How many children do you think that a family should have?

[deleted account] ( 184 moms have responded )

Do you think a family is good to have only 1 or do you think a big family is good to have. Is there alot of people that has bigger families than smaller ones?

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[deleted account]

Elizabeth it sounds to me like you are the one trying to justify having the number of children you have, not anyone else. Nobody has said they can't wait for their children to grow so they don't have to bother looking after them, I know for most of the women here those with large families and with small families they will look after their children for their entire lives, you don't stop being a mum because your child doesn't live with you anymore (grown up).


I know personally cost hasn't come into the number of children I want/ have, I haven't had children so they can care for me in old age, I had them because I adore children and the magic they bring to life, children complete the world but there is no denying that every single person on this planet is depleting it's resources...that isn't always a bad, nobody has said having children is bad.

Do you realise you are guilty of doing precisely the thing you are moaning about to those who choose to have 1or 2 children? You have repeatedly belittled those who chose to have 1 or 2 children as anti child, unable to fully allow children into their lives, wanting to get rid of children as soon as they can, not appreciating children or understanding children's abilities, and suggesting that because they are small families they can't possibly be truly happy or are jealous of large families...it sounds like you are the one doing the attacking because you feel defensive, you are the one who feels she must justify your actions!

Jodi - posted on 05/12/2012

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"1) The most unhappy childhoods were those endured by lonely 1 only children.

Why anyone would deliberately choose to have only one child is beyond my

comprehension. Having siblings is one of life's greatest gifts.



2) The most unhappy adults are those who did

not have children or had only one or 2 and they never see them or any grandchildren." "



Allow me to suggest that maybe you see these people only because they are seeking a therapist, not because the majority of only children are unhappy. They come to you BECAUSE they are unhappy, duh! Use your logic.



Being a therapist doesn't really make you an authority on the topic, only an authority on your particular clients. Can you give me anecdotes on the large number of happy ones? No, didn't think so.



If you are going to express something as more than your personal opinion, at least back it up with some REAL research, not anecdotal bullshit.



Personally, I don't care how many children other people have, as long as I'm not the one having to support them, or carry their ass because they did an *Octomom*. Just as they shouldn't care how many I have, as long as I am not imposing on their choices. But to try and JUSTIFY your choices by putting the choices of others down is offensive. When you say something like "Why anyone would deliberately choose to have only one child is beyond my comprehension." you are being offensive. You could have expressed it as "I personally don't understand only wanting to have one child, but that's me". But no, you didn't. You deliberately phrased it in a way that would be offensive to others. And then you wonder why people are offended? Hmmmm......let me think.

Jenny - posted on 05/25/2012

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"God is the only one who can control the pollutions in the air."



Take some god damn personal responsibilty and stop deflecting the blame onto a BELIEF. The FACT is pollution is caused by man. We build the factories. We drive the cars. We toss the garbage. We poison the water and air. We create the useless products we throw out over and over just to get new ones. It enrages me to think you believe we are not reponsible for turning this planet into our personal dump. Give your head a shake!

[deleted account]

To Elizabeth, and anyone else who feels that they cannot comprehennd WHY a mom would intentionally have 1 child. So to quote you, "Why anyone would deliberately choose to have only one child is beyond my comprehension."



So here is your comprehensive list to include oin your professional education as a therapist, assuming you hold advanced higher degrees in a specialty area. Please start using this in practice:



WHY I HAVE ONE CHILD



1. I am not as maternal as I expected to be

2. Atfer 3 miscarriages, including a vey short stint with infertility, and an attempt at adoption, I was emotionally drained

3. My son arrived 1 month premature, very unexpected, and I was emotionally not ready

4. I felt like a failure at breastfeeding, and my son was small to begin with- failure to thrive started to set in

5. I went undiagnosed postpartum depression for at least 6 months

6. I realized I missed work terribly

7. I honestly have no yearning, urge, or desire for more kids

8. I felt that I didn't bond with my son

9. I did not "feel" like a mother until he was easily 10-11 months old

10. I realized I honestly don't like babies, and not ashamed to say it either

11. My pregnancy was nerve-wracking, wondering if I was going to m/c again, even after I got the proper medical assistance; nothing helped me to relax during pregnancy

12. Hubby & I were not on the same page during those early months

13. I read and researched benefits and advantages of raising an only child, and lo and behold, it turned out hubby was doing the same.



I am so at peace with my decision to not have any more children. UNWANTED children. Get it?! *YOU* don't get to knock down another parent's decision as to how many children they have. *YOU* defend large familes, I defend small families.



My son may be only, but not lonely, and sure as hell not spoiled. He has so many friends in our neighborhood, involved in karate and other sports, very close in age with his cousins, one of them only 6 months apart. All 3 boys attend the same school. Is it a sibling replacement? NO! But trust me when I say that I know many spoiled with sibling children! It is my job as a prent to see to it that he is resposnbile, does his chores, homework, kind to others, a good person.



