Thoughts on vaccinations?

Tricia - posted on 07/06/2010 ( 270 moms have responded )

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I have been holding off on vaccinations for my daughter because I have mixed feelings. I want other mom's opinions.

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Meghan - posted on 07/11/2010

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I was reading most of the responses on here and there seem to be 2 trends. 1st trend: From Amanda "Parents who decide to not vaccinate their children, are endangering their children, as well as the general public." How are we endangering the public? If vaccinations actually work, and you have them all, where is the danger? From Amy "Why take the risk that they are going to be infected with something that you could of prevented." Why is that a bad thing? Having your body being infected and forcing the immune system to fight it off is a very natural thing. My question would be "Why would inject your child with a mixture of ingredients including, but not limited to, Formaldehyde, Aspartame, Aluminum Hydroxide, Aluminum Phosphate and Mercury? Something that the human population has learned throughout the years, and will continue to learn: Nature is always correct. From Amanda "Holding out on chicken pox vaccine, (WILL) cause your boy to get very sick, possiblely end up in the hospital or worse." I work in heathcare. Chicken Pox becomes dangerous only on immune-compromised patients and adults. By stating that if you don't do this, you child could DIE. Thats just a fear tactic. Your child could die by walking down some stairs but you're not going to force her to wear a helmet for the rest of her life, just in case.
2nd trend: from Jessica "My last three children were born at home, none of them even saw a doctor until my 2 yr old got an ear infection...... Our kids are also in school and are healthier and miss less school then their classmates. Now, I am not saying that vaccinated children are sickly and unhealthy, I am just sharing my experience." From Rebecca " A lot of my friends have chosen to vaccinate their children and they are always sick! My son is very very healthy." From Jennifer "You have to do what you feel is right for you and your children. You might feel better about your decision with more research."
We have not vaccinated our boys, and will not. While I was pregnant with our 1st son we researched it a lot. My husband was not vaccinated until he went to college, so he was against doing it. To this day I still have yet to see him go to a doctor. I work in healthcare as did my family so I was for vaccinations. When we did the research I changed my mind. This is often the case. A few facts I discovered about vaccinations.
*The number of vaccinations we give children has doubled in the last quarter of a century.
*At the time vaccinations were introduced the number of people being infected with these diseases was already diminishing due to increased cleanliness, better eating habits, and daily hygiene.
*From the CDC website, statistics show a child is more likely to die from the DPT shot, then actually pertussis (whooping cough).
*Also from the CDC, a child is more likely to get the measles having been vaccinated then if not.
*Children that have been vaccinated are more likely to become seriously ill in the months following vaccinations. This is thought to be caused because the vaccinations suppress the immune system to where it (on some children, not all) is unable to fight off the common cold, which could turn in to something serious like pneumonia.
*Of course if a parent chooses not to vaccinate their child they must take care of them in other ways. Feed them right, a body can not work well with out the proper food. Teach them good hygiene. And keep them away from sickly people.
I am anti-vaccine, but I certainly do not look down on the people that do give vaccinations to their children. I expect the same respect back. The only thing I would like to see changed is that parents do the research. Many people vaccinate just because its "whats done". Even though, in my opinion, its completely unnecessary.

Miranda - posted on 07/10/2010

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The fact is, those of us who choose to vaccinate our children are protecting the children of those of you who choose not to vaccinate. Our children create a buffer zone for your kids from deadly and crippling diseases, which vaccinations have nearly eliminated from our society. I'm sure that parents of previous generations, who watched half or more of their kids die from diseases we can prevent now, would tell you that you owe your kids their best chance of survival.
Did you know that children who are unvaccinated may be vulnerable to disease if they come into contact with it, and they can then spread it among kids who have not had their full regimen of vaccine yet? Like innocent babies? I think a responsible parent would not advocate for skipping vaccinations, saying that their kids are "doing just fine." It is because of those of us who are responsible that your kids can go out into society unprotected from disease and you can still tuck them in every night, healthy and safe.

Jodi - posted on 07/09/2010

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www.nvic.org is actually an anti vaccine site, so while it may be informative, it is also very one sided, so you should also be reviewing other materials.



There is risk with every vaccination, and the key is to weigh up the risk of the vaccination vs. the risk of the disease. In a healthy society, where the diseases for which we vaccinate, the risk of the disease is extremely minor, more and more parents are now choosing not to vaccinate. Unfortunately, this is leading to more prevalence of the diseases. If EVERY parent chose not to vaccinate, the risks of the disease would actually outweigh the vaccination. I don't know if that makes sense, but let's just say that if we allow many of these diseases to again become common childhood diseases in our society, our children WILL be at risk. So it is our responsibility as parents to consider vaccination with that in mind.



If I could also please address the autism issue. Correlation does not mean proof of anything. Correlation could mean anything. If the MMR vaccination is correlated with autism, how on earth do you explain that even though vaccination rates continue to fall, autism rates are continuing to rise? I'll tell you how the autism rate is rising....the autism spectrum disorders was expanded. So, by expanding the spectrum, it is also going to show an increase in the number of cases.



Just keep in mind, that continuing to perpetuate the link between autism and vaccinations is ALSO hindering finding the REAL cause of autism. Because this is NOT the real cause, wouldn't we all like to find out what is?



Vaccinations have nothing to do with other illnesses. That's great that your kids are never sick. But there is no proof whatsoever that this has anything to do with the fact that you choose not to vaccinate. That is pure propoganda.

Jessica - posted on 07/07/2010

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Me and my sister had the chicken pox vaccine and still got the chicken pox, my stepfather was vaccinated as a child and then got them as an adult, vaccines aren't 100%. Now I am not doubting the fact that if vaccines were never introduced that we wouldn't have eradicated several diseases but I do think that the potential side effects outweigh the risks.

