VACCINE DEBATE!!!

Shezz - posted on 03/18/2010

I recieved the rubella injection at school, since then my muscles have been sluggish, and ive been overtired, poor concentration etc. I also have shooting pains in the right side of my face on different days... based on this, and the ex's side of the familíes views on vaccination etc, we decided not to vaccinate. We have it on video where we said no and the doctors vaccinated her anyway- this is a criminal offence, and the appropriate person has been charged. Also to the woman who said people who do not vaccinate a) do not research and b) are putting your child at harm -this is supposed to be civil thread! I have read over 6 books cover to cover, read various medical journal entries regarding the topic and am studying immunology as a result of my experience with this. I do not believe one vaccine is right for everyone, I also believe weight should reflect the amount of vaccine you do get. I know in Australia, the advertising was for a anit cancer vaccine aimed towards women up to 26 years of age as being paid for free under the medicare system. Its not anti cancer- its aim is to prevent the Human Papiloma Virus. When my dr insisted i get this jab, I asked for a test to see if I already had HPV, the dr refused, stating ''do you know how much time effort and money we would waste if we screened everyone before giving them the needle?'' We are not lab rats, and I will not have someone else who can not be bothered to do their job correctly administer things into my body. Also want to note that the govt did not fund this, they reached an agreement with the Australian Government to administer the shot for free for up to two years.
All I am saying, is aren't I entitled to seek a test for HPV before being jabbed for immunity against this diseease? For those who don't know it is believed there is a link between HPV and pre cancerous cells. To me, it is common sense.
Also when discussing immunisation with my family doctor, I did ask for the doctor to specify to me which vaccines she was administring, she couldn't tell me what each one of them was for, only that my daughter required to needles which in effect had 9 vaccines in thm... and she wanted to vaccinate my 8 week old against dioehrea- however u spell it and vomiting- when I questioned this, she told me that if my daughter ever got gastro she would die. Not she would need hospitilasation...she would DIE. Now to me, the vomiting etc is a result of your body doing its best to get a bug out of your system, I don't know how great it would be to try to suppress that system?
I was vaccinated as a child. I am concerned VERY concerned about the welfare of my child, I do not take this lightly at all. This has been the most stressful topic. What if I vaccinate and my child has the virus that can cause autism if you vaccinate at the same time? What if she ends up with facial nerves like mine and tired and painful muscles? What if I don't vaccinate and she gets meningicocal howeve ru spell it and she gets brain damage? What if I vaccinate and she gets swelling of the brain and is injured that way???
I also worked in medical industry and it was mandatory to be vaccinated against the flu, well everyone in that office, apart from three of us who did not vaccinate, where sick, I mean really sick. Instead of taking these stats on board- we were all told, that the flu must have been present beforehand. Instead of looking at what other people say, I prefer to trust what I see.
For those who state unvaccinated kids cause your children harm- vaccines are there to protect your children from those said viruses arent they? If you doubt your childs susceptability to a virus- why blame children who are unvaccinated rahter then the vaccine not performing? I gaurantee you, vaccinated children have far more oppy and far more money for parents and kickbacks medically then unvaccinated, so by eluding that unvaccinated children are raised by lazy hicks (lol) please understand it would be far easier if it were our intention to be lazy- to vaccinate when drs tell us, to collect our 300 payment from the govt as opposed to filling out medical forms, and entering this debate with every medical worker, childcare provider, internet chat site, and other parents. It would be far easier for us to do as we are told, and something we could possibly gain great benefit from. I asked the doctor if she would write me a guanrantee that nothing bad would happen to my child if I vaccinated her, like the dr wanted, she would not do that, based on statistics of injury that she was privvy to.
I have asked people from both sides of the debate to help me understand better, and educate me better in terms of correct information, for both vaccinating etc, but to date, I have been given one govt hand out, three times by three different doctors. In each case, I was not allowed to take the booklet home to read at my own leisure.
I'm sorry for the long post. I am not out to offend anyone, just state that people who do not vaccinate should not be labelled as lazy etc as it is quite the opposite! It is just as scarey for us aswell. And a choice of playing roulette with vaccines or with life.

