How do I handle this?

[deleted account] ( 21 moms have responded )

I am really sick of my 6 year old that has adhd, odd, bipolar, low level autism and ocd threatening to hurt me.................................I have told his counselor and dr.'s about this but it seems like they are not doing much to help with this issue. The only other thing I can think of to do is to call the cops every time he threatens me. Its really hard to do. Does anyone have any other solutions????????????????

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Miriam - posted on 07/23/2013

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I used to live there I live in IN now laws are better! Its against the law to lock the in there room but not to hold the door shut haha. Sorry I found that funny. A lady I know said I should tie my kids hands together so they are all in a big circle when they are all fighting. She was joking but all I could do was laugh cause I could just imagine the big knot of kids in a ball (cause thats how they would end up)

Give him an aggression outlet like put a mattress up on the wall and let him hit the hell out of it.

I also run my home like a drill Sargent at times :p "If you guys have that much energy to fight all right run laps, do pushups and so one and I make them do it till they cant.

If I had a kid like yours if he shoves me I would shove back if he breaks something of mine is stuff is in the trash! (mine will then me under lock and key) You bite me I bite back, you throw at me I throw back (just dont actually throw at him) Not saying beat em up by no means but if he is afraid you will do what he does to you maybe he would think twice.

You are in a situation you need to think outside of the parenting box along the Gray Line lets say

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♫ Shawnn ♪♫♫ - posted on 07/30/2013

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So, if I may ask, what was wrong with him riding his scooter while the others were on bikes?

I realize that it was one specific situation, but...A lot of times you have to pick your battles with kids. The more restrictive you are, the more they fight back.

Now, if you're saying that your son has been diagnosed with bipolar disorder, autism and ocd, I'm wondering what you've done to try to handle the problems? Seems like you don't want to medicate, and I don't blame you, but you have to understand that children with these particular issues (bipolar/autism/ocd) process information differently, process situations differently, and if you don't/can't understand how or why they do that, it can make your caregiving and raising of the kids difficult.

Have you attended classes in order to help yourself learn how to handle this new information that will affect the rest of your lives? Because I have to be honest, I've read through the entire thread. You've been given excellent advice, but you've adamantly seemed as if you are kind of denying that there is a neurological problem, and that you expect the child to not only behave as a normal 6 yo, but as a much older child would (For example: you bring him ‘extra’ treats and he doesn’t seem grateful...did you know you have to teach your children proper social responses, whether they have a neurological disorder or not? Did you expect him to KNOW that he needed to fall down in front of you in gratefulness that you’d bestowed an extra treat upon him? Just wondering, some parents truly are like that)

You claim to have tried many different meds over the course of a year...Um, my husband is disabled. We spent TEN YEARS trying different meds until one was found that works correctly, with minimal side effects. Medication is not an exact science, believe it or not. What works well for one causes an allergic reaction in another. There is simply no formula for what will and won’t immediately work for any individual, and if you’ve only been trying for a year, you’ve not even BEGUN to run the gamut of all possible solutions. DON’T GET ME WRONG; I’M NOT SAYING THAT YOU HAVE TO MEDICATE, BUT THAT YOU SEEM TO HAVE GIVEN UP AWFULLY EASILY ON THAT...Speaking from pure experience.

Kelly, Denikka, and others have offered excellent advice to you. Kelly, for one, has worked in situations requiring the exact methods that you are having troubles with, and she’s trying to give you tips and pointers. Denikka may not be a medical professional, but then again, none of us are on this site, and we can only offer opinions and insights based on situations that we have personally been in or witnessed.

[deleted account]

He wanted to go on a bike ride with the neighbor kids but ride a scooter instead of a bike and I told him "NO" after that he started throwing a fit so I picked him up carried him to his bed and went to walk away (because at first his fit was not that bad so I put him on his bed to calm down and I told him that) but as I went to walk away he still had his shoes on and started kicking (he was laying on his back on his bed) my hand/wrist as I was trying to walk away. after the first kick I tried to restrain him but he kept kicking so I couldn't even get a hold of him.

