i fell like i may just lose it.. i have a 5 yr old boy and a 2 yr old boy. they will not listen to a word i say lately. my 2 yr old is a copycat of his older bro and whatever he does , he does the same. so when my 5yr old(eli) disobeys me , 2 yr old(finne)gets in on the action.. i punish eli by time outs a minute per his age.. it doesnt seem to be doing any good. he talks back right or says something wise the instant he is let out of time out. i try not to blow up,i calmly seperate them over and over and over and all they do is wrestle and make each other cry every minute of every day. Eli is not scared of punishment . he is defiant and just keeps on pushing buttons. the same goes for finne. i put him in time out for 2 mins. what am i doing wrong? are there any other discipline tricks im missing here? i dont believe in spankings. i am all ears and willing to try anything. i even sit my older son down to try and talk to him about how mommy is going nuts and i need him to cooperate but he then sticks his toungue out at me and calls me an evil name and runs away.. i cannot take this anymore. i do not want a preschooler ruling out what my day is going to be like... its up to me.. the MOM. thanks, mom in need

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User - posted on 01/06/2009

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Hi bethany. I'm responding to the comments you made about bringing faith into your family. My biggest question is what do you believe? Do you believe in God and that he sent his son Jesus sto die for your sins (Christianity), or are you searching? I have a very biased answer to this because I am a strongly following Christian and we are bringing our girls up that way. My concern for you would be that it might get confusing for your boys, especially Eli, if you start introducing all these different ideas to him (by taking him to different churches, temples, etc.). My advice would be to seek out what you trully believe. Pray... ask God to open your eyes to what He wants to teach you. If you are honest and sincere, I completely believe that He will show you the way. I'm thinking of you during this time:-)

Torie - posted on 01/01/2009

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I could have wrote that. I have a 5 yo and a 2yo as well and they are always fighting over every little thing. It's very annoying!! We just use time out and honestly, half the time it's for me. I make the older one go to his room and tell him not to come out I come in and talk to him (so there is no coming out and asking to come out every 10 seconds) and the younger one I put in his room in time out as well. I lock the door or put up the baby gate so he'll stay in there and to keep him safe. I'll go outside and take a deep breath, loading the dishwasher real quick, throw in a load of laundry, etc. I'll do what I need to do and then I'll go talk with the older one about how he needs to be good to show little brother how to be good. I try not to talk too much, a couple sentences at most, so he doesn't feel overwhelmed with what I'm trying to say.



Good luck to you, it's rough!



-T

www.ModernMommas.com

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Paulette - posted on 01/07/2009

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Hi, I read you last post about Eli kicking Fin in the cheek and how you implimented the time out on the naughty spot. First let me say, it was very good that you disciplined him. I understand that his screaming is ear piercing too. When you sat with him and held him, how was that effective really? What was his punishment for kicking his brother and swearing at you? What he got was your company and someone to talk to him and entertain him. I really feel for you...it drives me crazy when my son screams but he now knows that I will follow through with my time outs and his screams are ineffective and sometimes still tries it too. If you can get in a few time outs that are tough to handle (kicking, screaming, hitting, swearing and multiple times of putting him back on the spot)  under your history/belt. It will turn around...Eli will see that you mean business and when you put him in the naughty spot, after that he will not need you to repeatedly place him back on the spot. His yelling and etc., my suggesting is to use ear plugs if needed initially. But my best advise is to read JO FROST'S books (Supernanny). They should be available at the library. I read some of her books and her naughty spot technique really does work. My son is almost 7 and he is mildly autistic with speech delay and I work with a behavioralist too, they do not believe nor do I in spanking. Neither does Jo Frost, that is why I like her techniques. As far as religion goes, I think it is great you want you boys to follow their heart but, I think you need to be the one to pray for guidence and know what you believe in. They need you to lead them by example. Then teach them what you want them to know in life and religion. At the age they are now they can not make an informed opinion, but you can. When they are like 12 I would then leave the floor open as to what direction they want to go in as religion goes. These are my suggestions and you know your family best and I hope all the best for you and yours. Take care.

User - posted on 01/07/2009

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my children used to do the very same thing the only i found that worked was asking them to get their best toy. when they brought it i would tell them they had to be nice and listen to me so they could earn them back. you really have to stick at it. it takes a while and every time you think they need another toy taking away take it. it really worked for me

User - posted on 01/07/2009

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I have experienced this with my own children. I found that my oldest was just looking for sometime to be with me so when I had to do things around the house I would ask him to help me out and reward him with words... Thanks so much for helping me you are such a good helper. I would make time with just him to read together or work on a project, the more I did this the more I started to see the behaviour in him change ( for the good). Most of all you need to keep in mind they will go through many phases but as along as your child knows you are in control of their enviroment they will get through it. It is never wrong to say no to a child.

