Cry it Out

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Aniesha - posted on 12/16/2011

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I agree with you whole-heartedly Summer. I've cried myself to sleep too many times as an adult, and it's not something that I would ever wish on a baby. I think parents are too absorbed in their own comfort rather than considering their child's needs.

Lise - posted on 12/17/2011

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Ugh. my biggest complaint with cio is that it doesn't teach babies to sleep!!!! it teaches them not to cry. crying is a form of communication for babies, and i don't want to teach that.

you can't teach someone to sleep any more than you can teach someone to breathe. or someone's heart to beat.

Jenna - posted on 12/16/2011

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I think the article is ridiculous. First of all, where is the evidence that even suggests it's true? The author cites no known studies. Also, there is no definition given in the article of "crying it out". Most people don't let babies cry it out until they are 4-5 months old. And a typical "cry-it-out" session is usually only about 10-15 minutes long. I think that 10-15 minutes of crying and then a resulting 10 hours of sleep and then no crying the next night points to a successful method. There are so many factors that influence the development of one's brain and the development of one's psyche--to blame insecurity and attachment issues and ADHD on something like crying it out is preposterous at best.

Also, the article talks about how parents need to teach self-soothing methods, but gives no indication of what those methods might be or how we are supposed to teach them.

I just think that this article is setting up more parents to feel like failures and frustrated when they have a little one who won't sleep on their own.

Summer - posted on 12/16/2011

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I happen to agree with it... How has Crying yourself to sleep as an adult benifitied you?? its not, and its not a good practice to get your kids in. as well as the mental issues it can/does cause there are major health issues it causes. so do you really want to risk your childs health over it??? Kinda like living under powerlines there no 100% concrete proof they are dangerous however I still wont live under them

Terra - posted on 12/19/2011

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It doesn't matter how many articles are written or how many studies are done mama's that use cry it out are never going to admit that it may be harmful because they don't want to believe they may have done something to harm their baby (either short or long term). You best bet is to not bother arguing with someone who believes strongly in cry it out but instead to educate new parents on the possible dangers and the alternatives (like those in the Dr. Sears book or perhaps the "No cry sleep solution").

http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/1998/04....

And even Feber himself changed his views on cry it out - http://babyparenting.about.com/b/2005/11...

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Kelina - posted on 12/21/2011

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NO SUMMER IT'S NOT! and if you'd read my links and done your research then you'd know that! and that's my point! Ferber advocates letting them cry for a small amount of time, then checking on them. "Ferber's method: Facts and fiction
Rumor
Ferber says you should let your child cry it out alone in his crib until he falls asleep.

What he actually says
Ferber never says you should simply leave your baby in his crib and shut the door behind you. His progressive waiting approach allows you to gradually limit the time you spend in your child's room while providing regular comfort and reassurance – as well as reassuring yourself that he's okay.

Rumor
Ferber encourages parents to let their child cry until he throws up.

What he actually says
This charge is often leveled against Ferber as evidence of the callousness of his method, as if vomiting were one of the goals of his approach. In reality, it's true that a baby who cries long and hard enough may vomit, but such incidents are rare.

Ferber's point is that in the unusual case that vomiting happens, it shouldn't deter you from sleep training.

His advice? To matter-of-factly clean your child up and then leave the room. Ferber believes that a tantrum or an extended period of crying alone won't hurt a child in the long run." http://www.babycenter.com/0_the-ferber-m... "The Ferber method departs from extinction training in one key respect: It permits parents to check on their children—but only briefly and according to a strict schedule. On the first night of training, parents put their child to bed and then stay away for 3 minutes. After a brief check (during which the parents take care not to pick up or hold the child) the parents leave again—this time for 5 minutes. Subsequently, parents wait 10 minutes between visits until the child finally falls asleep." http://www.parentingscience.com/Ferber-m...
"The Ferber Method

