Can spanking kids cause future behavioral issues?

To spank or not to spank? It's one way many moms choose to discipline their children, but can it cause long term behavioral issues?

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40  Answers

38 6

I think far too many people confuse spanking with physical abuse. They are two separate things and should not be lumped into the same category. Not all children need to be spanked in order to get them to understand what they did wrong, for most a very stern sounding "NO" will be enough to get their attention. However not all children are the same and some do need a slightly more physical reminder that what they did was wrong. I do not agree with parents who spank when they are angry or use this as the only means of discipline (even the most stubborn child can be corrected through non-physical means to start with). Sometimes even the child who can usually be corrected with a "no" or some time in the "time out" chair may need to be spanked. I feel that it is when they have repeatedly done an action in defiance or when they are about to do something that may lead to death. I also feel that you do not have to spank often if you are consistent with the rules. Children will constantly test you to see if they can get away with something that they know they are not supposed to do. If you have said no once be sure to say it again and if you tell them they are going to receive a certain punishment if they do "x", you must follow through with that punishment. My son gets spanked very infrequently because my husband and I are consistent. My son is 2 1/2 and he knows that when I tell him he is going to sit in the chair if he does "x" action I mean it. Does he still test me? Yep! He also knows that if I tell him he is going to get a spanking for repeatedly doing something that I mean that as well. The majority of the time he only gets a spanking for running towards the road as I have tried other methods of reinforcing the idea that this is dangerous and they have all failed miserably. For some reason he thinks that this action is funny and that I'm playing with him. He is getting better about stopping when he hears me say "NO" but not every time. In this instance I would rather he receive a small amount of pain from me, with the reassurance that I still love him, than risk the possibility that I loose him forever.

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1 5

I agree. I just would like to add that when we spank, we should also explain to our children why we did so. let the child cry it out after we spank him/her then explain when they have sobered down. don't use any props to spank your child, the force from your hand is enough to give them the "little" pain reminder. don't also forget to show your child a lot of love, hugs and kisses, praises for positive behavior. this will assure them of your love and prevent issues later.

3 22

I agree whole heartedly. My sons get spanked every once in a while, but not often. Consistancey is key. Idle threats mean nothing and they catch on to it fast. There is a difference between spanking and abuse. If my boys do something that angers me i have them go to thier room till i calm down and we proceed from there. If a few minuets alone has given them time to think about what they did and why it was wrong, thats enough as long as they learn from it. Repeat offences do get spankings. This seems to work really well with my boys and often time we can avert the spanking all together.

0 0

I've commented before in here but it is great to read common sense.

2 0

i agree with you ( spring gates )100 %

26 10

I disagree wholeheartedly. Hitting is physical abuse, there is no way around it... using a cutesy name or saying that it is for their own good doesn't change what it is, it just makes the person doing the abuse feel better about themselves. If my husband would "hit me out of love" or because I did something he didn't agree with or thought it would teach me a lesson I would call the police. If someone hit my grandmother because she was confused and walked into the street I would also call the police. If I see someone hitting their kids I would do the same. Hitting is hitting is hitting and it is all ABUSE.

13 11

Great post!

0 11

Okay, with that mind set, your child hits a kid in school, then explains why they did so.....that is what you are teaching your child as proper conflict resolution?........

0 0

I agree with your comment. If it's done the right way and not all the time then it effective. I was spanked as a child and as a teen. It did help me to realize my wrong doings.

0 11

I'm a social worker with 3 young kids of my own. I think spanking (not physical abuse) is what some kids need now and then. Parents hands are tied nowadays, and kids are smart and control some of these homes. There were a lot less out of control kids when I was younger.

12 29

I agree I do explain why I'm doing it my mother done the same to me so that I could understand why I was getting a spanking. She spanked me let me cry and told me that she loved me because if she didn't she would let me do whatever I wanted to do. She let me know that I have to learn how to act and be around people, in school, and to her. You don't have to spank every time but you know they need to know that it isn't a game. With my daughter you can take things from her not the same with my son and he is 17 yes I still get him but I haven't had to in awhile. Because he is still a child not an adult and still than he will not disrespect me.

26 10

I disagree and so do the studies. Hitting is hitting is hitting. Intention has nothing to do with it. It is abuse of power and just plain abuse. I would never hit my children as I would never hit my husband. Seriously, do you really believe that you are teaching them what to do the next time or are you just teaching them to not get caught? Shame on those who abuse and hit their children. I hope one day they hit you back, as that is what you are teaching them.

19 0

I rarely agree with every single word a person says. But you really got it with this post! Every single thing you said is completely logical and probably the best thing for your son!! My sister is failing miserably with her children for one reason: inconsistency. She tells them if they do "x" then they won't get ice cream or a toy or whatever. They keep doing it and yet they still get the treat! She does it because if she doesn't give it to them they will scream, cry, throw things, just be completely out of control. So I guess she just doesn't want to deal with those outcomes. I keep telling her it's never too late to start putting your foot down. It's ideal to be consistent with discipline from day 1, but her kids have gone through a lot. Their father is a drug addict (now in prison for 2-4 years) and now my sister is a single mom. They're acting out, but she can still regain control! Once they start to realize that they REALLY will be punished for doing these things, they will start to modify their behavior.

19 0

The Bible says "spare the rod, spoil the child." While I truly believe it doesn't mean use an actual rod or excessive force, I do believe it means that you should spank your child. However, I also think it's a last resort. You should try all other non-physical forms of discipline, but if your child is STILL not listening, being out of control, or just running wild then you need to use another method. What are we going to do, just let our children do whatever they want because time outs aren't working? You're also supposed to explain to them why they are being spanked and afterwards hug them, kiss them, tell them you love them, and tell them that you don't want to have to resort to spanking, Tell them that if they listen to what they are told to do or if a time out will work then you don't have to spank them.

317 9

You do realize that you are advocating violence against children, right? I wish you could hear yourselves. Hitting someone is no way to teach them anything. Parent with your brain and your heart, not your hands.

14 0

I agree. A parent sometimes needs an additional emphasis if the point is not getting through. I think a warning of the smack is appropriate "If you persist with this it will lead to a smack" Then you are giving them a choice that they need to make which empowers them more in what happens to them. But this is only if the child is old enough to understand consequence. I always say after that I do not enjoy giving a smack and a hug is required. Well done you are definitely on the right path as far as I can see.

22 9

there is more and more research proving that all of you who believe in physical punishment are wrong and doing long-term damage to your children. Eventually it will be outlawed and you will have no more excuses. In the meantime I cry for your children and hope that they never forgive you and go on to parent their own children with more compassion. http://healthland.time.com/2012/07/02/physical-punishment-increases-your-kids-risk-of-mental-illness/

25 16

Great to hear this common sense! Thank you, ladies.

0 0

As one viewer wrote, and I agree, the Bible says, "spare the rod and spoil the child." I am now a grandmother raising my grandson. I raised 5 children, 2 are ten years older then the oldest of my other 3. I "spanked" the older children, I did not physically abuse them. I was consistent and spanking was used only when they continually disobeyed or if their actions put themselves or others in danger. Spankings were not given often and never when you were angry. This is also how I and my siblings were raised. None of us, nor my older boys have any behavior problems and are all very productive and successful citizens in this country. Two of my younger children were raised without spankings, which is not a "cutesy" word for abuse. Low and behold, I have behavioral problems with two that were raised without spankings. My older children and the youngest, totally respect me, the other two, who were told, along with their classmates, that if you parent spanks you call the cops, they can't abuse you. My neighbor, whose husband spanked their oldest son very rarely, went off to college and was told he was suffering from Postpartum Depression due to the "beatings" he received from his father. We need to make sure are children are tough. Children in other countries are being taught how to prepare for war and kill our children and we are afraid to spank our children. look at what is happening in this country with out of control teens and young adults who have no respect for authority figures, why? They get away with everything and no one spanked them when they needed it. Sorry to go off track but parents, learn to discipline, don't beat or abuse your children but spankings can be needed. It does not teach them to beat others if you are able to properly discipline them.

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16 0

Spanking is one of many ways to discipline children. One of MANY. Spanking is a great tool, when used properly. Spanking is a CONTROLLED discipline to a defiant behavior. If you are not controlled, as the parent, you will inflict emotional and perhaps even physical harm to your kids. I am definitely pro spanking, but unlike my parents, I do not believe spanking to be appropriate for every "crime." One comment said that it hurt her self esteem and perhaps, for her, spanking was far beyond what discipline she needed. Spanking is generally for the more strong-willed and defiant kid; the kid who was born with his or her dukes up saying "what are you gonna do about it?" A stern look could do as much as a spanking could for a much more sensitive child. I think that as parents it is our job to know our kids enough to know what they need whether is it a spanking or just a firm "No" but do not underestimate the need for discipline. Kids NEED to be disciplined. It helps them know their parents are watching them and that they care about what the kids do. Too many parents are afraid that their kid may not like them...like the word NO is a bad word. Those are the out of control kids. Whether you choose to spank or not isn't really the issue. Just be parents who aren't afraid to properly and lovingly discipline your kids. It will NOT hurt their self esteem. If they esteemed themselves a bit less, they wouldn't need as much discipline! Funny how that works.

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5 15

I wholeheartedly agree....I can count on my hand how many spankings I got as a child, because it was a LAST RESORT. I was a very strong willed child, but most times if you explained it to me, I would comply. Children need to know that you care about them, that you are willing to take the time to guide them. If spanking was so bad, why is it that withing the last thirty years it seems when all these "psychologists" say that spanking is bad do you see such a degeneration in self control among society?

21 16

And, I bet neither of your children is in prison for lack of spanking, as has been insinuated in some of the posts, are they? My son, also, is happy and has an amazing little spirit and all without being hit or being scared of me. The one thing he knows for sure is my love for him and protection of him. Thanks for sharing, TealRose.

7 8

i agree, my sisters raised me, and when they spanked me it stinged and im a sensitive person. I never liked being yelled at. my lil girl will be 1 soon so i still have time to worry about discipline im just worried ill end up doing what my sisters did and they probably did it out of anger.

5 42

@Tealrose...I'm not sure what you may have experienced as a child to have been affected so deeply, my guess would be that the spankings were of a very harsh nature and that is abuse....I do spank my children when it's necessary..but a rule for myself is to never spank in anger...I was raaised in a family that spanked their kids and I did recieve some harsh spankings that by todays standards would be considered abusive.....but it taught me to never spank my kids in anger.....the BIBLE teaches us to love and honor or fathers and mothers..and it also instructs parents to dicipline our children,.....if we have love and respect for God and ourselves as well as our children then we can use spanking in the way of teaching a child to behave correctly....and we also need to show love to them even when they need redirection.....as well as when they are behave correctly....I pray that you are able to seek assistance in dealing with the pain u have endured, so that you can move past it. May God be with you...a child should never be diciplined to the extent that it causes a lifetime of pain....May God be with you as u try to heal.....

0 5

Discipline in verb form means: to punish or penalize for the sake of enforcing obedience and perfecting moral character. TealRose it sounds like to me you were spanked to often and perhaps to hard. I have seen children who don't get spankings, hit and kick and bite their parents when they don't get want they want. Who taught them this behavior, not the parents who don't spank their children. Children who act that way do so because of a lack of discipline. I have watched the same parents try to talk quietly and calmly to their child during the tantrum in order to find out what was wrong and give them instruction, only to receive more of the same treatment. Alot of people go overboard and end up abusing their children which is unacceptable. To lump spankings in with beating or abusing your child isn't right either. My parents spanked me, not that often, I learned that I shouldn't exhibit that type of behavior anymore if I didn't want the consequence. You can do a lot more harm with your mouth than you can in spanking. I love my parents and have a good relationship with them. I was always told that I could ask them anything and I could talk to them about anything and I did. I have raised my children with spankings, very few. My children and I have great relationships, they are great, loving, compassionate people. I have seen parents scream and yell at their children in such a way that I cringe. Words stay with you much longer than the sting of a swat to the behind. Yelling at your child and telling them they are bad or rotten is just as abusive as beating a child. It does boil down to teaching your children. They must know that there is a consequence for disobedience. Sometimes that consequence is a spanking, sometimes it's loss of privileges, sometimes it an added chore. Spanking done right and in love is highly effective.

12 0

I just commented about being for spanking also, and I see that you mentioned strong-willed children. People need to be aware that there are children who will NOT be controlled or shaped properly by using corporal punishment, more than likely it will "ruin" them. You have to know your child and know which punishments work best for them. Ground them, remove items that they love... Spanking does not work for every situation or every child. :-)

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59 0

From my own research, experience, and observations, I think spanking does have long term effects. It changes a child's personality. At 2 1/2, they don't have the long term memory to know that you have taught them about an issue previously. It takes a lot of repetition, and keeping a close eye out.

Since before my daughter could walk, I taught her about not going into the road. The grass was her boundary. You know what, never had to spank her for it. She is 5 now, and if her ball rolls into the street, she doesn't even attempt to go after it. This was instilled in her since she was a baby. Not through scolding, but repetition, and by keeping her close when she was little, knowing she didn't have the capacity to fully understand the danger.

The long term effects in a child can go one of two ways... There may be more, but in my opinion there are 2 major ones. One, a child can become compliant, but fearful, introverted, and even lose self-confidence. Or, tow, a child may become defiant, and more rebellious as a way to prove to themselves that they are not afraid of you. Respecting a parent is imperative. Fearing a parent leads to break down of communication. You want your child to be able to trust you enough to talk to you about anything, without fear of disapproval. No, spanking doesn't have to be considered abuse, but it really is unnecessary when trying to teach your children how to resolve problems. Do you solve anything with hitting?

Giving a child choices and making them aware of consequences following actions, I feel, is a much better teaching tool in the long run. Oh, sure, spanking gets you short term results, but is your child learning about consequences, or just how to avoid getting caught? As they get older, children develop commodities. You take those important things away from them and that gets their attention. Their bottoms eventually get used to the spanking, and they may even endure it just to get it over with so they can continue on in their own line of behavior. It is not an issue of getting your point across in the moment. It is an issue of affirming your child of the positive choices they make in order to grow up to be better people.

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10 15

I have 3 adult daughters, they were all spanked at times as nessesary, they are all wonderful productive woman. It has a place, as a childcare provider I told I spank hand if they (the child) were in danger. All the parents were fine with it. I agree some children if spanked often will hit back. I hope this helps. I have seen some children that never really need to be spanked too. Just an FYI

11 16

I believe it is a sad world if parents/caregiver have no other means of guiding children towards what is right or wrong. We often do it because we were brought up this way and it hasn't necessarily damaged us, but if we allowed ourselves to become more creative and follow our hearts rather than our hands, we would achieve wonderful results.

17 14

to Jilene.. I would never allow anyone who worked with children at a daycare or anywhere to hit my child. That is wrong. Not sure here, but I think the daycare would be closed down if they heard of that. Kids, especially young ones don't understand alot of things.. it is just wrong.

17 14

yes, nadia.. agreed.

21 16

Good Lord! I could not imagine allowing a childcare provider to smack my child. Unfathomable!

295 38

I disagree with the 2.5 year old idea. My nearly 3 y/o will start to do something wrong, stop, and say "no spank", and walk away from what he was going to do. He remembers and he knows.

3 17

I got my butt beat when I did things wrong and BELIEVE me it had a lasting result...I never ever did the offense again. Thats all it took for me. Oh and my mom tried taking things from me instead when I was teen and trust me I resented her more for that than if she had popped me with a belt...but that is just me...

6 1

Well great for you Kimberly, but not all children are the same. My daughter is 9 now and very strong willed and has ADHD. As I have stated many times on this subject she has been spanked very little and as a last resort. I could count on 2 hands the number of times she has been spanked. NEVER EVER done out of anger and only for out and out defiance or to get her attention because she would not listen in the event of something that could hurt her. There was one time she was about 2 and a half and was running full tilt toward the street. I caught her right at the curb with some IDIOT going about 60 down our street. I had to literally push her backwards with force because of my forward momentum to keep her from being DEAD from the idiot driver.She cried and cried but I explained to her WHY I had to do that. To tell you the truth I am so SICK of this subject I can't see straight. No one is going to change the minds of those that believe in or are against spanking. For those that are lucky enough to not have to ever spank I say YAY....for those who have very strong willed children and may need a smack on the butt every now and then to get their attention and keep them from harm I say go for it as long as it's not done in such a way as to embarrass or physically harm or cause emotional trauma. As for all the responses about a husband hitting their wife or boyfriend hitting his girlfriend.....come on let's get real here. We're talking about apples and oranges there.

59 0

So, are you viewing alternative methods for her ADHD? As long as parents are consistant, I think that's the best for their children. I've seen far too many parents let their kids get away with stuff, then, when they've been pushed to their limit, that's when they choose to exercise discipline (regardless of the method). I think being consistent is far more important than the method of discipline. Consistency provides stability, and thereby, children learn better what their parents expect of them. Not let them get away with being rude, or whatever, then only correcting them in public because you're embarrassed your kid spoke to you that way. Teach manners, and stick to it, so your kids learn how to behave in restaurants. Far too many think they can just run around and that endangers them and others around them. My point is more about being consistent with your kids, and you'll have happier families. good luck to you all. I know as parents, we just all want what's best for our kids.

21 0

I think you defeat your own point here - spanking is the consequence they get for breaking rules. Very small children are not capable of reasoned arguments - they need something direct and immediate in order for them to see any connection. I am sorry that your education did not prepare you for this.

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11 5

I was spanked and I spanked my kids.....the point of spanking is to do it with LOVE....if you are angry, send them to their room, wait until you are calm....ask the child if they understand why they are getting spanked....tell them why it was wrong....maybe they didn't understand what they did wrong and it was not done to disobey....at this point you DON'T spank the child....spanking is only for deliberate disobedience.....where you say to the child...don't hit your sister...and the child looks you in the eye and hits her again.....this is when you follow the above procedure and then tell the child you are going to spank him so he remembers not to do it again....but that you still love them....take the child over your knee and get a swat or two on the butt....if the child moves around wait until you can only swat on the behind...afterwards tell your child that you love him again and have him ask for your forgiveness.... hug him.....then tell him that you forgive him...and that it is forgotten....take him by the hand and leave the room and don't bring it up again.....I would have him apologize to his sister also.....the only time I would say calls for an immediate swat or two is when the child runs into the street....this is dangerous! But it should only be lightly to leave an impression......The point is to find other ways of disciplining your child and only leave spanking for out right, clear cut....i am testing you disobedience....or if the child does something dangerous.

26
1 7

This is disturbing to read!

1 6

AGREED! The children aren't the ones needing to ask forgiveness.

1 14

I agree Annie and Christina!!!!!!!!

0 0

How can you tell your child not to hit your sister, and then hit your child, that is just confusing your child, if they can't hit, why can you? Be an example.

0 11

THIS comment and parenting style is EXACTLY why we have an increase in bullies in school!! SPANKING DOES NOT EQUAL LOVE.......that is distorted beyond reason or explanation! You want to teach your child NOT to hit their sister......yet YOU are teaching your child that "spanking" is proper conflict resolution.......what a dysfunctional circle of confusion!! WHY in GODS green earth would you ask your child for forgiveness if you are spanking in love.......this whole comment is full of conflicted vial mess.....

11 5

So a child doesn't need to apologize for hitting his sister? WOW ...what kind of kids are you raising..,..

1 6

I don't see where any of these posts state a child doesn't need to apologize to his sister for hitting her. The issue is having your child ask for forgiveness after YOU have hit THEM. I am raising children who think for themselves without the fear of the person who loves them most hitting them.