User - posted on 03/17/2010

My son had a reaction to his MMR vaccine and became disabled. Not Austism but physically an challenged mentally challenged. He saw a Geneticist and was tested for every possible genetic disorder. It all came back to the vaccine. He died when he was 6 1/2. Child #2 was close in age so received her vaccines as scheduled. By the time child #3 was born I had done years of research. She did get all of her vaccines but I spread them out. In fact I had her MMR vaccines split into three different shots also. What's ironic is people would comment and say they couldn't believe I would make her suffer through extra shots by splitting them up and I say that I would rather her feel a pinch from a vaccine needle as opposed to her becoming disabled and possibly dying. Like I would ever want to go through what I went through with my son again. As for the Autism and vaccine connection I feel like there is something that stays dormant in most people and the vaccine triggers the reaction. It's almost like the study of women who get MS after being pregnant. They say the pregnancy hormones can trigger the MS gene in some people. Since there are so many unknowns I think parents need to be informed and know that they can be a safer way to have kids vaccinated. Giving 3 - 4 vaccines to an infant at one time may not be the best possible way to do it.

Iridescent - posted on 03/16/2010

Lol! I think my views are pretty clear.

1 - I have one child with definite autism, one with probable autism. They had symptoms well before ANY vaccines, even at birth. For my children, they had no effect. There is proof they can cause autism in a child with a mitochondrial disease, PLUS a viral infection at the same time as the vaccines (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirb...). As myself and at least one of my children have a mitochondrial disease, we have to be especially certain they are not ill when getting vaccinated.

2 - yes, I vaccinate all my children. One is on a delayed schedule with only one shot at a time, due to her mitochondrial disease. The rest are on typical schedules.

3 - Yes I was and I continue to get vaccines. The only exception to this was the H1N1 as I had no access to it, then learned more and was not comfortable with it, then found out the virus mutated and it wasn't nearly as effective as it was touted to be. We do vaccines we know work, not theoretical based vaccines. Why vaccinate yourself for a disease the CDC "thinks" might exist next year? Influenza vaccines have a bit more value, as it's for 3 types and usually 2 work.

4 - My daughter with delayed vaccines is due to her health. Because of her and other children like her, I'm actually all for a mandatory vaccine program for otherwise healthy children, because social immunity is no longer effective thanks to parents that think vaccines = evil and doing no real research. So they put my child at risk.

Katherine - posted on 03/16/2010

Diane: You should not be afraid to say anything. Kate doesn't bite ;)



On another note, if you're going to state something PLEASE back it up!!!! In a debate it is opinion backed up with some degree of fact. Don't just say, "Vaccines do not cause autism." I have worked with many autistic children, MANY. In fact I have done research through my university. Statistically, in my research, vaccinations could be one of the triggers of autism.

Wendy - posted on 03/16/2010

I am a nurse and I had the same fears as any parent about what was best for my kids. I have been to many CDC immunization conferences and those guys really do work hard to be sure what is put out there is safe and effective to prevent disease. There is NO scientific evidence that links vaccines to Autism - NONE. I know that there are those who will swear it is so, but there is no science to back it up. I was immunized as a child and after talking to my Pediatrician, decided to vaccinate my own kids. I figured when he quit vaccinating HIS kids, that's when I would too! I have also studied the diseases we are talking about preventing. They are horrible diseases! Most people think they don't exist in the USA anymore, but some are starting to make a comeback due to the fears about vaccination. Take for instance tetnus. Tetnus lives naturally as spores in soil. So when you garden and get stuck with a thorn, or step on a nail, or have some kind of puncture wound, it may let those spores into your body. If your immune system is overwhelmed by the spores, you get tetnus which will make the muscles of your body contract (that's why you get a sore arm) - sometimes so fiercely that it breaks bones. Now, which is worse? The pain of a shot or that? These diseases are not fictional. I would think long and hard about not vaccinating my child against anything I could prevent by a simple injection. What would you say to your child when they ask why you didn't and they got the disease? And again, when my Pediatrician no longer vaccinates HIS kids, then I will think again. Hope this helps.