The Ferber Method is not simply a "cry it out" approach to getting your baby to sleep. Instead, like some "no cry" methods, Dr. Ferber's methods will help you teach your baby go to sleep and sleep all night without crying or with a minimum of crying." http://pediatrics.about.com/od/sleep/a/1... "The Ferber Method shows parents how to teach their child to soothe himself to sleep from the age of 5 or 6 months. The method has proven controversial, mainly because it has been misunderstood as a harsh system of letting the baby cry it out until he falls asleep. As the outline below shows, there is considerably more parental involvement in the Ferber method than many people have been led to believe." http://www.professorshouse.com/Family/Ba... Since you've disdained to read my links I will post the parts that directly relate to what you said. And I'm going to be the first to say, on these links it says for progressively longer periods of time, and gives starting off with 5, then some say up to 10 or seven, but never more than fifteen by the end. Personally when I advocate it, I say every five minutes the first night, every 6-7 minutes the next night etc. Next, as I ahve stated perviously if you are going to tell me that people have had their kids taken away for using the CIO method PROPERLY then prove it. If as you say someone is leaving their child in their crib to cry for extended periods of time, and not tending to them whatsoever, that is not the CIO method and it IS neglect. And chances are if that is happening then there are other forms of neglect and abuse going on in the home.

Summer - posted on 12/21/2011

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Ok and Crying for 5 minutes is NOT the CIT method. Ferber says leave them to cry till they themself stop. Period. And there ARE health implications as well as developemntal and emotional trama that is caused by CIO

Summer - posted on 12/21/2011

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Kelina, its also been said that the FERBER method is ABUSIVE and in some states children have been taken away be CPS for letting kids CRY IT OUT, as it is veiwed as NEGLECT

Kelina - posted on 12/21/2011

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I should also point out something else. I will always advocate other methods of getting baby to sleep before I advocate CIO because I believe that there are other more gentle methods that work. CIO is by no means the only method that ever works. However, I think that labeling someone a selfish parent or a bad parent because they chose to use CIO as a method to get their children to sleep is wrong. I think that telling a parent who has used CIO correctly that they've damaged their child irreparably or that they're selfish is ridiculous. And I think that the people who aren't using CIO correctly are often the people who don't give a damn and are neglecting their kids in other ways, so research done on their kids can't be reliable. Even research done on kids whose parents did use CIO properly is unreliable because there are a whole host of other ways we ca mess up our kids and I'm going to give you an example from mine. Whenmy daughter was four months old she began sleeping in the room next to my son. When he would throw a tantrum or get upset because it was naptime, I'd look at him and tell him to stop crying before he woke up his sister. I didn't realize the damage I was doing, all I was thinking about was not waking up the baby, until one day he tripped on the big metal grate in our hallway. I knew he was in pain, but for some reason he wasn't crying. He was working very hard not to. And I realized right then and there that I'd done that. I've also worked my ass off to correct it, always telling him it's ok to cry when he's hurt or upset, and he's finally getting there now that my daughters a little over a year. It's taken me more than six months to correct the damage I did in two and is still a work in progress. And to be honest I'd be skeptical of studies done on long term effects of CIO anyways because every child is different and has a different presonality and there can be no control subjects in a study like that. My kids are both well behaved, they share well, my son is polite for the most part, and a wonderful little boy to be around. He has his moments but all kids do. My SIL daughter was never allowed to CIO, yet she's aggressive, can't share, and is overall a bully. In fact in my experience the kids who have not had parents who used CIO are often ill behaved nightmares. Should we blame that on CIO? no, it's how they're parented. I truly believe that how we parent our kids overall has more effect on our children than how we choose to get them to go to sleep.

Kelina - posted on 12/21/2011

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well then I'll take my permanently damaged kids, and let them love, laugh and play, while I selfishly continue to wathc out for their wellbeing, get up with them when they cry during the night, comfort them when they're hurt or sick and watch them grow into permanently damaged adults who can't function or form permanent relationships because I allowed them to cry for five minutes at a time unsupervised. OMG I'm a terrible parent! My kids should be taken away because I'm selfish and obviously don't care about them! And you know what? That's the biggest load of crap I've ever spouted in my life. Show me one child that it has permanently damaged who has not been abused in some other way and maybe I'll start to believe you. Show me research taht has been done in a study over a period of AT LEAST 10-15 years followling the same kids who were allowed to cry it out and maybe I'll listen. But as yet, there have been no studies done that I'm aware of that follow children long ternto find out what the long term effects are. And to be honest there probably never will be because there is such a large host of other factors involved in parenting, no child can be parented exactly the same as another which means any study done would be inconclusive. Right now the studies SPECULATE and THEORIZE about the long term effects that CIO can have on a child. And if my kids couldn't count on me to protect them or comfort them, then they wouldn't come to me when they are hurt or cry for me when they're scared. And when you post an argument try having links to back them up because right now all you've got is your word.