0 0

Georgina....your stupid!!!!.....spanking your kids is not bad...unless your smacking there faces or head then yes get help.....have you ever noticed spanking them on there buts they dont flinch...what r u ganna do sit there and keep saying no sweetie dont do that and they do it again and you say again calmly no sweetie dont do that....if i were your kid i would walk all over you...im a mother of 3 and i know the proper way to discipline my kids a swatting them on the butt is ok...if you just keep on telling them nicley they will not listen they need discipline to know they are loved and cared for.... SPANKING YOUR KIDS IS NOT BAD!!!!..my daughter is 3 and is so well behaved but time to time have minor tantrums'raising your voise is ok to

11 5

The whole point of the apologizing is because the child disobeyed you...what are you going to do when your child disobeys you? When your child deliberate disobeys you and you do nothing...then next time when you tell the child not to run into the street, touch a hot stove, stick something into the electric socket and you tell your child no....they will do it any way...then what do you have? A hurt or God forbid a dead child? But you can say you never hit them.....the point is you never taught your child to obey....I have raise 4 boys and they all are good young men who don't smoke, do drugs, or run around on the streets. I hardly ever needed to spank them, I can only count the times on one hand, only when they knowingly disobeyed. You are the type of parents that let the kids talk back to the teacher, cop, or authority figure and then say in 10 years...He won't listen to me I don't know what to do? It all goes back to allowing them to disobey!

11 5

I NEVER said to hit a toddler......A toddler is not capable of the deliberate disobedience that I am speaking of. I am speaking of an older child who can understand. And there is a difference between a swat on the padding of the behind and hitting a child out of anger. You say hit, yet the swat that I am speaking of is only to leave an impression NOT to hurt. If you read my original response you would have seen this.

30 53

I understand that you're trying to take a compassionate approach to spanking here... but it's teaching them nothing. Your example, if he hits his sister... So YOU hit HIM to teach him not to hit? Makes no sense in my head at all. =[

7 14

Debbie just ignore these moms because they ARE the ones in the store who are trying to reason with a kid who has no respect for them. If you have never had to spank your kid and they are well behaved then count your blessings, but I can tell you all the judgement you guys are passing around to those of us who believe in spanking will come back to you in the form of a very bad behaved child SOON. I have 3 kids who are great kids and they love me and their dad very much, but I guess our spanking them will one day make them hate us right? I don't think so, they will one day thank us for giving them a spanking when they went to far, I know because I sure thanked my mom!!!!

26 10

In what universe does abuse mean love? Hitting for any reason is abuse.

2 4

very good advice! brilliant! thanks

22 9

"I love my wife, that's why I hit her, to show her how much I love her, I always tell her why before I beat her" hmm, sounds wrong? not sure it would stand up in a court of law. I'm interested to know at what point the law distinguishes between abuse and acceptable discipline.

24 33

So Christina... if a child acts out, and does something wrong, they DON'T need to say sorry? Ok I'll come over and let my child ransack your house, and brake all your stuff, and when you get mad and want justice, I will just tell my child they don't need to be sorry for what they've done, because you said so! Do you realize how stupid you sound, to say that kids shouldn't ask for forgiveness?!?! Just Sayin'

317 9

I'm sorry, but this woman needs parenting classes STAT!

5 15

I dont understand what is so disturbing about this comment....If a child does something that is hurtful to another person, they should apologize....period. Disrespectful behavior should not be tolerated.....

11 5

You all think that you have the right to pass judgement on me??? You think I need parenting class? I have RAISED my sons .....they are now either teens or adults.....and I asked them if they are upset in the way my husband and I punished them. They said that they are GLAD that I disciplined them. I didn't let them run around and that we gave them limits. I only spanked them only a handful of times. Only in the situation when they were defiant! I was only giving advice to the person that asked I NEVER ASKED for anyone opinion. This is suppose to be a christian board? The judgement and nastiness makes me think that this is not the case. "Judge not for ye shall be judged"

0 5

So... You SPANKED him for HITTING his sister. And you are wondering why he did it again. Modeling by the adult would be my first clue. How about trying a little more than lazy parenting of the 1950's to discipline your child if you want to see something works.

11 5

Did I ever say he did it again? NO....I was giving the situation as an example. My son never hit his sister....you people are crazy. If you read my original post than you would see I said that spanking is the last resort! I also said it was for DIRECT disobedience or a dangerous situation. If I said that he looked you in the eye and deliberately threw the ball at someone or something, It is not the fact of the child hitting or whatever the situation it was the intent of DIRECT disobedience. My sons hardly ever did this type of defiance, for other situations time out is called for, or taking a privilage away.

235 26

My mother spanked me as a child, and as a child while I didn't hate it per se I was pretty darn sure I wasn't going to do it. Then I had kids, its done as a last resort ladies, if you confuse abuse with spanking then yes your going to get upset. All three of my children love me and their father and I could count on my one hand how many times we have spanked them. their ages range from 11 to 4. Don't listen to them Debbi we mothers understand you, and the ones that don't lets hope THEIR way of doing things works out well for them. Just because it isn't done they way some would like doesn't mean its wrong.

1 6

Amanda, as I stated on August 4, I do not see where anyone has posted that a child should not say they are sorry when they have done wrong. I know this is a heated topic but before you tell people they sound stupid you should probably read through everything, maybe twice in your case. Just sayin'.

11 5

Yes, Amanda you did not say that a child shouldn't apologize but you were upset that I would have my sons apologize for Direct DISOBEDIENCE.......my whole point was that a child who directly disobeyed when he was told not to do something is wrong. He disobeyed and did something wrong...he needs to learn not to disobey. That is the whole point of the subject. DISOBEDIENCE.......because if a child does not learn to obey the authority figure in life will grow up believing that it is ok to disobey the law.

5 19

My thoughts exactly.... disturbing to read! OMG i think some parenting classes need to be taken here. Poor kids :(

0 0

The argument that you should not do something to or in front of your children that they are not allowed to do for fear of sending "mixed messages" does not really hold up. Many of you have suggested a more appropriate punishment for a child would be to take away his or her belongings, but were to catch child stealing your possesions out of your bedroom, you would certainly scold or discipline him or her (or at least express that this is wrong, if a first time offense). Wouldn't this qualify as sending mixed messages? Another example: children are not allowed to use the stove, or other dangerous kitchen appliances, but parents will use them to prepare meals in front of their children without a second thought. I could go on and on, but the point is that the set of behaviors acceptable for children is only a small fraction of the set of behaviors acceptable for adults. Yes, this is confusing for most children to grasp (I'm sure most of us have at some point had to field the question, "Why do you get to do such and such, but I don't?"), but it's one of many things that a child must learn to deal with at a relatively young age anyway. It would be ridiculous to use this confusion in an attempt to convince someone that it is "wrong" or "ineffective" to take away a child's toys as a punishment, or to use kitchen appliances around children, just like it is a ridiculous argument against spanking as a punishment for a child who repeatedly and deliberately disobeys his or her parent by continually hitting a sibling.

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Child has been naughty - needs to say sorry. I spank for deliberate disobedience too. My boys don't fight each other and rarely hit unless they lose their tempers. They don't associate spanking with htting in temper - they know the difference.

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I was spanked as a child, "with love." My parents would smack me on the rear and I would cry hysterically (humiliated, angry and confused) and they would tell me they "did it because they love me and want to teach me to behave properly." Honestly, I think I would have turned out better if they had simply told me that they hated me. At least then there would have been consistency. Being hit (and yes, spanking IS a form of hitting) and then being told how much I'm loved was the most sick, disturbing, confusing and ultimately destructive thing I've ever experienced. I loved and still love my parents, but I honestly don't respect them. I have no desire to be like them, to emulate them in any way, despite the fact that they were well-respected and intelligent people. I spent the majority of my teen/young adult years pursuing men who were emotionally and physically abusive. Today, it is clear to me that this is because I believed that love wasn't real unless it was accompanied by pain and humiliation. I had to make a conscious, mindful change in paradigm in order to find a healthy, loving relationship. Today, I have a 9-year-old daughter is who not only willfull and stubborn but very intelligent, confident and respectful. She has never been spanked, and she demonstrates nothing but respect for her father and me. When we told her that we were spanked as children, she was very confused and bothered by it. She was horrified at the idea of an adult hitting a child--someone so big hitting someone so small. In sum, I think we're moving in the right direction with moving away from spanking as a society. Those of you who still spank? You might think you're winning the battle, and maybe you are. But you're losing the war. You might think you're teaching them not to repeat bad behavior, but if they're like me they're either learning craftier ways to avoid getting caught, or they're hedging their bets with the spankings, thinking "OK, I REALLY want to hit my sister right now. I"ll get spanked, but OH it's so worth it." That's what I did.

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yes spanking doesn't guarantee discipline.Before when I had to discipline my son, it was always accompanied by spanking, but after each spanked that he recieved, i felt so bad and it doesnt give him any good.And he was very afraid of me every time I raised my voice.But I tried my very best to handle my anger to avoid spanking, so I changed how I disciplined him, That I had him to stand in a corner everytime he does bad.which is a good thing. And i've been doing that for a year now, and i love the changes in him.we've been so close now. and he always pooped sweet words like "love u mommy". . And i was so sorry for those days that i did it..

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I agree with you Annie and Christina. I was spanked, and was also told that it was out of love. As I got older, I thought that was just a way for my mom to make herself feel better, and never believed it. I never trusted her and never talked to her about anything important in my life. As my Mom sees how I raise my children, and how sweet and respectful they are without spanking, she tells me she regrets how she raised me, and says I'm a good mom. We are in a better place now, but it took 35 years.

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NOT spanking leads to LONG term behavioral problems. Long as into adulthood !!!

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I did not spank my boys and they are productive healthy young men. Hitting a child teaches them to use physical means to deal with anger. There are other ways to discipline. Taking away a favorite toy or losing tv privileges, etc. You can also try positive reinforcement.

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I don't believe that spanking your child teaches them to use physical means when dealing with anger as long as the above mentioned its used only to correct blaitent disrespect. It would if you were angry with the child and wailed on his butt. but not an occasional spanking. And come on people smacking your childs butt is not the end of the world. Parents are afraid to disipline their children because someone might call CPS because heaven forbid someone stuck their nose into the disipline process and thought that child was being abused.

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And your proof of that ridiculous statement? Read the studies. There have been dozens done over the last few decades. You have it absolutely backwards.

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Read the Bible :) Spanking should be reserved for when a child is being outright disrespectful, or when nothing else seems to get their attention (especially if it's something that is putting him/her in danger) There are many other methods of discipline that work most of the time, and they should be used before resorting to a spankin' I grew up in the south, where spanking your kids is typical. I got plenty of spankings as a child, and I can say with 100% honesty that I have no issues now as an adult, nor did I feel any deep anger or resentment as a kid because I got spanked. I knew what i did was wrong and that I shouldn't have done it, and usually didn't do it again. I am now a respectful, thoughtful adult, with good mannered kiddos who occasionally get a spanking when they decide to choose the behavior. And also....a child definitely needs to apolijize when they have disrespected a parent, sibling, or what/whoever....who are we raising our kids to be guys.....think about it. Kids have to be shamed, and they have to be taught that there are limits and that certain behaviors yield more severe consequenses .....better learned as a child, than learning the hard way as an adult. Just my opinion! No offense intended.... :)

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http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/familydevelopment/W00021.html

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How many of us was spanked and didn't go on to beat on everything that moves.....or go on to become murderers? The fact that many of you are on here and can comment shows that you are have did well despite being spanked. People always confuse a spanking and a beating. I was beat and abused for years so I can say from experience that there's a difference between beating and spanking. My mom beat me....my grandparents spanked me. There was a huge difference between the two. I do agree that spanking should be a last resort. But that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be done ever. I haven't did too much researching on this subject other than the bible, but here is the proof that backs spanking since you were looking for it....may I note that it states that when they asked teenagers (not adults) who were spanked but not abused if they agreed that it was proper punishment and would spank their own children and they answered that they felt it was proper punishment and will spank their own children if need be: http://www.drheller.com/spanking.html And to all the Christians out there: Proverbs 13:24, 23:14, 29:15

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My proof is a 23 year old son in the Marine Corp. and a 21 year old daughter that is a corrections officer for the state of TEXAS. Both spanked when needed growing up. Both VERY productive. Whittney Canchola, Love your comment.Thank you. Some people will never get it. I just hope I never have to be around their kids.

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Spanking teaches children two things: 1. violence and 2. that they're self worth does not rate..that they're parent shave the right to physically assault them when they don't do what they're supposed to do...i guess as adults our bosses or our husbands shoudl be able to just all out and smack us across the face if we don't follow the rules all the time...right???? what's the difference assault is assault ..if the comment ur making right now after reading what i just wrote is
well there's a difference between smackingin the face and spanking the behind" GUESS WHAT ...NO THERE IS NOT!!!! it's assault no matter where you 'HIT...AND YES THE WORD IS HIT THEM....it's wrong in every essence.. there are other forms of discipline that require a parent to really use their parenting skills and though process ..its just so much easier to ASSAULT your child ....then use your brain....pls...spanking is wrong and will def do more damage than any type of miniscule good.

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Agree with you 100% Veronica Gallucci

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you probably weren't spanked as a child.....that's why you're so disrespectful now. :)

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I agree 100% with Laurel

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I can count on 1 hand the number of times I was spanked as a child, and at 36 I can still tell you why I was spanked, and that I had definitely earned that particular punishment. I can also tell you that I am not a violent person, nor was my selfworth reduced with this as a form of discipline...what it did was teach me not to swear at my mother, and to listen the first time, and not the 10th... my husband and I are raising wonderful and caring children, who on occasion have earned a spanking after warnings, and time outs have ceased to be effective... they are not unsure of our love or their worth for this, they are simply disciplined.

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There are huge differences between assault/spousal abuse and spanking children as a means of discipline. First of all, one of them is illegal. Second, if a grown adult (boss, spouse, whatever) has been wronged by another adult, they can fire that person, or get a divorce, or call the police/take legal action... options that are not available (mostly because they would not be logical or necessary) to a parent who is dealing with a misbehaving child. Third, if you were to replicate the spank that a child experiences when being disciplined in this way on an adult instead, it would be closer to sexual harassment than it would be to assault-- the force is so minimal and well-absorbed by all the "padding" that most children don't even so much as flinch or cry, and usually when they do it is because they are upset that they are being disciplined at all. I could go on, but I believe I've sufficiently outlined the major differences between the two to the point where most intelligent people can see that they are nothing alike. In the future, you might want to avoid making sweeping generalizations and using so many misspelled words, because these are two things that will usually guarantee that whatever you have to say will not be taken seriously by others.

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Veronica, that is the stupidest thing I have ever heard in my life. First of all God put us in charge to raise our children, which includes spanking their butts if need be to keep them straight, not slap them across the face. The first stupid comment you made was we are suppose to raise our children not correct our husbands and bosses correct us. That was just plain out one of the stupidest comments I have ever read in my life. The most stupidest comment I ever read in my entire life and I actually had to read it several times just to make sure I didn't read it wrong and obviously you have never been spanked or as Laurel pointed out, you wouldn't be so disrespectful now and two you have never been abused or you would never have said the second part. There is a huge difference between spanking the behind and smacking the face. I don't care how hard you smack your hand across a behind you can never draw blood, or cause damage but if you take your hand and smack it across a face hard enough you can actually draw blood and bruise a face and damage the eyes, even break the nose. Taking your hand and after telling your child no several times and he/she not listening and smacking them on the behind to getting their attention is not abuse, it is not hurting them or being cruel. Its just your hand smacking up against a chubby little butt, padded with muscle and fat. Now telling your child no and taking your hand and smacking them across the face is abuse, it is humiliating, degrading & it's painful, there is no clothing to protect them, no extra skin or fat and muscle to protect, just a thin layer of skin against bone. So before you say such stupid ignorant remarks think with your little pea brain why don't you. Also, as far as you mom's with your little perfect ideas that you get from watching Dr.Phil, taking their toys don't always work. My when my 2 year old is upset she doesn't care when I take away her toys, and putting her in time out doesn't work either she thinks it is funny, taking her to her room for me to calm down doesn't work either because she has done forgotten what she done wrong or went back to doing it again. When she is willfully disobeying and throwing a fit the only thing that works is too smack her on the the bottom. The other times she is a darling sweetheart that minds me and is a joy to have.

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Hugging or loving your child after a spanking reinforces their self worth. If a parent is punishing a child (with or without spanking), but does not look at, speak to, or hug that child for a period of time after the punishment, because they are angry or upset, THAT diminishes a child's self-respect, self-worth and ultimately questioning their relationship with their parent. Spanking does not devalue a child, but a parent's attitude and actions after punishment can.

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Laural ~~ I agree with you 100% :)

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I was spanked as a child an i agree with veronica 100%! XD

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i don't think it results in anger. My mother spanked me as a child and i'm fine. It gave me discipline and let me know not to do it again

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I have 2 kids, 5 grandkids, had daycare in my home. Many times a child can be instructed, diverted or just shown that certain behavior is not acceptable, but like some others have said....when your child faces off with you, knowing he should not have done something or when he hits, bites, yells "no" or out and out stubbornly defies you, he needs a swat on the rear. My son, who got the most spankings is tenderhearted, loving, has never done drugs, alcohol or cigarettes, or engaged in any immorality. My daughter and grandkids have all been spanked and are sweet, loving, good young adults who know what's right and wrong. Don't spank in anger and give them lots of love.

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I agree with you totally.You should sometimes spank your child but as you mentioned you should give them love all the time.You show them that you love them a lot but at the same time you don't agree with their behavior.In other posts some ladies have mentioned that the child feels that his dignity has been hit or that they feel unworthy..But this only happens when the parents criticize the child.Then they feel that they are worthless.But which child will feel this when the parents are trying to punish them for this misbehavior but at the same time telling them that their behavior is wrong I don't see why they will feel diminished in their own eyes.So to conclude in my opinion a little spanking is allowed.

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I can't think of a time when spanking is necessary. You are wrong. A child's dignity is removed when you hit them. You needn't insult them to take that away. The action itself removes their dignity and confidence. How dignified can one really be when someone larger than themselves, whom they depend on for everything in their world, hits them?

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My sister was never spanked as a child, and she sounds exactly like your son who was. The spanking does not matter to their life choices, but how they treat others, and how they treat you. Do you think that if he did do drugs or any of those "immoral" things that he would have told you? No. And why not? Because when he does something you disapprove of, you hit him.

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Jennifer and TealRose your children must be very placid. My kids are super challenging, intelligent, funny, sweet and push the boundaries constantly. My daughter came out womb stubborn. That is part of who she is. Her character. I work from home and life is one big chaotic ball. We live and love passionately. There have been times when the odd point has needed emphasis. When all other avenues have been exhausted (you know the star charts, the timeouts and long explaining on why somethings should not be done, the distraction technique etc.) and to tell you the truth I cannot see any harm in the odd smack. More harm comes from people who are not involved in their children's lives and don't hug and tell their children that they are loved often. Child abuse is UNFORGIVABLE but a smack is not child abuse. I think you are both good mothers though and we all need to find ways to make our families work with love (and for me .... the odd smack)

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I have personally witnessed a friend of mine never spank her son, at age 2 he would hit and slap at her and scream bloody murder, she would put him in time out to no avail. As he grew older he continued to hit and slap at her when he got upset and in his teens started knocking her around. He has been arrested for beating up his girlfriends, his mother ruined him. She should have made it known to him at the age of two not to hit and been consistent. I have two boys and they had to have a swat or two but gently and lovingly with discussion about why they needed the spank , they are good young men, good citizens and they treat women with respect. They are not wimps and they are very confident and hard working. I wouldn't trade my boys for that troubled young man,who couldn't ever have his little self esteem hurt, I feel sorry for him. He has ruined the self esteem of two young ladies by batting them around. If you are constantly yelling at your little monster, that will kill a self image quicker than anything. My husband and I always wanted people to like our kids and people have complimented us over the years of how well behaved they were. We have deep down inside, wanted people to hurry up and leave our home with their unruly, misbehaved and disrespectful brats. You are a good parent when you want your child to behave and be liked by others. And you are showing your child you DON'T respect them be letting them behave badly. Children need to be guided and taught, I know people who train their dogs to behave better than their kids! Being a parent is hard work, being consistent in the end pays off with well adjusted young men and women.