So now yo uare educated as to WHY someone choses not to bring in another unwanted life. For the record, my husband and his brother hate each other. Right now my sister is on my permanent shit list. Siblings are a blessing?!

Johnny - posted on 05/12/2012

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Children are a great hope and a precious gift. It is our complete responsibility to them to pass on a world that they can thrive in rather than struggle to survive. Placing too many people on the planet does not give them a chance for a better future, it does not give them some sort of unlimited potential, it takes away from them the opportunity to have enough resources to sustain the population, you can ignore this if you so choose, but those that do not aren't doing so because of some lack of love for children.

You are reading into our comments something that simply is NOT there. I adore kids. I chose a life of working with them and right now I am joyfully expecting my second. It will definitely be my final biological child, but if the future leads us to have more kids by adoption or fostering, we are definitely open to that. My husband and I have agreed that unless something unforeseen happens we will be fostering children as our family grows older. It is something we have done before and will do again. If that was to lead to adoption, then that will be the right thing.

If I did not believe that our planet is severely over-populated and at risk at this time, I would have more biological children. We can afford it and it would be something that would bring us great joy. But the operative word in that sentence is US. It would be nice for my husband and I to have a large family. But it would be the wrong thing to do for our children and all of those to come. So we choose to sacrifice our selfish desires in order to hopefully make this world a better place, or to at least do our part. We work hard to live life with a small footprint, and not having more children is a part of that. Just like it would be easier and nicer to have two cars and use disposable products, it would be great to have more kids. I actually do very much understand the desire to have a large family. But there are bigger concerns than what is nicest and easiest for US.

It is true, I am angry about this. It actually viscerally disgusts me, and I find it incredibly immoral that people actively chose to ignore "logic, numbers, bare facts" that show that we are harming the planet because they instead selfishly go with "following our hearts and dreams and fully embracing the gift of children" without stopping to think how those currently embraced children will one day be effected. To me, it is just like choosing to speed outrageously down the highway while drinking a beer and smoking with the windows up while your kids are in the back seat of the car. They might make it through today and have fun doing it, but one day it is going to catch up with them.

Not only am I responsible to my children for all the days of my life (no, I'm not just counting the days until I'm "free" of them, I don't believe in that), I am responsible to my children for all of their life and the lives of their offspring too. I simply do not have the right to do whatever the hell I want now regardless of the results down the line.

And I suggest before you accuse of using skewed mathematics and half-baked theories, you should spend some time doing research outside of politically and religiously biased websites. You know, take a look at some actual peer-reviewed and tested scientific studies.

This conversation has been closed to further comments

184 Comments

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Jenny - posted on 05/25/2012

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Excatly Liz, facts are observable by others. That's why I don't beleive in a god, there are no facts to back it up.

Liz - posted on 05/25/2012

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Just because you don't believe it, doesn't make it a fact. Just because I say I don't believe in gravity doesn't mean that if I decide to jump off a roof that I won't fall.

[deleted account]

"Obviously, all these women want is to argue."

Isn't that the point of a debate? To argue and defend one's stance based on facts? However, one must be careful not to state a personal opinion as a proven fact.

[deleted account]

I want to say to all who seems to be affended by the beliefs that I have said here in my past posts. I have never attended to put anyone down by no means. We all do have our own beliefs.I have my own beliefs, the same as you. I believe there is an Almighty God whom has created us all. God has given His own Son for our sins, to give us the chance to learn. No, you may not agree with me. As for what Bible I use is the King James Bible. I never said any of you has the same Bible or even a different one.
I have every right to claim my opinion and beliefs as you do. I believe there is a God, wether you do or not. I am not trying to put anyone down, because you don't believe the same as I.
No this posting wasn't started out to bring up about God at all. It was about how many children is good for a family to have. Yes, we all have our own opinions on how many children that your own family should have. Just because one believes that a family should have only 1 or 2 doesn't mean that one should have only 1-2 children.That is your beliefs, the same as you cut me down for having my beliefs in God. You want to state your beliefs the same as I.These posts are to be about how many children one has and so forth. Noone is supposed to cut others down because they don't have the right amount of children that others seems fit.
As for pollution...yes we do make our contribution in the pollution in this world. But I believe that God allows it. I never said that God put the pollution here on the earth. As for the horse and buggy thing...No, that isn't my solution, it was only an option. So how did the housing, and so forth come into the horse and buggy thing?
As I had written before...God is a belief that I have. Wether you agree with it or not.

Saffire..yes, my husband and I have brought our children into this world and we wouldn't have it any other way. But...God allowed us to have our children. He has blessed us with our children. You may not believe in God whatsoever. Whatever floats your boat is fine with me. But you need no reason to put me down, all because you don't believe what I believe. I never expected you or anyone else to agree with my beliefs, That is why they are MINE. I never said OURS.And I am not preaching to anyone. You tell me to go somewhere else. The way I see it, if you don't like what I write on my beliefs, then maybe you need to go somewhere else.I am not trying to affend you or anyone else. If you feel affended on me believing in God, whom you don't believe in, then so be it.