Summer - posted on 12/21/2011

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its UN NEEDED STRESS on a baby that has ZERO ability to Cope with stress

Summer - posted on 12/21/2011

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put it this way, having your kids CRY IT OUT, is teaching them they cant count on mom or dad, they cant trust us to protect them or to comfort them when they need it. It is a VERY VERY selfish from of parenting. and YES it HAS been proven tht is causes both PERMINANT damage to the brain, hormones and causes heart problems later in life..

Amanda - posted on 12/20/2011

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Thank you all for your responses. I don't want a 'heated' debate over this. As with anything, it is best to do what we find best for our own kids. A nurse practitioner recommended CIO when my son was young because he had so many people that allowed him different things when it came to bed time.

Kelina - posted on 12/19/2011

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Terra you need to do a little more reasearch. http://www.babycenter.com/0_the-ferber-m... Take a look at page two. The revised version of the book did not completely change the method it just made a few revisions and one of those revisions was NOT that you should allow your child to cry for up to 45 minutes by themselves, about.com is like wikipedia-don't trust it until you've verified the facts in several other places. Furthermore, I absolutely believe that our children are strongly a product of how we choose to parent them both during the day and at night. The problem is that everyone disagrees on whats best and when. 20 years ago they told parents if they allowed their babies to sleep on their backs, they'd die of sids. Now they say putting them on their stomachs does the same. A huge problem with infant research is that you have to rely largely on what the parents say not on actual fact. It's like the aids studies that have been done in correlation with circumcision. I know I've donet hings wrong with my kids. It's not that I don't think I may have doen something to harm them because I have. And When I realized it, I've tried desperately to correct it. But CIO is not one of them. You might as well tell an overwrought mom who has to let her baby cry while she gets herself together that she's damaging her child. Because it's exactly the same thing, small amounts of crying is not going to harm a child. Leaving a child to cry, in excess of 10 minutes at a time, consistently, or consistenly letting them cry til they puke is not healthy. It's also NOT CRY IT OUT. And if you'd actually read my links you'd know this. But I could say the same thing about people who are convinced that CIO is evil, because so far in two different threads no one has bothered to read the links and information I've posted, and give me a strong argument against the TRUE CIO method. Again, as I posted on a different thread, there is a large difference between the CIO method, and neglect/idiocy.

Lise - posted on 12/17/2011

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Kelina - i should have been more specific - it teaches babies not to cry in certain circumstances. if it teaches them to sleep (which is not what you said, but what others have said), then anytime they were laid down they would immediately fall asleep.

Kelina - posted on 12/17/2011

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lol Lise if it teaches babies not to cry the i'm peanut butter. My daughters a crier, it drives me insane, but I used CIO and she sleeps just fine. The inventor of the CIO method doesn't say it teaches babies to learn to sleep. http://www.parentingscience.com/Ferber-m... It just teaches them to figure out how to calm themselves down enough to go to sleep. http://www.parentingscience.com/infant-s... This one is similar but involves parents being with their kids until they fall asleep. And i still hold my previous position that I posted on another thread-telling my son I'm going to bite his fingers off, or leave him in the store is probably far more emotionally damaging than getting him to go to sleep using the CIO method.

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I think that, if done properly and depending on the child, crying it out is a safe way to get your child to learn to fall asleep by themselves. There isn't a definition of crying out given in the article, so if it is talking about completely ignoring your child's cries at night then I don't agree with it. With my son, I applied crying it out in that I checked on him when he would start crying and would give him a bottle and change his diaper and check to see if he was hot or cold or whatever, then I'd give him a quick cuddle and put him back to bed. Initially, he would cry himself to sleep but I just could not stay up for hours every night because he wanted to play. It took about 3-4 nights and then he was fine. He rarely wakes up at night now, and I still respond when he does, and he goes back to sleep fairly quickly. He has figured out a way to get himself back to sleep himself, which often involves talking to himself and quietly looking at a book before dozing off. It's been about 2 years since I did it and he seems to be a well adjusted kid so far.

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