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OMG WoW

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@Jennifer Just because you cannot think of a time when spanking is necessary, does not mean that Terrilee is wrong. Obviously you are able to effectively discipline your children without the use of spanking, so congratulations, that's great for you. But you don't know for a fact that there is ALWAYS, in every single case for every single child, a method that will work before spanking. You don't know every child on the planet, and you haven't tried every single method of discipline on each one of them, so unfortunately, you simply cannot go around proclaiming that people like Terrilee are "wrong." You are entitled to your own opinion, but there is no "right" or "wrong" here, it all depends on your personal beliefs.

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I am against spanking. I was spanked....not beaten. There are other ways to teach right from wrong. I was and am a very sensitive person. It does affect me. It decreased my confidence. Why would you ever hit a child if there was ANY other way available to teach them. There are LOTS of law-abiding citizens in our midst who did not get spanked and turned out just fine. I understand religions sometimes encourage this, but there are lots of things encouraged in the Bible that we would look at as barbaric today. If you're even asking the question, why even chance it? Let's say just a possibility exists that it could harm your child emotionally. Is it worth it to take that chance?

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I am also against spanking and don't understand how inflicting pain on my child is considered love? Maybe I'm just lucky and have a son who is super well behaved, therefore never needed to result to punishment -- IDK. Also, when I see kids in public who get spanked, they end up throwing bigger tantrums. To me, it doesn't seem to solve much. When my son gets cranky and starts fussing, I feel that I'm partially to blame for dragging him around shopping all day instead of letting him nap, or run around. So, I can't justify spanking him when I'm at fault for not considering his needs as being a 2-year old. Anyways, I just wanted to let you know that I agree with you about not spanking and thank you for your opinion :)

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Thanks, Melissa! For some reason, people confuse spanking with discipline. So, they assume those of us who don't agree with it, don't expect our children to follow rules and they are just running wild. Nothing could be further from the truth. We put a lot more thought and creativity into how best to mold our child's character, than it would take to spank them.

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I have to disagree. I completely understand with you're reasoning but I was also spanked as a child and I turned out completely fine as did my siblings. I have to respond to your question "Is it worth it to take a chance?" In my opinion you are taking a chance either way. What if you don't spank your child and your child doesn't respond to timeout always? What if your child never learns discipline from always using the more passive or subtle approach? What if your child ends up in jail or worse because they were told but never really taught right from wrong? To me it's definitely worth it however I do agree that spanking should not be used everytime and should be done with love. No parent is perfect, we all just try as best we can with what we have or know.

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Hmm... I never considered the possibility that my kids could wind up in prison because I didn't choose spanking as my form of discipline. I'd be willing to bet that the overwhelming majority of prisoners WERE spanked. So, I don't follow your reasoning on that. My sibs and I turned out fine, too, and we know our parents love us. That's not the point. My parents did lots of things I choose not to do and I turned out just fine. That doesn't mean I feel like I have to do what they did to raise productive citizens. It's a choice. There are MANY ways to discipline besides spanking and timeout. If timeout doesn't work for my child, I use something different. That's NOT passive parenting. It takes a lot of effort and thought on my part. For instance, a kid I know was really getting into trouble at school. He was fighting. So, his parents decided the whole family would take Tae Kwon Do. They basically did a family intervention for this kid and it worked brilliantly. The whole family took TKD for several weeks and then, just him. That's been about 4 years ago. This kid is amazing and teaches other students now at 13 years old. Now, as a 9 year old, he could've just gotten a spanking. That's true. And, maybe he would've stopped fighting... i seriously doubt it. But, the whole family getting involved and channelling his energy into something positive has now given him a true passion to focus on. He feels invested in and he feels his family's pride. Their choice has probably given him his future occupation. That's NOT passive. I hate it when people who spank insinuate that. It's simply not true. I don't state you're aggressive for spanking, because it's not necessarily true. And, vice-versa.

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Parents often find and use the easiest method possible. It is sooo hard to be patient all of the time and I certainly am not. Ofcourse a child will bend to your will with a spanking, it hurts, it is demeaning, they are helpless to do anything. As a parent of a very spirited boy I teach him to make his own decisions without the fear of being hurt by the person who should love him most. As a baby I would physically remove him over and over and over until he understood and spank would've done the trick just the same. If my son ends up in prison I will not blame spanking or not spanking, that seems so ridiculous. Wouldn't it be nice if life were so cut and dry like that? We all care about the outcome of our children but alot of this seems like the easy way to discipline & justify hitting your child.

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I agree 100%, Christina. I feel so strongly about this issue and am glad we have people represented here that are not afraid to go against the grain. Thanks for speaking up!

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I would like to point out, that the "spare the rod spoil the child" statement that's been floating around forever has been largely misinterpreted. This came from the bible, and in those days, the rod was another word for a staff. As in a shepherds staff to guide the sheep. I.E., guide your children in the right way to go. I would also like to point out, that some children really don't need spanking, because they're generally good children and pay attention when you sit them down and talk to them, however some like to test their boundaries more than others. Most of the time, by the time a child is five or so, they know and understand the rules, but how can you explain to a 3 year old, that if they run into the street or climb onto a chair and grab a knife out of the sink that this will hurt them. Most parents who spank don't do so to be violent, they do so because they're terrified of their child getting hurt, and have either told the child already multiple times not to do that, or don't know any other way to direct their actions. To each his own.

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Thank you Deborah! Your explaination of "spare the rod" was excellent and a breath of fresh air! However, when it comes to children who are hit they need a voice. One person's tap is another person's swat is another person's spanking is another person's beating is another person's....you get the idea. So the idea of "to each his own" is dangerous when applied to how you "hit" your child. It's not just YOUR business if you decide to hit your kid, just like it isn't just your business if you decide to hit your mother or brother or father.

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I agree, Christina.

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Tealrose, I have tried to find your original post to respond directly to you. You are being quite rude, and insensitive of others OPINIONS. Do we consistently tell you that you are WRONG in your opinion? No, my dear, we most definitely do not. Every one who's responded to you has done so with the utmost respect and control. How DARE you attack every woman on here who has offered the opinion that spanking, in a disciplinary manner, is not an issue? How DARE you tell them that they are horrible parents, and don't deserve a dog, much less children? How can you even compare an interaction between to cognitive adults and between an adult and a child? They are two totally different situations, not comparable at all. It is quite obvious that you were beaten as a child. NOT SPANKED. Spanking is hand to behind, one, maybe two swats. Nothing to leave a mark, nothing to be upset about after you've explained yourself to your child, which is EXACTLY HOW I DID IT. Actually, I explained BEFORE punishment started. Feel free to message my kids, and ask them how they feel about it! They'll tell you, they understood then, and still understand that it was done out of love, not hatred. Your parents very obviously had a different view. However, you need to step back a bit. As you've stated, you're in your mid 50's. You were raised when BEATING was common. There is a HUGE difference between beating and spanking, dear lady. I know, as my mother BEAT, my father SPANKED. Huge, HUGE difference. Please note that I have NEVER said that you are WRONG for your views, or that you are a HORRIBLE parent for not using physical discipline. You chose passive, and it worked for you. It doesn't work for all! I respect your choice, now, you need to get some therapy for your past abuse issues, and respect the rest of us who don't agree with your opinion. This is a forum, not a dictatorship, thank God!

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Thank you so much Shawnn! I can speak from both sides because I was ABUSED. I had extension cords, studded belts, fists, and was even thrown against a few walls. It made me act violent and defiant. Key word is that I was abused. Once I was removed from my mother and my grandparents took care of me I was spanked because all other methods were exhausted and they were going to lose me soon to the streets of New York. My grandparents began to spank (not beat) me. They sent me to a Catholic school where they used the paddle. When I ran away (again being defiant against my mom) he actually looked for me and spanked me because I left. As a preteen I could tell that he actually loved me. I can see the desperation in him trying to save me. I thank both of them now more than ever because I have turned my life around, and have a wonderful respectful family of my own. Do I spank.....rarely. Why is it rarely....because my kids know who's the parent and I don't have to repeat myself. Are my kids scared of me.....not at all, just like I wasn't scared of my grandparents. But I feared the punishment which made me change my behavior. How can you be so God fearing that you cast judgement for those that spank their child. Save your judgement for those who are actually being abused.....there are plenty of them out there that needs your prayers. Not the ones that get popped on the hand or 1 or 2 swats on the behind. No one is wrong for how they feel as long as it's not abusive.....but don't judge people just because you disagree. Honey you.....like me was abused. You need to do what I did and get counseling for those issues. Until then the inner turmoil you are going through will haunt you for the rest of your days. You will become a better person for getting the help that you need. Good luck to you

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NO ONE here is suggesting that spanking should be the first disciplinary method used with a child. In fact, most people are suggesting quite the opposite-- that spanking be used as a last resort when nothing else works. It has already been acknowledged by those on both sides that spanking is not necessary or effective when used on sensitive children, so there is no need for you to reiterate it. But not all children are going to be like you were, and sometimes there isn't "ANY other way to teach them." What would you suggest when no other disciplinary method works? Any emotional harm caused by spanking would be miniscule, extremely rare, short-lived, and much, MUCH better than the alternative... a child whose defiance and severe misbehavior is allowed not only to continue, but to escalate. Jennifer, spanking IS discipline. The issue is that people are confusing it with beating or abuse. No one is assuming that if you don't agree with it, your children are "running wild." No one is calling you a passive parent. In fact, they are assuming quite the opposite-- that your children are actually very well behaved because they respond to some other disciplinary method and therefore don't need spanking. That is why you are a member of the "anti-spanking" crew-- because you have not been in the shoes of someone from the other side. You haven't experienced what it is like to try so hard to find a disciplinary method that will work with your children, only to find that spanking is the only one. I have known PLENTY of parents who have disagreed with spanking, UNTIL their children's misbehavior got out of hand, and literally every other method (their own VERY creative ideas, ideas from popular parenting books and websites, ideas that they learned from specialists to whom they paid thousands of dollars) they tried was simply not effective. Children can grow up to become criminals regardless of the disciplinary method that their parents used with them. You've missed the point that is being made-- that they will be more likely to go that route if INEFFECTIVE disciplinary methods were used. Regardless of the method, if it doesn't take, the child's behavior WILL get worse, and they will grow up without ever having really learned that their behavior is wrong and can have undesirable consequences. And really? You believe that the "overwhelming majority" of prisoners were spanked? Sigh. As someone who has spent six years of my life (so far) earning my PhD and working in the field, it always sets me off when someone matter-of-factly "bets" on a link between two things that have already been researched ad finitum with no link to be found. Don't you think that if this were true, that by now it would be published and widely acknowledged as fact? I mean, really, talk about an amateur idea for a research project... And with all the psychological and sociological research that has been done on criminals, if that were actually anywhere near true the study would be famous by now, as well as groundbreaking research paper published along with it. The reality is, in all the research that has been done on the link between corporal punishment and adult crime (as well as juvenile deliquency and the tendency to drop out of school early), and no conclusive link has ever been found (I'll let you Google it). There is a well known correlation between criminal activity and violent physical abuse, but this is a different story. Finally, if you don't appreciate someone insinuating that you are a passive parent because you are against spanking, they perhaps you shouldn't insinuate that parents who do use or are not opposed to using spanking are somehow not creative or just looking for the quick fix. This is quite hypocritical and quite frankly, you have NO IDEA. The story about the Tae Kwon Do is great. It was a creative idea and it worked for that family, but not everyone is that lucky, and it's NOT for lack of trying. I have both seen first hand and read case studies about families who have tried many very creative approaches that took A LOT of effort, each time with high hopes, only to find that they just DIDN'T WORK. When you have seen a family spend YEARS working on their child's behavioral problems unsuccessfully, racking their brains for every last idea, paying a fortune to the most well-respected specialist in their area, and the behavior problems only get WORSE, THEN maybe you can talk. But until then, how DARE you lump together all parents who have used spanking to discipline their children, and even worse, accuse them of putting less thought and creativity into their parenting than you do! If you are so offended that someone would lump all of you who are against spanking and call you passive, then why would you turn around and do the exact same thing, unless you wanted to be blatantly hypocritical?

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Also, how convenient for so many of you to blame the many problems that you have experienced as adults on the spanking that you experienced as a child. I think that some of you were actually abused, not administered controlled spankings, and simply don't understand the difference, but I also believe that many of you are using it as a scapegoat.

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Oh TealRose, so dramatic. I feel so horribly for your parents... if they really did only spank, and not physically abuse you, then I hope you realize one day that it is YOU that has ruined the relationship. YOU have some very serious issues that YOU need to get help for. Not your parents. Unless it was actually abuse and not spanking, or if they misused spanking as a method of punishment and just spanked you for no good reason (also a completely different issue), they you are seriously overreacting. You sound quite like a child that is protesting being grounded or having her toys taken away (or being spanked!) when you have seriously misbehaved because you believe it to be unfair, when really your not-yet-developed brain and immature personality is simply causing you to overreact. It is as though you are still carrying around that idea that all children have, that having to endure anything that they don't like, or doesn't result in them getting their way must be unfair. As I read your last post I just had to shake my head... so full of rage, so confused and misguided. Hopefully in time you can discover what is REALLY causing these issues, and make peace with it. Spanking does not teach that "hitting is the way you deal with things/people when you don't like what they said or did," and no one suggested this but you. It teaches that if they do something WRONG, there are consequences. This is the purpose of any punishment, of which spanking is just another form. As it has been mentioned before, spanking should not be the go-to move when misbehavior occurs, though for many children, it is the only one that works (discovered only after a trial and error process with MANY other methods of punishment). Also, please stop calling spanking "hitting." Hitting and spanking are not the same anymore than a rectangle and a square are the same. Spanking falls into the category of hitting, just like playfully punching your friend on the shoulder, but the category of hitting also encompasses much worse acts of violence. Calling spanking "hitting," or using any more general term to describe something when a more specific one exists, is misleading and false. Some thoughts on/answers to your many (ridiculous) questions: 1. Smoking has been scientifically PROVEN to cause lasting physical damage to the mouth and lungs. Spanking has not been proven to cause any kind of lasting (or even short-term) damage (one person's experience is not "proof," not by a long shot). 2. When spanking (or any method of discipline, really) does not work, you try different disciplinary methods until something does work. 3. Why do it? Because after they have exhausted every other method, most people would want to try the last one that remains (spanking) before seeking help in the form of a residential treatment facility, or some other extreme measure. 4. What makes a child deserve a spanking, and not the parent, the bank manager, the criminal or the animal? Sigh. First of all, maybe all of these unrelated entities do deserve their own separate punishments, but that is for the authorities to which they all report to decide and administer, and it has nothing to do with the child, or the parent, who is the authority over the child. The parent is not the authority over the other entities, nor are they related in any way, so the parent does not need to decide if anyone other than the child deserves a spanking, much less who deserves it more or less. 5. Again, a difference between "hitting" and "spanking," but if a child spanks the parent following a spanking, you discipline him in the same way you would if he had hit you any other time. If he expresses confusion over the fact that you you were allowed to spank him and he is not allowed to spank you, you explain to him how parents are allowed to do plenty of things that children like him are not, just like you would explain to him if he wanted to know why you are allowed to take his toys away as punishment, but he is not allowed to take your posessions out of your room, or why he is not allowed to touch the oven or stove despite the fact that you do it every night when preparing dinner. 6. If that child is 18 or older, than that is his or her prerogative. Otherwise, that child is considered a runaway, and in some states would be breaking the law. 7. If you are told by the child, whether that child has since grown up or not, that he or she was "not okay" with any of your parenting tactics, you say "too bad." "I am your parent, and you were/are a minor," you say to the child, "and so I get to choose how you are raised, so long as it is within the confines of the law." Children are not in charge of their upbringing, their parents are. There are a lot of things that kids are not okay with, but unless they are illegal, there is nothing that child can do about it. Can you imagine children weren't made to do anything that they were "not okay" with? It would be absolute chaos. 8. "That child" (I assume at this point that we're talking about you, but I'll play along) has far worse problems than could ever be caused by a simple spanking here and there. If that child is not confusing beating and physical abuse with spanking, then there is something else seriously wrong there. As you mentioned, there are issues with fear and anger at work, perhaps some kind of mental or emotional disorder, sociopathy, I'm not sure... but up until the most recent generation spanking has been the norm, yet most people are well adjusted and on good terms with their parents... they are not hell-bent on destroying their relationship forever, nor are they "seething with fear and anger," as you have described. Conversations like the one you are describing are generally unheard of and would be regarded by most as insanely blown out of proportion. You've left a great deal of comments on this topic, and I have to say... your "arguments" consist of nothing more than rude and condescending tirades in which you never respond to any of the actual points put forth by the other side... only the words that you have put in everyone else's mouths! You address questions to those on the other side of the argument, and then you proceed to suggest what you believe their (ridiculous and offensive) answers will be before they have even had time to respond. For example, you posed the following question: What do you do when spanking doesn't work? and put words in the rest of our mouths by that we would suggest to hit harder or longer as an answer. I don't doubt that you have some very deep-seeded issues, but I don't think spanking itself is to blame. Perhaps, as I have mentioned and others have suspected, you were abused, in which case it is okay to have these feelings. But if they did not, and they only spanked you when you misbehaved repeatedly, then I apologize if this isn't what you want to hear but you are not justified in ruining that relationship. I pray that one day you will wake up and see the light, apologize and make things right with them before it is too late. Think about how awful it would be to have to live with what you did for the rest of your life simply because you were to stubborn to admit that you were wrong... again, I hope you get help so that you can stop torturing your poor parents and live a happy life again.

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Rikki Tucker, perfect said. Thank you.

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Wow, Beth Kelly... seems as I've hit a nerve with you by having a different opinion! I think there were some things you didn't understand in my post. For instance, my comment that some confuse spanking with discipline did NOT mean that spanking wasn't discipline, as you interpreted it. It was in response to a previous poster who said that those of us who did not spank were not disciplining our children and that children need 'discipline'. My point was that there are other ways to discipline and I just might have to be a little more creative and take a little more time to come up with something. NOT insinuating that spankers lack creativity in any way shape or form and NOT saying that spanking isn't a form of discipline. Also, I do not care about your PhD and will not compare academic credentials with you. That's irrelevant on Circle of Moms and does not make your opinion hold weight. Although, congratulations on your education and I think it's great that you are driven to excel educationally. Now, about the 'passive parents' statement I made. My point was, again, in response to a previous poster calling those who spank 'passive'. And, I stated very clearly that I would never call someone who spanks, aggressive. I seriously don't think you read all the posts or you probably would've understood more of my points. These were NOT meant to attack someone with a differing opinion. You're entitled to it. Insinuating that I'm part of the 'anti-spanking crew' is condescending and untrue. My opinion is exactly that... MY OPINION. If you don't like it, that's fine. But, don't lump me in with some crew with an agenda. That's NOT me. You don't know me. And, believe me, I've done a Google search or two before in my career. You speak to those who disagree with you like they are stupid. It is not necessary. Finally, my comment about those who are in prison was IN RESPONSE to a previous poster who informed me that I was taking a chance on my kids landing in prison by not spanking them. Since most adult people have been spanked in their lives, that was an illogical proposition. This was a theoretical statement, not a statement of fact! Your point that 'studies have shown no correlation between spanking and being in prison' is irrelevant. I was NOT stating that spanking causes people to end up in prison. I was NOT making a causitive or correlative point!!! I was merely responding to that poster stating that I was taking a chance that my kid would end up in jail if I didn't spank! Their point couldn't be accurate, if most prisoners were spanked... spanking DIDN'T keep them out of jail! The original poster asked for opinions. I gave mine. I did not attack anyone who disagreed with me. It's an OPINION.

