The "Heartbeat Bill"

[deleted account] ( 182 moms have responded )

Ok, ok..I know I'm opening a can of worms here, but I found this really shocking. I never thought I would see anything like this. This is in my home state of Ohio. A lawmaker is trying to ban abortions after the heartbeat is detected. The heartbeat can be detected as early as 18 days after conception. I don't know a lot of the details like if there are exceptions for life-threatening situations. Thoughts?



http://tinyurl.com/46rmwnm



(link is edited so hopefully it works-Thanks Alison!)







*runs for cover* :)

182 Comments

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[deleted account]

Long (well, not that long), private story that I shouldn't have even mentioned that much of.... I didn't even know about the abortion until several months after it had happened though.

LaCi - posted on 02/14/2011

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"I'm sorry. I've had a woman choose to have an abortion and blame ME for her choice, so this whole topic is one I should just learn to stay away from"

What?? How did that happen?

[deleted account]

Amber.. I feel for your situation. I've known women who were so sick they literally could not get out of bed for half (at least) their pregnancies and were hospitalized several times.

THAT would be why I mentioned abstinence though. Unfortunately not enough people see that as a reasonable option when you are not married. And yes, I KNOW birth control fails even when you are married.

I'm sorry. I've had a woman choose to have an abortion and blame ME for her choice, so this whole topic is one I should just learn to stay away from.

Amber - posted on 02/14/2011

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oh yes, i forgot to mention in regards to my story...i have to have a stitch put into my cervix in order to carry a baby, and i am on bed rest for 6 months and cannot work. how much fun would that have been being a single mom of a two year old not even being able to run to the store without risking going into labor or losing the baby? that would have been an abortion in itself...i wouldn't have been able to do the necessary thing in order to keep that baby inside of me anyways. geeze, my first son almost fell out at 19 weeks LOL i had to have my cervix stitched shut then as an emergency. now i have it put in early...believe me, my pregnancies are anything but easy. abortion isn't always about a woman 'not wanting' her baby. it's about not being able to care for it, under any circumstances. i don't believe that it should be used as birth control howver. some women really are sick, i've heard many stories where some women have 5 or 6 abortions just because they couldn't be bothered to use protection. ugh.

Minnie - posted on 02/14/2011

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While we're at the animal planet interesting facts: most higher primates use sex for other purposes than procreation, and most are not monogamous.

Charlie - posted on 02/14/2011

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Apparently 90 % of birds are monogamous while only 7 percent of mammals practice monogamy naturally .

[deleted account]

I was just thinking that! i think i can only think of one animal that is monogamous by nature and that would be the penguin.

Charlie - posted on 02/14/2011

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Monogamy is culturally and morally ingrained in us but we are biologically polygamous :)

[deleted account]

I was just going to put the whole do you eat meat or kill bug analogy in there but i was beat to it..... lucky i kept reading.

My 1st child i would nevr ever in a million years think about abortion but sebsequent children and circumstance i would consider it if i had to.

[deleted account]

I didn't mean our sole purpose in sex was for mating.... but I did mean we were designed to share that w/ only one person for life. ;)

No Krista, it wasn't a funny story, so whoever marked it as funny definitely has an issue.... or two. It does follow several similarities to my own life story except I would've had to give my son up for adoption since abortion is illegal at 8 months. I've had many, many, many 'what the heck am I doing and how is this ever going to work? thoughts, but my son saved my life and I wouldn't change any of it.

Sharon - posted on 02/13/2011

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Krista - If I were in that womans' situation today - I'd abort. I wouldn't think twice. I'd get rid of it and sure as hell my thoughts wouldn't be on some other woman who couldn't have a baby.

I have 3 kids and a new job. Pregnancy lays me out. I'm sick and heaving the entire time. I'm in the hospital constantly to be rehydrated.

Oh hell no. I'm married with 3 kids and a house that is nearly paid off but I still wouldn't bring another child into this world at this point.

and I didn't think your story was funny either.

