It's not about different opinions...

Bethany - posted on 03/18/2009 ( 36 moms have responded )

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It's about being kind and showing respect. People aren't complaining that others voice a different opinion- they are upset because of the way some people state their opinions as facts and insinuate (or say outright) that the original poster is a bad mother.



You may feel that telling someone that "letting her child cry is child abuse" is just stating your opinion- but in fact- you have just accused that mom of being a child abuser! There are much gentler and more respectful ways to show that you prefer a different approach to sleep.



Please- show other moms the respect that you would ask for yourself. Please think about how you would feel if someone voiced their opposite opinion in the same manner to you.



Ultimately- if you don't have anything positive to contribute to the conversation why not simply move on to another discussion where your words can encourage and help?

MOST HELPFUL POSTS

Bethany - posted on 03/19/2009

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Emily- What you don't seem to realise is that you can tell someone that rearfacing is safer at 4 months WITHOUT hurting their feelings. You can send them a link to a website that explains that this is the LAW in some places and let them make their decision based on that. It's not your "job" to save the babies- and using harsh words and foul language is not going to encourage anyone to listen to you. There are women here from all over the world where rules are different and not everyone has been exposed to the same information.

Speaking personally, I have no problem sifting through the replies I get and "rolling my eyes" at the ones I may find silly- but to ask people to just sit there while someone says they are not a 24/7 mom is asking too much! I was devastated when someone accused me of that! She didn't know me! Just because I was trying to help my son sleep didn't mean I hadn't spent countless hours soothing him in the middle of the night! And just because I didn't know her didn't make her words any less hurtful!

I'm sorry that people have attacked your opinions and I have not personally seen any of your advice posts- but if they are anything like the ones you've posted here then I certainly understand why people are upset with you. There is nothing wrong with being against CIO- but honestly, there is nothing wrong with using it, either.

You're right that this is the Internet- but that doesn't make it a free-for-all. We're not whining and we're certainly not whining "all over the internet". We are discussing how we feel that this place is supposed to be a support site- maybe not a safe, happy bubble- but certainly a safe place free from criticism and ridicule.

And swearing with initials is still swearing.

Thanks to everyone for a great discussion...I guess, ultimately we are only accountable for ourselves and if everyone who said they agreed makes sure that their posts are respectful then that's at least 17 of us spreading kindness! Thanks again! :~D

Kate CP - posted on 03/18/2009

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Quoting Sarah:

You're right, it's not about different opinions, its about facts. If someone posts something that goes against what the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) says, it can be potentially dangerous. That's not opinion, that's fact. Yes, kindness and respect are important, but the welfare of children is more important, and I'm not going to tiptoe around anyone or walk on eggshells for fear that I may offend someone.


Nobody is asking you to "tip toe" around anything. We're just asking that you not be rude and use a little tact. Your point will come across better AND will be better recieved (and thus some one may actually listen to you) when you are polite. An example:



A woman asks whether or not she should feed her two month old baby honey. Some one says "Sure, go for it!" What is most likely to follow is "Are you stupid?! Don't feed a baby honey!" and that is not helpful or productive. A helpful and productive response would be "It is NOT safe for a child under the age of 2 to consume honey" and then maybe add a few links for more info. This way you have been helpful, informative, AND you have managed not to insult anyone. See? Much easier.



Then again, if you ENJOY calling people names or starting fights then I guess my method seems a bit silly. Insulting people or starting flame wars doesn't make you look smart or witty...it makes you look like an asshole.

Sarah - posted on 03/18/2009

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You're right, it's not about different opinions, its about facts. If someone posts something that goes against what the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) says, it can be potentially dangerous. That's not opinion, that's fact. Yes, kindness and respect are important, but the welfare of children is more important, and I'm not going to tiptoe around anyone or walk on eggshells for fear that I may offend someone.

Emily - posted on 03/18/2009

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I think everyone should stop instigating the drama. Hasnt there been enough posts about this lately? You may think you are helping, but you are really cultivating the drama by making these redundant posts over and over.
Disclaimer- Hannah, you need not reply to my resonse, haha.