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I raised 4 children and several grandchildren. They are all good kids. No dope. No one is in juvinal hall. The only one that is dead is the one who chose to become a drunk. A good pop on the back side can get their attention. NO NO on behavioral issues. Unless the parents show them the bad stuff. I think parents example will do more damage than a spanking can do.
Such as yelling, throwing bad temper tantrum. Slamming doors. Kids are watching. That is how they learn to behave. So watch what you DO or SAY.

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Yes, TealRose!

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a spanking can prevent behavior problems! and i said spanking, not beating...there is a big difference.

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Ok, some of you people are still getting spanking confused with beating, big difference between the 2. It is meant to get their attention, not hurt them. Also, some kids need it sometimes and it's much better to recieve a spanking than 2 get hit in the road. Also, ARE YOU PEOPLE ATHEISTS? AGNOSTICS? I mean, in the bible it says to spare the rod is to spoil the child!!! Why do you think people have been spanking kids for hundreds of years and the kids turn out the way they are supposed to! Also, Dr. Spock taught this stupid stuff about not spanking and guess what? One of his kids commited suicide and the other is in prison. SO...IN YOUR FACE non spanking parents!!! I will spank my children with love.

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Spanking is teaching TealRose.... When I was 7 years old I took a pack of gum from a store while my parents were checking out and after my dad got done busting my behind I learned REALLY quick that you don't take things that don't belong to you. My younger brother also leaned very fast that you dont throw rocks at people's cars after my dad beat the mess out of him. If your form of parenting worked for you then that is AWESOME but you dont have any right whatsoever telling people that they are wrong for making a decision to spank their kids. In all the responses that I have posted today I have never said that people who dont spank are wrong. My whole thing is learn the child and make your discipline choice based on that child or the offense itself. For example, even though my step-daughter can be a little monster sometimes I dont and wont spank her when I ask her to pick something up that she dropped. I would on the other hand pop her if I asked her to do it and she said no. When I am talking to my children and they keep interrupting me by back talking they get a light pop in the mouth and a firm stop talking and listen. My step-daughter has a BIG problem with people telling her what to do because she doesn't think that she should have to listen. She gets her behind popped a lot because of it. She even refuses to say thank you when somebody gives her something. She refuses to say she is sorry about anything as well and yes we force her to do. When she is doing her homework if she doesn't like what she is doing she will stare off into space so I take her hand and make her do her work. When she is eating dinner if she doesn't like what she is eatings she will hold it in her mouth and just chew and chew until we force her to swallow. So you see sometimes you have to force kids to do things. We spank our kids to show them what is acceptable and what is not. We are not brutes who just love pounding on little defenseless kids. The people out there who do tha t(adults who slap, punch, kick, beat to a bloody pulp, break limbs: which is what is supposed to be defind as abuse) deserve to be put in jail where they will get back what they gave out. That is what you are making us sound like. Most times all we have to do is say no or stop that and they listen but other times when they push us they need to be shown that they are not in charge of the situation and they will do what is right. And thank you...whoever just posted that thing about Dr. Spock......

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Michelle, There is a reason none of the pro-spankers are backing this post up. what you are describing is a very oppressive environment. You force her to swallow food? You hold her hand and force her to complete her homework? You call her a little monster? I'm sorry. I have many friends who spank, which I disagree with, but still consider them to be great and loving parents. So, I'm not picking on you because of that. But, this post is disturbing. I believe you that she is a defiant child. Your description of your treatment of her and the way you call her a monster are very troubling... even to some who spank.

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Bravo Michelle!!!! Never seen anyone put it as eloquently as you why we mothers that spank...well spank.

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Sorry, but i would have to agree with the two posts above me. I'm not completely against spanking but I think it should be used as a last resort or if the child is putting their own life in danger. Example: Running out into the road where he/she can get hit by cars.

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I'm sorry, but Shawna Austin, you sound like a terribly confused person. The "rod" you referenced in the bible refers to the rod a shepherd would use to guide his sheep, not hit them. The rod was used for guidance, not hitting. Not guiding our children in the right direction, with faith, love, and morality would be spoiling them. The fact that you would spout out negative things about Dr. Spock's children disgusts me; you are essentially blaming his parenting tecniques for the death and incarceration of his children. I have a 3 year old and have never spanked him, nor do I intend to. He responds very well to time-outs and having toys/privileges taken away from him. We also focus more on positive behavior and reinforcement. I understand that not spanking takes more time, effort, and patience. However, I take mothering very seriously and feel that my children deserve my time, effort, and patience.

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WoW Michelle! I believe THAT is the SMARTEST comment here! Some non-spankers are proving the necessity of a spanking with their disrespect. SMH at society and all these VICTIMS we have.

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I agree with Michelle, Elicia and the other pro-spanking moms. The reason why she pointed out Dr Spock's children was to show that even for a person that is against spanking didn't have his family in order either. Everyone will feel how they feel.....for it or against it is up to the parent. Who is anyone here to judge how you discipline your own children. And it's the same ones here quoting or stating things from the bible, that turn and cast the first stone. I wonder what some of you would do if your kids knocked the crap out of you or stole from you. Talking doesn't work for everyone nor every situation. Some of the same parents that are against it would knock the crap out of their kids if they did enough to them. Either that or be forced to call the cops because they were getting the hell beat out of them. I was a Paramedic......I saw it then and I see it all the time being in the Army, and seeing these kids smacking/hitting/kicking their moms with nothing more than a 'stop it'. This is what I saw 2 days ago: (Dad) Ryan come sit down....were in a doctors office.....(Ryan kicks at the dad) don't hit or kick me or your mother now get up off the floor......I'm going to take your toys away when we get home.......(walks up to the dad) *SMACK*....(Mom) you lost your dessert and your toys.........(runs up to mom) *SMACK* (Ryan) shut up....I hate you both don't tell me what to do' The mother cries and puts her head into her hands. What?!? Sad when the parent has no discipline and the child is the parent. He didn't give a damn about losing his stuff. And it was obvious that they never spanked him....so you can't say it's because he was spanked.

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At Shawna, Are you serious? Bringing the old "spare the rod, spoil the child" into this conversation. I am a religious person and do not in no way believe this means God wants me to hit on my children. My children have never been spanked and they are far from spoiled. My daughter is 17, has a job and does great in school. My son is 14 and is a straight A student. I have been complimented on many occasions that my children are well behaved and well mannored children. They do not steal, lie or have been in any trouble. Anyone can take any sentence out of the bible and make it mean what you want it to. I had a Reverend tell me once that where it says "to honor and obey" in the wedding vows means your husband rules the house and you do as he says. This also means he has the right to hit his wife as he would his child if she does not obey. Sorry, but no matter how religious anyone is if you want to believe that crap, I feel sorry for you. I was spanked all the time as a child and all it taught me was fear of my parents, not respect, not to listen or behave, but pure out and out fear. Home is suppose to be a safe place for a child, the outside world is scary enough than to have to be scared in your own home.

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Natalie & Myrtle both make such good sense. Can you agree with both sides? I feel that my behaviour & self esteem has suffered from being smacked as a child by my parents, but when my kids hit me, throw tantrums and scream to the point where I just can't do ANYTHING, I don't know what else to do.. Most of the time my 2 & a 1/2 yr old will not need smacks and I can reason with him quite well by guiding his behaviour in the right direction, but sometimes I go against what I believe & I will smack because I have tried everything else and I just really don't know how to get him to listen and obey. The biggest problems we have is going outside to say bye to Dad in the morning. He never wants to come back inside and I always have to end up picking him up kicking and screaming and try to get inside and get the door locked before he overpowers me. I don't know how strong other 2 yr old boys are but if I'm struggling now, what's he going to be like at 5? Any of you non-spanking mothers have kids as defiant as this and have a way to manage it without resorting to a smack? Would LOVE to hear it! Please!

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Michelle, it is people like you who give spanking a bad name! Your post was so disturbing, I can only hope that it was not real, written by a troll as a sick joke or something. If not, then I feel so horrible for your stepdaughter. First of all, what you have described experiencing as a child at the hands of your parents is ABUSE, not spanking. The words you have used to describe this treatment say it all-- "busting your behind" and "beating the mess" out of your brother... both of these phrases indicate excessive force and BEATING, not spanking! Second, your stepdaughter does not sound at all like a "little monster," and I am horrified at your treatment of her. Forcing her to swallow food? How, pray tell, would you do that without potentially choking her? And "popping" them in the mouth? You should NEVER hit a child in their face, for backtalking or anything else, it is totally inappropriate. I guess it's a good thing that you "don't and won't" spank her when she's dropped something, but you shouldn't even have to mention that... obviously you should never discipline a child at all for DROPPING something, because dropping something is an accident, not misbehavior! And "staring off into space" when doing homework isn't either! Perhaps she was just THINKING about the questions/problems or what to write next, or maybe she was just taking a break from writing. I can just picture you, standing over her watching like a hawk for the moment she stops writing so you can swoop in, grab her hand and "make her do the work," whatever that entails... it just sends shivers down my spine. Perhaps she doesn't say sorry or thank you because she is just to terrified to utter a word around you. I can't believe that anyone here would back you up, but maybe they didn't read your whole post. I'm still in disbelief about some of the horrible things you have admitted to doing to that poor little girl in the name of discipline... hopefully her real mother is still in her life to provide compassion and love.

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Take it from someone who was abused as a child by my mother... I do not Ever remember being smacked by my Mother and i am absolutely sure I was, as were my siblings. I do however remember the abuse... I am myself pro smacking... I believe a smack is a useful tool... only to be used when all else has failed and not in anger... I believe that the older the child the more methods are open to you to use... My children remember well the catch phrase I used to use as a warning... "do you want to join the red hand gang"?

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lol i love how people like to quote the old spare the rod spoil the child quote when alot of the bibles teachings are not literal but metephorical and what spoil the rod spare the child could actually mean is to discipline your child not literally go get a rod and hit your kid with it because if you are taking this quote literally as it is written then you are doing it wrong because it says rod not hand, maybe you should do a little more bible study. The bible also says doing something that you feel is wrong is sinning so if you feel spanking is okay and is perfectly fine then good for you but for someone who truly believes it is wrong it would be impossible for them to do it without feeling they did something wrong. Also, one of my most fav quotes is don't judge lest ye be judged, meaning don't think someone is bad or doing something the wrong way because thats not how you think it should be done God is the ultimate judge lets all let him be in charge of that are an leave the arguments of whose right and wrong up to him.

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I spanked my five children but not in every circumstance or through all ages of their childhood. Some of them needed them often and early on in the day, others didn't ever need one until they were older and only needed the one every month if not less frequent. Every child has their own needs and personality. Parents should be sensitive to the needs of each child throughout their different stages of growth. Most of all, a spanking should never be done in anger but in love and after punishment is done, followed with hugs and love. To bring up the offense over and over with words all day long or throughout the week is like a never ending punishment in my opinion.

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Well hopefully your husband would not put you in time out either. That would be pretty belittling wouldn't it. Your argument makes no sense.

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Ashton, that's funny! I laughed so hard when I read your post! I spank my 12 yr old as needed (probably not enough, lol) and my 14 month old get his hands popped when he tries to grab something he shouldn't (ie: my necklace, eye glasses or anything that could hurt him). I don't hurt my kids just make them understand that you can't do somethings. When my baby goes for my necklace or glasses I tell him no and move his hand away. Usually he stops but sometimes he gets aggressive trying to pull on it. Even tries to reach down my shirt if I try to hide it. I pop his hand, he looks at me, pokes his lip out and moves on. I don't have to pop hard enough to make him cry to get my point across. My oldest son gets spankings when he's lied but not if he tells the truth about what he did to get in trouble. He doesn't get them often b/c overall he's a good kid. Taking things away from him NEVER did any good. I think both parenting strategies ( to spank or not ) can be effective. Just depends on the child/parent/offense. It should be a last resort.

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Husband time out!!! LOL

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lmbo @ Ashton! Love it!

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YEAH GO ASHTON!! You cannot compare a relationship between 2 adults to a relationship between adult and child. A child has to be taught how to behave in order to make friends, get jobs, and generally to be successful in life. As parents, your responsibility is to bring your kids up to be a benefit to this world, not to be a burden, and if the only way some children will listen and take it in is to be smacked then so be it. I would rather be caring & considerate of others and be smacked than to be an arrogant arse who has no friends, and I've seen soooo many kids who've never been smacked turn out as the latter..

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TealRose, an oxymoron is the combination of two words that are exact polar opposites, which "spanking" and "love" are not. The recommendation to "always spank with love" that many are repeating is misleading, I'll admit, but it only means to never spank a child when you are angry (really, you should try to never be angry around your child at all, but that's not realistic). A spanking can be given out of love. Any discipline is administered out of love. The desire to teach your child right from wrong is born out of love. Think about it... if you didn't love or care about your child, you would give up and walk away when they continued misbehaving and defying your orders. If you really loved them, you would continue working with him, using different methods of discipline that might include spanking. In the end, he will be better for it.

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And I really wish people would give it a rest with the comparisons to assault/domestic violence/spousal abuse. It is a totally nonsensical and irrelevant comparison that just makes your arguments appear weaker because of how ridiculous it is.

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as children, my brothers and I were disciplined in this way, and we, in turn, did the same to our children. it was an act of LOVE, for if they were not taught right from wrong, what were they to grow up to know>we were NOT beat, we were spanked. AND , there is a great difference. once the punishment was administered, many times, I can remember my father taking me in his knee, and, with tears gleaming in his eyes, telling me,"this hurt me more than it did you, but, you have to understand.. what you did was wrong"!! as you can see, I had the BEST DAD in the world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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if a man hits his wife is that out of love too? can I use that in court?

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There is a WOLRD of difference between popping a child once on the butt to get their attention and between one adult hitting another. To suggest otherwise is either sheer stupidity or being deliberately obtuse. With adult/adult interaction you can speak to the adult and have them fully understand what you are telling them. An adult is not going to blindly run into the street, or chase the neighbors dog, or try to open a bottle of cleaning solution and drink it etc.; children will. You don't beat your children, they should never be bruised or frightened and their butts aren't meant for you to vent your frustrations on. That being said something a smack to the hand or sharp swat on the behind gets their attention in a far more memorable way then a million explanations ever could, decreasing the number of time they repeat a particular dangerous action. My daughter does get spanked for outright defiance but she is always given other punishments first, a lecture, a time out, toys taken away, shows turned off etc. and she is given a warning before it happens so there is a last chance to correct the behaviour before she gets spanked. In our house a spanking is one sharp slap on the butt, over her clothes. It doesn't really hurt her, (hell considering how many layers some of her dresses have it probably hurts my hand more than her butt!) but it does get her attention and stop the behaviour. Afterward she gets hugs and told mommy loves her and (usually for the 5th time or so) another explanation of why she can't do what she did.

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A"swat," "pop," "smack" all mean hitting to inflict pain. There are no "good" reasons to cause a child or anyone else pain.

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Jennifer, I agree with you. Everyone was raised differently which is where their beliefs stem from. Your experiences shaped what you think and why. I was smacked as a child and can honestly say it was the right thing for me and my siblings. We were a handful! Because of the way my parents raised us and disciplined us, we ve grown into the people we are today and I love my parents for the person I am today. I wouldn't change a thing. As a direct result of this form of discipline, before I do anything, I always think about the consequences of what I'm about to do. I learnt about action/reaction and consequences for my behaviour. I also understand not everybody shares this sentiment. At the end of the day, it works for some people, it doesn't for others and it will never be a topic that is universally agreed upon. I think people need to respect others opinions and beliefs on the matter.

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Leslie, a quick and controlled spank on the butt does not cause a child nearly as much pain as the other painful experiences that they endure in every day life... falling down on the playground, having their tangled hair combed after a bath, getting a shot at the doctor, just to name a few! Children who experience the aforementioned events often cry, however children who have been spanked (not beaten, but spanked) will rarely cry, and if they do it is more in reaction to being disciplined in the first place. Can you really say, without lying, that you have never allowed anything to happen to your child that caused them some amount of physical discomfort or pain? Pain is just a part of life, and is often necessary for children to experience in order to ensure their safety. Many children, no matter many times you pull them back and say "don't do that sweetie, you'll hurt yourself," will not back down from whatever they were trying to do. One day when you aren't quick enough to come "save" them, they will succeed in their efforts, only to find that, "Ouch! That hurts!" This is how they begin to learn that they can trust what you say to be true. I guarantee that you've all had some sort of experience like this, so please don't tell me that there is no good reason to allow a child to experience pain... this is like saying that pain serves no legitimate purpose, and that's simply not true!

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I spanked both of my girls when they ran into the road, more than once. Told them the first time NO and if you ever ever go in again I WILL spank you. And I did on 2 occassions (1 for each child) spank their bottom. They never went into the road alone again. They were never hit by a car either. A swat with a parents hand on the fanny of a child is not abusive. It's not beating and it's the only way to instill some things on the very young. I DETEST the parents that sit there saying "No Johnny, don't hit your sister" "No Johnny don't hit your sister" over and over meanwhile he's still hitting his sister? INsane. How do all animals teach their young? Cause and effect. Some learn by listening, others need physical reinforcement. We're all different.

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Like I said, why is it not ok for a child to hit another child, but it is ok for an adult to hit a child as discipline.. Nope, can't make sense out of that one.. Both are wrong.

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Hi Alisha, I can help with that. A child hits another child as an act gratuitous violence. Someone is being victimised for no reason other than a rather negative tendency of human nature. Many kids develop like that until they are 'toddler tamed'. If left unrestrained it can be a lifelong trait. A parent lovingly smacks a child to guide them toward positive character and to protect their sibling from gratuitous violence. Does that help you understand the difference? Hopefully now you will see why the second is actually right not wrong.

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That loving smack also reinforces that when he hits his sister he is hurting her... while the swat he gets is more than likely not as hard as he has hit his sister it still gets the point across. I would much rather pop the back of my child's hand when she reaches for a hot stove or pot than allow her to touch it by standing there saying, "no sweety that's hot!". I have three children, two over 18 and one who is 15 and still at home. They were spanked as they grew up and are productive members of society. I think once a child is at the age a firm swat doesn't faze them it's time to move on to other forms but by then they understand reason and can be talked to about the whys of their punishment.

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I have 2 beautiful daughters who were never hit by a car and never hit by me!!! It's called common sense to teach not to hit by Not hitting!

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The words 'loving' and 'smack' should never be used in the same sentence together. There is nothing loving about smacking a child.

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I had alot of crazy spanking in my childhood, and I firmly believe that it does not cause long term behavioral issues.

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TOTALLY agree!