Lise - posted on 02/13/2011

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I am personally against abortion. I haven't read all these posts - just the first few pages - but I think that abortion is a sad situation. I read people saying it's ok because people made dumb mistakes, because of unemployment rates, etc. If you are mature enough to have sex, you should be mature enough to deal with the potential consequences. My husband and I were married 5 years before getting pregnant, and weren't ready before that... But had I gotten pregnant, we would have dealt with it.

Personally, after seeing my daughter in a 10 week ultrasound, there is NO ONE who can convince me that she was "just a fetus" - she was absolutely a little life.

Krista - posted on 02/13/2011

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Odd...I didn't think the story I just related was particularly funny.



Someone has a very unusual sense of humour, methinks.

[deleted account]

for lack of a stable partner i don't have sex! do i want another child? yes? but do you know how hard it is for a 22 year old single female with a child already to adopt? impossible! and its so expensive in australia to do it as well! I'd rather go and get IVF it's covered on my health insurance ( i only have to pay the $300 excess) and bob's your uncle (well he's my uncle but I could share him if you want)

Ramona - posted on 02/13/2011

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Johnny: You know where all those desperate people are? Receiving fertility treatments to bring more children into the world, which is fine, but all those loving homesfor adopted children no longer exist for this reason. So many foster kids are thrown away...it's sad.

Teresa, since your opinion makes sense and isn't propaganda but more about your personal feelings, no one (at least me) thinks less of you for it.

Kate CP - posted on 02/13/2011

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Teresa: Absinthe is a licorice liquor that is bright green. The traditional drink included wormwood which can have hallucinogenic properties in VERY large quantities. The traditional preparation is 1 oz of absinthe in a glass and ice cold water was poured over a sugar cube and into the liquor. There are other methods of preparation (including soaking the sugar cube in liquor and lighting it on fire). It is illegal in the United States and several other countries to sell absinthe with wormwood in it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absinthe

Anywho...back to the topic. ;)

[deleted account]

Teresa - you're wrong! humans and dolphins are the only mamals who have sex for pleasure not soley for mating...we were actually put on this earth to do both

Krista - posted on 02/13/2011

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We just never know what will happen to us, though.

I was once reading stories of women who'd had abortions. There was one story that really stuck with me, just because it was the exact opposite of what you'd imagine as your "typical" abortion story.

There was this woman who had three children. She'd done everything "right": she waited until marriage to have sex, was a SAHM, she was faithful to her husband, she was a good mother. She'd had very difficult pregnancies -- for the last one, she was on complete bedrest from the 6th month on.

When her youngest was 10 months old, her husband walked out on her.

No warning, no signs it was coming. He'd met someone else and that was it: he was never coming back.

The kids were devastated. She was devastated. She had no idea how she was going to keep the roof over her kids' heads and food on the table. Her oldest was acting out by getting in fights and stealing. Her middle child was having screaming nightmares every night.

A week later, she found out she was pregnant.

So, here she was, not knowing how she was going to feed the three kids she had, and running herself absolutely ragged trying to be there for her kids' emotional needs during that horrid time. She was already giving most of her mental and physical energy to the kids, and was using the rest to deal with all of the draining bullshit that comes with a divorce.

A pregnancy would have incapacitated her. It would have drawn her focus away from her kids, who desperately needed her. And another child would have strained her already desperate finances.

So, she terminated. It made her very sad, but she had to keep her focus on the kids she already HAD.

Not everybody would have made that choice. I don't know if I would have made that choice.

But I can understand why she would have.

[deleted account]

Actually we are designed to marry and mate w/ one person for life, but that's a 'crazy pipe dream' in society as well....

Johnny - posted on 02/13/2011

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Thank you for sharing that Amber. It took a lot of guts and I hope that maybe, just maybe, people can look for just a moment beyond their own tiny little world to imagine what things are like for someone else. In my life up to this point, I could never imagine aborting a baby, but things change and life has a habit of going sideways. I tend to believe, and I think that Amber's post points to this as well, that life isn't always the right choice. I have actually known people who have actually seriously wished that their parents had aborted them. They were never loved, supported and cared for like a child should be, and have lived lives of utter misery because their parents chose life when they couldn't really follow through and provide even a half decent version.