User - posted on 01/07/2009

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I have experienced this with my own children. I found that my oldest was just looking for sometime to be with me so when I had to do things around the house I would ask him to help me out and reward him with words... Thanks so much for helping me you are such a good helper. I would make time with just him to read together or work on a project, the more I did this the more I started to see the behaviour in him change ( for the good). Most of all you need to keep in mind they will go through many phases but as along as your child knows you are in control of their enviroment they will get through it. It is never wrong to say no to a child.

Eva - posted on 01/07/2009

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Wow...alot of advice.  My nutshell: married 13 yrs, 2 kids (son is 12, daughter is 10), was a working mom until about 2yrs ago.  I felt, the older the kids got, the more activities they were involved in...dad works 12hrs+ a day so, I wanted them to have more stability at home as they headed into their teens.  Frequent dinners at home, homework all together with no distractions and taking with them about their day.  I always know where they are...they don't have tvs in their room...they don't have cell phones...I still filter freinds or at least discuss their friendships so they can better deal with social situations.  We are active with sports and they play outside quite often.  When I worked...that was my time, but when I got home...they had my full attention.  I see many adults wanting to be friends with their kids and conforming to a society that looks down on morals and respect.  Make the kids happy by buying their love...broken homes...spoiling;  it just doesn't work.  Kids need stability...they need adult supervision.  That means making desicions for them until they are old enough to make their own and deal with their own consequences...like 18, 19, 20.  That what grown ups are supposed to do...you do and make your life a life your kids can learn from.  Discipline:  I believe in spanking...not abuse.  There is a huge difference between a pop on the butt and sending a child across the room with a wallop.  I honestly didn't have to spank that often.  I didn't believe in timeouts...that's just time for them to come up with another way to get to you.  Discipline them, talk with them and move on...life is too short to drag that with you.  To me, timeouts are like grudges.  You can't give into tantrums...you can't change your mind too often.  Kids are smart and pick up on that stuff.  You mentioned the younger copies the older...who is the older copying?  Bad language...bad behavior, they are coming from somewhere and you need to find out from where and remove that.  When mine were younger:  if a tantrum was started in a store or whatnot...we left, they got a pop in the butt in the car and I didn't take them to the store until he or she would behave.  It only took maybe 3 or 4 times.  It's harder and inconvienient, but it worked for me.  If that meant we went without milk for awhile, well I would let them know that.  Talk with the kids...don't belittle them.  I've always been able to take my kids anywhere.  Folks are aways asking me...how come they are so well behaved?  And all I can say is that I am strict.  I'm no catholic school nun/teacher and I can goof around with them whenever.  But that is it.  They know right from wrong...yes/no ma'am and yes/no sir is a must to adults (not me...I'm their mom)...MANNERS (some adults out there can certainly use a refresh)...they hear kids and adults curse all the time, it's american slang, but they choose not to use them, they usually can't believe that other parents let their kids talk like that.  I consider myself a religious person.  I believe in God, but we love to sleep in and don't go to church.  Some of the worst behaved kids I've seen go to church, so I choose not to expose mine to that.  The few times we have went, it was too distracting anyways with those disrespectful people.  When my kids ask, I simply tell them that I pray at home or I just answer any questions they have by looking in the Bible as well.  Toddler years are tough and you have to stand firm otherwise it'll be worse when they are teenagers...I see it all the time.  We believe in God, Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny...my son might go along with it so my daughter can hold on a little longer ;) and I thank him for it.  Anyways, I've rambled on longer than I expected, so I apologize for that.  Be strong and love those kids and shelter them....I have no regrets :)

Diane - posted on 01/07/2009

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One other thing I had to do, in reading the other posts, was with my son who has mild ADD.  He has limitations in his behavior that I had to accept.  Transition is very hard for him, and he needs at least a 5 minute warning whenever we change the activity he is involved in.  He used to scream and fight whenever we had to go somewhere or leave what he was doing.  And I've noticed that if I tell him Hunter in 5 minutes we are..... then he has time to adjust and is much better behaved with listening.  Also when he was 5 we had to go to a counselor just because we were fighting all the time and it seemed like it would never get better, all our relationship was, was fighting and yelling.  And he got me to see that I was trying too hard to have a perfect 5 year old. He told me a perfect 5 year old, gets upset, dirty, doesn't always behave.  And while you have to deal with the behavior, if I lowered my expectations of him being perfect then our time would be much better.  A great place to look up online too is Apple Parenting.  It was a free parenting course I took, and it was with other parents and a great help.  In addition one night a week I had a guaranteed break with other adults to talk about issues.