I have five children and they are all vaccine free. My last three children were born at home, none of them even saw a doctor until my 2 yr old got an ear infection that we found out was due to mold growing in our house. Since we have been out of that situation he has been fine. Our pediatrician knows where we stand and treats us just fine when we visit. Our kids are also in school and are healthier and miss less school then their classmates. Now, I am not saying that vaccinated children are sickly and unhealthy, I am just sharing my experience.

Oh and so everyone knows, I do work in the healthcare field and I am very aware of the pros and cons of not vaccinating my children. It is a choice I have made and I am glad that I have.

MJ - posted on 07/13/2010

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This is a personal decision and nobody on here should be trying to force others to vaccinate!! Do you notice all the non-vaccinating mom's encouraging others to research not trying to to guilt others into making the same decision as themselves. Unlike the vaccinating ones who are trying manipulate others to do the same, all the while using fear mongering tactics.

The decision is truly personal, be informed, research, research, research. You'll only have a clear conscience if you truly believe in your own decision.

Good luck to everyone, it's one of the most difficult decisions in life!

Love & Peace of mind to all you mama's on here:)

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Katherine - posted on 07/14/2010

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Truth: Just some thoughts on Hep B :)

[Here is a vaccine even though they haven't proven hep B is caused by a virus (ref & see see), that can cause death, acute neuropathy, neuritis, myelitis, vasculitis, thrombocytopenia, gastrointestinal disease, multiple sclerosis (ref), and arthritis (see). Given to babies (ref) even though the main risk is for needle using drug addicts and the sexually promiscuous. A hep B vaccine was behind the 'AIDS' outbreak (ref), and used to make people (gay men mostly) appear HIV positive (ref & see), which gives you some idea about the nature of the vaccinists as does the suppression of vitamin C (see) & Oxygen therapy (see) cure for viral hepatitis.]


http://www.whale.to/a/cdc.html

http://www.nvic.org/nvic-archives/pressr...

http://www.whale.to/vaccines/hepatitis.h...

Fiona - posted on 07/14/2010

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I'm an autism researcher and I wanted to comment on some of what's been said about vaccines and autism.

It's been mentioned that the rate of autism fell in Japan after the MMR vaccine was withdrawn. This isn't true, it actually continued to rise in line with the rest of the world, showing that MMR is not responsible for the increase in rates of autism spectrum disorders. Rates of autism with regression remained the same before, during, and after the use of MMR in Japan.

http://www.medicine.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/b...

The increase in rates of autism is thought to be, at least partly, due to better recognition (cases may have been defined differently in the past, such as childhood schizophrenia), and a widening of the definition of autism. Whereas it was once the case that 'autism' meant narrowly defined autism, it is now often used to refer to a whole range of 'autism spectrum disorders'. Including Asperger Syndrome, atypical autism, etc in the category of autism means that the rates of autism appear to go up.

My 5 month old has had all his vaccinations so far, and will continue to have them. I missed some vaccines as a child and as a result had just about everything going (measles, rubella, chicken pox, scarlet fever, glandular fever... I was perfectly healthy apart from all that LOL). Some of those were horrendous.. was hallucinating and sleep walking with measles... and wouldn't wish any of it on anyone else!

Holli - posted on 07/14/2010

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I can understand why it is such a scary topic what with Autism on the rise and with many people pointing their fingers at vaccinations. I will approach the subject from the Autism side and the non Autism side.

I am the mother of an Autistic child. She has A-typical Autism and Sensory Perception Disorder. She developed Autism because she got a severe case of chicken pox with such a high fever that the lowest we could get it WITH Tylenol was 103. She had not yet had the vaccination as she was too young. I have since done TONS of research on Autism, but will list only a few things...

There are a handful of children who have developed Autism after getting vaccinations, but these children have enzyme issues that do not allow their bodies to filter out toxins and it is not the processing of the vaccinations that is making them sick, it's the virus themselves. They have found that the siblings that have the same issue but don't get vaccinated usually end up developing Autism as well after a family vacation or such after being in a poluted city or drinking not so great water. Some doctors have said until they can find a way to fix the enzyme issues, those children will get Autism, so it's better to keep them healthy.

If you had a difficult pregnancy or there was anything in the delivery that could have cut off her oxygen supply, it increases the child's chance of Autism.

A specialist told us there are over 200 types of Autism, and they are thinking about even adding some types of seizure disorders into the mix. The increasing number is partially because of children and adults who have been diagnosed for many years with ADHD or a psychological disorder are recently being correctly diagnosed with a form of Autism. The other reason is because (for example) you have 2,000 people with a brain disorder and it is now classified as Autism. So the number just jumped 2,000 that year more than it usually would have. I was also told that since they know what they are looking for, they are easier to diagnose instead of labeling as crazy or strange. (I know I can certainly think of some children I went to school with who should have had the diagnosis).

The non-Autism side of vaccinations. I have worked in the health care profession for years. One of the things that isn't publicized is since people have not been vaccinating their children again, the mortality rate of babies and children of "dead diseases" is on the rise. There are more children in the hospitals with whoopin cough, measles, and rumors of polio (haven't seen it myself). I know a few years back in the NW they had to close down a school or two due to a measles outbreak. These are diseases that were under control in the US, but with people traveling in and out of the country, there is no way to completely kill the disease other than to deny them a host.

On the flip side, if not vaccinated and your child has a very healty immune system, they can become carriers. I know that because of this there are many parents who refuse to let their children play with other children who don't have vaccinations. The worst carrier in history would be Typhoid Mary, but I was a carrier of strep throat once and I felt horrible when I realized what was happening with my friends. Of course I got treated as if I was sick and was no longer a carrier.

