Is ' spanking ' and effective form of discipline?

[deleted account] ( 155 moms have responded )

I've seen this debate in many other communities but it always gets heated and closed before it provides any useful information so let's try and keep it positive! Offer facts and debate.......check ur emotions at the door!

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Valerie - posted on 04/15/2010

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Quotes from non-spankers: "BUT I (ME) think that ' spanking ', ' smacking ', and even the most recent one I've heard, ' saucing ' are all FORMS of abuse whether it be a child or an adult!" Thus those of us who spank are abusing our children.

"I think it is wrong to teach a child that physical violence is a way to get others to do what you want." implies that those of us who spank are teaching our kids that they should use physical violence to solve issues.

The insults are not blatent but if you read the thread there is a definite trend of implications that those of us who spank are behaving poorly towards our own children instead of having their best interests at heart.

As for the studies that say spanking is bad, they never mention their definition of spanking (how hard and in what way are these parents "spanking") and what do they use to define aggression. Both of these are huge factors in determining what the study really shows. Especially the first one. I've seen some parents just wail on their kids and call it "spanking" That appalls me. My kiddo gets spanked if she does something dangerous. She is always then sat down for a conversation afterward about why she was spanked and what she should do next time instead. usually it's a time out with the same discussion. Redirection is huge.

I taught 32 first graders for 3.5 years before having my kids and we are not allowed to spank there and I had no problems. However I equate spanking to sending the kid to the principals office. The last resort when a clear message needs to be sent.

Finally, for those who say our kids will start beating others because they've been spanked or that you don't hit your friends I like to point out you also don't put your friends on time-out. There needs to be a clear line always set for your kids that you are on a different level then friend. You are the authority figure! They should have a completely different (albeit about 1000% more loving!) relationship than they do with their friends!

I have no issues with those who decide to spank your kids. Kudos to you! I spank my kids occasionally because it's what my mother did and I think she was the most fantastic mother in the universe. If you want to say that I abuse my kid or teach her violence because of this you can kiss my cute heiney cause I don't care. I'm a fantastic mother and absolutely adore my 2 kiddos with every fiber of my being!

[deleted account]

I've tried other methods. Time outs, well....she finds a way to amuse herself in the corner. I did the same thing as a child. I liked being alone so time outs didn't work. Spankings worked.



I don't find a private place because it's seen as "unacceptable" to spank. I find a private place because it is a private issue.



And she should be embarrassed by her bad behavior. She'll learn not to do it again.



And she hugs back harder than I hug her. She enjoys that and so do I. It's to let her know that the issue is over and we are going to forget about it. And she is happy again once the spanking is over. And yes, she understands every word I say. Kids are a lot smarter than we give them credit for a lot of times.



I know it works. She's stopped behaviors that I've corrected with spanking. And when I warn that a spanking is coming, she will correct herself and I won't have to spank.



**edit to say that I don't think you are harsh. You are on a debate board and therefor have a right to pick apart what I say. You don't have to worry about that with me. I have thick skin. =)

[deleted account]

Of course I'm not perfect. I have spanked my child out of anger. That's how I know it doesn't work & shouldn't be done. I never said "I NEVER" spank out of anger. But, Try really hard not to. I can honestly say Most of the time I don't spank out of anger. Everyone messes up. I then have to apologize to my daughter, explain to her what I did was wrong & ask her to forgive me.

[deleted account]

I don't buy that 'spanking breeds aggression' argument when spanking is done correctly. I've personally seen the exact opposite repeatedly in various children that I've known.

Tah - posted on 04/17/2010

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i think that some people on here who may have been abused as children may have a pov that is biased to spanking and rightly so. I do spank, it works for us and has worked for us. I have seen worse behavior out of children that have never had a good swat on the botton then those that have, my children intelligent and non-violent and so are my siblings who were also spanked. i think sometimes non-spankers think that thos of us who spank haven't tried anything else and that isn't true.

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[deleted account]

Ladies,

If you want to continue debating this topic please open a new thread.