Diane - posted on 01/07/2009

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One other thing I had to do, in reading the other posts, was with my son who has mild ADD.  He has limitations in his behavior that I had to accept.  Transition is very hard for him, and he needs at least a 5 minute warning whenever we change the activity he is involved in.  He used to scream and fight whenever we had to go somewhere or leave what he was doing.  And I've noticed that if I tell him Hunter in 5 minutes we are..... then he has time to adjust and is much better behaved with listening.  Also when he was 5 we had to go to a counselor just because we were fighting all the time and it seemed like it would never get better, all our relationship was, was fighting and yelling.  And he got me to see that I was trying too hard to have a perfect 5 year old. He told me a perfect 5 year old, gets upset, dirty, doesn't always behave.  And while you have to deal with the behavior, if I lowered my expectations of him being perfect then our time would be much better.  A great place to look up online too is Apple Parenting.  It was a free parenting course I took, and it was with other parents and a great help.  In addition one night a week I had a guaranteed break with other adults to talk about issues.

User - posted on 01/06/2009

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I have a 5 year old boy and a 4 year old boy.  The past few months have been the same here.  The older one would do something that needed scolding and while we were scolding him, the younger one would do the same thing just for fun!  It was so frustrating.  However, we are from Wisconsin and St. Nick comes here on Dec. 5th and leaves little things in their stockings.  However, this year St. Nick did not come for them (he only left a big rawhide bone for our dog).  The kids have shaped up so much it isn't even funny.  Now, don't get me wrong, they are still boys - they are still brothers - and they still like to fight, however, they are much more considerate to everyone in the household.  Santa came like he was supposed to - and it is now after Christmas and they have still kept on being as good as a 4 and 5 year old boy could be.  :)  Hope this helps...



 

[deleted account]

you did everything fine.he learned you were in control (by holding him and siting by him you made him relize he cant always do whatever he wants...)now it just takes time for them to finaly relize its useless to keep trying and things go way better if he didnt act out in the first place.(the only thing i would think about changing is a longer time out if the one isnt effective enough)hang in there your a wonderful mom and it shows.



also many churches will send someone to get you and your family.they would be thrilled to do so.and may even have a bus route.

Bethany - posted on 01/04/2009

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was supposed to go to church today.. found a great one about 1/2 mile from our house!! but unfortunately, had NO ride!!
anyway. this a.m. , i was being very nice to eli , asking him about his first night in his new bed and so on. it seemed like everything was going great. i was out in the dining room picking up . i could hear the boys playing together very nicely in their bedroom. when all of a sudden i hear Finnegan start screaming...he comes out pointing to to his cheek. i knew right away what had happened. instead of yelling across the room, i simply asked Eli to "come here " so he could explain to me what had happened. he nonchalantly says he kicked him... i told him it was time for the naughty spot. which is when he said "no way" and ran away from me , cussing and crying . i grabbed his hand and took him there. i had to sit right next to him so he wouldnt try to keep escaping. ( dont know if this was the wrong thing to do, but otherwise i would of had to keep carrying back there prob 20x's in 5 mins. ) he was pulling such a fit , i cant stand listening to. i had to cross his arms over his chest to keep him from hitting me and held him there till he chilled out... i started to ask him off of the subject questions to get his mind off of the fit.. he worked. we started about school and his birthday and i pulled some humor in with it , too. i dont know if this is all wrong or what not. but it went over very smoothly and he has been fine ever since. he gave his bro a big kiss and has been very helpful to him..
lets hope the rest of the day goes over this smoothly....

[deleted account]

I work with abused children aged between 3 and 6 yrs old...they often have behaviour problems....we use the 1,2,3 magic principles...so I recommend you check it out also..you clearly love your children and want to do your best..parenting is hard! My boys are 3 (nearly 4) and 19 months and are a handful with similar problems to what you are experiencing...we are all in the same boat..don't ever feel that you are a bad mum or the only one going through it...keep your chin up and try to find some "you" time to relax and refresh!

[deleted account]

Wanting to give them freedom to make their own choices is a good thing... but they are still too young for that. As someone else said, just give them two options. (You can have this or that. Anything else is not an option) Do that frequently, especially with stuff that doesn't matter and they will feel more in control, and fight less about stuff that is important to you.

BUT as for church... children learn by example and they need to see that you believe it too. They are still too young for this choice too, but their opinion about the children's programs, etc. at the church should be heard as you choose a place for your family to worship. And yes, I think it would be an extremely powerful and important move in helping your family. Having God at the center of your marriage, family, and home will help you all to focus and become more 'centered' in all of the right ways. A Bible study or women's ministries group can give you support and more resources to help you get through those tough days.

And one more thing... I love your honesty! :-) I have been there with you (have 4 young boys at home) and it really is a day-to-day thing. Just remember on the tough days, that tomorrow is a new day and a chance to do better. You are NOT alone in your feelings either. We all are just trying to do the best we can.