If you are worried about reactions you can ask to space the vaccinations out. If your doctor does not understand your concerns, then you don't have a good doctor. When you do reasearch, you may want to go to a medical library or make sure you go to reputable websites. There were many sites I found on vaccinations that swore they were 100% factual and the only thing that was factual on it was they signed their name... if that was even true. Sadly, the internet is full of opinions and you will have to sort fact from fiction to find the truth.

I wish you lots of luck, and speak with your pediatrician. A good pediatrician will sit down with you and listen and will discuss the risks vs benefits. If your ped won't listen to you, you don't have a very good patient/doctor relationship and you should find a new one.

Jodi - posted on 07/14/2010

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OK, ladies, thank you for your input. This discussion has become a little heated, and I think the OP has received plenty of opinions to help her with her decision, so I am locking this thread.

Jodi Adams
WtCoM Moderator

[deleted account]

I have had my son vacinnated. Over here in the UK vaccinations seem to be very different from the US and for one we don't have a chicken pox vaccine. Why risk your child getting a disease which can be easily prevented by vaccinating them?

Melissa - posted on 07/14/2010

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I believe anyone in my position would have been offended by that comment. So I shared my opinion!

Ok, for now on I will allow others to belittle parents who question vaccines without standing up to them.

So no one will be offended or even question when I say
"The vaccines your baby/child get are way worse than any side effects from the natural disease! They could die from some of these shots.........enough said!"

I'll leave it at that... I don't wish to hurt anyone's feelings!

Truth - posted on 07/14/2010

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Well, then, Melissa, if you are offended, take it to that person privately. There is enough tension in the discussion already and personal tension needs to be kept private.

Melissa - posted on 07/14/2010

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Hmm... I am sorry you feel that way. I found what she said to be very rude and demanding... if you are going to share your opinion especially when topping it with "enough said" then you better back it up with some reasons and some facts. Or else people are going to take it the wrong way and be offended like I was!

Melissa - posted on 07/14/2010

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//LOL, I certainly am not ignorant, chicken pox is one thing (I had it when I was a child and it is not that bad) but what I'm talking about is whooping cough and polio etc.//
Classic ignorant response "Chickenpox is not that bad" when that's what our grandparents used to say about Measles (which nowadays, we all are brainwashed into believing is a deadly disease) so when does it stop? Fevers can be deadly for some people if it gets high enough, should we vaccinate every time we get a fever? or just vaccinate a dozen times throughout our whole lives 'just in case we get a fever"? Whooping cough, this is one that I get so sick of hearing about when provaxers put the blame on unvaccinating members... read above, great info for you on Pertussis.

//Have you ever seen/heard someone esp a baby with whooping cough?//
Yes I have, my brother. Have I heard about children getting pertussis? Quite a few times. When you are part of a group of unvaccinating friends/families, you see many of these diseases come and go without a hitch! Yes some can die from whooping cough, but you cannot prove that it's the unvaccinated that gave it to them. Please see above!

//It's horrible! babies die from this disease, and the worst thing is, because people stopped immunising their babies against it it has come back//
Do you have any actual stats that prove this statement? Again, see above for more info on Pertussis!

//adults are getting it and then giving it to kids. It's a disease we almost got rid of//
Wait a minute, these parents aren't vaccinated for it? I guess we know why they infected their children- can no longer blame anyone else! We almost got rid of it? Last I checked this disease fluctuates every couple of years. What year exactly are you referring to that this disease was almost eradicated?

//I was simply giving my opinion, I didn't call anyone stupid or ignorant, and don't speak down to me or anyone else and call me Missy!!! So So unnecessary!!!!!!!!//

Let me repeat what you said :"The diseases your baby/child could get are way worse than any side effects from the vaccinations! They could die from some of the diseases.........enough said!"
That is saying there is no room for educated responses because YOU SAID SO! That's not being ignorant or talking down to people? Perhaps I over reacted, but that's what I got out of you saying "enough said" especially when you did NOT give any reasons or facts behind your statement! It sounded rude to me!

Truth - posted on 07/14/2010

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Amanda, You, as an adult do not have any more immunity to those childhood diseases than a newborn baby does. Most of those immunizations that you recieved as a kid - that protection is long gone.

I had to be re-vaccinated for the Measles and German Measles when I was going through Nursing school 20 years ago.= the summer before I began my Pediatric rotation. It has been suggested that I get the chicken pox vaccine because I have absolutely NO antibodies to the virus.

As to the Hepatitis vaccines, you can now be vaccinated for 3 strains of Hepatits now A,B, and C.

As to hepatits - no one can guarantee that they will NEVER come in contact with an INFECTED person's BLOOD or BODY FLUIDS - ie SALIVA. If your kids play sports, they are at risk, if your kid gets into a fight and gets another kids blood or spit on them, in a cut or in their mouths or eyes, they are at risk.

Hepatitis is a silent killer. You won't even know that a person has it unless they are obviously very ill. And it is uncurable. It destroys the liver and the only treatment for that is liver transplant.

This is not a scare tactic, it is a hard cruel fact of life in this world today.

Selena - posted on 07/14/2010

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Oh and my baby has been fully immunised and has great health, never had an infection, no probs at all. All the babies in my mothers group and the children in my family have been fully immunised and they too are all healthy as could be!

Selena - posted on 07/14/2010

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LOL, I certainly am not ignorant, chicken pox is one thing (I had it when I was a child and it is not that bad) but what I'm talking about is whooping cough and polio etc. Have you ever seen/heard someone esp a baby with whooping cough? It's horrible! babies die from this disease, and the worst thing is, because people stopped immunising their babies against it it has come back, adults are getting it and then giving it to kids. It's a disease we almost got rid of.
I was simply giving my opinion, I didn't call anyone stupid or ignorant, and don't speak down to me or anyone else and call me Missy!!! So So unnecessary!!!!!!!!