Yes, we all work our butts off for the things we have and don't give any credit to a Man upstairs. You may not be working for God as you say.
The thing is....MY BELIEF is that God allows things and He gives and can take away. No, you do not have to agree. God gave me my children. YOu can say God gave you or didn't give you a blessing. That is up to you. I will not go any futher. I am not preaching, like you may think. I am giving my opinion and if noone likes my opinion, then don't read it. I'm not asking for anyone to agree with me or for their opinions on my beliefs.

Liz - posted on 05/25/2012

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@ Krista: I am curious as to which part of the Bible condones slavery? Yes, there are stories of slavery in the Bible, but I know of none which actually condone it. Can you enlighten me?

Liz - posted on 05/25/2012

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Michelle, since you started this conversation, you can close it to further comments if you wish. Obviously, all these women want is to argue.

Krista - posted on 05/25/2012

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It's like speaking to someone from a different planet, seriously. Okay, let's start at the salient points:

If people stops having children and even aborting them, Who is going to take care of the elderly and you when you get older?

People are still having plenty of children. I most certainly don't requite 8 children to care for my elderly ass.

So many children are being aborted now...so how is the world getting more and more populated when so many are being killed. I believe that there are more children being killed than being born. There has been a dramatical drop in children being born in the past 15-20 years.According to statics is has dropped by 40%.

That still does not change the fact that the world population is growing exponentially. Believe whatever you want, but that is irrefutable fact. Even if there was a "dramatical" drop in childbirth, if you look at the sheer NUMBER of people on Earth, even a drop in childbirth amounts to no more than plugging up one or two of the holes in a colander.

As for the pollution in the air...yes, factories and vehicles does pollute the air. So why don't people fix that problem by going back the way things were in the past. Use horse and buggy if you have to.

So a horse and buggy is your solution to creating housing, clothing and consumer goods for 7 billion people? That might have worked back when we had a more manageable global population, but it's not going to work now.

Beside that, God is the only one who can control the pollutions in the air. He creates and He controls. And as for these scientists having brains..they have brains because God gave them knowledge.

So if your god gave them the knowledge to develop birth control, then why is it such a horrible thing to limit family size?

To how people can say their isn't a God...YOu need to look around! People came from God. The saying is ..dust to dust...YOu are of the dust that God made you from.
Everything given is from God.


I am looking around. It is your OPINION that people came from your god. However, as much as you would like to say that your beliefs are proof, they are not. If proof requires belief, then it is not actual proof. True objective evidence is irrefutable, regardless of belief. And there is absolutely NO objective evidence to date that proves the existence of ANY deity.

[deleted account]

"But who gave you that job? God gave you that job, by having someone hire you"

Sorry- I do not work for God. I teach for an amazing school district that emplys highly qualified educators and *I* worked my ass off to achieve my advanced education and ceritifications. *I* did, not God. My employment contract is not with God.

[deleted account]

"God is the only one who can control the pollutions in the air."

Are you serious?! OMG- that is the funniest thing in the world! No, I am afraid that man started to pollute the air when the Industrial Revoultion was "birthed" in the mid to late 1700's in the New England area of the United States.

It was SCIENCE and MAN, not some devine intervention.

[deleted account]

And, why the hell do you keep insisting that EVERYONE has to follow your religious belief?!

Why can't you accept that people do not beleive in god, or believe in other faiths? Worship multiple god/goddesses?

[deleted account]

Here's an idea- let's leave RELIGION out of it.

So did GOD really boom out of the clouds or visit you in your bedrooms and personally TELL you to have children?

Michelle, what makes you think YOUR God and YOUR Bible is the same as mine? It's not, I can assure you that. And spewing your religious doctrines into a personal opinion debate adds less to your credibility. Oh, becasue God says to procreate and make babies. No- You and your husband make the personal decision as to how many babies you want. It is a huge turn-off to continue the bible-thumping tactics in order to defend your position.

And your position is simply this: you & your husband made the personal decision to have a large family. Period. End of discussion.

But to continue droning on about all of us need to go and read our bibles and follow what god says? Take your preaching to the Christian Moms board instead.

[deleted account]

The way I see it that God will stop women from having children if He sees fit. The question for many is...If people stops having children and even aborting them, Who is going to take care of the elderly and you when you get older? God will provide for people if they believe and have faith. So many children are being aborted now...so how is the world getting more and more populated when so many are being killed. I believe that there are more children being killed than being born. There has been a dramatical drop in children being born in the past 15-20 years.According to statics is has dropped by 40%.

As for the pollution in the air...yes, factories and vehicles does pollute the air. So why don't people fix that problem by going back the way things were in the past. Use horse and buggy if you have to. Beside that, God is the only one who can control the pollutions in the air. He creates and He controls.
And as for these scientists having brains..they have brains because God gave them knowledge.
To how people can say their isn't a God...YOu need to look around! People came from God. The saying is ..dust to dust...YOu are of the dust that God made you from.
Everything given is from God.