[deleted account]

You are doing it wrong, if you grab him properly from behind, his foot should not bend in a way that it can make contact with your hand. I think maybe you were trying to restrain him from in front of him, and you can't do it that way, you have to get behind him. He is going to get in some blows, and they will hurt, that is a given, but if you come at him from the proper angle, he shouldn't be able to do any more damage than a few bruises and scratches.

I'm sorry to say this, but if you cannot contain him at age 6, you NEED to get him into an inpatient facility. As he gets older, bigger, and stronger, if you continue to fail to contain him and fail to address his mental issues he will become a danger not only to you, but to your community as a whole. It is YOUR responsibility to keep him from hurting other people, and if you cannot do it at home, you need to make sure he is in a safe place where professionals can control, and hopefully, help him.

You didn't mention in your update what you did prior to the tantrum during which you were kicked. What triggered his outburst? What methods did you use to diffuse the anger before it got out of hand? It is hard for us to give you advice if we do not know the specifics of the situation because, as I mentioned before, the key to diffusing the situation is to address the issue at the root, and we cannot find the root cause without specific details of the situation at hand.

[deleted account]

Little update........................My 6 year old through a fit, tried to rrestain him the way I was taught but before I could he started kicking with his shoes on and kicked my right hand so many times and so hard its been swollen for two in a half days...........seen a dr nothing is broke but I have to wear a splint, take ibuprofen and ice it till the swelling goes away......................

[deleted account]

If you don't want to let him mark off list items with a dry erase marker, you can also buy removable cling stickers for him to place over the tasks he has completed. That said, he wouldn't be able to get the pens into your eyes if they are properly attached to the wall by the frame. Use an eye hook screwed into a stud above his reach, attach the pen with a strong, metal or fiberglass cord and superglue. Secure the cord close to the frame with a second eye hook so that there is less slack. If he is able to pull the lower eye hook loose, he will not have the proper leverage to get the upper one out. Just remove him and resecure the hook.

How does your child do his homework and school work if he is not allowed to be around pens or pencils? You cannot just ban items because he threatens to use them to hurt you--have you banned forks and spoons as well? They can be put into your eyes as well. Your child has ODD, he is going to threaten to hurt you, and he will probably never get past this until you connect with him and deal with his frustrations. If his illnesses are so sever that you worry for your own safety and cannot even let him use a felt tip dry erase marker, you need to get him into an inpatient facility.

[deleted account]

Miriam.....I will not do the writing thingy that the other lady spoke of because my son is not allowed to be around any pens pencils crayons or markers because he has threatened to put pens in my eyes.

The joking is fine with me..........It has been making me laugh lol .............

My son likes sports but refuses to listen to the rules of a sport. :(

My sons real father is not involved. (it was a bad relationship, i left him when i found out I was pg, he use to take him every other weekend but only when he wanted to see my son, and now i haven't heard from him since christmas last year. My son don't like his real father, My son says "I don't want to go there, their mean to me" His real father is bipolar and so his is grandpa on that side of the family and they refuse to get help for their issues and when my son was seeing his real dad, His real father would through away my sons medications instead of giving them to him.)

Miriam - posted on 07/23/2013

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careful I tried that for my kids (I have fibromyalgia so I forget a lot and it was to also help me keep on track) They wrote all over the walls just to tick me off.

Sorry if I seem neg. joking a bit I am trying to lighten your mood at the same time. I do understand the frustration. One of my kids is not diagnosed with Autism but he is always rocking and humming and loosing focus and occasionally aggressive. I do find letting him rock better then telling him to stop and act normal because this is how he lets that aggressive behavior out. It is frustrating when they are all fighting at the same time (like right now.........)

I find joking on the neg. side lets me see the brighter side of my kids and of parenting.

I do wish all the best for you. Is there any sports he likes you can get him in? I also know that being he is 6 there is not much available (my oldest is 7 so we have that issue) As for paying a lot of places will give you a good discount or even free if you are on food stamps as well.