[deleted account]

i believe in the Bible 100 %.it lines up with history and prophecies and is the longest lasting book around.ive found that babtist has been the closest to what i believe.and i experience a relationship with my savior daily,this is why i believe this way it is real to me.and in the lives of the people i know.i also believe that there are many truths to other "religions" and all it takes is accepting Christ as your Lord and Savoir and turning from sin.religion does not save you and it shouldnt be something you just do for a routine it.beliving in God should be a heart felt thing.not just an o i believe but it does nothing to change me.....



you realy could use some mommy time that would help as far as patience go.and you dont neccisarily have to punish everything.make sure it is worth punishing and you have a good reason for it.sometimes things are accidents and sometimes the motive behind things are misuderstood.your consistency is important when there is something that is never acceptable.and let them be hyper(preferably outside)when it is time to be hyper.there is a time for everything and it is a valuable thing to teach them.you dont have to be a drill sargent just dont ok unquenstionable bad behavoir.

Apryl - posted on 01/02/2009

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When my four year old son talks back, I take away his toys, or TV or whatever is favorite thing is at the time and make him watch me take it away so he is aware that his actions have actual consequences and he knows that I am serious and mean business. He also knows that when I start counting to 3 he's going to get something taken away if he doesn't start to listen and that's his "warning" that his behavior needs to change. Once he decides he has had enough of acting out, he has to apologize and explain to me in his own words why he is apologizing so he understands why that behavior is not ok. It's a daily struggle of course, but he's 4! ;-)

Veronica - posted on 01/02/2009

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I have heard very positive things about workshop and book "positive discipline."

Laura - posted on 01/02/2009

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Consistency with "threats" and lots of positive reinforcement for good behavior. I use a sticker chart for completion of things and listening. Also, I meet pretty frequently with Matthew's school to see what's happening there.

User - posted on 01/02/2009

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for the church question, I think that they are pretty young to pick one for themselves...I would continue to attend your own church or find one that you are comfortable with that has Sunday school during the service for the kids..(because if you arent comfortable going, your children will pick up on that) I grew up in the united church.,.at 13 yrs made the decision to be confirmed in that church.. when my son gets a little older, he will attend the same church until he''s old enough to decide for himself..

Lindsey - posted on 01/02/2009

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Hi Bethany!

I have read some of the books the ladies are suggesting and they are all good books. I think my favorite for the early childhood stage is Love & Logic, Magice for Early Childhood. 1-2-3 Magic is also good. I'm not sure it is as good as the Love & Logic concept.

The main idea is to share control with your kids through controlled chioces!!! Give them lots of choices. Ex: Would you like milk or juice? Would you like to go to be now or in 5 minutes? Would you like to read 2 books or 3? You can have soooo much fun giving your kids choices with 2 choices involved that you are completely okay with whatever one they pick! Sharing the control like this, makes it easier to get their cooperate! When it is time for you to make the choice, you make it. Any complaining, you just say, "Hey, haven't I given you lots of choices today?? This one is mine to make!" My kids go along with it.

With the fighting! Here is the book idea! "I CHARGE $1 for every minute of fighting!" Now...how are they going to pay you?? Hmmm...a favorite toy? Loss of an outting? A chore?? You ask them? "How are YOU going to pay ME?" Let them try to think of some ideas.

The whole goal of the book is to teach your kids to make choices and to learn from the consequences! It is a great book. Barnes & Noble carries it.

Laura - posted on 01/02/2009

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Wow, that sounds alot like my two boys!! The one thing that i've found that works is that if you say youre going to punish them a certain was (take a toy away, not give them a treat, not let them play outside ect.) stick to your word...its so easy to give in, sometimes it seems easier, but after a few times, they realize youre not joking, and they might think twice the next time they misbehave. Good luck...dont worry, your not the only mom who feels this way!!!

Charo - posted on 01/02/2009

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"my goodness... i wanted to add that i do have a partner, but we have turned into " roomates"
I found this words on one of your posts and not a word from any responses. It seem that you need help not just with your children but with your partner as well. And what about yourself? Are you taking care of yourself? Are you and your husband taking time for each other? It looks like you are going through a lot as a mother and women and you need some help. A family and a couple's therapist could be very useful at this point. In one of the responses it was suggested that you check with your insurance company to find what specialist the will cover, or check with your local family care center. I would strongly recommend that you find professional assistance, starting with your marital situation. You don't need to be alone on parenting your children, and partnerless in your marriage.

Good luck.