User - posted on 07/11/2011

starting my reply with a "sigh" as well.. I chose to do my "duty" as a Mom to vaccinate both of my children.. my first one turned out fine (she's 8) why should I have problems with the 2nd? (He's 4) It seemed like it the short span between the two kids (4 years for those counting), they started adding more vaccines.. giving more at a time.. my son was born healthy (to our knowledge), was bright eyed, followed us whereever we went with his eyes.. just as happy as can be.. when he got that MMR vaccine, (along with several others at once at the doctor's insistance), something changed.. he no longer had the same attitude.. seemed sick alot, stopped following us with his eyes.. I could see almost an immediate difference in him. He is 4 and talked like he's 2, and is autistic. The doctor's of course say that it couldn't be the reason.. coincidence.. I am willing to say that there's possibility in that.. that this could be genetic.. (although we can't trace it anywhere down both family lines).. but as his Mommy I know what I saw.. I saw him change.. he's a beautiful baby.. we still call him our baby because he's still so very "young" and will most likely need our care forever. I wish that I would have spread out the vaccines.. it was "lazy" on my part not to do more research and to just TRUST the medical community (the ones getting paid by the pharmaceutical companies).

Kat - posted on 03/20/2010

Sigh , my son is 7 months old ans vacinated . I didn't want to vac my husband did . We are spreading out the shots over a 5 year period . He received all his shots on schedule up to 6 months when he got his flu shot . I honestly don't have an opinion on what is "right" on this subject. I believe its all about comfortablity as a parent . Because in the end it is our choices that effect our children forever . I can tell you the debate between my husband and myself was this , I didn't what to vac. Because I felt as a breast feeding mother that my sons immune system was getting what he needed from me and that untill he was going to be brought into public where he would be exposed to illnesses I didn't want to worry about vacs and the possible side effects . My husband believes it is our duty as members of a society to protect others from communicable illnesses , and that exposing our child who would has been un vaccinated to new borns or children who could not receive vacs was unethical . Obviously we disagreed on the subject . At the end of the day the compromise the space out the vacs was made with help of research , our sons doctor , and what we felt we could both live with . As I stated in the begining this is a personal choice made by parents for their child . Not somthing anyone else should judge .

Megan - posted on 03/19/2010

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/laws...

In short unless you live in West Virginia or Mississippi a school can not opt out on you. Private schools that are open to public enrollment, meaning anyone can apply, abide by the same laws. Religious freedom is a pretty big part of our constitutional rights, and the right not to vaccinate is almost always ensured. The policies of many schools read as if it is not a choice, but waivers are available in all but the two afore mentioned states, and in most states this applies to private schools and daycares that do not serve a specific population (it would be pretty hard to claim religious exemption when applying to a catholic school that only admits church members). If anyone is free to apply chances are anyone can also get a vaccine waiver. I am still looking for information on in home providers.

Just because you are not told there is an option to opt out doesn't mean it does not exist. It seems as if many of you think there are no unvaccinated children allowed into your child's school or daycare, But just because you complied with the stated requirements does not mean others parents did not ask for and receive waivers. From my research it seems that in a large majority of cases opting out is an option, and not just in public schools.

Kate CP - posted on 03/19/2010

Angel: The H1N1 vaccine is just another version of the yearly flu vaccine. It kills as many people as the regular seasonal flu vaccine does.

Angel - posted on 03/19/2010

I did get my daughter vaccinated but as far as getting the H1N1 vaccine No way my daughter is not gonna be a guine pig for the government. I have heard that getting the vaccine is almost as bad as the flu itself and is killing people.

[deleted account]

I have three boys, all are vaccinated, all healthy. I'm vaccinated, my three siblings are, all my cousins and all their kids are, and nobody is ill. I say go for it, besides, most schools require it and if you do opt out they can opt out on you.

