Parents bullied by child protection agency.

[deleted account] ( 312 moms have responded )

I've been getting much feedback from my response to a mother who has a 3yr old son who is out of control at times and the mom was at her wits end with what to do about it.

Many people responded to her plea for help, including me. This morning a received an email from a mother who had a government agency at her doorstep for using soap when her own child used fowl language. I have two VERY big issues with this.
First, when did soap in the mouth become abuse. Yes, it tastes bad but soap is not the first place a parent goes when dealing with foul language. It is usually the LAST resort threat to an ongoing list of behavior changes (parents often don't realize how much THEY swear until their child reaches parrot age).

Second, WTF does a government child protection agency think is ILLEGAL about soap in the mouth! I challenge this ALL THE WAY! We have a job as parents to RAISE OUR CHILDREN! No one said that was easy. WE have to fight against a society that teaches children to DISrespect authority, their bodies, and their friends.

I am appalled that there are people out there using government power to push their views on others ( I bet the person who sent people to this woman's house didn't like soap in her mouth when she/he was a child). If agencies want to pursue God fearing parents who want to raise their children to be productive members of society and not parents who don't care what their children do then the system will collapse. Until these government agencies PAY to RAISE my child they can butt out! If I have to fight in court I will.

It's about time ALL parents band together and stand up to abusive government agencies! It is because of them that we have an entire group of moms pulling their hair out because they don't know what to do with their unruly children. I feel for this woman because she now lives in FEAR when having to handle discipline issues and correcting bad behavior!

We as circle of moms should ban together whenever we hear of such abuses! We are not just moms, we are lawyers, doctors, social workers, etc. Let us all support and protect each other when it's needed!

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Trish - posted on 03/31/2010

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I couldn't agree more! It sickens me to see the upcoming generation and their behavior and attitude. No respect for anyone or anything. The people who want these laws probably have never had children and dont even know one bit what its like to be a parent. Since we are not aloud to discipline our children the way we feel is neccessary then what do you do when your 2 yr old kicks you in the face with shoes on because hes not getting his way? Does anyone really think that telling him "no dont do that" is going to help? No but giving him a spanking will! I guess I should have not done that so that he will do it again! If i give my child a black eye or break a bone then come call abuse on me, but if i smack my child on the ass because he did something bad enough to deserve it then leave me alone!! Best quote ever: "I spank my child so he doesnt grow up and shoot yours!!" =)

Melissa - posted on 03/31/2010

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further more protective services sent me home with an abusive step father, after i reported the drug abuse and the 10 am drinking, they sat him down for about 30 seconds, he said i was ungreatful and a lier, and they thought oh well, send her home, i was punched and kicked, sworn at and threatened. It took me years of courage to walk threw those doors and report them hoping that my brother, sister and i would be taken from that house, years of tourment, and as the eldest felt it was my duty to do something about what was happening. Social services did wrong by me, and my siblings, and i was terrified to go back. they were most probably understaffed, under trained and as an adult now, i can see that they possibly just didn't read the signs, and couldn't see what hell was going on in my home. there should be a review on the DOCS system, and i for one would be happy for my tax paying dollars to fund it!

Janet - posted on 03/31/2010

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Soap in the mouth for foul language? Sounds like a return to the good old days of child discipline. Maybe she picked this up from that great Christmas movie, The Christmas Story. But surely there are better ways to deal with this problem than to bully your kids. !

Melissa - posted on 03/31/2010

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we having two little girls now, i can tell you that i as a child was given hot chilli peppers straight from the tree to chew in my mouth for lying to my parents, i wouldn't have been more than 14, i left home at 16 after being thrown out, by drug abusive and alcoholic parents. I haven't spoken to my mum in 17 years. I don't believe my parents did "all they could" i believe to this day that they were not good parents at all, Now as a 33 year old mother of two, i tend to think " i just won't do to mine as they did to me," and it is a conscious decision to not do or deal with my girls the same was i was "dragged" up. i too had soap in the mouth - it only taught to be clever, and only swear when i wasn't in ear range of my parents? sorry that treatment was wasted on me. My 5 year old knows what swear words are, and she knows better than to parrot them if she hears them, she is however quite to dobber and will come and tell me she has heard them. Never have i resorted to cruelty of soap in mouth, try talking to your children instead of treating them like dosile objects. Don't repeat your parents mistakes, make a positive change and TALK to your children!

Jennifer - posted on 03/31/2010

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"I hope when you are older and need care that your children treat you with the same level of respect and love you give them."

How many children do you have over the age of 8? I am going to guess that you are a young mother.