Jenny - posted on 05/25/2012

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First of all, children are not miracles and pregnancy is a direct result of breeding in all species. Reproduction is the sole purpose of everything on this planet period. There is nothing condescending about using that term. Just because we are humans does not make us special. We are basically hairless apes that think we are pretty important. Reality check: we do not live above nature or the Earth, we are part of a larger system. Come out of your bubble and have a look at the big picture. Look at our planet and show me where the dotted lines are that keep us all seperated. Maybe we should start taking personal responsibilty for our choices and knock it off with the what god wants stuff.

Krista - posted on 05/25/2012

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@Stifler's Mom: "Breeding"...really? Isn't that a term reserved for livestock, dogs and cats? I would hope someone who is a mother would have more respect for the miracle and blessing of children.

Well, you can make it as flowery as you want, but when it comes down to brass tacks, that IS what it amounts to. We are animals, we breed young. Is it the term I normally use? No. But it's not INaccurate.

Krista - posted on 05/25/2012

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For starters, your belief in God is just that: a belief. You have absolutely no way of knowing for SURE that there is a God or an afterlife, so you are trying to justify the destruction of the planet on something that very well may not be true. Besides, if your god is responsible for your job and your food, then is he not also responsible for giving scientists the brains to develop contraception?

Secondly, nobody is suggesting that we should all stop having children. Nobody is suggesting that you should not be allowed to have children. All that we are saying is that people should REALLY consider limiting their family size. The economy will survive just fine if each couple averages two children.

Thirdly, you, once again, are not thinking things through. An increase in population DOES lead to increased pollution. Think about it, Michelle. If I have 1 child, and that child grows up and drives a car, that puts X amount of pollution into the air. If I have 16 children, and they all grow up and drive cars, then that puts 16X pollution into the air.

As well, think about this: if billions and billions of people have been added to the world population just within the last 40 years, then all of those people need clothing, and housing, and personal items, and whatnot. Where is all of that stuff made? Factories. Increased need = increased production = increased pollution.

Plus, you say that an increased population is good because we put out carbon dioxide for the trees and plants. Has it not occurred to you that as there are more and more and more humans on the Earth, there will be fewer and fewer and fewer trees and plants, due to these trees and plants being cut down to make room for these extra billions of people?

It alarms me that you refer to these things as "stupid' and "dumb", when you obviously have not even really thought them through.

[deleted account]

There's something that I don't understand about people..People talk about how it is bad for a family to keep on having children...That this world is getting too many children in it. You know something.. that is right down stupid. If you stop all of these children from being born or don't think women like me shouldn't have anymore children because I / we have enough in our family. First off if one woman wants to have 4 children and one...like me wants to have 6 or somebody else wants to have 10 ...IT IS OUR DECISION. Besides. who in the heck is going to keep the economy up when we are old.The young will help keep the economy up. As for more children being brought into the world and that gives us more pollution to breath..That's dumb. For the simple reason is...these factories and such is what is putting pollution in the world. Plants and trees is what puts oxygen out for us to breath and we breath for the plants and trees..We put out carbon dioxide for the trees and plants. I don't think too many people thinks about some of the things they write.
Another thing...God wants people to have children...not to not to have children. The children are blessings to us and to God. Many christians and those who believe in God will agree.
Another thing...People say the world is having too many children and it's going to be overpopulated and such. Well maybe you need to read your bibles about God's resurrections...You think people are having too many children and the world is going to be toooo overpopulated. Wait until God resurrects people who has died...They will be on earth, right along with alll children who are being born..OH MY....WE SURE ARE GOING TO BE TOOOO OVERPOPULATED , AREN'T WE? God is the one who gives power to all, He is the one who gives you the things he gives. He is the one who feeds you. Yes, you have jobs, to buy food and such for you and your family...But who gave you that job? God gave you that job, by having someone hire you. There are so many who does not even at all, not even a speck, thanks God for all that is given. That is a total shame.God wants us to have children, if we can..

[deleted account]

WAY TO GO TO CATHY KING...I LIKED YOUR POST TO STIFLER....ALL SO TRUE.. SO VERY TRUE..having children isn't breeding...Maybe she calls herself breeding when she has a child. Sounds like dogs getting with dogs...That's funny.

Krista - posted on 05/25/2012

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So I see a lot of people here saying that it's a personal choice. Fair enough.

How, then, do you reconcile the fact that the results of your "personal" choice are going to be using up the resources that we ALL share, and contributing to the pollution that we ALL breathe?

I'm not saying that people shouldn't be allowed to have as many kids as they want. But it really distresses me that there are so many people here who are so short-sighted, and only thinking about their own household, and not thinking about the larger picture at ALL.

[deleted account]

This is definitely an opinion based question/answer.