Kate CP - posted on 03/19/2010

Sherrie, it sounds like you need better doctors. Any doctor that doesn't know what a specific vaccine is for is an idiot.

Becky - posted on 03/18/2010

I don't believe that vaccines cause autism, but I do believe it's possible that they accelerate the onset of symptoms in children who were going to get it anyways.
I do vaccinate my children, although somewhat selectively. We do all the routine vaccinations, but I do not do influenza or H1N1. Also, where I live, they do not routinely give Hep B to infants, unless they are high risk, and do not give the rotavirus, so my boys haven't had either of those. As far as Gardasil, I don't have a daughter yet, but I'm iffy on that one. I've heard of some pretty serious side effects. But, it's still pretty new, so if I do have a daughter, maybe by the time she's the age to get it, the kinks will be worked out.
I am fully vaccinated and then some, because I grew up overseas, in a third world country. I've had just about every vaccination there is, and I have an immune system of steel, lol! I keep my vaccinations up to date, mainly because I like to travel and feel safer that way. Having grown up in a very impoverished country where there was not ready access to vaccines and a lot of children died of very preventable diseases is part of the reason I choose to vaccinate my kids.

Erin - posted on 03/18/2010

You do know there is a difference between being vaccinated and being immunised? I would think that they are self explanatory. Being vaccinated means you are still able to get the disease, but will have less severe symptoms. For example whooping cough or chicken pox. Being immunised is when your body's immune system is able to identify the disease and you don't get the disease. An example is tetanus or hepatitis B. I only get the ones that are compulsory. I was quite glad when both my children caught chicken pox before they were vaccinated. In the guidelines in Australia, parents are told not to get their child's immunisation/vaccination done if they have a fever, have recently been unwell or are not their usual healthy state. You would also be surprised at the crap is actually in vaccines from mercury to egg whites. You can also choose to have them given individually, but it is not government funded. I also know that in Australia if you choose not to vaccinate/immunise you have to sign declaration forms and that in the event of any illness at your childcare or school, your child is not allowed to attend until it is declared safe for him/her to return. I don't think anyone can tell you what to do in regards to your child, as long as you are informed and understand the consequences of choosing to do it or not. I do think that more long term research on autism needs to be done because it is becoming more and more common.

Emma - posted on 03/18/2010

I say vaccinate. my son is vaccinated. some of the diseases that are cover by vaccines are deadly. The chance of side affects a slim.
The chance of crossing the road and getting hit by a car are slim but we still cross the road!

Megan - posted on 03/18/2010

So many things to say. First off there is some interesting information on the HPV vaccines on that sight. I am glad that I have a number of years before I have to decide (or decline to decide as the case may be). I hope that during that time more research and safety information will be available. In terms of the aggressive marketing, I have always been troubled by the commercialization of any medical practice, in my opinion medical information should come from medical professionals not media campaigns. Off topic I know but can I just say how much i hate the marketing of prescription medications, antidepressants in particular. I also think the sight raises important questions about what kinds of diseases warrant the potential risk of a new vaccine. Meningitis, Polio, diphtheria etc, are very serious diseases. Chicken pox, Rhoda Virus etc, while not without complications do not usually cause serious problems as long as there is access to medical care and clean water. As stated Cervical Cancers can usually be effectively eradicated if detected early.

That being stated, I got that information off of drtenpenny.com but none of that is written by Dr. Tenpenny, I have serious questions about her judgement. I respect her right to her opinion, but I prefer to take medical advise from a physician who sees it as his/her job to prevent illness and death, not someone who views them as spiritual lessons. The following quote was particularly problematic for me.

"Medicine and healthcare have become emotionally sterile. We have separated the soma from the soul, removing the spiritual lessons that can come from experiencing illness and knowing death. We cling to life using all methods and endless expense." Dr Tenpenny

Brianne - posted on 03/18/2010

Yes, I vaccinate my daughter but she isn't too the point where she needs the MMR vaccine (which is the vaccine most talked about being linked to autism). I'm not sure what to believe. However, my husband and I are both vaccinated and we are fine. I absolutely think you need to get your children vaccinated, that is how we keep every one healthy and safe. And if I remember correctly, the link between the MMR vaccine and autism (even though now it is being said is not proven) was b/c the 3 vaccines were combined. I believe you have the option to ask your doctor for separate vaccines, but I'm not positive if it's actually available.