If I am not intruding where is dad in this picture as it may also be a part of the problem.

[deleted account]

A child with that many mental issues is not going to respond to regular discipline, and at 6 years old, he WILL continue to threaten you--that is part of the disorders he is struggling with, so in order to treat the threats, you have to treat the disorders.

Miriam's advice about the basket hold is very good--we use it often in our shelters to calm adults, if done properly, you can hold anyone in this hold--I am 5'1" and weigh only 100 pounds, but I have successfully held 200 pound men in this hold. If your 6 year old, who is only 3/4's your size is hurting you during the hold, you are not doing it properly. Have his doctor go over it with you again. Also, it is VERY important to remember when restraining a child in a basket hold, that you don't just hold them there in silence. The whole time you are holding him, you need to be reassuring him that you understand that he is frustrated, and that it will be okay once he calms down.

Denikka has a good point too--if you have only been trying different drug combos for a year, there is no way you have tried everything. Also, if your doctor is only trying the strongest drugs, you need to see someone else--find a way to do it. It is a known fact in the medical community that drugs that are too strong can, and usually do, result in making symptoms of mental illness worse. If he is struggling with aggression, and they give him a drug that is too strong to calm him, he WILL become more aggressive. If your doctor doesn't understand that, he or she needs to be investigated. If you are against drugs for personal reasons, that is fine too, but you will want to work with a psychologist as opposed to a psychiatrist. A psychologist will be more open to working through these issues with behavior modification, whereas a psychologist will lean more toward a chemical/drug solution. They are both good, but they practice differently, so you want to make sure you are working with a doctor that fits your philosophies.

Last, here is my own advice. I do work with people coping with mental illnesses, so I have some ideas of what they respond to.
First, NEVER hit a child with ODD--it will only make them more oppositional and less responsive to your attempts at connection. Not even a swift pop.
Second, keep his triggers in mind when you plan your days and activities. As you know, children with OCD and ASD usually become very frustrated when they transition from one activity to another. Your child has both of these, so make sure he is prepared for transitions. Set a schedule and stick to it. Buy a kitchen timer--the kind with the dial that you wind up and let it count down until it dings. Set it for the amount of time you will spend on each activity you embark upon and tell him, when the dial reaches this point, a bell will ring and it will be time to do the next thing. He will be able to watch the time tick away and prepare himself for the transition.
Third, children with ADHD get A LOT of frustration because their thoughts get away from them. Make lists and post them throughout your home to keep him on track. Put them in small, cheap frames and attach a dry erase marker so that he can mark items off. For example, in the bathroom, hang a list that says "Shower, PJ's, Brush Teeth, Clothes in Hamper" As he completes each task, he will cross it off. As he crosses it off, he will automatically see the next item and stay focused. To those without ADHD, I know this seems silly, but trust me, it will take away a TON of his frustration, which will in turn, help with some of the other issues you are having.

Miriam - posted on 07/23/2013

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Just giving pos and neg Ideas can make you think till you find the answer thats right for you. Oh here buy boxing gloves haha.

[deleted account]

Miriam I knew what you meant. :) Exactly! I am reaching out for help in all sorts of ways. The nurse thing is a great idea. I will have to do some research and see what I come up with about the nurse thing. I live in the state of IL and its hard to get help in IL. I do unexpected things like special snacks and what not every now and then. but even when I give him an unexpected treat he still acts ungrateful............He only gets lovey dovey when he really wants something. :( When he throughs fits I try to walk away but when he starts throughing things and hitting things and threatening to hurt others or himself i have to physically restrain him. :(

Miriam - posted on 07/23/2013

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I missed your last comment.... I agree meds are not the answer. Maybe to something so unexpected! Perhaps he is threatening to get attention (ok we have all heard that line) I find that when my kids are always mad doing something like letting him stay up and eat my favorite chocolate ice cream (normally off limits) all of a sudden he was all grateful and lovey dovey... Not saying ice cream is your answer haha but I am sure you get the point. Surprise him with something he wants a toy or a trip within reason with no expectations. And when he is upset dont react just smile walk away and say ok sweaty I love you.