I have 4 children, I believe that if you can afford children to work within your financial boundaries.

Personally and only my opinion: I was scared to have just one or two because I was afraid I would dote on them and spoil them. I also didn't want to have an odd number because it would leave ödd man out" in games and stuff within the family. So for these reasons and because at the time their father and I could afford it (sort of).

Now their father and I are divorced. We did have Girl 18, boy 16, girl 14 and boy 12. I wouldn't change things at all. I am remarried and he has no children. My ex got remarried and adopted one and then had another. They have 6 and the home is utter chaos, however, that being said the step mom had never had children, walked into my 4 and then immediately got 2 more. My heart goes out to her, 4 is enough when you work up to it but a night mare if thrust on you.

My oldest daughter is now out on her own and my 14 yr old daughter is living with us. We are all doing good so you can see that it is all a personal choice.

Krista - posted on 05/25/2012

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Oh, and another question: if I kill the children of a prophetess and adulteress, will that be an adequate defense in a court of law? After all, I'm just living according to God's design, right?

Krista - posted on 05/25/2012

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(Deuteronomy 20:10-14)

As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.

A lot less problems, indeed...

Krista - posted on 05/25/2012

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I tell you, if more people would live according to the way God has designed, there would be a lot less problems in this world.



Great idea.



So here's a question: if I live according to God's design, and I purchase a slave from the foreigners who live among me, and can also purchase their children (and pass them on to my own kids), can I choose WHICH foreigners to purchase? There's a family from India who lives down the road from me, and the wife is a really amazing cook. I would love to purchase her. He's a bit sick and old, though. Do I have to purchase them as a matching set, or can I mix 'n' match?

Liz - posted on 05/25/2012

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Those of us who are Christian's are just sharing our thoughts and opinions like the rest of you. This site is for everyone, like you said.

[deleted account]

Quoting Kathy King, "So, you're going against a basic Christian belief by shacking up? Nice."



Judgemental much?! Tsk tsk tsk....not the Christian thing to do is, it?



Sherri has contributed A LOT over the years on CoM and calling her out on a public forum like this by a fly-by-night troll is definately NOT cool!

Johnny - posted on 05/24/2012

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Kathy:

"Some of you are terribly insensitive and downright rude. That is why I don't come to this site very often. There are some mean-spirited women here. "

"And shacking up before marriage? Disgusting. And people wonder why they have drama. I tell you, if more people would live according to the way God has designed, there would be a lot less problems in this world."

"So, you're going against a basic Christian belief by shacking up? Nice."

I am almost certain you won't see the irony. But I'm posting them all together for the sake of other people's amusement.

Just so you are aware, this is not a Christian site, It's not an exclusively American site. It attracts a wide variety of diverse women from around the globe. If you are concerned about insensitivity and people being downright rude, perhaps you might want to start by looking in the mirror.

Although, I would add that you also just managed to insult a woman I know to be a good American and a good Christian.

Liz - posted on 05/24/2012

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Haha, so I realized later that my last post was actually meant for another thread, but I still stand by what I said. Oops...hehe

[deleted account]

@Stifler's Mom: "Breeding"...really? Isn't that a term reserved for livestock, dogs and cats? I would hope someone who is a mother would have more respect for the miracle and blessing of children.

[deleted account]

Liz, you are exactly right about marriage being a covenant. It's not "advanced dating" as so many people try to make it. I've read quite a few posts on COM and had to bite my tongue...woman having no problem, even encouraging 14 and 15 year old children to have sex. They just shrug it off and say, "Oh well, they are going to do it anyway." Whatever happened to the days when it was shameful to get knocked and have multiple baby daddy's? Or to even have to question who the father of the child is? And shacking up before marriage? Disgusting. And people wonder why they have drama. I tell you, if more people would live according to the way God has designed, there would be a lot less problems in this world.

Liz - posted on 05/24/2012

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Sadly, yes, Kathy. But all in the name of tolerance, right? I was reading some of the earlier posts, and it really bothers me that I am apparently "teaching my children a line of crap" by teaching them to save sex for marriage. What, exactly, is wrong with wanting that for my children? And, being married is NOT just having a piece of paper. It is a covenant between your husband and God, and a public expression of love for another person for the rest of your life.

[deleted account]

Oh, but those of us that are Christian and chose to live a moral lifestyle have to "put up and shut up" ?

Helen - posted on 05/24/2012

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I would post a reply, but it's impossible to find the recent comments.
Why not have recent posts first?

Stifler's - posted on 05/24/2012

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This is not an anti child world and nobody has told you to stop breeding. People have just defended their right to only have 1 child and responded to claims that having one child means their child is lonely and spoiled or that not having a lot of kids means they aren't fully welcoming children into their lives.

[deleted account]

I hope those of you that are condeming large families are keeping your mouths shut to those who chose to have large families! What business is it of yours when you are not the one paying the bills. Some of you are terribly insensitive and downright rude. That is why I don't come to this site very often. There are some mean-spirited women here.