This is definitely a very debatable topic!

Kate CP - posted on 03/18/2010

drtenpenny.com is notoriously anti-vax.

Faye - posted on 03/18/2010

check out the expert has to say drtenpenny.com

Megan - posted on 03/18/2010

Will you choose to give your daughter or son the Guardasil vaccine for HPV? I am undecided, but my inclination is to wait and let my children choose for themselves when they get older, but I think I will encourage both of them to get vaccinated. I think this particular vaccine brings up many interesting questions about the role parents can/should play in making decisions about their child's future sexual health.

Katherine - posted on 03/18/2010

LOL Tracey!!!

Sneaky - posted on 03/18/2010

I am so sick of this debate :o) I know I have posted before on this subject so I will just reiterate my position without explanations:

If you and/or your child is not vaccinated STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM ME AND MY FAMILY. Thank you :o)

Kerri - posted on 03/18/2010

I love America because as of now we still have freedom of choice and can vaccinate or not. Everyone has a right to do what they want and shouldn't be judged on what they decide. If your child is vaccinated why are you so concerned abut the ones that haven't been. if your child is vaccinated ant they considered to be "safe"? wow just chill out a little and enjoy life it goes fast.

Katherine - posted on 03/17/2010

Very interesting indeed Michelle.

Amy - posted on 03/17/2010

There is no research that proves that vaccines cause autism. I got my daughter vaccinated. I want the absolute best for my daughter and wouldn't want her to develop autism but I feel that the benefits of vaccinating her against possible deadly illnesses outway the risks of vaccinating. Especially knowing that these illnesses for the most part can be prevention. I do believe though that doctors should be educating parents on vaccines and why they recommend them.

Carrie - posted on 03/17/2010

I have been vaccinated (although I think I am behind with my tetanus and booster) and my sons have been vaccinated. I choose to do this to protect my son. We live in a large city where lots of people travel. Just because I am immune to something I am vaccinated against doesn't mean that I am not a carrier of that disease. When people choose not to vaccinate simply out of fear (because I know that there ARE legitimate reasons not to vaccinate some kids, or to vaccinate against only certain diseases) they are exposing their children to so many potentially dangerous things. Plus, when you come into contact with a small infant who hasn't been vaccinated yet, you might be passing that disease onto a baby.

There have been cases of measles and mumps breaking out in areas because people haven't been vaccinating their children. Why would we do this to our kids? From what I understand, those illnesses are painful (and potentially deadly).

Misty - posted on 03/17/2010

I dont believe that vaccines cause autism but if u look up what vaccine ur child is getting it should explain everything and I vaccinate my son and nothing has happened to him that is bad. He is hardly sick but that could b his immune system that is strong. My son is vaccinated at Capital Health on the northside and they r very nice ppl and good with my son. The way I see it, if u want to give ur children vaccinated then thats ur choice but other ppl that disapproves should not argue about this. It up to the parents if they want to vaccinate there children or not.

Wendy - posted on 03/17/2010

My grandson got pertussis (whooping cough) at daycare because someone didn't want to vaccinate their kids. He had only had one dose of vaccine so he was not fully protected (and then there's the few percent that the vaccine doesn't work). My daughter was livid. It was soooo hard to watch this little guy cough and cough and try to catch his breath, then vomit and cough some more. NO parent doesn't want the best for their kids, which is why we are having this discussion. We learn all we can, then make our decisions. We just need to remember that a decision NOT to vaccinate may put not only our own kids at risk of catching the disease, but others as well.

Michelle - posted on 03/17/2010

This is interesting...