Selena - posted on 07/14/2010

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The diseases your baby/child could get are way worse than any side effects from the vaccinations! They could die from some of the diseases.........enough said!

Katherine - posted on 07/14/2010

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April:

Pertussis is endemic, it is always present with a cyclical pattern of occurrence, peaks every 2-5 years. The vaccine does not prevent infection or transmission but may result in a particular person having less severe clinical symptoms. 80 percent of the time an infant gets pertussis from a family member and 50 percent of the time they get it from their parents. Both my 2yo and I got it while I was pregnant with my second child and we were both vaxed for it.

Infants under six months are most at risk from pertusiss because they cannot effectively expell the mucous and there is a greater danger of it getting into their lungs and causing pneumonia.

But it gets better. This is what the CDC tells doctors about why the new vaccine is needed:

Pertussis, an acute, infectious cough illness, remains endemic in the United States despite routine childhood pertussis vaccination for more than half a century and high coverage levels in children for more than a decade¹

Translation: vaccinating babies hasn’t worked.

Let’s sum up the two positions:

To Parents of Babies: Vaccinate your baby or pertussis will “come back”, and we’ll see 200,000 cases a year once again.

To the Press, Physicians and Teens: Whew! Aren’t you glad we figured out how to make a vaccine for older children and adults because we have over 600,000 cases a year, and pertussis has “remained endemic” no matter how many babies we vaccinated with a whopping 5 shot series of an extremely reactive vaccine.

Reassuring, isn’t it, to know that the Centers for Disease Control is in control of their numbers and never the twain shall meet.

Melissa - posted on 07/14/2010

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//Unfortunately, we really do not have any way of knowing whether those same infants/children would have been lost to SIDS or diagnosed with autism even if they had not been vaccinated. There is just no way to prove this correlation//
~There is a very good doctor that has done some really interesting research into what causes SIDS/Autism and more and it has to do with 6th/7th Cranial Nerve Palsys. In other words, in almost all cases of SIDS and Autism alike, you can see these physical signs of damage being done BEFORE they die of SIDS or regress into Autism. (if you are interested in finding out more, please feel free to ask as it's complicated and I won't bother putting it here) But you are absolutely right, most people do not have the knowledge to tell when their child is susceptible to SIDS or any other injury. That's why when I see my vaccinated child struggle with her health, and I see my unvaccinated child (and my friends unvaccinated children) all have impeccable strong immune systems, never sick, never had Tylenol and never suffered an ear infection; I base my decision on experience rather than fear and brainwashing from my doctor. I believe what I see with my own eyes!

Leilani - posted on 07/14/2010

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Wow....I understand what you are going through...I myself have felt the fear tactics and pressure but it always seemed to be from a one sided perspective (the educated people didn't do a full research). To make a decision, if you can be prepared for scenarios without fear or regret...that's a tough one isn't it. I was scared that I was doing the wrong thing. Why am I no longer scared? Because I know in my heart that I am making my children immune system the strongest it can be. If a disease occurs, I have steps to take to combat it so there won't be a fatality or serious effect if and only if.... they get the disease. I am aware of herd immunity but my knowledge supports the idea that even vaccinated people are spreaders. Trust research?....you can't...I have heard that Dr.s unfortunately can be bought to sign a study from lucrative pharmaceuticals especially straight out of expensive medical school. They can do research and only choose the studies that favor their outcome. I know nurses who feel like when they are taught...it is one sided and feel like they are being brain washed. So what do you do? A mumps outbreak occurred in the news and 50% vaccinated got the mumps, they obviously weren't immune. No serious effects or deaths reported. To get statistics is also hard because linking one thing to another without getting sued...no one wants to diagnose. Fear....to coerce...Yikes. It just takes one effected person to affect others. There is no guarantee that your child will become immune with a vaccine after pumping straight into the blood stream things that don't belong. Heavy metals....not everyone is the same....not everyone's body will recognize foreign and toxic chemicals and purge....heavy metals and surrounding Wi-fi and emf radiation sound to me like something that would prevent neuron transmitters from closing...something my naturopath and George Carlos believe to be helping autistic like responses. Who knows maybe they are wrong, it could be a whole bunch of reasons mixed together...I am fully vaccinated...but the things that were put inside might still be there....and they might not be human....they could decide to cause a problem mixed with the air pollution, pesticide intake, plastic exposure etc. I have heard that sometimes we are born with complete immunity to certain diseases...maybe that is what is helping some of our young ones from problems. I also learned in school that our body has every single cure inside. I got sick, so I no longer trust like I used to. I used to get no side effects to drugs but it was the drugs over time that hurt me. It opened my world to a different side, a preventative side. I also heard from a doctor who watched responses to vaccines that the eyes will show signs of a stroke right after being injected. hoax or not, I feel good about my decision. As for dealing with being responsible for spreading a disease, I guarantee that my kids aren't the ones who created the disease and if other children get it, prove to me that my child is the one who gave it to them. I am not irresponsible, I am not ignorant....I care otherwise I wouldn't be sharing this with you. I have been on both sides. Most who believe in the vaccine feel that the vaccine works and I am sure that it does...sometimes, most of the time, definitely not all the time? It has been mentioned that disease rises and falls naturally and it was on the down trend when vaccines were introduced. So it might have been cleanliness responsible for disease decline. I have read the books recommended by other posts and a few others. I started reading the nurses textbooks also. I was in the health industry previously and each sales representative would have statistics that their product was the best....how is that possible...which is the truth? My doctor told me the amount of heavy metal is the same amount found in a tuna can. Guess what, my children will only eat tiny tuna not the large ones that have been around for so long the metals build up in them. It doesn't make it acceptable. I am not criticizing anyone, just sharing information that helped me make a decision so I really hope I don't offend anyone. I know talking like this is like talking politics or religion....Egg shells, egg shells...