And you are right, adoption is put out there like it's some realistic alternative and that there are millions of potential loving homes just waiting to be filled with children. It's certainly not the case here. Two of my friends adopted an infant a couple years ago, at the same time I was having my daughter. It was a local adoption, they requested a newborn girl (no other preferences). The first adoption fell through because the birth grandparents found out that they were gay and terminated. The second adoption went through. From start of process to the day they had that little girl in their arms took less than 10 months. Almost as little as it took me to have a baby myself. They said that there wasn't much of a waiting list and they were really shocked with how easy it was. They are expecting to have a brother for her some time this year, also locally. Our neighbors (Chinese) just adopted a little girl from China, and the agency and orphanage was begging them to take 2 kids. They even offered a discount to get them to do it. I wonder where all those desperate people are dreaming of adopting....

Having been a social worker in the child protection field, I saw plenty of unwanted kids. The idea of having more of them running around out there is absolutely terrifying, and just breaks my heart. I do think that aborting takes a life, and I've seen too much to not be okay with that.

As for everyone practicing abstinence, that is simply a crazy pipe dream predicated on a false idea that we are actually all able to control our desire to mate. Most aren't, we are not designed to. I never plan to give up sex purposefully, I don't want to and see no reason to do so. I will try my very best to avoid having more kids, when we're done my hubby will get snipped and if I was to be with other guys, I would get done too, but stop having sex, NEVER!!!!

[deleted account]

I don't even have a clue what that is...... ;)

I know people don't like the abstinence only stressed education, but birth control FAILS and I will never, ever, ever be ok w/ the concept of abortion.... no matter what the story. I know that makes me 'cold and judgemental' or whatever, but the thought sickens me. Not more or less than the stories of abused or murdered babies/children, so please nobody put words in my mouth on that. Yes, abortion is the 'lesser of two evils' in those situations, but the key word (to me at least) IS evil. :(

I don't mean that to be insensitive towards anyone that has already made that choice, so please don't take it as that. I do know people IRL who have made that choice and I most certainly don't think less of them as people by me knowing that.

Oh.... I don't know. Rambling again. Sorry.

[deleted account]

Teresa - I read that as "I love Absinthe" at first and I was about to say "I do too but it seems to reduce the effect of the pill...and a condom somehow" at least thats what i noted from my first pregnancy

[deleted account]

I just realised I must be a real pro-choicer! I kill bugs eat meat and hell even kill my own meat (I live part time on the fam bam's cattle station) but I did recently save a stray calf from the chopping block...idk guess i have soft spot somewhere

Kate CP - posted on 02/13/2011

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Okay, a pain reaction has nothing to do with cognitive thought. As long as animal or human has a functioning spinal cord there will be a response to pain. It's a normal response. Even people in vegetative states have pain response and light response and they are just NOT THERE. When the brain and the brain stem dies (brain death) or isn't formed is when all communication ceases and you DON'T get a pain response. Even babies born without a brain (anacephaly: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anencephaly) have a pain response. So the idea that "Oh, the fetus can feel pain so it's cognitive of it's surroundings!" is false. It can feel pain and respond to it because it has a functioning nervous system. Nothing more.

LaCi - posted on 02/13/2011

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"To be honest, I think there would be more abortions...because if you think about the list I just put up, the only part of that equation that can be removed to save time is THINKING ABOUT YOUR DECISION...I think a lot of girls will end up jumping for the abortion simply BECAUSE they have to make the decision immediately and one option won't be available next week."

That's a really good point. I hadn't even thought about that. Had I had to make that decision in like the first week I found out I was pregnant, I wouldn't be a mom