Punzelina - posted on 03/31/2010

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Common sense should absolutely be used, but unfortunately it isn't so common any more, hence this horrible call. 1. Soap isn't toxic in small quantities, particularly normal washing soap. 2. I agree that there are so many other people who are REALLY abusing and neglecting their kids that for the CPS agency to knock on these people's door is ridiculous. If that is the only reported thing happening in this home, then they are doing great. 3. The kid hears the language from somewhere and that should be dealt with. We can't do things around our kids without them mimicking, and to punish them for something we do too is confusing and inconsistent. 4. More kids in the world NEED to be disciplined fairly and not every kid responds the same way. Mine responds lovely to just the warning of the swat on the behind, but he learned that he didn't like it first. On the other hand, I was not the same. I had to be STRONGLY persuaded to obey and if I wasn't shown that my parent was stronger than me, then I had full run of the place and that would have been no good.



People need to pay more attention to the real issues and leave innocent families alone. Look at the big picture instead of picking out one tiny little issue that you disagree with and call it abuse. Raising a terror who can't control themselves and are self centered with an entitlement mentality is abuse. Call CPS on someone who is really abusing or neglecting their child, not on someone who is doing the best they can to raise a decent child. If you don't like how they are doing it, maybe offer a suggestion for how to address the issue... since you know better.

Jennifer - posted on 03/31/2010

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@Denise
How do you feel parentalrights.org is manipulating what the UNCRC says? Have you seen court cases of what is going on in the other countries that have already adopted this bill?
When I did my research on the UNCRC, I found that their so-called myths were not backed up with any proof. Whereas, when you research on the parentalrights.org side, they actually back up their words with the UNCRC actual wording. They show you plainly what the UNCRC is all about. They are not manipulating if they clearly quote you the exact wording of the document.
The UNCRC's attack on parentalright.org was weak, they had no proof of the myths they were so called attacking parentalrights.org about.
In my opinion, parentalrights.org has it right. But please by no means would any other person here on this thread take our words for it. Do your own research and prayerfully consider what you should do about it. Guess I can agree with you on that at least.

Britney - posted on 03/31/2010

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Denise, was that in response to my post? And what exactly did you mean? My parents spanked me and the only thing I love more than my parents are my kids and my husband. Soooo yes I show my parents the same respect they showed me. I am grateful for the way they raised me! When they are too old to care for themselves, I will lovingly provide care for them the same way they did for me, even though I was spanked. I'm not sure exactly what you meant but I am not just walking around spanking my kids just for the heck of it. There is 100 times more love and respect in my household BECAUSE I discipline my kids. I'm told all of the time by my 4 year old that I'm the bestest mommy ever and that she loves me. Do you think she'd be saying that if she was emotionally scarred or if I was humiliating her??? I hope you didn't mean what I think you meant. Please elaborate.

Cynthia - posted on 03/31/2010

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This is why when my daughter overdosed with her children in her care & presence, I immediately (along w/the father of the oldest at my advice) went to the local court and petitioned to have guardianship of my youngest granddaughter. I'm sure there are those out there with legal nightmare stories too, but I have found the court system to be fair and certainly more trustworthy than the state. I feared DCYF would come and and remove the children and put them in the system. A close friend in a similar situation had taken all 4 of her grandchildren when daughter was messed up on drugs and state had stepped in. The children already going thru trauma felt safe & loved at grandparents and had a healthy, happy home for the first time. After only just over a week, state came charging in and took the children, separated them all out to foster homes and facilities, and wouldn't allow the grandparents to take them back. IT WAS HORRIBLE. Made me cry to think of those children scared and alone. Their drug-addict, abusive father had made a complaint to the state that the grandparents lived too far away for him to travel (w/no license!) to see the children and that he wasn't allowed in their home either. Well, hell yeah you're not welcome! Why should he have any say or rights when he's a drug addict and can't even make a home for them? They had told their daughter she was free to come live w/them too if she cleaned up. But at the time being with her loser man was more important. My point is the situation may have gone very differently if they had something legal with the court in place. If you're interested in the ending, dad disappeared, mom never cleaned her act up in time to regain the children so the state took them away permanently. Some have been adopted by good people and are leading happy lives. Some (last I knew) were still in facilities. Grandparents can never see them again once adopted unless adoptive family agrees, and then only once a year.

Crystial - posted on 03/31/2010

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all im saying is that either way cps woulda been called had the child gone to school and use bad language or daydare and we all know if we over heard bad language coming out of a child at let say walmart wed be say o that woman has no control over her child.