Anna - posted on 01/01/2009

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Just a thought, but I have been (since my daughter was old enough to understand) been using the words "That's not a choice!" At 6, kids are more independent and want to make their OWN decisions, and also at 6, theyre not always the right ones. Giving him 2 (MAYBE 3) options of how HE can handle the situation (or make it better) might help. When my (fairly well behaved) nearly 3 year old starts acting up, all I usually need to do is sternly say "Gracie, no thank you! That is NOT a choice!" and then I follow with "you can do ______ or ______, and THOSE are your choices." Seems to work pretty well for me, hope it does for you too. But the other moms are right in the consistency aspect. IT IS KEY! :)

Nicole - posted on 01/01/2009

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Its funny that you posted this as i was posting. I has chosen to follow christanity. i have the same way of thinking as you about not wanting to chose a religion for my kids. but my three younger kids love going to the youth ministry when we are able to attend church. they love learning about god. Mabye you should find a wonens bible study to attend. I have done this myself and I have recieved a wonderful support group and friends that have and continue to help me as i become fustrated with a lot of things in my life. Try it. it can't hurt.

Nicole - posted on 01/01/2009

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you poor girl. I just want to say that you are loved by those around you and by those you haven't even meet yet. just keep on "truckin" Believe me I understand that it is hard to stay calm. i have 5 kids and took in another. they are very close in age, but you need to remember that you are not super mom you are human. We all feel like we have to do it all. you are doing the best you can.When you feel that fustration build up stop and breath. take a few DEEP breaths calm yourself and then go in and do your thing. It will work, just stay consistant. I know its hard and you feel like you failed, but you haven't! you are a great mom and I have faith that you will get your boys to behave the way I know they can. I strongly feel that god gives us the greatest gift in the world of children. He wouldn't do this if we didn't have the strenght to teach them. He knows our ability better than we do. just keep telling yourself " I am a good mom and I can do this." I have faith in you.

Bethany - posted on 01/01/2009

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today went over pretty well for the most part. it was Eli's 5 yr birthday. so we were all pretty excited. and mommys really excited because both of the boys are over their grammies ( they call her mimi) for the night. well atleast Eli is for sure. finnegan on the other hand is still nursing and sometimes needs to at night and wont end up sleeping the whole night and then i get a lovely wake up call at 2 am. anyway.
so things were good . i told my ma about how im trying to stick to a new routine around the home and that id like her to try and implement into her daily routines at her home while shes got the boys, now , mimi's quite the spoiler so im hoping she'll atleast try to stick with it!!
well, i wanted to add something here. please feel free to respond with ANY advice whatsoever. i am a very open-minded person. i would like to have some spiritual outlook for me and my family ( the boys and husband). i think that especially , for my oldest, that if he had some faith, something for him to help him realize how special life is, to keep his head up and what not, that it would be great for him. and i most definitely have been pondering this issue for YEARS now. now, i was baptized christian and dont want to chose a religion for my kids . i want them to chose for themselves. so i was thinking that maybe i should look around ( internet, phone book, drive-bys) and take all of us to each and every church, temple i can find in our area on their days of worship. and see which one they take a liking to. now eli is 5. finn is 2. im sure it wont make too much a difference for my 2 yr old.. right? but for Eli, i think he may enjoy this activity. ive heard of a few good churches down the street from where i live . and a couple buddhist temples in some nearby towns.. now , has anyone ever tried this with their kids or have any ideas or advice or know of any kid-friendly churches/temples/......
we need this... it would feel really good to see a positive change in all of us with a blooming spiritual side caressing our demons...
thanks to ALL for all of you help

Amanda - posted on 01/01/2009

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Stay strong and don't let one "bad" day destroy your will to fight! Rome wasn't built in a day and nor will changing your childrens behaviours! Children have an amazing ability to challenge you and your sanity... and this is a great example of it! When you change the "rules" and the way you deal with the childrens behaviours, they will revolt and try push the boundries. Children thrive within boundries, and at first they WILL push you to see how far you will bend. Just stick to your guns! There'll be somedays that you have to put yourself into time out... just for a cooling off period where you can collect your thoughts, shed a tear or 2 (don't let the kids see you do that, or else they'll think they've won!) and regain some strength! When my children fight over a toy, I time out the toy .. yes, we have had screaming and a tantrum or 2, but they soon learn that fighting over a toy is a worthless use of energy, because nobody will win! I have 5 children, all close in age (8, 7, 6, 4 and 20 months)... my son who is 4 is really difficult to deal with! I have taken him to the doctors to get help and they referred us to the hospital and a specialist in behaviour issues (she says she believes he may have ADHD, but can't diagnose him completely until he is at school full time)... she's suggested working on one behaviour at a time. She said that trying to change too many things at once in young children can become confusing and difficult for children to succeed at... makes sense really! My 20 month old is the copycat and will do ANYTHING that his big brother does.... which is difficult! But that can be used to your benefit as well - when the leader does something good, loads of praise... and the follower tries it as well... more praise! 2 birds with one stone and all that! Lol!



I wish you all the luck in the world! Remember that you have a lot of mums here that are behind you and cheering you on!!!