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36 Comments

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~Jennifer - posted on 03/19/2009

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Quoting Lisa:



Quoting Kate:




Quoting Sarah:

You're right, it's not about different opinions, its about facts. If someone posts something that goes against what the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) says, it can be potentially dangerous. That's not opinion, that's fact. Yes, kindness and respect are important, but the welfare of children is more important, and I'm not going to tiptoe around anyone or walk on eggshells for fear that I may offend someone.







Nobody is asking you to "tip toe" around anything. We're just asking that you not be rude and use a little tact. Your point will come across better AND will be better recieved (and thus some one may actually listen to you) when you are polite. An example:








A woman asks whether or not she should feed her two month old baby honey. Some one says "Sure, go for it!" What is most likely to follow is "Are you stupid?! Don't feed a baby honey!" and that is not helpful or productive. A helpful and productive response would be "It is NOT safe for a child under the age of 2 to consume honey" and then maybe add a few links for more info. This way you have been helpful, informative, AND you have managed not to insult anyone. See? Much easier.








Then again, if you ENJOY calling people names or starting fights then I guess my method seems a bit silly. Insulting people or starting flame wars doesn't make you look smart or witty...it makes you look like an asshole.









Sorry but in that situation, the woman IS being stupid.  I see no reason why we need to worry about her feelings.  We are worrying about that poor baby.






And for the people who get their feelings hurt by internet strangers.....you really should get some thicker "internet skin."





Right...you're so worried about the baby that you would say something to insult the person that was asking for help and risk the chance of them never asking a question again when they have a genuine concern. 



How much help are you to a person's child when you ostracize the person caring for them?



It's called tact, people.   If everyone had all the answers, all the time, This forum wouldn't even BE here.



Have a little respect and try to remember that the DUMBEST question will be the one that never gets asked for fear of some internet know-it-all shitting all over you.

[deleted account]

I seriously cannot believe all the posts here. Tact and empathy go a long way in all areas of life, including internet postings. A mom who learns to develop her tact and empathy in expressing her differing opinions is doing not only herself a favor in dealing with people, but is doing her children a favor in cultivating an atmosphere of respect and care for all people.

Lisa - posted on 03/19/2009

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Quoting Kate:



Quoting Sarah:

You're right, it's not about different opinions, its about facts. If someone posts something that goes against what the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) says, it can be potentially dangerous. That's not opinion, that's fact. Yes, kindness and respect are important, but the welfare of children is more important, and I'm not going to tiptoe around anyone or walk on eggshells for fear that I may offend someone.





Nobody is asking you to "tip toe" around anything. We're just asking that you not be rude and use a little tact. Your point will come across better AND will be better recieved (and thus some one may actually listen to you) when you are polite. An example:






A woman asks whether or not she should feed her two month old baby honey. Some one says "Sure, go for it!" What is most likely to follow is "Are you stupid?! Don't feed a baby honey!" and that is not helpful or productive. A helpful and productive response would be "It is NOT safe for a child under the age of 2 to consume honey" and then maybe add a few links for more info. This way you have been helpful, informative, AND you have managed not to insult anyone. See? Much easier.






Then again, if you ENJOY calling people names or starting fights then I guess my method seems a bit silly. Insulting people or starting flame wars doesn't make you look smart or witty...it makes you look like an asshole.





Sorry but in that situation, the woman IS being stupid.  I see no reason why we need to worry about her feelings.  We are worrying about that poor baby.



And for the people who get their feelings hurt by internet strangers.....you really should get some thicker "internet skin."

Mel - posted on 03/19/2009

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Thanks Bethany. I think everybody jsut needs to ignore Emilys posts. Its quite clear she is looking for a rise out of people. JUST IGNORE IT. its a parents choice what they do with thier car seat. my little girl wasnt even close to the weight she was supposed to be when we turned hers around and this is because she was so little all her life and she was way over the age group so we did it anyway. basically if soemone says something u disagree with just say "I disagree with above posts and this is my opinon." no nasty words!