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I was spanked and survived really well with good morals, principles, values, rules, regulations and boundaries. My son is the same. This was not abuse. This was discipline. Without discipline we are absolutely nothing. And discipline starts with the parents. However - if the parents have no self discipline, morals, principles, values, rules, regulations and boundaries, there is absolutely no hope for their offspring.

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Tanner I agree with you... if the parents have no self discipline, morals, principles, values, rules, regulations and boundaries then the kid/s don't have much of a chance.

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The problem comes when parents waiver in their words. The Bible says, let your yes be yes and your no be no. Kids will test you on that. If you are firm in your no's your kids will be less testy in the long run. So many parents say no and then change their minds when their kid gets whiny. Well, when they get older they start in on the whiny because they figured out they could get their way. Parents get frustrated and spank. If you are firm with your yes and nos you will teach your child you mean what you say and don't have to resort to spanking out of frustration.

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Awesome, TealRose!

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Oooh, you all can look up a word in the dictionary! Fancy. Seriously, though, the whole "the definition of the word ____ is ____, it's in the dictionary so I'm right!" defense is really getting old. Yes, to discipline means to teach, good job. But you are forgetting that there are countless ways to teach a child. Punishment can be a form of discipline. It is your OPINION if you believe the two are disconnected, but another widely accepted opinion is that the two go hand in hand.

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To spank or not to spank...I would put this argument right up there with religion and politics....People either agree or disagree with it and you are going to have a hard time convincing them otherwise. I personally see nothing wrong with spanking as long as it is not the only method of correction. I have seen results when I use it and I have seen results when I don't use it... It just depends on the situation and my daughters development. My daughter is defiantly a happy loving child and we have many moments where we just give each other "sugar". She knows that I love her and she is not afraid of me. She does not think that hitting people with no reason is OK because she understands that spanking come as a direct result of misbehavior and for correction in certain relationships (parent-child and not peer-peer). I know that she is being taught that some actions will carry more serious consequences than others AND that different relationships work in different ways. I think if spanking is adversely affecting a child it is being accompanied by other negative behaviors from the parents..in other words spanking is not the problem here, its a side effect of a problem and the issues run much deeper.

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Well said!

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Thanks for the concern TealRose and I am glad you were finally able to express your feelings to your mom before she passed... Yes my daughter is very happy.. she is very expressive and is not afraid to speak her mind. I don't know your situation but I do know enough to say this...no one can cover up feelings like that for such a long period of time without giving signs of whats actually taking place...so on that note 1. My daughter and I do a lot of talking - spanking never ends there we talk about what happened and how we feel and 2. I pay attention to my daughter and whats going on with her. BTW as far as hitting another adult, its not my place to discipline an adult, neither am I responsible for teaching an adult right from wrong.

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NO kind of disciplinary action is considered "LOVING" by a child. Whether its "NO", time out, removed privileges or, God forbid, SPANKING - it all means they not going to have their way. The thing that actually scares my daughter is when I speak firmly to her (not shouting before u get any crazy ideas), she hates that tone and it makes her cry AND she tells me she does not like it. She is more startled than anything when she is spanked. I used to teach and I never spanked the children I taught, I would not spank someone else's child because that's the parents job not mine. Clearly your sister is dealing with people who do not have the same mental capacity as a person with a normally functioning brain so they will not be taught in the same way.. this point seems pretty out of context to me... My mom once gave me a fine whipping when I was a teenager and I was ANGRY! But I RESPECTED her, she was disciplining me and I accepted that. She is also my best friend who I talk to twice a day. BTW men with dual lives give signs...wives sometimes refuse to see whats in front of them and this facilities the lies. So this has nothing to do with hidden feelings but with people not seeing/accepting what is going on in front their eyes

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You do not know my mother so you have no right to talk about what she has or has not taught me. I will say that she has done, and is doing an excellent job as a parent and because of that I have developed many different skills, morals and standards, among them, self respect, independence, obedience, kindness, how to tie my shoe and even how to pick a good man....I am a well adjusted member of society, I have never gone to jail or therapy, and I have a wonderful family of my own. I trust my instincts and I intend to raise my children to be the same, well adjusted members of society. Like I said in the beginning of my VERY first post this argument is like politics or religion and if my child needs a pat on the behind sometimes to get her straight I will give it.

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PS TealRose why are you harassing the people on this thread who are pro spanking? Bullying people with what you believe will not get you any respect.

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Denise, My son is very much like that. He is only 3 but he is fine with speaking his mind. While I was putting him to bed the other night he talked to me about spanking. It seems weird having the heart to heart with a 3 year old about a topic that some adults (albeit a minority) don't seem to understand and him apparently understanding any answers he sought. Hopefully it means he will be both emotionally adjusted and intelligent. I agree with your comments about an adult. As I have said in previous comments I totally don't relate to conflating what is appropriate for an adult with what is appropriate for a kid. It would be a criminal assault to hold down an adult and vaccinate them because we thought it was in their medical interests but that doesn't make it wrong to do it to a kid. It would be a humiliating breach of civil liberties if we grabbed an adult by the hand because we thought that they wouldn't cross the road safely but that doesn't mean we should let toddlers cross the road alone. So would we apply adult standards to a child who we are responsible for teaching right and wrong?

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Every time I read the word "seething" in TealRose's posts it sends shiver down my spine... I wouldn't want to be caught in a dark alley with her. She reminds me of the little girl from "The Bad Seed," who was just born a very angry and evil little girl with a lot of issues that no one could correct

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Good parents killed by bad kids: Daniel Bartlam, Kip Kinkel (sister says their parents never spanked them), Jacob Cobb (mom pestered him to play Yahtzee! on Christmas!), Derek & Alex King, Ashleigh & Holly Robinson, Heather Wendorf & Roderick Ferrel, Adrian Navarro-Canales, Brian Blackwell, Bryan & David Freeman, David Bain, Qi Ping, Parents killed for disapproval of teen daughter's boyfriend: Penny Caffy, Marc & Debra Richardson, in Canada, Dixie Lee Hollier, Joanne Witt, Parents killed over Playstation/video games: Rashida Anderson, "I really miss my mom. ... She was the only person who cared for me." - Kendall Anderson (Rashida's killer), Gretchen Crooks, (13 yr old Noah Crooks had video game taken from him due to bad grades), 14 yr old Yaroslav Melnichenko bludgeoned father in his sleep over video games. "Relatives said that the parents had spoiled him, bringing him up with little discipline" Unnamed Saudi 4 year old kills father for refusing to buy him Playstation, Mothers killed over money: Yolanda Holmes, Eva Marie Hobbs, Therese Turpin, Mothers killed over chores: Deborah McVay, (Deborah had threatened to press charges against a school bus driver who had physically put her son in his seat on the bus). Penny Cunningham, (argument over chores) At the rate things are going on this site, I have to wonder if TealRose's mom should be added to this list.

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Why do you want to teach kids that hitting people that are smaller than them is OK? Spanking is abuse of power, no exceptions. It is cruel and doesn't teach anything positive in the long run.

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I agree. I felt victimized by my parents and I recognized the fact that I was small and they were victimizing me.

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I love the VICTIM MENTALITY that goes on in our country today! Your parents, my parents did the best they knew how to raise us all and we as parents are doing our best, RIGHT! We are not victims, we are grown ups and we can say we are not going to do it the way our parents did but we are going to raise good well adjusted kids, NOT MONSTERS that no one can stand to be around. Quit blaming your parents or your kids might just grow up blaming you for everything. Grow up!!!

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I probably don't live in "your country" but it is not "VICTIM MENTALITY" for someone to say that they feel victimized by their parents choices... My mother made a lot of choices that she regrets because she was not sober enough to make different choices. Yeah, she may of being doing "her best" but I am who I am today because I had other positive role models that showed me what love was... (and love is never violent) Though I don't see any point in blaming parents for the past, I do believe that there can be victims but whether you blame your parents or not, why would that have any impact on your own children blaming you... seriously... that makes no sense. I agree though, we now know that hitting, isolation, shaming etc is wrong, so yes, we should change things instead of just making the same mistakes.

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There are two or three of you who keep making this argument, and I have to admit, it is the most ridiculous thing I've seen or heard in a long time. If you honestly believe that your parents were preying on you because you were smaller than they (and you were honestly being SPANKED and not BEATEN), then there is something seriously wrong with you. I wouldn't be surprised if you also play the victim frequently across all areas of your life in an attempt to get pity from others. Are you frustrated that the same thing isn't happening here? I mean, really, all this business about being victimized by your evil parents ("I was so small and defenseless and they hurt me just because they could!") is so ridiculously exagerrated and insulting that it isn't even funny. I stand by my suspicions that those of you who are pursuing this argument either (a) were actually physically abused, or spanked without a legitimate reason, or spanked in conjunction with the administration of verbal/emotional abuse and simply cannot tell the difference between that and the controlled spankings as a last resort for severe misbehavior that are the topic of discussion OR (b) you have some very serious deep-seeded issues with fear and anger that actually have nothing to do with your parents and you are just using the spanking as a scapegoat.

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When your parents FORCED, yes FORCED you to go to bed at 9pm, and yet THEY, yes THEY got to stay up until midnight, they were victimizing you then too, because they were bigger and you were small. When they FORCED you to sit still in a restaurant, just because it was easy for THEM to do, but not you, they also victimized you because you were little. And when they forced you to go to school, it wasn't fair; you were NOT getting paid! Only THEY were! When they put you in a corner, who put THEM in a corner? This can go on and on.

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I was spanked when I was a kid. I dont see the point. I dont spank my kids. To say it is "Done out of love" is so messed up. I agree that there are kids who are harder to handle then others but there are sooo many other, better ways to discipline your kids. And Im NOT confusing abuse with discipline. I know the difference. As a mother of 4 beautiful kids, I have found more successful ways of teaching my kids right from wrong.

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100% agree!

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i agree 100% also, so saying it was out of love makes its ok??? so that means i can go drive to my local bank rob them an when im sitting in front of my judge i can say i did it out of love, HAHAHAHAHA no thats not how things work in the real world

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After enduring a childhood of unearned and unexpected spanking (with a stick the length of a ruler and as thick as a book) by a mother, who was later diagnosed with mental illness, I refuse to touch my son with my hand or anything else. I don't think most people have the self control to teach a child that something is wrong using even the most gentle of spankings. I know it harmed me emotionally and took many years of therapy to address. And, although I am a Bible-believing Christian, I still think the quote of "spare the rod" is a lame excuse for spanking; most of the Bible teaches positive direction and the importance of learning self control and responsibility, but so many Christians bring out this one quote to justify their actions. No one should ever lay a hand on any one else in anger....period.

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Can you explain why Jesus beat those grown men out of the temple? He was also very angry when he did it... I'm just asking since u stated that no one should lay a hand on anyone else in anger. Also you cant go with most of the bible, its all or nothing. Please note that I am not saying that we should beat children in anger.

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I will have to pull out my Bible, but I believe he overturned the tables at the temple...I don't remember anything at all about Jesus beating those men. At any rate, I was commenting on the quote that is often used: "spare the rod, spoil the child" and I wasn't saying that I went with "most of the Bible". I was trying to state that most of the Bible teaches positive direction, self control and responsibility.

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@DeniseAbd-I did look up the passage regarding Jesus at the Temple and my version (NIV) in Matthew 21:12-14 states: "Jesus entered the temple area and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changes and the benches of those selling doves." I didn't read this as beating grown men...but maybe that's me.

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@Denise- Jesus never laid a hand on anyone, according to the Bible. I guess Rita has to forego the use of her brain to be a Christian. All or nothing? Should she give up pork; put a sword through anyone committing adultery; forbid mixing of the cultures; quarantine herself as unclean during that time of the month? Those are all teachings in the Bible and common sense tells us not to continue to follow them.

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Don't forget allowing your husband to sleep with another woman if you are unable to have children!

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The account in John 2 KJV says "And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting: And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables; And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise" I may be wrong but I don't think he stopped to make a whip for fun.

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This forum is not the place for going in depth into the things you mentioned and the different Israelite laws and practices... What I am referring to is an account of Jesus actions.

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Amen, Rita. Good grief.

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God can and does do what he wants. It is not our place to say well "Jesus did it so I can do it." We are servants.

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I can see from your upbringing how you might be confused about spanking. The mothers here who spank their children do not do so out of anger or because they lost their temper. On the contrary, it is always announced to the child beforehand, administered with the hand on a clothed bottom, and controlled to ensure minimal force and consistency. Your mother had a mental illness, and so she spanked you for no reason when you least expected it, and that is horrible, but it is clear that this experience is clouding your ability to judge others who spank their children in a calm, controlled manner as a last resort for continually defiant and potentially dangerous misbehavior. Additionally, I believe what Denise was asking about was the mention of Jesus physically throwing out the vendors that were inside of the temple, which is included in some older translations of the Bible.

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There are a zillion articles on this on Babycenter and all over the internet. Why even ask this question? It's like Circle of Moms was trolling for argumentative responses. It seems like this topic was just meant to inflame and get lots of responses, and I don't think the majority of people reading the replies--and certainly most of those who responded--would have changed their opinions after scanning the responses. Maybe the hidden agenda was to illustrate how many people are against spanking in order to make pro-spankers aware of possible negative repercussions. For the record, I myself choose not to spank though I certainly can understand the reasoning and methods of the pro-spanking camp. But my response to this Q & A is more that it's not a productive question to begin with. It's just divisive and invites lack of respect b/c it involves child safety.

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I believe if this saves even one child from growing up in fear it is well worth it!

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@Cheryl: Oh, please. An exaggeration like that only serves to trivialize REAL child abuse.

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It DEFINITELY trivializes real child abuse. I see articles each day of children who were starved to death or forced to jog to death in the hot sun, or locked up in a dog carrier, none of them spanked though, mind you.

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I spank my kids. I have no problem with saying so. There is definitely a difference between SPANKING and BEATING. If my kids do not listen when I tell them to stop 3 times then the fourth time they get a spanking. I do not like having to repeat myself over and over again. As a parent it is our responsibility to teach our children right from wrong. Time outs do not work for every child. Trust me I have tried everything. My kids do not respond to time outs, taking away toys or even punishment for a day or a week. I was always taught , "He who spareth the rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him correcteth him betimes" (Proverbs 13:24) and "Withhold not correction from a child: for if thou strike him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and deliver his soul from hell." (Proverbs 23:13-14). This is what I have grown up with and I wish to instill the same values in my daughter and son. I do believe some parents take it too far. You have some parents that BEAT their children with hangers, extension cords, boards, basically whatever they can get their hands on. You should never leave bruises or any marks on your child. When it gets to that point, it becomes abuse. As a singe parent I do what I need to do in order to teach my kids what they need to know. My children are very smart and I rarely have to spank them. if you show the child the error in their ways they will appreciate it in the long run. My daughter is almost 6 now and her teachers wanted me to let her test into 2nd grade.My son is almost 2 and is already learning his numbers and alphabet right along with basic spanish.I am very strict and I want my kids to succeed. It starts at home!

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Well as a Christian too I know there is certainly diversity among us. Jesus NEVER told us to hit them in the New Testament but some of us believe that He is God so all God's teachings are attributable to Him. "If you don't want to take time to repeat to a child [who has no better way of learning] then I am sorry." There is a better way - spanking. Works wonders when a kid is determined to kill his sibling or himself. When they are old enough to understand then talking works better. "THAT is what parenting is all about. Taking time and care to discipline ie teach that child right from wrong, not hit it." Hitting is done for disciplining. I've never seen a kid who it didn't assist to learn right and wrong. "The OT tells us many things .. like stoning our wayward sons to death .. and many other things that NONE of us would dream of doing." Again those of us who are significantly away from your end of the Christian diversity believe that Mosaic law no longer applies and fits a time, place and group of people but the rest of the Bible is essential for us. "I believe spanking a child once is taking it too far - after all, if it's illegal to hit you then it should be equally or even more heinous to hit a defenceless child. How about holding a defenceless child down and vaccinating them? Should that get capital punishment? How would you feel if a police officer thought that you couldn't cross the road safely and they publically held your hand across the road? Wouldn't that be a humiliating breach of civil rights? Should we let toddlers make their own way across the road to avoid holding their hands? You can't apply the same standards to adults and children. "My parents lost my love, trust and respect - I don't trust and respect anyone who hits anyone else - and I learned they didn't love me too. And no, the post spanking 'oh we love you' told me nothing, except that they lied, that adults could and would do anything and get away with it, that children didn't matter - along with fear, pain, anger, hate and resentment. NONE of which my parents or any other parents would want their children to learn." I am sorry for you and for your parents that you had that curious reaction. But most people don't have those issues. My parents spanked me and I know they did it out of love. I had pain when I did the wrong thing but no fear (because I just learned the boundaries), no anger and no resentment. The pain went quickly but the lessons lasted a long time. I am grateful that they cared enough about me to teach me how I should behave with this and their fine example. "http://whynottrainachild.com/2011/01/06/spanking-not-gods-will-2/ " Sorry you are entitled to your beliefs but for someone who believes that the Bible is God's Word and that it clearly condones a very practical, useful, loving tool in parenting it looks like secular political correctness trying to justify itself with Christianity - the same type of thing as the explanations that the Christian Swingers Association use to dress their behaviour as Christian. In other words to this type of Christian it looks like poor rationalisations. I'm not ridiculing your beliefs. You are welcome to your opinions but don't expect a conversion. It just doesn't look as convincing to people who don't already share your view.

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1 corinthians 13 teaches us about love. Love for everyone, neighbors, friends, enemies, children. Not just the love between husband and wife. The bible can be misused to support personal beliefs. Spare the rod spoil the child is a misquote. Shepherds use their rods as a guide to nudge the sheep to where they need to get to. Not to beat them. Guidance goes a lot farther. Jesus said His sheep knew his voice. Sheep always followed their shepherds' voices. Like a good shepherd, we should guide our children, so they learn to follow our voices. That way, they can ask themselves in any situation, what would my parents say about it if I do this or that? They can learn right from wrong, and make good choices, not just learn how not to get caught so they don't get punished.

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@TealRose I am christian woman as well and no there isn't any actual text in the Bible that says "Yes you can hit your kids." but there is a passage that says spare the rod, spoil the child. There is also a very very important passage that says honor you mother and father. No Jesus didn'r hit anyone because he didn't have to. He could've taken anyone who opposed him out with a single thought. He wasn't sent here to harm people, he was sent here to save. The one big difference in the parents from then and the parents from today is they DIDNT have a government telling them how to raise their kids. They didn't have to worry about being thrown in jail for telling their kids they couldn't do something. If that had been the case we wouldn't have a population today because all the parents would be in prison. If you know the bible you would know that the adults in bible times put their kids to work in the fields. Those kids had to work right along side their parents to provide for the family. They were more than likely not very defiant because they were not corrupted by TV and radio and video games. We can use all the bible verses we want but NONE of that stuff applies to today child. NO IT ISN"T WRONG TO SPANK YOUR CHILD...sometimes kids need to be spanked. I promise you that if you spent one day with my 7 yr. old step-daughter by the end of the day you'd smack her behind because she is a very strong willed, strong minded, stubborn, and defiant child and she has been from day one. Her teachers at school can't even make her behave in class. Oh and believe me we have tried EVERY form of discipline known to man and the only thing that works is popping her backside. My pastor teaches and strongly encourages his church to have a no tolerance tactic to parenting. You tell them no one time and if they don't listen then you correct them. I'm not the kind of mom that stands there and just keeps saying the same thing over and over again with no intention of doing anything. Those moms INFURIATE me...and its those kids that are always the ones you hear screaming to the top of their lungs in stores. Children were given to us for us to teach and raise but you need to wake up and realize that there are some kids who are born with traits that sre going to cause them to be defiant. Mt step-daughter's mother was a horror to society, never listening to anyone of authority and that is why she ended up getting killed. Her father has his own issues as well with baing stubborn. Her grandmother is another one that has her own issues with having a mindset that nobody tells her what to do. I strongly believe that is why this child is like she is...its genetic...and to keep her out of a juvenile detention center in the future we are going to correct her with the only way that works for her. There is no reinforcement when a 7 yr. old tells an adult that she doesn't care what kind of pain a person has to go through she is going to get what she wants. I got spanked when I was a kid and IT DID NOT MAKE ME STOP LOVING MY PARENTS IT TAUGHT ME WHO WAS IN CHARGE!!! If a child stops loving their parents because they spank them then obviously there is an underlying emotional issue that was there before they spanked them.