Elizabeth - posted on 05/23/2012

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I really appreciate your posts Michelle. Much of what you said truly resonated
with me. I am not religious, but I believe in God & the same basic things you do.
I admire you for both being an awesome mother of 6 in this anti-child world & for your
non-judgmental stance. I appreciate your kindness & non-judgmental way of
stating your truth. I hope the world is kind to you and yours and you enjoy a strong
supportive village to help you on your journey. As far as I am concerned YOU asked
the question and YOU had the last word with the PERFECT answer to your original
question.

I found the closure I needed here today & the healing from some hurtful stuff
encountered in this discussion & I am grateful to you for that!

I am so glad I popped back here to read your posts. YOU MADE MY DAY!
thank you, thank you thank you!

[deleted account]

First off to anyone who wants to take it they way they want to. I'm not " ranting " on about religious beliefs. I simply has added my belief in there about all children are a blessing. I started this post about how many children people have and so forth. I thank you Sapphire for your respect and your belief as well. I see it this way.. I started this post to find out how many people may have larger families compared to smaller ones and vice versa and to see how others feel about it. Then all of a sudden other things are added..." like the world is too overpopulated.". I however had to respond to this. I never intended to add any religious beliefs in this post. But, when someone thinks that too many children makes the world overpopulated and so on and so on. I understand that everyone has there own beliefs in things. Same as I. Being wrong or right is not the answer on here. It doesn't matter how many children parents has, as long as they are happy with that number. This should not have anything to do with being overpopulated. I don't need to open my eyes as some may say...to see the world is overpopulated. There will be a time when this world will have more than it already does. So I will not go there. I am not trying at all to affend anyone. I am speaking my mind, the same as anyone else. So, I started this post about the number of children families have and their outlooks, not to cut people down because someone has 1 or even 10 in that matter. If many don't want to write about that, then...why write. I will state my opinion on the outlook of others, same as many has on this post.

[deleted account]

WOW! Well this thread went into a compeltely different direction.

Michelle, I have respected everything you posted about the number of kids per family. But your really, really long religious reply is probably best for a different discussion. COM is comprised up of so many different kinds of moms from many faiths, or no faith at all. Sometimes it is very off-putting to insert religious rants where it may not belong. I can tell that you are deep in your faith and I am sure you can find a Christian Moms community here. But in the future, just be mindful of the many readers here: we do not share the same faith and long religious rants can be misinterpreted as being obnoxious.

[deleted account]

That always reminds me of a joke...let's remember the truth is often spoken in jest...

So this sailor goes out to sea fishing one day, unfortunately a huge storm hits and his boat is seriously damaged and sinks. As he is floating on a piece of drift wood The sailor thinks it's ok god will save me. After a short time a helicopter comes overhead, a rescue worker is winched down to lift the sailor to safety, no no he responds I'm fine god will save me. A little time later a cargo ship passes and sees him floating on his driftwood, they send the dingy to him, no no he responds I'm fine god will save me. A while later another helicopter comes overhead, winches a rescue worker down again to lift him to safety, no no he responds god will save. The sailor drowned. When he got to heaven he looked at god with fury and asked why didn't you save me?I trusted you! God replied I sent two helicopters and a boat....


The moral sometimes we have to use the materials provided for us, god can only help us if we help ourselves!

Johnny - posted on 05/18/2012

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I'm not interested in sticking my head in the sand and ignoring reality. Children are a gift, one that we should be thankful for. And treat with the respect that they deserve. Part of that is choosing to make the the world a better place, not just relying on God to fix everything for us. Hasn't worked out so far. You know that old saying, God helps those who help themselves?

This isn't about "judgment" or condemning people. It is asking them to think about these issues and begin to take responsiblility for their role in our future. We each have the opportunity to make a difference, and there is nothing "judgmental" in asking people to at least think about trying.

The plain and simple fact is that the world is over-populated. When we give you those growth figures, they are the numbers that come out after comparing how many people are being born to how many people are dying. The world is growing rapidly. Another 2 billion people in the next 40 years. If there are already famines and wars over water, can you just imagine how much worse that's going to get? You may not want to hear about it and to live in your little bubble, but I'm here to burst it. It has nothing at all to do with hatred, quite the opposite actually. Facing reality is the best way to show our kids just how much we love them and are grateful to have them.

Do you really just want to ignore this? Or open your eyes to the fact that we can change the future of humanity for the better? Is that not what God is wanting?

[deleted account]

Michelle, I whole heartedly agree with this statement..."God wants His children to be safe and protected. We all have to do our part for that to succeed. The world is the way it is because of the people in it"...god does want his children to be safe and protected and happy, but we have to play our part, for our children and grand children to be safe, protected and happy we need to look afer our world now.