Kim - posted on 03/19/2009

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Quoting Emily:

Sara Mc, I completely agree with you!!! Some of the posts on here have terrible advice that is so dangerous for a baby. Like one mother was encouraging another mother that its okay to turn their 4 month old facing forward in the car. in that situation you HAVE to leave a comment saying no its not okay at all!! I dont care if that hurts someones feelings, its facts! I think when people get hurt and start to call you out, the majority of the time they are feeling guilty about their parenting choices.
And whats with everyone using our names? Most of the people whining about all the drama have the need to call us out by names and tell us we are wrong. So who's the dramatic ones here? Leaving post after post telling me my opinion is wrong. F you, its not. Thats how I feel! Its the internet. Not your safe happy bubble. If you have a problem with the advice that someone gives you, then YOU roll your eyes and move on. I've been called a witch and a nazi on this board because I am against CIO. How is that fair? I'm not allowed to have my own opinions and input on a public message board?
I'm sure everyone of us has extreme opinions on certain parenting issues. Like I could care less if you breastfeed or formula feed, but I am strongly against circumcision. Thats just who I am, and thats just who we all are.
For those of you who are whining all over the internet, and taking the drama further, sit down, relax, and realize its the INTERNET. Not a playground of rainbows ponies and unicorns. Get used to it now, or gtfo.


I agree with you that if someone is giving bad advice such as the turning the carseat around at 4 months you need to post something saying that is incorrect and could be dangerous.  However, I don't agree when it is worded in a manner to make the poster feel stupid.  Sometimes new parents don't know or have been given incorrect information. 



I don't think anyones opinion is wrong...I might not agree with it but then I don't have to listen to it.  It is your opinion that you are right, but that does not mean everyone is going to agree with you. It is very immature to tell people to F off because they disagree with you.   We are mature adults (I HOPE) and should be able to find a better way to communicate. 



I don't agree with the language you used and I don't agree with people name calling.  And I'm not just saying this to you.  I'm saying it to the person that called you a nazi and a witch.  So don't get so defensive. I don't think anyone is trying to play up the drama, but there have been times when I don't want to post to a question simply because of the argument above. Mothers ask for help and I just think we should stay on point and answer the question.

Emily - posted on 03/19/2009

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Sara Mc, I completely agree with you!!! Some of the posts on here have terrible advice that is so dangerous for a baby. Like one mother was encouraging another mother that its okay to turn their 4 month old facing forward in the car. in that situation you HAVE to leave a comment saying no its not okay at all!! I dont care if that hurts someones feelings, its facts! I think when people get hurt and start to call you out, the majority of the time they are feeling guilty about their parenting choices.
And whats with everyone using our names? Most of the people whining about all the drama have the need to call us out by names and tell us we are wrong. So who's the dramatic ones here? Leaving post after post telling me my opinion is wrong. F you, its not. Thats how I feel! Its the internet. Not your safe happy bubble. If you have a problem with the advice that someone gives you, then YOU roll your eyes and move on. I've been called a witch and a nazi on this board because I am against CIO. How is that fair? I'm not allowed to have my own opinions and input on a public message board?
I'm sure everyone of us has extreme opinions on certain parenting issues. Like I could care less if you breastfeed or formula feed, but I am strongly against circumcision. Thats just who I am, and thats just who we all are.
For those of you who are whining all over the internet, and taking the drama further, sit down, relax, and realize its the INTERNET. Not a playground of rainbows ponies and unicorns. Get used to it now, or gtfo.

Mel - posted on 03/18/2009

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Thanks Kate. Your quite knowledgable!! who are other people to tell u that something is wrong. if it worked for a certain person and they suggest it, then it doesnt mean its wrong.
and with regards to Kimberlys comments people are always going to disagree on the solids. MOST people i have noticed do agree with starting them 2-4 months and then u get these others who keep telling us that we are bad mothers!! u start solids when ever u feel it is right for your child. its a personal choice. i know babies on rice cereal from one months old and others wait alot longer. personally i listened to the professionals who ok'd it for me at 3 months. anyway getting off the topic but your comments Kate are excellent and well said, you know how to say the things i wanted to say but i didnt know how to put it into words. thanks :)

Kate CP - posted on 03/18/2009

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Quoting Sarah:



Quoting Kate:




Quoting Sarah:

You're right, it's not about different opinions, its about facts. If someone posts something that goes against what the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) says, it can be potentially dangerous. That's not opinion, that's fact. Yes, kindness and respect are important, but the welfare of children is more important, and I'm not going to tiptoe around anyone or walk on eggshells for fear that I may offend someone.