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Anyone else find it funny that TealRose doesn't see an issue with repeating oneself over an over to a child that refuses to listen? Uh huh. You do that, but the definition of insanity is to do something over and over again while expecting different results. Unlike the definition of discipline that is being thrown around here, that one is pretty cut and dry. Also TealRose, you're a Christian but you've stated on another post that because your parents spanked you as a child, you no longer love them? Have you not heard of forgiveness, or "honoring thy father and mother?"

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Teal Rose, u need 2 get off ur high horse. ur words ****"You can't apply the same standards to adults and children. "My parents lost my love, trust and respect - I don't trust and respect anyone who hits anyone else - and I learned they didn't love me too. "**** u state u cant apply same standards to adults & children... I'm sure we r sorry u weren't loved as a child & the lies u received,sorry ur life sucked, qnd u dont want that 4 ur children, totally get that... but if it was the opposite and u did learn morals,value, respect, then maybe u would think differently! Each family is different, with different needs...Don't judge as we know its not ok to be prejudice, until u walk a mile in someone elses shoes.

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I have a 4 year old, a 2 year old and a 9 month old. My 4 year old never needed any spanking and a strict or hard no was all that was needed, UNTIL the her younger sister started becoming independent and very strong willed. When the jealously factor came into the picture then it was time to give a swat. The 2 year old hardly needs any, I think she has been spanked 2 times since her 2nd birthday that was because she has attempted to kill the cat a few times. Un-beknownst to her. I dont have to mention the 9 month old. No matter what people say, really spanking if done properly and without force is a reminder, not a punishment. Come on the animal world does ten times worse. They bite there babies, smack, step on, kick. We are only worried about there what will happen to there psychological state after wards and in adult hood. Did anyone else ever think that what you feel about punishment or "dicipline" was determined not by the physical slap but what was said, done, and required at the time of say crime? maybe mom also said derogatory remarks while slapping you, maybe dad, disapproved and looked badly at your behavior and you lost some respect in there eyes. Who knows but it wasnt the slap itself. For every person that says violence breeds violence. Since when is a slap from a concerned parent violence? I fear the culture of Americans is going a bit overboard. There is nothing wrong with some physical corrections, I think and feel that mental abuse is far more abundant and destructive than any slap. I mean slap and not punch, hit, kick, beat, smack... thats not acceptable. I was spanked ONE time in my childhood. ONCE. My siblings a little more but never excessive. None of my family is or will be abusers, no one feels less self confident and everyone has well adjusted children. I for one dont mind spanking, one sibling spanks alot = kid is fine. other sibling is much like me = kid is great. one sibling refuses to spanks= one kid is trouble, the other is great... so there is no conclusive results in what you do its your relationship with your child that matters most, and how you treat them mentally as well as physically.

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you really dont understand do you. some how something bothered you early in your childhood that destroyed your reasoning, and ability to distinguish what violence is and what is not. Go on with your life the way you have I am glad your happy but understand as well that what I am trying to put across is that YOUR way may not always be the right way. Good to know you stand by your belief system but dont shove it down everyones throat as the absolute only way.

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did I SAY that were were animals TealRose? DID I say that we should treat our babies as such. Your blinded by your agenda.

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Hi Martha don't pay any mind to TealRose, she has been harassing everyone on this thread with her belief system and condemning everyone who is thinks that spanking is a legitimate way of disciplining a child.

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Bravo Martha!! Bravo!!

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I agree with what you said about verbal and mental abuse being worse than physical abuse. When I was a child, that seems to be what affected me emotionally the most. Being slapped or spanked...quick and easy. I was spanked and did not think about it again, but if my parents said something hurtful or were constantly getting on to me without showing any positive reinforcements, I would think about their words for weeks and feel like I was worthless. I am an adult now so I know that someone else cannot determine my worth but children do not know that and sometimes do not even learn that as adults. Humans are very emotional creatures. It seems like I read something that says that spanking is just being replaced by verbal abuse. Perhaps excessive spanking is not good. Spankings every once in a while is probably okay. I know plenty of emotionally healthy adults who were spanked as kids. As a parent, I really have not figured out the best way to discipline my children. I do disagree with verbal and mental abuse although I am guilty of it.

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Another poster said something golden......"Would you want your husband to put you on time out?" That would be degrading if you were sitting on the stairs when company came over and when asked why you were there it was because you changed the channel to his football game and he put you on time out. I wonder what the moms that are against spanking would do if they kids smacked or beat the crap out of them. Probably send them to their rooms......if not what would you do? Call the police? Then that would show that the method you used didn't work either. Each person does what fits their situation best. No God fearing person should be judging anyone and how they discipline their child as long as it isn't child abuse.

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I agree with all Martha said.!!

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Natalie, you are comparing apples and oranges all over the place here. First of all the spousal relationship has nothing to do with the relationship between parent and child. Parents are not married to their children, they are not equals. One is the authority figure... I'll let you guess which. Surely it would be embarrassing to be put in time out by your husband, but what the heck does that have to do with anything? Second, "beating the crap" out of someone is not the same as spanking, not even close! If anyone beat the crap out of anyone, child or adult, then yes, the police should be called as well as an ambulance, because that would be ASSAULT. On the other hand, if a child were to spank his parent (which is what I believe you were trying to get at, had you not gotten so carried away in your own wild exaggeration), then the parent should teach him (using whatever methods you normally use to teach your children something they do not already know) that there are some things that parents are allowed to do that children are not (much like touching the oven or stove, drinking wine, the list is endless), and this is one of them. I just have to laugh at your entire post because none of it makes any sense. I would suggest that you try to avoid getting into many arguments in the future unless you are keen on losing.

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What a heated topic. As far as long term behavioral issues? Well i was spanked and so was my brother and the long-term behavioral issue we had was that we were respectful and well behaved children. We respected our elders and were obedient to our parents, not out of fear, but because we learned to respect their authority. there were no other future behavioral issues that either of us experienced. I developed resentment but my brother did not, I developed poor self esteem but my brother did not, but I suspect my issues were a result of abuse I suffered as a child not the result of spanking. Since my brother was spanked as well and was not sexually abused it is reasonable to deduce my issues were not related to spanking. I don't know whether it is right or not to spank but I do believe it is a parents choice and that no one should criticize that choice. And that we should be respectful of that choice. I think people get too self righteous when it comes to kids. We are all doing our best and making decisions for our children based from our love for our children and what we believe is best for them. Some may believe spanking is best and others don't. And people have to remember there is a big difference between spanking and abuse. Hitting a child on the behind is different than beating a child. Even hitting/slapping their face or hand is totally different than abuse. I don't believe that hitting/spanking my children is right, but I have spanked them on occasion for things I felt it was necessary. there are other things that work in most situations, but I wouldn't hesitate to spank should the circumstance arise again. Yes, I would rather hit(spank) my child than have something else terrible happen. There are always going to be circumstances in life that come up that we couldn't have prepared our child for since birth(like the person who said about teaching not to go past the grass, certain life circumstances may have prevented this from being taught, like living in the country where the yard is 5 acres and the nearest neighbor is 3 miles away). We can't always prepare our children for every situation and there are times we need to discipline for safety or anything, and that can be something else that works or it can be spanking. But what is comes down to is that is is your choice, your personal choice and it is not mine or anyone's to judge!

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I have to disagree with your disagree with me since I actually agree with you. I would never hit my children on their face or anywhere else. the only place I have done it is on the bottom and then try to get the backs of the legs and stay away from the spine and only when the situation was life threatening and there was no other immediate way to make them understand their life was in danger. And I respect my kids and treat them as gifts from God and I realize they are only on loan to me from HIM and I need to care for them to the best of my ability and love and protect them with all my heart. But I do not think I have the right to tell anyone that they shouldn't spank. I was spanked as a child and so was brother and neither of us are or were ever violent. My brother does not use any form of spanking as discipline and he is one of the most non-violent men I know. He would not raise his voice to anyone. And he was spanked a lot as a child. I do respect my children enough to protect them. And I believe that any parent believes they are doing right by their kids even if they spank as long as it not abuse. I was not abused by spanking, and neither was my brother so your theory that it perpetuates violence is wrong. If it were true we would be violent people and we are not. It taught us respect. do I choose that method of discipline? No, but does that mean someone who does is wrong? Was my Mom wrong? I don't believe she was. I didn't fear her and I didn't become violent, but I learned from it, as did my brother. Perhaps you were spanked out of anger or frustration and that is your only association with spanking and that should never be how spanking is done. Spanking should be done calmly with a calm explanation and a hug and kiss and I love you. Just like a time out or any other form of discipline. Should a dog be hit? No because they do not have the cognitive ability to understand a calm and reasonable explanation, nor should they be locked in a crate or various other "training" methods because of their lack of cognitive ability. But people do it, and I would say that is more abusive than a mild spank on the bottom with an explanation of what they did that was so wrong or dangerous and a hug and kiss. You can't explain to a dog, and this is the same reason spanking should not be used on a child before they can understand otherwise they are just confused. Again, I am not a proponent of spanking, and do not use it myself as a form or discipline, I use time outs, except in extreme circumstances. But if someone uses it on a daily basis, who am I or you to say they are wrong(again as long as it is being done correctly). We don't have that right to tell other parents what they are doing with their kids is wrong. If we did then I could easily criticize your method of discipline and accuse you of not helping your kids to be the best person they could be. But all we are all doing is trying to raise good people and keep them safe and loved. And if my life was in danger, and I couldn't see it, yes I would be okay for a loved one to hit me and let me know this is serious enough I need to rethink it. But I am unlikely to think it okay to run out in traffic or jump in a creek or any number of other unforeseen circumstances a child might encounter because i am adult and I have learned what is safe and not safe, but if my judgement were suddenly off believe me I would rather be hit than die or seriously hurt someone else. And again I do not agree with hitting a child on the face but that was one of my Mom's preferred method of discipline, and I was hit on the face a lot in my childhood and it was never DANGEROUS. The worst I got was a scrape from her engagement ring once(it was inside her hand and she didn't realize it) and she cried over it with me. Now for me that is not a right choice and obviously not for you either, but for my Mom it was, and it didn't harm me, I got much worse cuts, scrapes and bruises from everyday life. So if you seriously think hitting a child on the face is dangerous then you are talking about hitting so hard it is abuse and that is wrong. And I think anyone would agree that abuse is wrong. But we are not talking about abuse here and we are not talking about anything that would actually hurt a child. If it would actually hurt a child then it is abuse and is wrong, we are talking about spanking, which should not inflict any harm, should not show any marks of any kind, and should never be done out of anger or frustration. If someone is hitting hard enough to leave a mark then that is a problem and is not spanking. I suspect you are not actually talking about spanking here but about abuse. Abuse is dangerous. Abuse hurts children not only physically but emotionally. And abuse should be stopped

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Um no you are talking about abuse not spanking. Pro-spankers do not believe in abuse. If you were hit because you were mentally unstable and running into a road or trying to drown yourself in a stream then maybe, and I stress maybe it could be considered spanking, but I highly doubt anyone would spank an adult in that situation, they would probably call the police and have them restrained. should we call the police and have are children restrained when they exhibit this same behavior? NO, because they have not learned yet, and yes there are other ways most times, but not always and some kids do die or seriously hurt others because of their parents lack of forceful discipline, when other methods did not work. I am talking about people who spank and not abuse. There is a big difference. I was abused and I was spanked and there is a big difference. when i was spanked from something i did very wrong, it was very different from being hit for some other persons issues. And abuse does not need to leave a mark but if it does it is abuse and hitting a child is abuse if done without leaving a mark as well if it is done in that spirit of anger, frustration, or their own personal issues, and not as a direct result of behavior. So yes, you can be abused without having a mark, my point was that leaving a mark is definitely abuse. My other point was how it is done and if it is done gently without leaving a mark but done in anger or a derogatory means or whatever it is still abuse. Emotional abuse leaves no marks. Spanking though should not be about abuse or be abusive in any way, and if it is then it is no longer spanking it is abuse. Just like correcting a child verbally when done right is helpful and teaches the child they did wrong, but when done wrong is verbal abuse leading to poor self esteem and sometimes no idea what they even did wrong if they even did anything wrong. Abuse is not right in any form. Can you see the difference? If spanking is done with a gentle swat, an explanation and a hug and kiss and I love you, and is a correct consequence to the behavior, then it is not abusive. In your case, you were abused, not spanked. You knew right from wrong, so there was no reason for you to be spanked, the consequence didn't fit the action, and that is abuse. Part of why this is such a dicey topic is because there people who spank abusively and hide behind it being socially okay. And that is not good. There is a lot of abuse in our society, but there are also a lot of good parents who do spank correctly, without abusing their kids and their kids grow up to love and respect their parents as much as the kids who were not spanked. Coming from a background of abuse it is hard to imagine that, it is hard to see there is anything different from the abuse. But there is. So you are wrong, when you say according to spankers you were just spanked, because you did not do something dangerous to yourself or others. If a child spills thier soup, does that require a spanking? No, even the most pro-spankers will agree on that. but if a child is pushing another into the road, they will likely say it requires a spanking, and honestly if you were pushing another human being into the road in front of traffic, I would hope the least someone would do was give a spanking but the consequences would likely be much more severe. And if you did threaten the life of someone else or your own in any way, then pro-spankers could say it was just a spanking, but again as an adult our consequences are much more severe for that sort of behavior. We would get locked up in jail or a psychiatric hospital, we would lose all our freedom, we wouldn't get a gentle spank on the bottom with a hug and I love you. I guarantee you would wish for that, but it wouldn't be enough of a consequence for an adult. Can you now see the difference? the actions must match the consequences. If you spilled your soup or any other mistake and got hit, that is abuse. But if you are really threatening someone or yourself with danger, then it is protection for you and the others when you are taught that is wrong, whether that teaching method is spanking or something else, which can work for many children but not all. I hope this clarifies the difference for you.

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I don't spank, I use other forms of discipline. But I also believe that it is a persons right to raise their child as they see fit. I was spanked as a child and it sometimes hurt for a second, but that was it, a second, and yes it had shock value. And it was a much better form of punishment than when my other parent screamed at me. I didn't feel bad or like I was a bad person when i was spanked, because it was done right. It was not done from a place of caring and not a place of anger. The words are what hurt more because thy were done from anger. And I was told why I was spanked, and it was not harsh, and I understood that I did something wrong and needed to change my behavior. I didn't understand when i got screamed at, which only made me feel bad and that was likely because it was done from a place of anger. Any discipline done from a place of anger or frustration is hurtful to the child, it doesn't matter if you hit or spank them or yell at the or put them in time out, if it is done from anger the child will be hurt. If it is done right from a place of love and understanding and teaching, then a spank, or a time out, or an explanation, or even a holler, but not out of anger(fear maybe when someone is doing something dangerous). If someone is doing something dangerous, you should do something that gives shock value, either cry out or grab or or something, and yes even spank. And then move onto the explanation or time out or hug or whatever you do next. Um, no I wouldn't do that with an adult who was acting out to hurt themselves or someone else. I would call 911. Unless I felt safe getting involved then i would try to stop them, but I would definitely call the police. And their consequences wouldn't be as simple as a time out after the initial shock value or being hit, or grabbed or hollered at. I t would be jail if they were hurting someone else, as charges would be pressed, and if they were doing something dangerous to themselves, it would be psych unit. Kids are not expected to know this stuff is so bad yet. But their consequences have to be enough that they learn. I knew someone who only spoke to their children about always telling the truth and they had to apologize when they did wrong. Well they basically learned they could do anything as long they apologized. didn't work so well when they became young adults. They were never given that shock value, to stop bad behavior. And they grew up being bad and thinking it was okay. Now I am not saying the needed to be spanked, but they needed something done, other than the time out and apology. For them the time out alone and apology didn't work. For some other child maybe it would have. Everyone is different and so are children, and some need different forms of discipline. I think I could have done okay with another form of discipline other than spanking, but who knows, maybe I was one of those kids, that needed that kind of shock, to understand. And it did not teach me violence. And a criminal can and should be hit if they are trying to hurt someone else, so I have no idea what you are talking about. I would hope someone would hit them, grab them, throw them down. That may be what is wrong with people is that no one wants to get involved, better to let the girl be gang raped than try to stop the criminals from doing it, but they should be stopped by force if necessary. Better to let the child be beaten because we don't want to get involved. Better to let the store be robbed or the old lady be pushed over. Are you serious? Not hit a criminal? I think they should get a good wallop for what they do before the police get there, but most will not get involved. Now it is different if your life would be threatened, but still if someone else's life is being threatened, i would hope someone would help me if my life were being threatened or if I was being beaten or raped. I would hope that someone would hit my attacker. But likely I would be seriously hurt and left for dead while no one did anything and the criminal walked away free. It happens so often. So yes, if I were a proponent of spanking I would say the same goes for adults. Not being a proponent of spanking, I say only do it if absolutely necessary for a child but I still say the adults should get it. they should be hit if they are trying to hurt someone else. They should be stopped by force. And yes a child should as well if no other method is stopping dangerous behavior. Most kids wouldn't need that but there are some I am sure who do. But I disagree that adults should not be hit. they should be hit, and maybe it would save some people if they were. And what can a child do that is so bad you ask, the same as an adult, they can threaten someones life, maybe thier 2 year old sibling when they try to push them out in traffic or their dog when they throw them down the stairs trying to teach them to fly. Well it doesn't matter if their motives are different from an adults, they could still kill someone. And they need to learn not to do it. And again, there are other methods to try first if you so choose, but some people will go right for the spank. And again who am I or you to say they are wrong. Maybe if more children were spanked when they did something so dangerous they wouldn't grow up thinking it was okay and maybe there would be less crime. Or maybe not, I don't know, so I cannot judge others. I can say that I think that adults should get hit though, and I do think if more people got involved there wouldn't be as much crime. If people stopped standing around watching or hiding, and doing nothing, sometimes not even calling for help, then crime would be better if only a small amount. People even do this is in situations where there is no crime, like someone fell and got hurt and everyone thinks someone else will help, and they all keep driving by. And to answer your question, no I wouldn't do that with words to an adult. If they were threatening someone, just saying "gee you should not stab that person it isn't right" is not going to stop them. Or walking up to a rapist saying, "You shouldn't rape anyone anymore it isn't right". Even yelling or screaming at that would likely not stop them. Even threatening them with jail may not stop them. Now tackling them, hitting them with something, hitting the knife away, that would work. So no I wouldn't use with an adult, not at all. Now with a child I would try words first. But not with an adult.