Thank-you
Toni
Moderator

Leeann - posted on 03/28/2011

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i was raised by a old school southern mother and a father that was raised in an old mining town my dad later became a military man. both were spanked (mom by switches no less) and both are the most upstanding people on could ever meet. me my three sisters and my brother were all spanked with various other punishments as well. time were a changing after all. and we all turned out very well. my husband wasn't spanked but he believes in it as well as i do. it works as long as it is done in moderation and done for the right reasons at the right time.

all three of my children have been spanked and all three are the most well behaved polite children and not because they are scared. they dont hit each other and just generally good kids.

i dont hold with that if you spank a kid they grow up hitting. my children never lay a hand on each other. sometimes a child needs the immediate "no what you did was bad" and the immediate consequence.

now i do believe in other punishments as well i do not just spank that would be wrong. it doesn't work for every child and i dont recommend it for every child. its a case by case situation.

Ariel - posted on 05/13/2010

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To each their own. But I do not believe that the first resort should be hit the child. try other things first. try time out. Try taking things away. Try making them run laps or do knuckles (push ups on their knuckles). I would deffinantly make spanking a last resort. Not saying never do it. But dont show ur kid that when somethin goes wrong they can just hit. cause thats not right either.

C. - posted on 04/19/2010

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And in other's experiences, the children that got spanked stopped those actions completely, not just in front of their parents.. Could be that maybe those who didn't stop completely (in your experience) may not have been brought up with a consistent form of discipline? Sounds like a possibility to me.



We all have our opinions..

Brandi - posted on 04/19/2010

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My opinion:



Spanking=a swat to the hand or butt

Abuse or beating=everything else



That said, I don't really view spanking as an effective method of discipline. At this point, anyway. Maybe later I will change my mind. But right now, I think it just serves as an immediate solution to a problem and doesn't change things for the long-term. Children who get spanked, in my experience, simply learn not to do whatever thing they were doing in front of their parents to avoid being hit. They don't learn to stop doing whatever they were doing completely because it's wrong or unsafe.

[deleted account]

Thanks Sara! I'm kinda partial but I have to agree with you...;) I've just recently become a part of a new community called, " Positive Behaviour Strategies - Solutions without Smacking " and it's great! Every one's there to get and give advise, support and alternatives to spanking!

[deleted account]

I can totally appreciate having clear guidelines and rules and consistent clear consequences........you don't spank ALL the time but lil' Johnny knows if he ' touches the hot stove ' he's gonna get a ' spanking '.......I think whatever method of discipline we (general) need to be clear and consistent! Roxanne LOVES routine and although she's starting (19 months) to test some boundaries she KNOWS exactly what's coming next!

Valerie - posted on 04/18/2010

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If my daughter is doing something dangerous, it is my "go to" method, yes. I think it is very important to have clear consistent guidelines in whatever form of discipline you use so that you never cross the line. Thus I don't just spank when I feel like it (ie cranky, crabby, haven't had enough sleep, kiddo hasn't had enough sleep and has crossed the line so many times I need to go scream in my pillow) Clear and consistent guidelines makes it very clear to her and myself what she did wrong and what her punishment will be.

As for talking about those of us just starting out and not knowing the long-term consequences of spanking I must point out that we also don't know the long-term consequences of any choice that we make (For example, perhaps there are consequences for not spanking your kid, or not being firm enough with them) I think it's important that we think things through, but not to the point where we are always changing and never settling on something permanent. From 4 years teaching experience I can tell you, consistency is #1 for classroom management. The kids are happier and the teacher is happier if there is a routine, clear guidelines and rules, and clear consequences. Follow these principals and you will do great!

I have a strict routine with my kiddos that I have even written out. I have clear guidelines to follow (where we can not play, when we are allowed to help with the baby and when not to, etc.) and clear levels of discipline. (first time - sit down and talk for a min, second time - time out, third time, quiet time in our room. fourth time - spanking and time out in room Life threatening choices get a spanking.....if actually performed. If I catch her first I explain that it is dangerous.) I follow these very consistently. Except the moments where I'm so nuts with all the craziness that I tell her we both need quiet time and we both hang out in our rooms till I calm down and think clearly :P

Suzette - posted on 04/17/2010

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I agree with the hand vs. object, not to mention to me using an object is like picking up a shoe and throwing it at someone. (I was that angry once, or rather I allowed my anger to get the best of me in that sense once, at my brother when we were kids.) I have not hit my niece with an object when spanking, I would not hit my daughter with an object either. If it works for some people, then more power to them, it's like Sarah said - every parent and child are different.

As far as Dana's question:
Is spanking your go to disciplinary method for ALL or just SPECIFIC behaviours? Do you SOMETIMES or ALWAYS try other methods first? Do you consider every situation unique and consequently choose a specific method based on the crime?