Tah - posted on 03/31/2010

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i keep hearing children compared to adults on here. Children are not adults, and that is the problem some think they are. If a adult is cussing guess what they are adults. do i agree with them cussing in front of children or in certain places, of course not, but they are entitled to do it no matter how we feel about it. Adults can do things that children can't, i would punish my teenager for cussing, and drinking, and anything else that are not old enough to do. adults and children and different, we are giving children rights to disrespect adults and themselves and it is becoming a problem, of course they have rights..dont get me wrong, but my child does not have the right to cuss at me, or anyone else, hit or try to intimidate me in my own home, every child is different, time out might work for one and the other may laugh and use it to conspire, the problem is, children know that their parents are limited, and they use it to their advantage. My son said, look mom i'm taller than you, i told him my reach goes to 6'7 and after that i will stand on a chair, my mother woke my brother up out of his sleep with a spanking one day...he was around 12, but taller than her and she had been talking to him for 3 days, taking privileges, and all that good stuff, he asked for it and she gave it to him and im only surprised it took her that long, and If my father had to get involved, then whoa boy.



My son's father and I dont even speak but if i call him and tell him or his grandfathers, or my husband, or my nephews, or my brother that my son ever, raised his hand to me, or threw something at me, there would be a line outside the door to get to him and i would open it gladly, say what you want, but come on, we have on this post alone, children throwing computer chairs at their mothers, threatening them to the point where moms are calling cps crying and asking for help. I can not even fathom it. If you can't do what I say, when i say, then there are consequences. So you have options, you may not like them but you have them. Some of these children are prob to this point because the mother has been to scared to discipline and now they are running around like little monsters, and now all the people with cps on speed dial are trying to call the cops on your kids because they threw something at them. Well maybe if you allowed me to discipline him when he was throwing a sippy cup at 3, He wouldn't be throwing objects that could give me major head trauma if they were to actually have great aim.

Denise - posted on 03/31/2010

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Those of you who look at parentalrights.org, please do your own research. In my opinion they seriously manipulate the language and substance in the U.N. Convention on the Rights of the Child.

There are other ways to stand up for parental and children's rights.

Cynthia - posted on 03/31/2010

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This is an interesting subject. This is just my opinion, but I guess I feel, as with anything else, in the attempt to right a situation the scales often become unbalanced toward the other side. It's wonderful that child abuse is out in the open now and children are getting the much needed help they require. But now the scales are tipped in the other direction and everything is seen as child abuse. I certainly don't agree that soap in the mouth for swearing is against the law or abuse. I thought the definition of abuse was to cause the child harm, which this does not. It's a harmless but effective way of breaking a bad habit. Now certainly you have to take into consideration if swearing is going on openly in the home, and the child is simply repeating what they hear. In that event, I don't feel punishment is fair. The solution would be to stop the potty mouth in the home. I, myself, obstain except for an emotional outburst when I hurt myself, and then I apologize and say it was wrong. I have LEARNED to use other phrases such as "cheese on a cracker" or "Jeez Louise." It took some doing but they are great at reminding you, aren't they? As for the agency involvement in that particular situation, I would hope nothing would come of it. If an atty is needed, get one.

Denise - posted on 03/31/2010

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I hope when you are older and need care that your children treat you with the same level of respect and love you give them.

Britney - posted on 03/31/2010

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In response to what Judith said "Ever think that that phrase meant literally...spare the rod and spoil the child? Children SHOULD be spoiled with loads of love, nurturance from parents, wise guidance from parents and other adults, good role models, etc. etc. etc." -- Of course we should give our kids love and nurture them and guide them! Nobody is saying that we shouldn't show our children love and guide them. But have you ever seen a "spoiled" child??? I think of Veruca Salt in Charlie and the Chocolate factory, LOL ... We are arguing on the side of how to discipline them. After I spank my kids (which happens rarely because they know how to behave and respect me and my husband) I sit down and make sure that they know I still love them and I ask them if they know why they are being punished and I make sure they understand! I spank my kids, but I don't just go around "hitting" them for no reason. When they are spanked they know why! We have to teach our kids that there are consequences when they behave badly or they will get the mindset as adults that they will get away with anything and that rules don't apply to them. I can give my 4 year old daughter time-out after time-out and it doesn't do a damn thing, but I smack her mouth if she back-talks me or swat her butt and she listens! With my two year old, all I have to do is look at him cross-eyed and I break his heart, I have rarely had to spank him. Anyone that tells me that I can't spank my kid, I'll tell them to go through a time-out with my 4 year old and see if they think it helped. Time-outs are the biggest bunch of bull crap. Kids don't care if they have to sit there, they're just sitting there using their imagination to think up what to do next. The dumbest thing I've ever heard is the time-out should be for how old they are??? Are you kidding me? 4 minutes for a 4 year old?, what if they're still screaming there head off, what do you say? "well honey, you're still screaming at me and disrespecting me, but it's been 4 minutes go ahead and go play" LOL, please tell me how that helps! And again, if body soap were so poisonous, most of us would be dead ... How would it be safe to wash ourselves off with poisonous soap??? I'm sure we got soapy water in our mouths as kids during bath time... I had my mouth washed out with soap when I was a kid, I'm not "emotionally scarred" , I wasn't humiliated, it didn't make me hate my father for doing it, I just simply spit the soap out and never cussed again! Wow! I was taught that there was a consequence for cussing! And are we forcing our kids to swallow the soap??? Please! Now THAT would be abuse, I think most people that "soap" their kids mouth are doing it enough to let them have taste of it. All of this psychology crap about kids being emotionally scarred for life because they're spanked is the biggest bunch of bull-shit I've ever heard. My great grandparents, my grandparents, and my parents and me and my siblings were all spanked and there's not an emotionally scarred, serial killer, or criminal among the lot of us. Like I said before, I don't think any of us are going to change one another's mind, so we should just agree to disagree and mind our own business, and let each mother raise her kid how she deems fit, and we'll see when those spoiled little brats that just had "time-outs", and were "spared the rod" their whole life turn out when they're adults ... =)

