The "Heartbeat Bill"

[deleted account] ( 182 moms have responded )

Ok, ok..I know I'm opening a can of worms here, but I found this really shocking. I never thought I would see anything like this. This is in my home state of Ohio. A lawmaker is trying to ban abortions after the heartbeat is detected. The heartbeat can be detected as early as 18 days after conception. I don't know a lot of the details like if there are exceptions for life-threatening situations. Thoughts?



http://tinyurl.com/46rmwnm



(link is edited so hopefully it works-Thanks Alison!)







*runs for cover* :)

MOST HELPFUL POSTS

Sharon - posted on 02/12/2011

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Clara - you have a real knack for picking and choosing what you want to respond to and a very odd selective definition for the terms of this debate.

The bill is a joke. It doesn't address a single important thing to those who need/want the abortions. From other, more comprehensive, less hysterical debates, I gather the bill doesn't make any allowances for medical need, or legal emotional well being.

Like many others here - I don't believe the fetus is a viable human being until much later in the pregnancy. A 7th month abortion is just ludicrous (in the case of gianna jessen). Especially with todays technology.

My thought on late term abortion is that if you haven't decided by the third trimester, you aren't mentally prepared for an abortion. 3rd trimester abortions SHOULD be illegal. At that point you're giving birth anyway - why not just give birth and put the baby up for adoption?

I'm a firm believer in the choice for abortion. We were faced with that decision and based on the outcome of tests we decided we would go through with it if the tests were all bad.

We didn't want to. But faced with the imminent suffering our child, the loss of income to our home and other children, we thought it was in the best interest all around to not give birth a baby with likely brain damage and heart defects.

How would we give equal attention and opportunites to our existing children if all our money, time & efforts went to saving the life of a child that couldn't even DEFINE LIFE?

Nope. Abortion is a necessity for some people and some cases and I don't trust teh government to properly define it for me.

April - posted on 02/10/2011

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ATM i am living in a country where abortion is illegal, and to be honest it makes me sad to see the lengths some women go to get rid of their unwanted pregnancy's. They use pills that they obtain illegally, they find doctors who will perform this highly illegal surgery and pay a fortune and if all else fails they try to get themselves into accidents hoping to induce a miscarriage. Many women die here due to that and no matter what anyone thinks, making abortion illegal will just result in underground surgeries and people will die from that. I honestly think that if it's your body, it's your choice and NOBODY has the right to take that away from you.

Kate CP - posted on 02/09/2011

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So...you'd leave your existing children motherless for a fetus?

Ramona - posted on 02/15/2011

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Clara, when you rate my posts about babies withdrawing from drugs as "funny" and then write me anonymous messages with poor grammar and punctuation telling me how you don't care what I think, I am inclined to think you not only care what I think, but are a little mentally ill. You are not helping your cause.

Shana - posted on 02/15/2011

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I grew up knowing theq awful things parents who don't want there kids do to them. My mother works for DCFS and hearing the stories of how unwanted children are treated is disgusting. I'm pro choice and believe in the right that women have the right to make a decision about ones life. I speak from a side that personally knows of children that have been mistreated and neglected. I also personally know of someone who had to make a choice of abortion. Just to share a little of her story. we were both preggers at the same time. and during the second trimester of her pregnancy her baby started to develop wrong. The doctors had to tell her that her babies organs were growing on the outside of her stomach and if she carried the baby to full term she would have to see her baby deformed and still born. she made the decision to abort the baby which was hard for her, but she told me that she knew it would be more devastating to her to actually see her child dead and deformed. I know she is one of the strongest women I know because she made a decision to not only protect herself but to end the suffering of her child. she is now blessed with twins. I know abortion is a heated topic but I would hate to think of how a child's life would be if born to parents who didn't it.

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Sally - posted on 03/26/2013

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If you don't have a problem with rape or theft--well your body your choice. Oh, someone else gets hurt? How do you think the murdered baby feels?
What's so magic about breathing air that it magically makes you worth not killing. Especially, since it's not all that uncommon for an aborted baby to come out breathing and be killed after it was "born". That's why abortionists started tearing them up inside the womb before pulling them out in pieces. Sure, it causes more blood loss and more chance of complications, but when you're okay with killing one person, why would risk of damaging another bother you.
Child abuse and neglect have gone up by quite large numbers since abortion was made legal. You can never really prove why, but it's strongly theorized that devaluing life doesn't magically stop when that life becomes semi-independent.
You had a choice to keep your legs closed and you couldn't be bothered. You shouldn't get to kill an innocent human being because you're too pathetic to take responsibility for your actions.