Amber - posted on 02/13/2011

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okay, this is pretty intense eh ladies? lol!
clara told her little stories, so i'm going to throw one out there. for the other side of the spectrum.
let me begin my saying that i am pro-choice. for everything in life, not just abortion.
i got pregnant [on birth control, but apparently accidents don't happen according to some people]
when i was 17 and i have one beautiful little boy. when he was two i got pregnant again
[i was on the patch] and didn't even realize i was pregnant until i was 10 weeks along. i didn't
find out i was pregnant with my first until 8 weeks, because i had gotten my period, though it was irregular i didn't
think anything of it because it was often irregular so i didn't expect to become pregnant especially
because i was using protection. anyways, when i got pregnant the second time it was terrifying.
i was a single mother working and going to school, taking care of my son all by myself. not a pity party
mind you, just my circumstances at the time. i went to my doctor and i asked him to schedule me
with a clinic to have an abortion performed. i was pro-life, i was one of those people who said
"abortion is murder, there are no acceptable circumstances, etc. etc." until it happened to me.
there i was, just getting by and finally starting to get on my feet as a mother to my first child
when poof! birth control failed me once again and i was in the same situation as i was before,
except with my first baby abortion hadn't even been an option for me. i was keeping him, 100%, and there
was no way i was going to get rid of him. i was going to fight, and i did i fought hard for the life he has today.
this pregnancy though, was very different. i could put food on the table for my son but just barely,
and there was no way i was going to convince myself that bringing another baby into our lives
at that point would be a responsible decision. first off, it was a broken home already and the
father of both of the children was not in the always picture....long story....so i would
have been solely responsible for two children. secondly, i knew i would not be able to handle it.
i know my strengths but i know my weaknesses as well, and i was alone and i was scared and there
was no way i was going to be the mother on the news who drowned her kids in the bathtub because
she thought she could cope until she couldn't anymore. i suffered from PPD pretty bad after i had
my son, and i was medicated and went to therapy. did i want post partum psychosis this time,
amplified by the stress of two screaming kids every night all night and dealing with it completely alone?
nope, that doesn't seem like saving an innocent life to me, that seems like putting it at risk
with a 19 year old mother who was already close to the end of her tether. so i went with my instinct,
i wanted the best life for the child i had already brought into the world. i went to the clinic,
and they did an ultrasound and i didn't look because i knew there was a heart beating on the screen and
i knew i was about to be responsible for stopping it. but i also knew in MY heart that that
fetus [ooooh bad word] would not have the life it deserved, wether it was me who tried to raise it
or it got stuck in the foster care system or adopted by some sick fuck who turns it into a sex slave
or beats it and keeps it in a closet and feeds it dog food and burns it with cigarettes. fuck that.
i didn't want to be a baby killer, but i didn't want to be responsible for that shit either. and that
shit happens, on a pretty regular basis. do you know how easy it is to adopt or foster a kid
and get away with that stuff? from what i've seen and heard over the years, it's pretty damn easy.
anyone can adopt a baby these days, it seems. and even when that doesn't happen, even when the baby is adopted into a lovely home with lovely parents and everything they could ever want, as my father was when he was 3 weeks old, they can grow up and be incredibly resentful for being put up for adoption, as my father is. there is a huge hole in his life where his real parents should have been, even though my grandparents were incredible. he suffers from addictions and mental instability, in large part due to finding out he was adopted at 12 and not being able to cope. so i had the abortion, and it hurt like hell and i screamed
and i cried and i felt like a horrible person, and my mother was disappointed in me and i was
disappointed in me but i knew i had made the right decision for ME and MY SON and our lives.
and as for adoption? yeah i considered it...for about three seconds. what the hell are you talking
about, all these "aching arms" around the world who can't have babies and need kids to adopt? there are
orphanages FULL of babies and young children who need good homes. do you want to know what the problem is?
it's not women who abort their first-trimester pregnancies. it's these people who are doing
the world such a great service by adopting that won't adopt a russian baby or a korean baby or an
ethiopian baby, or a two year old or an eight year old because they want a blonde haired, blue eyed newborn.
so am i going to birth a baby and put it into the system so some perfectionists who refuse to give
an already homeless baby a home because he's got slanted eyes or coloured skin can have their perfect baby
while those other children sit and wait, and wait, and wait, some of them never getting adopted?
yeah no. those "aching arms" can kiss my ass, because most of them are just superficial. adopt the black baby or quit
bitching about the wait time. that kind of stuff is a sin...so yeah i kind of spouted off my life story there
ladies and i'm sorry this was so long, but i think that this clara woman needs to have
her perspective adjusted a little bit, if not a whole heck of a lot. there are so many shades of grey...
and might i add, in closing, that i do not to this day regret my decision. it was painful and sad,
but i let myself feel that pain and i moved on. i do not ache for that baby, i do not dream of him/her
or the life it could have led or any of that. i do think about the actual surgery from time to time,
because it was awful and i'm very glad to never have to do it again because i now have a wonderful
husband [who, i hate to say it because hes a great man and he took my son and raised him as his own but would he have
done it for two children? probably not.] who supports his family and we are expecting a baby in September.
we are able to provide the lives for our kids that they deserve, and then some.
i am glad that i had the option to have an abortion, and it wasn't an easy decision to make, one i never thought
i would make in my lifetime. it takes a lot of stupidity to just spit out kids and raise them
half-heartedly or not at all, to resort to abuse or drugs or alcohol or worse because you're overwhelmed.
it takes a lot of cahones to make the choice i made, and i believe that i was incredibly strong in
making it. no ifs, ands or butts. and in regards to the original post, i would have found a way
to have an abortion no matter what. the place i went to is the only one for miles and miles, it was
very secretive and solemn. i'm glad it was there though, because if not i might have had to resort to
to going underground to get it done or worse, give birth to a child nine months from then and
have my children live in extreme poverty and deprivation because i wouldn't have been able to feed two children,
diaper them, put a roof over their heads [unless a bachelor apartment for three people
is considered appropriate housing, but i wouldn't have been able to continue to afford my rent anyways with two kids]
things are not always what they seem, clara.