U.S. court rules against vaccine-autism claims

Fri, Mar 12, 2010 (Reuters Life!) -- Vaccines that contain a mercury-based preservative called thimerosal cannot cause autism on their own, a special U.S. court ruled on Friday, dealing one more blow to parents seeking to blame vaccines for their children's illness.

The special U.S. Court of Federal Claims ruled that vaccines could not have caused the autism of an Oregon boy, William Mead, ending his family's quest for reimbursement.

"The Meads believe that thimerosal-containing vaccines caused William's regressive autism. As explained below, the undersigned finds that the Meads have not presented a scientifically sound theory," Special Master George Hastings, a former tax claims expert at the Department of Justice, wrote in his ruling.

The Meads had filed a civil lawsuit in Oregon state court against a number of pharmaceutical companies alleging that the thimerosal additive in many pediatric vaccines significantly contributed to the development of William's autism, Hastings wrote.

While the state court determined the autism was vaccine-related, Hastings said overwhelming medical evidence showed otherwise. The theory presented by the Meads and experts who testified on their behalf "was biologically implausible and scientifically unsupported", Hasting wrote.

In February 2009, the court ruled against three families who claimed vaccines caused their children's autism, saying they had been "misled by physicians who are guilty, in my view, of gross medical misjudgment".

The families sought payment under the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, a no-fault system that has a $2.5 billion fund built up from a 75-cent-per-dose tax on vaccines.

Instead of judges, three "special masters" heard the three test cases representing thousands of other petitioners.

They asked whether a combination vaccine for measles, mumps and rubella, or MMR, plus a mercury-containing preservative called thimerosal, caused the children's symptoms.

MYSTERIOUS CONDITION

More than 5,300 cases were filed by parents who believed vaccines may have caused autism in their children. The no-fault payout system is meant to protect vaccine makers from costly lawsuits that drove many out of the vaccine-making business.

Autism is a mysterious condition that affects as many as one in 110 U.S. children. The so-called spectrum ranges from mild Asperger's Syndrome to severe mental retardation and social disability, and there is no cure or good treatment.

The U.S. Institute of Medicine has reported several times that no link can be found between vaccines and autism.

In a separate matter, the U.S. Supreme Court said earlier this month it would decide whether a federal law protects vaccine manufacturers from lawsuits in state court seeking damages for alleged design defects.

The high court agreed to hear a Pennsylvania case involving a lawsuit by the parents of a child who suffered seizures after her third dose of a diphtheria-tetanus-pertussis vaccine. They sued the vaccine manufacturer, Wyeth, which Pfizer Inc purchased last year.

Mary - posted on 03/17/2010

I am a mother that has adult children, and they were all vaccinated. They are all wonderful, fully heallthy adults. I am now 67 years old. When I was a child, there were very few vaccines, so I had the mumps, measles, chickenpox, whooping cough. I am totally deaf in one ear (doctors say probaby from the mumps or the whooping cough) because my hearing was lost as a child. In addition, whooping cough is not a pretty sight. It is a horrible disease. Mumps are painful, but not like whooping cough. Measles have weakened my eyes. I remember having to stay in a dark room the entire time I had the measles, and my parents did all that they could do to protect me. I also had friends that had polio. One friend is still alive today with rods in her back, etc. Vaccines are not bad. All of my grandchildren have been vaccinated against the big guys....polio, measles, whooping cough, etc...but they were not vaccinated agains H1N1..unfortunately, they caught it before the vaccine was available in our area of West Virginia. I could not put my children at risk .... I advocate vaccinations.

Sheridan - posted on 03/17/2010

i do not believe that vaccines cause autism. I vaccinate my son and will continue to vaccinate him. I am pretty sure that vaccinations are required before your children start school. My son gets his vaccinations at the local doctor.