I don't know if this was only directed at Valerie, but here's my answer. No, it's not my "go to" method. With my niece, as I will do with my daughter, I will try other methods first - depending on the situation. For example, if my niece had been acting up over and over again, talking wasn't working, making her sit wasn't working, then she'd likely get a swat on the butt. (Asking her to clean doesnt' work, she likes it.) Then I'd talk to her, tell her what it was she did to get the swat, ask if she understood what it was she did (she says yes about 99% of the time), then she'd apologize (99% of the time), and give me a hug. Most of the time talking works, there are cases where she's just being a smartaleck and feels like she's adult enough to know you're wrong (she's been at that stage since about 6) that she won't respond to anything but a swat on the butt. Then it's the realization that she's not right, she's disappointed one of us, and she's extremely sorry. But it all depends on what she's done. She knows not to push the limit though... and she'll apologize when she realizes she's doing it.

Suzette - posted on 04/17/2010

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Alison P,

I wasn't sure and I didn't want to make any accusations either. :) Thanks for clarifying that though!! =)

[deleted account]

When you use ur hand, or open palm you're able to know how much force you're actually using vs. using a wooden spoon where you can't necessarily determine how hard you are actually hitting!

Rosie - posted on 04/17/2010

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i think sara h hit the nail on the head. every child is different, every parent is different. some kids respond to spankings, some kids don't. some people who spank may be inconsistant and the spankings don 't work. some people who don't spank may be inconsistant and their way doesn't work. some people, like dana's parent take it to far and it ends up being abuse, some people, like most people who spank, don't take it too far and it's not abuse.

it seems consistancy is the key, and the way you do it. i consider hitting a child with a belt or anything other than your hand to be abuse, some may not. why i draw the line between a hand and an object, i don't know, maybe it seems like it would actually hurt when using an object, or leave a mark, whereas my hand wouldn't.

[deleted account]

Valerie, in ur above post you said something that got me thinking?.......is ' spanking ' ur ' go to ' disciplinary method for ALL or just SPECIFIC behaviours? Do you SOMETIMES or ALWAYS try other methods first? Do you consider every situation unique and consequently choose a specific method based on the crime?

Valerie - posted on 04/17/2010

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I have heard it said that you should use a spoon so that the child doesn't associate your hand with the punishment. My mom told me she thought that was a load of you-know-what. :P She said the kid knows who is spanking them, whether you use a spoon or not. She only used her hand because as she put it, you can feel how hard you've spanked by how your hand feels. :) So that's what I do, open hand, one to two swats on the bottom.

I also was talking to my mom about this and talked about how hard it is with 2-3 year olds who are asserting independence but often unable to truly understand some of the dangers of what they do. Spanking to me makes it very clear to my daughter that the things that are dangerous (running away in the parking lot, into the street, touching hot things, etc) are very different from the things she goes on time out for (being defiant, etc) You can agree with it or not, but as she gets old enough to truly understand more of future consequence of what she does I will be using other forms of punishment.

I do feel to spank past the age of 5 should be excessively rare! By then they can have true discussions with you about what they did.

I also wanted to add how great it is to see a hot topic like this and see everyone talking about it so civilly to each other! Well done ladies! We are all mothers who care about our kids and do what we think is best. I feel as long as we love our kids and support each other we will turn out fine!

C. - posted on 04/17/2010

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@Gina.. First I just want to say that I'm sorry you and your family had to go through that.. I hope everything is much better now, though. I want to point out that if spanking is done correctly (not out of anger) it really does not hurt the child. It gets their attention, but it does not hurt them. Spanking out of anger does hurt your child very much, physically and emotionally, and should never be done.

Gina - posted on 04/17/2010

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Dana,thank you for sharing, thank you ladies.Talking about what happened to you is never easy but sometimes it helps others understand better. I have a almost 12 year old daughter and she has always hung on to me wherever I go she goes even now.When I got sick and needed to go to the hospital,she went crazy, crying and screaming that she wanted to come and just 'mum please'. My husband got pushed over the edge, a sick wife and a 10 year old acting like a two year old, it was not pretty!!!!!!!! So he spanked her bum took her to her room,to a open mouthed aunt and me into the car, hearing my daughter cry for me sent me running to hold her. My daughter was scared that I would die,so I took her with me to hospital. She was still upset with her father though. My daughter is my life an d looks to me for everything how can I hurt her?, and ye spanking does hurt,when she doesn't behave I take away her computer, or ground her and that teachers her. Sorry to go on just wanted to share.Dana I love your replies soo funny!!!