Julia - posted on 03/19/2013

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Ok let's put this another way. I dated and screened potential husbands very carefully. I ensured I picked a man that was a good God fearing man who would be a good husband and father. Unfortunately I made a mistake he turned out to be a chronic cheat of the Tiger Woods variety. Can I kill him? After all we all make mistakes and shouldn't choosing who I share custody of my precious child with be part if my womanly choice? Does this sound ridiculous? It should (and I hope at least a few other single mommy's got a chuckle out of it too :) As a woman this is what the my body my choice argument sounds like to me. There is no shortage of birth control options in today's day and age. Use it, be responsible and if your not either accept the consequences or give the baby up for adoption. I think all this choice stuff is just a selfish way to have ones cake and eat it too! Ok many years ago when being a single mom was much more stigmatized and birth control was not widely available I can understand women's fear and concern (doesn't mean I think it is right) but in today's day and age legalized abortion is a tremendous and terrible commentary on people's selfishness and lack of respect for life and others. A society that condones such a terrible thing as the murder of babies for its own convenience is unfortunately a society I fear for.

Julia - posted on 03/19/2013

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Johnny. Omg. Sorry I marked ur post as funny (when there was already controversy over an inappropriatly funny post marking). Totally scrolling quickly on a touch screen and hit it by accident. Please pardon :)

Jaime - posted on 04/30/2011

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Candyce you're looking at this situation from a very narrow scope. It's not as simple as 'someone fucked up and instead of taking on the responsibitlity they killed their baby'...there are so many more factors than that. I recommend that you go back and read all of the comments that have been made on this thread and truly consider BOTH sides of this argument before making base statements like; "Just because two people, or even one person, fucked up doesn't give you the right to kill an innocent baby over it."

Candyce - posted on 04/29/2011

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I've been reading a few things and thinking... So what, we have sexual urges - TRUE! We're adults - TRUE! A child sometimes results from sexual intercourse - TRUE! Instead of using protection or curbing our urges, we kill our children - TRUE! Something's wrong with that picture. I don't know about anyone else, but I most definitely have the sense to keep my legs closed if I'm not prepared to raise a child. I don't deserve act on that *privilege* if i can't support the likely result. Yes, I had a child that was unwanted AT THE TIME. But I couldn't even imagine life without him now. And now that I'm unable to have children with my husband, I would love to take in as many other "unwanted" children as possible. Just because two people, or even one person, fucked up doesn't give you the right to kill an innocent baby over it. WTF?!?!?!??!

Blessed Be

Julianne - posted on 04/29/2011

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all for it! a heart beat means a life. and abortion is killing a life. if you dont want the baby there are lots of people who would love that child.

Momof1 - posted on 04/29/2011

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To me, a baby is alive at conception, so any time in the pregnancy abortion is killing a life.

Jaime - posted on 02/15/2011

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I just keep cycling back in my head to the thought of abortion being outlawed altogether and what would result from that. I'm inclined to think that (as has been mentioned) people will seek illegal abortions as a result of feeling desperate and ultimately helpless. If abortion were outlawed completely and every single pregnant woman on the planet was heavily monitored to ensure she was properly cared for and her baby is, in fact, born...what happens next? Where do all these unwanted babies go? Straight into foster care? Straight onto the welfare system that their mother is currently on? I am currently waiting to get on a waiting list for child care subsidy...so I can only imagine what will happen to the social assistance programs if there is an influx of babies bombarding the system. Abstinence is never a reliable option because as much as we'd like to believe that everyone is capable of indefinite celibacy...I just don't think it's possible. We are innately sexual, which means our bodies react and respond to different hormone signals. But much more than that, society has constructed the ideal that emotional connection is in direct relation to our sexual urges...thus our need for a partner not only for the purpose of procreation, but to form a deeper, more intense, intimate bond. As I previously mentioned, masturbation is going to do the trick...but is it really? We can wax poetic all day about the benefits of self pleasure...but I doubt there is a single one of us that isn't eventually going to want to share that intimate experience with another human at some point. This is my gripe about the pro-life stance. There is no consideration for the impact or consequences of an unwanted pregnancy to the greater society (let alone the immediate impact on the potential mother/parents). There only ever seems to be consideration for the fact that abortion is the essential end to a 'life' and it is wrong no matter the reason. Abortion isn't good and it sure as hell ain't a walk in the park, but given what we know about our own human nature, and the likelihood of a perfect society that is fully educated and aware of the overall risks of an unplanned pregnancy, then abortion is always always always going to be the lesser of two evils.

Amber - posted on 02/15/2011

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i dare you to find me a vibrator that is as handsome as my husband ;) i just wouldn't enjoy looking at it as much...