Jenn - posted on 03/31/2010

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I agree that children need to be more disciplined and respectful than most parents have been raising them to be. I am a mother of three. An 11 year old, a 6 year old and a one month old. My two oldest get out of their chair when an older person walks into the room, they fetch a drink if company is thirsty, they use "ma'am and sir" when addressing elders and very fluently use their manners.

I do not beat my children, except for a spankin' on the butt when needed, and I most certainly have never had to resort to putting soap in my children's mouths.

I think the problem lies more in the parents if the children are to the point where they disrespect you enough to repeatedly use this language after being told not to in the first place.

A child in the "parroting" age is one that will test his limits with his parents but it is nothing that cannot be controlled without soap.....Now a TEENAGER on the other hand.....

Besides, when we were kids and got the good ole' soap in the mouth whether it was liquid or half a bar (in my case) there weren't as many chemicals and extra crap that there are in soap nowadays and if you actually do your reseach, there are many daily use soaps on the market that can be very harmful and almost fatal if ingested by a child.

In a lot of cases, I will not back social services but in this case, where are social services to draw the line on a phone call? Are they to "ask" the parent what kind of soap they are using and how much they are feeding to their child?? Then are they supposed to just BELIEVE this parent is not lying?

Just a reminder to everyone that there are a lot of F#$%ed up parents out there that will do harm to their children intentionally.

Child Protective Services job is to check on these allegations for the safety of the children and 90 percent of these cases DO NOT result in anything more than maybe a 2 hour long parenting class and a little talk with you as to why you should not do these things.

I would suggest you call Child Protective Services to ask for information on why putting soap in a child's mouth is harmful especially in this day and age and I can almost guaranty that they will mail you a big ole' informational packet in the mail that week free of charge.

There are children dying because of their parents neglect. A child most likely will not die of soap in the mouth but it IS possible and it IS possible that a parent will start taking it farther.



Jenn

Jennifer - posted on 03/31/2010

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I still say what I have said before, make sure your rights as parents are not taken away. I am not fighting against CPS, this is about making it the parents right to raise their child. Look at www.parentalrights.org.
If the UNCRC is ratified, you will no longer be innocent until proven guilty and the CPS will have to do their jobs according to the law (like they do now) but the LAW changing is what you have to worry about.
Read more about it please and make sure you know your rights.
www.parentalrights.org
This is not a cite about making it harder for CPS, in fact it protects children from abusive and neglectful parents but it is basically saying that we do not want foreign bureaucrats deciding the laws of our land. Our laws of how we are to raise our children.

[deleted account]

Case in point to coddling children...About 3 years ago a teenage boy was arrested for taking a gun to school because he wanted to shoot bullies and teacher..on camera his mother worried that he would have a hard time in jail without his BLANKEE! WTF BLANKEE! Ok....her concern about his blanket withdrawal floored me..

Many schools cannot play competitive games (or line kids up to be picked) because they might feel bad about themselves for loosing or not getting picked...ok society doesn't give a SHIT about you and if you are on the bandwagon that you don't want to injure your child's feelings then OMG we are in trouble..life is not fair..I didn't like it when my parents told me that but they were right..it's not. And guess what else...it's hateful, unfair, VERY competitive, and I make darn sure that I help my granddaughter learn how to navigate through that without loosing her own moral values.

I am grateful that I live in a country where I am allowed to have an opinion (at least for now) and I will fight for that right and for your right to not agree with me. We live in a time that is on the brink of major change. Please ask yourself what direction do you want our country to go in?

We are a country that DOES NOT VALUE OUR CHILDREN! Bitch all you want but education, health care for children, and a slew of parents who do not make their children their priority in life WILL BE our downfall.

I hope this discussion has been insightful to you in some way..even for naysayers..because at least we all seem to CARE about children and WANT to generally help our fellow man.