Isobel - posted on 02/13/2011

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the heartbeat is detectable at 6 and a half weeks...many girls don't even know they are pregnant by then, it would be effectively saying that you have all of a week to make the hardest decision of your life, find where you can go, book an appointment, plan somebody to cover you at work, give you a ride, etc etc...

To be honest, I think there would be more abortions...because if you think about the list I just put up, the only part of that equation that can be removed to save time is THINKING ABOUT YOUR DECISION...I think a lot of girls will end up jumping for the abortion simply BECAUSE they have to make the decision immediately and one option won't be available next week.

Nikki - posted on 02/13/2011

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I totally support this bill. BUt I already saif that in another community.

Sara- I am also in Ohio and there are some other bills introduced in this session that allow for medically necessary abortions. If you want to research them, message me and I will send you the link.

[deleted account]

I don't intentionally kill bugs Kate and yes I do eat meat but like Teresa if I had to kill it myself I would be vegetarian :-) I believe killing lfe in order to sustain yourself (eat) is different to just killing for the sake if it.

[deleted account]

A woman has a choice whether she wants to keep a child or not its her body her choice! sometimes there are situations where the child is just unwanted like rape teen pregnancy and where two forms of contraception we're used (condoms and the pill) and both failed (to me the parents we're definitely trying to NOT have a baby) and I also think it needs to happen if it's a life threatening situation and i'm sorry Britanny but how selfish are you? how would the father of your child and the child itself feel if you died because you were too stupid to save your own life! I'm sorry I believe that a woman has a right to an abortion regardless of the situation

Christina - posted on 02/12/2011

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For those who are spouting about how much pain a 8wk gestational baby feels if it is aborted, please go to You Tube and type in Baby Killed. Watch THOSE videos about the infants who are microwaved at the hands of their parents. Watch the videos about the infants who are beaten to death. Watch the video of the woman who decapitated her son and then ate his toes. THOSE children suffered and felt pain! But I can understand your point. I can see why it is still better that these horrible women gave birth instead of aborting their children.

Lacye - posted on 02/12/2011

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*** Mod Warning ***

Ladies, please be cautious about the personal attacks on here. We have had to erase a couple of posts so far. If the thread continues where it is going, it will be shut down.

Lacye
Mod
PD&HT

Isobel - posted on 02/12/2011

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"I'm fully against abortion. Am I going to walk up to someone who is going to have one and tell her she can't,no.

That's HER decision. "

................................................

So...you're saying you are pro-choice and agree with most of the women on this thread??? wow, that took a long time to get to

Ramona - posted on 02/12/2011

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And of course the technical stuff doesn't matter! Why lets facts get in the way! lmao!

Ramona - posted on 02/12/2011

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Clara,
I cannot argue with someone who uses no logical arguments. It simply cannot be done.