Nobody is asking you to "tip toe" around anything. We're just asking that you not be rude and use a little tact. Your point will come across better AND will be better recieved (and thus some one may actually listen to you) when you are polite. An example:








A woman asks whether or not she should feed her two month old baby honey. Some one says "Sure, go for it!" What is most likely to follow is "Are you stupid?! Don't feed a baby honey!" and that is not helpful or productive. A helpful and productive response would be "It is NOT safe for a child under the age of 2 to consume honey" and then maybe add a few links for more info. This way you have been helpful, informative, AND you have managed not to insult anyone. See? Much easier.








Then again, if you ENJOY calling people names or starting fights then I guess my method seems a bit silly. Insulting people or starting flame wars doesn't make you look smart or witty...it makes you look like an asshole.









Actually, the way you describe a productive reply is exactly what I did.  I eventually said some advice was ridiculous and absurd because it went against what the AAP says.  I didn't call anyone names.  And, really, saying things that are endlessly stupid makes people look like assholes, telling someone that they're wrong, and backing it up with evidence does not.  TYVM.





ACTUALLY, I was making an example and I hadn't read your post in the other thread. So, I have no clue what conversation you are actually referring to. Telling people they are stupid is...calling them a name. Telling people that their ideas are stupid is also rather insulting. And saying something stupid doesn't make a person look like an asshole it just makes them look uninformed. Unless a person is intentionally giving bad advice (and really how can you tell?), then keeping things neutral is best. 



Some people like to fight and hey, more power to ya I say. I try my best not to get sucked into those types of conversations but everyone has a moment of weakness. 



Something else I have learned through my life: people like their problems. You ever notice that if some one is kavetching about something and you offer several different solutions they shut you down every time? Its because they enjoy having a problem-they get to complain about something. Everyone likes attention from other people...some people just don't know how to go about getting attention without being obnoxious. 



For the record, I did not intend for any of my comments to come off as a personal attack in any way. I'll say things like it is and I'll be blunt about it, but I'm not a fan of being mean, ya know? So, no offense meant! :)

Kim - posted on 03/18/2009

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I completely agree that people need to word their posts in a more tactful manner. This isn't supposed to be who is the superior mother, but is supposed to be a forum for mothers to help other mothers. Opinions are great, but they should not put down other opinions.

For the people that think AAP guidelines are the do all, say all of mothering....they will change next year and the year following that. They are simple guidelines not a manual to mothering! Each mother has to follow their babies behaviors...I can't simply tell my baby that they are not allowed to have solids until 4-6 months because it is not recommended by the AAP. So please just be respectful of each other. It is what we would want our children to do isn't it???

Jana - posted on 03/18/2009

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Bathany, I agree with you, you said what I was thinking, but didn't have the guts to post.  So for that I say thank you.

Mel - posted on 03/18/2009

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yeah chosing the wording better is a good idea. I think thats very right I disagree with some things that are said against what I had written and unfortunately did let it get to me but best if people do chose thier words better and as Kate said (great comment btw) things WILL come across better if your polite. thanks all. dont let this thread get into a fight. jst let it help you to understand why some people say what they say and try to accept the way people are.

Sara - posted on 03/18/2009

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This has been a general theme to A LOT of posts lately...what's going on with all of us? But you know I agree Bethany, even if we are just trying to be helpful, it would be wise to chose our words more carefully. Motherhood is a sensitive subject!

Sarah - posted on 03/18/2009

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Quoting Kate:



Quoting Sarah:

You're right, it's not about different opinions, its about facts. If someone posts something that goes against what the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) says, it can be potentially dangerous. That's not opinion, that's fact. Yes, kindness and respect are important, but the welfare of children is more important, and I'm not going to tiptoe around anyone or walk on eggshells for fear that I may offend someone.