[deleted account]

Ladies, I just want to say THANK YOU! This debate has gone relatively well, IMO and as the original poster I just want to let you all know that I've learned a great deal and I appreciate everything EVERYONE said, whether I agree with you or not!

Keep the comments coming!

[deleted account]

@ Suzette

Alison P,
In response to:
"The problem with mentioning the discipline we received growing up is that you get bashed for it. I've seen many many posts on here who bash people for giving the "when I was a kid..." explanation on a variety of issues."
I'm not sure if you mean this thread or if you're referring to others. If you're referring to this thread, I don't believe I've seen any of those posts. I know that I mentioned something to one person, but it wasn't meant as a "bash," it was meant as something entirely different. But I know that person knew that too. As I said, I'm not sure if you meant this thread (or even me lol) or not. :)



Sorry, I wasnt directing that at you or even this thread. It's not even limited to this topic. I was thinking about general parenting debates on a variety off issues that appear on CoM. Posters often get bashed if they make the "When I was a kid..." or "it did me no harm" statements. I can understand the bashers reason for doing it too. I'm just trying to avoid being a bashee now.

C. - posted on 04/17/2010

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Here, ladies.. A more acceptable definition and it's from the Merriam-Webster online dictionary. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionar...



"Main Entry: 1spank

Pronunciation: \ˈspaŋk\

Function: transitive verb

Etymology: imitative

Date: circa 1712

: to strike especially on the buttocks with the open hand

— spank noun"



THIS is what I believe spanking to be.. With the hand.

Suzette - posted on 04/17/2010

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Hi Kathy, no problem... I think we all do it once in a while. :)
I got that you felt that way about spanking, we'll just have to agree to disagree there. I thought her definition only said punishment... but I don't agree with that definition that was found due to the usage of anything other than an open hand anyway. I feel that if a person is going to spank (not you, just in general) then they should only use an open hand. but that's just my opinion. =)

[deleted account]

Hi Suzette, I misunderstood, sorry. I do feel spanking with the hand IS corporal punishment. (See Dana's definition) "Corporal" means "body", I interpret this to mean that any form of inflicting pain on the body as punishment is corporal punishment.

C. - posted on 04/17/2010

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@Sara D.. I haven't said that in a while, so you COULD have let it go a long time ago.. Good Lord..



But, now that we're on that.. Maybe you know now how it felt to me when you were saying that I implied things on a breast-feeding thread a while back, when those words never came out of me.. So... This just proves the whole point again that no one is perfect.





@The group.. I think Sara H. is right.. Consistency plays a huge role in how a person turns out. If a parent isn't consistent, the child will push the limits all the time and they are likely to continue that action in adulthood.



Too many long posts to read right now, so I'll have to come back to it later..

Suzette - posted on 04/17/2010

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Kathy, I responded to it saying this, "When I was younger and me and my brother would get spanked, we'd much rather have the spanking than to have her kick or hit something. It scared the living crap out of us. I think that has more to do with our biological father than anything though."
If you had read anything in my earlier posts, not sure if you had or not, then it would've made sense. lol. If not, it's not a big deal. It wasn't anything negative, it was just something that I caught and remembered from my own childhood. ;)

I know what you said about corporal punishment, though I personally disagree that spanking with an open hand is corporal punishment... I realize that your opinon/beliefs are different. From what I understand (or at least have been told in conversation, I haven't researched it so I could be misinformed) there are actually schools that are reinstating the whole spanking thing.

[deleted account]

Suzatte, corporal punishment has been outlawed in schools now. It wasn't then (it was a long time ago!) I also said that I don't agree with ANY sort of corporal punishment.

What was the point of your quoting the bit of my post that referred to leaving a mark on the cupboard? I was at the stage where I was so angry and frustrated that I had to kick something, so it had to be something that wasn't my child!

Suzette - posted on 04/16/2010

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@Kathy, I don't agree with the form(s) of punishment you received such as:

"put over someone's knee (usually mum's) and hit hard on the bum several times with a hairbrush or wooden spoon or mum's hand. Hitting usually meant a hard slap (or more) on the legs or the arms with a hand. At school, we were punished by holding out our hand and getting hit with a ruler or strap."

(Minus the hand part - though I don't agree with the over the knee part.)