As for our overburdened system....put up or shut up..VOLUNTEER! In your community, your local youth organizations, schools, wherever there is a chance to mentor a child. You never know if YOU will be that person who touches someone's life.

Tammera - posted on 03/31/2010

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This is not totally true. Kids are rough these days.They are very mean to each other and the things I have seen and heard at daycare and school is enough to knock our socks off!

Amber - posted on 03/31/2010

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Thank you, Michael for the great links!
I don't know what ivory tower some of these posters are living in, but false or frivolous reports are filed all the time and even with the most understanding caseworker it puts stress on the family and they have to jump through hoops to prove their innocence. You don't have to "mess up" to be put through an investigation.
On the flip side, I have called before in the most extreme circumstances and seen nothing done.

Tammera - posted on 03/31/2010

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I would like to read the article that claims a child died from having soap put in their mouth! I know all about fostering and all the rules and regulations and if you foster you have to know how much the government meddles in the lives of children and most of the time it is unnecessary!

JamieLeigh - posted on 03/31/2010

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Hm.. Did your brother die from ingesting a little soap? Parents these days are too over-protective. I bet you're the mother that hovers over her child on the jungle gym that would be perfectly capable of doing it on their own if you gave them the chance.

I think you're naive. Parents are coddling their kids as if they're a piece of glass. Honestly, some kids are wild as hell and thats the only way to get through to them. Is spanking bad too? I spank my daughter. Does that make me an abuser? In your eyes it probably does. My daughter is 3 1/2 and she is more independent than half of the 7-8 year olds at the park here. Let your kids grow up and punish them when they need it. It's ridiculous to insult someone over using soap or spanking their child. Go attack the woman and men that beat and starve their kids. Just gtfo.

Denise - posted on 03/31/2010

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I can't believe you think it's bad that CPS came to investigate -- that is their job! They didn't take the kids away or throw the mom in jail or anything of that sort, right?



When the police come to check on something that doesn't look right or the fire department comes to see if that smoke behind your house is a fire, they are doing their jobs.



Confident moms who know they are taking good care of their children don't have to fear CPS!

Elizabeth - posted on 03/31/2010

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Thank you so much for writing this response. I don't believe in BEATING your child but when a little bit of soap is used as a punishment it certainly does not hurt the child. Their feelings may be hurt but they are hurting other people with their words. I'm scared to theaten my children with anything because SOMEONE might overhear what I'm saying!!! It is obvious that in our society today children are literally getting away with murder but who allowed them to do this, our government. They can't side step the issue of child violence when they helped to create it. If, as parents, we could dicipline our children would be respectful of themselves and of others. We see it everyday and we should not be afraid.

Jennifer - posted on 03/31/2010

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Are you saying home schooled children are out of control. I wasn't sure I understood what you were saying about the children not going to school who are out of control. My husband is an SRO in a middle school and he would agree, kids no days, well not all but for the most part out of control. As an SRO, he encourages parents to discipline more. He tells them the have rights to spank, time out,ground. Whatever is needed as long as it is done without abuse, and not in anger.

Crystial - posted on 03/31/2010

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well soap in the mouth i personally wouldnt do that but let me tell you this if that child went to school and used bad language cps woulda been called because nothing was done to stop it obviously the mother was at her wits end and i understand

Amy - posted on 03/31/2010

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@ Colleen,

I don't recall saying that I condoned the use of soap, in fact it's never been a tactic I've employed. I also meant to make clear, that I as well am thankful there is a safety net, but as with all things well intentioned, it doesn't always work well. I think it's a thankless job, but a necessary one, as not all parents make the best or right decisions in their parenting. I believe my childhood would be a case in point. I apologize if that wasn't made clear.

Selesha - posted on 03/31/2010

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Ok I agree to a point. I do not believe in spanking a child with a belt. One spank on the bottom with your hand is enough. I do not believe in putting soap in a child's mouth. Not only is it disqusting. But have you ever thought of the perfumes they put in the soap? Now yes Child and Youth are in my opinion a waste of time. They will go and attack parnets who are raising their children the best way possible. But the parnets that are abusing their children or neglecting them they get away with it cause.. Cause Children and Youth have too many complaints a day too deal with them all.. Since its become a big thing with smacking your child's butt. Or even yelling at your child.. The children that are not attending school are out of control. The raise of bullying and fights at schools are at a all time high. When I was a child in school my parnets didn't have to worry about me getting shot at or even in a fight that was later viewed on youtube. Nor did they have to worry about sextexting.. I think you people out there that are giving people a hard time for correcting their children need to back off.. You all are the first to be sitting there judging them when their child turns around and shots someone or a opens fire at a middleschool..