Miriam - posted on 07/23/2013

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As for the comment on hitting....... A spanking is way different....... yes you hit but its the butt..... Most people who state hitting is not the answer either dont have kids or dont raise their kids (the daycare/nanny does)

And she was asking for solutions now. I gave one that is for a troubled child (proning) The swat on the but was merely a comment on the childs poor attitude. Give the woman a break she is reaching out!

Clara some insurance companies will allow you to have a in home nurse. Even medicaid! Tell them you would rather try that then in patient care..... Better to fix at home then ship a child off. (Only my personal opinion) not saying he should be hospitalized just saying see if a nurse is an option. This way your son gets help and you do not have to feel like the bad gay (gal) having to fight with him.

This will also get you help in your home and perhaps calm the child down. I will keep thinking on other solutions.

[deleted account]

I asked how to handle a certain issue. Medications are not always the answer. I would change doctors if I could but i can't because I am on the medical card and not a lot of doctors take the medical card! I have support groups and my son is a picky eater. I am looking at how to handle or talk to my son about his threatening people. and none of the medications have even come close to helping which means no medications will make him a zombie. I was just stating that I do not want my son a zombie. But anyways I guess everyone on here cares about medications and doctors. I was just asking a simple question but people make it more complicated then it has to be.

Denikka - posted on 07/22/2013

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You're right, I'm not a doctor. But you are also not on a medical website. You're on a website for mothers and you asked for an opinion. I gave mine. As for making your son a zombie, if the drugs are that strong and they DO make him a *zombie* then it can hardly be said that medications just *don't work on him*. Besides, just because a medication is *the strongest out there* doesn't mean that it will be effective. Different medications at different dosages affect brain chemistry differently. Medications that are not as strong or at a lower dosage in the right combination can frequently be much more effective then just throwing a child/person on the strongest stuff out there.
As for the threatening, I stand by what I said. If he HAS a weapon and threatens with it and you are unable to control the situation, then a call to police enforcement may be warranted. If he DOESN'T have a weapon and/or you CAN control that particular situation, then the call is NOT warranted.

You seem to be focusing much more on what you can't do for your son (change doctors, the medication, etc) than on the actual advice I have given (diet, finding support from parents in similar situations, etc). At this point, I'm bowing out of the conversation. I've given the best advice I can, so I hope someone else can give you more what you need.

[deleted account]

We have tried the medications that are the strongest ones of all the medications for all of these and I refuse to make him a zombie. You are not a Doctor so do not try to explain medications to me....I have taken college classes on medications and have done plenty of research on medications.............and he has had scissors one time while threatening me, and pens while threatening me..............

Denikka - posted on 07/22/2013

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If he is unmanageable in your care and realistically a danger to himself and others, then you may need to look at in patient options.
If it has only been just over a year of trying different medications though, I will have to greatly disagree with your doctor that medications don't affect him. It can take many years and many different combinations of medications and different dosages to find what works. Realistically, you need at LEAST 6 weeks on a medication to truly see its effects, and then another 3-6 weeks off to clear it from your system to try something new.
With so many different diagnoses, there are dozens of medications, and hundreds of combinations. They cannot all have been tried in such a short amount of time. There are adults who have been trying for 5, 10, 15 years on different medications and dosages before they find what works.

I won't disagree that he may or may not be an actual danger. I'm not in your situation and I don't know him. But if you call the police and tell them that your 6yr old threatened you, you're likely to be laughed at. What I meant by a clear and present danger is an actual attempt at harming himself or others. If he has a weapon and is threatening someone with it, that type of situation. A verbal threat would not constitute a dangerous situation.

[deleted account]

He is medicated. been trying different medications for over a year now and his dr. and counselor have said that if this med we are trying right now does not work then my son will be a child that medications have no effect on.............I am on the medical card so I can not go get second or third opinions................... Threatening to kill himself, me others and threatening to put pens in peoples eyes is a present danger..............