I would NOT allow a school, preschool, daycare, whatever to spank my child. They can put them in time out, take privileges away, whatever, but no laying hands on my child. Why is it ok for me and not them? Because I know how I will do things, I don't know how they will. For all I know their form of "spanking" is with a shoe, belt, or some other object, or they will hit hard with their hand whereas I will not. Sorry, I don't trust other people that much when it comes to that. Unless it's a friend of mine that I've personally seen with their own children and I know their disciplining habits well. Even then, I may not feel comfortable. (Yes, I know I'm funny about it.) Same goes for family, including my own mother. Though, like me, she'd rather try to use all other methods first.



"In fact there's still a mark on the kitchen cupboard where I kicked it instead of hitting the child!"

When I was younger and me and my brother would get spanked, we'd much rather have the spanking than to have her kick or hit something. It scared the living crap out of us. I think that has more to do with our biological father than anything though.



The funny thing about the relationship with my mom, it is awesome now... while I was a teenager I hated her. LOL. Though, that's not just because of the teenage girl/mother thing either. There were other issues there, not disciplinary. It was more that I was given incorrect medication by a doctor and I reacted badly. :) I hated the world!



@Valerie:

"I believe (and I am no child psychology expert, my opinion only) that the way in which we discipline is more important than the method. What I mean is that parents must be very consistent with whatever form of discipline they chose whether it be spanking, time outs, taking privileges, etc. Parents CANNOT discipline when they feel like it or when it's convenient. Children MUST have guidelines and know what to expect."

I agree with you, inconsistency is dangerous. We have to find that "niche" with our children, sometimes spanking will be what works, sometimes time outs will be. It all depends on their personality and how they process the information. But if we're inconsistent, well nothing will work.



@ Dana, I also agree with Valerie about you apologizing Dana, it is a great example. :) (And also took some guts!!!)



About the definition... wow. The open hand I expected, as I believe it's the only thing that should be used... but you're right, everyone has a different definition.



On the other hand, people don't agree about a lot of things half the time and they're still allowed to do a lot of things. They've already, in some states (I know AZ for one) made it illegal to hit your child anywhere except on the butt and it MUST be with an open hand and you are not allowed to leave a mark. And that was from when I was 18 years old, or just before I turned 18 if I remember correctly. (Someone we knew got into trouble.)

[deleted account]

Kathy, this is a dictionary definition that I found......

spank1   /spæŋk/ Show Spelled[spangk] Show IPA
–verb (used with object)
1.to strike (a person, usually a child) with the open hand, a slipper, etc., esp. on the buttocks, as in punishment.

Interesting!? For me ' spanking ' refers to smacking a childs bum BUT it is obviously up for interpretation and that's why I have a problem with it.......if EVERYONE can't agree on what it is than I don't think anyone should be able to do it! Where's the line? Who's definition is right? I pray this is a dictionary from the 1800's because I would be appauled if anyone was STILL using a " slipper etc. "......WTF? Open hand, fine! But no other objects.....absolutely NOT!

[deleted account]

Thanks Valerie! That means more to me than you could ever imagine! You're right, it wasn't easy and I'm really proud of myself also! I'm blessed to have had my daughter......I was soo scared at first but as soon as I saw her I had such a sense of peace and calm come over me! I'm also proud to say that I'm confident that I'm nothing like my father........I've learned from his mistakes instead of repeating history! It's a great feeling.......I've actually surprised myself with how I am as a mother! Kids....gotta love 'em!? LOL!

P.S. I just wanted to add that despite everything my father and I went through we've managed to reconcile and we're starting to build a relationship again.......he absolutely adores my daughter and he's wonderful with her.......he's come a long way; totally different person......it's hard to think of him as the same person! Roxanne truly has been a blessing, for my entire family!

Thanks again EVERYONE for listening to me work my shit out online! LMAO! Valerie is my shrink! ;)

Valerie - posted on 04/16/2010

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Dana - if it helps my dad was abused by my grandpa. He never once laid a finger on me, my sister or my mom. It can be done! He became a Christian as did my grandpa and they worked out a ton of issues. You wouldn't be able to tell now if you were to see them together.

I also wanted to say that you have set a fantastic example for all the women here by your ability to stand back, swallow your pride and apologize! That was incredible! We would all benefit from the example you have set and you must be a remarkable mother if you can do that to a bunch of strangers since you obviously will do that for your daughter!