Deborah - posted on 07/14/2010

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@phyllis

When my mum was having me post natal depression wasn't heard of either... doesn't mean it didn't exist, just that they hadn't recognised it as an illness at that stage or put a name to it. My gran can remember people who were told to wise up and get on with it, who now knowing about post natal depression says thats clearly what it was.

Just because no-one talked about it doesn't mean it didn't exist. I'm sure theres many an illness that just popped out of nowhere because someone decided that enough people were taking ill with it that they better put a name to it. Just because this happened to co-incide with a specific injection doesn't make the injection responsible.

I'm not saying the injection is responsible or isn't, but without a crystal ball its impossible to say that if this child without adhd had been injected they've have contracted it, or that this child with adhd wouldn't have got it if they hadn't been injected.

Until time machines are invented we will never know for sure.

Olivia - posted on 07/14/2010

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Personally my daughter is 6 months and has not yet been vaccinated. I will start her vaccines soon but only a select few that I think are necessary. I have done plenty of research and after reading all of the post below I am pro both sides.

I am breast feeding my daughter so she is relying on my immune system for herself. We live in the U.S and she is not exposed to children and we live in a clean environment. So at this time I am in no rush to get her vaccinated. But my family lives in France so we will be traveling so I know if I wasn't my daughter to be free willed and travel wherever she wants there are some vaccines she MUST have.

When I do get her vaccinated which I will start within the next month or two It will be single dose of vaccine or maybe two at a time. No cocktails and the minimum of necessary vaccines. Nothing new and improving still, that is just scary.

I am pro the vaccines that have almost eliminated diseases. Yes vaccines are not 100% but they minimize the risk of your child getting infected if they where administered properly. I also believe that some vaccines are just ridiculous.

Follow your gut what feels right to you and don't just let the doctor stick your baby cause "he knows whats best" most of them now a days just want to get paid. Talk with them and come up with a regimen together. Vaccine regimens shouldn't be the same for all kids because all kids are not the same. And that is my opinion.

Ashley - posted on 07/14/2010

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I have not vaccinated fully. I am going with my intuition on this one. My daughter just turned 3 and she has had probably 5 shots total. I will get some done so I don't have to fight too hard if she ever enters the public school system. I feel best waiting until their bodies are larger and more capable of handling the reactions. I think that there are some ridiculous vaccines but I would rather protect my children as they grow older and are more likely to come into contact with other kids who don't have their vaccines.
Thank heavens for vaccines, but I really hate the idea of putting all of that in a little itty bitty infants body. Also, getting 6 different vaccines at once seems wrong to me.

Courtney - posted on 07/14/2010

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My first thought after reading this thread was to each their own but then I thought...what if every parent decided not to vaccinate? I think that would equal disaster...vaccinations were invented for a good reason and has made the world a safer place to live.

Amie - posted on 07/14/2010

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Unfortunately, we really do not have any way of knowing whether those same infants/children would have been lost to SIDS or diagnosed with autism even if they had not been vaccinated. There is just no way to prove this correlation.

[deleted account]

Those talking about chickenpox....if you had them as a child you can get them when you are an adult.....called "shingles". (Caused by the varicella-zoster virus)

To the lady whose 15 yr old has ADD/ADHD.....isn't it amazing that back in the 60's nobody ever HEARD of ADD/ADHD? Kids who couldn't pay attention were just rambunctious little kids! And THEY survived.

Melissa - posted on 07/14/2010

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not a good analogy, by putting your child into a carseat, you are not lowering their immune system, or injecting toxins into their bloodstream.
Now, if we saw COUNTLESS children die as a direct result of putting them in a car seat... then that would make for a good argument. Not the case. But with vaccines, we hear more and more about healthy advanced happy children dieing or becoming disabled right after their shots. That's something not to be ignored! IMO

Alice - posted on 07/14/2010

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My daughter went from being a chubby 6month old to a lactose intolerant baby that would vomit clumps of flem the size of my hand 2 - 3 times a week. We had issues keeping weigh on her and it took years for it to stop. Doctors had no answers and it was homiopathic medicine that stopped the reaction. I have very bad allergies and so does my partner. We have not surprisingly decided not to immunise our younger child.

Bailey - posted on 07/14/2010

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@Deborah, in addition to those that you mentioned, it is recommended that American children also receive shots for hepatitis B, and chicken pox. I've sure you've probably heard, but there is even a vaccine against the STD HPV now, and that vaccine has reportedly caused paralysis, and even death in previously healthy teenage girls. Scary stuff.

Melissa - posted on 07/14/2010

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//The link between autism and vaccinations has NEVER been proven//

Sure, just ask the hundreds of thousands of parents who witnessed losing their kids RIGHT after the shots (whether through SIDS or Autism). But then again, parents don't have anything to gain by telling their story so perhaps we should just chalk those true stories up as "anecdotal" and keep blindly injecting chemicals into our kids!

Just a question tho, how many 'anecdotal' cases do we need to hear before we see the truth in them?

Cindy - posted on 07/14/2010

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Yes those things can but if you take care of yourself than you can live a very very long time I don't know about you but I want to be around to meet my grandchildren

Deborah - posted on 07/14/2010

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One thing I dont get which is obviously an area thing. I see posts saying that 1 week old babies are getting vaccinated and that there are 46 injections by the time they reach kindergarden. Now either this is exaggerated or things are done WAY different in USA.