Seana - posted on 01/01/2009

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Here is another thought - tell them if they cannot or will not share that toy will become yours. Also, just a thought - are they asking nicely if they can play with the other ones toy? If not, here is a good time to teach them the proper way to ask and how to share. Also, kids need to learn that they do not have the right to force someone to share. There are many lessons that we need to learn in life and it can be overwhelming at times but always stay strong and there will come a time when it will be easier. And never forget that you are the parent, if your child is calling you names - wash his mouth out with soap, you may have to do it several times but he will get tired of the nasty taste and decide it is easier for him not to talk that way. When you say No make it firm with no option, not, " Please don't." Keep saying No and do not give in at all. Also, if they are screaming at you, pop them on the mouth, not hard, but it will shock them. I firmly believe if the mouth is being offensive punish that part, it is more effective and they will remember to think before they open their mouth.

Jenni - posted on 01/01/2009

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aww ... Honey, its all good. First, remember that kids are kids and it is important to pick your battles. At their ages you do have to intervene more than when they are older. They have to learn that they aren't to hit, etc. But, if they are just being silly and loud try to let them be and enjoy the fact that they are being kids. Although, sometimes a warning about someone getting hurt if they aren't careful can be warranted!

Don't be discouraged, their dad is right ... it is going to take time. I have felt the way you felt last night, really I have. I sometimes still get disappointed in my kids choices, but they are really good kids. There is a verse in the bible that says, "Train up your child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not turn from it." Proverbs 22:6. I think some key words here are the way he should go. God did not make all of us to be the same. My oldest, who is very strong-willed needed to learn how to direct that part of her in a positive way. She is a natural-born leader ... so I had to teach her how to lead appropriately. My middle child struggles with her self-esteem ... so I have had to help her learn to appreciate her gifts and share them with others, even when its hard. (That is a frustrating one for me as she is quite talented artistically and musically). My youngest is the laziest child ever! (lol) ... he's 15, still working on that one! Those are just one aspect of each of my kids that we as parents view as negative. I try to teach them that they shouldn't place themselves in a "category or box" and decide that is where they belong. We, as human beings, are not one dimensional.

You don't have to put them in a time-out every time. Sometimes, when my kids were fighting over toys, I put the toys in a time-out. Seriously, I would take the toys that were being fought over and put them on top of the fridge where they could see them and tell them that they could not have them back for a period of time. Yes, there were some days that my fridge was quite full! My kids were testing me to see if I was serious. I have also struggled with yelling, but truthfully they listened better when I calmly gave the consequences and followed through.

Look, you are obviously a loving mom, or you wouldn't have reached out for some support and advice. You do need to take some time for you too. Find ways to recharge yourself. A good massage can do wonders!

Bethany - posted on 01/01/2009

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once again. this is amazing. i have so much great advice.. i really dont know which ideas to stick with , try, throw out the window and so on.. yesterday evening was one of " those days". the boys were horrible.. they taunted each other with toys each one wanted from the other, my oldest kept swearing, i did so good the day before with the most important factor - consistency- and when i realized last night i had failed... it became hard to pick myself back up again. i didnt put them in time-out for every misbehaved behavoir... i was yelling again( instead of being so very calm the day before i couldnt even believe it was ME... yet my husband had to keep reminding to "keep calm honey, keep calm... remember"), i was falling apart . i was defeated. only one day of doing what i thought , was an awesome improved job of my part.. Daddy told me not to expect to get it all in one day and not to feel like i failed. that it takes time to change ways ive been doing things for 5 yrs now, into one day and so on... so i felt better after talking to him about it...
So anyway. i think it all comes down to laziness with me... i dont want to get up everytime they upset me and do something thats going to make them freak out and have them screaming. i could go on with this one. its also selfish of me not to set them straight. as i understand they need and thrive off of routine and discipline. they may not know it yet, nor I. but IN THE END.. IT IS AALLLLL WORTH IT . Right? please tell me its -right- cuz right now im hanging my head in my hands and ready to cry because both boys are driving me nuts ... finne wants "booby", eli is saying "ma..mom.." over and over cuz he wants to go outside...
when will it end... never?
time to go intervene...

Jenni - posted on 12/31/2008

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Wow, that was a lot to read. I guess I agree with some and not so much with others. But, it sounds like you have a handle on how you want to handle it Bethany! I just thought I would add a couple of ideas that were helpful when my kids were younger. (I have 3 who are 20, 18 and 15).

Most children in our society are over-stimulated and have too much stuff! One thing you can do to help that is to pack away some toys and rotate different ones out periodically. Kids these days tend to have so many toys that they don't know where all the parts are, don't feel interested in what is in plain sight, or just feel bored with what they always play with. If you can organize the toys this way, old toys can feel new again. Plus, it is easier to clean up and keep track of all the parts.