Nobody is asking you to "tip toe" around anything. We're just asking that you not be rude and use a little tact. Your point will come across better AND will be better recieved (and thus some one may actually listen to you) when you are polite. An example:






A woman asks whether or not she should feed her two month old baby honey. Some one says "Sure, go for it!" What is most likely to follow is "Are you stupid?! Don't feed a baby honey!" and that is not helpful or productive. A helpful and productive response would be "It is NOT safe for a child under the age of 2 to consume honey" and then maybe add a few links for more info. This way you have been helpful, informative, AND you have managed not to insult anyone. See? Much easier.






Then again, if you ENJOY calling people names or starting fights then I guess my method seems a bit silly. Insulting people or starting flame wars doesn't make you look smart or witty...it makes you look like an asshole.





Actually, the way you describe a productive reply is exactly what I did.  I eventually said some advice was ridiculous and absurd because it went against what the AAP says.  I didn't call anyone names.  And, really, saying things that are endlessly stupid makes people look like assholes, telling someone that they're wrong, and backing it up with evidence does not.  TYVM.

Chantel - posted on 03/18/2009

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Quoting Jemima:

Sorry, I'm new on here - I didn't realise this was a recurring issue.



Don't be sorry...everything is a recurring issue!! lol. And Emily is a recurring negative commenter....



I agree with what you're saying Bethany. It does seem to be getting worse since I've joined COM. It seems like every time I go to read and respond to a post there are already 50 posts of people going back and forth over the same issues because thay don't agree with each other. There have been a few of these posts (mine included) asking people to be nicer but I don't think it will do any good. We are all moms but we are also all women and for better or worse cattiness seems to always enter into conversations between women with different opinions no matter what the subject. No harm in trying though:)

Kylie - posted on 03/18/2009

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Quoting Emily:

I think everyone should stop instigating the drama. Hasnt there been enough posts about this lately? You may think you are helping, but you are really cultivating the drama by making these redundant posts over and over.
Disclaimer- Hannah, you need not reply to my resonse, haha.


 



Emily, this is exactly wat the post was about. if you dont hvae anythign nice to say dont say anything at all. And if there are so many posts about this then why do you keep commenting, read them, roll your eyes if you wish and move on. theres no need to be rude about it.

Mel - posted on 03/18/2009

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Thanks Kylie. I wish everybody was like you and hope that everybody will read this and respect everyones rights and opinions

Mel - posted on 03/18/2009

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Sarah I respect your opinion but will agree to disagree just because I dont want anymore fights but at the same time would very much appreciate you not making innapropriate comments after my posts (which you have not done lately and Im very greatful) as I only say what I know to be fact. The person who writes the post will decide which option they decide to do so its not anyone elses place to say that someone is wrong. use more nicer words and just say that you disagree but everybody has the right to say what they know. Thankyou and you have a lovely little baby x

Kylie - posted on 03/18/2009

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Quoting Emily:

I think everyone should stop instigating the drama. Hasnt there been enough posts about this lately? You may think you are helping, but you are really cultivating the drama by making these redundant posts over and over.
Disclaimer- Hannah, you need not reply to my resonse, haha.


 



Emily, this is exactly wat the post was about. if you dont hvae anythign nice to say dont say anything at all. And if there are so many posts about this then why do you keep commenting, read them, roll your eyes if you wish and move on. theres no need to be rude about it.

Mel - posted on 03/18/2009

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Thanks Bethany an excellent post. please everybody stop the insults, abuse and hostility. emily no need for that post. best wishes everyone xx

Kelley - posted on 03/18/2009

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Life is precious everything happens for a reason. God gives us different journeys. May the journey we have as a mommy., be ablessing.

Jemima - posted on 03/18/2009

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Ahhh... I totally agree. Think before you hit 'enter' - there's no need to cause unnecessary offense. Just rearranging the words a bit can make a post sound less rude without straying from the point you were trying to make. Everyone is entitled to their opinions but they are not entitled to verbally attack others. Thankyou Bethany!!!

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