Jaime - posted on 02/14/2011

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I'm involuntarily celibate and me no likey! Two years without sexual contact with another person is a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time. But on a more serious note, I don't like the idea of indefinite abstinence because person to person contact is a much greater part of the sexual experience. And it's not even just the contact, but all of it. The conversation, the connection, the emotional support of having another adult in your presence to talk with and make love to. The majority of humans need that. Doesn't have to amount to a monogamous relationship because I think that friends with benefits can even reach that platform. But abstinence is just not a realistic option based on the fact that we are sexual beings, and most of us rely emotionally on that sexual contact. Masturbation gets the job done...but I don't know many people who have intimate conversations with their vibrators..just throwing that out there :P

Johnny - posted on 02/14/2011

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Sorry Lisa. In another debate where population came up another poster was saying stuff like that seriously. Suggesting that basically people who want to limit population just want to come and kill her kids off. My bad, I should have known better. You're not crazy!

Jodi - posted on 02/14/2011

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Hmmmm, this then gets really complicated once you start blending families.......

In our situations, my hubby had one each with his two exes, I had one with my ex. Neither of us had the second until we had one together, but between us we have 4 children, 3 of which are shared with other people, 2 of whom have SINCE had other children, one of whom should be sterilised and never be allowed to ever have another child, but that's another story.....

But yeah, could get complicated :D

Johnny - posted on 02/14/2011

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What possible reason could we have for outlawing vaccinations? That's ridiculous and has nothing to do with people making a conscious CHOICE not to overpopulate.

Are you suggesting that there are a lot of people who use abortion as birth control Teresa?

Charlie - posted on 02/14/2011

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On a side note : People who mark other peoples posts as "funny" for any other reason other than it actually being intended as funny are lame morons ........ the real laugh is on them and the fact the person KNOWS who marked their post , really it is against COM rules and can be reported .

Minnie - posted on 02/14/2011

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Maybe we should outlaw vaccination programs!



Eeep!



Someone should start a debate on Overpopulation. Not me because I never start threads. :P

Charlie - posted on 02/14/2011

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One of the reasons we are choosing not to have any more children is for environmental reasons such as overpopulation and finite resources being consumed faster than it can be produced .

Johnny - posted on 02/14/2011

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No one is suggesting that you should be forcibly sterilized and have your extra child killed. You have every right to make choices that harm the planet, all of us do it on a daily basis. This one just happens to do a bit more damage than not recycling or drving a gas guzzler. Sadly, too much "miraculous life" will absolutely kill the planet.

Abortions shouldn't be used as a birth control method ever, and I doubt you'll find many people out there who think that they should. But since for MOST people not having sex isn't an option and sometimes the best laid plans go awry, we shouldn't be bringing unwanted kids into this world. No matter how many pro-life people say that they are wanted, there is no line up of them planning to care for those kids, even now.

And Teresa, I couldn't care less about married or unmarried, for a lot of people, even those who aren't wed, abstinence isn't a realistic option. That doesn't solely applied to those with rings on their fingers.

Isobel - posted on 02/14/2011

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Just like it's my right to refuse to recycle, to drink nothing but bottled water, and to drive a Hummer.

[deleted account]

I have never once said that sex should only be for procreation. When that was assumed of me by what I said.... I did clarify that wasn't what I meant. I said that sex was designed to be w/ one mate for life.... Yes, I used the term mating.. that was my mistake and I said that.

I didn't say that you couldn't choose sex... just that not choosing sex CAN be an option.... and I said it wasn't a realistic option for a married couple.

I'm not telling anyone they can't have sex. Just sharing my belief and my feelings on abortion. Life isn't perfect. The world isn't perfect. Crap happens. I get that. I just don't feel that abortion is or should ever be a legitimate option. I KNOW I'm in the minority on that and I'm ok w/ this.

Isobel - posted on 02/14/2011

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Of course you should have the right to...doesn't mean it's a good idea

Johnny - posted on 02/14/2011

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I'm with Jenny on that one. The only responsible choice is one child per parent. As Laura said, two kids for a couple. Anything more will just contribute to destroying the planet more.

Johnny - posted on 02/14/2011

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First off, who the hell is the pervert marking Krista & Amber's stories as funny. You are one sick puppy. I guess for you the pain and agony of a living adult woman is nothing compared to the loss of an unborn child. But how you can find it "funny" is beyond me.

@ Teresa. Yes women have control over their own bodies and many of us choose to have sex. We don't want to be abstinent. Many of us wil take great efforts to avoid pregnancy, but sometimes it just doesn't work. My parents have friends who got pregnant 12 years after his vasectomy, which he didn't bother having reversed when he remarried becaue the wife (he was her 2nd husband as well) had been diagnosed as completely infertile years before during her first marriage. Suddenly, at age 47, she was pregnant. In there case they kept her, because she had always wanted children, but it was a very difficult experience for them. Now she's an out of control 13 year old with 60 year old parents. Had they not wanted a baby, going through a difficult pregnancy when you thought you were about to start menopause might not have been the kind of situation that could easily lead a woman to choose to have an abortion.

