. Not to mention to all of the plants, animals and the entire ecosystem we inhabit...it is ALL incredibly connected . THAT brings tears to my eyes, and I don't have to imagine it or convince myself or anyone else that it's real - I can SEE it and TOUCH it and TASTE it and HEAR it and SMELL it - and so can everyone else !!!
@ Alison P. - I wish I knew more atheists!!! Everywhere I have ever lived, I have been pretty scared to "come out" for fear of rejection and criticism, if not total condemnation by my friends and family :( I'm trying to have a little more faith in THEM - that is, trust that they will be able to handle it, even though the evidence shows otherwise - but still haven't told too many of them...they all assume I believe in God and always want me to go to church...*sigh* I have only my husband and ONE friend who I know share my beliefs. What I miss most about church is the sense of community - so I am trying to find it in other ways. I love these discussions :)
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Samantha, if your god is real and Genesis is a factual account - then only 2 people sinned and Jesus is wrong that children cannot be held accountable for the sins of the parent. If we continue with the concept that the Bible is 100% factual, we must accept that the slaughter of children and the mass rape of young virgin girls can be a moral and rightous act. (Numbers 31:15-18)
If the Bible were true, 100% factual, then I would not be able to tolerate that god for I find that character's morality to be capricious, vain and untrustworthy.
Again, this were if the Bible was 100% factual. Mind you, I hold Yahweh in no special low esteem, for example I find Zeus to be a rampant rapist whom I also would choose not to worship anytime soon.
Tanya - posted on 06/12/2010
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Also thank you Meghan Maloy.
Myth:
Atheism is just another religion.
Perhaps it would also help to examine what a religion is. The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, in its article on Religion, lists some characteristics of religions. The more markers that are present in a belief system, the more "religious like" it is. Because it allows for broader gray areas in the concept of religion, I prefer this over more simplistic definitions we can find in basic dictionaries. Read the list and see how atheism fares :
1. Belief in supernatural beings (gods).
2. A distinction between sacred and profane objects.
3. Ritual acts focused on sacred objects.
4. A moral code believed to be sanctioned by the gods.
5. Characteristically religious feelings (awe, sense of mystery, sense of guilt, adoration), which tend to be aroused in the presence of sacred objects and during the practice of ritual, and which are connected in idea with the gods.
6. Prayer and other forms of communication with gods.
7. A world view, or a general picture of the world as a whole and the place of the individual therein. This picture contains some specification of an over-all purpose or point of the world and an indication of how the individual fits into it.
8. A more or less total organization of one's life based on the world view.
9. A social group bound together by the above.
To try and claim that atheism is a religion requires, it should be pretty obvious from the above, a radical ad hock redefinition in what it is that "being a religion" is supposed to mean, resulting in a radically equivocal use of the new term-- if atheism is a religion, then just what isn't a religion?
SO NO ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION!!!!!!!
In addition, it should be noted that theism itself does not qualify as a religion based upon the above - and for most of the same reasons that atheism does not qualify. When you stop to think about it, theism - the mere belief in god(s) - does not automatically entail almost any of the beliefs or practices listed in either the above letter or the above definition. In order to have a religion, you need quite a bit more than either simple belief or disbelief. This fact is clearly reflected in the real world, because we find theism which exists outside of religion and religion which exists without theism.
Atheism is a disbelief, not a philosophy. My disbelief in the Tooth Fairy is not a philosophy of life - is it for anyone else? Furthermore, a philosophy of life is not necessarily a religion and it doesn't necessitate that a religious belief exists in the person with the philosophy.
Krista - posted on 06/12/2010
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Saddens me to see all of the people who have not asked Jesus in their hearts because I know of their fate.
Um, no. You don't. You BELIEVE you know. But unless you actually died and saw what was in the afterlife and have come back to tell us all about it, then you don't know any more than the rest of us about what happens after we die.
Allison - posted on 06/28/2010
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Wow, what a fun thread :) My brother picked up a pamphlet on the creation museum from someone at school. Pretty loopy stuff.
Something really interesting from one of Dawkin's essays - within the next 50 years, we will be able to map out the entire evolutionary tree connecting all the way from bacteria to humans by comparing entire genomes. We're already partway there. It's pretty awesome, and absolutely without a doubt proves that evolution made us (and every other living thing) what we are today...but I wonder, still, if people will not believe that, even when the proof is visible and verified over and over ???
That is what worries me, when people blatantly deny tangible, visible, logical, reasonable and WONDERFUL facts just so they don't have to admit they were mistaken. I mean, I think that is why so many atrocities occur in the name of religion, because *many* religious people don't believe they have to live within the laws of this world, but by whatever rules they have fabricated in their head or religious sect - no matter who else it hurts :( If it was harmless, I wouldn't argue so much about religion, but it can be a very harmful and devastating force in the world - not to say it's the only one, of course - but it is a pretty powerful and pervasive force, to be sure. And even if your religion is good and helps people, I think that the very act of TOLERATING "laws beyond this world" supports the VALIDITY of religious sects whose laws are quite damaging to life on this planet. (Now I'm sounding a bit like Dawkins, I think...)