My personal feelings on the matter? Abortion can be a selfless choice sometimes. Have you SEEN babies withdrawing from drugs and high on phenobarbitol? It is sickening. Adoptive parents do not WANT those babies. Most of those mothers that caused that believe they could be good mothers and often times they won't sign those babies over if someone actually DOES take it upon themselves to adopt such a high risk baby, simply out of a sense of entitlement. Yes, EVERY child should be wanted by someone. Today's foster kids are tomorrow's criminals, at least if things continue to go the way they have been going. Hell, I can't say I blame them! They have gone through their entire lives unwanted because they weren't healthy enough, or (fill in the blank) enough. Adoptive parents want healthy babies. They will adopt from Ethiopia before they will adopt those with withdrawals and HIV antibodies. Fact.

Ramona - posted on 02/12/2011

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LMAO Teresa, I completely respect your opinion, whether it differs from mine or not. Thank you for not being hysterical and ridiculous.

[deleted account]

I'm pro-HUMAN-life (at any age and stage) and pro-other animal-life (except I do eat meat... I'm a bit hypocritical on that, but if I had to kill my own... I'd be 100% vegetarian). I am not pro-bug-life.... well, for some bugs I am. ;)

Kate CP - posted on 02/12/2011

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"...And for anyone to say it isn't you are blind to life and don't obviously see how precious it is..."

Let me ask you a question...for all pro-lifers, really. Do you kill bugs?

Sharon - posted on 02/12/2011

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Clara - you have a real knack for picking and choosing what you want to respond to and a very odd selective definition for the terms of this debate.

The bill is a joke. It doesn't address a single important thing to those who need/want the abortions. From other, more comprehensive, less hysterical debates, I gather the bill doesn't make any allowances for medical need, or legal emotional well being.

Like many others here - I don't believe the fetus is a viable human being until much later in the pregnancy. A 7th month abortion is just ludicrous (in the case of gianna jessen). Especially with todays technology.

My thought on late term abortion is that if you haven't decided by the third trimester, you aren't mentally prepared for an abortion. 3rd trimester abortions SHOULD be illegal. At that point you're giving birth anyway - why not just give birth and put the baby up for adoption?

I'm a firm believer in the choice for abortion. We were faced with that decision and based on the outcome of tests we decided we would go through with it if the tests were all bad.

We didn't want to. But faced with the imminent suffering our child, the loss of income to our home and other children, we thought it was in the best interest all around to not give birth a baby with likely brain damage and heart defects.

How would we give equal attention and opportunites to our existing children if all our money, time & efforts went to saving the life of a child that couldn't even DEFINE LIFE?

Nope. Abortion is a necessity for some people and some cases and I don't trust teh government to properly define it for me.

Krista - posted on 02/12/2011

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I do respect the fact that you feel that what another woman does is not your business. That's how I feel as well.

I honestly don't think I could ever abort, unless my life was in danger, or unless there were fetal abnormalities incompatible with life. But that's me. I could never make such a personal decision for another woman.

User - posted on 02/12/2011

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And you can call it whatever you want Krista. You asked for my opinion I gave it to you Krista if you didn't want it you shouldn't have asked for it.



I'm fully against abortion. Am I going to walk up to someone who is going to have one and tell her she can't,no.



That's HER decision.



No matter how heartless and stupid it is to me. What she does to her body isn't my business but in my general opinion abortion is wrong.



Thank god my husband wants more kids and considers them a blessing.



I wouldn't have married any man who didn't want a child.





Have a nice chat ladies.

Jenny - posted on 02/12/2011

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"Since when does anyone’s right to live depend upon someone else wanting them?"

Since infants have required an adult to care for them I guess. I don't want any more children myself, so I'm not going to have anymore.

Krista - posted on 02/12/2011

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"Every Child a Wanted Child" should be completed with "and if not wanted, kill!" for that is exactly what that Planned Parenthood slogan means.

That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. That slogan simply means that they want for all pregnancies to be PLANNED. Hence the "PLANNED" in "Planned Parenthood."

But if you think it's great that there are a metric shitload of kids out there who are NOT wanted...then you go right ahead and paint us as the uncaring ones.

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