Over population is a huge problem, yes it is true that in past generations more children were born to each family but it is also true that more babies and children died; as well as people in general having much shorter life spans. So nowadays we have better survival rates, longer life spans meaning that even though people are having less children per family our world population is still rising at an alarming rate. It is our duty to god to care about this and to look after the world he created for us rather than killing it.

Jenny - posted on 05/18/2012

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I'm sorry Michelle but I can't communicate on that level. There are facts in this world and beleifs. I operate on facts. Scientific facts.

Isobel - posted on 05/18/2012

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Evidence would suggest a big bang and then evolution. I got here because my parents copulated, sperm met an egg, and cells began to divide and multiply for approximately 9 months until my mother gave birth. I continue to survive because she fed me and raised me and protected me until I reached an age where I could take care of myself.

[deleted account]

I'm not here to argue.But if there isn't a God, then how did you get here? How did you have a child? How did everything get here? The moon, sun, trees, etc. God made all children and everything around. NO, I am not preaching , I am only speaking my mind about children, same as everyone else.

Jenny - posted on 05/18/2012

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Michelle, there is no evidence of a god. Did you start this post to discuss if large families are a good thing as indicated in your OP or to preach?

[deleted account]

I started out this post to see how many children families have and to hear the feelings out how they feel about their families. There are no disgrace for one family to have 1 child in it or even another family to have 4 or even more than that. I have 6 children myself. I would not trade my children for anything in this world. There are so many criticism going on. Too many people are putting those down who has 1 child and some are putting people down for having 4 or 6 or even 8. Every child in this world is a blessing, a miracle that God has given us. I don't care how many one has. Every woman, mother has her reasons because she has just 1. It may not because she is phyically not able to. She may have simply chosen not to have any more. There is nothing wrong with that. Same as someone having 4 or more...there are nothing wrong with having that many either. Whoever has more than 1 child isn't doing wrong for bringing more into this world. As long as the mother and father is giving their child/children love and can take care of them, then that is what matters.Just because we all don't agree with the same number of children to have in the family, doesn't mean anyone is wrong for not having the same number of children. The children are all blessings, no matter how you look at it.
Too many people judge and seem to want to condemn those who are different than what they are. Everyone has their own choice to choose what size family to have. Wether you have 1, 2 ,10..you should be gratefull for the amount you have and not judge those who has more or less than you. Think about those women who wants a biological child of their own more than anything and they can't. I feel for them in my heart and I hope and pray that one day that God will give them that chance to be a mother..to feel that little one growing inside of them, to help bring a life into this world, to see a miracle of love, to have that blessing.
We should listen to others and everyone has an opinion , wether we agree with it or not. It is all opinions. Yes, the world we live in isn't so great and has alot of bad in it. But, there is still alot of good in it too. So many tends to look at the bad and forget all about the good that's still here. To many wants to criticize , to judge one another just because they think you or I is wrong for having too little of children or too many.
Many say they are christians, some may not even believe in any words that God gives us. Some people ares saying that this world is getting tooooo populated because of the number of children women are bringing into this world. Honestly, women even having 8 children isn't a big number. If you look at the times back then..Woman had 10,12,even up to 24 children in their families. There aren't too many women out here in the world that has that many now. So, even me, having 6 isn't even close to those numbers. Some say that this world is being too populated. I dont know how many totals in this world. There are so many people dying each year, not just by famines, but by diseases and some may die from natural causes ( which are few). Any how so many are dying and few are being born. So how is the world getting so overpopulated? Many women has abortions that are wrong. It's murder no matter how you look at it. I don't care if someone don't agree with me on that at all. But to the world being so overpopulated. God says for woman to have children, not to not have any. It doesn't matter to how many children anyone has. All children, including adults are God's children. He is our creator, He is our Father. We don't have to agree with one another about anything. But alot of problems in this world is because of too many people having hatred in their hearts and are too judgemental. God and Jesus put so many examples here on earth to learn from. He gave so much love to all of us. We are to act like Him.
It seems that everyone wants to judge one another all because others aren't like you and have the same opinion as you.
Yes, there are famine going on and so much struggling in this world. It's not right either to say too many children are being born on the account of not having enough food or water. We are all God's children. So, I have to say to those who thinks that alot of children shouldn't be born all because of the famine and so forth...Maybe that's what your mom should have thought of before she had you. What if your mother, said she shouldn't have any children. Then you would not have been brought into this world. Look at the blessings in your life. Look at what God has given you. God gave you a mother to have you, to carry you, to love you and then you want to criticize others for having more children. Every child is a blessing to God. Yes, this world will get worse, But God is the one to allow it and He is the One who is going to fix it. We will all be His sons and daughters and we all will be in God's family one day. There are no reason for anyone to put others down, just because others don't agree with the same amount of children. I look at my children and I see that one day they will be in God 's kingdom and that is a BIG blessing in itself. God allows women to have children. If He doesn't want them to have any then they won't. So, to all women who has had children, Thank God for your blessings. Thank God for giving you family to share you lives with. It is a miracle for the things in life that God gives. Many don't want to see of how much God gives us in blessings. Then you have others that wants to put others down. There are alot of people struggling in life, It doesn't always have to do with having children, But why does others want to add more problems or heartache to the list. There's enough struggles in life that people don't have to add to them. Instead of having hatred in your hearts, trying giving kindness and stop being so judgemental. We all are going to be in God's family one day and we all have problems, we don't need to criticize one another. We don't need to hear about all the problems in this world about famine and so forth. I'd imagine many knows about it. But where is one's faith and hope in it, when you keep on bringing it up and bringing it up. God heals, He protects, He gives faith and knowledge to us.He is the one we need to ask help and He is the one to help you. It seems noone has the faith at all when you bring up that there isn't going to be any water or food to go around to everyone. There has been people out in the wilderness that didn't have food and God dropped down manna from the sky to them for food. This is in the Bible. If you think that famine is going to be the problem, that 's already happening. IN revelation tells you exactly what's going to happen in this world and what has already happened.
God wants His children to be safe and protected. We all have to do our part for that to succeed. The world is the way it is because of the people in it. Noone wants to give respect or show any kind of decentcy to anyone. There are very few. Every child is God's child, including adults. We are all blessings. We are all given blessings. So, I have to say to all mothers.. don't worry about what others think of you about the size family you have. You are the one who has the choice to bring however many children you want into this world and to be happy about it. I'm happy with the amount of children I have and I don't care who thinks I'm stupid with having this many. I will always love them and protect them no matter what. I will also rely on God for help. You have to have faith in things. So, congradulations to all who has 1 child or even more. God has blessed you and gave you miracles. Be good to your family, they will help you through anything.