I just wanted to say how touched and inspired I was by that display. As my mom would say, that's truly showing God to others. :)

[deleted account]

OK, just so you know where I'm coming from, my interpretation of spanking is what happened to me as a child - I was put over someone's knee (usually mum's) and hit hard on the bum several times with a hairbrush or wooden spoon or mum's hand. Hitting usually meant a hard slap (or more) on the legs or the arms with a hand. At school, we were punished by holding out our hand and getting hit with a ruler or strap. These I all classify under the heading of corporal punishment. (Corporal punishment has been banned in schools.)

Basically, I'm vehemently against any form of corporal punishment, not only because of the effect on the child, but because of the effect on the person administering the corporal punishment. I think it's too easy to "feel the power" even though you might be a very non-violent person, and would consider corporal punishment as violence. I don't really think it is violence (unless it gets out of control, of course) but I do think it could start us on the track of becoming desensitised to violence.

The corporal punishment I received as a child hasn't done me much harm, although if it had happened lots it might have.

My husband and I decided that we would never use corporal punishment on our children. We used time outs, removal of priveleges etc. In fact there's still a mark on the kitchen cupboard where I kicked it instead of hitting the child! Our girls are grown now and we have a great relationship. They don't have any memories of a mother who used physical punishments, I don't have any memories of abusing my authority by physically hurting them. My eldest daughter has 3 children, and she and her husband have decided not to use corporal punishment.

[deleted account]

I was spanked once (or twice, both parents take credit for the same story...) in my life. I didn't 'need' spankings cuz I never did anything.... then again I never did ANYTHING either... literally.



Long term effect on my kids are hard to say... I wasn't very effective at spanking my girls, so didn't do it very often. Not sure how much effect the ex did or didn't have... They are 8 though and the only people they are aggressive towards would be each other. My son is 2, so no long term anything on him yet. :)

[deleted account]

I admit that I only skimmed all the posts since my last post. But I see something that comes up. Different people were disciplined differently and turned out the same. Or were disciplined the same and turned out different. Some were spanked and behaved well. Some were not and behaved well. Some were spanked and behaved terribly and vice versa.



I believe (and I am no child psychology expert, my opinion only) that the way in which we discipline is more important than the method. What I mean is that parents must be very consistent with whatever form of discipline they chose whether it be spanking, time outs, taking privileges, etc. Parents CANNOT discipline when they feel like it or when it's convenient. Children MUST have guidelines and know what to expect.



I think that consistent bad behavior or sporadic behavior is more the result of inconsistent parents more than the method of discipline they chose. Of course, that statement is not true 100% of the time, as most statements dealing with human behavior are not. But in general, I believe it to be true.



That being said, parents should be at liberty to chose whatever form of discipline works best for their children (within obvious reason). Some kids respond better spankings (I did), some respond better to time outs. You need to find your child's "currency" as I once heard Dr. Phil call it.

Suzette - posted on 04/16/2010

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@Alison L, In response to:
"I am thinking maybe we would do a better job answering the question if we were to discuss how we were disciplined and how that has effected us long term."
Actually, Dana and I went back and forth with this in previous posts. As far as the other comment/question:
"I'm just curious how old everyone's kids are? Can we really be so confident about the effects of our methods of discipline if we are only getting started?"
While it's not exactly long term, I suppose, I can say that my 11 yr old niece (almost anyway) who was spanked (she hasn't been in almost a year now) is doing quite well. No signs of aggression, though she's a smartaleck! (She gets it honestly!) Though after the spankings, she was spoken to about why she was spanked, not just spanked and sent to her room. Now it takes talking, sometimes just a look, and she knows not to do whatever it is she's doing. It doesn't mean she likes it or reacts well, but she stops. Which means that the spanking/talk method worked. And it wasn't like it was a continuous "only spanking" method. It was a last resort method. My little one I can't say for sure. :)

Alison P,
In response to:
"The problem with mentioning the discipline we received growing up is that you get bashed for it. I've seen many many posts on here who bash people for giving the "when I was a kid..." explanation on a variety of issues."
I'm not sure if you mean this thread or if you're referring to others. If you're referring to this thread, I don't believe I've seen any of those posts. I know that I mentioned something to one person, but it wasn't meant as a "bash," it was meant as something entirely different. But I know that person knew that too. As I said, I'm not sure if you meant this thread (or even me lol) or not. :)

[deleted account]

I strongly believe that whether or not someone was spanked, and to what degree they were spanked, plays a very significant role in that person's psyche! Whether you understand it or want to admit it ' spanking ' affects everyone's mind and spirit in some way. Physical aggression from a child or even an adult is only ONE of the ways that these issues might manifest themselves! Bottom line, no one will EVER truly know how ' spanking ' affects another person until it already HAS (past tense) affected them!