My youngest could make anything into a game, so for him I had his time-outs in the corner. It worked out well, because even if we were in a store ... I could remind him that even stores had corners. My oldest was very strong willed and would definitely push the limits. Consistency was definitely the key. One time as I sent her up to her room, she stomped her feet up the stairs yelling that I couldn't make her go to her room. (I kind of had a hard time not laughing out loud!). Whatever it is that you determine to be a consequence, if you warn the child of that ... you have to follow through. So don't say it if you aren't willing to follow through. I found with her that taking toys or activities away was the best way. One time I told her she couldn't go to a classmates birthday party, she had to call and apologize to the little girl and still give her the present. (She was 8). It made an impact.

Also, be careful about food rewards. It can be a life-long damaging thing to make food a reward.

Well, that is my 2 cents worth. I don't know if you are someone who had faith as part of your life, but I could not have gotten through all of it without God. :)

Seana - posted on 12/31/2008

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The word no is also a very powerful word when used. A parent should never ask their child to behave, they should tell them. Establish yourself as the authority in your house and what behavior you will not accept and the consequences for those behaviors. I have sat my daughter down and had her repeat after me that I am the parent and that she is the child. I do not give her a choice in the situation - I AM the ADULT.

Tiffany - posted on 12/31/2008

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I just finished reading a very positive book that has already helped me a lot. It's called How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk. It uses less punishment and more helping your child identify their feelings to help them feel heard, using praise even for the few times they do behave and helping them come up with solutions to problems rather than coming in, deciding whose to blame and fixing the situation.

I even was able to put it to use with my 23 year old son who was yelling "NO!" for what appeared to be no reason and about to throw a tantrum. I tried what the book suggested, and said Henry's angry, but that didn't work, so I said "Henry says NO!" and it seemed to work. He looked at me for a second and then put a smile on his face and bounced out of the room. I'm still getting used to it. I've got a 4 year old and 23 mo old twins, so its easy to loose my cool. Parenting is so emotional and its hard to remain calm, but it is definitely making life more enjoyable. I just checked it out at the library, but I liked it so much I might buy it to have it available.

Kathy - posted on 12/31/2008

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Get the book Parenting with Love and Logic by Fay and Cline or Kline. It will save your life!! I recommend buying your own copy so you can write in it, but you can certainly get a copy from the library. They also have one for the teenage years that's awesome, but you need to start now!

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you and him have to find a common ground among the disagreement.or it will contninue to be kaos...therapy realy does help if you can do it if not you and him need to sit down and right out rules to go by that you both agree on and want give into.pick your fights wisley be willing to give him a rule or to in exchange for your ideas.remeber the saying united we stand divided we fall...

Laurie - posted on 12/31/2008

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i am a mother of 2 but watch many boys. when it comes to boys its hard. they need to feel special but they dont get that reward unless they are good give them a chart. 1st one with 10 stickers get to choose whats for dinner ect. also if they push shove curse take something awya. something they really love keep it in eye sight but out of reach. believe me they will want to earn it back if it is out of sight its out of mind so make sur ethey can see it

Stephanie - posted on 12/31/2008

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You are doing what I did as well. I made it through, and i have a 19 yr old, 16 yr old and 15 yr old twins. ALL boys! One possible suggestion that worked for me, was in addition to the discipline, maybe add a treat for the days they ARE good. Maybe something like stickers? Something that they both may like, especially the oldest. Something both may have, and enjoy. Then the youngest one will enjoy the fact that he is able to earn the same thing the oldest one has as well.

Just a suggestion.. it worked many years for me! LOL

Seana - posted on 12/31/2008

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It must be nice if you can afford to pay your children to be good. I despise nothing more than bribing children and rewarding children for doing what they are supposed to be doing anyways with goods is nothing more than bribery. When they grow up are they going to expect reward charts from their teachers and bosses for doing what they are supposed to?

Mary - posted on 12/31/2008

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I have a six year old daughter that laughs at every punishment that is thrown at her, except... taking her toys away. On several occassions, she has had nothing but a bed in her room because of her behavior. When she starts to behave good again, I give her back a toy, one at a time. It seems to really get the point across to her that I mean business.

Now she is at the point where we are doing chores and she is earning commission for those chores. Whenever she talks back, doesn't listen or whines without stop, I put a mark on her board to take away her hard earned money. She doesn't like that at all because she is saving to buy some Hanna Montanna stuff.

The key to any of this is consistency with everyone in the home. If they don't listen to you even just once, take a toy away (if that is his vice) and continue to do so.

We are now having to do this with my daughter's clothes. She says none of them fit and they all give her wedgies. Pretty soon, she will have no clothes left to wear to school and will hopefully begin to appreciate what she does have.

User - posted on 12/31/2008

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I would suggest going to see a therapist as a family for help with your children's behavior. That way it gets both you and your partner on the same boat. Or if you still want different boats it forces you to talk about it the reasons why and come up with a plan together. Consistency is the key. Consistency within yourself, himself, and between the two of you.