Johnny - posted on 05/18/2012

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I am not sure what exactly Elizabeth is alledging, but I have not sent her or anyone else from this thread private messages nor will I. I also have not violated THUMPS anywhere in this thread.

Elizabeth, if you could please let me know which supposed "abusive message" or "nasty comments" I have made to you. Although, at this point in the thread I am fairly certain given your past behaviour that you wll chose to avoid answering this. Mostly because I have not done this.

I am simply arguing my perspective that it is not healthy for the planet for people to bear large numbers of biological children. I realize that many people here may not like that message, but it is not specifically intended to be a personal attack. It is a political message. If people chose to take it personally, that is on them.

I am still not exactly sure what your "perspective" really is or how it is that it supposedly triggers something in me. I get that you think large families are best. But I'm not sure why and I have not seen you really respond to any of my suggestions as to why they are not a good thing. As I have said before, if we were not facing a crisis of overpopulation, I would be just fine with large families. I have zero issue with the family size choices people make aside from the ecological difficulties that ensue.

Elizabeth, when suggesting that people should act with a modicum of civility, I would suggest you take a good look in the mirror. What we put out into the universe generally comes back at us...

[deleted account]

Elizabeth firstly if somebody is sending you abusive pm's take it to the moderators of the community it is breaking no thumps and will be sorted out for you...

Secondly, I have never and will never send an abusive pm to anyone, I haven't been deliberately offensive to you or anyone on this thread and when you have found my posts offensive I have explained why I have said what I have said (such as the quote you cherry picked, which missed the explanation off the beginning). I haven't been deliberately nasty or rude unlike you who has repeatedly flamed this post with insulting and nasty, spiteful posts.

I Doubt johnny or sapphire have either though, IF they have pm'd you read them, I would suspect it would only be information NOT abuse!

Thirdly, let me say again I NEVER said you have a huge family, in fact if you'd read my last post I clarify IMO 4 is a mid sized family...which means it isn't small or large it is in the middle! But I also AGREE with you family size is subjective to individual people! It looks as though you are the one who isn't reading our posts!

Fourthly, you continue to cherry pick from our posts to try and make us look stupid or mean spirited, you have ignored the fact I have said more than once I'd love more than 2 children and am in fact part of a thriving LARGE family so I'm hardly berating people who choose to have large families, unlike you have done with people who choose to have smaller families!

Finally let me repeat myself AGAIN..."If you want people to listen to what you have to say you need to learn to not be so hostile against the opposing side, if you don't, all you succeed in is getting people's hackles up and instead of seeing any information you may have they just see the attacks and the negatives and then they feel the need to defend their choices/ lives. You don't help anything by being rude, you get far more with sugar than vinegar!"

[deleted account]

Quick message back to you Elizabeth: I sincerely feel sorry and sad for you. You have failed to acknowledge other parenting perspectives in regard to this orignal thread- the number of kids for each family. You have failed to respond to direct inquiries. I feel sad that you cannot show the human trait of acceptance towards other mothers that are different than you. I am triggered by absolutely nothing you stated, but I suspect your defense mechanisms by blatent ignoring, circular reasoning, and high-fiving large families out there reinforces your own insecurities.

Actually, I wish you all the best for you to gain and learn new perspectives in life.

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