Andrea - posted on 03/16/2010

Very redundant. The NIH research is based on the vaccine and autism. Your link is based on fever and mitochondrial disease together causing autistic regression...2 very different research topics. I can't say it any other way. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Hazel - posted on 03/16/2010

nope...it doesn't cause autism...yes, i had my son vaccinated up to 4th booster...yes, i completed vaccination...vaccine is important and will help kids have immunity with certain types of diseases...Go For It ;)

Iridescent - posted on 03/16/2010

This has become quite redundant. The date on your NIH link is 8/6/08. The date on the most recent research proving the link between autism and vaccines (via fever) is 3/11/10. Your link says specifically, "To date". There is much more recent information and research.

Andrea - posted on 03/16/2010

I guess you hadn't read my sites as I posted 2. Your CDC link didn't say anything about linking vaccines to autism which I had already stated.

This is from the CDC site: Many studies that have looked at whether there is a relationship between vaccines and autism spectrum disorders (ASDs). To date, the studies continue to show that vaccines are not associated with ASDs.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/topics....



This is from the NIH: Is there a link between autism and vaccines?



To date, there is no conclusive scientific evidence that any part of a vaccine or any combination of vaccines causes autism, even though researchers have carried out many studies to answer this important question. There is also no proof that any material used to make or preserve vaccines plays a role in causing autism.



Although there have been reports of studies that relate vaccines to autism, the findings have not held up under further investigation. Researchers have been unable to replicate the studies that reportedly found a link between autism and vaccines.

http://www.nichd.nih.gov/publications/pu...

Iridescent - posted on 03/16/2010

I thought your point was saying that autism is never caused by vaccines. I'm sorry, but I only saw one proof you listed and it was from the same source as mine (CDC), which concedes that it is in a minority of cases. I am glad you read the sources I posted though, and hopefully learned a lot from them as it is new research and an important aspect of all our children's lives. The only reason I quoted you was because you appeared to still disagree with my statement, that sometimes vaccines do cause autism, despite my having proven that quite effectively to your satisfaction one step at a time.

What I find really funny is that this makes me appear to be anti-vaccinating, when in fact I'm not! :)

Andrea - posted on 03/16/2010

I know what I said so I don't understand why you're repeating it. I have thought about what I have read and said and I stand by it. You even agreed that infection and teething can cause autism with your answer of "Yes, it does".

Anything in life is plausible until proven otherwise. I made my point as well and I'm happy with that.

Katherine - posted on 03/16/2010

Everyone has a right to their opinion. You don't have the right to personally attack. This is not directed at anyone: just a friendly warning.

[deleted account]

I'm not worried about un-vaccinated children because my child is vaccinated. I feel really sorry for those parents whos children are exempted from vaccinations for health reasons. They are at risk of contracting an illness from the incresing number of children who are un-vaccinated because of parental choice. They are also the children who are most likely to get serious complications because of their existing health conditions.

Iridescent - posted on 03/16/2010

I agree. A lot of parents don't link the fever to the autism. Who would? It's not something you think of. We did because my son had a fever of 105.7, with medications to control it. There was nothing we could do. And instead of being snide, maybe think about what you've read and what you're saying. A fever of over 101 is not a side effect of teething, and that is the point of concern for autism. It is a sign of infection instead. And that is proven to also cause autism.

This is your post
"The fever is the trigger...even children without the vaccine who had a fever have autism and mitochondrial disease."
And you go on to say this
"A fever can be caused by an infection and teething too. Does that mean infections and teething can cause autism too?"
And this
"I better get the word out that teething and infection can cause autism...I've honestly never heard that before. "

Just because you've never heard of it, doesn't mean it's not plausible or even likely. That's the purpose of research. I honestly feel I've more than made my point.

Katherine - posted on 03/16/2010

Thermerisol

Andrea - posted on 03/16/2010

I better get the word out that teething and infection can cause autism...I've honestly never heard that before.

A fever is a common side effect, however, soreness and redness are more common. I couldn't find stats, but I googled "most common side effect of vaccine" and I work in a health facility where the most reported side effect was soreness at the injection site. A lot of parents aren't saying the fever from the vaccine is causing autism, they are saying the ingredients are linked to it.