Here in the UK my daughter received her first injection when she was 8 weeks, this was 1 injection with covered diptheria, tetanus, whooping cough, hib, polio, pnwumoxoccal.
at 12 weeks she got another injection which covered diptheria, tetanus, whopping cough, hib, polio, meningitis
16 weeks - 1 injection - diphtheria, tetanus, whopping cough, hib, polion, meningitis, pneumococcal
12 months 1 injection - hib and meningitis booster
15 months - 2 injections - measles, mumps, rubella, pneumococcal
4 years - (haven't had this yet so don't know how many injections, guessing 1) diptheria, tetanus, whooping cough, polio, MMR
14 years - (guessing 1) diptheria, tetanus, polio

Now thats a total of 8 injections from birth to finishing school at 16, which covers 36 things (taking MMR as 3 and counting each seperate treatment different (ie 4 diphtheria) so where the hell is 46 before kindergarden coming from?! I assume kindergarden is preschool here, so your kid is about 4? so that would mean here they would have had 7 injections for 35 things, assuming that they had the injection for 4 year olds... what else are you guys getting injected for?

Katherine - posted on 07/14/2010

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Unfortunately, that's also not true. Running out the door, so don't have time to put in a link atm, will try to when I get home.

Amie - posted on 07/14/2010

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The benefits of vaccinating your infant/child FAR outweigh any "potential risks"! I have had all 3 of my children vaccinated and they are all up-to-date including my Husband and myself! I feel is is very important and prevents very serious diseases from making a comeback in our society.
I am thankful that there is now a vaccination for chicken pox, as well, a disease we had to experience as children.

The link between autism and vaccinations has NEVER been proven, so I do not even consider that a potential risk. There has been medical research done that has disproven that old theory.
All 3 of my cheldren are perfectly healthy and normal after having received ALL of their vaccinations. That is enough proof for me since they are 12 1/2 years old, 10 1/2 years old and 7 1/2 years old. None of them have autism or any other disabilities. :)

Terri - posted on 07/14/2010

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To me it is like the seatbelt/Carseat issue!!!! People die from using them in some accidents, BUT far less die using them than those who do not! they save more lives than not!!!!

Katherine - posted on 07/14/2010

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Two polio vaccines are used throughout the world to combat poliomyelitis (or polio). The first was developed by Jonas Salk and first tested in 1952. Announced to the world by Salk on April 12, 1955, it consists of an injected dose of inactivated (dead) poliovirus. An oral vaccine was developed by Albert Sabin using attenuated poliovirus. Human trials of Sabin's vaccine began in 1957 and it was licensed in 1962.

Salk was the inventor of the inactivated poliovirus vaccine and HE is the one who made the statement. This information is quite easily found.

Melissa - posted on 07/14/2010

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Same with Measles. Pre vaccination stats show that you had OVER 99% chance of getting over it without any complications. What we hear is that MILLIONS of people "worldwide" die of measles. Why do you think that is? Why don't we hear the truth about how Measles affects us in DEVELOPED countries? It's because people would question how a disease that over 99% of people can recover from is being exploited as being a "deadly disease"... people with common sense would see that if you had less than 1% of being harmed by any of these diseases then you would risk the disease over the risks of vaccination (mock immunity). Pharma/government does not want that! It's big business getting people sick and keeping that way!

[deleted account]

//In 1977, Dr Jonas Salk who developed the first polio vaccine, testified along with other scientists, that mass inoculation against polio was the cause of most polio cases throughout the USA since 1961. (Science 4/4/77 "Abstracts" )//
-which is exactly why the polio vaccine is a dead polio virus. back in 1977 (heck, back in 1997) it was still a live virus. The kid would then leave the live virus in his diaper, dad would change the diaper, not wash his hands, and get the disease. The new dead polio vaccine doesn't run that risk.

Terri - posted on 07/14/2010

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as a mom of a child who had a reaction to the pertutinuss, I can say yes it is scary! BUT, I have 4 children and only one had a reaction. Also the benifits out way the risks for a larger number of kids. If I was to ever have more I would still have those children have them as well!!! My Dr told me it was a rare thing to happen and in his career as a peditrician he had only seen it happen twice. He was a much older man. She my daughter also didnt have terrible ending as people tend to think or read about! She is now 28, graduated from high school when she was 14, college when she was 18 with her first degree and at 24 with her second! she has two beautiful perfect children!!!this reaction didnt stop her in anyway!!!! I would say do it, just watch pay attention to changes and call the dr when you need reasurance about those changes you see just like with cold, fevers and the such! GOOD LUCK....

April - posted on 07/14/2010

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Katherine, I did not know of that cycle but am searching it now on the web. Thanks for that.

As it stands, we only vaccinate the baby with what we think she may be at risk for. The hospital vaccinated her for Hep B at birth and we probably could sue them since we didn't sign a consent form and there is practically a zero risk factor for her to contract it...

But I digress... Pertussis cycle.... checking it out. Thanks!

Melissa - posted on 07/14/2010

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//GIRL STOP BEING FOOLISH!!!! GET THAT BABY HER SHOTS CAUSE U CANT GIVE THEM TO HER URSELF, SHE NEEDS THOSE SHOTS TO KEEP HER HEALTHY FROL SMALLPOX, MEASLES, MUMPS, ETC//

Yes Tricia, clearly you should ignore the useful info above because this person says so!

Katherine - posted on 07/14/2010

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Shingles, or herpes zoster, is a common illness that strikes about 1 million Americans each year, about
half of whom are 60 years of age and older. Shingles is caused by the varicella-zoster virus, the same
virus that causes chickenpox. When people are first infected with the varicella-zoster virus, usually as
children, they get chickenpox. Years or decades later, the virus can reactivate and cause shingles. Anyone
who has had chickenpox is at risk of shingles. Shingles is associated with normal aging and with
anything that weakens the immune system such as certain medications, cancers, or infections, but it can
also occur in healthy children and younger persons.

This means that your chances of getting shingles after having chicken pox is less than 1% (rough estimate of US population is 300,000,000 / 100% = 3,000,000 so if 3 million Americans were affected by it, 1% of the US population would be affected)

Katherine - posted on 07/14/2010

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April - Are you aware that whooping cough (pertussis) has a naturally occurring spike every 3-5 years that is not at all related to vaccination rates?