That being said, I was spanked as a child which eventually turned into emotional or verbal abuse (IMO) and was followed by more physical ' beatings ' as a teenager once I was old enough to try and stand up for myself! Am I physically abusive toward other people? NOPE! I consider myself passive aggressive and definitely have my fair share of issues! I know my story is extreme and I'm not comparing what happened to me to ANYONE else. I just don't think ANYONE could ever pressume to know or completely understand what another human being went thru......the human mind is sooo complex! Just because a child doesn't show signs of aggression doesn't mean the ' spankings ' or ' abuse ' in MY CASE don't or haven't manifested themselves in other less obvious ways! You just never know.....



Thanks and I hope that makes sense!?

[deleted account]

@Alison & LaCi. The problem with mentioning the discipline we received growing up is that you get bashed for it. I've seen many many posts on here who bash people for giving the "when I was a kid..." explanation on a variety of issues. Buy yes, when I was a kid we got the odd spanking. We also got grounded, given extra chores and lost privileges. All of these methods of discipline were OK and none of us are emotionally scarred or aggressive.

[deleted account]

I'm fine with the fact that it was misinterpreted. I'm not fine with you saying I said something that I didn't. k, I'm done now :)

C. - posted on 04/16/2010

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@Sara.. I'm the only one that said something TO YOU.. But trust me, I'm not the only one that thought it. I know that for a fact. Perhaps little blue birds told me.. But, you know all.. Now drop it, dang. This is rather annoying.. Can't you get over the fact that a few people misinterpreted your post? NOBODY IS PERFECT. Get over it.





@Alison.. I do that, too! I do that when I hold my son and when I set him down I give him a little pat on the butt as if to tell him to go on his merry little way. And my husband.. Well, I haven't been able to do that for a while.. But he's coming home soon!!!!!!!!... ;)



I think if you are confident in your parenting methods it will help you out and you'll be more successful than if you were to go into it not knowing much about it and kind of winging it as you go.

LaCi - posted on 04/16/2010

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I think its good to bring up how we were raised. It's true, I'm just starting, so the long term effects of what I am doing are up in the air.



One reason I think spanking or not spanking has little effect on future behavior is because while I was spanked, my cousin was not, and we both ended up VERY similar, we did the same things, although she was a little more wild than me-only because she was a little more confident than me, we still think the same, and we still do similar things. not spanking her didn't make her any different than me, spanking me didn't make me any different than her. What we turn out to be has so many more factors than how we were disciplined as children. We got into the same trouble, we had the same grades, we were/are interested in similar things with completely different punishments.

Lady - posted on 04/16/2010

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My kids actually like me smaking their bums, they think it's great fun and stick it out to me and then like me chasing them round the house, they have been smacked for disipline but like I said earlier very rarely. I prefer time outs, removing privaleges and a good stern talking too (which they probably hate the most). Even my 1 year old thinks it's funny getting his bum smaked but of course he's never been smacked in any other way other than for fun.

Amanda - posted on 04/16/2010

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lol i smack my sons butt all the time... i love lil kids butts haha... that sounds wierd... but whatever... i pinch his butt and stuff all the time haha i love giving him raspberries on his belly too lol

[deleted account]

I reread the posts and yes you were the only one.



Alison, I know what you mean. I pat my daughter on her bottom when I'm holding her sometimes as a sign of affection.

Alison - posted on 04/16/2010

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As I read through more posts, here are some of my thoughts...



I'm just curious how old everyone's kids are? Can we really be so confident about the effects of our methods of discipline if we are only getting started? After all, our goal is a long term one. The goal is not compliance, but rather character-training. (at least that's MY goal)



I am thinking maybe we would do a better job answering the question if we were to discuss how we were disciplined and how that has effected us long term.



On a side-note... Am I the only one who likes to smack my girls (and my man) on the butt as a sign of affection? My girls actually like it. With my hubby it's sort of a game, where I try to smack him hard enough to get a reaction out of him, but usually I end up hurting my hand...