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Yes, exactly, foolish words!!! You got my point!!! And yes that is defense of yourself or someone else. What is different when a child does it? Just because they don't know it is wrong? It is still defense of yourself, someone else or the child. You are still protecting them or the other person by being involved. Now an adult, i will say again, i think should be stopped by force. A child only if necessary. I was raped by a child when i was a child. He didn't stop because he was punished. I wish physical force had been used on him. And yes I wish he had been hit/spanked for it, maybe he would have learned how much he hurt me, by getting a reaction like that from an adult. But no he had to be protected, so I wasn't protected, I suffered! Is that what you are saying, we should protect the abusers even if those abusers are children? I think hurting someone else is sick. I think hurting someone else via other means is just as bad as hitting, and that I agree hitting is abuse and sick when it is done with that attitude. But when it is done in response to something so bad or dangerous, I do think it is okay for a child or an adult to be hit. Like I said i don't believe an adult or child should be hit for spilling something or having a tantrum, or any other dumb event that we might do, but when lives are in danger or being hurt, yes I think it is okay to spank or hit and that it is sick if you don't take the action! that is like saying just let them keep hurting and abusing or killing people or animals because it isn't okay to hit them, to stop it. That is crazy, but like you many people believe in inaction and hence why the actual abuse continues. Lets try to stop the abuse before it gets worse. Take action now! Stop protecting those who are abusing!

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Nope....criminals don't get spanked or hit (unless beaten by the police). We lock them up so they get beat when they get inside the jails or raped. Being told to grab your ankles is always a lot better than a spanking isn't it? Many parents would rather choose spankings before their child's new boyfriend or girlfriends spanks them in their cell.

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What is it with TealRose and and all the "the animal, the criminal, the bank manager" business she uses in each of her examples? I wonder what bizarre and traumatic thing happened to her involving an animal, a bank manager, and a criminal that has caused her to become so obsessed with these three entities. Anyway, if you spanked a dog with the same minimal force that is used to administer a controlled spanking to a child, the dog would think you were playing with it. Yeah, animal abuse is illegal and so is child abuse, but a spanking is not abuse to begin with!

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I'm not sure if anyone picked up on this or not, but TealRose stated, "When my ex husband hit me whether it left a mark or not, it WAS abuse.... BEG TO DIFFER because I was on the END that was being HIT." She has adult emotional/personal issues, therefore is passionate about hitting. Sorry to hear that TealRose, but your experience doesn't account for every individual and every circumstance, so would you give it up already? You're not convincing any parents not to spank that already believes in spankings. There are both positive and negative stories of those that were spanked vs. those that weren't, nothing is a sure thing and no one has all the answers to raising a child that grows up to be a successful, God-fearing, respectful, confident adult. However, I do know that before spanking your child became a national issue, that there were a lot less crimes commited back in the day, hmmmm.

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kids need discipline and ev1 has their own opinions & beliefs...i was spanked and am perfectly fine as an adult, my kids are spanked when they need it as well - thankfully not too often. think ppl get way too dramatic and need to relax. there are no perfect parents and ur way is no better than mine or the next one, w/ the exception of actual abuse which is a completely different topic bc spanking is not abuse.

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TeaRose I detect some bitterness and anger about what others do to discipline their children. I think that everyone is entitled to their opinion and I agree with an earlier post that you have an agenda and there is some expectation that we are going to adhere to that agenda.

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I believe it is a sad world if parents/caregiver have no other means of guiding children towards what is right or wrong. We often do it because we were brought up this way and it hasn't necessarily damaged us, but if we allowed ourselves to become more creative and follow our hearts rather than our hands, we would achieve wonderful results.

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Yes, of course, inflicting pain on a child teaches such a great lesson,..like using violence to punish someone instead of intellect, reasoning, etc. There are ways to teach a child a lesson without hitting...deprive them of something they hate being without, tv, a toy, computer time, an activity, etc. STICK to your threats. SPEAK in their currency, not with aggresion. If you don't think you are setting a horrible example of ways to deal with disappointment and loss of patience, I feel sorry for you and your kids. In a wildly violent society and world, the LAST thing we need are kids who see nothing wrong with lashing out at people who let them down. Yes, it takes a lot of work and patience as a parent to raise polite, respecful, disciplined kids, (my folks raised 5) but resorting to hitting (which IS what spanking is) a child a fraction of your size is weak, self-servng, impatient parenting.

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Thank you.. exactly right.. Hitting is always wrong..

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I so agree! And, what message are you sending to your child. You say hitting is wrong and it is no way to solve your problems, yet, you are going to solve your problem with your child by hitting them? Yes, I was spanked as a child. I was told it was out of love and it hurt my parents more than it hurt me... Not true. I became an introverted, shy child, with not much in the way of self- esteem or confidence. I never talked to my parents about anything important and don't want that kind of relationship with my child. Am I an ok adult? Do I have a good relationship with my parents? Yes... but am not completely confident in them, and still don't talk with them about how I feel. I value my daughter's feelings, and she knows it... She has great consequences for not listening, without spanking, and she gets it.

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Hmmm, I'm very confused as people reading my post seem to interpret that I approve of hitting a child for discipline. Where does it say that exactly?....

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I agree with you both!

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Jesus TealRose, learn to spell "defenseless." At first I thought it was a typo but now it's become obvious that you really just don't know the correct spelling. I'm surprised because from the way you were quoting the definition of discipline every five seconds I thought that you carried a dictionary around in your purse or something. Hopefully you don't teach your children to spell like that.

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Spanking with love is an oxymoron!! Think about it-spanking is a knee jerk reaction that always arises out of anger or fear. How do you teach a child to be peaceful and compassionate by hitting?

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At the point of a spanking a parent is not giving a lesson on being peaceful and gentle.. I am a very non violent person and I was spanked as a child... there are lots of other opportunities to teach a child how to be peaceful and gentle...BTW I hope all the people who talk about spanking teaching kids violence are watching what the kids see on tv, in movies and in the video games they play... if that's not teaching violence I don't know what is!

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the idea of "spanking with love" disturbs me very much indeed

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When I see posts stating that hitting your child is an act of love I cringe and my stomach flips. I don't care for anyone who hurts me.

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Me, too. Makes me want to throw up.

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Is it wrong that I chuckled? Maybe I should hit TealRose & Jennifer to show you how much I love their posts...

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I really like you, two!!!!! :-)

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Exactly! "I love you so I want to inflict pain on you so that I feel that I'm in control of you." Scary and sad. Hitting hurts. Spanking is a cute word for hitting your child and hurting them on purpose to teach them to follow rules. It's sadistic and should be illegal.

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Absolutely agree Leslie!

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Aww, what a little love fest! Why don't you all start a club dedicated to how much you hate your parents for giving you a spank now and then? Your meetings would consist of you all crying about how emotionally damaged you are now, and all the sick pleasure you get from having the last laugh, shutting your parents out of your life just like you vowed to when you were five because you didn't get your way all the time. You could do charity work in the community with troubled inner city kids in DC and Baltimore, and use your parenting methods turn them into compassionate and respectful children! I'm sure TealRose's previously mentioned method of continually repeating yourself over and over to a child that doesn't listen the first ten times will totally work eventually (becuase, as you said TealRose, "It's the only way they have to learn!"). I'm sure that reasoning with them as though they were adults will also totally work. Yay for you guys!

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Yes. Full stop. You never ever hit anyone, ever. And if you think that it's okay to do so then you need someone with some very good decent values to explain to you exactly why it isn't, or a very much bigger than you person to slap you hard so that you appreciate exactly what sort of trauma being hit by someone causes.Violence breed violence and hitting out is violence. You can't justify your loss of control, which is what it is!, as being a justifiable means of addressing the behaviour of your own children. If you slap them (I only spanked them when they deserved it, my parents did it to me and it never harmed me blah blah blah) don't be surprised one day if they hit you with something much harder and more life threatening, because that is exactly what you will have taught them to do as 'good' parents.

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Georgina, I detect a bit of anger and bitterness.

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I couldnt agree with you less. but everyone is entitled to thier opinion. and yes jeanne..that was rude.

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I agree with Jeanne.

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I'm going to guess you're a very young and first time mother if a mother at all. Spanking is quite different from slapping. Spanking is a swat on a bottom which more often than not is well padded. Spanking is meant to shock and alarm NOT harm. Gets their attention, makes a point and if used RARELY is quite an effective tool. My children are all grown and never ever even tried to hit me so I guess I did ok. And my values are very firm, grounded and rooted in respect. I know quite well the difference between discipline and abuse, thank you.

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It is rude. You shouldn't have been so candid. I shouldn't have laughed.

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Rachel shouldn't have laughed either.

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Jeanne, it's you're not your

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I agree with you Georgina!!! And Patti....I am NOT a very young Mom or a first time Mom, I am a Mom to 5....been a Mom for 25 years!! There is NO difference in spaking and slapping or any kind of corporal punishment........!! ANY parent who uses corporal punishment as their tool of discipline is teaching the child/dren that violence is the proper conflict resolution.......creating bullies!! Violence DOES beget violence!!!!!!!!! It is unwise and foolish of a parent to believe that corporal punishment is a good tool of discipline!!

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I agree with you Patti I was spanked when I needed it my children also and when it is done correctly there is no trauma just children that grow to adult hood with a respect for authority.

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I agree Angie. I was rarely spanked as a child, but I was abused in many different ways. I have turned out great considering! Do I spank my kids? As a last resort, when I have given them time-out or redirected them over & over I swat a behind. Slapping, punching, hitting, etc. is not the same. I prefer to tap a hand, but my hand will tap a bottom and that is what we call it, "Do you want your bottom tapped?" Crazy thing is my exhusband was never spanked & he is one of the worst people I have ever met. He has not seen or spoken to his son in almost 2 years. He is an Iraq "war hero" who spends his time between collecting a check from the gov't & hitting a beer bottle along with drug use. And before you say his combat experience is the cause, I discovered this side to him after marriage, years before deployment. I spent 4 years getting hit by someone who was taught NEVER to hit. His mother & father are both affluent doctors, so explain this to me? What's wrong with him, he never feared his parents, they were too NICE and he walked all over them. His poor mother now gets to watch her mistakes become part of her children. She has 3, 1 turned out great, one is a party girl & then there's him. Did anyone ever consider the fact that every child is different & if you give kids an inch they take a mile? My children are great & most people ask me how I've done it, with a BOTTOM TAPPING, Time-outs, parental involvement & support, & a loving home. Spanking my child doesn't mean I don't love them it means I love them more than being well-liked or popular, I want them to be a fuctioning part of society one day. I am finishing my degree now and trust me, these kids I go to school with are some of the laziest & most disrespectful kids I've met.

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I agree Georgina. I am a long time experienced mother and work with the kids of others as well and would never hit a child. To those who disagree with you, I disagree with them. Now I need to come to your houses and slap you. Are you okay with that? I have never hit a child, never will, and have some fantastic kids to show for it.

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Thank you, Patti! You don't spank when you are angry, it just doesn't work that way. And you NEVER spank to hurt, warn, yes but not to do harm. As a Christian mom I believe in using the Bible as my guide and I have yet to read anything that says I should not spank when my children do something so bad that it is needed.

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Patti, why do you assume that she is young and patronise her because she has found more effective ways of disciplining than resorting to common violence? sounds very mature to me. and her kids will be smarter http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6188692/Smacking-makes-children-naughtier-research.html

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I agree Patti, slapping your child around, and giving them a swat on the bum as a means of a last resort when the child is being defiant are 2 totally different things. Maybe sometimes it's hard when you've been hit as a child, you vow to never do it to your own. I know I got hit, in the more dysfunctional way, so choose to believe in emotional clarity, and balance. It can be challanging, but I refuse to let cycles repeat. And because of growing up with dysfunction, I choose to respond postively when I'm not sure HOW to react in certain situations. As heated as they can get, I still choose to leave the room or situation first and think about it for a minute. Of course, we all know all children are different and don't all respond to the same disiplines. So as parents WE need to work on how we react to our children, and to know our children well enough to know what they will respond to. It's balance. It's being emotionally, and physically responsible parents! And if this is how we choose to be as parents then we need to keep ourselves in check. And always give your child the respect, love, and attention they deserve. But if you're losing your mind with your children, and hitting them when you're emotionally charged to disipline them, then you need to reevaluate and get some help. No one really wants to let things get out of hand, and it's ok to ask for help. So, it is hard to judge how far we take it to decide that someone is abusing their child. So really we have to evaluate ourselves, and measure our own emotional responsibility. It's hard but there is absolutely no excuse not to do it for the sake of our children.

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I agree with Patti! You all are talking about violence and slapping. Like I said earlier, I have a friend who didn't want to ruin her little guys self esteem, even though he was hitting and slapping at her and now he is all grown up and has been arrested a couple of times for beating up his girlfriends. Violence, slapping, punching, hitting!!! Who's self esteem was damaged? Was it the girlfriends fault? Did they damage his little self esteem? He might have needed a swat on the bum or just consistently taught not to hit at mommy until he got the message.

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Just a question to the non-spanking moms. What is your punishment when you don't spank but instead you use much prayer, taking away EVERYTHING which includes friends, activities, sports, T.V., video games etc. and your child is hitting/smacking/kicking you and cursing you out? I just want to see what some of your answers are.

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This is not a sensical argument to the issue at hand. Losing control and slapping someone hard, which is the situation that you have described, is not at all what occurs when a spanking is administered to a child. Regardless of what side of the argument you are on, you have to realize that a spanking is a premeditated event that the child is alerted of ahead of time in which the force is quite minimal and controlled for consistency, NOT some kind of impulse decision made by an enraged mother who has lost control of herself. You haven't successfully argued anything here, all you've done is exaggerated the issue into something it's not and put words in people's mouths.

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I already made some comments, but, forgot to add that 2 of my brothers grew up to be ministers, one was in the AIR FORCE for 20 years, the other, like me, was more common, but, we all were CHRISTIANS!! WITH GOOD MORAL UPBRINGING!!! my youngest brother died almost a year ago. I am now 73 years old, and started college last week, to be a medical assistant.

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GOOD FOR YOU!! :) and im sorry for your loss. Hes watching down on you with pride.

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I find this a hugely fascinating topic, we have an anti-smacking law in our country which was aimed at reducing the family violence against children, unfortunately it hasnt impacted those that are doing the actual serious physical damage to their kids. I am hugely interested to know how after how many several hundreds of years of probably smacking, belting and even beating other beings that it is all of a SUDDEN this generation that says it is not okay to smack. When I grew up in the 70's-80's schools had corporal punishment, probably every child in the school had a parent that has smacked them, if not given the wooden spoon or the jug cord? NOw bullying is out of control in schools and they want to make a task force to figure out how to deal with it-sorry but in this day and age of battling economies-it'll be a whole lot cheaper and effecient to start up corporal punishement again-I sure can bet you that the smart alec kids that are just pushing there luck, would pull their heads in real quick to avoid a cane from the principal. SO to summarise, I am hugely intrigued to learn how we got from having the cane at school from the principal or dean and even our parents-the cane across the knuckles in etc IN CLASS if you werent even sitting properly-to our own parents not even being allowed to smack us. It will be very interesting to see where society will be at on this issue in another 10 years.

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No. It can't, unless later in life they go to some boo-hoo type therapist that traces ALL of their problems in their life back to being spanked...

That being said, I respect the rights of those parents who choose passive discipline over physical discipline, and I never say "I told you so" when their kids end up in Juvie, or in prison because they have no respect for authority, so I would GREATLY APPRECIATE the same respect when I deal with my kids, whether my method is physical or passive.

To not grant me that respect is to insult my parenting. I wouldn't insult yours (intentionally, at least) and you should give me the same treatment.

If I choose to spank my kids for something that I've talked about till I'm blue in the face, then by God, I'm going to do it! If I choose NOT to do so, again that's my own personal parenting choice. Unless you're living in my house and taking over my parenting duties, you have no right to criticize me. Nor do I have the right to criticize you!

Why can't adults be adults and quit picking on each other? I've seen more women brutally slammed on this forum for offering an opinion (that was asked for, mind you), and when that opinion is posted, if it's not the PC right way to do it, then you're a horrible parent!

What a way to teach our kids how to act, eh?

Oh, and by the way??? I spanked. My kids graduate this year and in two more years. Good grades, good manners, considerate, thoughtful young men who DO NOT use physical violence as their first method, so for EVERYONE who is going to bash this because I spank, take their current behavior into account...

And, for those who use passive discipline methods, if your kids are starting to be horribly disrespectful, etc, You chose your discipline method. Hows that consistent gentle redirection really working?\

The bottom line is, ladies, that each person parents differently, and each child reacts differently. Passive discipline works for some, but not all. Spanking works for some, but not all. And, in both cases, the kids can grow up to be wonderful, or awful. A lot more factors are involved than just whether or not you spanked your kids...

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I think your first sentence describes exactly what has happened with some of the mothers who have commented here about how they were "preyed upon" or "victimized by" their parents. It breaks my heart to read how they completely disconnected from their poor parents over nothing, and let them pass away without realizing the error of their ways, almost as though they were proud of how long they could hold a grudge over something so insignificant. Talk about a scapegoat.

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That's what I'm thinking; like: Seriously? All that burning anger over a few swats on the behind? Did your parents not hold you, not cuddle you, not feed you, not clothe you, not raise you? First World problems to the MAX. Only 100 years ago, children were nothing more than farm hands, and it was totally up to the parents if the child was even worth raising to adulthood. The Irish used to sell disobedient children into lifelong slavery. They'd be pretty shocked at how some people just can't move beyond a swat-swat they endured to their bum-bum at age 3 or 4.

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my great grandmother used to say"sometimes it takes a little hurt to prevent a bigger one'". too many kids are allowed to be disrespectful these days-they are the selfish brats , bullies-I've seen it over and over working around kids. they actually come right out and say "'my parents don't do anything-just talk about it'-no big deal' yep-they're the ones always in trouble parents don't even hear about.

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I soo agree with you.in some countries where its illegal to spank kids,the parents live in fear,cause the kids have all the power.oh I cant play with the x-box,im calling cps cause you hit me..my friend went to Denmark with her mother inlaw and 4 year old.whom which was having bad behavioral issues ,and he threw a fit in public and clawed her face,so finally fed up she spanked him ,and ppl freaked out,cause its against the law there..I was a rotten child and was spanked and im not damaged by it....I soo agree with you that unspanked kids are unruly brats....

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Good parents killed by bad kids: Daniel Bartlam, Kip Kinkel (sister says their parents never spanked them), Jacob Cobb (mom pestered him to play Yahtzee! on Christmas!), Derek & Alex King, Ashleigh & Holly Robinson, Heather Wendorf & Roderick Ferrel, Adrian Navarro-Canales, Brian Blackwell, Bryan & David Freeman, David Bain, Qi Ping, Parents killed for disapproval of teen daughter's boyfriend: Penny Caffy, Marc & Debra Richardson, in Canada, Dixie Lee Hollier, Joanne Witt, Parents killed over Playstation/video games: Rashida Anderson, "I really miss my mom. ... She was the only person who cared for me." - Kendall Anderson (Rashida's killer), Gretchen Crooks, (13 yr old Noah Crooks had video game taken from him due to bad grades), 14 yr old Yaroslav Melnichenko bludgeoned father in his sleep over video games. "Relatives said that the parents had spoiled him, bringing him up with little discipline" Unnamed Saudi 4 year old kills father for refusing to buy him Playstation, Mothers killed over money: Yolanda Holmes, Eva Marie Hobbs, Therese Turpin, Mothers killed over chores: Deborah McVay, (Deborah had threatened to press charges against a school bus driver who had physically put her son in his seat on the bus). Penny Cunningham, (argument over chores)

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I believe not spanking a child leads to behavioral issues. Children learn by discipline and spankings is one form of discipline. It may not be the best method to some people, but I stand by it 150%. Sometimes my children need a whooping. Sometime they need a timeout. Sometime they just need a good talking to.