Katherine - posted on 07/14/2010

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Seeing as smallpox doesn't exist (except in 2 laboratories 1 in Russia, 1 in US and they REFUSE to destroy it...wonder why) and the smallpox vaccine is no longer given, she can't really protect her child from getting smallpox by getting the smallpox vaccine, now can she?

The report of Dr. William Farr, (1807 – 1883), Compiler of Statistics of the Registrar General of London and considered to be the first developer of vital statistics, stated: “Smallpox attained its maximum mortality after vaccination was introduced. The mean annual mortality for 10,000 population from 1850 to 1869 was at the rate of 2.04, whereas after compulsory vaccination, in 1871 the death rate was 10.24. In 1872 the death rate was 8.33 and this after the most laudable efforts to extend vaccination by legislative enactments.”

The idea of re-naming a disease to suit the records is not new. Hadwen also said in his address, that in 1886, although there were 275 cases of smallpox, only one vaccinated child died. In addition, 93 children died of chicken pox. Given the mild nature of chicken pox and the fact that few deaths from it had previously been recorded, this diagnosis is highly unlikely.

The re-naming practice continues today. In 1967 the World Health Organization (WHO) began a campaign to eradicate smallpox, a campaign that was carefully monitored. In 1979 Arita and Breman wrote “Interhuman transmission of smallpox, which continued for more than 3000 years, appears to have come to an end on 26 October 1977, when the world’s last known case developed his rash in Merca, Somalia.”

http://medicalvoices.org/vaccination/art...

Good article about smallpox.

April - posted on 07/14/2010

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My husband and I agonized over this decision the entire time I was pregnant. We did tons of research, read books, read extreme opinions on both ends of the spectrum, the works.

What we ended up doing was a different vaccine schedule so her little body didn't get bombarded with so many shots, chemicals, and pieces/parts of viruses. We spread them out so that she has received a shot about once a month for the past 6 months and will get more at 7, 9, and 12 months. Most importantly to us, we are holding off on the MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) vaccine until she is 2 just so her body has more time to really grow and develop its own immune system.

One of the big things that we were able to do that not every mom can is that we breastfed her until nearly 6 months. I truly believe that we amped up her immune system naturally by that one simple thing and we are being oh-so-careful by spacing out the vaccines.

Some of our friends and family (all on one side of this fence or the other) have questioned the "cruelty" of giving her a shot every month but I would much rather have peace of mind knowing she is both vaccinated AND has had time for her body to recover or tell us something is wrong.

Don't get me wrong -- I fret every time we go in for another vaccine because I really believe there is something to the claims of vaccines going wrong (not necessarily autism...). However, we've chosen to be extra-cautious, get the vaccines, and watch her closely to ensure her complete health.

Here in Michigan it has turned out well, especially since our area is seeing a spike in cases of whooping cough, which has a vaccine in the DTaP (diptheria, tetanus, and pertussis - whooping cough) shot.

Because she is too young to be fully vaccinated against some things like whooping cough, we chose to get booster shots for our family (my husband and I and my 15-year-old daughter) so we couldn't pass anything along to her even if we had no symptoms.

Good luck to you. What works for your family is what makes the choice right.

Melissa - posted on 07/14/2010

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//Melissa I would do your research on Chickenpox... once you have had it you are in fact not immune, you are less likely to catch it again.//
I would not talk about something unless I am fully educated on the subject. I am fully aware that you CAN still catch chickenpox. What I said was catching it naturally gives you the BEST protection. Like you said, you are LESS likely to get it again (until you are a senior) and you have over 99% chance to get over them without any complications. That is a documented fact. There is risk with everything in life... getting these benign diseases are less of a risk when most of them you have over 99% chance of getting over it is my opinion!

LAQUETTA - posted on 07/14/2010

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GIRL STOP BEING FOOLISH!!!! GET THAT BABY HER SHOTS CAUSE U CANT GIVE THEM TO HER URSELF, SHE NEEDS THOSE SHOTS TO KEEP HER HEALTHY FROL SMALLPOX, MEASLES, MUMPS, ETC

Melissa - posted on 07/14/2010

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//Back when we were children in the 50's and 60's there was no "do research" and we turned out alright having the vaccines. Does anybody remember "polio"? Funny how you don't hear that anymore...was it a Thanks to "polio sugar" that we had to take to keep us from getting it? Nowdays we have so many "environmentalists" and it makes you wonder if knowledge is really such a good thing? They sprayed every Tuesday in the neighborhood I lived in for mosquitoes - we kids would run and hide behind a tree.....duh that is where the spray was aimed up in the trees....did we have autism? breathing problems? anything weird? because of the spray? Think of the farmers who lived to be in their nineties who ate 4 eggs for breakfast and bacon everyday or drank moonshine every night....yet lived to be a ripe old age. You can research your ass off and still it is your decision whether to put your child at risk by having or not having the vaccines. I still believe not having children vaccinated (unless there is an existing physical or mental problem with said child) keeps the old diseases at bay. Opinions are like noses we all have one//

*Back when we were children in the 50's and 60's there was no "do research" and we turned out alright having the vaccines.
~Is that so? I didn't realize that you received 46 shots by time you reached Kindergarten? No wait a minute, you didn't get that many shots as a child-nor were any of them COMBINED (therefore needing added preservatives like mercury, aluminum, formaldehyde, etc) So really that statement doesn't pertain to the children today!

*Does anybody remember "polio"? Funny how you don't hear that anymore.
~Yea I do remember Polio. Funny how almost 100 MILLION people were affected by tainted Polio vaccines. The only cases within the past 40yrs were CAUSED BY THE VACCINE! What about SmallPox, we don't hear about that anymore either... do you believe it's because of the vaccine too? lol

* Nowdays we have so many "environmentalists" and it makes you wonder if knowledge is really such a good thing?
~Hunny, knowledge is always a good think if it's correct. If you want to follow the rest of the sheeple into the slaughter house, go for it...I wont stop you!