C. - posted on 04/16/2010

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@Sara.. First, that was very rude. I don't "rub people the wrong way" on purpose. And no, Sara, I am not the only one that felt like you were calling spankers barbarians (or at least very violent, but to me there's not much of a difference). But believe what you want b/c you are always right, Sara. You've never, ever written something that could be misunderstood. /sarcasm

And if you would READ my post, I said that the people that I have met were like that and I even stated "That's not to say that ALL the people who were never spanked are like that and not ALL the people who were spanked are, either. That's just been my experience".

And yes, I do believe people should base a lot of things on personal experience.. B/c after all, what works for one person, may not work for the next. Just b/c it didn't work in a study that you read (a very biased study at that), doesn't mean anything. If you know how to spank and do it properly, your kid will turn out just fine. I don't believe in only reading and not actually knowing b/c there are studies out there for and against spanking. You just have to know where to look to find your side of the debate to back up your argument.

I will say it again, b/c you obviously didn't get this the first time.. I am done with this back and forth nonsense that is going on.. It is irrelevant to this debate and really quite childish. Just accept the fact that some people took your post wrong b/c *GASP* nobody is perfect.. And MOVE ON.

[deleted account]

lol, no Christina, it only came off that way to you. It's funny that you're accusing me of this when you're the queen of rubbing people the wrong way (intentionally or at least that's how I read it). I wasn't spanked. I don't drink. I don't party and never did either of those things when I was younger. A lot of the people I know that were spanked did those things. I don't think we can use our own observations because they will vary greatly.

April - posted on 04/16/2010

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i don't think spanking is very effective. i don't believe in it for my child. I also think it distracts children from why they were spanked in the first place because they're so busy feeling sorry for themselves.

C. - posted on 04/16/2010

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@Sara.. You may not realize how you are wording things that could be misinterpreted, but that is how it came off to several people, including myself. Maybe take a step back and put how you know you meant it aside and then read it. It came off as calling spankers barbarians and violent.. That's not how proper spankers are. That's how child abusers are. But, whatever.. I'm done with this arguing back and forth with you.. It's nonsense. Just accept that your post can be- AND has been- misinterpreted due to your wording as I accept that it wasn't how you meant it to sound. Goodness..





@The group.. Of the people I have known throughout my life that have NOT been spanked as a child.. They were MORE aggressive than those that WERE spanked as a child.. AND they were the ones that were the huge partiers and got wasted and high ALL.The.Time! Not just the occasional drunk/high phase that so many people go through. But literally all the time! They had (and some of them STILL have) a terrible work ethic and go from job to job within a matter of months and they are very slack with their work b/c they have no self-discipline and no pride in what they do.. The ones that were spanked (that I have met) were the ones that had the best grades in school, had much better work ethic (for instance, staying at a job for a year or more at a time Vs. a month or two at a time, they actually did their job and didn't slack on anything) and are some of the nicest people I have met (maybe b/c they have more discipline in their lives that started at an early age? Not exactly sure, but that's the way I see it.)



Also, a more recent event involving YOUNG children and a pre-teen.. When we were in HI, we knew this family.. They didn't believe in spanking their children. Their kids ran around cursing at people, even strangers, giving people the finger, even strangers, and hitting each other for no reason.



Now, I'm just spit-ballin' here, but do ya think that could be b/c they weren't being disciplined?? A spanking or two in their lifetimes would have probably done them good! At least maybe helped with their manners..



That's not to say that ALL the people who were never spanked are like that and not ALL the people who were spanked are, either. That's just been my experience.. And to me, experience is better than some stupid study (yes, I said it.) Most studies (like the spanking studies) are gone into with a biased opinion anyway, and most of those studies always come out with the observer's exact opinion on the matter as the result. Hmm.. I wonder why that would be.. That's why so many people end up going by their own experience with it. If someone was beaten or spanked improperly as a child, they're not going to want to spank their own kid.. If someone was spanked properly as a child and has no emotional issues from it, it is likely that they may spank when they become parents as well.



No matter what some of you non-spankers say or feel like saying, just b/c us spankers spank our children when it is necessary, it does not make us bad parents or child abusers in any way.

[deleted account]

They took natural aggressive behavior into account:



"The odds of a child being more aggressive at age 5 if he had been spanked more than twice in the month before the study began increased by 50%," says Taylor. And because her group also accounted for varying levels of natural aggression in children, the researchers are confident that "it's not just that children who are more aggressive are more likely to be spanked."



What they considered aggressive:

"Compared with children who were not hit, those who were spanked were more likely to be defiant, demand immediate satisfaction of their wants and needs, get frustrated easily, have temper tantrums and lash out physically against others."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20100412/hl...

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