Colleen - posted on 03/31/2010

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first of all, i am a foster parent. i know what abuse goes on out there. i have had children in my home that have had all different kinds of abuse. there is way to much out there. let me tell you something about putting soap in a childs mouth, a parent put soap in his childs mouth and that child died. now you tell me if that abuse or not. i would say it is. there are other options of dealing with their child instead of laying a had on them. i'm very glad that the goverment steps in. if they didn't, look at how many kids would be abused or even killed. there is nothing wrong with what the goverment is doing about it. its there job. just sit back and think about it. i do not feel sorry one bit for the mother who put soap in her childs mouth and then the agency showed up. she deserved every minute of it.

Julie - posted on 03/31/2010

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I work as a secretary for that same type of government agency.



There are those who would stand up for the parent as you have and tell government to keep our noses out of other peoples problems. And there are those who will yell just as loud that we should get in there and do something.



We are damned if we do and damned if we don't.



Read any news story and just know that all the facts are not contained therein. The accused can say whatever they want - they are NOT bound by confidentiality laws as the government is. The government is extremely limited in what they can legally say.



I know absolutely nothing about the case to which you refer. I am speaking in a more broad sense. I agree with you that, based on the few facts we have, no one should have knocked on this woman's door because of soap. (Although I personally believe it is humiliating - not to mention potentially toxic.)



Hard-working men and women put themselves in harms way day-after-day because they believe that every child has a right to a safe home environment. These workers go out on calls made by the public. When Jane Q. Public makes a referral, a sophisticated series of questions are asked and then a human being (yes, a thinking, feeling human being) makes a decision (based on laws and no doubt their gut) on whether or not the report has merit. The referral is then forwarded to another human being who goes out to investigate.



I know a worker who was pistol-whipped. She was just out doing her job, trying to do the right thing. The incident changed her forever. I know workers who have had their tires slashed. And every worker out there has been threatened. Mostly these threats are not carried out, but if you're the one staring at an angry mother or father and they're saying they're going to f'ing kill you ... you take it seriously. Every time a threat is uttered, we ALL remember the woman who was pistol-whipped.



So is it really fair to blame this on the government? None of us know what was said in the original phone call that got the ball rolling.



Do human beings make mistakes? Sure. Human beings who are lawyers, doctors, social workers AND I might add parents. I only ask that you please respect the social workers that are trying to help the parents who have made mistakes.

Amanda - posted on 03/31/2010

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I really don't know what to say for this, in one way I agree with you in another I don't, yes I am sometimes afraid to disapline my child in fear that any person out there holding a grudge against me in some way will call CPS and then if I lost my son I would die, but I take care of my son, he is three, we play toys with him we teach him, feed him he can go to the potty all by himself we did that and he is clean but sometimes a little hard to handle when he refuses to eat because he wants ice cream and not his dinner, I was told I was only allowed to have him on time out for three minutes because of his age but I refuse to let him get away with things so there was days that he was on time out for an hour! I was there with him if he was sat there I was sat there trying to get him to eat so he could get off and it worked, I have only spanked him once and it was not hard he had his pants on but it did frighten him that I smacked him on his bum and he did listen that is a last resort and I always watch myself to make sure that it is not hard and will not leave marks, I do tap him on the hand if the pls don't do that or time out or listen to mommy pls will not work, I have taken his toys from him and other things like that but it would be nice not to be scared of having him taken from me... I have met parents who had their children taken for bad reasons, for things that wasn't there fault, with in weeks the children returned and no appoligies just a letter sayin the case is closed then I have met mothers who did not take care of there children and was given the time to clean up there mess and did not so lost their children because they were not being watched. but in most cases there is nothing done, I have heard of children that were not being beaten but neglected and not taken care of and nothing being done about it and its like what are you suppose to do. I do not however agree with soap in the mouth or belts on the bum, weather anyone does it or not my parents never did it to me and I do think soap has chemicals in it that should not be ingested or else the box would say edible soap. Common that is gross and I would not put anything like that in my childs mouth, no my son has already had it in his mouth because I caught him licking it all by himself cause he is wierd like that so of course I have all of my cleaners locked up safe and tight! so he can't drink or eat anything but even though I do not agree with the soap in the mouth I don't think it will kill them unless someone is making them eat a whole lot. honestly I don't really know the system, I beleive they are trying to do there job but maybe goin about it wrong... I don't know but it would be nice to not live in fear of the CPS. woundering if I am doing anything wrong with my son when I would give my life for him but this day and age it just dosen't seem enough anymore.

Judy - posted on 03/31/2010

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Behavior specialits usually agree on one thing - all behavior is a form of communication. If we turn off the TV, the computer, the Wii, put down the cell phones, cut back on the activities and sit down together at the table or around a board game we may find out what our kids are trying to tell us. Then these "last resort" punishments may not be necessary.

Jennifer - posted on 03/31/2010

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But we don't need bureaucrats from some foreign country deciding what is best either. To protect our current system is what parentalrights.org is about.