Iridescent - posted on 03/16/2010

Yes, it does. Many things are proven to cause autism. And most autism is ideopathic, meaning nobody knows why it developed. But that isn't the point here. Are you saying fever is not a very common side effect of vaccines? Because it is.

This is from information on the MMR specifically. The MMR is the vaccine most parents that link their autistic child's autism with, when they link it to autism at all.
"Fever is the most common side effect, occurring in 5%-15% of vaccine recipients"
http://www.vaccineinformation.org/measle...

Andrea - posted on 03/16/2010

Thank you, Wendy! That's what I read from the CDC too.

Andrea - posted on 03/16/2010

Actually the most common side effects of a vaccine are soreness and redness at the injection site. A fever can be caused by an infection and teething too. Does that mean infections and teething can cause autism too?

Iridescent - posted on 03/16/2010

Yes. And isn't one of the most common side effects of every vaccine a fever?

Andrea - posted on 03/16/2010

The fever is the trigger...even children without the vaccine who had a fever have autism and mitochondrial disease.

Iridescent - posted on 03/16/2010

That may be your point, and if your satisfied with that as the entire answer, that's fine. The fact is proven that the vaccine alone does cause autism in children with mitochondrial diseases, and often these diseases are missed until they find autism. So the vaccine is the trigger. Your argument is the same as saying guns don't cause death, bullets do, so have guns all over.

Andrea - posted on 03/16/2010

They are not saying the vaccine alone causes autism which is my point.

Iridescent - posted on 03/16/2010

Andrea, that's exactly what I said.

From my first post on this thread -

"1 - I have one child with definite autism, one with probable autism. They had symptoms well before ANY vaccines, even at birth. For my children, they had no effect. There is proof they can cause autism in a child with a mitochondrial disease, PLUS a viral infection at the same time as the vaccines"



And the Autism Speaks link shows that a fever with mitochondrial disease causes autism. This means if you catch any illness with a fever, it may cause autism. If the source of that fever is a vaccine, the VACCINE CAUSED the autism. Proven.

Andrea - posted on 03/16/2010

I've read your link from the CDC and it suggests that mitochondrial disease may be triggered by something related to vaccines (ie. illnesses), but more research is needed. It doesn't say anything about autism except to say that children with autism are not routinely tested for mitochondrial diseases.



Re: Autism Speaks link: I don't know about mitochondrial disease, but to me this research is saying that a combination of a fever (with or without a vaccine) AND mitochondrial disease could be a risk factor for autism. That's very different from a vaccine alone causing autism.

Iridescent - posted on 03/16/2010

Thank you, Katherine. I've had to. We were concerned about this subject when my first son was diagnosed as moderately/severely autistic and we wanted to know if this was why. He has the regressive form, which showed up with his 18 month vaccines, but he also had symptoms prior. When our daughter was born with a mitochondrial disease, we really had a crash course. Our doctors are metabolic neurologists that do the research (and we are part of the research) on this subject and a few others, and they give me the most up to date information available on this and a couple other issues directly related to her care. It's helped a lot with making informed decisions.

Katherine - posted on 03/16/2010

Amy: It seems you have done a ton of research and are very knowledgeable on this topic. How refreshing.

Iridescent - posted on 03/16/2010

http://blog.autismspeaks.org/2010/03/11/...

This is new research on this exact issue. The graph is amazing on it! It may answer a lot of your questions on the issue as well. Basically, 4 children out of 28 that were healthy prior to vaccines, with a viral infection causing a fever, with an undiagnosed mitochondrial disease, upon receiving vaccines, develop autism. And 8 children out of 28 with a mitochondrial disease undiagnosed, that were otherwise healthy, that caught a viral infection and developed a fever and were not vaccinated, developed autism. It shows that the infectious process itself is what sets off the autism in these kids, which is caused by a vaccine.

Iridescent - posted on 03/16/2010

Oh, and the question of the link between autism and vaccines in relation to mitochondrial diseases is NOT regarding anything of the preservatives in the vaccines. It is the exposure to the vaccine itself; the infectious portion, the virus or bacteria, even if it is inactivated. It's a completely different issue.