Denikka - posted on 07/21/2013

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Miriam, hitting a child, especially one who has known mental and behavioral issues is NOT going to help at all.
Calling the cops won't help either. That should be reserved only for situations where there is a clear and present danger to your, or someone else's, safety.

I would really suggest that you find some new doctors and counselors if the ones you have are not helping you. Seek out second, third, fourth opinions until you find one willing and able to work with you. I don't know exactly what kind of counselor you have been seeing, but I would highly suggest a behavioral specialist, especially one with a background in your sons problems.
I would also suggest that you look into different solutions than what you're currently trying. You don't say if your child is medicated or not, but if not, that might be something to look into. If he is, you may want to look into changing his medication. It's not uncommon for the first medication to be prescribed to not be the best option, or to start at the wrong dosage. He may need it to be adjusted.
You can also look into his diet. Certain foods can aggravate conditions like ADHD. It can be different for every child, but two of the common ones I have heard of are gluten and red food dye. Keep a food journal of everything your son eats and try to look for a correlation between what he eats on a certain day and his behavior.

You should also seek out support. Either online or in your community. Seek out other parents who are raising children with similar issues. There are communities here on CoM, and communities on other sites that are great meeting places for those with similar issues. Those parents may be able to give you tips and tricks that you may otherwise not think of, especially if they have older children who have been through similar stages.
It's often easier for those parents who deal with troubled children 24/7 to know what to do in certain situations instead of those professionals who only deal with such children in office settings for short periods of time.

[deleted account]

I have done both and none of it helps at all......... all that makes him even worse..............His father is not in the picture and doesn't even contact us.....................I get physically hurt when I restrain him............I was taught a better way of restraining a child...............he is 3/4ths my height and almost 3/4ths my weight (I am only 5 5 and 100lbs).....................I was told by counselors and Dr.s I am doing everything right but I don't take him to his counselor again till the 29th and he has started all the threatening stuff a few days after I took him to the counselor..............I need an effective way of handling this issue because physically restraining him is not working (and I get physically hurt by it) and giving him a swat on the butt does not work on him either!

Miriam - posted on 07/21/2013

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That child needs a good swat on the butt...... I dont normally say that but I have been there just not to that degree. Is there a father in the picture and does he help? Cause that is my issue daddy dont help and contradicts me in front of them and they will use that to hurt you.

Im not saying beat the child! Im saying show him you are the boss! You can also put him in a basket hold. Sit with him with your legs wrapped around his legs and your arms around his with him sitting in front of you and back to you. Just watch for biting and throwing his head back. If he does these things you can prone him like cops do. You as genteelly as you can put him on the floor on his stomach, sit on his butt/upper legs, use your legs to hold his legs down and put both arms behind his back and use a towel to hold hims arms/hands so you dont get scratched.

IF HE THREATENS YOU OR HITS YOU no warning just do it every time. In the beginning he will fight, scream and say hurtful things and it will take a long time for him to calm down. You will after many time see it does not take as long for him to calm down or go to sleep. Also this is not against the law in any state and most psychiatric wards do this. Also they use liquid Benadryl as a prn (as needed to calm the child down) but depending on what state child protective services may see this as drugging your child but if you show that all else has failed you would most likely be ok. Also talk to the doc about Benadryl or another med that you could use to help control his out bursts.

I was a live in baby sitter to a women who worked on a ward and she had 3 small children that were the same as your son. It was scary for me at first but I soon realized how effective it is when all else fails.... I have only had to do a basket hold on one of my children while we were in a elementary school to see my other sons play. I got lots of bad looks but he was kicking me and running and yelling and throwing stuff. So I sat in the hall for all to see and it was like 45 min. (I would have chosen a more quiet place but did not see any available) and the principle was shocked on how well I handled the child. I could have carried him off kicking and screaming but what would he have learned from that.

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