Amy - posted on 03/31/2010

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I just had to add this too. i have a friend who has a child who is 12. He has been doted upon for his whole live as a result has no ability to do anything for himself. Not even walke 2 blocks to school. I personally feel this is a pretty big abuse. Children who are never disciplined, and never have to do for themselves aren't being done any favors, for sure.

Kathy - posted on 03/31/2010

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I am 51 years old and raising my second family. I have 3 beautiful little grandsons who are 8, 5, and 4 who live with my husband and myself. We have full custody of all three. I've been reading the many posts and I have to say you guys are really funny. If you are looking for a tried and true method of discipline that works on every child in every situation you are not living in the real world. The first three boys we raised were as different as night from day. One would shiver at be called down. The other two were stubborn and very independent. Time out hadn't been heard of at that time. We simply took time out of our busy day to spank their behinds. Never abuse. Did it help? Not always. Did long talks, spankings, groundings, losing priviledges or any other form work everytime. Absolutely not. Each situation was dealt with according to it's severity. They were all taken to church every time the doors were opened. They were raised to respect and be kind. One is 31, clean and sober 5 years and getting married May 23. Has corrected the error of his ways and is living a productive life. One is 30 .. recently married his sweetheart of ten years. Owns two beautiful homes and is a professional and very successful. The youngest passed away at 24 from Methadone given to him by his mother in law to help him sleep. He was the father of our three grandsons. They were all raised the same way, ate the same food, grew up in the same house with both parents, churched, and disciplined. We are now reading every piece of literature on how to raise successful children, praying for guidance and knowledge for the boys we are now raising. My best advice, use common sense. Know who your children's friends are and who their parents are. They don't need another friend in you, they need parents. Be very involved in their lives and teach them God's word. Pray constantly and ask God to watch over and protect them. I've heard it said "I didn't get a book when I gave birth to my child that told how to raise the perfect child". Yes you did, it's the Bible. Do the very best you can to correct and discipline your children. Love them unconditional and tell them every day how much you love them. Don't discipline in anger. Always follow discipline with positive reinforcement and a big hug and kiss.

Amy - posted on 03/31/2010

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I've been sitting here reading these posts for nearly an hour. it is difficult to know where to begin. I have 2 boys, one 12 and the other 4. With my oldest, I was a single mother, working full time, and with the youngest I have been lucky enough to be a stay at home mother.



I have always worked on a premise of rewarding good behaviour, rather than punishing bad. There is also a huge amount of conversation with my children, especially my oldest. When he would come home, after having difficulty at school, we would sit and discuss what started the "issue", what the behaviour created and what could have been done to avert the issue. I worked hard to give my sons a voice, and while that is sometimes exasperating, I have found that my now 12 year old has a great sense of responsibility and what is right or wrong.



I won't say this works for everyone. I grew up an a pretty abusive and neglectful situation, and have broken a long chain of abuse that has run through my family. My methods won't work for every child. I don't expect to be able to force my views and methods on anyone else. I also don't know everything. I think this is a common fact; we all feel strongly about the ways we choose to raise our children, but we all need to realize we don't know everything.



I wonder how many calls/cases the CPA's get every day, every week, every month. I wonder how we would deal with this job and maybe we should consider this before pointing fingers and directing our anger. It is easy to sit at the sidelines and criticize, but we rarely ever have the whole story. I have dealt with the CPS regarding an anonymous complaint against his father, (we have always been a split parenting situation) and while I had some extreme distaste for his heavy handed tactics, I also knew that my son wasn't being abused, per se. There were poor choices made, and ones that I didn't agree with but what I had to do was make sure I cared for my son the best I knew how. I provide a good and loving home for my children, while at the same time instilling them with an ethical and societal sensibility and awareness. I believe strongly if we all concentrated more on our own back yards, we can still create a good and decent society.



That said, I have also heard horror stories about people investigated by these agencies and the ramifications of these investigations. It is sad to hear innocent people being persecuted, while the guilty continue on their merry way. There has to be somewhere parents can turn if wrongly investigated. But these cases, while horrible, are also a drop in the bucket when the sheer number of reports are taken into account. It's a terrible job, I wouldn't do it but it is necessary. If you do what is right, it will show.

Jennifer - posted on 03/31/2010

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Your laws in your state are being threatened. Take a look at www.parentalrights.org. if the UNCRC is ratified here then its laws supperceed our federal and state laws. Under the UNCRC it is illegal to spank. Watch out for the coming storm.