I would call your insurance company and ask for referrals to local child and adolescent therapists. When you call to schedule ask for a therapist that works well with behavior disorders (not that I think your children are disordered, that is just what they call the type of help your family needs). If you don't have private insurance, call your local community health center and ask for the same thing.



I can tell you are very eager to work on this, but unfortunately you won't get very far alone. I'd enlist the help of a professional to help you approach your partner with ideas and plans so that your children know exactly what to expect with both good and not so good behaviors.

Bethany - posted on 12/31/2008

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my goodness... i wanted to add that i do have a partner, but we have turned into " roomates who live together and/but take care of the same kids"... its become really sad. due to stress, being tired and he works sooooo much... it seems to be like im the only one who brings up our boys...we hardly talk, or do anything together.
and the biggest trouble we share are our discipline ideas... he is way more strict than i am , and we are never on the same boat. i believe he expects too much from our 5 yr old and i think Eli gets confused when daddy punishes him for things he doesnt even understand what hes done wrong for, or when daddy explains things in " big people terms"... its hard and confuses the children i would imagine...
id think that if we were on the same page a lil more, itd prove to work more miracle w the boys? or is it good for mommy and daddy to be different when it comes to how they discipline= it builds up mommys and daddys differences ie. there personalities, mommy is one way, dad the other...??? does this make sense... i need some coffee...

Kris - posted on 12/30/2008

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Bethany,



I hope that all of this advice helps. This is my first time ever posting so I hope that this works. I have a daughter with a severe epilepsy syndrome and her meds have made her have ADHD as well. I tried charts, taking things away, spanking (I don't believe in it either but I tried it). I have learned to calm down my expetations. I decided what things she could NOT DO. The rest of the stuff I had to let go of. Then both of us aren't yelling and getting upset all the time. I don't like the fact that her room is a mess all the time but I have come to the realization that it isn't worth the fight. So my best advice is decide what is important to you and your family and let the rest go.



My worst day with my daughter she took my sons dump truck filled it with the flour bin from my kitchen (25 pds) then dumped 5 milk cartons full of water in them in to the flour. She dumped the paste mixture all over my kitchen floor the night before a big family party at my house. After getting mad and starting to clean the paste off my floor my husband sent her upstairs to wash up. She left the water running in the bathroom with the soap bottle turned down in the sink. We were so busy cleaning up the kitchen that we didn't notice until the ceiling started to come down will all the water and bubbles above us.



Hang in there I understand.

Kris

Rena - posted on 12/30/2008

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Hi Bethany. I also have 2 boys who are 5 and 2! they are very energetic and sometimes seems as if all they do is fight with each other and make me crazy! A few months ago, as a desperate attempt, I started a new system that has brought me a lot of peace! We made a giant stoplight on posterboard and put velcro in each color. We made little people cutouts and attached velcro to the back of those. Green= good behavior, and they were rewarded every day that they remained on green, yellow = is a warning that their behavior must stop, and red = unacceptable behavior and they would lose a priveledge for the entire day. I got a big bag of pinata filler and let them pick a prze from that. It has worked very well for us. You can also use a reward ladder, which we have also done along with the stoplight. I drew a ladder and numbered the rungs. Each day of good behavior and some little chores, they climbed the ladder. When they reached the top, we made a very big deal about it and they were rewarded with a trip to chuck e cheese, which was the reward that they chose! I have seen a very big difference in my children and they are proud of themselves now! God luck to you!

User - posted on 12/30/2008

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P.S. I just all the wonderful responses! I am going to use them too. I meant exercise! It really works.

User - posted on 12/30/2008

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Hello Bethany, I am sure you have had a lot of good help. Can I suggest lots of exersize and structure? Try a new time out corner. My husband and I are taking a course called love and logic........check it out online........helps us a lot. good luck!

Misti - posted on 12/30/2008

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I would have to agree with Ruby!! Up until a few months ago, I was doing in home education on Parenting (children of all ages). The BEST thing possible is to find something that they do well and praise them. The behavior chart is an awesome way to do that. And it works on pretty much any age group. But on the flip side of that they still need to be reminded that they have boundaries. It all does take some getting used to... but in the end it is definitely worth it!! One twist to the behavior board, I have seen one of my clients do it, is split the board in half and have Good behavior on one side and Bad behavior on the other. Explain to them that when they have good behavior they get a check, star, smiley face, etc... and if they have bad behavior they get the same on the other side... and at the end of the week if they have more good behavior marks than bad, they get a reward. Some topics are: using kind words to all family members- treating all family members with respect- talking out their feelings (good or bad/ happy or sad)- lending a helping hand without being asked. The idea with the split board is to show them their progress. My client that did this had great success with it (and her children were 5 and 3)! I wish you all the best!! Have a Happy New Year!

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