I got my butt spanked all the time because I was an unruly child. Now I am a responsible adult. As I reflect back sometimes on my upbringing, I am glad my mom whooped my butt.

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Why is it not acceptable to spank the adults at work when I need to teach them something? Why is it that children 'require' spanking for you to be able to teach them? Safety is often the time when it is indicated that children need spanking to learn. Do children remember the lesson from being hit? Or simply that there parent hit them? I don't spank - my first reaction if my child is in danger is to remove them from danger - not hit them.

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The difference with adults and children is that 'hopefully' by the time a person has reached adulthood they should know the difference between what is right and what is wrong. I have to agree with the mums who say that spanking, implemented the right way, has a place in disciplining some behaviors in our children. Some children will go through childhood never having been spanked while a sibling may have. Alot depends on the type of personality and/or attitude a child has. After all no two people are alike. My four older children are better mannered then my two younger ones. On occasion I spanked the older ones. Due to circumstances I didn't have the opportunate to discipline my two younger ones and as a result they don't have the manners like that of their older siblings. So in my own family I can see the results of what spanking and not spanking can produce in a child's behaviour.

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Tealrose, After reading all your comments I sence that you have alot of anger inside still. That is not healthy. You also seem to be very confused about the difference between the abusive relationship you had with an ADULT as an ADULT as opposed to disciplining a child with a swat to their bottom. They are NOT one and the same thing. Stop trying to impose your opinions on others. We all have our own and are entitled to them as are you to yours. You keep going on about criminals and dogs. What has that got to do with the topic "To Spanking or Not to Spank"?

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Why are we getting so many inane arguments? Here we go again: No I do not spank other adults. Their moms should have taken care of that for me, but I can always tell when their moms did not. I don't wipe the bottoms of other adults. I don't bathe other adults. I don't breastfeed other adults. I don't diaper other adults. And I don't spank other adults.

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Spanking is wrong.. I went through it and would not want my children to go through it. It is never right to hit someone..especially a child. That is not the right way to discipline. That is abuse.. If it is not ok for someone to hit you, it is not ok to hit a child. It would be confusing if a chid hit another child and they were told not to do that, but then they were hit back from their own parent.. Just wrong, no acceptions. If they are screaming and having a tantrum, try not to pay attention to it. If you keep calm and try to ignore them, they may stop after a while but hitting is wrong. I have been there and it took a while with my daghter but it worked.

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If spanking should be left out of parenting because it causes "behavioral issues" then children should also not be put in public school, which in my experience, causes WAY more behavioral issues than spanking could ever possibly cause. (and I do mean disciplining, not abusing)

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I can't believe how many people are in favor of spanking. I was hit as a child. I vowed to never do it to my own. It has taken a lot of creativity and patience to not hit. There have been times I have been publicly embarassed by my kids' behavior. There have been situations where I wished I had a threat that worked. I have a four year old who has never been spanked and a 13 month old. My four year old was potty trained at two within a week. Never had behavior issues at school, never has shown physical aggression unprovoked. I stuck to her side so she didn't touch the stove or run in the road. I explained that it could hurt or kill her. One day she got it. No spankings to enforce just constant supervision. My 13 month old is a menace. I could never hit her. Our responsibility as parents is to keep our kids safe. if you could get arrested for doing it to a stranger, why would you feel this is ok to do to your child? Growing up in the 80s, it was a regular occurrence to see kids get spanked in public. Most of my friends were hit w/belts or wooden spoons at home. I was too. My parents regret this. I still will never completely understand this dysfunctional thought process. Occasionally I see a kid get spanked at the park or store and I can't help but recognize that each spanker seems to be low rent trash. I wonder what happens at home if the kid gets hit in public. The parent thinks they are fixing a behavior problem when in reality they are humiliating their child(=low self esteem), instilling fear instead of respect, and laying the foundation for long term resentment. Don't ever hurt your kids. I have come close at times but never crossed the line. Taking away toys, tv, or even letting the tantrum go ignored completely in public e warrants the best results. Be consistent with no and follow through on your promises. Be honest when appropriate; but don't be afraid to tell a 3 year old that Chuck E Cheese is closed to avoid an argument. I can honestly say that I'm the best mother I know for following these rules. Don't forget to spend time with them. In ten years when the house is perfect and you check off everything on your list every day you will long for the days they were little. Cherish it and don't ruin it with a daily power struggle.

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I was spanked by my mother and grandmother and I have nothing but utmost respect for them both... not fear or resentment but respect...Sounds like you were abused as a child, which leaves you feeling like you should not spank your kids, but spanking is NOT abuse. So spanking is terrible but lying to your kid is OK? Are you suggesting that class and spanking are related? It seems to me that tantrums and public embarrassment are more prolonged power struggles. BTW I am not sure what potty training has to do with spanking.

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You have a 4 year old and a baby if that 4 year old is having tantrums in public and you are doing nothing ,You will have 2 doing it with in the year. Hate to be in the same store as you.We have 8 children we can take them anyplace and they know to be good, no tantrums or they will get a spanking.the last 2 are 4 year old twins no tantrums in public.All are kids are very happy and loving. The older ones all excel in school and sports. And they all have been spanked when needed.

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And, there are children who don't throw tantrums in public because they don't throw tantrums at home. They do in public what they learn at home. If tantrums do not lead to them getting their way, eventually they quit. This can be done effectively WITHOUT SPANKING if done from the first tantrum they ever throw.

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Good parents killed by bad kids: Daniel Bartlam, Kip Kinkel (sister says their parents never spanked them), Jacob Cobb (mom pestered him to play Yahtzee! on Christmas!), Derek & Alex King, Ashleigh & Holly Robinson, Heather Wendorf & Roderick Ferrel, Adrian Navarro-Canales, Brian Blackwell, Bryan & David Freeman, David Bain, Qi Ping, Parents killed for disapproval of teen daughter's boyfriend: Penny Caffy, Marc & Debra Richardson, in Canada, Dixie Lee Hollier, Joanne Witt, Parents killed over Playstation/video games: Rashida Anderson, "I really miss my mom. ... She was the only person who cared for me." - Kendall Anderson (Rashida's killer), Gretchen Crooks, (13 yr old Noah Crooks had video game taken from him due to bad grades), 14 yr old Yaroslav Melnichenko bludgeoned father in his sleep over video games. "Relatives said that the parents had spoiled him, bringing him up with little discipline" Unnamed Saudi 4 year old kills father for refusing to buy him Playstation, Mothers killed over money: Yolanda Holmes, Eva Marie Hobbs, Therese Turpin, Mothers killed over chores: Deborah McVay, (Deborah had threatened to press charges against a school bus driver who had physically put her son in his seat on the bus). Penny Cunningham, (argument over chores)

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That depends upon who, how, and why spanking is employed. Children need clear boundaries to their behavior with clear and patient instruction in order to navigate life according to "the rules of the game", so to speak, and to help avoid angry frustration when things don't go their way. Both attitudes and behavior, along with the maturity level of expectations, need to be a part of a parent's decision on when to apply spanking. To eliminate this well-established and effictive deterrent to rebellious or obnoxious behavior because some use it as a bullying tactic would be what my mom called, "cutting off your nose to spite your face!" Children learn to respect loving authority exercised to prevent them from straying into dangerous and anti-social behaviors that would gain them only injury or disapproval by others. On the other hand, failure to train them can result in horrendous results. My recommendation: find some experienced parents whose children are well-mannered and considerate of others and ask them how they did it. I believe you will find appropriate spanking has often been a part of the tool kit. I found some very helpful perspective on this issue at NoGreaterJoy.org from some seasoned and joyous parents with a rich well of wisdom. Faddish child-rearing philosophies swing like pendulums from one generation to another. These guys did a great job and have a joyous, well-adjusted family. I wish I had had such people mentoring me as a young mom.

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Hahahaha, here we go again with the dog and the criminal... Oh TealRose, you have some serious issues

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Good parents killed by bad kids: Daniel Bartlam, Kip Kinkel (sister says their parents never spanked them), Jacob Cobb (mom pestered him to play Yahtzee! on Christmas!), Derek & Alex King, Ashleigh & Holly Robinson, Heather Wendorf & Roderick Ferrel, Adrian Navarro-Canales, Brian Blackwell, Bryan & David Freeman, David Bain, Qi Ping, Parents killed for disapproval of teen daughter's boyfriend: Penny Caffy, Marc & Debra Richardson, in Canada, Dixie Lee Hollier, Joanne Witt, Parents killed over Playstation/video games: Rashida Anderson, "I really miss my mom. ... She was the only person who cared for me." - Kendall Anderson (Rashida's killer), Gretchen Crooks, (13 yr old Noah Crooks had video game taken from him due to bad grades), 14 yr old Yaroslav Melnichenko bludgeoned father in his sleep over video games. "Relatives said that the parents had spoiled him, bringing him up with little discipline" Unnamed Saudi 4 year old kills father for refusing to buy him Playstation, Mothers killed over money: Yolanda Holmes, Eva Marie Hobbs, Therese Turpin, Mothers killed over chores: Deborah McVay, (Deborah had threatened to press charges against a school bus driver who had physically put her son in his seat on the bus). Penny Cunningham, (argument over chores)

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We follow a simple rule of thumb in our home.
If the child is 1) doing something that could hurt themselves 2) doing something that could hurt someone else 3) an act of direct defiance....then a spanking is valid.

But, this rule doesn't go into place unles we have addressed the behavior first. When they were young (2yrs - 8 yrs) time-out came first. Once they became older, losing a priviledge came first (TV for 2 days, spending the night out that weekedn...something that mattered to them) But, my children were always given the choice to choose changing their behavior before any punishment.
and we were CONSISTENT and on the same page. There was no counting to 3 or idle threats of "if you do that again..."

Theer are children I don't allow my kids to have over because they are undisciplined in their homes. They are both rude when they speak and have no respect for our home or our things. Since I've watched them yell at their parents and refuse to participate in basic group activities I completely understand why it was said "spare the rod and spoil the child."

My son was expelled from K4...yep...K4. He was angry with the misstreatment of a childcare worker when he was 3 yrs old and wetting the mat at naptime. My happy, funny little guy became mad at the world. Thanks to an understanding employer who let me work from home and the use of an AMAZING program called KidsCoins, my son is now in 5th grade. He's a favorite with his classmates and teachers alike because he's very helpful with the kids struggling even though he's in advanced classes.

Although I can't remember the last spanking he was given, I'm sure he does. And, I know he'll tell you he's never felt unloved or bullied. Because that's exactly what he told a teacher when a discussion came up in class about spankings.

My daughter hadn't had a spanking in 2 years, until 2 weeks ago. She had been warned repeatedly about a new behavior that was extremely disrespectful. She had been grounded twice from spending the night out for it. The day she was un-grounded and let it fly out her mouth agin...we picked her up early from her outing and dealt with it by spanking. Haven't heard the sass a single time since.

If someone is emotionally damaging theior child in the manner they are spanking them, I'
ll guarantee you they are damaging their child in many ways. Don't spank in anger. Don't spank in frustration. And, don't spank for frivolous reasons.

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NO of course we don't spank our husbands, the bank manager or the lady at the check out because they are GROWN already, they are not children who are being raised to be adults! There is a big difference you know!

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You are SO right!! Hitting is terrible! Shows very bad manners! It's a good thing that spanking & hitting aren't the same thing OR there would be thousands or maybe millions of people put in jail!! Maybe that's why they aren't in jail? Cause they are 2 totally different actions! It's a good thing too because if they were considered to be the same then we would have a world even worse than now! Thank you mom for loving me enough not to just let me act however I wanted to, Being fearful of getting to butt spanked keep me straight!!

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My children are 12 and 10 now. My husband and I have strangers come up to us and compliment their wonderful manners. And, their friends parents tell us they can call and ask to come play anytime because they're always great to have around. My children are well-behaved and respectful because they have been taught. They've been taught what is not acceptable behavior. And some of that teaching has been done by spanking when they're defiant. If you insist on looping striking a child and spanking together, this conversation is futile. I'm sorry to read so many posts that were clearly not spanking but a power trip. Would I spank my husband? Since he doesn't run into the street in front of an oncoming car while I yell "stop"...or throw his dinner plate across the room because there's macaroni instead of spaghetti on it....or pinch me because I'm talking to the neighbor...No, no I wouldn't. But, I wouldn't be his wife if he did those things. And, I spanked my son for them.

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Sooo, let me get this straight. If your child is doing something dangerous that could hurt them, you hurt them first to keep them from hurting themselves. Oh, now I get it! Not.

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Ok teal rose we get what your saying you have said the same thing 50 times now and repeating yourself is not going to change weather someone spanks or not keep in mind we are not children and don't change our minds because we hear the same thing over and over and as far as criminals getting hit have you been to jail they do get hit and much worse as far as hitting other adults getting our butts spanked is how we learned to respect people and how they live and FYI hitting happens even with adults if you do something that calls for it you deserve it

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HAHAHAHA Oh man, this just gets better and better... In every comment from TealRose that I read, sure enough, there is "the animal, the bank manager, the criminal" or some combination, but now she's thrown a fourth one into the mix... the lady at checkout! Hahaha, oh my gosh, I am just cracking up at my computer. Someone could make a great game out of this, guessing which she'll use next!

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HAHAHAHA and AGAIN with the dictionary, TealRose, how do you keep quoting definitions out of your precious dictionary yet you don't know how to spell "DEFENSELESS" with an S! Hahahahaha

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Mother of a very polite, kind and confident 9-year-old here who we've never spanked. Spanking IS hitting. It's like all you pro-spankers have your fingers in your ears going LALALALALA. Of course you're not going to change your mind, but that doesn't make your behavior any better. "Spanking with love" is the sickest most perverse concept imagineable. My parents used to tell me they spanked me out of love, and you know what? It made me love them less and not respect them AT ALL. To this day, I love them with all my heart but I have no desire to emulate them and I do not look up to them, despite the fact that they are successful, intelligent, well-respected members of the community.

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God TealRose, you are nuts. No, I don't spank my husband and I don't wipe his butt either, after he goes weewee. Satisfied? I don't spank the manager of a bank nor change his diaper. Nor feed him.

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spare the rod and spoil the child!!!!

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That is so mis quoted from what the Bible says.

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It is also a myth. Not proven.

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i agree with you. we have so many unruly kids and teens now a days. Either they dont know whats right from wrong, OR they dont care because they have never had concequences for their actions. A spanking offers a major concequence. Therefore teaching the child that if you do something wrong you have to "man up" and accept the punishment.

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Perhaps the unruly kids and teens should have been taught respect and love and how to be accountable from their parents. Funny but Ive never heard a successful hardworking adult say " Thanks to my parents spanking me, Im a success! Sure taught me!" From my experience kids and teens with these issues, generally have lazy parents who are barely involved in there kids lives. And when they are its to make excuses for them. Its sad really.

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"He who spareth the rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him correcteth him betimes" (Proverbs 13:24) The rod was a comparison to a shepherd's hook... sheep were tapped with it to keep them on track, I do believe in swats when a child is young on a padded behind it gets their attention when other things won't but once the child is old enough that a swat won't do or they can understand an explanation of why what they have done is wrong then you can move to other methods... But each child is different while one little boy will nod and never do it again by just being told it's wrong another may look at you and purposely do it again... that is when reinforcement or a swat may be needed to show you mean it and end it, because the stubborn child is also the one who uses 'time out' to plot his next attack!

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spoil the child? what? im confused!

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This is from a post on this thread by another member. I thought her explaination of "spare the rod" was excellent! I hope I'm not breaking any rules by quoting her here! Deborah Morris - commented on Jul 31, 2011 "I would like to point out, that the "spare the rod spoil the child" statement that's been floating around forever has been largely misinterpreted. This came from the bible, and in those days, the rod was another word for a staff. As in a shepherds staff to guide the sheep. I.E., guide your children in the right way to go..." I

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Deborah Joness... if your going to get all religious, and talk bible quotes.... Nuns in school believe in corporal punishment... your way off track in this forum....& they did because it WORKED! once the child abuse act was made, all kinds of kids started ending up in juvenile detention.... thats not just a coincidence! everyone here has their own opinion & thats all it is! you have no right criticizing anyone who does spank! For them its the OPTION that works! if your against spanking, then DONT DO IT! if you do make sure its on the butt...spank and NOT beat - big difference!

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As an atheist, of course I don't care if it's Biblical or not. The reason it became a popular saying is because: it works!

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I was spanked as a child and although as a child I thought some of my parents reasons were stupid, Today I thank them for those same stupid spankings. I was not abused. I believe that today's BRATS are created by parents who just pass the buck onto the shoulders of teachers. They are there to give knowledge not Manners or discipline. Spanking a child does not harm them. It makes them know that there are consequences to their wrong behavior or actions. my children ( All 6 of them) are well balanced and well mannered. I do not tolerate bad behavior from them or even their friends. I am not an old fogey parent. I am almost 50, but still roll around on the grass with my kids, play pranks, listen to their music but when I spank them it comes with a lesson, a soft word and a hug afterwards. There is a difference between Spanking, Abuse and beating a child.

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My thoughts.... After reading ALL of these comments and opinions, I'd like to share a story. I have been in so many different situations in my life that have afforded me the opportunity to SEE some things for myself. I'm going to tell you what I have SEEN not what I read or was told by someone who probably doesn't even have kids. I knew a guy. He was 21 years old, repeat criminal. Woman abuser, thief, druggie. Constantly in jail. EVERY single time he went to jail, his granny RAN to get him out. what is that teaching him? Absolutely nothing. LOVE your children by teaching them right from wrong not by spoiling them. He is now serving 65 years for aggravated sexual assault. He thought his granny could get him out of it. When she couldn't and he heard his sentence, he cursed her out right there in the court room. I agree, there are MANY ways to discipline a child. Sometimes, spanking is what gets through, depending on the child. I use it as a last resort for all 3 of my children. People confuse spanking with physical abuse. My mother included. Now my 40 year old sister (and her 7 kids she began having at 16) is constantly having to move back in with her. My 20 year old brother takes her car at night while she's asleep. I never was spanked either but I was strong minded enough to not stress her like my siblings. So, in all honesty, NOT spanking can cause future behavioral issues.

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Good parents killed by bad kids: Daniel Bartlam, Kip Kinkel (sister says their parents never spanked them), Jacob Cobb (mom pestered him to play Yahtzee! on Christmas!), Derek & Alex King, Ashleigh & Holly Robinson, Heather Wendorf & Roderick Ferrel, Adrian Navarro-Canales, Brian Blackwell, Bryan & David Freeman, David Bain, Qi Ping, Parents killed for disapproval of teen daughter's boyfriend: Penny Caffy, Marc & Debra Richardson, in Canada, Dixie Lee Hollier, Joanne Witt, Parents killed over Playstation/video games: Rashida Anderson, "I really miss my mom. ... She was the only person who cared for me." - Kendall Anderson (Rashida's killer), Gretchen Crooks, (13 yr old Noah Crooks had video game taken from him due to bad grades), 14 yr old Yaroslav Melnichenko bludgeoned father in his sleep over video games. "Relatives said that the parents had spoiled him, bringing him up with little discipline" Unnamed Saudi 4 year old kills father for refusing to buy him Playstation, Mothers killed over money: Yolanda Holmes, Eva Marie Hobbs, Therese Turpin, Mothers killed over chores: Deborah McVay, (Deborah had threatened to press charges against a school bus driver who had physically put her son in his seat on the bus). Penny Cunningham, (argument over chores)

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