*did we have autism? breathing problems? anything weird?
~Well I don't know. Why don't you do a survey of the people in your area and see how many people are on any medications for any illnesses and get back to me. Are you saying that no one in your area has Cancer, lung diseases, asthma? Can you prove it, because if that is indeed true, I'd like to move there! Everywhere else, we have an increasing rate of respiratory illnesses and Cancer.

*Think of the farmers who lived to be in their nineties who ate 4 eggs for breakfast and bacon everyday.
Key word: FARMERS! Back in the day, we all ate ORGANICALLY. We got our food from Farmers and were free from Pesticides/Herbicides/Growth Hormones. That kinda goes without saying. Common sense! Do you have any contact info to a farmer back in the day, I'd really like to interview him!

*You can research your ass off and still it is your decision whether to put your child at risk by having or not having the vaccines.
~Finally, something I agree with. After researching, if you think that vaccines are safe and effective and worth the risk...by all means! But so far, from what I've seen posted here, people are NOT making informed decisions. They are saying things that are not true, and things that contradict themselves.

* I still believe not having children vaccinated (unless there is an existing physical or mental problem with said child) keeps the old diseases at bay.
Ok, can you tell us how you could ever possibly know if your ONE DAY OLD has an existing neurological problem or physically unable to handle these shots?
Only then are you able to sit there and say that... because you are not making an informed decision if you vaccinate your newborn.

You are right everyone has opinions, and my opinion is don't make decisions based on fear and scare tactics. Know what you are talking about before sharing your "opinion". Again, that is my opinion!

Katherine - posted on 07/14/2010

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"Official data shows that large scale vaccination has failed to obtain any significant improvement of the diseases against which they were supposed to provide protection" - Dr. Sabin, vaccine developer.

Katherine - posted on 07/14/2010

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In 1990, the Journal of the American Medical Association had an article on measles which stated " Although more than 95% of school-aged children in the US are vaccinated against measles, large measles outbreaks continue to occur in schools and most cases in this setting occur among previously vaccinated children." (JAMA, 21/11/90)

In the New England Journal of Medicine July 1994 issue a study found that over 80% of children under 5 years of age who had contracted whooping cough had been fully vaccinated.

In 1990, a UK survey involving 598 doctors revealed that over 50% of them refused to have the Hepatitis B vaccine despite belonging to the high risk group urged to be vaccinated. (British Med Jnl, 27/1/1990)

In Oman between 1988 and 1989, a polio outbreak occurred amongst thousands of fully vaccinated children. The region with the highest attack rate had the highest vaccine coverage. The region with the lowest attack rate had the lowest vaccine coverage. (The Lancet, 21/9/91)

In the USA, the cost of a single DPT shot had risen from 11 cents in 1982 to $11.40 in 1987. The manufacturers of the vaccine were putting aside $8 per shot to cover legal costs and damages they were paying out to parents of brain damaged children and children who died after vaccination. (The Vine, Issue 7, January 1994, Nambour, Qld)

In the USA, from July 1990 to November 1993, the US Food and Drug Administration counted a total of 54,072 adverse reactions following vaccination. The FDA admitted that this number represented only 10% of the real total, because most doctors were refusing to report vaccine injuries. In other words, adverse reactions for this period exceeded half a million! (National Vaccine Information Centre, March 2, 1994)

In 1979, Sweden abandoned the whooping cough vaccine due to its ineffectiveness. Out of 5,140 cases in 1978, it was found that 84% had been vaccinated three times! (BMJ 283:696-697, 1981)

In 1977, Dr Jonas Salk who developed the first polio vaccine, testified along with other scientists, that mass inoculation against polio was the cause of most polio cases throughout the USA since 1961. (Science 4/4/77 "Abstracts" )

In the 1970's a tuberculosis vaccine trial in India involving 260,000 people revealed that more cases of TB occurred in the vaccinated than the unvaccinated. (The Lancet 12/1/80 p73)

In the UK between 1970 and 1990, over 200,000 cases of whooping cough occurred in fully vaccinated children. (Community Disease Surveillance Centre, UK)

In 1967, Ghana was declared measles free by the World Health Organisation after 96% of its population was vaccinated. In 1972, Ghana experienced one of its worst measles outbreaks with its highest ever mortality rate. (Dr H Albonico, MMR Vaccine Campaign in Switzerland, March 1990)

In the USA in 1960, two virologists discovered that both polio vaccines were contaminated with the SV 40 virus which causes cancer in animals as well as changes in human cell tissue cultures. Millions of children had been injected with these vaccines. (Med Jnl of Australia 17/3/1973 p555)

In 1871-2, England, with 98% of the population aged between 2 and 50 vaccinated against smallpox, it experienced its worst ever smallpox outbreak with 45,000 deaths. During the same period in Germany, with a vaccination rate of 96%, there were over 125,000 deaths from smallpox. (The Hadwen Documents)

CANDACE - posted on 07/14/2010

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same goes for my 6 yr old grandson.sickness and asthma are not fun. but people whose kids are healthy dont see to understand the danger of it when their kids dont get the vaccines and come around our kids who have.they can still get them,but not as bad.

Deborah - posted on 07/14/2010

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Melissa I would do your research on Chickenpox... once you have had it you are in fact not immune, you are less likely to catch it again.

I have a friend who's son he is 9 now and has had chickenpox 3 times now, each time getting worse.

Also vaccines do not prevent the disease they only make the effects not as severe. I get the flu vaccine every year because I'm asthmatic and the flu can kill me... I could still get the flu, and it could still kill me... but my chances are slimmer

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