Dorothy - posted on 03/31/2010

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Different children respond to different forms of discipline; some require spankings to know you mean business and others respond well to timeouts. No two children are alike and to attack someone because they don't use your parenting style is ignorance. It also depends on the role you have given that child in the household. Our generation is so busy trying to be our kids' best friends and include them in every decision-making process within our households, its no wonder that most are disrepectful and defiant and ultimately difficult to discipline. I grew up in a household where spankings were given. I didn't need to be disciplined that way but you can be damn sure I made sure I didn't get many of them! The biggest thing is to be consistent no matter what you do; say what you mean and mean what you say - you deviate from that one principle and it's hello chaos!

Jennifer - posted on 03/31/2010

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The organization I am talking about is trying to make an ammendment to protect the children by giving parents back or ensuring their rights. Have u heard of the UNCRC? There are many of our big politicians fighting to ratify this in our country. The incident that I mentioned and many, many more are happening in countries that have already ratified this bill. They have had issues where the courts are taking children away from homes without proof of any abuse or neglect because under the UNCRC it is abuse if you force your child to go to church, home school them, don't give them access to sex ed at the age 8 and so much more. Spanking is corpral punishment and also not allowed at all with the UNCRC.
Did you even look at the website and check out what I am talking about? If you are like me and feel that as parents, we have the right to raise our children as we see fit until we have been proven abusive or neglective, then visit the website and research it for yourself www.parentalrights.org

Elizabeth - posted on 03/31/2010

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I applaud you Laura, their is nothing abusive about putting a dab of soap in your child's mouth, you are right it is usually a last resort when all else fails. As for the comment below about soap being toxic, let me tell you, it can't be that toxic, or I would not be here. Unfortunately my mother had to hide the soap from me when I was young. I really do feel that the government has taken the right away from parents to the extent that so many children are way out of control, both in their verbal communication and physical actions. I fully understand that their is a line between discipline and abuse, I do not believe in hitting a child with a foreign objects. But I do believe that we as parents should have a right to find what works in ways of discipline when it comes to our children as long as you are not crossing the line into abuse. I am so glad that I live in a state that redid their laws. They have recognized that their is nothing wrong with tapping your child on the rear end with the palm of your hand when everything else has failed.

Michal - posted on 03/31/2010

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of course there's a difference.

And parents that actually beat their children are a fraction.



The Senator's recommendations should be implemented:



1. Call for an independent audit of the Department of Family and Children’s Services

(DFCS) to expose corruption and fraud.

2. Activate immediate change. Every day that passes means more families and children

are subject to being held hostage.

3. End the financial incentives that separate families.

4. Grant to parents their rights in writing.

5. Mandate a search for family members to be given the opportunity to adopt their

own relatives.

6. Mandate a jury trial where every piece of evidence is presented before removing a

child from his or her parents.

7. Require a warrant or a positive emergency circumstance before removing children from their parents. (Judge Arthur G. Christean, Utah Bar Journal, January, 1997 reported that “except in emergency circumstances, including the need for immediate medical care, require warrants upon affidavits of probable cause before entry upon private property is permitted for the forcible removal of children from their parents.”)

8. Uphold the laws when someone fabricates or presents false evidence. If a parent

alleges fraud, hold a hearing with the right to discovery of all evidence.



CPS is corrupt, bottom line!

http://fightcps.com/pdf/TheCorruptBusine...

Julie - posted on 03/31/2010

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I think CPS workers should all be parents with plenty of on the job experience and impeccable references.

Judith - posted on 03/31/2010

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While you may not like the government 'playing the parenting police,' I wonder who else this responsibility may fall to? You're right, the safety and well-being of our children is the community's responsibility, but removal from parents needs to be legally protected. There are many who have reported being erroneously and often spitefully reported to CPS - can you imagine what would happen if these same 'concerned' community citizens were empowered to remove people's children from them, citing concerns about safety?? Our current system is far from perfect - this has never really been a funding priority (to some extent...you get what you pay for...) - but I'm sure you'd agree that at least as a community we've recognized that living in a civilized society means we have some responsibility to protect children!

Dana - posted on 03/31/2010

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But there are parents out there who actually BEAT their children and CPS is NOWHERE to be seen! What's wrong with this picture? Or they go to the house and the children say "no" and it 's never looked into again! You should be able to discipline your children but not beat them! Yes, there is a definite difference!

Judith - posted on 03/31/2010

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While I really don't want to digress into a heated debate about CPS, it's important for readers to know that the service is, in fact, highly regulated by federal and state laws. Court hearings are mandated directly following removal - the next day - and all parties have legal representation. If you don't believe that your state laws are effectively meeting children's interests for safety, permanence, and well being, as citizens, you can take action on laws you don't agree with and get them changed. With respect to transparency, every state is reviewed every four years - not the very best process, but offers some transparency and disclosure - and most states have citizen reviewers, Court Appointed Special Advocates, and others overseeing the work. Financial incentives for foster care? You're right, unfortunately it's tough to convince folks that the money needs to be invested in the front-end work, not after things fall apart.

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