I guess if you think sex should ONLY be for the puroposes of procreation, YOU should abstain unless you want a child. I don't believe that at all, and I certainly don't plan on ever choosing abstinence.

Isobel - posted on 02/14/2011

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Which a lot of people believe in because the planet is over populated and there simply are not enough resources for the people we have let alone an exponential population increase.

Jenny - posted on 02/14/2011

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No offense Teresa but that's real easy for a single person to say. However, that would not fly at my house. I should have said feasible option.

You know what though, even if I was single and chose to have sex at my whim it doesn't matter. I do not equate consenting to sex to consenting to parenthood. Yes I know sex causes babies but this is the 21st century, we have options now.

Isobel - posted on 02/14/2011

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Canadian Geese are monogamous but when they did DNA testing they found that 15% of goslings were not the genetic off-spring of the male in the mated pair...so cheating is as natural as monogamy.

Amber - posted on 02/14/2011

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yeah, i don't think i could do it, being married. but not being married, yeah totally. i don't know if i would keep the baby or not, i really don't, but i wouldnt get my tubes tied. apparently that's a horrendous experience.

[deleted account]

In that instance I would keep the baby. If the vasectomy failed.... I'd get my tubes tied as well.

Not having sex IS an option. Maybe not one that you or a million other women would choose, but it very much IS an option and it doesn't have to be the wrong one. I am, obviously, NOT speaking about married couples when I say that. Funny how you can say that women have control over their bodies, but that not having sex is not an option.......

Jenny - posted on 02/14/2011

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We women are not breeding factories. We have options now and not having sex is not one of them. We are so lucky to live in areas where we have control over our own bodies and I, for one, would fight to the bitter end to protect that right for my daughter too. There is no wrong reason to abort in my books so long as it's not forced or otherwise influunced by outside forces. If you don't want to raise a human until they are capable of taking care of themselves don't bring it into the world in the first place.



And until all of the adoption agencies are empty, I will not be contributing to overpopulation in any fashoin.

Amber - posted on 02/14/2011

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yes actually i'm curious...i wonder what would happen if my husband had a vasectomy after this baby, and we continued to make love, in the sanctity of our marriage, for years and years and then one day i end up pregnant. apparently vasectomy can fail, very rarely but it has been known to happen. i don't know if i would have an abortion or not in this case, because it would be completely different from my previous situation where that decision was made. but i might. i don't know...should i have stopped making love to my husband even though we had the vasectomy done? and should i keep that baby, even though we were under the impression that we were no longer having ANY more children? i'm not trying to be contradicting or rude, i just want to know what you think! :)

Krista - posted on 02/14/2011

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Ridiculous to you, perhaps. But everybody is different, and just because you would choose option A in a given situation, you can't assume that someone else in a similar situation should make the exact same choice. There will always be variables, and there will always be things that we DON'T know (and that frankly, are none of our damn business) that might lead a woman to terminate a pregnancy.

And Teresa, I can understand how you would promote abstinence for those who are not married.

What about for those who ARE, however?

Amber - posted on 02/14/2011

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.....oh. well, i wasn't actually 'findng reasons' i was just telling my story and saying that it isn't always black & white when it comes to the choice to abort. i wasn't looking for absolution or for someone to tell me that i did right. i'm comfortable with my decision. curiously though, why does that make me ridiculous?

Amber - posted on 02/14/2011

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That sucks :( Unfortunately abstinance isn't an option for me because i love sex with my husband, which is why after this baby is born he will be having a vasectomy. then *fingers crossed that THAT works lol* no suprises [this one was planned] five years down the road. i don't want any more babies after this, but i won't ever stop making love to the man i married. i probably could have and should have not had sex if i didn't want to get pregnant, sure, and that isn't an excuse for what i did. no, i would never say it wasn't MY fault or something i HAD to do, because technically i didn't HAVE to have an abortion. but it was for the best. how could anyone ever place blame for an abortion? it is a choice only YOU can make for YOUR body. obviously that person you speak of, Teresa, had ill feelings about the abortion and felt very guilty and wrong, and they didn't get the proper therapy or whatever that could have helped them cope. some people can't handle the aftermath, because it is brutal for most people. or maybe it turned out to be the wrong choice for her. either way, i feel bad for her :( to blame someone else for a choice she made is the act of a person desperate to absolve their own guilt.

[deleted account]

Long (well, not that long), private story that I shouldn't have even mentioned that much of.... I didn't even know about the abortion until several months after it had happened though.

LaCi - posted on 02/14/2011

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"I'm sorry. I've had a woman choose to have an abortion and blame ME for her choice, so this whole topic is one I should just learn to stay away from"

What?? How did that happen?

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